Conversations with a German genealogist
Alfons Grunenberg <alfons_grunenberg@yahoo.com> schrieb am 12:59 Montag, 20.März 2017:
Dear Mr. Haase,
Please find enclosed some information about your ancestor Liborius Haase. If you wish some more information about your ancestors in Kreuzebra and/or Heuthen do not hesitate to contact me.
My name is Dr. Alfons Grunenberg and work on history of the communities Heuthen and Flinsberg and the parish of the former parish Heuthen and Flinsberg (today St. Gerhard in Heiligenstadt). I wrote some books and several publication about the villages. (He supplied me with the transcript of Liborius and Dorothea marriage shown on the "Relatives from Huethen and Kreuzebra" page)
Best regards,
Alfons Grunenberg
Alfons Grunenberg <alfons_grunenberg@yahoo.com> Mar 20 at 6:12 PM
To Wayne Haase
Dear Dr. Grunenberg
I can't thank you enough for the information you have graciously provided on my ancestors. I have been searching myself, for 10 years, my family for over 40 years, for confirmation and documentation on Liborius's ancestral home. The certificate you sent of Liborius and Dorothea's marriage does both. Also, thank you for the information on their parents and grandparents, even though the some of the causes of death are very sad. Was there a famine in 1852 that both Casper and Anna Haase starved that year?
The Eichsfeld region was traditionally a poor region. Inhabitants lived from production of wool and they manufactured clothes. And they are farmers, but the farmland is very poor and temperature is low (109 days frost per year!). Around 1850 weather was very, very bad. And the industrial revolution in England began. Machines could produce much more clothes than the people on the Eichsfeld make by hand. And in 1850 a Cholera epidemic killed thousands of the people.
To that end, I would appreciate any additional facts about the Haase and/or Diegmann families you have available to you. I will do that, but it needs time, because I expect a lot of generations can be found.(Dr. Grunenberg spent many hours, and over 2 weeks supplying me with information)
You mentioned that the church records go back to the early 1600's. I would like to have copies of all the books and articles you have written, regarding the Heuthen, Kreuzebra area, to understand the kind of conditions my family endured during their lifetimes, but, in that I am unable to read the German language, I have a problem. We will find a solution for the translation. have the manuscripts in digital form (word). With a google translation you will understand the sense of the articles.
A possible solution is... if they are online there are ways to translate languages if they are already in digital form. I also would like the books in hard copy, in English, if available, or German as a keepsake, and/or as reference material, seeing how they seem to include the information I have been seeking. Literature is only available in German
As you have already been more than generous with your time I am willing to compensate you for your time and am willing to pay for any material you have previously generated (books, articles). I don't do that for money, it's my hobby . It is also interesting for me, because some of my ancestors have the same name (Diegmann, Jünemann) and I think there will be some more. Are the books available in the USA? The chronic of Kreuzebra not, but of Heuthen: ISBN number 978-3-95966-012-9. (The history of the parish Heuthen, about 500 pages): Alfons Grunenberg, Uwe Schössow: Geschichte der Pfarrei Heuthen mit ihrer Filiale Flinsberg, Verlag Rockstuhl, Bad Langensalza (2015). Further I wrote more than 50 articles about local history. Publication language is German, but if I think that some of them are interesting for you we can translate it from the manuscript by Google or another translator.
Respectfully
Wayne Haase
P.S. I'm a bit curious as to why you did this for me Because we have the same history: The Eichsfeld has had two great emigration waves. The first one was around 1850 to America. I found 268 people of about 800 (Heuthen) went to America (I published it as well and Liborius and Dorothea are mentioned in the papers).The second emigration wave was around 1900 to a great industrial region in Germany (coal and steel). Its called "Ruhrgebiet" in the west of Germany at the border to the Netherlands. My ancestors left the Eichsfeld around 1900, yours about 1850. Therefore I´m a German and you are a American. A simple answer. You see there is not really a large difference between your and my interests.
Since the German-German border opened I researched for my ancestors (since about 1990). Before that it was for me (a West German) not possible to travel to East Germany. My advantage is the common language with the East Germans and the short distance of about 300 km. That makes it much more easy for me.
My suggestion is as follows: I will start with the parish books in order to find your ancestors. If you have good luck it goes back to around 1600-1700. But that needs time. First I will start with the Haase family. If I have first results, I´ll summarize it and inform you per mail. Is that OK for you?
