0:00 Ryley: Say your full name, where you're from. and um, like where you move to and just like a little bit about how you made it into the US.

0:18 Pedro: Pedro Abuque Moreira. I'm from Belo Horizonte Brazil. I ended up in the US when I was 16 years old,I moved to Minnesota to play hockey. I came as an exchange student. After that, I transferred out of Indiana during COVID, due to some visa regulation changes. After that, I decided to move to the south and now we're here. 

0:47 Ryley: All right, let's jump right into the questions. you could say as much or as little as you want, there's 15 questions so don't feel like you have to go super in depth and all of them. What is your earliest memory interacting with the Internet? 

1:03 Pedro: Honestly, I think my earliest memory is probably fifth or fourth grade. I say maybe even sixth grade to really remember the Internet. I know growing up, we had a big computer in my house, but I'd never remember going to the Internet. 

1:24 Ryley: sixth grade for you would be… 2010? 

1:29 Pedro: No, later I would say like 2012 I can figure that out. I would say around 2012, 2011 I think.

1:46 Ryley: When was the first time how much you realized the Internet would change, like the world we live in, or when you realized the Internet was important? 

1:51 Pedro: I honestly probably realized that going into high school in the US or maybe even like my early times in high school in Brazil, where social media started being a bigger thing. for us, but I would say middle school and now that, and I did my whole middle school in Brazil, we all had cell phones, but we weren't concerned about going to Google and now there, where we just use our apps like YouTube, Instagram, especially YouTube for me growing up. and WhatsApp, which is what we use to communicate about, say, I'm not gonna say that I didn't use because I didn't know it was just like it was not presented to me, no one was really wor about going to the Internet. I guess it was just my generation when I was born in Brazil, there's no cell phones, there's no really Wifi. like there is the Internet I bet, but I really don't know. You know? And then years goes by and I just kind of grew up with it kind of learning with time, you know, never felt that was something like nowadays kids are born with it. I just learn within my life, but my contact got way stronger when I came to the US. definitely. 

(New clip) 0:19 Ryley: Would you describe it as a luxury at the time? I know you said that it wasn't presented to you. but you did also say there's a computer in your house, so it's not necessarily like it's only a thing that some people have. Maybe you just didn't realize the importance. How would you describe it?

0:37 Pedro: Nowadays even if you go to the poor areas in Brazil, Everyone has Wifi, everyone has a cell phone, I think, you know, they just got polarized to the point. He's like accessible to everyone, but for sure, as a kid, I would think I was one of the lucky ones to be to have early contact with the Internet, and also being on private school, I remember when I was like sixth grade, fifth, and fourth grade, we would have this computer class, which is like those big computers and we just we just learn us how to type on a computer was a typing class. So. Yeah, so yeah, I would say you was definitely a luxury at the time, nowadays, not really, but at the time definitely.. 

1:16 Ryley: Do you have any memorable media that you like to remember kind of or associate with when you first got on the Internet such as movies, websites, TV, video games, like anything like that. 

1:27 Pedro: YouTube, I love Brazilian comedy growing up, so I would just be on YouTube for hours watching those Brazilian YouTubers. They would just do comedy shows. and I think that was my early contact that I remember was YouTube and Instagram. 

1:44 Ryley: Yeah, definitely. Um All right, this one is a bit more broad, not necessarily personal, but like an opinion, uh from an general perspective what do you think the biggest difference between Brazil and the United States is in the way that they've embraced the Internet over the years? or the way that the Internet kind of informs the way people live their daily lives or on a larger scale like business or something like that. 

2:10 Pedro: it's getting there, but the way I like to say everything that happened to the US usually gets to Brazil, but we have a delay of three to four years until it gets down there. So that's a good question. Can repeat the question like the last one,

2:32 Ryley:  like thinking on a larger scale, like the way the media affects people. Like, do you think that there's like a very different way that Brazilians kind of interact like say like movies in the US, like movies were a huge thing, they still are, people go to the movies. That's a way that, like the whole mass cultures interacting with the media,  do you think that there's a huge difference, or do you think it's the same and just like a delay, like you said?

2:56 Pedro: I think it is the same, just a delay you know, and we use different media places, you know, so, I've seen the movie theater is big. I know because I heard that my grandparents have to go to a movie theater. and for me growing up, was YouTube, but before I got in contact with learned technology was the TV, that was my contact with things like American shows, honestly. so American shows in Brazil. I was just lucky to be born in a family that introduced me to English at a younger age, but most people wouldn't if that makes sense.

3:29 Ryley: Do you remember what shows it was? 

3:31 Pedro: Yeah, Caoui, Backyardigans. Barney. um there's some others growing up, like Phineas and Ferb. 

3:41 Ryley: Like all the same shows that I watched, is crazy, but um yeah, uh let's see. Do you know of any instances where, uh the Brazilian government or like any um regulatory service, say, like, in the US, there's like groups of moms that kind of get on. Like when the media is coming out, you know what I mean? You know what I'm talking about? Like, I forget the exact name of them. but like anything that's kind of like promoted or restricted certain, like advancements of the Internet or aspects like that?

4:09 Pedro: I think if we talk politics wise, Brazil is in a hard moment right now and, as we know, it's considered a hard world country. not so long ago, the judicial system tried to ban X and they did ban X. Oh, yeah, for a little bit because the guy was having some troubles with Elon Musk, but this overturned after a while, because people went to social media and was like, this is a joke, you know? They can stop our former expression, because Twitterer is a big space that people use there to just speak their minds up. So, I would say there's not control, but in my personal opinion of the current situation in Brazil, I do think the  government is a little sensitive. especially if you say things that's not in their favor. We're not a dictatorship, nothing like that is just I think we live in a world that any government in a world right now is not like people being against a little bit more control than they have.

