Questions from Students
Please feel free to ask questions below in the comments. If you ask questions via email I might paste them here so other folks can see them.
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SPEED OF CADENCES
Hi Marc,
I have a question on cadential formula. I understand the resolution of the suspension has to occur on a weak beat.
but what if i have two half notes, first half note being the suspended note and the second being the resolution, would that be ok? My logic is that the beat 1 is still a stronger beat than beat 3.
like this
your logic is exactly right -- strong and weak beats seem to be relative -- half to half or quarter to quarter. It gets odder in 3/4. There, the general rule is half-quarter, but when you reverse it, you get a kind of dance rhythm, and, heck, who doesn't like to dance . . .
and remember that the word 'seems' above is very deliberate -- they weren't working out of any rule book, just a combination of generally accepted practice and their own sensibility.
cheers,
marc
ps -- the real difference between your two cadences is that the half note sounds slower and therefore perhaps more final, and the quarter/quarter one sounds more abrupt and thus less final . . . maybe?
MORE ON CADENCES
cadential formula:
1. is there a reason why it has to have a suspension in order for it to be a cadential formula? is it because the suspended note really stands out as it is being suspended and therefore it gives the resolution a more "final" sound?
Yes I think so. It's a kind of trigger.
2. you mentioned about inverted thirds (the alto voice being a third above the soprano voice?)
Well, just that either voice can have the suspension in it. in other words you can have the intervals
3 | 2 3 | 1
between the two voices
or
6 | 7 6 | 8
one of those is the inversion of the other. They both work as cadential formulae.
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THREE PART COUNTERPOINT AND INTERVALS BETWEEN VOICES
what is the exact reason (physics?) behind the fourth being more consonant (I know it does sound more consonant but why?) when there is a bass note a third down, and therefore parallel fourths are okay?
It's not clear what the exact reason is, but it is a standard practice, so most people from that era seemed to think they were ok, as long as neither note was itself a 4th from the bass. The best reason I can come up with is that the whole reason that 4ths are somewhat dissonant is that they conflict with the triad.
And, when there is a 4th between two top voices but neither is a 4th or any other dissonance from the bass, the resulting chord must be what we would call a first inversion chord. My impression is that that triadic nature subsumes the dissonance between the two voices.
The same would not be true of two top voices that are a whole step from each other (a fifth and a sixth away from the bass is the only way you can do that and have both be consonant with the bass) That whole step is nottaken care of in any triadic formation. Also 2nds just seem more dissonant that 4ths.
why is that same case not okay in tonal harmony (no parallel fourth no matter what)?
This is not true -- paralled 4ths are perfectly ok. The rules of dissonance and consonance are very, very similar in the tonal world to the renaissance world. The tonal function just allows certain things from the renaissance to be stretched -- we'll see that in a few weeks.
DISSONANCE IN DIFFERENT STYLES
Can I generalize like this (the following)? I want to be able to relay to Renaissance music better..
Renaissance:
we want to hear consonances pretty much all the time, and they are 3rds, 5ths, 6ths! unless it's a passing or neighbor or suspension because they function with different purposes... no keys (we don't know what that means)... but modes yes (certain mood?)...
I would say that both Ren and Baroque music want to hear consonance most of the time. Especially on strong beats. Baroque music is a bit more ornamented and further subject to the needs of tonal function. there is a lot of renaissance music that is wild with dissonance (carefully treated) and alot of Baroque music that is as well -- don't worry about these things too much until we get to Bach .. . . .
what are the most common modes and the least common modes?
hard to say. What we know call Ionian, Aeolian and dorian are definitely the most common but there are some others here and there (myxolydian and phrygian also exist.
Can I say since there are no chords or keys yet, their music pretty much is all different voices with different melodies going with (not against) each other?
Yes, though there are chords, they are just not subject to the needs of tonal function.
Tonal harmony:
it's all about chords and progression, keys and other keys (the journey of where the music goes?)... their way of looking at consonance is more about what's a chord tone and what's not...?
The concept of key/mode is independent from consonance and dissonance.
Thanks so much!
Hope that's not too confusing --
Be well,
Marc
