Letters
HOW IT ALL STARTED:
Apple scrumpers want tree information (Letter to the local paper)
by Pip Taylor
04/05/2007
DURING the last war my father used to buy bags of Doddin apples from the local grocers. These were small, sweet, bite-sized apples you ate whole.
My friend and I used to scrump some from a tree in Heathfield Road, Webheath, but I've not been able to locate that tree.
It was a rather small and slow growing bush rather than a tree.
I've been trying to locate a specimen, so I e-mailed the National Apple Collection at Brogdale, but they've never heard of it and suggested it's probably a local variety.
Perhaps a reader of The Standard might know of a specimen still growing locally?
Pip Taylor.
Southcrest.
The first reply and many more to follow. (The following emails are on 4th May ‘07:)
Hi Pip (a real name?) and Jacky
I have recently transplanted a Doddin tree sapling from my garden in Mount Pleasant to an allotment in Lodge Park.
As a boy I frequently bought a pennyworth of doddins from Noah Gardeners shop which stood when Headless Cross Green is now.
Although I am widely travelled I have never come across anyone outside Headless Cross who has ever heard of them.
Best wishes
Colin
Reply:
Thanks for emailing me Colin. It does look like the Doddin is a local apple. The national collection doesn't even recognise the description so perhaps yours is one of the few left. I have received an email from the neighbour of the Doddin tree in Heathfield road and it's still there and still bearing fruit.
Do you think the Doddin you have is grafted onto a root stock at all? My Dad reckons it grew on its own root stock. In any case do you think I could take a cutting? Although a Grower by trade I've never known of someone taking a cutting from an apple before. I've never been that good at grafting though!
Pip.
The last doddin tree I saw was in the allotments the back of St George’s Church, now under the ring road. It belonged to E Richmond from the fish shop in Alcester St. my granddad, it’s going to involve a lot of digging me old mate.
Woggy.
Pip, have just read your letter in The Standard, Friday May 4th. I live in Heathfield Road and my friend and neighbour, Betty has a very old Doddin tree in her back garden. She inherited the tree off the previous house owner, Mrs Mary Gibbs who sadly died recently in a local nursing home. She had told Betty about the tree. I think it may need a prune if you are in the know, Betty isn’t the best of gardeners but she does try, she has just painted her picket fence and she is really proud of herself.
You are most welcome to call round, I am not the best at retrieving my emails regularly!
Regards Vikki
My reply:
Hi Vikki,
Thanks for the reply. Great to hear that the tree is still there! I remember Mr and Mrs. Gibbs and this must have been the tree we lads used to scrump! My Dad came up today for a walk around his childhood haunts and I took some photos for his Memoirs of growing up in wartime Redditch. I intended to phone you and ask if we could come and see you but, as you probably know, we had a power cut and I couldn't access my emails. My Dad went home before I could find your phone number. I'd love to come and see the tree and I am a Grower by trade but rather rusty on fruit trees. I used to prune apples and would be happy to give advice or even prune it for your neighbour. I'd like to be able to take a cutting if possible too.
Next emails 6th May:
I do remember the Dodin and indeed my sister (Joy F) has told me we used to buy these apples from a Charlie Browning. Charlie lived 3 doors up from the post office which was next door to Jack & ruby Gardner, he sold these apples for 6 pence a bag. Charlie in turn used to get them from a Mrs Pollard half way down Church Road on the left (it is now a garage) Mrs Pollard was a nice but strange lady who somewhat looked like a witch with a pointed nose and she wore sacks for clothing. I indeed used to deliver her papers and she used to pay me in 3d pieces which she used to hide under the table cloth. I do not know if these trees are still there but wish you the best of luck in your search
Bob F.
Hi Pip,
I was interested to read your letter to the Standard because I too remember as a young boy in the Fifties eating Doddins. The tree was behind the butcher's shop in Beoley road. It belonged to Sid Long, his grandson lives at Beoley Mill not far from the Arrow Valley lake. I think it is likely that it is a local variety and it would be good to track down any remaining trees. Let me know if you have any success.
On my ramblings around Redditch I have sampled similar looking apples only to find a sour flavour not at all like the Doddin which as you mentioned was sweet and full of flavour.
All the best Bob B.
Hello there pip, please ring 01527 ****** for info on the location of a doddin apple tree!
I rang the number and had a good chat with Richard:
Hi Pip,
Saw your letter in the standard, my Grandad used to have doddins in his garden in Bridley Moor Road - I will speak to my older relations to see if anyone knows of another name for Doddins - perhaps this will help.
your letter really did bring back fond memories of visiting my grandparents in the 1960s- they had chickens (also a thing of the past in the main) and we were always picking up and eating Doddins!!!!
will let you know if I find anything out.
Best wishes,
Leigh W.
Next Email 7th May:
Hi Pip and Jacky
I was intrigued to learn of your interest in the Doddin. My 3 siblings and I often reminisce about this deliciously sweet little apple. The only doddin tree we knew of was in Prospect Road (off Beoley Road) and sadly the tree has long disappeared under a new road. My husband (also Pip) enjoyed the delights of the Doddin when he visited friends in Jubilee Avenue but again I am talking 50 years ago! It's possible the tree is still there but doubtful.
