Thanks for going through my post and for all the compliments that you have showered on me. Thanks for the validation of the Andal story. It was reviewed by your fellow-Ayyangar, Sushruti Santhanam, a top-notch Pune-based musician who is also very erudite and articulate, all of which is not surprising considering that she is the daughter of Smt.Vedavalli :). The inclusion of Giripai nelukona was thanks to a suggestion from historian, heritage activist, author and Music Academy Secretary. Sriram V.
Ashwinji,
Listened upto the Bhavgeets (#18). It requires more than one and half hours of undivided attention, to do justice to the author, who have spend time in selecting, listening and posting the songs and in adding appropriate narrations therein. I know it may take only a few minutes to relate each song with theme and move one. Yet, preferred to listen to the songs in whole.
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Dr Rajesh ji,
Pathology is a wonderful subject. Robbins came into vogue when were Pathology students. Earlier batches used to refer Boyd, which looked outdated and too simple in comparison!
Even after devouring hundreds of novels of every kind, Arthur Hailey remains one of my favorite authors, and, THE FINAL DIAGNOSIS, one of my favorite novels.
I see that we shared the common feature of keeping tabs on recent songs, too. Please drop a mail at drpradeepshetty87@gmail.com
I read this poem in my school days. It is about Subhash Chandra Bose asking Indians to join him in their fight against British. I do not remember the full poem or the author. Could someone please give both. The poem goes like:-
Name: Payaray Lal - September 20, 2002E-mail: Loveisdevine@hotmail.comComments: Preem saab: tuhanu yaa kissay hor noun koe pata hay kay kissay doctor nai pindaan wich practice karan lai koe punjabi medical terminalogies di dictionary likhi ya banae howay - mera ik sajjan doctor way us maynu ajj dusia kay pindaan wich maraz samajhna kae daffa barda oukha ho jaanda aay
mareez jadoon aa kay doctor nou kayhway kay doctar ji mayre tabiyat wich nikal wadr di kayfiat aay kaali tay ghabra painda aay - gum haisa lagda way - hosh nai phirda..
aay tay kujh masalaan nain laikin us nai tay maynu puri list padr sunae jedre oo likhi baitha si
hay koe idea tussaan kol?
Regards
Name: Zahra - September 20, 2002E-mail: Z_Jamshed@hotmail.comComments: An Interesting Event Deepening Democracy in a Fragmented WorldNew York Launch of the 2002 UNDP Human Development ReportDate: Tuesday, October 3, Time: 6:30 p.m.Venue: Asia Society, 725 Park Avenue at 70th Street, New York, NY 10021The 2002 UNDP Report explores why democratic governance matters for human development. It emphasizes the importance of political freedoms as a goal of human development, and explores how democratic institutionshelp promote economic and social progress. Ms. Sakiko Fukuda-Parr, Lead Author and Director of the Human Development Report who will present an overview of the Report; Dr. Gita Sen, Professor of Economics, IndianInstitute of Management in Bangalore, India and Princess Basma Bint Talal, Chair of The Jordan Hashemite Fund for Human Development who will each discuss human development from their country-level perspective. Dr. Mahnaz Ispahani, Senior Fellow for South & West Asia at the Councilon Foreign Relations will moderate.$5 students w/ ID; $7 member/NGO; $10 nonmember Please register in advance. Please call the Box Office at (212) 517-ASIA, or send complete information by fax at (212) 517-8315 or email: boxo@asiasoc.org Imran: I am not sure which part of this universe you happen to dwell on, but see if the above interests you. Others are welcome to look into it as well.
Name: DullaBhatti - September 20, 2002E-mail: dullabhatti47@yahoo.comComments: Bali, you can find a calendar showing events celebrated in Sikh religion on most of the Jantris or calendars like Prem ji mentioned. The info on more cultural or literary figures is hard to find and only people who have in a particular person have it..e.g. The event that I mentioned about Shiv was celebrated randomly, not on his barsi or anything. Here is a link for more biographical info on Shiv. -home.com/shiv.htmlI think since you are in the business you should collect this random information and create a Punjabi culutral calendar of events.