Sorry, my English is not the very best. but I hope you can understand the meaning.
Best regards
Alfons Grunenberg
Alfons Grunenberg <alfons_grunenberg@yahoo.com> Mar 21 at 4:44 AM
To
waynehaase6@yahoo.com
Dear Wayne Haase,
Have you ever been in Germany or especially in Heuthen? If not, I will send you a link of a TV film about this village.
The film of about 30 minutes shows the life of the people at the weekend.
In order to understand it in more detail, I´ll give you a short summary:
1. An old timer hobby biker
2. Rebuilding of an old house in Heuthen
3. Sport
4. Bakery
5. Rebuilding of an old house in Heuthen
6. A farmer
7. The fire brigade of Heuthen
8. The mayor of Heuthen and I discuss old documents and in the church were Liborius married Dorothea
9. Preparation of a party by the village youth
10. Warteberg, center of Germany, 3 km from from Heuthen
11. Church and religion (you can see my book of Heuthen on the window between the children in the sacristy
Enjoy the film.Unser Dorf hat Wochenende | MDR.DE
http://www.mdr.de/mediathek/mdr-videos/c/video-54578.html
Alfons Grunenberg
Wayne Haase <waynehaase6@yahoo.com> schrieb am 19:32 Montag, 20.März 2017:
Alfons Grunenberg <alfons_grunenberg@yahoo.com> Mar 21 at 4:55 PM
To waynehaase6@yahoo.com
Dear Mr Haase,
please find my answers in your mail in red color
Thank you for the link to the 30 minute broadcast on Heuthen. My wife and I found it to be fascinating. I believe it gave us a good sense of the town and it's people and your outline was very helpful. The church in Heuthen is quite beautiful that you were showing the records in. That church itself, isn't 400 years old, is it? When was the church built? The actual church was built between 1745 and 1749. At the same place stood two other churches of 12th century and of 1483. You will find more details in the book. People say, that St. Nikolaus in Heuthen is the most beautiful church of a village in the Eichsfeld region. I think, that is true. Nobody expects such a church in such a small village.
I find that your English is actually quite good. I am having no problem at all understanding any of your correspondence. I have found your book on Amazon.com and have purchased it. Let me get back to you on the translation at a latter date. I believe it would be too much to ask, for you to give away the whole transcript, just for me to have it in English. Perhaps once I get through the book, I might ask for a translation on a page or two.
I am very happy that if we are both descendants of Diegmann and Junemann, we might also related in some way. Perhaps not by blood, but by marriage only, right now, I find that comforting.
I studied natural science and during my study I learned that children have a gene mixture of about 50:50 of the father and the mother (laugh). So the descendants of all male and female ancestors have some parts of the same blood (or better to say: the genes). But after 200-300 years only 2-3 drops in 6 liter.
I am very interested in any further information you might find, but want you to know that I realize that it does take time and appreciate your efforts.
In a first step I attached a publication from 2011: "From Heuthen to America"(separate page). You get it in the original version PDF and in digital form, word, so that you can translate it to English. In the paper is given an explanation why the people went to America and some examples are given.
Secondly you find enclosed a published "Auswanderliste" of people who left the Eichsfeld region to America. In line 19 to 22 of the list you find your ancestors: "Digmann Carl Joseph (* 1823) mit Schwestern Digmann Maria Anna (* 1836), Digmann Dorothea (*1822, oo) and Schwager Haase Liborius".
Translation: Carl Joseph Digmann (born 1823) with his sister Maria Anna Digmann (born 1836) and Dorothea Digmann (born 1822). Dorothea Digmann was married with Liborius Haase (brother-in-law of Carl Joseph Digmann).
Today I began working with the parish books of Kreuzebra. I´m absolute sure that we can go back for about 400 years. I believe, that the work will be finished next weekend.
Best regards
Alfons Grunenberg
Alfons Grunenberg <alfons_grunenberg@yahoo.com> Mar 23 at 3:26 AM
To waynehaase6@yahoo.com
Dear Mr. Haase,
I found your homepage in the internet. Congratulations! It is very interesting for me to read the "Haase story" in the view from the other side of the Atlantic. What have they done after immigration? Very, very interesting to me.