5:17 Ryley: I totally get that. Yeah. And I think you'd say the same thing for America honestly, especially now. Let's not get too political anyway. um yeah, okay. You kind of already answered this one. I'll just re rephrase it, but in your experience, the rise of the Internet associated with American and Western culture, and you kind of like said yes, like you watch lots of American shows and all those kinds of things, like it did it I don't wanna like lead you on and answer the question for you, but like, just to get you thinking, like, that you had that same experience and there isn't like a Brazilian rise to the Internet. It's like it's completely intertwined with you like the American rising Internet and it's like it just plays off of that?

6:00 Pedro: I was like enough to come to the US at an early age.. I think my first time I've been here, I was 11 years old. Maybe younger. and I would always get my iPad or games from here because it wouldn't be released in Brazil. I was just blessed with the family I had. 

6:52 Ryley: Many Americans consider the Internet tool that can be used to create a quality across borders, not necessarily internationally, but just socio economic in America, you know, giving underprivileged kids experiences through the Internet learning, things like that. sharing of resources. Would you agree?

7:13 Pedro: I honestly think that the Internet should be slowly introduced to younger people because nowadays, there's a lot of exposure to bad things on the Internet. and those kids are being exposed to this thing where early on, they just start delivering data to those big companies and they start sending him the same things over and over and over. So I think the way that I was introduced was the best way, where I had some years without the Internet without cell phones, and was just able to truly value the social skills and talking skills of one another, and then eventually, when I was mature enough, I got access to it. and I think special now there's more protecting to youth is very important in the Internet and teaching them how to use into their benefit. It's very important because I don't think that everyone does. I think most people use the intern Internet and others for self pleasure. That means not only pornography, but I mean YouTube, Netflix, anything that you enjoy. I I don't think most of us are using it to research things besides us who are academic people in college or high school. 

6:17 Ryley: You've led right into my next question, which is like, out of all the things that people use the Internet for nowadays, like what do you think has been the most profound change, like in Brazilian and American culture? And from what you're saying, it's not like the leaps you've got for like business or academia, you think it's like the user, the social things that you kind of really take the front seat.

8:44 Pedro: yeah, and I think Brazil's very on par with American culture. I think over there, we just use different social media websites, but it's still very big and I think not of the younger generation, but even now the people like my mom age, 40, early 30s, are getting too deep into that Internet world. already. where I think themselves don't know how to handle anymore.

9:09 Ryley: I mean my mom's on Instagram now it's really weird. but I can I agree, totally. 

9:15 Pedro: My grandma sends me reels, you know, on her and it's it's awesome to have their communication with them, but I don't know, I just wish that people taught us more how to use the Internet and how to use it as an asset. 

9:31 Ryley: And give people a sense of  pitfalls that you can fall in and stuff like that, yeah, you need like a how to use the Internet course. 

9:36 Pedro: Because you have access to the world, once you have access you can search whatever you want

9:46 Ryley: Yeah, honestly, that you've covered like, all my questions are like, we kind of covered all of them. talking about the Internet and um yeah, honestly from what you've said, I feel like the it's it's not as different as one might suspect it's just kind of it's just playing off of like what what's going on here and every everywhere else kind of plays off of that and and that's like kind of the whole hypothesis, if you want to say, of like, what our project was, so that's interesting to hear and like, is there any like final thoughts you want to share, like experiences, stories?

10:21 Pedro: I like how you on the Western culture and that effect has in different countries and then I just like to mention that maybe Americans, like you guys might not realize how much impact your culture has in the world and it need that technology could invest advancements and everything and people in my country, I was looking, oh, look how cool it is, like an American show, or no, because it's different for us, the same way of Brazilian show might be different for you. for us is that new environment. And I think that's why there's a little delay, but once again there, everyone gets excited about it because it's new for us.

10:12 Ryley: All right, thank you, Pedro. This has been. super helpful. I'm gonna transcript your interview and you'll find yourself in a podcast here and I can send it to you. 

00:00:01 Connor Perry 

Say your name and where you're from. 

00:00:03 Libby Flat  

My name is Libby and I am from the UK. 

00:00:09 Connor Perry 

OK, Libby, what was your? 

00:00:11 Connor Perry 

Earliest memory of interacting with the Internet. 

00:00:15 Libby Flat 

My first memory of interacting with the Internet was probably when I was like 8-9 years old and I used to go home and probably watch YouTube after school, and that was probably the first time I interacted with it. 

00:00:28 Libby Flat 

By myself. 

00:00:31 Connor Perry 

When was the 1st? 

00:00:32 Connor Perry 

Time you realized how much the Internet. 

00:00:35 Connor Perry 

Would change the world we live in. 

00:00:38 Libby Flat 

Within school and when we were about 8 years old, we used to take classes and they would always like on how to use like computers and just different things like that. And the teachers would always. 

00:00:49 Libby Flat 

Tell us how it was going to change the world and that the things they were teaching us like would not be the same forever. So they really put a large emphasis on making sure we understood the basics of using like computers and Google and like how to research. So I guess that was kind of. 

00:01:05  Libby Flat 

The first time. 

00:01:06 Libby Flat 

That we get got told that. 

00:01:08 Connor Perry 

And you would say that's like in 6th. 

00:01:08 Libby Flat 

It's gonna change a lot. 

00:01:10 Connor Perry 

Grade, right? Yeah. 

00:01:11 Connor Perry 

Like 2010. OK, sounds good. How would you describe the overall popularity or prevalence of the Internet when you were growing up in the UK based on your own personal experience or general conception of the country at that?

00:01:12 Libby Flat 

MHM. 

00:01:24 Libby Flat 

Time I feel like the Internet was like. 

00:01:27 Libby Flat 

Used a lot growing up like in all school projects. We kind of had to use it from like probably the age of like 5. We probably used it like we've been our parent. 

00:01:37 Libby Flat 

But we mostly like started to use it by ourselves, like when we were like 2011 and I feel like social media then like was introduced when we were 13 and that's probably when we started using social media. 

00:01:50 Connor Perry 

OK. How would you describe the? 

00:01:52 Connor Perry 

Internet access as a luxury at that time. How will you and your peers accessing the Internet when it first came on the scene? 

