Hollie
Hi.
Paul
Hello, welcome back to the English and maths booth this week I am joined by the wonderful Paul Hi Paul.
Hollie
Hello, how are you good?
Paul
I'm good, thank you.
Paul
I'm thank you.
Paul
I'm.
Paul
Thank you, how are you?
Hollie
Yeah good yeah, the sun is out all good.
Paul
Good pulled, you just want to give a brief introduction about yourself. You experience what you up to at the moment, yeah?
Hollie
Hi honey, thanks for the invite. Good good, good to be here with you. I've not been in a fee for that long.
Hollie
Five years alongside teaching adults Community College in the evenings, but the philosophy and creative writing. But I've been teaching in Fe for yeah, five five years GCSE English and functional skills, yet functional skills English, yeah, that's Neva nutshell.
Paul
And then what do you prefer to teach preferred GCSE or functional skills?
Speaker 3
She had said.
Hollie
Louis looked destined. That's a good question.
Hollie
I mean, I really like both.
Hollie
Functional skills, as I suppose, is the one I've been teaching the longest because before I became a a GCSE English lecture, which I've been here for last three years.
Hollie
I was NHS TA, but I was also teaching as qualified teachers also teaching functional skills English to adults in the evenings, which I still do, and I really enjoy.
Hollie
Because she won't know that disclosing the tight let it be really is such a such a functional subject and very helpful in that sense to to anybody is coming on board for.
Hollie
For example, for a lot of my students who haven't done any English since they were at school or were having to improve their general competences because of of wanting to climb up career ladders and whatever you so so that I I really enjoy. And of course, that.
Hollie
Aspect of things.
Hollie
Is mirrored with with the younger students as well.
Hollie
In in a Fiat college not not so much there, although um.
Hollie
It's really lovely to have seen over the last three years of progression from functional skills to GCSE. That's been really nice when, when, for example, I've been teaching in tandem classes whereby I perhaps had a group of students that I was teaching the year before, and some of those students on teaching in the same year, and in fact the same week on teaching, GCSE, and to see how they've made that.
Hollie
Which progression?
Paul
Yeah.
Hollie
Since it's put on to your questions, give me up awful bit.
Hollie
I also love GCSE because of a lover of literature.
Hollie
And I also enjoy that kind of mechanics.
Hollie
Connect speaking as well. You know, I love language and structure and how that goes to make up almost anything.
Hollie
That's involved in communicating ultimately anything within the English language, so it's all there. Which is why I love the fact that you can weave in all of those cultural wares from addicted to film and and whatever you in theatre, all of that can be can be weaved in.
Hollie
And of course, necessarily so given that with with the demographics that we're we're dealing with, you know who who fare far better.
Hollie
Hollie
You know that Connexions to pop culture and what have you seen, so it's all there. So I guess. On balance I would have to say.
Paul
****
Hollie
Cheese GCSE I think GCSE English.
Paul
Yeah, I think.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 3
Paul
Yeah I think is is I spoke to, you know many colleagues and electric across time and I think of who do save the GCSE over over functional skills in terms of teaching. But I I'm a believer of like.
Paul
Being being involved in both, I like to visit as an educator to teach both levels because I feel like it helps me to bridge the gap and it helps me to understand, you know, the process of various students from where they started to move in from functional skills, sometimes into GCSE, but do seem much quicker process progress in functional skills than I do in GCSE sometimes.
Hollie
Yep, figured it doesn't. I'm not, I certainly see it move more evidence of that with with the adults that I died.
Hollie
Um?
Hollie
Where they they? Probably? I mean, I've had. I've had all sort of coming on, not so much now, but entry level two and three.
Hollie
Who Will Win over some more of the spiky profile?
Hollie
Set up the window going from summer, going from entry three to run up to level one and almost ready for level 2 in the same academic year, which like Wow that's bullying. You know they've been coming at a certain level within their first few months, and then they just.
Speaker 3
Is there?
Hollie
Smash their way through it and done really well said that only gets to you know May June of event that was the end of the academic year there ready or had been ready for.
Hollie
I know, I know, that the structure in the system is different now and with functional skills, but but days of old they were ready for level 2 for September and they came in the entry Level 3 at the beginning of the academic units like Wow. So yeah, I agree that that that the rate of progression in the.
Speaker 3
Because I think.
Hollie
Necessarily, I suppose, on a more practical level, it's more. It's easier to to measure with functional skills, limited wiki because it's far less nuanced, and it it's it's far less conceptual than than than GCSE.