I´m absolutely sure, that the driving force for emigration from the Eichsfeld was the family Diegmann (she, her brother and her sisters emigrated). And in addition her husband Liborius Haase. And that is the point of my question to you: Are there any hints for the Diegmann family in New Coeln? I would expect, that Dorothea´s brother Karl Josef Diegmann and her two sisters also founded a family in the surrounding of New Coeln. Furthermore: In my emigration list you will find several Diegmanns. Did they all settled in New Coeln? Who was the first Diegmann in New Coeln? I believe it was not an accident that the choice of Liborius Haase and Dorothea Diegmann for New Coeln was not an accident. Settled they down there, because other members of the family already live there? I know a very similar case of the family Kruse, which is mentioned in the article "From Heuthen to America"(Carl "Diegmann" it is believed, moved to Jefferson in Monroe County, 1860 census)
I think, that your first known Haase of Kreuzebra goes back to before 1650. Please give me 2 or 3 days more till the next weekend to verify it.
PS. Hase is the German word for the animal "hare". Haase is an old writing form for Hase. Perhaps you don´t know it up to now.
Best regard
Alfons
Alfons Grunenberg <alfons_grunenberg@yahoo.com> Mar 23 at 6:12 PM
To Wayne Haase
This is exactly the type of information I was hoping for. I have a plat map (ownership of land) of the Town of Lake from 1876 of which New Coeln is a part of, and the census from 1850, and thus far have not found any Diegmann indicated. This does not yet cover the sisters of Karl married names, but Ill search Milwaukee county marriages next. Up to a few days ago, I was mistaken in Dorothea maiden name. Of the Diegmanns I have found they might have settled in western Wisconsin and/or Iowa, see attached. Sinsinawa (Grant County) is a very small town about 10 miles from Dubuque, Iowa on the Mississippi river, about 180 miles west of Milwaukee.
Christina Verbugt (born Digman) was born in 1874, in Wisconsin, to Herman J. Valentine Digman and Katharina Digmann (born Wiederholt). Herman was born on March 29 1849, in Heuthen, Thüringen, Deutschland. I can confirm this data, because I found his entry in the church book. His father was Johann Valentin Diegmann (born 1807 in Heuthen). he emigrated with his second wife Anna Margaretha (born Aureden). They emigrated on March 9th 1850 with their four children. The sister of Johann Valentin Diegmann was Margarethe Diegmann. She left the Eichsfeld with 3 children and in the US she had 3 children, too. (Heuthen chronicle, page 266). If we have good luck you will find one of them in documents of Wisconsin. I believe that the people already know the region in the US to go to before they left the Eichsfeld. In that region lived people they knew from the old world., for example people of their village or members of the family. In this context the Diegmann family is very interesting. Are there more in Wisconsin? Who was the first?
One question to you: How was it possible for foreign people who don't speak the language to find Wisconsin? They arrived New York and what do they do then? (No plane, no bus, no railway)
Katharina was born on January 18 1853, in Sinsinawa, Grant Co. Wisconsin, USA.
Christina had 9 siblings: Anton J. Digmann, August Joseph Digmann and 7 other siblings
Christina married Herburt Verbugt was born in February 1870, in Niederlande. (Netherlands)
They had 7 children: Cecilia Verbugt, Francis W. Verbugt and 5 other children.
Christina passed away in 1916, at age 41 at https://www.myheritage.com/names/christina_digmann#
Speaking of "From Heuthen to America" I would like your permission to include your article in my website You are absolutely free to work with my papers, including using it for your homepage. To avoid potential problems with the publisher please add the source:Eichsfelder Heimatzeitschrift 55 (2011) p. 89-92.
That´s all. Our whole life based on free exchange of information and has an advantage for all.
I will remove it, if you do not agree. I think it would help my family understand the motivations of the families that emigrated. It is intended for my relation to understand their roots, and really not for the general public. I am pleased that you found it interesting.
The few times I have visited Germany, most locals responded to my last name with the word bunny. I was not aware that the spelling change was due to old Germanic writing.
Thank You Wayne
Best regards Alfons
Dear Wayne,
Interesting route to travel by boat. I never thought about this possibility. Probably they took the cheapest way. To go to America costed the money they earned in one year.