00:02:03 Libby Flat 

I feel like we use like computers and that was like a big one. Like every house had a laptop, so I guess we were really lucky. All our schools had, like, tablets that we could use. We all got like. A tablet within. School. So yeah, we pretty much like had electronic devices like from the age of maybe 10. 

00:02:24 Libby Flat 

Given to us through like school. 

00:02:29 Connor Perry 

That's all. Do you have any memorable media that you came in contact with the Internet? Do you have any memorable media that you came into contact with when the Internet came into your life? Movies, websites, TV, video games, chat rooms? 

00:02:48 Connor Perry 

Online shopping etcetera. 

00:02:50 Libby Flat 

I feel like the first one that I remember other than like YouTube, I used to be obsessed with watching that as like a kid, but is a video star. Me and my friends used to make so many video stars like every day after school like musically was like huge. Everyone would like just make these videos. So I guess that's like the first time. 

00:03:03 Connor Perry 

I didn't know they had that. 

00:03:10 Libby Flat 

Used it independently, but that's probably the one that stuck in my mind. 

00:03:10 Connor Perry 

Yeah. 

00:03:15 Connor Perry 

OK, So what you say for media studies perspective thinking about the way that new media affects cultural on a large scale, what do you think the biggest difference between the UK and United States is and embracing and on it such as policy, economic or cultural resistance etcetera? 

00:03:35 Libby Flat 

Feel like the UK? We don't really spend as much time on social media like social media really isn't a huge thing in the UK, whereas like, especially through my time at them and like everyone has Instagram like everyone is posting regularly whereas like comparing that to my friends back home, no one really. 

00:03:53 Libby Flat 

Posts on their Instagram no one really uses social media other than like private messaging to communicate. So here I think it's a lot more prevalent to like use it to kind of share with everyone what you're doing. But like in the terms of using Google and just like the apps we like have, it's pretty much the same. 

00:04:11 Connor Perry 

OK, so like from a culture? 

00:04:13  Connor Perry 

Existence and not really from economic goals standpoint. 

00:04:17 Libby Flat 

Yeah. I don't think economically like there's much difference between the UK and the. 

00:04:20 Libby Flat 

US. 

00:04:22 Connor Perry 

Has the British Government ever restricted or promoted children aspect of Internet technologies through regulations, for instance, have they restricted sodium websites, levy taxes on social Solomon technologies or stunted the growth of technology in any way? 

00:04:42 Libby Flat 

That they've ever restricted like anything that I can think of. Obviously there's some websites we can't access. I'm not sure, but like sometimes you'll try to access websites and you just can't. 

00:04:53 Libby Flat 

But I feel like the way the UK Government kind of like pushes technology like the growth of technology is that every student like up until the age of like 50 and 60 and it has to take classes of how to use technology like you have to take IT classes and understand like basics to use technology. So they wouldn't really.

00:05:13 Libby Flat 

They like any restrictions, but they like have regulated within schools. It's taught till you're 60. 

00:05:19 Connor Perry 

OK, so for my education. Yeah. Awesome job in your experience with the rise of the Internet in the UK associated with American or Western culture. 

00:05:32 Connor Perry 

Do you think this affected the way that technology was received? 

00:05:37 Libby Flat 

I feel like it was, I think as technology has grown and as social media has grown, people want to be more like the US, which is kind of crazy cause it's like you can see how people live here. And I think in the UK there's such like a fascination with certain things and aspects of life in the US that it didn't. Restrict how it was received, especially like the Internet. I think people actually welcomed it more and really found it interesting to like see how different places, especially in America like live their lives and do things. So I think it was like helpful in how we received technology in the UK. 

00:06:19 Connor Perry 

Uh. 

00:06:23 

Yeah. 

00:06:26 Connor Perry 

Many Americans consider their Internet a tool that can be used to create equality across portals by spitting information in easy and easing the sharing of resources and your experience. 

00:06:40 Connor Perry 

Which you agree. 

00:06:42 Libby Flat 

Yes, I especially like in the UK, I. 

00:06:46 Libby Flat 

I think it's kind of easier to share information just cause it's geographically a lot smaller. So I wouldn't say we use it a lot to do that like it's kind of just easier to spread things through like social norms than it is here just because the country is a lot smaller. But I do think the Internet has a place to like with that. 

00:07:07 Connor Perry 

UM. 

00:07:10 Connor Perry 

Do you think but publish official history of the rise of the Internet is true to what really happened in your experience? Do you believe they seek to minimize certain aspects or control the narrative to a certain degree? 

00:07:27 Libby Flat 

I definitely think like you have to be careful when using the Internet in the UK just because. 

00:07:34 Libby Flat 

Certain, like political parties, will put information out and I think it is a really big thing to kind of look at everything through a critical eye. I wouldn't say like I've experienced lots of things being changed with the government or like the government influencing a lot. But I think it's just like as usual, being very careful with how you look at things. 

00:08:00 Connor Perry 

Sounds good. Uh, looking back at these technology changes, which one was the has had the most prevalent impact on Buddhist society and why? 

00:08:12 Libby Flat 

I think. 

00:08:14 Libby Flat 

They like change of using the Internet from like just researching to like social media was probably the biggest change just because I think the Internet was like useful cause you could research things and find out about things. We had to go out of your way to do that. Whereas social media it was really easy to act. 

00:08:31 Libby Flat 

Just like and understand like individuals, peoples lives, but in such different places. It was a lot easier to like, just like randomly come across things. So I think social media is something that, like, changed that massive life. 

00:08:48 Connor Perry 

And then UM. 

00:08:51 Connor Perry 

Some believe the toxic rise of technology in foreign countries creates cultural colonization.

00:09:08 Connor Perry 

Some believe the metaphorical rise of outside technology in foreign countries creates cultural colonization. Do you agree? Do you think this is good or bad or neutral, or why I think? 

00:09:23 Connor Perry 

The like, especially the rise of social media, we understand each other's cultures a lot more, or we are able to like observe other people's cultures. So I do think being from the UK. 