I have discussed the virtues of the doddin with many people but it is only Redditch folk who seem to have heard of it. I wonder if it is known by another name outside this area?
If you think I may be of assistance to you please do not hesitate in contacting me, also if you make a major break
through I would be delighted to hear.
Kind regards,
Ros C.
We do have a doddin tree/bush in our garden. It looks very old and in poor condition as it was in the middle of a box tree,which we have recently cleared. The branches at the top have flowered and apples are forming. Incidentally, is this the Pip Taylor who knew my brother Harry (M)?
My reply is that Pip is probably my uncle, my Dad’s brother. Next two emails on the 8th May. First came from Brenda B:
My aunt pronounces the tree Daddin tree although as children we all said Doddin, the last two houses that my aunt has owned has had a doddin tree, and yes we still have one, with the small funny shaped sweet little apples. Hope this helps, and of course you can have a bag of them for a penny!!! that is when they are in season and if the squirrels have not eaten them all.
Next on the 8th:
Dear Pip,
You have probably had loads of response to your letter in the Standard about the Doddin apple tree. I was given a sapling by a friend who had been given two by a friend of theirs. Until then I had never heard of that variety of apple. That was three years ago and last year we picked our first apples, delicious as you said ! This year the bull finches have had all the blossom but one small group, so we are very disappointed.
I have checked in old books looking for the Doddin but it isn't there, so it must be a local variety. If you have any information sent to you I would love to hear about it.
Regard,
Elisabeth A.
Hi Pip
Interesting result. I have been referred to a letter published in Fruit News, the Brogdale friends
newsletter of winter 2001. It is from a Mr Ron G of Northwich Cheshire who says that his
mother has a 25 year old doddin tree in her garden at Webheath Redditch. He asked if anyone knew of
the variety.
There were no replies to this. He described the apple as like a sweet crab apple which becomes
yellow after picking.
The editor of the newletter Joan Morgan, now has a new website devoted to fruit subjects. Her site
is www.fruitforum,net
The New Book of Apples is by Joan Morgan and Alison Richards in which all of the National Collection
apples are described.
One of your correspondents, Colin, talks of a sapling. If it was grown from a pip it will not be a
true Doddin and normally apples do not grow from cuttings, they have to be grafted to get a true
copy.
I am not in a position to advise about obtaining material for the collection. Normally there is
reluctance to add varieties which are not fully described in the old literature. This question
would have to be asked of the curator who is a member of the University of London at Wye. On the
Brogdale website the contact details are given at the bottom of the page which comes up if you click
on National Fruit Collection.
phone 01795 ------ (not friday) or email ------
There is some interesting information on their website where there is mention of a database of
collections of apples in the uk which are not in the national collection. See under Policy on
I hope this helps
Derek Rye for Brogdale Friends
Helpline Volunteer
I shall be following up this email shortly. Next emails 9th May:
I saw your letter in the Standard. You're not imagining it about Doddins, we used to have a bag full of these apples given to us by a neighbour who had an allotment down 'The Rough' at Headless Cross, unfortunately these allotments were built upon in the 1960's now the Vaynor estate. Sorry I don't know of any existing trees, and no one seems to have heard of them anymore. Brian S.
Hi
I read your write up in the Standard with great interest. I lived in Webheath in 1950 and can remember the Doddin very well by where I got them from I can not remember, the only Doddin tree/brush out side Webheath was at Holberrow Green. I have a friend who lives down Heathfield Road and he to knows of the Doddin but not where it was.
You say The Apple Collection at Brogdale do not know of it. Just say the name Doddin is not a type of apple but a apple that came from an orchard owned by a person with the name Doddin, Dobin or the like and over time these apples were known as Doddins its just a thought.
If you do come up with anything I would be very interested to know.
Regards
Tony J.
My dad has asked me to email you as he saw your article in last weeks Redditch Standard and he has a doddin tree at the bottom of his garden in Astwood Bank.
He would like to chat to you and have asked if you could please contact him.
His name is Richard P. and the telephone number is 01527 ******.
If there is no answer please leave a message on the answer phone with your contact number and he will call you back.
Many thanks,
Melissa P.
I rang Richard and had a good chat. Next emails 11th May:
Hi Pip
I read with interest your letter on Doddins apples
My late Gran had a Doddin apple tree in her garden again in Webheath, and as kids we used to have a large bag of these apples, as you said they were sweet and perfect for kids
I have mentioned the Doddin apple to friends over the years but no one else has ever seemed to have heard of them, so was great to read your letter even if only for my own sanity..
I suspect the tree in Crumfields lane has now long been felled.
I hope you are susses full in your quest for one of these trees
Kind regards
Dave S.
I think I went to school with is sister Debbie.
Although I now live in Cumbria, I am a Redditch native. My sister, who still lives in Redditch, sent me a cutting of your letter in the Standard as we were recently reminiscing about doddins.
When we were children we lived in Sillins Avenue and we also scrumped (although the local version of the term was 'scromp') doddins. On reflection, I had thought that it was a generic name for any small scromped apples. I certainly remember several different varieties - some very sweet, some very bitter (possibly small cooking apples) and one that had a long oval shape - but I only remember the one name, doddin. My mother, who's maiden name was Hemming (i.e. old Redditch/Studley needle workers going way back) and lived all her life in the Beoley Road/Sillins Avenue area, used the term in a more derogatory way but this may have been an attempt to stop us from scromping.