Paul
Yeah.
Hollie
Although I think I still think that.
Hollie
Again, necessarily so there are those.
Hollie
Clear, measurable stakes with GCSE English that that tell us how our students are doing year on year, but of course much more involved.
Speaker 3
You
Paul
Yeah.
Hollie
Be more involved subject and which is which is like it again the the beauty of of the subject itself, because it's it's pulling in so much.
Hollie
Firm.
Hollie
Culture and we give you any, any, any given lesson has something to do, or at least I try and connect it to sudden something to do with.
Hollie
Set the.
Hollie
Hollie
Sociology, history, psychology because it meets those subjects at certain level. OK, not not on any sort of fundamental intrical level, but still it shadows some of those.
Hollie
Um subjects, which I think is important because it means that GCSE English has.
Hollie
It has elasticity so it can reach some of those areas of inquiry.
Paul
Absolutely.
Hollie
Shadow those subjects which I think is one of the reasons why a lot of English lectures enjoy the subject because they know that there's it's available subject to subject, wherein you can start introducing ultimately Hawley ideas.
Hollie
Which we just keep.
Paul
Yeah.
Paul
Yeah, absolutely and.
Paul
What why we worked?
Paul
Well, today isn't it. We've been talking a lot about some of the work that you've been doing in your classroom pool, which is is providing that that safe space to bring in different elements of discussion.
Paul
Whether it's about you know what's happening in the news, whether this backdrop, call chair, whether it's you know more serious matters, you've been bringing a lot of that into your classroom, which I think is really, really important. And it said discussion.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Paul
Had with multiple educators over the last three or four weeks at the important senjuti of our job to ensure we cover those things within the classroom.
Hollie
He
Paul
And I know you, you've opened up some space in your class router, almost bringing debates to certain certification layers of students that maybe don't necessarily look at that type of.
Paul
News, or maybe you know, not just vacation area, but there are certain pockets of maybe students who don't access the news or who don't access those certain types of literature out there.
Hollie
Absolutely not. I mean, I think maybe we spoke about this number of times. Holly, I know, but we're living in Times Now where the need for.
Hollie
Movements towards balanced inquiry and transparency and critical thinking has never been more apparent, and I see no reason why.
Hollie
That should not start in fact way early isn't an Fe, and I'm sure it does with with with.
Hollie
With not thinking of the critical, the source.
Hollie
Heavily laden, critical thinking holistically. Might finding something like religious studies, secondary school, or even even what used to be called social studies, along with the equivalent of that is is now.
Hollie
But I'm sure there isn't equivalent whereby you are introducing students again to ideas and ideas being lens through critical evaluative thinking, and I think and I think English again allows that.
Speaker 3
Who is she?
Hollie
Who?
Hollie
Because we are dealing with subject matter, especially in transactional writing. Overloaded in the subject matter.
Hollie
Whereby, for example, the student is being asked to give an opinion.
Hollie
So, so I think it's worth another time I try and weave it into the very DNA of of my, my my lesson planning every week try and prise open a window whereby there is an opportunity to introduce.
Hollie
A way of packing how we appeal.
Hollie
Tonight as humans.
Hollie
Yeah.
Hollie
Unlike in 5th, the the the earliest you can do that, the better it will work with students, and I found in my experience in my limited experience in here, I have found that not a single student yet, and I hope this never happens, but not a single student yet.
Hollie
As sex me, there's no benefit here for me with with with throwing over 10 or 15 minutes of our second to thinking openly and considerately about any of the extant cultural issues that were being faced with now, because, you know, I constantly say to my students. You know there is this Miss guided assumption.
Hollie
The when you were college.
Hollie
There's no need for you to have an opinion about what's going on in what they perceive to be the adult world.
Paul
Boo.
Hollie
So rubbish holy it will use and on the evidence of that is borne out of the feedback that I get from my students about race, gender and other capital punishment crime. Whatever it is, it's born out through what some of these students are in just enlightening me about.
Paul
Yeah.
Hollie
Hawley, because it's not about it's not about quantum qualitative or quantitative knowledge, it's about.
Speaker 3
And I think.
Hollie
What your opinion is what perspective you have about something and sometimes when it comes from the sixteen 1718 year old, you seem like you're, well, I didn't. I certainly didn't see it that way, you know.
Paul
Yeah man, I think we.