Name: P S Kahlon - September 20, 2002E-mail: pkahlon@tnstate.eduComments: BALI JI: There are places that can give calendars, but detailed event as you want can be gotten from www.sikhnet.comscroll down at left and go to community and click and then click on sikh event calender. BRThis will take you to Sept months events by day and lists all kinds of things happening eg the last line on 2nd Oct will say Joti Jot Guru Nanak Dev Ji.BRYou can go to the top of the page and click on "by location"It will take you to another page and third line says Gurpurb. Click on that and again next page click on Gurpurb . It will give you all kinds of Gur purbs.You can surface this site AND IF THIS DOES NOT GIVE YOU WHAT YOU WANT, THEN THERE ARE OTHER SITES ALSO. BUT TRY THIS ONE AND LET ME KNOW IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR SOMETHING SPECIFIC AND YOU DID NOT FIND THERE, WE CAN FIND SOMEWHERE ELSE.jAGJIT MIGHT HELP YOU ON SHIV KB KIND OF INFO. REGARDS, PREM
Name: Imran Ahmed - September 20, 2002E-mail: garaeen@hotmail.comComments: Zahra Ji,
Name: DullaBhatti - September 11, 2002E-mail: dullabhatti47@yahoo.comComments: Zahra, I read a fictional coversation(in a play by Gargi) between two pehraydaars of Lahore when Babur invaded..they knew what was happening to their country but didn't feel anything bad about their country being trampled under horse shoes..one said to the other...dekh bhai sajjna..kai baadshah aye te kai gaye...Lahore vi othey da othey te asin vi othey de othey...jehRa marzi aawe asin te naukari karni ay.....That pretty much sums up the attitude we have. Thousand sages and saints could not fix it...this is a disease inflicted by a millenium of political setup where these people did not have any say about their lives, self respect language and culture....some of them still don't have. More probable result would have been that we would be even worse than our neighbours accross the durand line...fortunately we are much better than that already and seems things will get better in future in that respect. Criminal justice system has to work...once they hang few of these guys word will spread to straighten up...you can't expect every common person to rise up and be Dullah Bhatti.:-)...dulleh ne dhee viahi ho...saer shakkar payee ho..kuRi da shaalloo paaTa ho.:)
Name: Saeed Ahmed - September 11, 2002E-mail: Saeedfarani@hotmail.comComments: Dear Safir Rama Jee, Dr. Attash Durani'intellect is not beyond his big belly because he works in Muqtadar Qoumi Zuban since the day it was established so it is his roTi Tukar affair that he gives such non-sence statement. Basically, he is from the area of Sahiwal and he is Durani too. He has no feeling for the land and local real languages. His this statement should not be taken as seriously. There is one group of such grones who want to survive by giving such statements and they please their real bosses (bhayias) and get choGa from them. Nowadays, there is no any importance of Muqtadara Qoumi Zuban, it is almost failure project but by making such statements they try to blackmail the authorities. The books published by this authority are of low standard and the translation made by them into Urdu from English are of no use because these are full of saqil farsi and arabic terminologies. They don't want to accept English terminology if they accept them then there is nothing accept some prepositions and conjunctions words of Urdu in those translations so this project is completely failed. Now, these guys are having hanging sword of fear of their jobs. Dr. Inamul Haq was crooked so he jumped out from there and joined Allama Iqbal Open Univesity which is also showing poor performance in social sciences. They are fool and they are just nonsensly resisting on rubbish old ideas whereas the ground realities are beyond their understanding.
Name: Zahra - September 11, 2002E-mail: Z_Jamshed@hotmail.comComments: In history usually one does not read that much on the wisdom, compassion, nobility and blessedness of Muslim Kings. If one existed he ought to be praised and mentioned in the right context. Shikra: Thank you for reminding me of the movie. I have indeed watched it. It's interesting that you brought the mention of the movie on King Solomon. I was writing something on the Prince of Egypt but then I took it out. I watched the first show with a hall full of jewish families who will sing along whenever a song was played in the movie.I am getting closer in my desire to articulate my exact point. A few weeks/months(cannot recollect)back or so, I had posted a post from another board where a beautiful story was narrated on how The Earl's wife took a stand for her people; and the response of the masses. Her cruel husband was imposing more taxes on his people and she had stood up against that. It was basically condemning the women of the insensitive beings who never stood up against what their men were/are doing. They just moved along.On a different note, the Multan case had many spectators but none from the jamae' gha'feer walked away from the scene. They were not on the gun point to stay there. Were they? They all stood their probably mesmerized. How many saints and sages were from that vicinity? Are the people in that vicinity spiritually dead? What happened to their instincts? Imran, you said that it's not the intelligence but instinctive response that makes us opt for the better or the best. Were these people deprived of their right instincts? Was that crowd full of crooks? Lack of education, subjugation, might is right and awareness may be another component here. And, while I am writing this, it occured to me that combining intuition with intelligence may have very few and far between candidates. Point is, the teachings were simple enough as they were not penned or uttered for people of aflatoon's caliber. They were for the normal beings to be able to understand the realm of life. But the followers probably lacked the persuasion or got too busy in the material world or did not know how to convey the point and as a result the mazars are very well decorated but that spirit is either weak or not there any more. I would like to be corrected if I am way off.
