Questions & Answers!

This page is a work in progress. In other words, I will be adding NEW content to this page, so keep checking back to see what’s NEW!

Also, this particular question and answer page will SOLELY be on the TOPIC of the Doctrine of the Trinity!

And the REASON for this question-and-answer page is to show what God can do when we have PATIENCE and NOT give up on Witnessing to NON-Trinitarian Christians.

Below is a video I came across on YouTube on John 1:1 c, which is a “go straight to” verse for nearly all Trinitarian Christians.

This Video shows many MORE translations that I found in a previous research that also say, and the word was “A” god.

History of "The Word was a god" - John 1:1c

Over the course of a decade or more, God has helped me lead several brothers and sisters out of the false doctrine of the Trinity. All of the glory goes to the Father, for He gives the increase!

For some, it only took a few emails, and their eyes were fully opened.

But with others, the exchange of emails back and forth on a weekly basis, sometimes daily and even more than one email a day, it took six months to a year or more for them to fully see that the Doctrine of the Trinity is a false teaching.

God inspired me to start sharing HOW I witness to others so that they can also learn to have patience and trust that He WILL PERFORM His word when we cast our CARE about the person we are witnessing to upon him.

I will not place any of my comments in the emails that Brother Bob has sent to me. Rather, I will post the email that I REPLIED back to Brother Bob. Please understand that the name "Bob" is not his real birth name.

The first email below was sent to me over a year ago. I want to show you how MUCH Bob has changed his understanding of God’s word over the past year.

Hi Mark

I read some of your lengthy study of the father and son, and I believe on the son but perceive that relationship somewhat differently.                   

It is said that no one knows what God looks like, yet Christ said that if you have seen me you have seen the father.

John14:9. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

This man was walking with God in the flesh.

In Gen 1:26&27 we have an indication of what God  looks like.

Gen 1:26  And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Gen 1:27  So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

In Gen chapter 2 God creates an image of himself and the host of heaven, with his hands, from the dust of the ground.

Gen 2:7  And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

The LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul, as God is a living soul.

God creates a form in his image ,but not only that ,he breathes his spirit into this image and gave this image life and intelligence and Adam became a living soul.The basic makeup and essence of a man is body, Spirit and Soul and so it is the makeup and essence of God as well, that is how we are made in his image. 

The soul cannot live without a body, be it flesh or spiritual. 

Man has an earthly body and is promised a spiritual body, as God who has a spiritual body, created an earthly body for his purposes of the promised salvation of man. The body, spirit and soul are one, as in 1Jn 5:7. 

God in the flesh can never be equal to God in the spirit. God took upon himself the corruption of the flesh in the form of the son of man as Jesus Christ who is the express image of the invisible God.

Also, man in the flesh is inferior to man in the spirit. Yet both God and man are so much more than just body spirit and soul, and God so much more than man and in the end man is one in God.

God and Jesus Christ, one and the same.

John 12:45.  And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.

John 14:7.  If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

John 14:9.  Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Colossian 1:15.  Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Hebrews 1:3.  Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high.

The father son relationship is a two stage gate created by the one and only God:

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him, no man cometh unto the Father, but by me, as the following scripture attests.

This is one God performing two functions. God uses the father son relationship to assume the role as the saviour in the flesh, who must die for the remission of sin while in the corruptible flesh which can die and perish.

Only God who is without sin can serve this function.

John 6:44.  No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him,and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 14:6.  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Mat 11:27  All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

The oneness of God.

Isaiah 42:8.  I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

Malachi 2:10. Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? Why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?

Mark 12:32.  And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:

Romans 3:30.  Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

1 Corinthians 8:6. But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Ephesians 4:6. One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

1 Timothy 2:5. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

James 2:19.  Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Isaiah 42:13.  The LORD shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: he shall cry, yea, roar; he shall prevail against his enemies.

How long does God as Jesus reign and who reigns after the reign of Jesus as God?

1 Corinthians 15:24. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

1 Corinthians 15:25.  For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

1 Corinthians 15:26.  The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

1 Corinthians 15:27.  For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

1 Corinthians 15:28  And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

t appears that Christ reigns until he has put down all rule, authority and power and put all enemies under his feet. Then he will deliver up the kingdom to God, who will reign forever and ever, and then God’s role of the savior as Jesus Christ will have been completed, yet our God will have all the attributes attributed to him as stated in Isa 9:6.

Our God The Almighty, he is our savior.

Isaiah 9:6.  For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God,

The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Wonderful Counselor- Holy Spirit

The Mighty God And Everlasting Father- self explanatory

Prince Of Peace- also self-explanatory

And there is more.

Psalm 106:21.  They forgot God their saviour, which had done great things in Egypt;

Isaiah 19:20.  And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the LORD of hosts in the land of Egypt: for they shall cry unto the LORD because of the oppressors, and he shall send them a saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them.

Isaiah_43:3.  For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.

It is obvious that the savior spoken of in scripture is both God and Jesus Christ, one and the same entity.

Isaiah 43:11.  I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Isaiah 60:16.  Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the LORD am thy Savior and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.

Is the son the redeemer or is the father the redeemer, it's obvious that both are, again one and the same entity.

Hosea 13:4.  Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no savior beside me.

God also divorced Israel but he promised to marry her again, he could not do this as the father for he would be breaking his own law but he will do this as the son when the son marries the bride.

Please do not misunderstand me, I do believe in the son of God, I just believe it differently. I see it as God creating a relationship as father and son for his purposes of creation and salvation. Christ was born the son of man and resurrected as the son of God, yet he is the word, who is God. 

I do not know how he does it but God can separate the three elements of his image, his self, spirit, body and soul. 

Christ the man physically had to leave earth so that the holy spirit as Christ could descend to earth and inhabit his elect.

Who was it that appeared to Moses in the burning bush, was it the father or the son? 

It doesn't matter because they are one and the same person. 

It was God in his "Word" body, the word one day being the son of God in the flesh as the son of man.

1 John 5:7.  For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

The previous scripture does not say that the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit are separate entities, it states these three are one.

This scripture describes the state and makeup of that which is God, although not all that is God for he is much more. But it's that image we are made after, which is soul, body and spirit. 

For the word is the body of God created for God's purposes of creation and salvation. And the word became flesh.

The word in the flesh as the son of man is mentioned in the new testament in 98 verses and word referring to Christ in the spirit as the son of God is mentioned in the new testament in 74 verses.

In conclusion then, there is only one savior and there is no God before him. The Word was with God, and the WORD WAS GOD, and the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among men as the son of man and as the son of God. 

The "Word", God's spiritual  body was made flesh being  born of a woman, who was overshadowed by the holy spirit. The word died the death of the flesh and was raised from the dead and glorified and ascended back to heaven from where he came. Then he descended again as the Holy Spirit to inhabit his elect.
Bob.

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Here is my reply to Bob’s email, which I understand as him being a Oneness Pentecostal Christian that believes in the ONE God in ONE person who manifested HIMSELF into THREE MODES of Existence, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

But later on, Bob changes his view to the Trinitarian view. And later still, Bob comes "partially out" to the Trinity Doctrine but still hold to a pre-existing Son being manifested to become flesh. 

So, John 1:1c is definitely a stumbling block to Bob, Oneness Pentecostal Christians, and all Trinitarian Christians as well. They fail to see that Jesus CAME in the Volume of the Book as the FULFILLMENT of God's "word" that came forth oit from the MOUTH of Almighty God the Creator!

Hi Bob

While we agree that we do not believe in the doctrine of the Trinity we are not on the same page so to speak when it comes to the Father and his Son.

Please allow me to explain as simply as I can.

I believe that both the Trinity and the Oneness doctrine are in error. BUT I believe there is a little truth in BOTH of them.

What I mean by this is that the Oneness believers have it correct that the Son did NOT PRE-EXIST in eternity past as a separate person from the Father.

And I believe that the Trinitarians have it correct by saying that the Son is indeed a separate person from the Father.

So let us take the truth from BOTH and see what we get.

The Son did NOT pre-exist in the eternity past, but the Son BECAME a separate person from God at some point in time.

Even Oneness believers believe PART of this. but they say that the Son was a manifestation of the Father HIMSELF and not a separate person from the Father. In other words, they believe the Father BECAME the Son.

I think you are saying the same thing in different words calling it three offices rather than three manifestations.

Now, I myself believe that the Bible teaches that Jesus is a separate person from the Father. I do not see Jesus disintegrating after the 1000 year reign, or morphing back into the Father, or dying, or ceasing to exist to no longer be the Son of God after the Savior’s work is finished at the end of the Millennial reign of Jesus.

I see two separate beings BEGINNING at the Virgin birth and becoming complete after the cross when the Son of man, Jesus, became God's ETERNAL Son.  

It will be the Glorified Son of MAN who will rule FOR Yahweh the Father in the world to come for 1000 years.

Jesus INHERITS the earth FROM Yahweh.

Jesus is our BROTHER. The Father is never called our brother. We are the Father's sons and daughters and he is our Father, but never our brother.

Jesus is the firstfruits now and we will join him as firstfruits unto God at his coming again.

There are hundreds of verses clearly showing that Jesus is a separate person from the Father.

Yes, there are also many verses that seem to be saying that Jesus is one with the Father, based on how one INTERPRETS those verses.

But every one of those verses have another meaning that does not contradict any other part of God's word.

Husband and wife are ONE, but they are NOT one and the selfsame BEING. They are TWO SEPARATE persons who are united as one and one in unity and AGREEMENT.

I am blessed to hear that you came out of the false teaching of the Roman Catholic church, but I fear you have been deceived by the Oneness Pentecostal church denomination.

If you like watching videos more than reading, then may I suggest watching some video teaching by some Biblical Unitarians who came out of the Oneness Pentecostal faith. They share WHY they can no longer teach the Oneness belief just like we can no longer believe and teach the doctrine of the Trinity.

Now the Biblical Unitarians are not “a denomination”, so to speak, there are many teaching videos on YouTube made by those who call themselves Biblical Unitarians.

You can type in 21st century reformation for other videos on different subjects. I am not sure what all they believe. In other words, I disagree with what most of them teach about the soul DYING when the body dies. It’s pretty clear to me the the SOUL of Jesus did NOT die when the Body of Jesus died of the Cross.

Here are some of the names that I am familiar with:

Joel Hemphill---- You might begin with one of his videos. He is around our age and speaks the truth in love. Here is a link to one of his videos I WAS WRONG Part 1 and here is another one where he contrasts Oneness with the Trinity with the TRUTH of what the Bible itself teaches. CONTRASTING ONE GOD with ONENESS AND THE TRINITY; Joel Hemphill

Anthony Buzzard

J, Dan Gill

Joe Martin

Sean Finnegan

And there are some more that I do not recall their names.

Many of the videos go by the name 21stOneGod

Feel free to write to me any time with any question you may have.

I know that if this is your first time hearing that Jesus is not Yahweh, the one and only true God, but rather, he is God's Son. God’s human Son at FIRST, who came into existence as the Son of man. And then after the cross, the Son of MAN became God's eternal Son. If this is your first time hearing this, then you may have some verses you have been taught in a different way that could raise some questions.

There were many verses that raised questions for me when I first began to see contradictions between the Doctrine of the Trinity and the Scriptures. 

And it was God showing me directly so I told him if this is so then what about these verses. God did not mind at all for me questioning his leading and explained all those verses to me one at a time.

So then, no question is too small or silly. If you want to know more just ask.

I just do not want to see you come out of the frying pan and into the fire, so to speak. That is to say, come out of one false doctrine to be led into another false doctrine.

Brother Mark.

Next Email from Bob Brother Bob skips around a lot. If he disagrees with me, then the next email is on the subject of the end time prophecy. 

He started out as Rome reviving as the antichrist one world government.

And after many email exchanges, he now agrees 100% with me that Islam, as in, Radical Islam that takes up the sword to kill the Jews and the Christian who do not convert to Islam, is the Beast and the Mark of the Beast.

Bob also has a lot of the same beliefs as Calvinism. And that makes it harder to communicate the truth to him. And he is also a King James ONLY fan, but he will consider other translations if they agree with his view.

I am going to skip past all of his emails that are on other subjects and stay focused on our conversions regarding who Jesus truly is in the light of the Whole word of Almighty God.

Here is a brief summary to show how Bob progressed from a Oneness Pentecostal belief to belief in the Doctrine of the Trinity.

Another Email from Bob over a year later, AFTER he came out of Modalism into Trinitarianism. 

And then, also after many more emails he finally saw the errors of the Doctrine of the Trinity.

But then, Bob fell prey to another false teaching that is very close to what the Jehovah's Witnesses teach.

I may include a few of those earlier emails later, but for now, I want my readers to BE PATIENT with those you are witnessing to, no matter what the subject is about. 

For you see, what is SEEN is subject to CHANGE. Some plant and others water, but God gives the INCREASE when we do not dig up the seed of God's word that we plant.

Hi Mark

Just been thinking about God in eternity. Time is a creation of God, an observable manifestation into which he placed the rest of his manifest observable creation. Eternity has no beginning only time does and within it the observable universe has its beginning. 

God created his son in the beginning to represent him as the express image of himself within his creation and gave his son as his representative, dominion over the entirety of that creation.

Heb 1:1  God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 

Heb 1:2  Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Heb 1:3  Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; 

God is not visible in the dimension of time but God is spiritually present in his creation, for he is omnipresent in both eternity and time. However within his observable creation God the father is apparent {manifest} only through God the son who was created in the beginning and is stated in scripture to be the beginning of the creation of God.

Rev_3:14  And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

The risen "Slain Lamb" speaking: 

Jhn_17:5  And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

G4253 Before
πρό
pro
pro
A primary preposition; “fore”, that is, in front of, prior (figuratively superior) to. In compounds it retains the same significations: - above, ago, before, or ever. In compounds it retains the same significations.

This does not make Christ eternal, he has a beginning, he is the beginning of everything. You could say that Christ is the beginning of time. 

All things were made for and by him in his presence he was with the father. All things were created whether by him or for him but without him nothing was made.

The son of God created In the beginning according to the following six witnessing scriptures from Genesis to the revelation.

Gen_1:26  And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

John 1:1.  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2  The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 

Jhn_17:5  And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Col 1:15  Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16  For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17  And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 

Heb 1:1  God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2  Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 

Rev_3:14  And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Jesus Christ was born in the flesh as concerning the savior and reborn as the firstborn from the dead as concerning the church.

