Interview with Lola Zhang and ET

Lola Zhang is the Beijing-based producer of the Yunnan New Film Project, a series of 10 films set in China's southern province of Yunnan, each by a different female Chinese director. ET is the project's associate producer.

This previously unpublished interview was conducted at the Beijing Film Studios on 27 February, 2008. At that time the first two Yunnan titles had been completed: The Park by Yin Lichuan and The Case by Wang Fen. Thanks to Wang Yi for her help interpreting during this interview and translating the transcipt.

All of your biographies begin with the New Film Project for Chinese Directors in 2001. Can you tell me about your career before that project and how you first become involved in the film industry?

Lola: Before 2001 I made documentaries on people involved in the contemporary arts, rock and roll, and poetry for five years. Documentaries about their lives. To make a living I worked as a film editor and also participated in some contemporary art activities.

What kind of documentaries did you make?

Lola: For example, I often lived with artists for several months. In places like Shucun – which doesn’t exist anymore – and Qui Ying. Whenever there was a rock and roll concert or something like that, I participated and filmed it. Besides the documentaries I made I also did conceptual photography, which belongs to the contemporary arts. So before 2001 I was shooting other people’s lives for documentaries, or people were shooting me for my conceptual photography work.

Were you directing those documentaries or producing?

Lola: I was a producer. But I was also involved in the creative side. For example, I was involved in shooting the film, making the storyboards and editing.

Can you tell me how you became involved in the New Film Project for Chinese Directors?

Lola: When I was shooting the documentaries about artists, I found that a lot of the artists were very intelligent. I had a chance to work for an investment company that had a lot of funds. When I worked with those artists, I found that many of them didn’t have a chance to fulfill their intellectual abilities. So I came up with the idea of the New Film Project for Chinese Young Directors. For example, the film Two Great Sheep (Hao da yi dui yang). I once shot a film in Yun’nan, and I found Yun’nan had a lot of attractive aspects. So that’s how the idea of the Yunnan Film Project came about – an extension of the New Film Project.

Was the Yun’nan Film Project formulated with the idea of making films specifically in Yun’nan, or was it simply that the Yun’nan provincial government was prepared to offer support?

Lola: For all kinds of reasons. As I mentioned before, Yun’nan has a lot of attractive aspects. Also we accepted some help from the local government, but this was not enough. So we raised some money from elsewhere. All these reasons worked together to create the Yun’nan Film Project.

What were you hoping to achieve by bringing in directors from other fields like writing, poetry and documentary filmmaking? Was that an attempt to bring some fresh perspectives to filmmaking?

Lola: For sure I was wanting to bring some fresh perspectives to the movies. As I mentioned before, for example if you hold an exhibition the first thing you do is to set up a main theme like “South Africa” or “women.” First of all, all the directors are female. It is a part of the theme, and secondly they are from all art fields. But no matter what kind of art they do, they are all artists. The have different artistic backgrounds. When they make the films they will bring their own perspective to the making of their film.

So through their different perspectives you hope they will bring some new element to filmmaking?

Lola: When their different backgrounds combine with their films there will be some chemical reaction. This kind of change is good for filmmaking, and also good for conceptual arts.

Like most film industries, the Chinese industry has traditionally been dominated by male directors. Is it more difficult for female Chinese directors to get films up than male directors?

Lola: Yes.

Wang Yi: 19:01

Lola:

ET: That’s why the foreign media call this a crazy project – they say “Lola, you’re doing a crazy project! How cold you bring ten directors together to shoot 10 features.” Features! We’ve been asking these kinds of questions for a long time.

How did you go about selecting the directors? Did you set out from the beginning to draw together a range of talents form both inside and outside the film industry?

ET: Lola was in the contemporary arts for a long time, so she met and knew a lot of artists in that time. She knew which directors were the best ones, which modern artists were the best ones. She knew them very well so she just called them. And brought them together to talk with them for a long time. Every day I remember Lola and I met a different artist for maybe two months. Just talked with them every day.

So did you start with a big selection and whittle it down?

ET: A big selection! From mainland China, Hong Kong and Taiwan. [To Lola] That was a hard job right?

Lola: Right.

Other than the fact that the films had to be made in Yun’nan, were the filmmakers given any other criteria or restrictions they had to work within?

Lola: 22:35

ET: Actually we took these 10 female directors to Yun’nan, and looked around the whole place. And maybe some of them said, “This place is really good, I really want to make a story here and I have a very good story.” So we could do it.

Did you take them there as a group?