00:09:37 Connor Perry 

And then through the Internet, I think it kind of makes people understand and get to see different things that they wouldn't have without the Internet, just cause it makes the world a little bit more globalized. But I wouldn't say it's a bad thing. I just think it helps us kind of understand each other more. Yes, people. 

00:09:56 Libby Flat 

Like slightly change and adopt like different ways of living just because they can now understand this from seeing it through the Internet. But I wouldn't say it is a like a bad thing. 

00:10:11 Connor Perry 

How would you compare the rise of the Internet in your home country with more recent? 

00:10:18 Connor Perry 

Paradigms shifts in technologies such as social media. 

00:10:28 Connor Perry 

I think like is the Internet has. 

00:10:36 Connor Perry 

I think in the UK there has been like a rise in incomes, especially growing up like I know our household income increase with that the in the way we use the Internet kind of change. So we kind of used it as less of a research source and now it like came as entertainment. So then you're like families. 

00:10:54 Libby Flat 

The food, like Netflix and kind of the social media streaming services. So I think the changes in like people's social economic status within the UK is slowly like increasing. So this is helping us adopt different ways of using the Internet, which is probably the biggest way I've seen it change throughout my lifetime. 

00:11:16 Connor Perry 

Sounds good in your opinion. What part of the rise of the Internet story goes untold from your home country? 

00:11:25 Libby Flat 

I think I think with the like rise of the Internet, I really remember like it kind of was that all our lives. But I think the way we use it, Internet has changed drastically especially. 

00:11:36 Libby Flat 

Like being young and like having to use it in school. It was very much like research based and like you had to use Google whereas like as I got to around like 1314 it was definitely like mostly used for social media and entertainment purposes. And then in high school it kind of changed to being able to use it for research. 

00:11:57 Libby Flat 

But there was a lot more different ways to research, like there's open AI now and things like that. So you kind of have to be a little bit more careful with how you research and how you use the Internet just because the information out there might not always be true. 

00:12:13 Connor Perry 

Amazing. Thank you so much, Libby, for doing this and we're going to turn this into a podcast and you're. 

Raiana De Carvalho 00:00
I clicked approved. It does show that it's recording. Okay.

Vicky Hu 00:09
Sure. Could you briefly introduce yourself? Thank you.

Raiana De Carvalho 00:16
I'm Doctor Raiana De Carvalho. I work as an assistant professor in the department of communication studies here at Furman University, I have a PhD in mass communications, master of arts in communication studies, and a bachelor of arts in social communication and journalism. And i'm originally from Brazil.

Vicky Hu 00:43
Thank you. So our first question is about what's your earliest memory of interacting with the internet?

Raiana De Carvalho 00:53
With the internet? I think I was eight years old.

Vicky Hu 00:59
8 years old.

Raiana De Carvalho 01:01
I was in Brazil. And ill was actually my uncle who introduced me. And when I say my uncle, he was my aunts, boyfriend at the time they later got married and it was still the dial up internet. I was in my grandma's house. We were still living there with my mom at the time. My uncle showed me how to dial up to the internet. And he introduced me to some of these online chats. Yeah. And I think that was the first time that I went through this experience of talking through a typed chat, with someone that I didn't know online, right? So of course I have friends, I would like call them. I use like telephone calls with my friends for actually a long time during my childhood and teenage years. But my first contact with the internet was the dial up one and then chatting with strangers online.

Vicky Hu 02:19
Cool. So do you remember which year that in that moment like.

Raiana De Carvalho 02:27
if I was eight, that was 1999

Vicky Hu 02:31
1999.

Raiana De Carvalho 02:33
Yeah,

Vicky Hu 02:34
So it's like not really a like really long away ago, but still like 20 years. More than,

Raiana De Carvalho 02:42
Yeah. Which is crazy to me.

Vicky Hu 02:48
When was the first time that you realize how much the internet would change the world that we live in now?

Raiana De Carvalho 02:57
That I think that was a realization that came to me when I was older and studying this phenomena, right? Yeah, because when you think about it, if I encountered the internet, when I was 8 years old, I considered that still an age in which I was exploring things. So I grew up with a lot of different developments when I think about in terms of media technology. I never really embrace them as something strange. It was always like exciting to me that I would have like these new things coming up. Yeah. When I started to have access to cable tv when I started, yes, like when the idea of streaming tv came, that really sounds new to me, but the internet it was almost like this is a new thing that i'm learning. So i saw how it was evolving. At first, I would interact mainly through chats, and then I started to use the browsers. And then I started to listen to a lot of music online, and I loved that part. Then it came youtube. And for me, that was amazing because I used to watch a lot of mtv because I would love video clips and I would love music. And then when youtube came about, and it was like, I can just search for my favorite video clips, and I couldn't watch them. Like I wouldn't have to wait to download the songs and the video clips that I liked this idea of shrinking. That was something phenomenal to me. But you realize the importance of all of that in how it changed our world that really came after he started to study. Because growing up, it was just a new experience to me all the time. And it was wonderful. The stage that I am right now. It's like i'm really concerned about some of these technological developments. And I think I think probably during my undergraduate studies, it's when I started to be more, but by then I still a had a very optimistic view.

Vicky Hu 05:12
Yeah.

Raiana De Carvalho 05:12
The possibilities of the internet. So in terms of concerns, I think that was more already during my graduate studies, already at the end of my master's program. Because during my undergrad, I was also very excited about the possibilities.

Vicky Hu 05:33
Could you share a little bit about like concerns that you mentioned?