But we have to take another thing into account. The immigrants came from a village of 800-1000 inhabitants. They were absolutely not familiar with towns or large cities. I told you that around 1900 the emigrants from the Eichsfeld went to the Ruhrgebiet (western Germany) in order to work in the iron and steel industry. They were unable to rent a room to live or to find a work. They were not familiar to organizing their lives in the large industry towns of the Ruhrgebiet. Therefore they founded Eichsfeld clubs in the different cities. This clubs helped people form the Eichsfeld to find a job and a room. There exists more than 100 clubs in Germany, even one Eichsfeld club in the US. If I remember right it was in Kansas, but I´m not sure.
How did such people feel in New York? And how did they organize the travel to Wisconsin?
In the moment, I believe that it was as follows: In the capital of the Eichsfeld named Heiligenstadt were agencies ( I remember Hapag-Lloyd and the ship line Hamburg-America. There may be others) for people who wanted to emigrate. The travel was well organized. In the parish archive of Heuthen I found an example how it works (page 265 of the Heuthen book) . A horse and cart picked them up from their village. They drove to Hanoverian-Münden, a small town at the river Werra. With a ship they reached Bremen, which is also at the Werra. Then they go across the ocean.
Perhaps the agency has had a bureau (or something else) at the harbor of destination. Is it possible that they had an arranged journey from the harbor to Wisconsin in the same way they had in Germany? I can't believe that they organized the travel by themselves. May be that I´m wrong: to err is human.(this is probably the way the Liborius family traveled in 1854)
Tomorrow I will finish the work on the ancestors of Liborius. It is a hard work, because I really found a lot of persons. I´m a little bit jealous. My oldest known male ancestor was born in 1765. But yours ... you will see it tomorrow.
Parallel I began with Dorothea's ancestors. It´s amazing to think that this is possible. Unbelievable!
Alfons
Alfons Grunenberg <alfons_grunenberg@yahoo.com> Mar 25 at 4:12 AM
To Wayne Haase
Dear Wayne,
Enclosed you will find the ancestors of Liborius Haase (PDF and Word-file) and the three Diegmann families (word-file), who emigrated from Heuthen to America.( page in this website)
Have a nice weekend
Alfons
Alfons Grunenberg <alfons_grunenberg@yahoo.com> Today at 9:31 AM
To Wayne Haase
Dear Wayne,
Can you please confirm or deny that in your email "Immigration of Diegmann families from Heuthen to America" that Valentin and Dorothea, Karl,and Maria are brothers and sisters and, if so, what is the relationship of the 4 in the third family, Anna, Maria, Johann, Johannes, still siblings?
Johann Valentin Diegmann (* 1807 Family I) and your ancestor Dorothea Diegmann (* 1822, Family II) have the same grandfather: Urban Diegmann (1747-1827). Family I and II have the same great-great-grandfather as family III (Werner Diegmann (1666-1766). So, there is a relationship of all three families. Family I and II relative close over 2 generations (same grandfather) Family I and II over 4 generations compared with Family III. (therefore the large "Digman" family, of Grant County Wisconsin of which Valentin is the Wisconsin founder, is related 2 generations removed from Dorothea Haase)
In your previous emails, you mention that you are related to the Diegmann and Junemann families. Is there, at some point, where we, are in any way, related, like 5th or 6th cousins? The above mentioned Werner Diegmann (1666-1746) is our common ancestor, also his wife Dorothea Flucke (1666-1732).
Also our common ancestors are:
- Johannes Löffelholz (1639-1707) and his wife Catharina Große (1643-1712)(11 generations back, by my calculations)
- Liborius Heinemann, Hey (1605-1684) and his wife Ilse N. (1605-1635)
- Christian Stitz (1628-1712) and his wife Maria N. (1630-1684)
I will remark our common ancestors in the list of Dorothea Diegmann you will get in the next few days.
From the dates of birth you can see that the ancestors of Dorothea Diegmann go farther back than of Liborius Haase (born 1633). I hope that I can go down (before???) to the magic year 1618 in one or two more lines as you see it for Liborius Heinemann and his wife Ilse (*1605!!!). That is very, very seldom in central Europe! Nearly all church books were destroyed or burned in the 30-jährigen Krieg (1618-1648)(a 30 year war, with various causes). I'm still working on your oldest ancestors. There are several aspects, which make is very complicated. I will do my very best.
so long,
Alfons
From: Alfons Grunenberg <alfons_grunenberg@yahoo.com>
To: Wayne Haase <waynehaase6@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 2:01 PM
Subject: My interests (and the grave of my "uncle John 1884-1964)
Dear Wayne,
The homepage you mentioned in your last email is exactly what, I'm looking for. You asked me, what I'm interested in.3 or 4 times per year American's ask in Heuthen for their ancestors or make a visit on the Eichsfeld. Some of them write to the parish others to the mayor or direct to me. All questions come on my desk, laugh. Relatively often, I can´t help the questioner, because the "interface" emigration /immigration cannot be bridged. And the homepage you mentioned, shows date of both side of the ocean. Really great!