ET: Yeah, as a group. Twice.

And when was that?

ET: The end of 2005, just after the project launch.

Lola: 25:28

I saw an interview with Wang Fen (director of The Case) online in which she said the division of labor between producer and director is clear – the producer takes care of business while the director is a creative position. How do you see your role as series producer? Do you just see that each film gets made, or are you directly involved in the creative process?

ET: [After listening to Lola say something in Chinese] She asked me to answer the question! [laughs] Actually sometimes I have to say Lola, “You are a producer, you shouldn’t get so involved in artists’ things.” But, you know Lola. She worked in the arts for many years. She is an artist. So she can’t help herself, to be involved in the artistic things.

So Lola’s had a pretty hands-on role in each film?

ET: She takes a lot of time discussing things with the director, the scriptwriter, the editor, the photographer, the musicians… you know. The director and her will talk with them. I say to her, “Just leave it with the director.” But these directors, it’s their first tome to make a film. Many have never made any films before. Film is a business, and it’s not just the director’s job – it’s many people’s job. Lola has produced and directed films before, so she has experience. And she hopes to pass this experience to the director. So the directors think, “Ok, this producer is involved so much in my film…” But actually it’s not the director’s film. It’s not anyone’s film actually. It’s a group of people’s film. But who is responsible for the film? Who is the person who takes most responsibility for the film? Actually I think it’s the producer, not the director. Not the cinematographer. It’s not the musicians. It’s the producer.

The other thing is our directors are not that mature now. If we have a very good director – if we had Ang Lee as a director – maybe we don’t need to put so much time into the artistic things, because the director would know everything. He or she knows better than me. But now, we cannot.

What about between the different teams? Has there been much collaboration, or has each film been quite separate?

ET: Separate.

Lola: 30:30

ET: Sometimes the directors criticize us, saying “You are so Hollywood!” [laughs]

What do they mean by that?

ET: You know in Hollywood film, the producer is in charge of everything. So they say “You are so Hollywood.”

Lola: 33:08

ET: Directors, especially young directors, they don’t think film is a business. They think it’s just art. But actually it’s not. It’s not like writing – you don’t need any expenses to write a novel. But film – you really need a lot of money. And you need to get back your money to do another film. You cannot deny these things. Most of the directors, young directors, they only want to do their films. My film. Maybe the audience doesn’t like these kinds of films at all. But I like it. I want to do it. Maybe that’s the more European kind of way, that kind of way, right? But we think these films are first for the audience. At the same time if you can express yourself, that’s great. But first the audience.

So sometimes – because I’m in charge of all these scripts –every time I talk with a scriptwriter or the director, and they tell me their story, I say “What do you think the audience will think about this script, about this story?” And sometimes they say, “I don’t care.” They don’t care! “If they don’t understand I don’t care.” And I think, “How can you not care about your audience?” You have to. If the audience doesn’t think this story has any kind of relationship to them, then we cannot do this story. So they say “You are so Hollywood!”

So for this series, has most of the money come form private backers, and just some from the government? Because I know the Yun’nan provincial government has put in some money…

ET: Some, a small part of it. A small part from the Yun’nan government. But most of it we have to organize the funding. Find private funding. And it’s really hard, because we don’t have stars. We cannot afford big stars. So it’s really hard for young directors to shoot films, and push them into the market. Our two films are releasing now in the theatres. Young directors' films are really hard to get into the theatres.

So The Park and The Case are about to come out in the cinemas?

ET: Yes. Actually they have been released in Jiangsu and Guangdong. And now it is in Shanghai and other cities in the south, right now. It’s really hard to get them into the theatres. The bosses of the theatres – they don’t like these kinds of films. They don’t like the films without stars, without big directors. So you have to persuade them, you have to say, “It’s good, you should have a look at this.” Lola and I and the team always bring prints to many different bosses in the theatres. So get them to look. So we have watched the films many, many times – with the real businessmen. THESE are the real businessmen. If they think it’s not good, they say “No, I want this kind of film…”

So when is The Case and The Park coming to Beijing?

ET: In May.

Both films have done well on the festival circuit. Have you got general releases lined up anywhere else at the moment?