Paul
This comes up with giving the learners the ownership of their own learning first of all, but also I think it stems from the fact that they come to us from school and we want to make that jump into college.
Paul
You know what we're trying to explain to this is this is adulthood Now you know you're going to be treated like an adult to certain degree and part of being an adult.
Hollie
Absolutely yeah.
Paul
Or, you know, strong characteristic is is to be able to express your opinion confidently, but also is to be able to take on board.
Paul
Other people's opinions, and I think that's a massive part of what we do within the English classroom.
Paul
You miss opening the spaces. To say this is your opinion and your opinion is valid for you, and that's great, but this is also somebody else's opinion an almost somebody expected today.
Paul
Like you know we're setting it out later in jewellery and there they are. The ones making the decision at the end, how they feel about it.
Paul
We provide them with with the whole kind of subject matter and different opinions, and if we don't open them up to a different opinions, how can they learn? How can they grow? How can they develop on there?
Paul
Thought path and I think when we introduce these top.
Speaker 3
Yep.
Paul
Pics
Hollie
Boo.
Paul
We do go into a lot of detail because it helped when it helps to build contacts in the classroom, right?
Paul
But secondly, if we're talking about something that may be on the news, well, that's in the public eye. They've only maybe read a snapshot of what's been accessible to them.
Paul
They've maybe only seen the headline or their friends have gone. Ohh did you? Did you see that thing in the news the other day?
Hollie
So.
Speaker 3
Anyway.
Paul
That you know that woman.
Paul
Hide and they don't need past that, but not because there maybe not interested, but because they're not used to reading and accessing that opinion at a greater level.
Paul
So that's where we come in, isn't it? You know where where, giving them the information we're given them the literature with giving them the bigger picture and hoping that they can work with other people to grow their opinion. And also I think that.
Paul
Is power of employability skills? Isn't it? You know being able to be in in in space with people and take on board opinions you know and we talk about it a lot in the creative industry where we're trying to make those Connexions to industry.
Speaker 3
App please.
Paul
Because just because you've created a platform where you've created a game, let's say, does it mean that your boss is going to like that game and you have to be able to constructively Give your opinion? Or, on the flipside, constructively give criticism and that's what this this kind of hole.
Paul
Part is about, it's not just about looking at the language and about looking at. You know how it's been structured or just bringing the topic.
Paul
It's about the bigger picture that we're creating. The classroom, isn't it?
Hollie
Completely, and I think you I think you you send it up with the word there only we can. We spoke about ownership.
Hollie
Because I often.
Hollie
Tell my students often say look what we need to realise here, myself included, and that but more so for you and certainly a demographic, is that your opinion?
Hollie
Is going consistently count for more and more the older you get?
Hollie
So if there is a way, as is exploring how we opinion 8 and how we can best.
Hollie
Take on and consider the opinions of others like you pretty much said yourself. Surely that's all to the good.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Hollie
It would seem that if given the cultural milieu, but where we are currently living in.
Hollie
Having an ability to think carefully, considerately, and critically about what you are thinking and saying about what someone else is thinking and saying above and beyond the needs that that might serve for.
Speaker 3
I.
Hollie
A paper to Question 5. Whatever it is or whatever. Whatever areas, as apps commentary you're looking at within the paper above and beyond that.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Hollie
Various skills and requirements.
Hollie
Various skills and.
Hollie
But if you're lacking in them and may trip you up as you move forward, whether it, whether it be in education or whether it be.
Hollie
You know that the practicalities of dealing with with the opinions of others in the workplace, so I think it's it's absolutely.
Hollie
Absolutely vital, and again I can't stress enough how much that's borne out by.
Hollie
As president, he was on occasions.
Hollie
Come up with with extremely.
Hollie
Lucid, well considered and well managed things about.
Hollie
Old horses allsorts of issues.
Speaker 3
Hollie
Did you get the impression sometimes there there is a reluctance and and quite rightly I mean. Obviously as teachers we.
Speaker 3
But
Hollie
Well, first and foremost, belonging responsibility to ensure that ethical and moral limits are in place with regards. But whatever it is we choose to talk about in the classroom, like totally.
Hollie
But that doesn't mean.
Hollie
That you cannot grapple with some of those more contentious areas of inquiry.
Hollie
Areas that are.
Hollie
Explicitly attached to those students. You know when it's about. I mean, sometimes we talk about conspiracy theories. We might talk about life on Mars actor thing, but ultimately we're talking about you talking about cultural.