My knowledge of the history of immigration to the US is very limited. Therefore I am interested in the question, why they left Europe, and were they settled down in America. I think that there are centers of Germans (or people of the Eichsfeld). But where? Wisconsin is one! Not only in Milwaukee, but in the state.
By the way: The page find-a-grave is very, very comfortable. Two clicks and I found the brother of my grandfather: My "Onkel Johann" (Uncle John). He lived in the near of Detroit (Bingham) and has had a dramatic death on the Erie-sea. He was a hobby ice fisher and he drove with 15 persons on the sea by cars. In the afternoon they saw, that the ice has broken and they drift away. The men were saved by a helicopter. And while my uncle John was saved he had a heart attack and died at 80 years. All the newspapers had reports on page 1 of the saved ice fishers. I´m happy to have photocopies.
When uncle John died, I was 10 years old. It was absolutely unbelievable for me that cars can drive on a sea. I never have seen such great seas before and I thought, that the adults don´t tell the truth. But after a few days we played as children "Ice fisher on the Erie sea". ( Lake Erie)
I have a few things to do on the list of the ancestors of Dorothea Diegmann and tomorrow you will get it.
Alfons
Alfons Grunenberg <alfons_grunenberg@yahoo.com> Today at 9:02 AM
To Wayne Haase
Dear Wayne,
Thank you very, very much for the literature dealing with immigration to Wisconsin. In future I will try to understand the background stories of the people who left the old world in order to start a new life.
Burial of Ilse N.
You are absolutely right. The date of burial of Ilse N. (#73) is wrong. 21.01.1635 is the burial date of her oldest son! It was late in the evening and I found her name in the parish book. But I didn't read the whole text. Sorry for that. The correct data is []12.08.1678 Heuthen.
Hey/Heinemann
Indeed the names of Hey and Heinemann are confusing. The whole story is as follows:
The original name was Hey in the 16th century. Due to several "Hans (Johann) Hey" the priest decided on 4th of September 1620 to use so called "alias"-names: Lorenz and Heinemann. Heinemann is a nickname of "Heinrich" (Henry). He wrote in the parish book Hey alias Heinemann to distinct the different Hans Hey. The following priests sometimes used Hey or Heinemann, depending of the necessity of distinction of different persons. Today live in Heuthen persons with the name Heinemann and Hey. Since 1874 it was in Germany not anymore possible to use two names for one person. There was made a decision Hey or Heinemann. All persons in Heuthen with the name Heinemann have an ancestor with the name Hey (before 1620). But all Hey have always ancestors with the name Hey (see footnote 1175 in the Heuthen chonicle).
Names of Diegmann and Heuthen
By the way: in the footnote 1171 on the same page you find for Diegmann: Digman(n), Teichman(n), Tichman(n), Dichman(n), Deichman(n). To avoid confusion I always use the today common writing. The priest wrote in past the name how it sounds. In the Heuthen dialect "t" sounds like "d". The origin of the name Heuthen comes from "Heide" ( heath-land). Details in the chronic of page 337-339.
Pictures from the parish books
Enclosed you find some pictures from the parish books(separate page).
Next steps
I will look look on your homepage, because the translator translates "everything" even the names of persons: I remember that the priest "Rheinländer" was translated to Rhineland. That's a correct translation, but it is not his name. Also Spoonwood (or similar) is the name Löffelholz. Then I will finish and you can ask me questions or details of ask for copies, and so on.
Alfons
Copies of entries of your Ancestors
1. Marriage of Liborius Haase and Dorothea Diegmann in Heuthen. The source and the head of the church books columns are given in my transcription of the entry
2. Death of the oldest Diegmann ancestor (Georg)The entry is in Latin language. Under the year 1709:
*7 May obit in Domino rite praemunitas georgius Teichman annorum circita 80“
"On the 7th of May died in the Lord and given all sacraments Georgius Teichmann about circa 80“
Remarks: Teichman is the written form of the name Diegmann at that time. He died in the age of 80 years. So he was born about 1629.