John 1:14  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 

Col 1:18  And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 

There is no way it can be equivocated that the beginning of creation and time, is the beginning of the first born of the dead of the church.  They are separate occurrences in God’s time line .

Yes Jesus Christ as the son of man is the beginning of the creation of the church, but as the Son Of God he is the beginning of the creation of God.

God’s pleasure in creating everything is because of his love for his son.

Bob.

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My Reply to Brother Bob.

Hi Bob.

I agree that the Son of God is God's representative.

And we are the representatives of both the Father and the Son.

But you have not kept the verses you use in their context.

Look closely at the context of Hebrews 1:1-3, which you interpret to mean that God created BY His created Son the entire universe for him to "inherit".

Heb 1:1  God, who at sundry times and in divers' manners Spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 

Heb 1:2  Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

 Heb 1:3  Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; 

First of all, verses 1 and 2 clearly teach us that in the Old Testament God did NOT speak to anyone by way of His Son even if His Son literally existed during the Old Testament times.

And in verse 3 we clearly see the TIME as to WHEN the Son BECAME or came to be being the brightness of his glory and the express image of His person was WHEN he HAD by himself PURGED our sins AND SAT down on the right hand of the Majesty on high.

So, clearly, it was after the Cross and resurrection that the Son was APPOINTED the HEIR of all things (BY) (FOR) (For the Sake of) whom He (Almighty God the Father) made the worlds (Which means AGES, this present age and the age to come, the 1000 year reign of Jesus, which rule the Son commits back into his God and Father's hands.

Then, in the very next verse we again clearly see the TIME of WHEN Jesus OBTAINED a NAME more excellent than the angels.

Heb 1:4  Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

Therefore, IF the Son created the Angels, then the Son never had a NAME more excellent than the angels that he supposedly created until AFTER the Son PURGED our sins on the Cross.

So to me, the Greek word "dia" is more correctly translated as FOR whom He also made the AGES

G1223
διά
dia
dee-ah'
A primary preposition denoting the channel of an act; through (in very wide applications, local, causal or occasional). In composition it retains the same general import: - after, always, among, at, to avoid, because of (that), briefly, by, for (cause) . . . fore, from, in, by occasion of, of, by reason of, for sake, that, thereby, therefore, X though, through (-out), to, wherefore, with (-in). In composition it retains the same general import.
Total KJV occurrences: 610.

The fire to destroy Satan and his angels was prepared before God EXTENDED the ages of the earth for 7,000 years, and THEN the heavens and the earth will pass away.

And the Lamb SLAIN was also PLANNED in the mind of God before God restored the earth to make mankind a little LOWER than the Angels.

What you have failed to see is all three creations.

#1. The original creation of the universe in the eternity past, which included the angels.

#2. The RESTORING of the earth or the RE-CREATION of the earth, which is when MAN was created.

#3. God's NEW Creation of RIGHTEOUS people.

Then there are of course the New Heaven and the New earth that SHALL be created AFTER the present heavens and the earth PASS AWAY.

Therefore, Revelation 3:14 MUST be INTERPRETED as to WHICH creation is the true God INTENDED meaning.

I say it is number 3, but you insist that it HAS to be number 1.

But the CONTEXT in Revelation verse 14 does NOT support your interpretation of the word "creation" is THAT verse to mean the original creation of the universe. As I said before, IF the original creation is interpreted, then WHY would the Son be a faithful and truthful WITNESS in the eternity past, that makes no sense.

But if the interpretation of creation is the NEW Creation, then the words in the CONTEXT calling the Son a FAITHFUL and TRUE Witness makes perfect sense.

But Many verses support interpretation #3, including Colossians 1:18,19 and Revelation 1:5.

I could say a lot more related to the rest of your email. But it is best to STICK with one verse at a time.

Brother Mark.

                Bob changed the subject again back to the end times and sent me two videos on the antichrist.

Now, to me, the word antichrist is NOT referring to an endtime world leader as church TRADITION teaches.

John very specifically refers to the MANY antichrists who were ALREADY in the world, who did NOT confess the Doctrine of CHRIST.

So, the antichrists are Christian who teach a DIFFERENT Jesus and ANOTHER gospel that is NOT the Gospel the Paul preached.

So, I saw this as an OPEN door to get back to STICKING with just ONE verse.

I will skip those longer emails and just quote one paragraph where Bob mistook my words as me explaining away the antichrist.

“I don't know if this man literally will sit in that third temple but he does set up the abomination of desolation inside it.

The abomination of desolation is likely an image of or idol of an unknown God. An idol made with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

You cannot allegorize away the Anti-Christ operating in the spirit of Satan ,who sets up the abomination of desolation in the temple in the middle of the last week and makes war with the saints until the end.  If there is a third temple it is Satan's temple not Christ’s.  

However the Jews in Israel are determined to build one. All has been prepared red heifers ,temple furniture,blueprints for speedy modular construction and DNA research done to find persons belonging to the levitical priesthood which are already in training.”

Basically, he was saying that I was changing the “meaning” of the word “antichrist”, and if I was “spiritualizing” the antichrist, then I would have to “spiritualize” the second coming of Jesus.

This shows me that Bob and a few other of my readers simply SKIM over what I write. And not just what I write, but they ALSO just SKIM of verses in the Bible that do NOT agree with their THEOLOGY of three persons in God. And that ONE of those three persons BECAME flesh.

In other words, they are having a hard time seeing that the word, the “logos” in John 1:1 is NOT a pre-existing Son of God.

That is Satan’s stronghold that all NON-Trinitarian Christians need to pull down through prayer and CLEAR teaching on every verse in John 1:1-30.

I have a lot of resource studies on my websites and I am working on an APPENDIX that has LINKS to many different translations of John 1:1 c that say, “and the word was a god.”

Below, I copied and pasted Bob’s email and then placed my comments in parenthesis in BOLD letters.

Hi Bob.

I don't know if this man literally will sit in that third temple but he does set up the abomination of desolation inside it.

(The Greek word here for Temple speaks of the body. So I see Satan possessing a man to dwell in and control or overtake that man.)

The abomination of desolation is likely an image of or idol of an unknown God. An idol made with with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things

(I see that setting the abomination as being the the armies that will surround Jerusalem to MAKE desolation)

You cannot allegorize away the Anti-Christ operating in the spirit of Satan ,who sets up the abomination of desolation in the temple in the middle of the last week and makes war with the saints until the end. 

(I never said anything about "allegorizing" the antichrist to explain away the man of sin. I was simply showing you the Doctrine of Christ which is the "context" of the many antichrist who were already entered into the world who did not CONFESS Jesus ANOINTED come in the FLESH)

If there is a third temple it is Satan's temple not Christ's. 

However, the Jews in Israel are determined to build one. All has been prepared red heifers ,temple furniture,blueprints for speedy modular construction and DNA research done to find persons belonging to the levitical priesthood which are already in training.

(And if they do start offering animal sacrifices again, then that will be the straw that breaks the camel's back so to speak. That will be a slap in the face of the Father's once and for all ONE Sacrifice for sins)

Yes all Christians should look inward

(I agree)

What is Christ going to find in his temple which ye are,when he comes and  his light dispels the darkness and reveals that which shouldn't be sitting there.

Daniel is written to physical Israel and The Revelation is written to the physical Church.

(I agree to a point. The whole Bible was written to the Jew first and most rejected Him and His Messiah to follow other gods. And then God turned to the Gentiles, but still will save any Jew who accepts Jesus as their Messiah and does NOT take the NAME of Yahweh in VAIN. I see the Messiah as being the NAME of Yahweh in both authority and in CHARACTER.)

Both congregations are going to see deception and persecution in the last days because both believe in the covenant God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel.

(I agree. But Israel or the Jewish people who are not Christians will ALSO go through the wrath of God that is poured out immediately after the wrath of Satan, during the 3.5 years right before the coming of Jesus. For Jesus is coming to make war against those fighting the Jews and the Christian. So the war extends a LITTLE past the 3.5 years called the Battle of Armageddon.

45 days, 75 days, I do not recall which or if it is both. It will take some time to FREE and gather the Jews back into their land. So, you have 3.5 years climaxing at the Battle of Armageddon, the VISUAL literal seeing of Jesus, which happens AFTER the SIGNS that the church and whole world sees at the end of the world, which seconds before we SEE Jesus, we will be caught up to meet him in the air to JOIN his army of angels to execute the vengeance of God. Then once that Battle brings submission comes the freeing of the prisoners of war and the gathering of the Jews back to their land, which makes 1335 days, and the 1000 years begins)

If we are going to see the literal end time antichrist as allegory we have to allegorize the return of Christ, the millennial 1000 years where does it end.

Again, I never said anything about "spiritualising" the antichrist as being an allegory. You read that meaning into my words.

I was only sharing with you what God has shown to me, which is that MAN has LABELED to man of sin to be called an "antichrist". The Bible itself never called the Beast, the false prophet, that Wicked one, or the man of sin anything else but the son of perdition. Look at every verse with the word "antichrist" in it and the context is always about the Doctrine of Christ.

1Jn_2:18  Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn_2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn_4:3  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn_1:7  For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist

1Jn_2:18  Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

So, giving NO glory and honor to the Son DENIES the Son as Modalist do.

Giving the Son TOO MUCH Glory during the Days of his FLESH DENIES the Father of His Glory, which is what the Doctrine of the Trinity does.

You admit that BOTH of these doctrines are wrong.

And all I ask is for you to look to YOURSELF to see if you are still yet giving too much glory to Jesus during the days of his flesh.

Is the Son truly the creator as you understand ALL of Scripture.

Simply read Proverbs 8:22-31 with YOUR lens of a LITERAL firstborn creature who was LITERALLY WITH Yahweh during what is being told to us in Proverbs chapter 8.

Then read the same verses through MY lens as  Proverbs chapter 8 being a Prophecy of God's future Son, which BEGAN at the virgin birth and was COMPLETED or finished and the Cross and Resurrection.

The TRUTH will make you FREE.

Brother Mark.

Notice that I respectfully answer Bob’s question concerning Satan and the son of perdition. I even used the word “antichrist” to calm things down.

But I do not back down from what we first were discussing, which is the TRUE Jesus, according to the Bible itself and NOT according to church TRADITION.

So I again use the word “antichrist” to circle back around to bring our conversation back to the true Jesus and the TRUE Gospel.

For you see, I do not see ANY clear language anywhere in the Bible that states, implies or even HINTS that we MUST believe that Almighty God Himself BECAME flesh or we can NOT be SAVED!

Sorry, but NONE of that kind of teaching is in the New Testament and DEFINITELY not in the Old Testament.

Hi Bob.

Yes, Satan is the spirit behind every antichrist figure and system.

One of Satan's names that is a figure, type, or shadow picturing Satan is Death which is God's enemy.

Rev 6:8  And I looked, and behold, a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. 

Here is what God has shown to me concerning the man of sin.

2Th 2:1  Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 

This is speaking of what is commonly called the Rapture of the Church. But not a pre-tribulation rapture. Rather, our being caught up to meet Jesus in the air is Post Tribulation and Pre-Wrath of the Lamb rapture.

2Th 2:2  That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 

So, even in the days of Paul, they were looking for the man of sin to appear. This is why every generation seems to have a figure of the man of sin. But each one of those figures did not fit all of the prophecies concerning that man of sin and all of his followers who are his army seeking to kill all Jews. Many Christians thought for sure that Hitler was that man of sin.

2Th 2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Here we see that two things must happen before the Coming of our Lord and the Gathering of the saints to meet Jesus in the air over the place called Armageddon. 

Son of Satan if you will. The children of God versus the children of the god of this present world. And to me, that man is the Mahdi, the Assyrian, whom the god of this world POSSESS after Satan and his angels are cast DOWN to the GROUND in Revelation 12:9,10 and Ezekiel 28:16,17.

Satan, AKA, the anointed Cherub and Lucifer before his fall or his being cast out of heaven down to the earth, was the first casting down of Satan and his angels to be imprisoned below the atmosphere of the earth called heaven or the sky, the air.

Satan, that Old  Serpent became the principalities of the air after he stole that dominion over the earth from the first Adam.

The second casting down will occur 3.5 years right before the Coming of Jesus.

And because Satan knows that his time is short, his "wrath" will be the great tribulation.

But the actual Wrath of Almighty God will be the TIME like it has never been before since the Day the Battle of the Almighty before the foundation of the world. 

The word foundation means to sit down and settle a matter.

The matter was the war in heaven and WHOSE is to be BLAME for that war, the Creator or the creature God Created.

Thus, Elohim said to his Elohim, both the good angels and the cast out angels, "Let us make man in our image and after our likeness.

Make, form, conform into their image and likeness. Hence, two groups of people, the children of the light, called the Day. And the children of the darkness, called the NIGHT.

God also HID a prophecy of the Messiah in Genesis 1:26, which we can see in verse 27, when using the Strong's numbers.

Gen 1:27  So GodH430 createdH1254 (H853) manH120 in his own image,H6754 in the imageH6754 of GodH430 createdH1254 he him; maleH2145 and femaleH5347 createdH1254 he them. 

Jesus had two "begettings", his virgin birth was the first begetting, and being begotten from the dead was his second begetting to be made perfect or complete.

H853 is untranslated nearly all of the 7,000 times it is found in the Bible. Simple put the Aleph and Tav are every word of God down to every jot and tittle written in the Volume of the Book, according to Psalm 40:7 and Hebrews 10:7

So, Satan is allowed SIX days or 6,000 years to make, conform man in his own image. Jesus is given ONE day, the SEVENTH Day to make, conform man into the image of the Father.

The Father has all seven days, but ceases from His work during the Seventh Day which He committed into the hands of Jesus to do.

The cross began the tribulation of THOSE days, referring to what we call the "church" age.

IMMEDIATELY AFTER the tribulation of those days the SIGN of the coming of Jesus, Matthew 24:29-31 and Acts 2:16-21.

The powers of heaven being shaken is the falling of the STARS to the earth, the ground being cast down from their ruling as the principalities of the AIR.

That will be WHEN the man of sin will be made known.

2Th 2:4  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 

And ALL that is called God are the Christians and the Jews. The SYSTEM that opposes and exalts itself ABOVE the Creator is Islam, and more particularly, radical Muslims, who will be united to follow the man of sin.

