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New internets
New internets
submitted 4 years ago by freakazoidd
[–]alonmln 28 points 4 years ago
Yes, the current 'internet' is the fact that all of the computers (users and servers) that are connected to one another use the same protocols, thus are able to receive and send information (and understand it). If you invent new protocols, a new 'internet' could be created. It'll be pretty interesting to see how things will be differently if the protocols would be written in this era all over again, probably a lot of 'cover ups' would be made more elegant.
[–]freakazoidd[S] 8 points 4 years ago
So through a "new" Internet one would not be able to access domains from the "old" internet such as google?
[–]Psyk60 11 points 4 years ago
I'd argue the answer to that is no, you wouldn't be able to. If you design the "new" Internet in such a way it's possible to access the "old" Internet, is it really a different Internet, or is it an upgrade to the existing one?
[–]NotPromKing 16 points 4 years ago
This is basically what's happening with the switch from IPv4 to IPv6. IPv6 is, quite literally, a new protocol. Oh so slowly IPv6 is replacing IPv4. Visualize it like replacing a carpet by first very carefully sliding the new IPv6 carpet underneath the old, grimy IPv4 carpet. Once the new carpet is in place, you can then start sliding out the old carpet.
The whole time, you can't move any of the furniture on top of the carpet, you can only lift each piece of furniture an inch as you slide that section of carpet...
[–]Bro-tatoChip 3 points 4 years ago
What a great explanation. I'm stealing this, it can easily be applied to other situations.
[–]iambluest 1 point 4 years ago
There would quickly be ways to cross between the two.
[–]Varaben 1 point 4 years ago
That's correct. It's like how I only speak English so someone speaking portugese can't give me any knowledge. This is a cool example if I do say so because it's possible for the new and old to learn each other's protocols then integrate.
[–]alonmln -2 points 4 years ago
It depends, if you construct a converter from the new internet to the old one, you would be able to just like you can read paper books on the computer because someone scanned them (the scanning being the convertor).
[–]pierced_turd 1 point 4 years ago
The more correct term you are going for is tunneling. You could use the old Internet infrastructure to transmit your new protocol by wrapping your new protocol packet inside an old one understood by the tech. This said, your new protocol cannot be fundamentally different from the old though for this to be feasible.
[–]alonmln 1 point 4 years ago
Yeah, sorry, this is probably a better term
[–]CoooookieCrisp 1 point 4 years ago
In case you are interested, there is a group that is kind of, sort of doing that. http://named-data.net/
[–]NotPromKing 1 point 4 years ago
You don't need a new protocol; there are many separate internets (e.g. WANs) in existence right now that all use the TCP/IP protocol stack.
You just need physically separate cabling. The different networks can even be running different protocols, as long as you have routers and bridges to convert between the protocols. As long as they're all physically cabled and talking to each other, they are one internet.
[–]Castigated 1 point 4 years ago
Wireless.
[–]NotPromKing 1 point 4 years ago
Wired or wireless makes no difference in the definition.
[–]loli_licker 6 points 4 years ago
Yes, you can create your own internet. Just connect a few computers with a cable, and voila - you have it. The internet is also just a network of computers.
[–]vsync 6 points 4 years ago
An internet is a network of networks.
[–]NeutralParty 3 points 4 years ago
What do you mean by 'internet'? You could create another network of computers separate from the one out there already easily and use all the same software to route traffic and everything. It'd be a totally distinct network and there could be no traffic between them. Plenty of these already exist, actually.
Or if you take /u/alonmln 's interpretation the internet is the TCP/IP stack - the protocols that define how computers can interact with one another and route traffic. If you take that stance than, as he says, you could theoretically just write a new stack from scratch.
[–]prepareyourailerons 2 points 4 years ago
If You connect a series of computers together it forms the basic definition of the term Internet. But if your question is more for the societal base, You would need a company to pick up connection to your computer grouping for distribution of connection to more computers. That is how your internet would grow and produce content. Theoretically, the new internet would follow a similar, but visibly different path of development. You would likely end up with sites similar to what we use now, opposed to the idea of using websites that society no longer finds useful on the "old" internet. Starting with informational databases sharing data for the consumer's benefit, and evolving to what is currently most popular: Social Media and advertising. The biggest problem with doing so would be convincing people that your internet is better in some way to the current connection provided by their local service provider. The largest fault to your connection likely being that it doesn't have everything the "old" internet has, yet. But it all circles back to the question of: why? Why would you want to go through all that trouble to create something that is lacking in current content for the hope it would evolve to something that we already have? (Not that I wouldn't be on board with establishing a multitap system for connection to both the "Old" and "New" Internets, I simply find the circumstance unlikely.)