Name: Sameer - September 10, 2002E-mail: jbsameer@yahoo.comComments: sleepyeyesofdeath: The picture of Khawaja Ghulam Farid is real because he lived by the begining of 20th century. Rest may be imaginary or copied from some portrait.Shikra: Lets not get carried away with Solomon too much. He is really a religious figure and not a historical one. Even if he existed, the Jewish empire was roughly 10 miles x 10 miles in area with few thousand people. It is impossible to have the exact detailed history of an obscure empire some 3000 years ago.
Name: shikra - September 10, 2002E-mail: prayet@hotmail.cpmComments: Zahra: How can anyone forget The scene in Yul Brynners Film about king soloman when two women were bickering over the ownership of a small child, the wise king commanded the child to be cut in to two pieces for the two women to share. Aaaaaah but this was too much for the real mother, who offered the child to the false mother rather than have it killed. Alas this showed everyone that only a true mother would rather give her child away than have it killed.
sleepyeyesofdeath (you need a new name) no one can be sure of the the true likeness of these saints and scholars but after reading and researching works and activities of thes individuals, certain artists have developed a imaginetry picture of these famous beings....... dont question, just enjoy ;)
Name: Zahra - September 10, 2002E-mail: Z_Jamshed@hotmail.comComments: Thank you all for the education in cognition, revelation, intelligence and intuition. I have some disagreements with Liaqat's point of view. I never implied that only intelligent beings can be or are intuitive. I did make a mistake of not articulating all the combinations and possibilities that led to a misunderstanding of my initial argument.On the same lines, if a person is intuitive and a duffer then there are no chances of him or her to pay attention to his inner vibes as he does not have the *appropriate* level of agility. On the other end, I feel and think that majority of the intuitive human beings have to be intelligent as well. Whereas all the intelligent beings may not necessarily be intuitive. Hope I am clear on that. I do not agree with the genius argument here whereas I would lean toward the chosen ones. King Solomon was a blessed man with wisdom, fame, fortune, power and many many other gifts. Even after 200 years of his death the jins never kew that he had passed away and thought that he was overseeing while they were working. He used to pray for certain special features in his persona and he was granted with a package by Allah Taa'la. On the other end, Prophet Moses was not one of the most genius ones but was a noble man and had great leadership skills. He had some issues with his articulation and the above dua was given to him. Interestingly, he was the only one who could talk to allah taa'la. In short, each prophet was gifted in a unique way. Genius is not necessarily the appropriate term here. Chosen, blessed and gifted - that's the appropriate combination in my view.I did not do a good job in stating my concerns previously, therefore I will make an effort to do a better job this time. Zahra's Question: Are we facing a lack of leadership in all facets of life in Pakistan? Yes or No ? If yes, then why do not we have saner leaders despite the fact that we were blessed with so many saints and sages. The books are alive and the messages are clearly written in black and white. Why do we have so much disparity? Are we in need of a better leader or an infrastructure to merge our values with the ongoing trends? Or we plan to stay Vul Razi as we are ?I still did not fare as I would like to. There is a missing element and I cannot capture it at this time for its well immersed in a pool of many other thoughts and perspectives.