2Th 2:5  Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 

2Th 2:6  And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 

The "he" that will be revealed in his time is referring to Jesus and not referring to the man of sin.

2Th 2:7  For )Or because) the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 

Or the HIDDEN working of sin, who is Satan, only he hinders and will continue to hinder UNTIL Satan is bound for 1000 years. But 3.5 years before Satan is bound for 1000 years, he and his angels, called STARS, will be cast down to the ground.

That will be when Satan will posses the Mahdi and give him his power to sit upon the PALE horse in Revelation 6:8, which is the color GREEN,

2Th 2:8  And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 

So then, the wrath of Satan is right before the Coming of Jesus, And I see this forming of peaceful Islam into that WICKED Islam that makes WAR with the saints and the Jews, primarily in THAT FOURTH part of the LAND, the Middle East as we call it today.

2Th 2:9  Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 

The signs can be miracles done by Satan, but the LYING wonders, I see as being technology such as hacking computer systems to seize control of weapons to bring fire down from heaven or the sky.

2Th 2:10  And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 

Many Muslims are indeed tuning to Jesus, but far more are REJECTING the atonement of sins by insisting that Jesus did NOT DIE as Christians CLAIM, their words, not mine.

2Th 2:11  And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

And for that reason of hardening their OWN heart first, God will say, so be it, I gave you many opportunities to receive My salvation, My TRUTH, My Messiah, My Prophet, but you CHOSE your prophet Muhammad and his word OVER My Scriptures, My BOOK.

2Th 2:12  That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 

They will give GIFTS to one another rejoicing in the streets of Jerusalem with all the dead bodies of the Jews and Christians that they will have slain with their sword of war.

So, for me, Islam is THE Mark of the Beast SYSTEM that will soon be LED to make WAR against the land of Israel, Judah, which is why those IN Judah are told to FLEE and NOT the enter into the SURROUNDING countries, when they SEE Jerusalem surrounded by armies which is the abomination that MAKE desolate spoken of by the prophet Daniel.

So, again, yes, Satan is spiritually the antichrist, every antichrist, including the TYPE of which I spoke of in previous emails, instead of anointing coming in the flesh of Jesus.

Just for my clarity.

You do indeed believe that the Son of God was created.

But we differ as to WHEN the Son of God was created.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I see that you are saying that the Son was created in the eternity past before anything ELSE was created.

And you base your view, understanding, position, and belief upon the verses that seem to be saying that Jesus created all things (Colossians 1:16,17 and " All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made." (John 1:3), and that the Son of God is the beginning of the creation of God, according to your understanding of Revelation 3:14, John 1:1 and Clossians 1:16,17.

So, to you, the created Son of God in the eternity past was sent down from heaven to WHAT?

Be incarnated into flesh? Become flesh? Take on flesh? Enter into or COME IN the flesh?

This is so I can better understand how you came to this conclusion that many antichrists as having nothing whatsoever to do with the Doctrine of Christ.

Which I see as the "anointing" that came in the flesh of Jesus.

Hi Bob.

You mentioned, “I do not know why you are defining what antichrist means. The two videos are comparing the Christian view against the Muslim view of the Messiah, and their Mahdi fits the Biblical antichrist.”  

Let me explain why I addressed the definition in the first place.

1. John explicitly states that there are many antichrists, not one.  

This is why the definition matters. John is the only biblical writer who uses the word antichrist, and he uses it in a very specific way:

• 1 John 2:18 – “Even now there are many antichrists.”

• 1 John 2:22 – The antichrist is the one who “denies the Father and the Son.”

• 1 John 4:3 – The spirit of antichrist “is already in the world.”

• 2 John 7 – Many deceivers “who do not confess Jesus Christ coming in the flesh” are called antichrist.

John is not describing a single end‑time figure. He is describing first‑century deceivers who were already misleading Christians about the relationship between the Father and the Son. That is why I defined the term: because John’s usage is different from how the word “antichrist” is used today.

2. Satan’s greatest deception is to hide the true intention of 1 & 2 John.  

If Satan wanted to blind the church, what better strategy than to take John’s warning about many antichrists already present and bury it under the idea of one future Antichrist.

By shifting the focus to a single end‑time villain, the church stopped looking for the doctrinal deceivers John was actually talking about, which were those who denied the true Father and Son relationship and the real humanity of Jesus.

3. The earliest heresy was not the Trinity. It was closer to Modalism, which wrongly teaches that the Father became the Son. 

The first major error the apostles confronted was the idea that the Father Himself manifested as the Son, as if Jesus were simply the Father in another mode. This denied the genuine DISTINCTION between the Father and the man Jesus whom the Father anointed with His Spirit.

And historically, the doctrine of the Trinity did not appear fully formed, but began with only TWO, the Father and the Son.

A few key points:

• Tertullian (late 2nd–early 3rd century) was the first to use the Latin word trinitas. Ironically, he originally argued against the idea of an eternally existing Son.

• For the first two centuries, Christian belief centered on two distinct persons: the Father as the one true God, and Jesus as the exalted Lord and Messiah.

• The major debates about the nature of Christ’s divinity continued for centuries.

• The Council of Chalcedon (451 AD) finally established the dogma that Jesus possessed two natures in one person at the SAME time from his Virgin birth. By that time, virtually all Christians believed Jesus was divine in some sense. So then the actual debate was when and how Jesus became divine:

  • Was He eternally God?

  • Or was He a man exalted by God to be made Lord, King, and given divine authority?

Those who held the latter view lost the political and theological battle, but they never became Trinitarian. Many chose persecution or death rather than deny what they believed Scripture taught.

4. I feel the same way! And not because of church history, but because of Scripture. 

My convictions are not based on councils or traditions. Rather, church history SUPPORTS what God taught me to believe. My belief comes from the biblical text itself. I do not need to change any of the meanings of Greek or Hebrew words to make the Scriptures fit what God led me to believe. I simply read what is written.

In other words, I already had come to believe that the very reason God made man and the son of man as little lower than the angels was to silence His enemies, according to Psalm 8:1-6.

The plan of Salvation with the Lamb being slain was devised by Yahweh AFTER the war in heaven.

So, all I am doing is sharing what God has shown me through His Word.

And ultimately, there are only two kinds of witnesses in this world:

• God’s witnesses, who testify truthfully about the Father and His Son.

• Satan’s witnesses, who distort that relationship and bear false testimony concerning the Father and the Son.

My desire is to stand firmly with the first group, God’s TRUE Witnesses to teach the Apostle’s Doctrine of Jesus ANOINTED!

If you want to continue the conversation, I’m always open to it.

My heart for all Trinitarian Christians, Modalist Oneness Pentecostal Christians, and the JW Christians along with every other Christian who believes and CONFESSES as their WITNESS that the Son was begotten in the eternity past, is for all these groups of Christians to CONFESS the true Jesus, which is Jesus ANOINTED.

To teach INSTEAD of the ANOINTING coming in the FLESH of Jesus is antichrist.

Paul said the only FOUNDATION laid is Jesus Christ, which means Jesus ANOINTED.

And to CONFESS that Jesus is God Himself in the flesh HIDES the truth that God Himself came into the FLESH of Jesus at his baptism as a partial anointing and the FULLNESS of the Godhead did not dwell in Jesus until AFTER his God Glorified the Son of Man with a new immortal body that could HANDLE the FULL Glory of God dwelling in him.

We have a PORTION of God’s Spirit dwelling in us to give us the POWER to BECOME the ETERNAL Sons of God to be like Jesus to be made in his IMAGE.

This is what God has shown to me and I MUST share what I know that God has revealed to me through the Scripture.

Again, if you want to continue the conversation, I’m always open to it.

I pray that you do! If not today, then later after you pray and ask God SPECIFICALLY if I am teaching His intended Truth.

Ask God, He will tell you His intended truth.

And when you are ready, I am here to continue the conversation, I’m always open to it.

Blessings,

Brother Mark.

Hi Mark

We are never going to agree on the divinity of Jesus so let's change the

subject.

We have discussed the origin of the anti- christ before, but I came

across a couple of videos that tie together the thoughts we both have on

the subject.

The premise is that all parties the Christians ,the Jews and the Muslims

must recognize the anti-christ as their messiah.

The Christians believe he is the son of Marry as the son of David out of

Judah the Messiah. The Jews believe he will be the son of David out of

Judah coming as the King of Israel. The Islamics believe he is the son

of Marry, Jesus the coming Mahdi the son of Abraham .

Please watch the following videos. In one of the videos the one on the

Islamic belief in Jesus has some chanting just fast forward those

sections. The first video contain at least couple of the christian

theories and the second video contains the Islamic theories.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUUl767GrkI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeOMFj1dVuA

There is one prophecy missing in both these videos and it is that which

is critical to the Christian belief.  That is the prophecy of the

eternal throne of David which Christ will claim at his return.

[ISV] Jer 33:17  For this is what the LORD says: 'David will never be

without a man sitting on the throne of the house of Israel,

The only dynasty ever to claim to sit upon the throne of Davide is the

British dynasty. This royalty has spread throughout Europe as well down

through the ages even the Czars of Russia are related.

In the final analysis the anti- christ  has to fulfill the

requirements of all three major religions that came out of the belief in

father Abraham.

Notice that Bob said we will NEVER agree on WHEN Jesus was CREATED.

And he said let’s CHANGE the subject.

So, I honored his request and answered his questions about the end times.

Then he brings the subject of Jesus back on the table, not me.

And that is because God is still working on him until he finally see the TRUE Jesus and the TRUE Gospel.

Hi Mark

We have five scriptural witnesses in the following that state that God has never been seen or heard by men.

Joh 1:18  No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. 

1Jn 4:12  No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. 

1Jn 4:20  If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

Jhn_5:37  And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

1Ti 6:16  Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

If the previous statements are true then the premise begs the question who did appear unto men in the old testament. The only answer could be that God has a representative ,a stand in or a spokes person as Mosses had a spokes person in Aaron. Moses being a type of God and Aaron being a type of Christ. Below are ten scriptural witnesses and there are more.

Jhn_5:37  And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

Joh 1:18  No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. 

Luk 10:22  All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him. 

Mat 11:27  All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. 

Joh 17:26  And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them. 

Joh 17:6  I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 

Joh 14:9  Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 

1Jn 5:20  And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. 

Col 1:15  Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 

Col 1:19  For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 

You might say but  that was the man Jesus. It was the man Jesus but he was with the father from the beginning of the creation. Two witnesses agree ,scripture and Jesus Christ himself.

Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2  The same was in the beginning with God. 

Col 1:15  Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 

Jhn_17:5  And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Rev_3:14  And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; 

Now, another email from Bob came while I was still writing my email response below.

So, I went ahead and responded back to both of his emails in the email below. And thus, you will see answers to questions and comments that are not in his email above.

Also, I left OUT some of his emails altogether, because he keeps using the SAME Scriptures over and over.

Thus, you will see,

Hi Bob.

Hi Bob.

And no Hi Mark in between. Bob simply parrots what he was taught in the Oneness Pentecostal church denomination he used to attend, which wrongly teaches that Almighty God manifested HIMSELF to become flesh.

And it is through that LENS of ONLY God Himself can DIE for our sins, that is how he reads that understanding INTO the Scriptures.

Hi Bob,

The word "Christ" means two things, ANOINTED and the Messiah or the Savior.

The Jews, at least some of them openly admit that Jesus was an anointed prophet, but not THE ANOINTED King who will deliver them. They also do not believe that Jesus is the SUFFERING Messiah, rather, some believe in TWO Messiahs.

The Muslims, at least some of them, say that Jesus was called the Messiah or the Christ in the Bible, but they DENY that Jesus is the Son of God.

But all Christians believe that Jesus is BOTH the Christ and the Son of the Living God just like the Bible plainly states several times.

But where Christians disagree is how these TERMS, Christ, Son of God, and AntiChrist are DEFINED.

G5547

Χριστός

Christos

khris-tos'

From G5548; anointed, that is, the Messiah, an epithet of Jesus: - Christ.

Total KJV occurrences: 569

So, anti-Christ also has TWO meanings.

Anti-ANOINTING and Anti-MESSIAH.

Against the ANOINTING and Against the Messiah.

If one says that Jesus did the works that he did though his OWN power as being Almighty God Himself in the flesh, then they are teaching AGAINST the anointing.

And here is just one example.

If I heard it once, I heard it a thousand times, "ONLY Jesus can live without sin, BECAUSE his is God and God cannot sin.

Well, God cannot be TEMPTED, so Jesus could not be God because he was tempted.

So then, no Christian is Anti-Messiah, but MANY Christians are Anti-ANOINTING.

They may SAY out of one side of their mouth that they believe Jesus was anointed, but out of the other side of their mouth they dogmatically insist that Jesus is God Himself in the flesh.

Rather than saying what the Bible itself clearly says many times, which is that God was WITH Jesus, holding his hand by DWELLING in the FLESH of Jesus.

2Co 5:16  Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. (One NATURE at a TIME. HUMAN nature DURING the DAYS of his FLESH. And DIVINE NATURE AFTER the cross and resurrection)

2Co 5:17  Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 

2Co 5:18  And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 

2Co 5:19  To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 

2Co 5:20  Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 

2Co 5:21  For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. 

The Son of MAN was made both Lord and CHRIST, the MESSIAH, after the cross. Human Son BEFORE the Cross, DIVINE Son AFTER the cross.

I watched some of both videos, 15 min of both.

I did not know that the Roman Empire split, but even without that enlightening information, God already revealed to me that Radical Islam will sack Jerusalem in the war right before Jesus returns to end that war.

I disagree with his view that Muslims will conquer the whole earth. Earth also means LAND and Revelation 13:7,8 is the FIRST beast and not the Second or last beast.

The first breast was the Ottoman Islamic Empire that received the womb of the sword.

The second beast is still rising out of the LAND translated as out of the earth.

And they shall make their own peaceful Muslims in the IMAGE of Radical Muslims to take up the sword in that LAND and not conquer the whole earth.

And this is happening in our day.

I find it interesting that around 14 min into the video he said shortly after the TRUE Messiah will descend.

And several times  when there was something he did NOT understand, he said, whatever that MEANS, Allah knows best.

The PEOPLE among them that will be victorious will be the Christians, but not victorious in the WAY they THINK.

For whether we live or die, we will live eternally.

I may finish watching both videos later, because I did learn two new things, The Roman Empire split and only  the western part fell. And Muslims do believe the Isa or Jesus to us is the TRUE Messiah. But now a Messiah who DIED for the SINS.