"Look Mam, I've got some apples!".
"Ah, they'm only doddins. Don't eat many of um cus they'll make you bad"
However, your reference to your father buying doddins has cast doubt on my theory and maybe they were a specific local variety after all. My sister thinks that the name refers to a single type that grew in the area. The trees that I knew grew in the allotments behind Sillins Avenue and Farm Road but I understand that the area is being redeveloped. My sister tells me that the only other doddin tree she knew was in a garden next to the opening to the east, half way up Sillins Avenue. Whether it is still there or whether it is the same doddin you knew, I cannot say.
There used to be thousands of apple varieties, often with very local distribution, who's names may have differed with locality.
Another organisation that you might wish to approach for information is Common Ground who campaign for the conservation of traditional orchards and apple varieties.
http://www.commonground.org.uk/
I hope that this has been of some interest to you and I would like to hear more if you find anything.
You do realise that if you find a the doddins you will need to scromp them to get the full flavour.
Regards,
David H.
I shall be following up this lead.
Hi.
Have read your recent letter in the Standard re Doddins. Well we don't know how they got that name, but certainly agree that the taste was great! The tree in my Mother's garden apparently came from some allotments in Headless Cross and is now ancient (at least 50 years since it was transplanted!) In my childhood over 30 years ago, we picked them by the bagful and used to be able to give loads away to family and friends. The fruit unfortunately only had a short life. Once the wind knocked them off the tree or they fell off due to sheer numbers on each branch, grubs got in and the doddin was quickly wasted. But a freshly picked doddin was delicious and should be enjoyed today. Kids would love them!
Which brings me to Mum's tree. Although some of the original tree has died, there is new growth and it still bears some fruit. You would be most welcome to call and take a look and if you're green-fingered take a cutting - although how successful you would be we have no idea. It's a shame the National Apple Collection has never heard of it. Maybe it is just known by a different name - 'doddin' does sound a bit 'local' doesn't it! But if it is dying out, we should certainly try to save it from extinction!
Don't know if you've had any other replies, but if you would like to get in touch, please telephone on: (01527) ----------. We are in Crabbs Cross.
Regards,
Anne P.
Email 13th May:
Hi Pip and Jacky,
I read your letter in "The Standard" about Doddin Apples, it reminded me of a conversation I had last Summer with some friends who have a tree in their garden. They have given me permission to pass on their telephone number so that you can contact them yourself.
Mr & Mrs H. 01527 *****
Don't get too excited, there was no blossom on the tree this year.
Best wishes and Good luck with your search.
Val P.
My reply to Val:
I'm not too sure on making cuttings from apples. It's not the usual
way and growing from seed is a definite no-no. The best way is to bud
or graft onto a suitable rootstock during the winter months. (I
attended Pershore College of Horticulture and my budding/grafting
skills were the worst in the class!) The varieties of apples we have
today are all grafted or budded onto a rootstock which will impart
it's characteristics into the grafted specimen. If the variety (for
example the Bramley) is very vigourous then it's usually grafted onto
a dwarfing rootstock. As far as I'm aware the Doddin has been
perpetuated by people taking suckers or cuttings and growing it on
it's own rootstock. If this is so than it appears to do well on it's
own roots and creates a tree that grown no more than about 15'.
I've taken some cuttings from our "scrumping" tree (my friend and I
visited the tree today) and cut then down to size before dipping them
in hard wood rooting powder. I've added the photos here for you.
Good luck with your cuttings and perhaps I may take advise from
another contact and start the "Doddin Preservation Society"!
A letter in The Standard 19th May
I have two Doddins
by
14/05/2007
IT WAS with interest that I read about Pip Taylor's search for a Doddin tree - for I have two!
Brogdale were right when they implied it was probably a local variety as I have taken a few over the years to Evesham and even my market garden pals couldn't put a name to it.
They fruit exceptionally early, late June at times, and I have a substantial crop each year as they are not biennial cropping as many apples are.
They are pruned, never heavily, and receive two feeds of a phosphate and potash fertiliser.
There are very few known trees about now and Mr Taylor may well like to take a graft or a root sucker at the end of this season's fruiting.
I certainly want to perpetuate the variety and I may invite fruit growers to take as many strikes as they can reasonably cut out for this end.
Mr Taylor can contact me on 01527 ******or 07790 ***** and I will arrange for him to see the trees. He is not far away from them at Southcrest.
Paul Dyson
Brockhill
My letter to The Standard 17th May.
Dear Editor,
May I thank you for publishing my email in your letters column regarding my hunt for The Doddin apple and all those that replied. I had a huge, and almost overwhelming, response.
My friend and I, Grant Petford, (who's been looking for a Doddin for years) visited the Doddin tree we used to scrump (or scromp as I have been told is the true local word for stealing apples) and took some cuttings with hope of success. Much thanks to Betty for letting us visit the old tree and have our photos taken as well as some cuttings.