Paul
LOL yeah.
Hollie
Subject in issues that are very much.
Hollie
Going to be, if not already vary in their lives as soon as they get on and out into a modular fighting spectrum of of old people in and work experience is so again.
Hollie
True, yeah.
Hollie
Hollie
I mean, I think it's it's vitally not. There's not a week goes by where I am not trying to get.
Hollie
At some point in the week, all of my my my.
Hollie
Students to think carefully about something to do with.
Hollie
An issue that might.
Speaker 3
Hollie
Crop up for them. I wanna see you.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Hollie
Romantic issue, I mean an issue that is out there in the world, yeah, but we are as a species dealing with weather. Same enough for water, sounding too worthy, insincere about it. It's not all. It's not all.
Paul
Anne.
Hollie
Conceptive serious.
Hollie
Did they about you know?
Paul
No, not at all.
Hollie
Sometimes the easy school pop cultural about you know that the state film or music and the differences between how?
Hollie
Their generation receive and accept certain things as opposed to the way we do even landing for normal conversation with my students last week.
Paul
Yeah, yeah.
Hollie
Week about.
Hollie
Speaker 3
And.
Hollie
You know the idea of opening up the concept of semantics and and and how they use language to communicate with each other, either either when there.
Hollie
Through through through social media or when they're talking to each other, our flight, and it it's it's. It was fascinating to get feedback as to how those colloquialisms, for example, have much more meaning than we give them credit. You know, cause we hear it all the time. Zone EW here we here.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Hollie
A comedy. Think of the white.
Hollie
Word we hear from students speak to each other.
Hollie
Um from.
Paul
Yeah they have. There they have their own, you know music communication and that language is developing now. Sometimes I wish your classroom. I've no idea what they're saying. I'm
Hollie
Music.
Hollie
Hollie
Exactly what do?
Hollie
Exactly do.
Paul
Like what, what, what was that?
Hollie
You think it's worth opening it up with them? Because more often than not you get some some very enlightening feedback as to not just what the word means, but what it what it can conception of what it means to them, about how they think about other people, and so that's worth that's worth diving into. But my point is that is that that that critical thinking in that careful considered.
Paul
Yeah.
Paul
Absolutely.
Hollie
I'm.
Hollie
Analysis And discussion is is I try and keep it as as broad as possible and I'm I've yet to have a discussion whereby I've not got the sense that you know what that was at. Dubs really worth talking about because I got so much feedback.
Hollie
And clearly, that's enough of a measure to carry on.
Speaker 3
Paul
Yeah, I think I was just thinking bout this to an earlier episode with Pamela Dale where we will talk about time and you know recently come up where we kind of two minds that start with sometimes as educators it within English maths.
Paul
Well, like we don't have a lot of time, they need to move forward. We gotta move on. Then there's the other side of us.
Hollie
No.
Paul
That's like, you know, actually we have we have a duty to introduce this and and talk about it and Andy brief it. And like you say no only two weeks ago. Three weeks ago.
Speaker 3
Paul
It's not all major world topics we were talking about.
Paul
Manners in manners of millennials and manners, manners of Gen Z and managed the other generations so it was relating to what they thought.
Paul
The older jet, the next generation up was about and also then talk about the manners of how they've changed.
Paul
And you know, being a been classed as a millennial in the classroom and then they binge NZ was was really different because they could see where I was coming from.
Paul
And I was also, you know, trying to hold the flag for the other generations in it trying to explain those kind of cultural changes you know and now.
Speaker 3
Yes, yeah.
Paul
You know, even sitting on your mobile phone at a dinner table, that's rude, but now that's that's the norm for some people in their household and somethings are.
Paul
Out.
Paul
With your boss that it's about how society is changing, but it's also about how.
Paul
Society is developing as well.
Paul
And their important topics were coming towards them.
Paul
The end name, all of of our podcast, so I'm just a just a quick one. Have you got a most memorable lesson? Will be positive? It could be a negative. Could be about.
Speaker 3
He yeah.
Hollie
Earn.
Hollie
You know what it would mean? If it's saying we massively not not not so kind of weed in water.
Hollie
One of my most recent lessons because it's so highly connected with what we've been talking about a so before we broke up for Easter we had.
Speaker 3
Eat.
Speaker 3
New.
Hollie
Unless and where we were looking at, um, opening short stories.