My point is that if both Jews and Muslims were taught that God created Jesus, taught Jesus, anointed Jesus with power to overcome sin and lay down his life in OBEDIENCE to his God, Then they would be more RECEPTIVE to hear more of the Gospel of the GLORY of Christ, the Messiah

Brother Mark.

Hi Bob.

I did not deny Revelation 3:14, I simply was showing you that there is another way of understanding that verse in the light of Revelation 1:5 which comes before Revelation 3:14.

Compare Scripture with Scripture and let Scripture tell us what these two verses mean.

Rev 1:5  And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 

Rev 1:6  And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 

Rev 3:12  Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. 

Rev 3:13  He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. 

Rev 3:14  And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

The word "OF" means possession, as in the creation of my God.

Right there is the same context of verse 14, Jesus says four times in one verse that the Creator is his God, by saying my God four times.

One can "use" verse 14 out of its context to argue that the Son of God created the universe in the eternity past.

But in all honesty Bob, was Jesus a faithful and true witness "before" anything was created.

Is it IMPOSSIBLE for this verse to mean that the Son became a faith witness by obeying his God to suffer and die on the cross for our sins and not only for our sins, but for the sins of the whole world. And then God raised Jesus from the DEAD as God FIRST BEGOTTEN from the dead as Revelation 1:5,6 teaches us?

First Begotten, firstbegotten, and firstborn, all mean the same thing.

And to be "first" in line means that the one first in line is the head of the line and the beginning of that line.

Jesus is also called the beginning of the church, which is the new creation of God through, because of and by reason of Jesus laying down his own life of his own free will to suffer and die on the cross.

Col 1:18  And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, (Beginning of what? The creation of his God. When did Jesus become the beginning of the creation OF God to be his God's faithful and true witness?) the firstborn from the dead; that in ALL things he might have the preeminence. 

Col 1:19  For it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell; (What FULNESS? The fullness we are told about in the next chapter in verse 9. Col 2:9  For in him dwelleth all the fulness OF the Godhead bodily. WHO did the fullness belong to before it PLEASE Him that ALL of the fullness OF the GODHEAD should dwell in him? So then, the FATHER is the Godhead, the God of god, the God of Jesus, the HEAD of Christ, of the HEAD God, the HIGHEST, the ALMIGHTY God over and above Jesus who he MADE Lord after the cross and resurrection, according to the first Gospel message in Acts 2:22-36. The translators were honest in this verse to place the word "things" in italics to let us English speaking people to know that it was added)

Col 1:20  And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Did Almighty God reconcile Satan and the fallen angels to Himself by, through, because of, or by reason of him, speaking of Jesus?

Both words translated as things in verse 20 are from the Greek word "ho".

Col 1:20  And,G2532 having made peaceG1517 throughG1223 theG3588 bloodG129 of hisG846 cross,G4716 byG1223 himG846 to reconcileG604 all thingsG3956 untoG1519 himself;G848 byG1223 him,G846 I say, whetherG1535 they be thingsG3588 inG1909 earth,G1093 orG1535 thingsG3588 inG1722 heaven.G3772

G3588

ὁ, ἡ, τό

ho hē to

ho, hay, to

The masculine, feminine (second) and neuter (third) forms, in all their inflections; the definite article; the (sometimes to be supplied, at others omitted, in English idiom): - the, this, that, one, he, she, it, etc.

Total KJV occurrences: 8497.

In all honesty Bob, do you see the English word "things" in the definition of the Greek word "ho", which is almost always translated as the definite article "the"?

So, please understand that I am not CHANGING verse 20 to FIT my own personal VIEW.

The ALL in verse 20 are THE who are RECONCILED to Almighty God because of what Jesus did on the cross.

So, let's CORRECT that error and use the English word "THE" in the place of the incorrect word "things". Unless of course you believe that God reconciled Satan and the fallen angels to Himself.

Col 1:20  And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all THE unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be THE in earth, or things in heaven.

Now, WHO are the "ALL THE" in this context Bob?

WHO is Jesus the BEGINNING of?

His BODY, the Church!

Is the HEAD a PART of the BODY?

Now, let's go back up in this same context and read verses 13-15.

Col 1:13  Who (The Father) hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of His dear Son: 

Col 1:14  In whom we have redemption through his blood,(Jesus has no more blood after his God Glorified him with a new immortal body of flesh and bones. Son then, it was the mortal Son of God who died on the cross, seeing that immortal cannot die) even the forgiveness of sins: 

So, the context of verse 15 is about the Glorified Son of God after the cross and resurrection, because, according to Acts 2:36, the Son of Man was not actually made Christ, which also means Messiah or Savior until after the one and only Sacrifice for all sins)

The Preeminence of Christ

Col 1:15  Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: (Some translations as firstborn of all creation. But the KJV has it correct by saying EVERY CREATURE.

Granted, if one takes this verse 15 out of its context, then he or she could argue that the Son of God was begotten in the eternity past to be the IMAGE of the invisible God.

But if they do argue that point as the JW's do, then they would have to admit that the Son of God was born as a CREATURE in the eternity past.

And a creature is NOT a spirit being who was WITH God and WAS God in the beginning called the Word.

Let's continue to compare Scripture with Scripture using the word "firstborn".

New Testament Verses: Yellow means mortal Son of God and blue means glorified immortal Son of God.

Mat_1:25  And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

Luk_2:7  And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.

Rom_8:29  For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. (His BODY, the Church, who are also given the promise of being made partakers of the Divine Nature, according to 2 Peter 1:4)

Col_1:15  Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: (Every creature is referring to the BODY, the Church, the many BRETHREN) And Jesus is the FIRST to be begotten from the dead to be given LIFE even as the Father has LIFE in Himself, according to John 5:26,27, BECAUSE he is the Son of MAN)

Col_1:18  And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in ALL things he might have the PREEMINENCE. (Again, the context is talking about "the ALL" in the BODY, the Church and NOT about all things in the entire universe. God made Jesus to be the HEAD of the Body, the Church during THIS PRESENT AGE. And during the world to COME, Jesus will reign over the Whole EARTH for 1000 years UNTIL his God puts all enemies under his feet. And the last enemy is death)

Heb_11:28  Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.

Heb_12:23  To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Jesus was indeed a JUST Man.

Hebrews 2:10.

Heb 2:10  For it became him, (Or it behoove the Father)for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to MAKE the Captain of their salvation PERFECT through sufferings.

Luke 24:26.

Luk 24:25  Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: 

Luk 24:26  Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his GLORY? 

Hebrews 6:20.

Heb 6:20  Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made a high priest forever after the order of Melchisedec. 

John 17:22.

Joh 17:22  And the GLORY which You GAVE me I HAVE GIVEN them; that they may be one, even as we are one: (The SAME GLORY that God gave to Jesus is PROMISED to be given to us at the Coming of Jesus, for that is when we will actually OBTAIN the Divine Nature of Eternal Life. Now, if God had already LITERALLY given Jesus glory before he suffered and died on the cross to ENTER INTO his Glory, then we have a contradiction. But if God gave the glory as a PROMISE spoken by the prophets as the slow of heart to believe all the prophets, then there is no contradiction)

Joh 17:23  I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. 

So the world does not believe God's FIRST faithful and true WITNESS in this present world.

But in the world to come, they will SEE Jesus as he is in all his Glory, along with seeing his BODY, the JUST men through his righteousness made PERFECT having been made PARTAKERS of the Divine Nature of IMMORTALITY to be LIKE Jesus made in his IMAGE.

We will run through a troop and leap over a wall to execute the vengeance of God with Jesus, according to Psalm 149:4-9, Psalm 18:28 and Joel Chapter 2. Jesus is coming to gather us together and then make war, executing the first half hour of the wrath of Almighty God called the wrath of the Lamb. Psalm 144:1 talks about the hands of Jesus being taught to make war.

My point is we cannot DIE, so no weapon formed against us will prosper, no missile, no atomic bomb, no weapon of any kind will hurt us.

And in the EYES of the world, we will be gods who are ONE with the Father as his VISIBLE IMAGE that will be SEEN.

Exodus 20:3.

Exo_20:3  Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Exo 20:3  Thou shalt haveH1961 noH3808 otherH312 godsH430 beforeH5921 H6440 me. 

H5921

עַל

‛al

al

Properly the same as H5920 used as a preposition (in the singular or plural, often with prefix, or as conjugation with a particle following); above, over, upon, or against (yet always in this last relation with a downward aspect) in a great variety of applications: - above, according to (-ly), after, (as) against, among, and, X as, at, because of, beside (the rest of), between, beyond the time, X both and, by (reason of), X had the charge of, concerning for, in (that), (forth, out) of, (from) (off), (up-) on, over, than, through (-out), to, touching, X with.

Total KJV occurrences: 5683.

Satan is called by TITLE the god of this world in 2 Corinthians 4:3,4.

Satan and the FALLEN Elohim are God's ENEMIES who are AGAINST him.

Colossians 2:18 forbids the worshiping of ANGELS.

Jesus is NOT AGAINST God and neither is Jesus OVER God.

But rather, Almighty God is the God OF Jesus.

Therefore, Jesus can NOT BE Almighty God Himself.

Therefore, in the LIGHT of the WHOLE word of Almighty God written in all the prophets, the Volume of the Book, Jesus was GIVEN all authority and power FROM his God to be made a King, a Lord, AND have the FULLNESS of THE Godhead DWELL in his BODY.

His own personal Gloried body and his BODY, the Church when we also are GIVEN the SAME GLORY the Father GAVE Jesus.

So, in the LIGHT of Acts 2:36 and Psalm 2 which teach that Jesus was made Lord and SET as Yahweh's King.

Here is my CORRECTED translation of John 17:5 in the light of John 17:2, Jesus being given all POWER and John 17:22, Jesus being GIVEN Glory and NOT RETURNED to his former glory.

This corrected translation AGREES with the WHOLE word of Almighty God, which CLEARLY teaches us that everything about Jesus is the FULFILLMENT of the Scriptures.

And yet, there is not even one single PROPHECY of a God the Son coming down from heaven to be incarnated, or manifested to BECOME flesh.

The Correct Translation and Meaning of John 17:5!

 “And now, O Father, glorify You me with Your own self with the glory which I am TO POSSESS WITH YOU OVER the world TO BE.”

So to me, and many other Christians and many MORE each day, John 1:1 c should be translated as, "and the word was a god"; 

1 Timothy 3:17 should be translated as, " And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: A God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.", 

and John 10:33 should be translated as,  "The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself a God. 

Jesus answered their accusation that he was MAKING HIMSELF to be a God saying the following.

Joh 10:34  Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 

Joh 10:35  If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 

Joh 10:36  Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? (When was Jesus SANCTIFIED and SENT INTO the world? (Up in Heaven? Or was it when his God ANOINTED him at his Baptism with the Holy Spirit and POWER who went about doing GOOD Works for God was WITH him)

Joh 10:37  If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 

Joh 10:38  But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. 

And WE are IN the Father by abiding in Jesus, and the Father is IN us.

We are the Temple of God.

And Jesus is the Temple of God, according to the verses where the Father DWELLS in him and Malachi 3:1.

Mal 3:1  Behold, I will send my messenger, (John the Baptist)and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his TEMPLE, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts. 

So then, to me, the Scriptures do not teach that Jesus pre-existed as God before God Created Jesus is the womb of a woman to be HER firstborn Son.

No where in the Bible are we commanded, taught, hinted at that we MUST DEFINE the title Son of God as  being FULLY Almighty God Himself in the flesh at his Virgin birth or we cannot be saved.

If this was a requirement for Salvation as many dogmatically demand, then the Apostles would have expounded a whole lot on Jesus being fully God and fully human at the SAME time during the days of his flesh.

Paul said we KNEW him after the flesh, but henceforth or from now on we KNOW him NO MORE. (After the flesh)

I wonder why the translators did not add those words after the flesh.

So to me, Jesus was the fully human Son of God, whom his God CHOSE and CALLED to walk in righteous at his baptism and SENT him into the world.

First driven by the Spirit into the wilderness to fast for forty days and after he hungered the Tempter came. Then he returned in the POWER of the Spirit making a pit stop, so to speak at the wedding of Cana, where he did his FIRST miracle, then on to the Synagogue where he read from Isaiah the prophecy about the Messiah being ANOINTED and said THIS DAY this is FULFILLED in your ears.

The word was NOT ALWAY Translated as the Word in John 1:1 and the word was ALSO referred to by the pronoun "IT" both before and after the KJV.

I have all of the names of the Bibles and links to most of them if you want to read those translations for yourself.

I will close by saying that God has His WITNESSES and Satan has his witnesses.

WHOSE "witness" will you be?

Satan blasphemed God's NAME, his character.

And God said to Satan that the day He created him to the day that he corrupted himself and iniquity was found in him, God created him PERFECT.

So, to me, the blaspheming is saying something that is NOT TRUE about God.

Either blaming God for things He did NOT do and insisting that He DID do it, or saying that God did NOT do what He did indeed do, like casting out devils and the Jews Blaspheming God by saying Jesus cast out devils by the power of Satan.

Numbers 23:19 clearly says that God is NOT a MAN and NEITHER is He the Son of MAN.

You argue that this verse has nothing to do with Jesus by giving me all the verses where the phrase son of man are definitely not referring to Jesus.

You can argue that the son of man was not capitalized, which PROVES it is not Jesus, and I can show you a verse that the son of man is also NOT capitalized and it does INDEED refer to Jesus because the Apostles of Jesus quoted that verse referring to Jesus.

Psa 8:4  What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 

Heb 2:5  For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. 

Heb 2:6  But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? 

Heb 2:7  Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of YOUR HANDS: 

Heb 2:8  Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. 

Heb 2:9  But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. 

Heb 2:10  For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

I said this before, maybe to you but definitely to others.

Is it IMPOSSIBLE for God to Create a human being and EXALT that human being to the highest authority second only to God Himself.

If you say it is IMPOSSIBLE for God to do that, then you place God in your Trinitarian box like the rest of the Trinitarian Christians, or which, I was one of them before God led me out of Trinitarianism.

I say that ALL things are POSSIBLE with God.

And by CREATING Jesus LOWER than the gods for a little time. Then after he obeyed all of the Will of his God, then the Creator Highly Exalted His human Son to be seated at His right hand SIDE and not under His feet.