Raiana De Carvalho 05:39
Sure, I have a lot of concerns about the state of our democracies, because I think a there is sort of a double effect. When you think about all these possibilities that an unrestricted internet environment can provide. Yeah. So when I was talking about the optimistic view that I used to have is very much in alignment with people used to think at the beginning of the 2000s, maybe about the internet being a democratize in space. So you have a lot of people now having the chains to voice their opinions into discuss together in a scale that we've never seen before. So we had a lot of this idea of participating in discussions, but potentially less power imbalances. So for me, the idea of democratically participating in public discussions about issues that might affect you and your communities, that's a wonderful idea. But what we've been seeing more and more is that the same tools that allow for that also allow for the spread of misinformation in this information, for a lot of expressions of hate speech, again, in a scale that we have not seen before. What concerns me is that is the extent to reach this possibility for missing information and this information to be at that extent, so easily to be widespread, can have consequences. They are very harmful for our democracies. We have the example of the January 6, 2021 attack to the capitol hill. And we had a similar phenomenon in Brazil, January 8 of 2023, that residents that also believed that the election was rigged somehow that it was not that the results were not true, made some people attack the Brazilian congress.

That that's the kind of consequences that we are seeing because of these tools that we used to think work. Amazing, right? That would increase participate. But what we're seeing is that in addition to a lot of misinformation and this information, people are increasingly becoming part of these filter bubbles.

Vicky Hu 08:44
Mhm.

Raiana De Carvalho 08:45
They are increasingly being less willing to listen to other people's perspectives instead focusing on the groups that they identify more. And the internet also allows for that, which, again, before we used to think that was a very great feature that people could find groups that they feel like they belong. But when you start to disclose yourself in these groups to the extent that you're not even willing to believe whatever comes after that, that's also when misinformation and disinformation conspiracy theories can grow up. When it gets to the extent that people don't even believe the results of an election that we can see in very, very real and concrete ways. How is compromising our democracy? This is the kind of concern that I have right now when we're talking about the effects of the internet in our societies,

Vicky Hu 09:42
okay, I understand, I think it's really deep like understanding of this concern and also about internet and also about the like future bubbles or something that we talk about. Yeah. Like were those technologies? Do you have like, it's like that when those internet and like cable tv come up to your country, is that like just for of several families or several people were just like be a general technologies.

Raiana De Carvalho 10:29
So you're talking about the internet, I think an experience that many countries have had, especially when we're talking about developing nations, is that that's often the case with other technologies as well, not only the internet, but sometimes they at the beginning are accessible only to a certain group of people or people that can have access to that.

When we're thinking about the internet, you would have to have either you need to have a device right? to access the internet, and then you need to. Now we have wifi and broadband access, but that was not the reality at the very beginning. Right? Not everybody had the financial means to have a dial up internet and to have a device that they could access. So usually that was more for affluent families. And then a it started to become more popularized. So the middle class families start to engage more, but then the catch up for people that don't have the same financial means or the same opportunities of access. It starts to create the digital divide. So that's not a different experience than what we had in Brazil. Right? There's still a lot of digital divides. There's still a lot of a large percentage of the population that either don't have regular access to the internet or only have access through mobile phones and only trust a limited extent. For example, to use primarily what's up. There's also in terms of media literacy, right? Or the groups that have more literacy and maybe can take more advantage of these tools. So we do have a lot of digital divides in Brazil at the same time. I feel that Brazil also had some of progressive projects of digital inclusion that try to decrease that gap, right? That they justified between the groups that had access to this very early on and have a lot of literacy to take advantage of that technology in the groups that either don't have access or still have very limited access.

So it has some projects of digital inclusion in rural areas, for example, to donate computers for public schools, to have classes on how to take advantage of the internet to improve the conditions of their local communities.

Vicky Hu 13:18
Yeah.

Raiana De Carvalho 13:20
So I think I when I reflect about the digital divides in Brazil, I try to also think about this potentialities that I think the country had that recognizing that there is a problem and then trying to address that, but it's never enough like playing the catch up game and reducing the inequalities which go beyond access to the internet. Right? We're talking about social inequities. That's usually a problem that involves multi solutions in different areas. So it's very complex to solve.

Vicky Hu 14:02
I see. So. How were you and your peers accessing the internet when to like first came or at this moment.

Raiana De Carvalho 14:17
You mean when it first came and then.

Vicky Hu 14:20
yeah, like and how you and your peers like accessing the internet endure like childhood.

Raiana De Carvalho 14:28
So when I was eight, I was accessing, when I first started to access the internet, was through a computer, right at desktop. And it was dial up internet. And the friends, some of my, as I started to become a teenager, MSN was a huge deal, MSN it was a they could call it a chat, a channel for chatting with friends. So you would add people. That was a huge deal when I was growing up. And many of my peers had access to that. So we would be at school. And then when we would get home, we would get into msn and we kept chatting about whatever. But I remember there was a and then maybe in my, when I just got to college. So maybe when I was about 18, That's when social media platforms like facebook started to become a thing. The first one that I used was called a coach a.

Vicky Hu 15:45
how to spell it.

Raiana De Carvalho 15:47
I'm going to write in the chart Orkut.

Vicky Hu 16:00
I mean is that kind of like a what's app or a message like those applications?

Raiana De Carvalho 16:07
No, it was more similar to a facebook page. 

While the word was catching up with facebook, Brazil, and India, we're using a lot of the Orkut platform, so you would have your profile, and then you would add your friends, which would add you as well. You will have like your biographical information, and then we would have a place for comments. So as I was rolling up, if I could leave like aa nice message and the page of a friend.

We would have these community pages that we would follow. So I used to follow community pages of different music bands, radio head, nirvana. I was like a rock girl, and metallica. And we also have very stupid community pages, just like I love chocolate, and that would be a community page that people would get in to talk about why they love chocolate or whatever.

So it was all about building your identity online and connecting with friends. So that was the first social platform that I used. And then it went away, facebook came in, and facebook started to be a success in everybody migrated to facebook. I think I had a lot of peers using, but I do remember if I can tell one anecdotal story. My best friend during my school years before college,

Vicky Hu 17:59
Yes.

Raiana De Carvalho 18:01
It took a while until he had a computer desktop device at his place.

Vicky Hu 18:07
Mhm.