It looks as though the Doddin is local to Redditch and is well known by the residents of the old Redditch but unheard of outside of the area and is little known by anyone below middle age. I, like other enthusiasts, would like to increase the numbers of the variety as there is probably as little as fifteen known specimens left. Many that were grown on allotments were levelled under the New Town developments. It does appear to grow on it's own rootstock, though dwarfing, and produces loads of bite sized delicious apples as early as late June. Just the thing for kids' lunch boxes!.
I have bodged together a web-page by the prompting of one correspondence of starting the "Doddin Preservation Society". (The page is just a list of correspondence and photos and soon be be revised.) If the Doddin is a true type then I, as well as others, would like to see it registered with the National Collection at Brogdale. To do this a definite written provenance that the variety was recognised and existed in the past will need to be forth coming. If anyone can remember see anything in a past publication (such as a gardening book or horticultural periodical) please let me know.
My letter to Mary Pennell, curator of the national collection on the 17th May 2007:
Dear Mary,
I wonder if you could help me? I have been given your email address by Derek Rye who suggested you could help.
I believe that we have a local apple variety in my home town of Redditch called The Doddin (sometimes pronounce Daddin) which appears few in numbers and not heard of outside of the town. Derek thinks you might recognise the description if not the actual name. If you click on the link below and then the "Letters" link at the top you will be able to get an idea of the variety and its local support.
It would be sad to know that it's not limited to Redditch and recognised by another name but I am a realist! I just need to know. I'm also about to go on a hunt to see if there's any written evidence that the variety has been recognised in past publications and I'd like to, eventually, get The Doddin in the national collection.
Kind Regards,
Pip Taylor
The reply from Mary on the 21st:
Dear Pip,
Thank you for your recent e-mail. I have looked through many of the
Brogdale archives including the National Apple Register of the United
Kingdom, which mentions/records over 6,000 apple names, and I can find
no references to an apple by the name of 'Doddin'. It seems likely that
this particular variety is maybe only known locally. Unfortunately it
would be the decision of our Scientific Curator, Emma-Jane Allen of
Imperial College who you would need to contact regarding the possibility
of this variety being accepted into the National Fruit Collection. I
have forwarded your e-mail to her but you may wish to contact her
yourself: Tel: 01795 ---------
Kind Regards.
Mary Pennell
BROGDALE HORTICULTURAL TRUST
From Elizabeth:
Dear Pip,
I see from your latest letter in the Standard that you have already done a web page for the Doddin, what a good idea. It would be great to start a Presevation society if we can.
I have a young sapling taken off my tree and growing well, despite being damaged by flying glass in the winter winds ! I was intending to contact Brogdale myself in case they were interested in having it. It seems that without definite proof of it being a separate variety they probably wouldn't be interested. My husband and I are both professional horticulturalists and have many books on all aspects of hoticulture. We have a book on English fruit varieties from the 18th century and sadly the Doddin isn't listed, and it doesn't appear in any other publications that we own either. We will keep looking though ! Let's hope someone else has some luck.
Regards,
Elisabeth
My reply.
Good to hear from you and glad you think a Preservation Society would be a good idea. The web site's a little sparse at the moment and I'm not sure how to precede with it.
Interesting to know you and your husband are professional growers.
Yesterday I had a wander over the allotments with Paul to see his two Doddins and tried to locate another without success. I did take some more cuttings off his trees which were soft wood as opposed to the others I took from Heathfield Road. Hopefully they will take and I shall have my own Doddins. Interesting to see that one of his appears to be grafted onto a rootstock.
And on the 23rd May after my reply.
Hello Pip,
Thank you for your e-mail, I will contact the Scientific Curator and see what she says. I heard a piece on Brogdale in the Food Programme on BBC 4 . Apparently the Government funding is being cut by 50% to £125,000 a year and they are considering only growing some varieties, as its not value for money to keep them all going ! They are also thinking along the lines of keeping genes in laboratory conditions, and they also plan to move sites which seems crazy to us!
Elizabeth’s email to the Scientific Curator and her reply:
Dear Emma-Jane Allen,
I am one of a number of people in and around Redditch, Worcs who are trying to save a local apple known as the Doddin. I have managed to propagate my tree and wondered if you would be interested in including it in the collection at Brogdale. It is a very small, sweet apple and just a joy to pick and eat off the tree. Children love it because it is so small and sweet. It would be such a shame to lose this old variety for ever. I have searched many books but cannot find it mentioned anywhere.
Looking forward to hearing from you,
Elisabeth.
Dear Elisabeth,
Thanks for your message. Please would you send a sample of fruit in the summer or autumn, whenever the fruit is ripe so that we can have a look at this variety. It is possible that Doddin is a local synonym of a variety that we already have in the National Fruit Collections. We would need at least three well formed and typical fruits. I will be on maternity leave at that time, but you could address it to my colleague Penny Hale; Imperial College National Fruit Collections, Brogdale Road, Faversham, Kent ME13 8XZ.
Best wishes
Emma-Jane
And here’s final confirmation that the Doddin is not known at Brogdale. It appears to be Redditch’s own apple! Email received on the 19th of October 2007
Dear Mr Taylor,
I was very interested to hear that you think the Doddin trees might be on their own roots, as this supports out thoughts that it may have originally been used as a rootstock. On the whole, very sweet apples without a balance of acidity have never been selected as dessert varieties.