And AFTER Jesus rules for 1000 years in RIGHTEOUSNESS and NOT as Lucifer ruled after he corrupted himself to become God's enemy. Then God will JUDGE the world, this present world BY the MAN who He raised from the DEAD, according to Acts 17:11.

If this email does not convince you, then your MIND is truly BLINDED by the god of this world to the Gospel of GLORY, according to 2 Corinthians 4:3,4. 

Yes, the KJV says glorious gospel, but many other translations say the gospel of the GLORY of Christ.

New King James Version

4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.

Holman Christian Standard Bible

4 Regarding them: the god of this age has blinded the minds of the unbelievers so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

English Standard Version

4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

New American Standard Bible

4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

New Living Translation

4 Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.

New Revised Standard

4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

There are many more translations saying the gospel of glory...

The SAME GLORY that all have come SHORT of because we all have SINNED.

Brother Mark

Just to bring you up to date and to refresh your memory on how Bob left the Roman Catholic Church.

Changed his belief to the Oneness Pentecostal Belief that the Father manifested Himself to become flesh.

Then changed back to the Doctrine of the Trinity after talking with me.

But then, changed his belief to almost exactly what the Jehovah’s Witnesses teach, with ONE exception.

Unlike the JWs, Bob currently believes that the Word in John 1:1 is the Son of God. And to him, the title, the Son OF God has to mean that the Son IS God Himself, because John 1:1C says, And the Word WAS God.

Now, if the Word was a “frog” when God created to frogs, did all of the frogs EXIST as the Word.

Absolutely! Everything that is created EXISTED as the Word BEFORE they were Created.

But AFTER they were created or BECAME whatever the word WAS, then they are no longer the Word.

But rather, they are what the Father SPOKE into existence.

The word was a God and a God came into existence as the IMAGE of the unseen God.

But the IMAGE is NOT Almighty God Himself in the Flesh. For you see, God is presently conforming us into the IMAGE of His dear Son, But that does NOT make us to BECOME Jesus HIMSELF in our flesh.

The age old argument, No man has SEEN God at any time is completely meaningless,

For you see, if one sincerely believes that Jesus literally pre-existed as God, then no man could have seen the Son of God at any time in the Old Testament either, because no man has SEEN GOD.

I addressed all those same verse before with Bob, showing hs the SEEN also means No man has UNDERSTOOD God at anytime but the Son has DECLARED him

He “got it” but then he “forgot it”.

So, in the email below, I will focus on the TRUE meaning of Colossians 1:15-22 by comparing Scripture with Scripture, which is what we are supposed to do when interpreting verses of Scripture.

Hi Bob.

We all agree that the Creator created the universe and all the hosts, which the Bible calls the heavens and the earth.

But the Bible also teaches us about God's NEW Creation that God Creates into the BODY of Jesus called the church of the Firstborn.

Ephesians 2:8-10.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 

Eph 2:9  Not of works, lest any man should boast. 

Eph 2:10  For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

The Greek word translated as Created IN Christ Jesus also means BY.

But clearly, in this verse it would make no sense to use the meaning, Created BY Christ Jesus, because WE are the WORKMANSHIP of God, who is doing the Creating the ALL who BELIEVE to be IN the Son.

And when we are IN the Son, then we are also IN the Father, but NOT that the Father is the Son.

This same Greek word "en" G1722 is "Translated in Colossians 1:16 as "For BY him were created ALL...

But the "context" of the whole chapter is about God's NEW Creation Created IN Christ Jesus who is the Firstborn from the DEAD, the BEGINNING of the Church.

Yes, I fully realize that the English word  "things" is right after the word ALL, but there is no Greek word in the Greek text that can be translated as "things".

Therefore, it SHOULD be in "italics" but it is not in verse 16.

However, in verse 18 the word "things" is in italics.

There are way too many "IN" him, "IN' who, and "IN" Christ verse to list them all, but at least study the ones in Ephesians chapter ONE and Colossians chapter ONE.

Also, please click on the link to read the Literal translation.

I was shocked to see the the Greek word "ho" is translated as "things" in the KJV, but translated as THE on the earth and THE in the heaven, in verse 20, speaking of PEOPLE who are RECONCILED to God by reason of the sacrifice Jesus made on the cross.

And in verse 16 the definite article is indeed in the Greek, but it is NOT translated in the KJV as "For by him were THE ALL Created, speaking of PEOPLE and not all THINGS in the universe.

Here is the link:

Scripture4All Interlinear: Colossians 1

Notice the CONTEXT of verse 16,17, which are used to try to prove the universe was created by the Son of God.

Col_1:2  To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Col_1:4  Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints,

Col_1:28  Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Col_1:14  In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Verses 15 and 16 are about God's NEW Creation, OF WHICH Jesus is the FIRST of every CREATURE by being the FIRSTBORN from the DEAD to be GIVE the Divine Nature of Eternal life, the FIRSTBORN among many BRETHREN.

So, if we use the meaning of G1722, For IN him were Created the ALL, then verse 16,17 AGREE with Ephesians chapter 1 and the rest of the New Testament which is about the CHURCH, the NEW Creatures that Almighty God the Father CREATES IN Jesus and not BY Jesus.

Eph_1:7  In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Eph_1:11  In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Eph_1:13  In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Eph_2:21  In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

Eph_2:22  In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Eph_3:12  In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

You get the picture.

You will see it if you truly want to see it.

Eph_1:1  Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Eph_1:3  Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Eph_1:10  That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Eph_1:12  That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

Eph_1:20  Which He wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

Brother Mark.

Now, if some of the message in the email below seems to be familiar to you, that is because to save time, I sometimes copy and paste from my studies and even from a previous email.

Hi Bob.

I did not deny Revelation 3:14, I simply was showing you that there is another way of understanding that verse in the light of Revelation 1:5 which comes before Revelation 3:14.

Compare Scripture with Scripture and let Scripture tell us what these two verses mean.

Rev 1:5  And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 

Rev 1:6  And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 

Rev 3:12  Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. 

Rev 3:13  He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. 

Rev 3:14  And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

The word "OF" means possession, as in the creation of my God.

Right there is the same context of verse 14, Jesus says four times in one verse that the Creator is his God, by saying my God four times.

One can "use" verse 14 out of its context to argue that the Son of God created the universe in the eternity past.

But in all honesty Bob, was Jesus a faithful and true witness "before" anything was created.

Is it IMPOSSIBLE for this verse to mean that the Son became a faith witness by obeying his God to suffer and die on the cross for our sins and not only for our sins, but for the sins of the whole world. And then God raised Jesus from the DEAD as God FIRST BEGOTTEN from the dead as Revelation 1:5,6 teaches us?

First Begotten, firstbegotten, and firstborn, all mean the same thing.

And to be "first" in line means that the one first in line is the head of the line and the beginning of that line.

Jesus is also called the beginning of the church, which is the new creation of God through, because of and by reason of Jesus laying down his own life of his own free will to suffer and die on the cross.

Col 1:18  And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, (Beginning of what? The creation of his God. When did Jesus become the beginning of the creation OF God to be his God's faithful and true witness?) the firstborn from the dead; that in ALL things he might have the preeminence. 

Col 1:19  For it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell; (What FULNESS? The fullness we are told about in the next chapter in verse 9. Col 2:9  For in him dwelleth all the fulness OF the Godhead bodily. WHO did the fullness belong to before it PLEASE Him that ALL of the fullness OF the GODHEAD should dwell in him? So then, the FATHER is the Godhead, the God of god, the God of Jesus, the HEAD of Christ, of the HEAD God, the HIGHEST, the ALMIGHTY God over and above Jesus who he MADE Lord after the cross and resurrection, according to the first Gospel message in Acts 2:22-36. The translators were honest in this verse to place the word "things" in italics to let us English speaking people to know that it was added)

Col 1:20  And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Did Almighty God reconcile Satan and the fallen angels to Himself by, through, because of, or by reason of him, speaking of Jesus?

Both words translated as things in verse 20 are from the Greek word "ho".

Col 1:20  And,G2532 having made peaceG1517 throughG1223 theG3588 bloodG129 of hisG846 cross,G4716 byG1223 himG846 to reconcileG604 all thingsG3956 untoG1519 himself;G848 byG1223 him,G846 I say, whetherG1535 they be thingsG3588 inG1909 earth,G1093 orG1535 thingsG3588 inG1722 heaven.G3772

G3588

ὁ, ἡ, τό

ho hē to

ho, hay, to

The masculine, feminine (second) and neuter (third) forms, in all their inflections; the definite article; the (sometimes to be supplied, at others omitted, in English idiom): - the, this, that, one, he, she, it, etc.

Total KJV occurrences: 8497.

In all honesty Bob, do you see the English word "things" in the definition of the Greek word "ho", which is almost always translated as the definite article "the"?

So, please understand that I am not CHANGING verse 20 to FIT my own personal VIEW.

The ALL in verse 20 are THE who are RECONCILED to Almighty God because of what Jesus did on the cross.

So, let's CORRECT that error and use the English word "THE" in the place of the incorrect word "things". Unless of course you believe that God reconciled Satan and the fallen angels to Himself.

Col 1:20  And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all THE unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be THE in earth, or things in heaven.

Now, WHO are the "ALL THE" in this context Bob?

WHO is Jesus the BEGINNING of?

His BODY, the Church!

Is the HEAD a PART of the BODY?

Now, let's go back up in this same context and read verses 13-15.

Col 1:13  Who (The Father) hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of His dear Son: 

Col 1:14  In whom we have redemption through his blood,(Jesus has no more blood after his God Glorified him with a new immortal body of flesh and bones. Son then, it was the mortal Son of God who died on the cross, seeing that immortal cannot die) even the forgiveness of sins: 

So, the context of verse 15 is about the Glorified Son of God after the cross and resurrection, because, according to Acts 2:36, the Son of Man was not actually made Christ, which also means Messiah or Savior until after the one and only Sacrifice for all sins)

The Preeminence of Christ

Col 1:15  Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: (Some translations as firstborn of all creation. But the KJV has it correct by saying EVERY CREATURE.

Granted, if one takes this verse 15 out of its context, then he or she could argue that the Son of God was begotten in the eternity past to be the IMAGE of the invisible God.

But if they do argue that point as the JW's do, then they would have to admit that the Son of God was born as a CREATURE in the eternity past.

And a creature is NOT a spirit being who was WITH God and WAS God in the beginning called the Word.

Let's continue to compare Scripture with Scripture using the word "firstborn".

New Testament Verses: Yellow means mortal Son of God and blue means glorified immortal Son of God.

Mat_1:25  And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

Luk_2:7  And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.

Rom_8:29  For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. (His BODY, the Church, who are also given the promise of being made partakers of the Divine Nature, according to 2 Peter 1:4)

Col_1:15  Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: (Every creature is referring to the BODY, the Church, the many BRETHREN) And Jesus is the FIRST to be begotten from the dead to be given LIFE even as the Father has LIFE in Himself, according to John 5:26,27, BECAUSE he is the Son of MAN)

Col_1:18  And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in ALL things he might have the PREEMINENCE. (Again, the context is talking about "the ALL" in the BODY, the Church and NOT about all things in the entire universe. God made Jesus to be the HEAD of the Body, the Church during THIS PRESENT AGE. And during the world to COME, Jesus will reign over the Whole EARTH for 1000 years UNTIL his God puts all enemies under his feet. And the last enemy is death)

Heb_11:28  Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.

Heb_12:23  To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Jesus was indeed a JUST Man.

Hebrews 2:10.

Heb 2:10  For it became him, (Or it behoove the Father)for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to MAKE the Captain of their salvation PERFECT through sufferings.

Luke 24:26.

Luk 24:25  Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: 

Luk 24:26  Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his GLORY? 

Hebrews 6:20.

Heb 6:20  Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made a high priest forever after the order of Melchisedec. 

John 17:22.

Joh 17:22  And the GLORY which You GAVE me I HAVE GIVEN them; that they may be one, even as we are one: (The SAME GLORY that God gave to Jesus is PROMISED to be given to us at the Coming of Jesus, for that is when we will actually OBTAIN the Divine Nature of Eternal Life. Now, if God had already LITERALLY given Jesus glory before he suffered and died on the cross to ENTER INTO his Glory, then we have a contradiction. But if God gave the glory as a PROMISE spoken by the prophets as the slow of heart to believe all the prophets, then there is no contradiction)

Joh 17:23  I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. 

So the world does not believe God's FIRST faithful and true WITNESS in this present world.

But in the world to come, they will SEE Jesus as he is in all his Glory, along with seeing his BODY, the JUST men through his righteousness made PERFECT having been made PARTAKERS of the Divine Nature of IMMORTALITY to be LIKE Jesus made in his IMAGE.

We will run through a troop and leap over a wall to execute the vengeance of God with Jesus, according to Psalm 149:4-9, Psalm 18:28 and Joel Chapter 2. Jesus is coming to gather us together and then make war, executing the first half hour of the wrath of Almighty God called the wrath of the Lamb. Psalm 144:1 talks about the hands of Jesus being taught to make war.

My point is we cannot DIE, so no weapon formed against us will prosper, no missile, no atomic bomb, no weapon of any kind will hurt us.

And in the EYES of the world, we will be gods who are ONE with the Father as his VISIBLE IMAGE that will be SEEN.

Exodus 20:3.

Exo_20:3  Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Exo 20:3  Thou shalt haveH1961 noH3808 otherH312 godsH430 beforeH5921 H6440 me. 

H5921

עַל

‛al

al

Properly the same as H5920 used as a preposition (in the singular or plural, often with prefix, or as conjugation with a particle following); above, over, upon, or against (yet always in this last relation with a downward aspect) in a great variety of applications: - above, according to (-ly), after, (as) against, among, and, X as, at, because of, beside (the rest of), between, beyond the time, X both and, by (reason of), X had the charge of, concerning for, in (that), (forth, out) of, (from) (off), (up-) on, over, than, through (-out), to, touching, X with.

Total KJV occurrences: 5683.

Satan is called by TITLE the god of this world in 2 Corinthians 4:3,4.

Satan and the FALLEN Elohim are God's ENEMIES who are AGAINST him.

Colossians 2:18 forbids the worshiping of ANGELS.

Jesus is NOT AGAINST God and neither is Jesus OVER God.

But rather, Almighty God is the God OF Jesus.

Therefore, Jesus can NOT BE Almighty God Himself.