Raiana De Carvalho 18:09
So a lot of the experience that i've had, but the internet growing up, he only access that when we were at school. So I remember going walking with him to a lin house. Lent house. I don't know if that's how you called here. A place that you pay, I don't know a dollar, and you can access the internet for an hour or so. It's a place that have the computers and then right? We went to alone house and I helped him create his coach page.

Vicky Hu 18:47
Mhm.

Raiana De Carvalho 18:49
I remember that very vividly, because I didn't realize at that time that there were people that I interrupted every day that didn't have the same access to the internet that I had. So we went through the whole process of creating the page, and then, but for his case, he would have to leave his home, pay a fee and go to this link houses to use the internet. Today is, I would say he's more versed in the whole social media thing that I am. He loves it, he has instagram snap chat, all the pages. He works with digital marketing. He loves it. But at the very beginning, I never forget the fact that we there was sort of a gap between us in terms of accessing internet and digital devices to access the internet that definitely don't exist between me and him anymore.

Vicky Hu 20:08
Do you have any like memorable media stories like Orkut or other media platform that they use in that period?

Raiana De Carvalho 20:27
Are you escaping relation to the internet or any kind of media.

Vicky Hu 20:31
can be internet, but also can be other your memorable media platform?

Raiana De Carvalho 20:40
I think if we're talking about internet related media usages, I think when I discovered youtube, it was the whole thing, even though I didn't, I wasn't really concerned about having a profile page in there. This access to different videos was very attractive to me. I would spend like hours just watching music online. And then when streaming television became a thing that was also very impressive for me, like I I used to love watching movies. So ii left for a while at my grandparents house.

They had cable TV every month we would receive this. It was sort of a magazine that summarized the programming for the different channels that we had access through cable TV.

Vicky Hu 21:47
yeah.

Raiana De Carvalho 21:49
And every month I would go through the programming in highlight the films that I wanted to see in the times that they were going to be in the tv programming so I could watch them. When streaming television came right and that flicks was really the first one.

It was like this model that you pay in at the beginning. It was very cheap. You pay like the small fee. And then you have access to this platform and you choose what you want to watch. It was a little limited, but you choose all among all these different options and you can watch whenever you want. Yeah, that was like that's so new to me because I was used to having to wait for a movie. Yeah, it wasn't on the movie theater, right? And I would always try to go for the movies that I like, but if it wasn't there, I would have to wait for them to be the tv news programming for me to be able to watch it. Or I also grew up renting a lot of movies, either as video cassettes or dv ds. Having this other model that I didn't have to wait or I didn't have to like go to a physical place, rent a DVD come back home and put it there. That was a big change that was like this. That may be going back to that question. That was the moment that I realized that kind of platform shrimp platform was going to change completely our viewing habits.

Vicky Hu 23:26
Another question is that from the media studies perspective, like, what do you think is the biggest difference between Brazil and the United States and embracing the internet?

Raiana De Carvalho 23:45
That is a big question. But I think we can talk, we could talk about in terms of regulation. One difference that I see is that this idea of freedom of speech, in the first amendment in the us is not only really valuable to how the us functions as a society is also a strong value that often defines American identity, right? So even though Brazilians, value, freedom of expression, we have a long history with authoritarian regimes and with an authoritarian regime during the dictatorship years.

Vicky Hu 24:48
Yeah.

Raiana De Carvalho 24:49
So even though we do value freedom, we spend many years fighting for that. I think our conceptions of free speech are not the same as the ways that the us feels it here, because I think we are more open to some form of regulation. So when we're talking about the internet, brazil actually passed what we call Marco Civil Law building the energy. So it's a Marco Civil Law of the internet in that past and 2014. In this sort of this legal framework that tries to establish some of the rights and guarantees when using the internet. So it's not like it's free for all kind of space. So there is this acknowledgment that we need to promote freedom of expression and the internet for that to be possible. There needs to be some regulation for people to have their privacy protected. So hate speech and this information are not so widespread. We were able to pass a legal framework to regulate free speech in the internet, which ii personally believe there are a lot of advantages to that, because even in the us there are legal controls right to freedom of speech. And I think in the us that would be a much more harder kind of launch of pass, because I think the conversations of around free speech in the internet here, people often end up thinking that any type of regulation would be at the expense of freedom of speech.

I think in Brazil, we have an understanding that's not necessarily the case that you can have some sort of regulation on the internet and still have freedom of speech, actually, as a way to protect freedom of speech and to regulate unprotected speech. But again, Brazil is also a huge country., so people will also have different views on that. But maybe if I could highlight a difference, it would be that I think we're more open to discussing how to regulate speech on the internet.

Vicky Hu 27:14
Do you know that has Brazilian government ever restricted or promoted certain aspects of internet technology through the regulations?

Raiana De Carvalho 27:29
I'm sorry, could you repeat the question?

Vicky Hu 27:30
Has to Brazilian government ever restricted or promote a certain aspect of internet technologies, regulations, like, for example, like in china, we cannot have access in the instagram or facebook like that.

Raiana De Carvalho 27:54
I believe, not to the extent, for example, that you have in china, right? But I think, as I just mentioned, the Marco Civil, the international could be a form of regulation. I'm typing here. In case you want to google that and learn more about that in a long time. But for example, we do have access showing instagram facebook acts and all of these latter forms that are not owned by a Brazilian company. Right? These are foreign companies. We do have, but because we have some regulation. We've had a recent case in brazil last year of justice from the supreme court banning the X platform, formerly twitter for a couple of days.

In that ban passed, because the supreme court order that some accounts, some twitter or ex accounts were closed, because they were spreading this information, misinformation. And x did not follow through that. It didn't close the accounts that they were being ordered to close because of misinformation problems. Yeah. Because they failed to follow the court orders then just as Alicia and regina rise order for twitter to be banned. And it worked with internet providers to make that happen. So users couldn't access that in the problem escalated. There was a moment that alamos then said, so we're not gonna have a legal team operating in brazil. In addition of not following the court orders, that's also against Brazilian law, any foreign company come acting in brazil should have a legal representation, because if there are sanctions that have to be employed, then it's easier if you have a legal team that is there. And these sanctions can actually happen. And that's also something that Marco Civil is building to, that the internet establishes. So when elements refuse to have a legal team representation, that's really when it escalated in they were fined daily for not following through the court orders of closing some accounts and then not having a legal representation until wax back down. And follow the court orders. We close some of the accounts that the supreme court was asking, and then they assign a legal representation again in Brazil.