We have nothing like them in the NFC and would like to have some graftwood so that we could look at trees in our observation plot. January would be the best time to send it but I will be in contact when we hear who has been awarded the new contract.
If you are interested, the problems at Brogdale are all on a website - as well as general fruit queries etc You might like to do an article on the Doddins. www.fruitforum.net
Best wishes
Alison
Dr A.S. Lean
18th November 2008
Hi Pip,
Many thanks for the contact. As you probably know the University of Reading have taken over the responsibility for maintaining and curating the National Fruit Collection. I am responsible for the scientific curation and am involved in the additional research which we are developing around the collection.
As far as accessing material into the collections my role as Curator is really to gather information and to present a case for each accession to our advisory committee. I'm not currently in a position where I could put the variety through an evaluation trial myself. I would, however, be happy to present any information that you have on the Doddin to the advisory committee for consideration. We are looking to develop the collections as a germplasm resource and so any information on the Doddin detailing, for example, its useful or distinct traits and characteristics would be valuable.
We will meet with the committee in January and I would hope to be able to raise the issue for discussion with them at that meeting.
4th December 2008
My reply:
Distinct traits and characteristics are as follows:
• All known specimens appear to be growing on their own rootstock
which is exceedingly dwarfing giving an approximate growth of 50 mm
per year or less.
• Spur bearing.
• Very high yields and not biennial bearing.
• Very small fruit approximately 40 mm in length. Light green/yellow.
Occasional blush.
• Low acid but high sugar and tannin content of fruit (they turn brown
in seconds).
• They are very early cropping. Trees fruiting around late July.
• Culinary and not desert.
• They tolerate very heavy, wet clay.
One of our enthusiasts is a keen apple grower and has been searching
for the elusive Doddin for a many years. I managed to obtain a sucker
for him for which he was very grateful. He will be attending a budding
course soon and hopes to graft The Doddin onto a more vigourous root
stock. If this is successful we hope to graft more and then, with the
encouragement of the local council, introduce specimens to the various
parks and gardens in and around Redditch.
I've attached two photos which may help you. One is of a typical fruit
and one is of the oldest known Doddin which we believe to be a least 70
years old.
I hope this is of help and that the meeting goes well for you.
All the best,
Pip Taylor.
8th April 2009
We did discuss the general accession of new varieties into the collection with the advisory committee. As I suggested previously the focus for accessions is going to be based on improving the utility of the collection in terms of preserving valuable genetic material, based partly on the potential for accessions to contribute to future breeding programs. As such we would be aiming to access varieties which contain traits that are not already present within the collection or that have demonstrated value in active breeding programs. As part of our curational work we are carrying out some fairly in-depth genetic analysis on the current collection and we hope to identify areas where we can improve the genetic content of the collections in this respect. I think it will be easiest to further consider varieties like the Doddin once we have done some of this work.
In the meantime I have had some recent discussion with Simon Clarke of the Northern Fruit Group. Simon is working toward creating a register for 'local' apple varieties. I think it would probably be worth contacting him to discuss where varieties like the Doddin fit with respect to that work.
I hope this is useful and that your recent grafting work on the Doddin has been successful.
I did contact Simon and he is very helpful and encouraging. I also contacted Pershore College of Horticulture and they too are very helpful and encouraging.
From Pershore:
Thanks for the message about the Doddin. I did graft some many years ago for someone in your area and then distributed them to various people. Try phoning our college nursery on 01386 551177, as I think they do a grafting service, where you supply them with scion wood in the winter, and they will supply the maiden trees in the following autumn.
John Edgeley is still here, and I think I can remember talking to him about the Doddin apple, but it was a long time ago now.
Please get back to me if I can be on any more help.
Your sincerely,
Bob Hares. Pershore College of Horticulture.
From Simon Clarke:
I will send a copy of the local variety check list as soon as I get it back from the printers. We are starting the local variety survey in Lancs-Westmorland with 2009 a trial year. Subsequently we will be extending the survey to cover the whole country but given the comprehensive nature of the check list and the provisional infra structure in place, individual records can be submitted as unlike a survey "proper" records stand alone and they do not depend on complete coverage of an area to be of value.
About propagation, too late for grafting in 2009 but budding OK as it is done in August-L July. Skill needed. Contact me if you cannot find any locally!
Good luck in getting your local council to plant your variety. I suggest you contact Common Ground (Web site) for other regional varieties to plant with yours. They have a booklet listing varieties county by county
Come back to me for further help as necessary.
Jog me too if I forget to send you a copy of the checklist!
Best wishes,
Simon
Email from kevin O’Neil of Walcot Organic Nursery
23rd May 2009
A contact given to me by Bob Hares
Hello Pip,
Thank you for your enquiry. Would be very happy to help and I am very interested in growing local varieties.
In fact I had some Doddin material from someone I know in Redditch over the winter but the material was provided at an inconvenient time and I was not able to graft it so I was going to contact him again in August when we can bud. His name is Alistair Waugh - do you know of him?
Anyway it would be really good to bud some trees in August - must have this summers growth ideally pencil thickness. Details attached. Otherwise if little fresh growth we can graft in February / March 2010.