Therefore, in the LIGHT of the WHOLE word of Almighty God written in all the prophets, the Volume of the Book, Jesus was GIVEN all authority and power FROM his God to be made a King, a Lord, AND have the FULLNESS of THE Godhead DWELL in his BODY.

His own personal Gloried body and his BODY, the Church when we also are GIVEN the SAME GLORY the Father GAVE Jesus.

So, in the LIGHT of Acts 2:36 and Psalm 2 which teach that Jesus was made Lord and SET as Yahweh's King.

Here is my CORRECTED translation of John 17:5 in the light of John 17:2, Jesus being given all POWER and John 17:22, Jesus being GIVEN Glory and NOT RETURNED to his former glory.

This corrected translation AGREES with the WHOLE word of Almighty God, which CLEARLY teaches us that everything about Jesus is the FULFILLMENT of the Scriptures.

And yet, there is not even one single PROPHECY of a God the Son coming down from heaven to be incarnated, or manifested to BECOME flesh.

The Correct Translation and Meaning of John 17:5!

 “And now, O Father, glorify You me with Your own self with the glory which I am TO POSSESS WITH YOU OVER the world TO BE.”

So to me, and many other Christians and many MORE each day, John 1:1 c should be translated as, "and the word was a god"; 

1 Timothy 3:17 should be translated as, " And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: A God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.", 

and John 10:33 should be translated as,  "The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself a God. 

Jesus answered their accusation that he was MAKING HIMSELF to be a God saying the following.

Joh 10:34  Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 

Joh 10:35  If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 

Joh 10:36  Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? (When was Jesus SANCTIFIED and SENT INTO the world? (Up in Heaven? Or was it when his God ANOINTED him at his Baptism with the Holy Spirit and POWER who went about doing GOOD Works for God was WITH him)

Joh 10:37  If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 

Joh 10:38  But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. 

And WE are IN the Father by abiding in Jesus, and the Father is IN us.

We are the Temple of God.

And Jesus is the Temple of God, according to the verses where the Father DWELLS in him and Malachi 3:1.

Mal 3:1  Behold, I will send my messenger, (John the Baptist)and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his TEMPLE, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts. 

So then, to me, the Scriptures do not teach that Jesus pre-existed as God before God Created Jesus is the womb of a woman to be HER firstborn Son.

No where in the Bible are we commanded, taught, hinted at that we MUST DEFINE the title Son of God as  being FULLY Almighty God Himself in the flesh at his Virgin birth or we cannot be saved.

If this was a requirement for Salvation as many dogmatically demand, then the Apostles would have expounded a whole lot on Jesus being fully God and fully human at the SAME time during the days of his flesh.

Paul said we KNEW him after the flesh, but henceforth or from now on we KNOW him NO MORE. (After the flesh)

I wonder why the translators did not add those words after the flesh.

So to me, Jesus was the fully human Son of God, whom his God CHOSE and CALLED to walk in righteous at his baptism and SENT him into the world.

First driven by the Spirit into the wilderness to fast for forty days and after he hungered the Tempter came. Then he returned in the POWER of the Spirit making a pit stop, so to speak at the wedding of Cana, where he did his FIRST miracle, then on to the Synagogue where he read from Isaiah the prophecy about the Messiah being ANOINTED and said THIS DAY this is FULFILLED in your ears.

The word was NOT ALWAY Translated as the Word in John 1:1 and the word was ALSO referred to by the pronoun "IT" both before and after the KJV.

I have all of the names of the Bibles and links to most of them if you want to read those translations for yourself.

I will close by saying that God has His WITNESSES and Satan has his witnesses.

WHOSE "witness" will you be?

Satan blasphemed God's NAME, his character.

And God said to Satan that the day He created him to the day that he corrupted himself and iniquity was found in him, God created him PERFECT.

So, to me, the blaspheming is saying something that is NOT TRUE about God.

Either blaming God for things He did NOT do and insisting that He DID do it, or saying that God did NOT do what He did indeed do, like casting out devils and the Jews Blaspheming God by saying Jesus cast out devils by the power of Satan.

Numbers 23:19 clearly says that God is NOT a MAN and NEITHER is He the Son of MAN.

You argue that this verse has nothing to do with Jesus by giving me all the verses where the phrase son of man are definitely not referring to Jesus.

You can argue that the son of man was not capitalized, which PROVES it is not Jesus, and I can show you a verse that the son of man is also NOT capitalized and it does INDEED refer to Jesus because the Apostles of Jesus quoted that verse referring to Jesus.

Psa 8:4  What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 

Heb 2:5  For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. 

Heb 2:6  But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? 

Heb 2:7  Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of YOUR HANDS: 

Heb 2:8  Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. 

Heb 2:9  But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. 

Heb 2:10  For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

I said this before, maybe to you but definitely to others.

Is it IMPOSSIBLE for God to Create a human being and EXALT that human being to the highest authority second only to God Himself.

If you say it is IMPOSSIBLE for God to do that, then you place God in your Trinitarian box like the rest of the Trinitarian Christians, or which, I was one of them before God led me out of Trinitarianism.

I say that ALL things are POSSIBLE with God.

And by CREATING Jesus LOWER than the gods for a little time. Then after he obeyed all of the Will of his God, then the Creator Highly Exalted His human Son to be seated at His right hand SIDE and not under His feet.

And AFTER Jesus rules for 1000 years in RIGHTEOUSNESS and NOT as Lucifer ruled after he corrupted himself to become God's enemy. Then God will JUDGE the world, this present world BY the MAN who He raised from the DEAD, according to Acts 17:11.

If this email does not convince you, then your MIND is truly BLINDED by the god of this world to the Gospel of GLORY, according to 2 Corinthians 4:3,4. 

Yes, the KJV says glorious gospel, but many other translations say the gospel of the GLORY of Christ.

New King James Version

4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.

Holman Christian Standard Bible

4 Regarding them: the god of this age has blinded the minds of the unbelievers so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

English Standard Version

4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

New American Standard Bible

4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

New Living Translation

4 Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.

New Revised Standard

4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

There are many more translations saying the gospel of glory...

The SAME GLORY that all have come SHORT of because we all have SINNED.

Brother Mark.

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Hi Mark

Just been thinking about God in eternity . Time is a creation of God, an observable manifestation into which he placed the rest of his manifest observable creation. Eternity has no beginning only time does and within it the observable universe has its beginning . God created his son in the beginning to represent him as the express image of himself within his creation and gave his son as his representative, dominion over the entirety of that creation.  

Heb 1:1  God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 

Heb 1:2  Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

 Heb 1:3  Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; 

God is not visible in the dimension of time but God is spiritually present in his creation, for he is omnipresent in both eternity and time. However within his observable creation God the father is apparent {manifest} only through God the son who was created in the beginning and is stated in scripture to be the beginning of the creation of God.

Rev_3:14  And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

The risen "Slain Lamb" speaking: 

Jhn_17:5  And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

G4253 Before
πρό
pro
pro
A primary preposition; “fore”, that is, in front of, prior (figuratively superior) to. In compounds it retains the same significations: - above, ago, before, or ever. In compounds it retains the same significations.

This does nor make Christ eternal, he has a beginning, he is the beginning of everything . You could say that Christ is the beginning of time. All things were made for and by him in his presence he was with the father. All things were created whether by him or for him but without him nothing was made.

The son of God created In the beginning according to the following six witnessing scriptures from Genesis to the revelation

Gen_1:26  And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2  The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 

Jhn_17:5  And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Col 1:15  Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16  For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17  And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 

Heb 1:1  God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2  Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 

Rev_3:14  And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Jesus Christ was born in the flesh as concerning the savior and reborn as the firstborn from the dead as concerning the church.

Joh 1:14  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 

Col 1:18  And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 

There is no way it can be equivocated that the beginning of creation and time ,is the beginning of the first born of the dead of the church.  They are separate occurrences in Gods time line .

Yes Jesus Christ as the son of man is the beginning of the creation of the church,but as the Son Of God he is the beginning of the creation of God.

Gods pleasure in creating everything is because of his love for his son.

Bob.

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Hi Bob.

I agree that the Son of God is God's representative.

And we are the representatives of both the Father and the Son.

But you have not kept the verses you use in their context.

Look closely at the context of Hebrews 1:1-3, which you interpret to mean that God created BY His created Son the entire universe for him to "inherit".

Heb 1:1  God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 

Heb 1:2  Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

 Heb 1:3  Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; 

First of all, verses 1 and 2 clearly teach us that in the Old Testament God did NOT speak to anyone by way of His Son even if His Son literally existed during the Old Testament times.

And in verse 3 we clearly see the TIME as to WHEN the Son BECAME or came to be being the brightness of his glory and the express image of His person was WHEN he HAD by himself PURGED our sins AND SAT down on the right hand of the Majesty on high.

So, clearly, it was after the Cross and resurrection that the Son was APPOINTED the HEIR of all things (BY) (FOR) (For the Sake of) whom He (Almighty God the Father) made the worlds (Which means AGES, this present age and the age to come, the 1000 year reign of Jesus, which rule he commits back into his God and Father's hands.

Then, in the very next verse we again clearly see the TIME of WHEN Jesus OBTAINED a NAME more excellent than the angels.

Heb 1:4  Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

Therefore, IF the Son created the Angels, then the Son never had a NAME more excellent than the angels that he supposedly created until AFTER the Son PURGED our sins on the Cross.

So to me, the Greek word "dia" is more correctly translated as FOR whom He also made the AGES

G1223
διά
dia
dee-ah'
A primary preposition denoting the channel of an act; through (in very wide applications, local, causal or occasional). In composition it retains the same general import: - after, always, among, at, to avoid, because of (that), briefly, by, for (cause) . . . fore, from, in, by occasion of, of, by reason of, for sake, that, thereby, therefore, X though, through (-out), to, wherefore, with (-in). In composition it retains the same general import.
Total KJV occurrences: 610.

The fire to destroy Satan and his angels was prepared before God EXTENDED the ages of the earth for 7,000 years, and THEN the heavens and the earth will pass away.

And the Lamb SLAIN was also PLANNED in the mind of God before God restored the earth to make mankind a little LOWER than the Angels.

What you have failed to see is all three creations.

#1. The original creation of the universe in the eternity past, which included the angels.

#2. The RESTORING of the earth or the RE-CREATION of the earth, which is when MAN was created.

#3. God's NEW Creation of RIGHTEOUS people.

Then there is of course the New Heaven and the New earth that SHALL be created AFTER the present heavens and the earth PASS AWAY.

Therefore, Revelation 3:14 MUST be INTERPRETED as to WHICH creation is the true God INTENDED meaning.

I say it is number 3, but you insist that it HAS to be number 1.

But the CONTEXT in Revelation verse 14 does NOT support your interpretation of the word "creation" is THAT verse to mean the original creation of the universe. As I said before, IF the original creation is interpreted, then WHY would the Son be a faithful and truthful WITNESS in the eternity past, that makes no sense.

But if the interpretation of creation is the NEW Creation, then the words in the CONTEXT calling the Son a FAITHFUL and TRUE Witness makes perfect sense.

But Many verses support interpretation #3, including Colossians 1:18,19 and Revelation 1:5.

I could say a lot more related to the rest of your email. But it is best to STICK with one verse at a time.

Brother Mark.

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Hi Bob.

Did you hear what you just said?

The premise you propose has merit but I think that Moses here is a type of God and that Aaron as God's spokesperson is a type of Jesus.

As God's spokesperson is a type of Jesus

This is exactly who Jesus is, a spokesperson of God.

God's FACE that we can see.

God's perfect image of God's Character.

A Prophet of God like no other prophet before him or after him.

The first Prophet who did ALL of his God's will, even to lay down his own life or his own free will to suffer and die for his brethren, his FELLOWS.

G3353

μέτοχος

metochos

met'-okh-os

From G3348; participant, that is, (as noun) a sharer; by implication an associate: - fellow, partaker, partner.

Total KJV occurrences: 6.

This is exactly what I have been endeavouring to get you to see.

A Son of God is supposed to be ONE with God to serve God and do God's work.

Jesus is God's Servant, the best servant God ever had in my own opinion. Isaiah 42:1-9/Matthew 23:10,11.

Jesus is a Prophet. Matthew 13:57,58; Matthew 21:11; John 6:14 & 7:40; Acts 3:22,23.

Jesus is an Apostle of God. Hebrews 3:1

And when you look the word "apostle" up, you will find that it comes from the Greek word "apos"

G652

ἀπόστολος

apostolos

ap-os'-tol-os

From G649; a delegate; specifically an ambassador of the Gospel; officially a commissioner of Christ (“apostle”), (with miraculous powers): - apostle, messenger, he that is sent.

Total KJV occurrences: 81.

And the English word "sent" that is "INTERPRETED" by Trinitarian Christians as God sent His always existing God the Son down from heaven to become flesh, is translated from Strong's number G649

Mat 10:40  He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me. 

G649

ἀποστέλλω

apostellō

ap-os-tel'-lo

From G575 and G4724; set apart, that is, (by implication) to send out (properly on a mission) literally or figuratively: - put in, send (away, forth, out), set [at liberty].

Total KJV occurrences: 133.

Now, I see God sending Jesus out into the world to preach that the Kingdom of God was at hand.

I do not see anywhere in Scripture that God sent down a spirit being who became flesh.

To me, that view is read into the Scriptures.

But let's say I am wrong and God sent down the second person of a Godhead Trinity God from heaven to be incarnated and become flesh.

That would then mean that God the Son was equal to God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit.

And it would also mean that God the Son had no beginning of any kind, otherwise the Son could not be a PART of the ETERNAL Spirit.

So then, the Eternal Spirit being, who is Almighty, all knowing, can be everywhere at the same time says to Almighty God the Father, I will go down to the earth and become flesh.

Even though there is not even one prophecy foretelling us anything even remotely like this.

Maybe those prophecies God was not able to preserve.

But let;s say this is what actually happened.

God the Son was the SAME and God the Father and God the Holy Spirit in EVERY WAY, and the Son comes down from heaven to become flesh.

And after becoming flesh, the God he USED to be, he no longer is the SAME.

Why do I say this?

I say this because God the Father is now THE God over His Son.

God the Father has His OWN Will.

The Son made flesh has his own will.

God in heaven is the only WISE God and TEACHES the Son.

The Son can do NOTHING of himself and the Father who DWELT in the Son if actually the One who did the mighty works.