3. Oldest entry of your ancestors: Military list of 1599 of Nikolaus Große
"Clauß Grosen ein Ackerman zimlich begütert 34-Jarig, ein Rottmeister, hat ein langkrohr undt eine Seitwehr.“
"Nikolaus Groß, a farmer, quite propertied, 34 years old, cavalry captain, has a gun and a Seitwehr.“
Remark: The text is written in old German language. Langkrohr (gun) and Seitwehr (I don´t know what that is) are weapons. From the given age we can calculate, that he was born in 1565
Ilse N; Hey/Heinemann; pictures; next steps
People
Alfons Grunenberg <alfons_grunenberg@yahoo.com> Mar 31 at 11:32 AM
To Wayne Haase
Dear Wayne,
I have had a look on your homepage and saw that the internet translator makes some mistakes. Especially if there are some words in "old German language or very special words. I tried to correct it, but you know that my English is not the very best. Please decide on the basis of my corrections the best wording for your homepage. I am ready with the documents, I want to give to you. Now it is time for answering open questions.
Have a nice weekend
Alfons
Presentation from 2004 about Löffelholz People
Alfons Grunenberg <alfons_grunenberg@yahoo.com> Mar 31 at 4:36 PM
To Wayne Haase
Dear Wayne,
Just now I found my presentation about the origin of the Löffelholz family (800 A. C.) in Franken (now North Bavaria). I hope that you understand the sense of the presentation, even in German. More details and explanation of the story you will find in the Heuthen chronic on page 256-258.
Alfons
Alfons Grunenberg <alfons_grunenberg@yahoo.com> Today at 8:40 AM
To Wayne Haase
Dear Alfons
Your corrections are very much appreciated and my website has been corrected, almost verbatim, per your instructions, except in a phrasing or two. I would like to apologize for the fact, that as of now, I can not properly spell all the names. As my keyboard will not allow me to insert the dots over vowels (umlaut), the ss sound (it looks like a fancy B). I will correct them, when I find a way to do it.
It is not necessary to use "Umlauts", even in Germany! You can use "oe" for "ö", "ae" for "ä" and "ue" for "ü". It is absolute correct, so you can avoid to use special German characters. The name of my wife is Keßler. When she traveled in the US she always has had problems with her name. Everybody said KEBLER. Therefore she writes Kessler. It is not allowed in Germany in official documents, but she does it. To use "ss" for "ß" is absolutely ok and correct. There is no difference.
The information on which towns were affected by the tornado in 1866 in Minnesota was from a newspaper from St Cloud's archives. I believe correct names of the towns are Rice and Sauk Rapids. Your corrections, I believe, make for a far easier and obviously more accurate, read. Speaking of your article, would it be fair to say that some of the people you mention; I have the name from an old article published at 1866 on the Eichsfeld. The people don´t know English and they wrote it like it sounds. It was presumably wrong in the Eichsfeld newspaper.
Johann Hey*1840, Maria Jünemann*1836, Johannes Löffelholz*1836, Carl Kruse*1845, and Heinrich Kruse*1817 (all surnames in my ancestor lists) are probably, or possibly, relations of Liborius or Dorothea Haase? Perhaps, only by marriage, but at least they are distant cousins, maybe 2 or 3 generations removed. I would like to tie the article closer to my family members and make it more personal to them by making a notation of the possibility, at the end of the article... if that is OK with you.I will check the relationship in the parish books and will tell you the results.
On the Marriage certificate Liborius profession is teaser after translation, kammer before, could you translate it for me? I come up with chamber which doesn't make sense
I found the translation in a dictionary. Maybe that the translation is wrong. It is better to explain it: The verb of Kämmer is kämmen. The translation is to comb, for example hairs. If there is an English word like COMBER, that would be correct. I don't know whether there exists such a word or not. The profession was "to comb wool". Is it possible to use "comber" or does nobody understand that in English?
Did either Liborius or Dorothea have any siblings and if so, are you aware of any of them emigrating or perhaps their descendants are still in the area? I will check it in the church books
Is the Rev. Christoph Gunter Haase, in anyway, a relation of Liborius?