Interesting that it should come true from rootsuckers as fruit trees are grown on rootstocks. This is unusual. Plum Yellow Egg was used as a rootstock in the past until the advent of modern rootstocks.
Forget about the cost - it would be great the variety going. How many were you considering and we can fit into our production programme.
I would like to see some trees (and fruit) if possible. I believe they fruit very early late July / early August? Perhaps a good time to collect some budding material.
Kevin’s reply to my next email 26th may 2009:
If you could gain an idea of what interest there may be & quantities by early July we can incorporate it in our production with availability from November 2010.
Also will need to consider which rootstock(s)
Apples
MM106 moderate vigour M26 semi dwarfing - good for allotments & smaller spaces
M25 vigorous M9 dwarfing M27 very dwarfing
28th May 2009:
Growth is now getting underway now, so it would be best to leave it until later in the summer, end june into July to see what material is available. Don't usually need a lot of material / new growth to produce quite a number of trees.
Does grafting onto a rootstock change the size and nature of the fruit? - NO. Whatever rootstock is used Doddin will remain true.
Approx. Size in 10+ years:
MM106 12-15' M26 8-12' M25 15-20'
M9 7-8' M27 6-8'
Hope this helps - we can bud onto more than one rootstock if wished.
Michael Sheldon of Hill Close Gardens in Warwick 13th June 2009:
I am a volunteer at Hill Close Gardens in Warwick. If you are not aware of us it might be worth looking at our website. We have over fifty varieties of fruit trees, some still not identified. The name Doddins cropped up at a recent committee meeting and I decided to look into it and found your interesting website.
We are always interested in local varieties but I am not sure if we still have a Doddins here. I will investigate further!
For your interest we have pruning and grafting courses here and a number of us are proficient at grafting apple trees. Having said that it sounds as though Doddins can be propagated by vegetative cuttings, without the need for a rootstock.
Are you aware that the National Trust is starting to carry out a survey of its apple varieties and build up a database? I am advised by a man of professional standing that it is not a good idea to have all rare varieties at Brogdale - what happens if there is another great storm in Kent?
I wish you good luck in trying to save Doddins and please do come over and visit the gardens.
Ron Gardner emailed 24th June 2009:
I'm interested in your Doddin site for all sorts of reasons.
First, I'm the Ron G of Northwich Cheshire who wrote to Brogdale about the Doddin in 2001 and sent them some samples.
I'm the son of the Jack (actually John - Jack was his dad who lived further down the road) and Ruby Gardner who used to live at 66 (originally 56) Heathfield Road mentioned in a letter from Bob F. Ruby lived in that same house for 60 years! Their neighbour, Charlie Browning was also mentioned in that letter and it was him who gave my mum the Doddin tree. As far as I am aware the tree is still at the bottom of the garden at 66, unless someone has cut it down. According to mum Doddin trees were cut down by newcomers for various reasons, including them thinking they were crabs of some sort and the fact that they don't fruit every year so can look like some useless Prunus.
I also believe that as well as the Gibbs's tree there was another on Heathfield Road at a house next to the second of the paths down to what used to be called "the back way".
I have now retired to Shropshire and have two young Doddin trees in my garden. These were seedlings next to my mum's tree that I dug up when she moved. One is now covered with fruit; the other was chewed by rabbits and may never recover.
Peter Gondris of the Redditch District Council emailed 16th July 2009:
Karl Stokes has forwarded your recent most interesting e-mail to me, concerning the propagation of Doddin apple trees by Walcott Nurseries . Having talked with my manager, Carl Walker he has agreed in principle for the Landscape and Countryside Section of the Council to put an order in for 50 of these trees assuming the cost would be about £ 20 per tree . These trees would then be carefully located in open space areas within the borough.
Thus who should I speak to to put this order in place and when might the trees then be ready to collect ?
Yours , Peter Gondris (Greenspace and Biodiversity)
John Russell emailed on 1oth Aug. 2009: (My reply included)
Met someone in Redditch a few weeks ago and got talking about doddins. My wife remembers having one in the garden when she was a young girl - Bridley Moor Road, dont know if it is still there though.
Also whilst walking we saw this tree, and wondered if this could also be a doddin
Look forward to hearing from you
John Russell
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Nice to hear from you. I can't quite get the scale of the apples from the photos but they do look like a Doddin. They tend to vary in size depending on where they are growing and how they have been treated. Did you try one? Was it sweet with little acid and turned brown within seconds of taking a bite? Doddins look very much like crab apples but obviously don't taste the same! (NB. On reflection I doubt if it was a Doddin as they fruit in early July. PT Feb. 2011)
Hi - yes we firstly cut the apple in half and it did go brown. My wife tasted it, but it was not sweet - maybe not ripe yet ? The apples are about 1 1/2" diameter. The tree is on a spare bit of land at the bottom of footpath leading off Fordbridge Close in Headless Cross. Did you know anythng about the tree in Bridley Moor Road ?
Gil Barlow emailed on 30th Sep. 2009:
I went to see some friends from church last week to look at his old photos of St George's church. In conversation they mentioned that they have a Doddin tree in their garden. I understand that they have had it about 20 years and it was from a graft done at Pershore.