Hollie
Are you still on structuring language to to do that?
Hollie
And.
Hollie
I need a huge film. Sam Adams.
Hollie
Cinephile and I love music as well, so I do try and weave that into to try and make a connexion between ideas within creative writing and popular culture.
Speaker 3
Any?
Hollie
But I'm inclined to to to show them a couple of minutes from film or the opening of a film or or something, or even a reading from an audio book.
Paul
Yeah.
Hollie
And.
Hollie
Something just called fire with the with that class that day and it was. It was a bunch of construction motor vehicle lads who can at times as I'm sure you will know you find it hard to to kind of prize open their imaginations with storytelling.
Hollie
But every single student granted their own 11 students in the classroom, but every single student lo two or more paragraphs of an opening of a of a short story based on either an image that I've given the mall or jumping off of the opening of the films that had shown an Rd just the I put it all up all up on Pro monitor as well. Just just the level of care and the level of.
Speaker 3
Hollie
At the.
Hollie
It did not notice the care, but just the level of investment that they put into the work.
Paul
Yeah.
Hollie
Which was phenomenal.
Hollie
But it was so good and it was like what I've missed so much about working, not not being a college and not working with my students is the ability to sit with the student when the fresh off the page when I've written something fresh off the page and were looking through it.
Paul
Yeah, that's that's that's a really important moment, isn't it? That's that.
Speaker 3
Hollie
I've missed that so much holy Now, I'm not. I'm not saying to almost resting for one moment that I've not been able to indulge.
Hollie
A races of monitoring and assessing and marking work online. I have, but it's nothing quite like being in the classroom and what was lovely about that day.
Hollie
Holi is the socially distance. Of course. I took when I took the work of breaking women, sat on another and another table, but still communicated with them as I would really trigger work where they were pinpointing areas of structural language. So again, one of the reasons that lesson was so good.
Hollie
Socially.
Hollie
Paul
It was crazy.
Hollie
It's because they had conscientiously and deliberately we green language and structure into those short stories, but above and beyond that was the imaginative content.
Hollie
That they were offering up. This was grey. Interesting if you have them here, it's interesting.
Speaker 3
Hollie
Good.
Hollie
Let you say it restores my faith in the students ability to grapple with what we know to be.
Hollie
Something difficult.
Hollie
Subject matter, but often I have to teach myself well.
Paul
It was always there.
Hollie
Exactly you improving it? Is it just me cultivating it? Just needed teasing and it needed to be connected with something that day.
Paul
Sorry yeah.
Hollie
We are in success. For example, I remember at the beginning of that lesson we were talking about, you know the class full of motor vehicle lads, most of them a lot of oil.
Hollie
At least level gamers alotta like horror, so we jumped in on some gaming and some some of their favourite horror movies.
Hollie
And so our theme. Ultimately, for the second, was to begin the opening using structural language. So to open up a kind of tense.
Hollie
Scary.
Hollie
Other type Horror Story and because they were engaged with their interest and love of of that type of movie or that type of game, they actually found it quite easy. So I wasn't just getting paragraphs Holly.
Hollie
Holy in some instances I was getting pages.
Paul
Flower, and that's the beauty of being able to tap into their interest, isn't it? You know, and an enhanced it on what what they have.
Paul
Possibly.
Paul
Hollie
Yeah, because again against its usual word, which I really think is that is is the beacon word of the podcast today ownership. They walk away from that session. Hawley and they know and they will remember.
Hollie
They remember they remembered.
Hollie
This way as well, not just by remembering the world that they've done, but by me saying, I remember, I know what you're capable of.
Hollie
I remember what you did last week and it's but it's walking away knowing that you know what I can do this. I have done it.
Hollie
And I will do it again. Now. I'm not saying I'm not saying that every student does there. I'm not even saying that 50% of students will walk away and come back within the next session remembering what they've done, but.
Paul
Absolutely.
Hollie
I think if if they can, if they can remember and there's some sort of equals two to the idea that actually I'm capable of writing.
Hollie
Um, a decent bit of prose or a decent descriptive work, but had some structure and language. Huge steel.
Speaker 3
England.
Paul
Massively well, thank you for that Paul. That's wonderful when we just coming towards the end of our podcast. So thank you very much for joining us today and I'm sure we'll catch up soon.
Hollie
That it's been a pleasure, Holly. I look forward to. Thank you so much for your time.
Hollie
Thanks for.
Hollie
Speaker 3