The Son overcomes sin through the power of the Eternal Spirit, who is identified as being the Father dwelling in the FLESH of Jesus.

And BECAUSE of the Son's complete OBEDIENCE, his God HIGHLY exalted him to REMAIN flesh and bone.

#1. Be made a Lord over the whole earth ONLY.

#2. Be SET a King  over the whole earth ONLY.

#3. Rule as God FOR his God over the whole earth ONLY.

#4. And ONLY rule over the earth for an AGE of 1000, UNTIL His God has placed all enemies under his feet.

#5. Commits the Kingdom back into the Father's hands and STOPS ruling over the earth.

Now, to ME, that does NOT sound like being HIGHLY EXALTED!

But, God CREATING a MAN, ANOINTING that MAN with a PORTION of His Spirit.

Holding that anointed man's hand to lead and guide him to do all the Will of his God even to die of the cross.

And then AFTER OBEYING all of his God's Will, the Father was so PLEASED that He GAVE His HUMAN Son the FULLNESS of Deity to be SEATED on HIS Right Hand Side to rule over the Whole earth for 1000 years, does indeed sound like being HIGHLY EXALTED!

Now to ME. if the Bible had prophecies of a LITERAL Lamb that would be born to bear the punishment of sins, and the SIGN that would prove WHICH Lamb is indeed the one promised to be the Messiah, would be able to TALK.

And the God and Father of that Lamb said to HONOR the Lamb even as you honor me.

Then I would HONOR that Lamb even as a HONOR the Father.

My point is that if the Creator CHOSE to CREATE a MAN, just as the Prophecy says in Jeremiah 31:22, then who am I to CLAIM that Jesus was NOT CREATED.

Jer 31:22  How long will you go about, O you backsliding daughter?For the LORD has CREATED a NEW thing in the earth, A woman shall compass a man. 

Here is the commentators words:

A woman: נקבה תסובב גבר [H5347], literally "A female ('one who is only a woman, not a wife, namely a virgin,' says Cocceius) shall encompass a man," or a male child. Comp. Job_3:3. Which, together with the addition of a new creation, may well be understood to denote the miraculous conception. Hence the Jews have applied it determinately to the Messiah. In Berashith Rabba (Parash 89) it is said, that as God punished Israel in a virgin, so would he also heal; and in Midrash Tillim, on Psa_2:1-12, R. Huna, in the name of R. Idi, speaking of the sufferings of the Messiah, says, that when his hour is come, God shall say, "I must create him with a new creation; and so he saith, This day I have begotten thee." Gen_3:15; Isa_7:14; Mat_1:21; Luk_1:34-35; Gal_4:4

Jesus is the BEGINNING OF GOD's Creation, His FAITHFUL and TRUE WITNESS. Revelation 3:14.

Jesus is the BEGINNING of GOD"S CHURCH at the time his God raised him from the DEAD. Colossians 1:19.

The NAME of the Church is called the Church of the FIRSTBORN.

Not the firstborn in the Eternity past as the JW's CLAIM, but the Firstborn from the DEAD, the Firstborn among NAME BRETHREN, who are being conformed by the God of Jesus into the IMAGE of His dear Son.

But yet Trinitarians stake their SALVATION upon their FAITH that ONLY God HIMSELF can die for our sins, when the Bible ITSELF clearly states as a FACT that the Son of MAN was lifted up on the cross.

Brother Mark.

And here is Bob’s latest email sent to me on January 19th 2026.

I will wait to answer it, because he refuses to even consider any other “interpretation” or any other “translation” other than the KJV and any translation that AGREES with the King James Version.

Plus, I will be busy for a couple of weeks on other projects that need to get done.

I will post it on my website with LINKS to all of the in-depth studies that I have on the verses that Bob quotes, when I get time. For now, just click on the search icon that looks like a magnifying glass, then type is the Scripture reference and pick one of the studies to read.

The truth of the matter is that many Trinitarian Bible Scholars know full well that the CORRECT God INTENDED translation of John 1:1 C SHOULD be “and the word was a god.”

They also know full well that 1 John 5:7 is a deliberate ADDITION to the Greek text.

And the only way that the average Trinitarian Christian is going to HEAR the truth, is if more NON-Trinitarian Christians get involved in making videos on YouTube and on other social media platforms to show that the English translations are BIAS toward the doctrine of the Trinity.

With this last email, I will copy and paste it in my email. So instead of saying, Hi Mark, it will say, Hi Bob.

And then I will add my comments directly below each one of his comments and give a LINK to one of my in-depth studies on that verse of Scripture.

The words at the beginning that are in blue font color are what I wrote to Bob.

Hi Bob

You ask.

Just for my clarity.

You do indeed believe that the Son of God was created.

But we differ as to WHEN the Son of God was created.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I see that you are saying that the Son was created in the eternity past before anything ELSE was created.

And you base your view, understanding, position, and belief upon the verses that seem to be saying that Jesus created all things (Colossians 1:16,17 and " All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made." (John 1:3), and that the Son of God is the beginning of the creation of God, according to your understanding of Revelation 3:14, John 1:1 and Colossians 1:16,17.

So, to you, the created Son of God in the eternity past was sent down from heaven to WHAT?

Be incarnated into flesh? Become flesh? Take on flesh? Enter into or COME IN the flesh?

Below starts Bob’s words.

This is the way I understand it.

Yes, Jesus Christ is a created being scripture says so but not from the eternity past. Creation has a beginning, from the beginning of time outside of eternity for time itself is a creation.  

Jesus Christ is God’s first creation through whom he completed the rest of creation. Jesus Christ is the beginning of time to live forevermore. He existed with the father before the flesh as "THE WORD".

Rev_3:14  And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

He came down from heaven and become flesh in order to die the death of the flesh.

Joh 1:14  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 

Joh 6:38  For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 

Joh 3:13  And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 

Joh 6:33  For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

 1Jn 1:1  That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 

1Jn 1:2  (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;) 

Jesus Christ is the beginning of time, to live and reign forevermore. 

Heb 1:8  But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 

Heb 1:9  Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. 

Heb 1:10  And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: 

Heb 1:11  They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; 

Heb 1:12  And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy 

years shall not fail. 

Heb 1:13  But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? 

Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 

Joh 1:2  The same was in the beginning with God. 

Joh 1:3  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 

Col 1:15  Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 

Col 1:16  For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 

Col 1:17  And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 

Jesus Christ came in the flesh indicating origin from somewhere else.

1Jn 4:3  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 

2Jn 1:7  For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 

Heaven is outside of eternity, it is also a creation and part of it.

Col 1:16  For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 

Heb 1:10  And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: 

God the father is invisible but everything that is outside of eternity and created  is manifest it has substance an image if you wish something apparent to the beholder , though there are veils between dimensions . The son, the angels and the resurrection all have an incorruptible image {body} a manifestation in heaven and possess immortality.

1Co 15:44  It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 

Hi Bob.

I will be busy doing some other projects for a week or two.

So, I will answer your email when I get the time.

You have come a long way from being a Oneness believer.

Then a Trinitarian Believer.

And now to the correct understanding that the Son was created.

And the Son is God's Spokesperson. God's representative. God's King. God's Lord.

And if you remember back at our conversations, you held fast to the Oneness belief until God opened your eyes to see that it did not agree with the Scriptures.

Then you held fast and hard to the Trinitarian doctrine, until God opened your eyes to see that it also was not true.

And look at you now, you can clearly see that the Son was created, and all because of God opening your eyes to see.

Now, you know full well that Satan has blinded the minds of the Oneness Pentecostal Christians.

You know full well that Satan has blinded the minds of Trinitarian Christians.

And you also know full well that Satan has blinded the minds of the Jehovah's Witnesses.

But do you know that what you believe presently is almost exactly word for word what the Jehovah's Witnesses teach?

Yes, they also teach that the Son was the FIRST being that God Created before anything else was Created, the same as what you believe.

And they also use the same exact verses of Scriptures that you use as well.

What a coincidence.

Or is it a coincidence?

Just maybe, Satan has also deceived you as well.

Just like the Jehovah's Witnesses refuse to read any OTHER TRANSLATION of the Bible other than their own translation, you also have rejected every other meaning of the Greek words that DISAGREE with your present belief.

You hold fast to the King James Version as being the ONLY pure translation that has No ERRORS. But in truth, the KJV is one of the most Trinitarian BIASED Bibles ever translated.

The English translations before the KJV used the pronoun "IT" in John chapter 1 to refer back to the word, which was not always capitalized to force it to seem like a person.

Think about these facts for the next two weeks and we can pick back up where we left off on the ONE verse that I asked you to STICK with until we compare your interpretation to other verses and we compare my interpretation to other verses.

Is not COMPARING Scripture WITH Scripture what we are supposed to do?

Anyone can take verses out of their context and string them all in a line to prove just about any doctrine they can imagine.

Like you told me, MY interpretations are USELESS to you.

But if that were true, then you would STILL be a Oneness believer.

If my words are USELESS to you, then you would STLL be a hard core Doctrine of the Trinity Believe.

Now, I am not taking any of the glory to myself, for it was God who GAVE me the words to write to you.

Brother Mark.

Let’s fast forward past Bob’s emails on other subject to his Latest email to Bob on John 1:1c.

It is now March 11, 2026.

He said, I am only going to quote ONE verse:

Here is his email and my reply, which I plan to expand and write a NEW In-Depth Study on John Chapter 1, with a Verse-by-Verse Study on John 1:1-18, the STUMBLING Block of every Christian who believes that the Son of God existed BEFORE the Virgin Birth.

Hi Mark 

Im going to only Quote one scripture from the king James:

Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 

The previous verse states that the word was God. That indicates particle and article not a thought ,a phrase ,a saying nor a spoken word. The interlinear  agrees :

qeos theos G2316 n_ Nom Sg m God hn En G2258 vi Impf vxx 3 Sg WAS o ho G3588 t_ Nom Sg m THE logos logos G3056 n_ Nom Sg m saying word

Christ is the foundation of creation. 

Here is the thing, Bob — any verse of Scripture when viewed alone and apart from the rest of Scripture might seem, or even be made to seem, like it is saying something it was never intended to say. And John 1:1 is a perfect example of this.

I know that you base your faith on Scripture alone, and so do I. But we have a completely different understanding of John 1:1. 

I assume we both agree that Almighty God the Creator is not the author of confusion. And I’ll be honest with you, brother — I myself find some verses confusing when I read them through a Trinitarian mindset.

That’s why, along “with” Scripture, I also look at history to help me make what I believe is the correct choice. So please allow me to show you a little history of the English translations of the Bible, because it sheds a lot of light on how John 1:1 came to be read the way it is today. I will make it as brief as I can

A Brief History of How “Logos” Was Translated

Before the King James Version ever existed, the earliest English Bibles translated logos in John 1 as “it,” not “He.” 

The dogmatic doctrinal statement for the pronoun “he” came later, but only in the KJV at first. Before the KJV, the use of the Pronoun “it” was simply the natural way to translate the Greek word logos, which means saying, message, utterance, expression, word. It was not understood as a person, otherwise, every single verse with the word “logos” has it wrong.

Here is the historical pattern:

• Wycliffe (1382): “it was in the beginning with God”

• Tyndale (1526): “all things were made by it”

• Coverdale (1535): “all things were made by it”

• Matthew’s Bible (1537): “all things were made by it”

• Great Bible (1539): “all things were made by it”

• Geneva Bible (1560): “all things were made by it”

• Bishops’ Bible (1568): “all things were made by it”

The Bishops’ Bible is important because the King James Version was required to follow it closely. In fact, the KJV translators copied large portions of the Bishops’ Bible word‑for‑word.

And yet — the KJV changed “it” to “him.”

That was not a linguistic decision between the translators.

It was a theological one. In other words it was a theory, just like the doctrine of the Trinity is a theory or a theological “point of view”.

Also, the 1611 edition had many marginal notes, but they all slowly vanished from the KJV we have today.

The King James Version and Its Margin Notes

The original 1611 KJV had thousands of marginal notes. Many of them were disclaimers, alternate translations, or warnings not to build doctrine on certain verses. The translators were honest enough to admit in most cases that when a verse was uncertain or could be read more than one way.

They even wrote in their preface that they did not want their translation to be treated as perfect or final.

Here is the key point:

John 1:1 had no marginal note.

Why?

Because the translators were not free to “question” the traditional Trinitarian Doctrine. And if they would have placed an alternative reading in the margin of John 1:1, then they may have lost their heads.

King James himself gave strict instructions that the translation must support the doctrine of the Church of England. They were not allowed to challenge the deity‑of‑Christ interpretation in John 1:1.

So the absence of a marginal note in John 1:1 is not proof of certainty — it is proof of political pressure.

If you want to see the original 1611 margin notes, the most neutral and complete source is the digital scans of the 1611 KJV available through:

• The King James Bible Online (1611 edition scans)

• The Internet Archive (full photographic facsimile of the 1611 printing)

• The Center for the Study of New Testament Manuscripts (CSNTM)

These sites simply show the original pages without commentary.

And yes — when you read those notes, you can almost feel the translators saying, in a very political way:

“We wash our hands of this. We are doing what we were ordered to do.”

They were obeying man, not God’s Spirit.

Why this particularly matters for John 1:1.

When we read John 1:1 in isolation, especially in a translation shaped by later Trinitarian theology, it can sound like the Word is a second divine person. Hence, the very reason for the KJV translators to change “the word” to “the Word”. Why not change it to all caps to say “the WORD”. That be saying the WORD is Yahweh Himself. All three are “Translations”, the very point I am trying to get across to you.

But when we read it:

• in Greek

• in context

• in light of early translations

• and in harmony with the rest of Scripture

a different picture emerges.

The Greek text says:

θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος  

theos ēn ho logos

But θεός has no article here.

John did not write:

ὁ λόγος ἦν ὁ θεός  

the Word was the God

If he had written that, it would mean the Word is the Father Himself.

Instead, John used the form that means:

• a god

• godlike

• divine

• of God’s nature

• God’s own expression

This is why the Coptic translation — taught by the Apostle Mark himself — reads:

“the Word was a god.”

That’s not a Jehovah’s Witness translation.

The Coptic people were discipled by the Apostle Mark.

And according to their translation, they understood Jesus to be a god and not THE Almighty God Himself.

And the Coptic Bible is one of the earliest Christian translations on earth.