They are Albert and Molly Heath, the address is **, Easemore Road. Albert would welcome some advice on pruning the tree and I suggested you could help them. Their phone number is *****. Hope you can help. I think Albert is 81 now and he is an old Redditch person so you could have a good chat!
Thanks for the Doddin update during the summer. Good to hear that preservation is leading to more propagation.
Email to Kevin O’Neil from Alistair Waugh 7th Aug. 2010 (With kevin’s reply.)
Hope you are having an enjoyable summer. I'm trying not to be too busy. Hardly ... Anyhow,
We are keen to purchase some Doddins - of course - for the Batchley community in Redditch. We promised 2 for HRH Countess of Wessex, who visited in spring. Lucky us. I will have to be in touch again soon to arrange transit for etc that. An address that might not leap out of the directory I suspect.
But I'm keen that we do actually manage to secure some Doddins from you this year. - although I'd also love it if you sell them all.
Can I make a reservation for 3 x MM106 and 3 x M26 for the moment please? Wade Muggleton just sent an email which reminded me.
And I'll beat the ground to get some more orders. Press work locally on this? Interested? How many do you have for sale?
When would be the most convenient month for me to collect.
Speak soon.
Hello Alistair
No problem. We will reserve for you
At present after definite orders taken out we have available
MM106 (moderate) - 25
M26 (semi dwarfing) - 50
M9 (dwarfing) - 29
M25 (vigorous) - 27
Have been liasing with Pip Taylor - Doddin Preservation Society Any publicity would be great but liase with Pip.
They will all be available bare rooted from late November onwards.
Kevin O’Neil emailed me on 8th Aug. 2010:
Forwarded an e-mail from another Doddin enthusiast. Do you know Alistair Waugh? who could be of assistance.
At present after definite orders taken out including the Borough Council (must contact Peter Gondris to confirm all OK) we have available
MM106 (moderate) - 25
M26 (semi dwarfing) - 50
M9 (dwarfing) - 29
M25 (vigorous) - 27
Sept / Oct would be a good time to give publicity.
The people who have reserved so far are going to collect when late November onwards. You may wish for us to delivery or you to collect around then for people to collect from a central collection point in Redditch. we can discuss.
For 2010/11 we have kept Doddin on the production list and have budded a smaller number on M26 & M25.
Peter Gondris replied to my email 22nd Oct. 2010:
Good to hear from you. I have spoke to my managers and yes they seem keen on the idea. We were looking to initially purchase 50 of them to put on a variety of sites around the towns parks and open spaces. I wonder if when we get them in we could do a publicity bit and shot with a bit of tree planting on one of our sites with you being present and perhaps one of the local councillors.
Emails from Alistair Waugh (Who turned out to be an old neighbour of mine from my childhood. I hadn’t seen or spoken to him in over thirty years!)
25th Nov. 2010:
I wanted to make contact, .. Kevin from Walcot Nursery suggested I ran things by you .. I garden with school groups in Redditch .. and helped with establishing the community orchard at Headless X .. etc . We hope to plant some Doddins this December.
Would you be interested in doing some press work on the Doddin this winter? There are quite a few opportunities for piggybacking the sale (for Kevin) & re-introduction of the Doddin ... things like the new Transition Town group in Redditch .. etc.
anyhow ...
I look forward to hearing from you.
Email 28th Nov. 2010:
Hi Pip
Headless X Residents will be planting a couple of Doddins on their Green soon ish .. i think the morning of Dec 11th has been proposed.
I'd also like to see us promoting the Doddin in the local freesheets, as in a story explaing that people can help re-introduce the Doddin to town by buying from Kevin. Were you thinking of doing this anyway this winter?
Perhaps a story soon, in the run-up to Buying Presents season, gift a doddin that sort of thing..
Unfortunately I couldn’t attend the planting of two doddins at the Headless Cross Community Orchard due to work commitments but Alistair certainly sold The Doddin to the press:
Email 14th Dec. 2010
RESULT!! ..
that's both free-sheets and BBC H&W.. so to get the set I just need the Birmingham Post!! (Worcester Evening News were also informed.)
Walcot Nursery number appears in the 2 local papers I think.
let's hope you have some calls Kevin
x
http://www.redditchstandard.co.uk/story-Bid-to-revive-rare-Redditch-apple-tree--31065.html
http://www.redditchadvertiser.co.uk/news/8736599.Rare_breed_of_apple_comes_back_to_Redditch/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/herefordandworcester/hi/people_and_places/nature/newsid_9280000/9280815.stm
I emailed the editor of the Worcester News who is a old friend of my wife’s.
http://www.worcesternews.co.uk/archive/2010/12/14/Latets+%28redd_news_latest%29/8736599.Rare_breed_of_apple_comes_back_to_Redditch/
J.Waclawski emailed 19th Dec. 2010:
I was interested in reading the article on the BBC Gardening web page explaining the need for preserving this historically important apple variety. I note that it can grow in wet, clay soils and I was wondering if this variety would grow in the West Scotland where I live in Renfrewshire? It would be interested to know how much it would cost to purchase the tree?
I passed Mr. Waclawski onto Kevin.