Vicky Hu 31:02
Yeah.

Raiana De Carvalho 31:03
They pay the fines. So now we have X again, but there was this moment that as X was banned.

Because of the regulation that we have in terms of what is protected speech on the internet. And then the amount of influence that these foreign companies can have. We can't. I think the understanding, at least at that moment, was that can conflict with the Brazilian laws. Right? There is some regulation, but it's not to the extent that you see in china. So we steal my bags that show all of these bladder forms there.

Vicky Hu 31:48
So in your experience, was the rise of the internet in Brazil associated with American or western culture? Do you think this affected the way the technology was received?

Raiana De Carvalho 32:05
I'm sorry, could you repeat the question again.

Vicky Hu 32:08
In your experience, was the rise of internet in Brazil associated with America or western culture?

Raiana De Carvalho 32:17
Maybe I can tell yes from a very personal standpoint, I believe so. I'm saying that as I remember, my experiences as a teenager,

Vicky Hu 32:34
yes.

Raiana De Carvalho 32:35
I was already watching a lot of mtv which made me access a lot of american bands, right? Or British bands, or whatever. And then the internet sort of optimize that what I was already being presented with. And then what I was looking for. So when I was talking to you about how I would at the beginning using internet, a lot to listen to music online. One of my favorite bands at the time was the strokes, which is an American band, right? Or is it a British band? I don't even remember now anymore. I listen to a lot of the strokes, which is an American rock band. I listen to a lot of Radiohead, which is a event from the uk if i'm not mistaken, there was a time there that I listened to a lot of April of being, which is a Canadian musician. So you see the pattern there, right? Is either north American or Europe. Like, of course, I would like Brazilian music, but during that time growing up that specific time that I was having access to all of this on the internet, right? It was a lot of north American and European bands. It was a lot of north American and European music that I was seeking to have access later, more later in life, in my adulthood. That's when I started to sort of come back to what I would listen as a kid, which my parents was a big influence, right? They would have the vinyl records, and then it became CDs. So during my childhood, there was a moment that I listened to a lot of Brazilian music. But then when I became more like of a teenager watching MTV and accessing the internet, it was really north American and European songs.

So from my personal experience, I would say yes, the internet end ups in a way presenting me to the world. I developed my ability to speak in english, because I was having access to all of this content. So there are so good aspects of this, but it was interesting to reflect. I looking when I look back that I was not having access students from Africa or different countries in Africa, for example, even though there's so much afro Brazilian culture, right? There's so much connections between brazil and African countries. Still, all that I was having access and wanting to have access was from the north America in Europe. So that's an interesting reflection to make.

Vicky Hu 35:30
Cool. So many Americans consider the internet is kind of like a tool that can be used to create equality across borders by spreading information and is in the sharing of resources in your experience. Would you agree for that?

Raiana De Carvalho 35:55
Yeah, I think it goes back to some of the points we mentioned before. Yes. I used to have this more optimistic perspective, this idea of a global village in increased possibilities for people around the world to interact and to share different cultural values, different perspectives, this access, right to media content from different countries. So I certainly had that deal in the past.

Now I have a more critical view that there are there were imbalances like, I just told you about my personal history with all these possibilities. I end up still having more access to the culture, let's say the media cultural products coming from what sometimes we call the global north, right? So even though it might have felt that we had this possibility to equalize that you have the widespread of cultural products from different countries, the reality is a little different from that. There's still a lot of imbalances admitting that, though, is not the same to say that there hasn't been counter hegemonic experiences right in this global flow of information. Yeah, that we have increased now because of the possibilities offered by the internet, what we call the Korean wave with a lot of pop cultural products. Right? So we're talking here again about music, about television, coming from south Korea, and sort of countering this idea that is only products from the west that can achieve a global stage. We have experiences and that's not exactly tied to the internet, but the experiences of telome bella is from brazil, making a huge success outside of brazil. And we have from time to time experiences of movies that are from countries that we don't consider to be the global north in and up being a global success.

But even though we acknowledge that, I think we cannot say that it has been equal in terms of global flows for all nations, I think we still have a lot of divides in terms of which cultural products get to be widespread, especially with the possibilities of the internet that we thought should be these equalizer, right? Should be the democratizing tool. I don't think we're there yet.

Vicky Hu 39:04
Mhm. As you mentioned, in Brazil, there's kind of like a phenomenon that it could become really popular in the world. And is that kind of like globalization or do you have some examples that is kind of like youtube or facebook to go to Brazil, and then it become a localization. Like, do they have like adaptation to Brazil society? Do.

Raiana De Carvalho 39:46
Do you mean, could you clarify a bit more what the question is?

Vicky Hu 39:50
Just as you mentioned in your last answer that you said, there is a kind of like a big phenomenon in Brazil. And that is really successful to the world. W hat is that?

Raiana De Carvalho 40:09
You mean like the telenovelas?
The telenovelas is an interesting thing because when we're talking about Brazil or specifically, we have this huge media company called Globo. And global has produced a lot of telenovelas with. We consider high quality in terms of television, language, integrated scripts they used to hire. It have in the past exclusive contracts with very talented actors. They were able to export a lot of telenovelas as for different parts of the globe. But oftentimes, when you see in this telenovelas, as it is also a very limited deal or limited perspective on Brazilian culture and Brazilian society. Oftentimes, is this very affluent families and characters, high middle class people having luxurious lives. That's not the reality for many people in Brazil. That has changed because our cultural perceptions about some of these glass divides have changed. Racial representation in telenovelas has changed, but in the past, they used to be the case that usually the main characters were white. Yeah, and whenever you have like a black character, it would be like in a service position, like a maid. And again, that's a problematic reflection. When you have only white people since more than 50 % of Brazil is of afro a proceedings of black people.