No, the name Haase exists in several villages of the Eichsfeld. Rev. Günter Christoph Haase was born in Hohengandern, about 10 miles in the west of Kreuzebra. I have also an ancestor named Haase, who live in Kefferhausen (in the Haase mill) , about 3 miles in the southeast of Kreuzebra. "Your" Haase" has lived always in Kreuzebra back to about 1630. It is possible to have the same ancestors, but not in the past 400 years.
I do not receive the "Huethen" book for another week or so. I might in the future ask for a translation or two ...if that is fine with you. I am looking forward to see the heritage on the Loffelholz family that goes back centuries.
My wife told me not to ask this question, because you will think I am crazy, and stop corresponding with me, but; laugh: there does not exist any crazy questions.
Is possible that Nikolaus "Clauss" Grosse (*1565) is the original St Nick of Christmas folklore referring to his nickname that might have been Santa Claus? I have 13 grandchildren and 8 great grand kids and I would love to be able to tell them I'm related to Santa Claus.
Claus or Klaus is a very common abbreviation of Nikolaus, like Don for Donald in the US for example. The first name Nikolaus is very popular in Heuthen, because the church in the village is called "St. Nikolaus-Kirche". The first church in Heuthen goes back to the 12th or 13th century and was ever named St. Nikolaus. St. Nikolaus was the patron of the merchants at that time (page 81 of the chronicle). Many of the children in Heuthen get this name, because it was the name of the church patron.
Sorry, it is another way round: First came Santa Claus (or St. Nikolaus), then the name of the church, and then the name of the children. BUT! Since about 800 years the children love Santa Claus in Heuthen. Every year on the 6th of December the children celebrate in the "Santa Claus"church and "Santa Claus" comes ALIVE(!!!) in the church. In 2014 I have seen it in reality! A great celebration. All children are very, very happy.
You can tell your descendants: Every year Santa Claus comes first to the church and the children of Heuthen and due to the time lag, 6 hours later to Milwaukee! And 500 years ago one of the children was your Claus Große. Is that a story?
But more seriously for adults: in the St. Nikolaus church a sculpture of him from the 15. century (page 106 in the chronic). Claus Große has seen it!!!! In Heuthen exists a club with his name. I attach the picture of the old sculpture from the 15th century and the logo of the Nikolaus club.
Once again I would like to thank you for your time, generosity, and precision in all the information you have provided. If there is anything you think I might be able to help you with in your endeavors, please do not hesitate to ask.
Alfons
Two open questions
Alfons Grunenberg <alfons_grunenberg@yahoo.com> Today at 9:54 AM
To Wayne Haase
Dear Wayne,
I left two open questions:
1. Johann Hey*1840, Maria Jünemann*1836, Johannes Löffelholz*1836, Carl Kruse*1845, and Heinrich Kruse*1817 (all surnames in my ancestor lists) are probably, or possibly, relations of Liborius or Dorothea Haase? The surnames Hey , Jünemann, and Kruse are the most common names in Heuthen. It may be possible that they are related, but it is not necessary. It is very difficult for me to evaluate it from the church books, because on every page each name is written a few times.
All Loffelholz have one common ancestor in Heuthen: Joachim Löffelholz who arrived about 1620 in Heuthen as a shepherd. "Your" Loffelholz and the emigrated Loffelholz are related, without any doubts.
2. Did either Liborius or Dorothea have any siblings and if so, are you aware of any of them emigrating or perhaps their descendants are still in the area?
Up to now nobody has evaluated the emigrants of Kreuzebra. Therefore I can´t answer the question.
Dorothea went with her husband and her siblings to the US. I already listed the Diegmann emigrants.
Liborius Haase had 10 brothers and sisters:
Johannes Karl Josef, Maria Elisabeth, Johannes Heinrich, Karl, Maria Anna, Maria Christina, Maria Dorothea, Maria Anna and Johann Franz died in Kreuzebra. Only one brother (Johannes Franz, born in 1814) he did not die in Kreuzebra. I don't know where, perhaps in the area of Kreuzebra. As I already mentioned I believe that the driving force of emigration was the Diegmann family and not the Haase family. Liborius emigrated because he was married with Dorothea Diegmann. Perhaps he lived a few years in Heuthen after he had married. All other Haases lived and died in Kreuzebra.
Cheers,
Alfons