Name: sleepyeyesofdeath - September 10, 2002E-mail: sleepyeyesofdeath@hotmail.comComments: I would like to know where those pictures of the great saints at the top of this site were obtained, and are they accurate?, And is there anyway of knowing for sure?Regardssleepyeyesofdeath
Name: Safir Rammah - September 10, 2002E-mail: rammah@apnaorg.comLocation: Fairfax, Va USAComments: Mushir Anwar, in an op-ed in Dawn today notes:Muqtadera's Akhbar-i-Urdu in its latest issue has published a report on the fifth seminar on problems of literary research that Peshawar University's Urdu department organized at Bara Gali from August 10 to 12. Generally ignored by the media, it was a big literary event as all universities and noted Urdu scholars participated in it.In this seminar of the leading Urdu scholars of the country, the following, statement highlights the moral and intellectual bankruptcy of these big brains:"The last session of the seminar in the evening was presided over by Dr Atash Durrani ... He opposed the general tendency to regard Urdu as the mother tongue of an ethnic minority. As the national language of Pakistan, it was the mother tongue of all Pakistanis."
Name: Sameer - September 10, 2002E-mail: jbsameer@yahoo.comComments: Liaqat Ali and sardarz: NFAK is short for Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan.My point of ordering intelligence, intuition, cognition and revelation was an order of decreasing dependency on individual's mind or capabilities. It was not meant in terms of importance or followings. Intelligence is totally dependent of one's mind and as we move to revelation, it is definitely not considered the product of individual's mind. For revelation, individual is just a medium (chosen, etc) to pass on the revealed message. The revealer does not have to be the most intelligent or genius person of that time. I am certain that many more intelligent people at the time of Jesus existed in Palestine. The intelligence, qualitatively and quantitatively measureable, was not present or remained hidden for Jesus or Mohammad until they were chosen to reveal.It is possible to exclude the revelation, as you suggested, from this order and look at it from strictly human mind (brain) point of view and keeping religions out of this discussion. In that case ordering would be intelligence, intuition, cognition, ........hallucination - human mind from purely rational on one hand to totally irrational on the other.The difference between ordering in both ways is that hallucination is permanently laughed at whereas revelation is believed by believers and laughed at by non-believers. There is no point talking about the areas where revelation and hallucination converge and areas where they diverge from each other.
Name: sleepyeyesofdeath - September 10, 2002E-mail: sleepyeyesofdeath@hotmail.comComments: Peace be with youFirstly I would like to congragulate the authors of this site for putting some of the most famous works of the sufi tradition. Unfortunately a lot of them are in Urdu or Panjabi, which I am in no way fluent in, even though my origins are from Pakistan (was brought up and raised in UK) so I was hoping this site could post translations o into English of some of the more famous works such as the 'Saif ul mulook' and some of Baba Farids and Sultan Bahu's works.Regardssleepyeyesofdeath
Name: Saeed Ahmed - September 10, 2002E-mail: saeedfarani@hotmail.comLocation: Pindi, Punjab PakistanComments: Veer Javaid Boota Jee, Kithe o tusi? Amrika ya Pakistan ya fer dohaaN de kite wichkar? Tuhadi koi ugh sugh, kher khabar ee naeeN.
Name: Sardarz - September 10, 2002E-mail: sardarz@yahoo.comComments: Dear Liaqat Ali Sahib,With due respects I tend to disagree with you when you say "Revalation came because prophets were chosen human beings".
If I go with your viewpoint It could be put as simply as that, all the prophets of all religions Islam =1,Christianity =1,Sikhism =10,Budhism =1,Jainism =1,Hinduism = 330 Million Gods out of which half would be prophets etc we may also count Dalai Lama,Bhagwaan Rajneesh, Mormons Joseph Smith,Prophets of Judaiism,Taoism etc etc.Its hard to believe after having so many"Chosen human beings" why is the almight not getting it right with all this communalism still going around.Seems like it is not working for the almighty.I think I have to go with Sameerji's contention that, these Prophets were not only intelligent humans but they were Genius of their times.I also believe they tried to give the lawless/unstable societies of their time some social order, by preaching basics of civilized world and how to achieve it by preaching it through religion.Everyones method was different but the message was the same.Also it perplexes me why would only the humans would be the "Chosen Ones" its been known that Dolphins match Humans in brain power,not only that now we are learning they also have a language to communicate.I also disagree when you say "Intelligence can be acquired by educating self" its the other way around Ignorance can reduced by educating self or in other words awareness can be accquired by educating self.Regards
Name: Liaqat Ali - September 09, 2002E-mail: mynameisliaqat@yahoo.comComments: Sameer: I appreciate your attempt of placing the different degrees of human attainment (in this case, intell, intu, cog). I agree with the placement except that I have an issue with revelation. We should take revelation out of this context: on the other hand, it implies that revelations came on prophets mainly because they were intelligent beings and then they progressed to the state of revelation. I do not belive so. Revalation came because prophets were chosen human beings. These are my two cents on the subject of placement. I also agree with your second point which is the loss of actual message over period of time. This is also my observence that this is due to the "shock" element in Sufism and stories that are passed from one generation to other. We tend to relate stories that has shocking value to the listner. I am not implying that all Islamic stories has shock element and are made up but we can see this across the board. So I am just adding another element in your point as a rational of lost messages. Agree?I must admitt you my ignorance of NFAK, I do not know what that is or what that is, so I would not be able to make any comment.As far as transfering of skills is concerned, I think it is natural not to pass the same skill generation after generation and this is a GOOD thing. Change is needed for the advancement of the skill or craft. For digital data transfer, of course, we need successful and "same" transfers of frames. Lost or discard of one frame, mean loss of over million bits. But this is a service and same transfer is expected. Alternate will be unacceptable.