Even though in telenovelas, as we have this phenomenon, that you can say, we have a huge cultural production that is coming from, quote, unfold a global south country that's being exported for many different countries.

For a long time, it was also a very limited is sometimes not if we can talk about this, which sometimes I don't even think it's something that is relevant, but not a quote unquote, accurate representation of what president is actually experience. There is a lot a lot of parts of our culture and that were never represented in telling a fellas. So you might ask the question, but what about Brazilian culture is being exported? It's not, for example, the experiences of indigenous communities, right? It's not like local experiences, is still an experience that can appeal to different global audiences in that some people might argue, can be limiting, right? You're exporting only aa very specific notion of the culture and power dynamics in Brazil. Have you said that this has changed some telling novella as have represented more different characters because the public is asking for that. But when you look at the history of tele members, that was not necessarily the case. So I think my final note about that is that any time that you're thinking about this idea of cultural products from countries that are from the global south were not developed, nations that are being exported. You also have to ask about ok but what kind of content are we talking about here? Are we talking about simply a reproduction of the styles and values of the west or global north countries? Or are we really talking about a diversity of perspectives in terms of highlighting local struggles, local cultures that historically have not been able to achieve that scale of representation in a global arena.

And we might see that about, it's not always the case that local cultures end up being exploited when we have these cases of global south countries being able to explore their cultural products to a worldwide audience. I did that answer the question.

Vicky Hu 44:49
Yes. It taught me a lot of new things. Yeah. And looking back at this technological changes, like internet or cable TV or something like that, which one has had the most profound impact on with brazil society. And why?

Raiana De Carvalho 45:22
I don't know that's a big question, but I would say that for sure the internet has changed a lot of things when we look at the recent history of media, technological developments. Because television continues to be a huge deal in Brazil, especially through the work of global. Global was for many decades, highly influential in it influenced a lot of the recent political history in the country.

Vicky Hu 46:02
Yes.

Raiana De Carvalho 46:03
And with the internet and all of the possibilities that social media platforms have given for people to participate in public discussions, but also have access to all kinds of content that has changed a little bit. I think that has contributed to some changes in the political context in the country for better or worse. So, so I think the internet, but that's not specific to Brazil. I think the internet has changed the recent political and cultural landscape. Yeah, of many countries. And Brazil is not an exception. In that sense.

Vicky Hu 46:47
Yes. Okay. Would you say, like western culture, like western application or the internet things is kind of like a neocolonism to Brazil society or some countries.

Raiana De Carvalho 47:13
Not necessarily, I wouldn't say, but we we do talk since the 70s, right? That's not specifically to the internet, but maybe we can apply a similar framework. Now. Since the 70s, some media scholars have talked about processes of cultural imperialism,

Vicky Hu 47:40
yeah.

Raiana De Carvalho 47:41
And how some western cultures and the US in particular, were able to advance a lot of their cultural values beyond their borders in each other countries. So some people have called that a process of cultural imperialism, right? You have this imperial goal to be this cultural and dominant force in other countries should spread your influence to other countries. So Brazil has also debated a lot about the extent to which in brazil, we might change value cultural products that are coming from north America or Europe. Right? So maybe if we're talking about cultural imperialism, there is a lot of debate.

Vicky Hu 48:43
Yeah.

Raiana De Carvalho 48:44
But the interesting thing, though, to highlight here is that there is a lot of resistance as well.

Brazil has had a lot of discussions in other latin american countries, have had a lot of discussions about the extent to which they want to allow simply this value of cultural products coming from abroad. Yeah, instead of valuing the cultural productions being made in the country, there are some attempts to value our own cultural productions, and know, in some cases to limit the extent that you allow cultural products from more powerful countries to be the dominant force in the country.

A there are a lot of debates around that. And then what we do with the fact that we do have, a lot of control weakness is coming from abroad. How do you negotiate this amazing possibility to know other cultures?
But in a way that you're not being negligent to the cultural artists or the cultural expressions that you have have in your country. So you don't lose that unique factor, right? About the people that are living there, that happen that have their own traditions. So say there's always a tension. Yeah, in Brazil is an example of that tension of negotiating being in constant exchange and interaction with other cultures, without losing sight of the need to maybe value, uplift and finance and find space for your national and local cultural productions. Right?

Vicky Hu 50:57
So last question, would you say your country has like untold story for the rise of the internet?

Raiana De Carvalho 51:11
For sure, yes. I don't know which those stories are, but again, when I was talking about those digital inclusion part projects, I think there might be a lot of stories among rural communities about when they first encounter the internet, it might have a lot of untold stories. Now most people died, have very limited access and I was just starting to get more access. Now. I would love to hear those stories, even though I don't, especially for me since i've been living in the us for almost 10 years now.

Vicky Hu 51:55
Yeah!

Raiana De Carvalho 51:55
I think there is a lot of stories that I cannot tell anymore, but that is a very good question. Possibly these and told stories may also be from people who don't have regular access to the internet or that have somewhat irregular access. But the content that they are producing maybe is not being picked up by the algorithm by or only by very niche communities. Yes. And Brazilians are so it might be biased here, but were so creative and were so funny. We have this tendency to make jokes and laugh at the worst possible moments. So I would better a lot of untold stories, a very resilient people that is struggle like many Brazilians struggle, but they are using the internet and very creative for funny and participatory ways. I'm sure there is a lot.

Vicky Hu 53:00
Okay. Thank you, Professor Raiana. Thank you for your interview. I think it's really helped us for doing our podcast for our media memory project.

Raiana De Carvalho 53:16
Ii hope it helps. Thank you for inviting me. It was a pleasure to talk to you. Good luck with the podcast. I hope some of it is useful.

Vicky Hu 53:25
Thank you.