Alistair Waugh emailed 26th Dec. 2010:
I was trawling through some things and found pictures of this 'doddin' that everyone keeps mentioning.
wasn't sure if you'd like to see them. it's the specimen on Bridge St allotments, Enfield, taken in 2008.
it's since had a big pruning. One of the allotmenteers tells me that he had been quite keen to remove it, with the front end of his tractor. (goodness knows why, as it's not in the way) he got underneath it with the bucket on the front of his tractor and gave it a nudge .. when with a sudden shake to the neighbouring asbestos-built factory units the factory workers ran out and noisily demanded that he stop... it wasn't clear if they were more concerned with their unit collapsing on their heads, or the preservation of the Doddin.
Email Forwarded to me by Alistair 7th Jan. 2011:
I was born in Birchfield Road and we had Doddin trees in our garden, and it was about where Headless Cross Drive now cuts through to Evesham Road. We had massive crops and gave all the locals kids as many as they wanted.
They are a super little apple and it is good they are back at "home".
Regards,
Alan Jones
Kevin O’Neil emailed 18th Jan 2011:
Good to hear from you! We're very busy down here keeping up with the demand for Doddin's! I'm being light hearted but we have sold out of trees on MM106 & M26, have just a few available on vigorous M25 and a few more on dwarfing M9.
You have stirred something up here! I was contacted by 'Grow Your Own' magazine recently wanting photos. I have not progressed this because we are nearly sold out. The publicity by Alistair and you has certainly worked.
Will have to give thought to supply winter 2011/12 - have only budded onto M26 & M25. I ought to get some going on MM106.
Zoë Curtis from the BBC Countryfile emailed on 19th Jan. 2011:
I am contacting you from BBC's Countryfile, we are considering the possibility of coming to the Vale of Evesham for another programme linking it to The Archers' 60th anniversary. I was quite interested to read about the Doddin tree and was wondering whether the Preservation Society had any interesting projects coming up in February that we may be able to film? We are always keen for things that are visually appealing and allow our presenters to get involved in some action.
If you can think of anything within the location, even that may not specifically be to do with the Society, please let me know.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Sally Nex from the RHS emailed and this is her last reply 20th Jan. 2011:
Thank you so much Pip – this and the pictures were perfect and just what we were after. The story should be up on the RHS website (www.rhs.org.uk/news) within the next week or so and there’s a short item in The Garden’s April issue too.
Many thanks again and the best of luck with the campaign – not that you need it from the way things are going!
My reply email to Zoë Curtis:
I've received an email from Kevin O'Neil of Walcot Organic Nursery who was instrumental in raising The Doddin numbers up by 200. He has put some ideas down here which I think may suit you. In light of the publicity raised by the RHS and yourself he intends to take more cutting material in Feb and graft it onto rootstocks for next season. Perhaps this would be good in conjunction with the Headless Cross Wassiling.
I don't think I've missed an episode of Countryfile since it started and it has come as a pleasant surprise that you should contact me. If anything else comes to light I'll let you know. And, likewise, if there's anything else I can do for you don't hesitate to contact me.
Zoë Curtis from the BBC Countryfile emailed me back on 20th Jan. 2011:
Thank you so much for this, I spoke to Kevin earlier and will endeavour to call you tomorrow. Hopefully this is something we can work on doing.
An email from Mo Flett of the web site oldvarieties.com on the 25th Jan. 2011:
Found your site following a recent press release on Doddins from the RHS.
Would like to run a feature article, are you the contact for this society?, if not, do you have contact details for them.
Kind regards
Mo Flett
After mailing Mo all she needed for a feature article she published this excellent article on The Doddin.
8th September. 2017
Dear Pip.
Whilst catching up on your website I thought it might be appropriate to to report on our most successful harvest yet after six years and this despite a generally-poor apple crop in this area around Penrith at the end of the Eden valley. I was reminded of the Doddin tree we had in our small ‘orchard’ within Crabbs Cross that delighted my two brothers and I particularly as my father took the tree with us when we moved to a new house some 100 yards further along the newly developed road. I moved to West Sussex for my first job and stayed ‘at the seaside’ until 1980 when we moved to Penrith, Cumbria and during a reminiscing with my brothers, during a visit, the subject of the Doddin tree arose and my elder brother who stayed in the Midlands was aware of the fruit tree specialists near Worcester. After making contact I reserved a tree to be collected during our next visit. And, the rest is history. It has thrived, slowly but surely since 2011 and produced 3 fruit last year; this year the yield was 20+ and I posted 2 to my brother, (nicknamed as a lad as Doddins), only last Monday and my eldest daughter, born in W.Sussex but recently moved to Cumbria, was allowed one for a late breakfast yesterday, having called in after dropping husband at Penrith for the London train. She was delighted with her ‘heritage’ apple. With luck and a ‘following’,(not Helm)’', wind next year will provide sufficient to supply the rest of my family with that ‘taste of Redditch’. I am in the process of persuading, a local land agent I met recently who has something of a passion for apple trees to consider planting a Doddin in his orchard. There could be two in northern Cumbria! Also, I have yet to investigate the excellent fruit tree collection of Acorn Bank, nearby, another possible site.
I hope this small offering will add to Doddin archive.
Tim Hodges