Lola: 30:10

Wang Yi:

ET: We have realized one thing. Things around the world are the same. In China, films without big stars, without big directors cannot go into the theatres easily. In the world it’s the same. If the directors are first-time directors, are not well known, it’s really hard to get them into the theatres. It’s the same. And sometimes the people, the critics, from festivals, they say “Oh your film’s really good. BUT, you have to say the buyers… they don’t think so. They want the king-fu films. “Have you got a horror film? Have you got any actions films?” So when our films are screening around the world they think our films are a little strange. I say, “Why do you think it’s strange?” They say, “Because it’s not an event film with costumes – an historical epic – and it’s not a Chinese underground film… sixth-generation, it’s not like that.” So they think it’s strange. Our films are very… awkward! [Laughs] The Park just won an award in a film festival in Turkey – a film director’s award. The people from the film festival told me, “Ok, if this director wins a best director’s award in a festival this time, then next time many people will know her, and maybe next time the buyers will buy the film, because this director is known right now. Business is the same. So we have to be businesswomen. [Laughs] That’s the hardest thing! Making a film – the artistic things – is very interesting, but business is quite another thing. But we have to do it. For every project.

Lola: 42:35

ET: At a very famous film festival – I don’t want to say which film festival – the programmer came to Beijing and we had an interesting talk. He told me, “Your film is too easy to understand. The film critics, they like films that are really hard to understand. [Laughs] Your film is too easy to be understood!” But for the audience, the story should be very easy to understand. Very different criteria. So what can you do? Because if you don’t get into the festivals – if you don’t let your films to be seen by many people, if you don’t get the awards – maybe you can’t get the buyers. The sales agents say, “Lola, your film must have an award from the film festival, then I can sell the film.”

Lola: 44:45

ET: Some film critics think our films are very good, for example Derek from Variety. The Hollywood Report, they wrote very good reviews about the films. So I think they are good critics, right! [Laughs]

So will the next film finished be Finding Shangri-la?

ET: Yes.

And when are you expecting it to be finished?

Lola: 45:55

ET: We spent a lot of time editing this film. It’s not the same as making a cup! [Laughs] Always we think, “This film can be better, better, better!”

And when are you hoping to finish the entire project?

Lola: 47:00

ET: We have three pressures. One from the business side, one from the directors’ side, and the third side is from ourselves. Because they all say, “Lola, the third film must better than the first two!” So, you know… [Laughs] I have a very hard job, because I’m in charge of all the scripts. So with the remaining seven scripts – two years ago, we though, “It’s good, it’s ok.” Now we look at it and think, “No…we have to change it. We have to adjust it, we have to correct it, we have to make it better.” So everyone involved in this project is under a lot of pressure. We’ve had to learn a lot of things.

So you’re making one film after the other?

Lola: Yes. 48:15

ET: When more filmmakers want to be involved in this industry, not just to be the artists, but to be the filmmakers – most of them come to our office and say, “Lola, I want to be a director! I want to be a cinematographer!” Seldom do people say, “I want to be a producer! I want to be involved in this project, to help push this project. So stay in the background. We need more filmmakers.

By that do you mean people with a more realistic approach? An all-round approach, thinking about the business side?

ET: Yes. We call ourselves “film industry workers!” Some young people they get involved in this industry because it’s really fashionable now to have the red carpet… but it’s not like that. That’s one minute…

And five years work to get there?

ET: Yes!

Lola: 51:00

ET: We hope more people go into the film industry.

Do you have plans for when the Yun’nan Project films are completed?

ET: Get married!

Lola: Yes! [laughs] 52:05

ET: I say “Lola we need to make this project faster,” and she says, “Why?” I say, “Because if it takes five or ten years you’ll be too old to get married!” So we call this project a Long March…it’s a long march.

Lola: 52:40

ET: Have you seen Crazy Stone?

No, but know of it.

ET: Right. A low-budget film, but it’s got very god box office. Lola means that in the future, we want to find real commercial filmmakers, directors, who make films for the audience. And these directors should have a very strong opinion that they want to make films for the audience. You understand? Now with these ten female directors, sometimes it’s a little hard to persuade them make the film for the audience – they still think they are the “artist.” So it’s a little hard.

Lola: 55:25

ET: In the future we really want to choose directors who say, “Lola, I really want to do the commercial film.” When Lola has an idea, they say, “No! Lola you can’t do that because the audience won’t like it. We want that kind of directors. That’s why Chunzi came into our team. She loves film so much, she said she wanted to do something for film.

Chunzi: Actually my major is not film. My major is human resource management. [laughs]

So how long have you all been working as a team?

ET: A team? Six years. Five or six years. When she was doing the Young Directors Film project, I was very touched by her work. It’s really hard to do that kind of job. So I just helped a little, and we begun to work together. My major is scriptwriting. I graduated form Beijing Film Academy.