[–]bizbunch 2 points 4 years ago
Look at the alternet they are building in Athens
[–]NotPromKing 2 points 4 years ago
Yes, they're called WANs (Wide Area Network) and there are already many such "internets." The U.S. military (and likely most other militaries), large corporations, and educational and research institutions all have private networks that are functionally similar to, but separate from the public Internet. One of the larger and faster "alternative" networks is the Internet2, which is comprised of research institutions and universities. When I was a student from '98-'03, I could transfer a CD's worth of data cross-country in well under a minute. I'm sure it's much faster now.
Now, if you're asking about a new Internet that would functionally replace the current Internet as we know it, well.. That's complicated, and depends on why you're asking.
From a technical perspective, it's easy - expensive, but easy. All I have to do is call up e.g. AT&T and say "Hey, I'd like to connect my building in NYC to my buddy's building in San Francisco and to his buddy's building in Houston." AT&T will setup private virtual circuits in which data between the buildings are sent using shared fiber optic connections. By shared I mean that the same fiber optic cable will carry data from not just your building, but maybe also the church across the street and the porn studio down the block, if they too had private virtual circuits between NYC and SF.
With sufficient sums of money, you can call AT&T and order leased lines.[A] In this case, AT&T will literally connect a series of cables between your building in NYC and the building in SF. That cable will contain your data and only your data.
Repeat a combination of the above two very common procedures enough times, get all your friends on that network, and eventually you will have a replacement internet.
But, suppose the reason you want a new internet is because you don't trust that the current Internet is safe or private. You don't trust that the NSA isn't recording everything you do online. Well, then it becomes a question of paranoia and who you can and can't trust. As long as your backbone connections - whether to the public Internet or your private leased lines - are going through AT&T and Verizon and such, and as long as you can't trust that AT&T and Verizon aren't in cohorts with the NSA... In otherwords, you can't trust anyone... Well, then your only option is to get a backhoe and start digging a really long trench between NYC and SF and Houston.
[A] The term "leased line" is often used even when referring to what are really virtual circuits. I'm using it here in the strictest literal sense.
[–]Toger 1 point 4 years ago
It seems like ubiquitous IPSEC would mitigate the AT&T/Verizon issue.
[–]NotPromKing 0 points 4 years ago
Only if you don't believe the NSA will soon, or has already, broken most commonly used encryption algorithms. Even where unbroken encryption is in place, that only helps as long as the NSA doesn't have a copy of the private keys.
[–]Psyk60 1 point 4 years ago
Is a WAN really a separate "Internet"? Surely in nearly all cases a WAN will have a gateway to the Internet. If that gateway exists, wouldn't that make it part of the Internet? The Internet is a network of networks. If your network is connected to it, it becomes part of that network of networks.
I agree that if you had a large scale WAN with no connection to the wider Internet, perhaps you could call that a separate Internet in its own right. But I don't think many organisations who operate their own WAN would find that very useful.
[–]SirensToGo 1 point 4 years ago
The computer on your home network talk to each other. If you unplug your router, you have your very own 'new ' Internet.
[–]NotPromKing 1 point 4 years ago
If you unplug your router, you only have one network - a LAN (Local Area Network). In order to have an internet you need multiple LANs connected together.
[–]xtxylophone 1 point 4 years ago
50 meter Ethernet cable to your neighbours house. Boom! Instant internet.
[–]UNSCGladiator 1 point 4 years ago
Well yes, all you have to do is connect end devices(computer) to switches, switches to routers(modems are basically switches and routers combined) and those routers to other routers(another network of a computer to the modem). This creates an Internetwork(Internet).
However I'm a novice at networking so maybe its best for someone to second guess me.
[–][deleted] -1 points 4 years ago
Tor.
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