Name: Sameer - September 09, 2002E-mail: jbsameer@yahoo.comComments: I agree with you Liaqat Ali. Intelligence is a mesaureable quality by a variety of means; intuition is more like believable by those who wish to believe. Actually the order will be something like, intelligence, intuition, cognition and revelation; intelligence on one end and revelation on the other.The message followed by one generation does not guarantee same vigor to the next and when it is more than 100 generations down the road, even acquired genetic character is diluted or lost, depending upon the use or uselessness of mutation. A skilled acquired say NFAK from his father did not transfer with the same mastery to his main disciple, his nephew. Many famous craftsman try hard to pass their acquired skills to their children but the result is more often not one-to-one transfer like digital data transfer in modern technologies. Not only the message of prophets and Saints becomes less important due to time lapse (generations) but the original message and the story itself gets polished deleting and debugging over generations. The reality of first generation followers of a particular leader may not be as charming as it is made to believe. The target to achieve is made intentionally more difficult to match, in order for people to keep striving and never reaching a satisfying level where their status and achievements can be logically equated with the earliest followers or leaders. There can be no more Saint Paul, St. Augustine, Imam Hanafi, Imam Ghazali, etc in modern times, who are much less than the disciples of Jesus or friends of Muhammad. The religious heirarchies in their earliest forms are impregnable.
Name: Liaqat Ali - September 09, 2002E-mail: mynameisliaqat@yahoo.comComments: Zahra: Intuition and Intelligence are not related to each other as rule of thumb. They could be related if human beings are bestowed with divine guidance and wisdom as in the case of Moses or Suleman. All intelligent people don't have intuition. Intelligence can be acquired by educating self. Intuition comes through wisdom and experience; hence Intelligence and Intuition are not directly related to each other. Well your second statement is an interesting one. Today, when Osama Bin Ladin or Deepak Chopra makes a point or say some thing, it can reach world wide via CNN in seconds. When Buleh Shah was sending messages via his kalam, in 1700s or 1800s, it was taking decades to reach even the same continent....And I am sure that you are mistaken: saints did change people lives, introduce spirtualiy, etc, we just won't be able to count that on our fingers.Coordially,Liaqat
Name: Zahra - September 08, 2002E-mail: Z_Jamshed@hotmail.comComments: Imran: Intuition and Intelligence are related to each other. Aren't they? An intelligent person will be able to know how to make a good use of his intuition. Have not we read about King Solomon and Moses? These are two of my favorites. King Solomon made a special prayer to God; whereas Moses was given: Rabish Rah'Lee Sad'ree Wa Yasser Lee Amree. Wah'lul Uqda'tum Mil'lee Sani. Yaf'qahoo Qau'lee. I was referring to intelligent beings on the choices they make and not necessarily identifying one.Also, being defensive and territorial is human nature. That's not my question. My question is that why did not the teachings of those saints create a significant difference in the lives of the natives who give significant importance to those saints and sages? Now, God forbid this is not to start blaming the ones who are not amongst us but it's to investigate the missing elements.
Name: Imran Ahmed - September 08, 2002E-mail: garaeen@hotmail.comComments: Zahra Ji, 0852c4b9a8
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