There is no debating this: we have “two choices”.

#1. Stay with the church tradition of the Trinity understanding.

#2. Truly consider that the Apostle John intended John 1:1 to be understood as: “and a god was the word.” (Of prophecy)

Only one of these two choices is correct.

I firmly believe that #2 fits smoothly with the rest of Scripture.

So, Bob, here are the two choices as plainly as I can lay them out.

Choice 1 — The Saying Came to Pass (My View)

• The logos is God’s speech, message, plan, prophetic utterance just like logos is understood to be in over 100 other verses.

• It “was” in the beginning — not “is”

• It “became flesh” when fulfilled in Jesus

• Jesus is the human Son whom God later made both Lord and Christ

• Jesus is exalted by His God

• Jesus sits beside His God

• Jesus calls the Father my God even after resurrection

• Jesus is given all authority, yet remains subject to His God

This view harmonizes with the entire New Testament, as well as the prophecies in the Old Testament.

Choice 2 — The Word WAS God Himself (Your View)

I say (your view) because if the Word is God and “IF” there is only ONE God, then the Word must without fail be the ALMIGHTY God Himself.

If you choose this understanding of John 1:1, then you must also accept the consequences:

God now becomes the AUTHOR of confusion if you are honest with yourself and with God.

• John 1:14 means God Himself became flesh

• That requires two Gods — one staying in heaven, one becoming flesh — two separate persons “called” God, but only one person is called God all the time and the Son of called God after the cross and never before the cross

• The logos became flesh and is no longer God Himself

• Jesus is God who is anointed by his God

• God prays to God

• God obeys God

• God heals because God is with God

• God offered himself up to God

• God resurrects God

• God exalts God

• God sits at the right hand of God

Brother Bob, to me, that’s not Scripture. That is utter confusion.

I choose to believe that God is NOT the author of confusion.

Theological men are the cause of the two natures of Jesus at the same time due to their listening to God’s enemy. Oh, God did not mean that, God meant this. Philosophical reasoning influenced by Satan.

The Catholic Church became a theological system trying to force Scripture to fit the invented Trinity Doctrine by “cherry picking” the meanings of the Greek and Hebrew that supports the Trinity theory. And also the Reformed Theology that God is the CAUSE of all evil can be seen in modern Bibles following the KJV as their base.

The Final Point

John tells us plainly why he wrote his Gospel:

“that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ,

the Son of God.”

— John 20:31

Not:

• “that Jesus is God Himself”

• “that the Word is the Almighty”

• “that the Son is the Father”

• “That the Son is the Only True God”

John 1:1 is one verse, and it does not stand alone.

There is no second witness anywhere in Scripture that says:

“the Word was God Himself.”

But there are hundreds that say:

• Jesus is the Son of God

• Jesus has a God

• Jesus was sent by God

• Jesus was exalted by God

• Jesus sits at God’s right hand

• God is the Head of Christ

And that is why I choose the readings that harmonize with all of Scripture, not the one that stands alone and creates confusion.

The word is an it and not a he, until the word became flesh.

You are a very intelligent man, Bob.

“If John had intended John 1:3 to mean the creation of the entire universe in eternity past, he had clear Greek vocabulary available — such as pragma or ti/tis — which literally mean ‘a thing’ or ‘things.’ 

But he did not use any of those words. There is no definite Greek word at all to be translated as the word ‘things’ in John 1:3! The translators “chose” to add the word “things,” And again, they were under King Jame’s directive to not challenge the Trinity doctrine.

You can see that the Literal translation from the same Greek text does not add the word “things” in John 1:3.

I am in the process of writing a Verse-by-Verse study of John Chapter 1, or at least the first 18 verses, to show side by side different translations.

Once you see that the beginning in John 1:1 is after the angels rebelled and you “allow” the “logos” to remain the words that came out from God’s mouth, just as it means in every other verse except for the 7 places MAN has capitalized the word to the Word to make it seem as a pre-existing God the Son who became flesh. Then light comes and you can see the many contradictions that the Trinity causes with the rest of Scripture.

Brother Mark.

                Here is Bob’s reply back to me!

He has gone back to being a Modalist Christian where the One God supposedly manifests Himself in three different Modes of existence.

He has returned to denying the doctrine of the Trinity completely which I also do. However, I deny Modalism as well, because the Scriptures clearly teach us that the Son is NOT the Father nor a "mode" of existence as the Father.

So, to me, Bob and all other Modalist Christians DENY the Son as truly being God’s Son as a separate being from his God and Father.

I have spent well over a year reasoning together with Bob, and he thinks that I am trying to trick him into denying that Jesus has always existed as God’s Son in the form of the Word.

He refuses to accept that the KJV has errors in translations.

So. I commit him into the hands of Almighty God and His now Glorified human Son to opening his eyes of understandinging. I will quote his email now and pray that none of my readers will become deceived to fall into the snare of the enemy to believe the errors that Bob has fallen prey to wrongly believe.

The Human Son of God was VISITED morning after morning by the Spirit of the Father to TEACH Jesus as a CHILD that the Scriptures testify of him as being the fulfillment of the Scriptures, according to Isaiah 50:4-11 and Psalm 8:1-6.

In verses 1-3. Yahweh the Creator, who is the Father ALONE CAME as the ANOINTING to DWELL in the FLESH of Jesus ANOINTED at his baptism.

And both the Modalist Christians and the Trinitarian Christians DENY the TRUE ANOINTING of the fully Human Son of the Creator.

Isaiah 50:3-11.

“The Lord GOD has given me the tongue of the learned, that I should know how to speak a word in season to him that is weary: He wakens morning by morning, (Or Yahweh VISISTED the Son of Man every day as a CHILD before the Son of Man was ANOINTED with Yahweh’s Spirit to remain with him continually by DWELLING in him) He wakens my ear to hear as the learned. 

Isaiah 50:5. The Lord GOD has opened my ear, and I was not rebellious, neither turned away back. 

Isaiah 50:6. I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting. 

Isaiah 50:7. For the Lord GOD will help me; therefore shall I not be confounded: therefore, have I set my face like a flint, and I know that I shall not be ashamed. 

Isaiah 50:8. He is near that JUSTIFIES me; who will contend with me? Let us stand together: who is my adversary? Let him come near to me.

Isaiah 50:9. Behold, the Lord GOD will help me; who is he that shall condemn me? Lo, they all shall wax old as a garment; the moth shall eat them up. 

Isaiah 50:10. Who is among you that fears the LORD, that obeys the voice of His servant, that walks in darkness, and has no light? Let him trust in the NAME of the LORD, and stay upon His God. (In other words, MANY have obeyed the Gospel to become born-again Christians, but SOME walk in DARKNESS and have no LIGHT. Yahweh the Father and His now glorified Son are pleading with those Christians who walk in darkness to TRUST in the NEW NAME that Yahweh GAVE to His Human Son to be made a Lord, a King, and a God to rule over the whole earth as the Creator’s NEW God, who has REPLACED Satan for the purpose of JUDGING the world by the MAN He ORDAINED and raised from the grave, according to Acts 17:29-31)

Isaiah 50:11. Behold, all you that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that you have kindled. This shall you have of my hand; you shall lie down in sorrow.”

Brother Mark.

Here is Bob’s reply back to me! Do NOT be DECEIVED by Bob's "interpretation" of the Scriptures!

He has gone back to being a Modalist Christian where where the One God manifests Himself in three different Modes of existence.

He has returned to denying the doctrine of the Trinity completely.

To me, he is denying the Son as truly being God’s Son as a separate being from his God and Father.

I have spent well over a year reasoning together with Bob, and he thinks that I am trying to trick him into denying that Jesus has always existed as God’s Son in the form of the Word.

He refuses to accept that the KJV has errors in translations.

So. I commit him into the hands of Almighty God and His now Glorified human Son to opening his eyes of understandinging. I will quote his email now and pray that none of my readers will become deceived to fall into the snare of the enemy to believe the errors that Bob has fallen prey to wrongly believe.

The Human Son of God was VISITED morning after morning by the Spirit of the Father to TEACH Jesus as a CHILD that the Scriptures testify of him as being the fulfillment of the Scriptures, according to Isaiah 50:4-11 and Psalm 8:1-6.

In verses 1-3. Yahweh the Creator, who is the Father ALONE CAME as the ANOINTING to DWELL in the FLESH of Jesus ANOINTED at his baptism.

And both the Modalist Christians and the Trinitarian Christians DENY the TRUE ANOINTING of the fully Human Son of the Creator.

Isaiah 50:3-11.

“The Lord GOD has given me the tongue of the learned, that I should know how to speak a word in season to him that is weary: He wakens morning by morning, (Or Yahweh VISISTED the Son of Man every day as a CHILD before the Son of Man was ANOINTED with Yahweh’s Spirit to remain with him continually by DWELLING in him) He wakens my ear to hear as the learned. 

Isaiah 50:5. The Lord GOD has opened my ear, and I was not rebellious, neither turned away back. 

Isaiah 50:6. I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting. 

Isaiah 50:7. For the Lord GOD will help me; therefore shall I not be confounded: therefore, have I set my face like a flint, and I know that I shall not be ashamed. 

Isaiah 50:8. He is near that JUSTIFIES me; who will contend with me? Let us stand together: who is my adversary? Let him come near to me.

Isaiah 50:9. Behold, the Lord GOD will help me; who is he that shall condemn me? Lo, they all shall wax old as a garment; the moth shall eat them up. 

Isaiah 50:10. Who is among you that fears the LORD, that obeys the voice of His servant, that walks in darkness, and has no light? Let him trust in the NAME of the LORD, and stay upon His God. (In other words, MANY have obeyed the Gospel to become born-again Christians, but SOME walk in DARKNESS and have no LIGHT. Yahweh the Father and His now glorified Son are pleading with those Christians who walk in darkness to TRUST in the NEW NAME that Yahweh GAVE to His Human Son to be made a Lord, a King, and a God to rule over the whole earth as the Creator’s NEW God, who has REPLACED Satan for the purpose of JUDGING the world by the MAN He ORDAINED and raised from the grave, according to Acts 17:29-31)

Isaiah 50:11. Behold, all you that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that you have kindled. This shall you have of mine hand; you shall lie down in sorrow.”

Brother Mark.

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Hi Mark

I understand where you come from Mark and I see what you are doing to prove it, You are sowing confusion.

You quote me the king James and tell me it is false by quoting the Interlinear as proof.. Now you are telling me the interlinear is incorrect by quoting the Coptic as proof.

You have developed an agenda to  channel a narrative or vice-versa   You keep telling me I am viewing single verses alone and apart. That is disingenuous of you .  I quoted the single verse to prove to you that both the interlinear and the KJV stated the same thing. You implored me to check out the interlinear and I did. Now you quote the coptic. I have quoted pages of scripture that support the scripture in question, previously.

Now you quote a single verse John 1:1 and tell me how you interpret it. You keep accusing  me of reading scripture through a trinitarian mind. I am not a trinitarian and have never quoted it as proof . You keep trying to pigeon hole me. 

So lets start over with one verse ,the following scripture with Jesus at 12 years old claiming to be the son of God.

Luk 2:48  And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.
Luk 2:49  And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business? 

I dont know how many times I have quoted the following scriptures,what I believe , numerous times. The following is one entity ,one person. with multiple offices ,this is not trinitarianism

Isa 9:6  For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 

Isa 43:11  I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. 

Isa 45:21  Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. 

Isa 45:22  Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 

Isa 46:9  Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 

Deu 4:35  Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him. 

Deu 4:39  Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else. 

There is one God there is none formed before or after him:

Isa 43:10  Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. 

From the beginning to the end the same single God. The following is the son speaking. The only God ever seen by man or who ever communicated with man is "THE WORD" or "THE SON" which are two seperate manifested images of the invisible spirit God . One heavenly and one earthly. As the spirits of all men have two manifested images one heavenly and one earthly . On earth he is a living soul . In heaven he has a presence called an angel, a quikening spirit ,immortal and incorruptible. The next verse is the son speaking he claims there is no God besides him. He could only say that if he was defacto God.

Isa 44:6  Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. 

Rev 1:11  Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. 

Rev 1:8  I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. 

Rev 1:17  And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

The trinity theory and the two God theory don't agree with scripture. If you want to peg me ,call me a modalist, for there is one spirit between the father and the son,no other spirit is ever mentioned in scripture. When spirit is mentioned in scripture applied to God ,that single spirit is applied to both father and son or one or the other. The father and son are one as scripture has stated numerous times. That statement to me has a dual meaning considering the scriptures I have quoted. That statement  contains a spiritual connotation and also has a literal factual existential meaning.

I don't mind being called a modalist or any name associated with it for it is a definition defined by those who espouse trinitarianism, which I deny. It is a moniker placed by trinitarians  upon a person who believes that there is one spirit God that occupies more than one office.

Christ is the spirit.

Rev 2:7  He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. 

Rev 2:11  He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death. 

Rev 2:17  He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it. 

Rev 2:29  He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. 

Rev 3:13  He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. 

Rev 3:1  And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. 

Rev 3:6  He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. 

Rev 3:22  He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. 

1Co 10:3  And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Co 10:4  And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 

Joh 15:26  But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 

Joh 16:7  Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 

Christ only left for ten days then he was back.

The spirit of God is Christ dwelling in us. 

The closed loop through one spirit.

Joh 6:44  No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. 

Mat_11:27  All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

No man has ever seen God in the spirit .

 In the old testament the only God man has seen or communicated with is "THE WORD" which is the manifested image of God,his personal visible presence, his personal angel. In the new testament God was seen and communicated with man through his flesh image Jesus the man, Gods personal earthly presence.

Christ did the following  of his own accord:

Php 2:5  Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Php 2:6  Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Php 2:7  But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Php 2:8  And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 

Joh 1:14  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 

Yet he taught in the temple at 12 years old and acknowledged that he was the son of God. Mary knew this but how did Jesus know? Mary did not reveal this to Jesus for she hide the knowledge she had.

Luk 2:48  And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.
Luk 2:49  And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business? 

The previous scripture is to demonstrate that Jesus the man had and possessed and declared that which many deny him, long before his baptism by the holy spirit.. His deity as the son of God. God knew there would be those who would deny Jesus his deity 

I see no problem with calling the spirit of God "It" for there is no gender nor physical form involved. ,but that does not exclude it from having particle and article for God as spirit is a living entity. It so happens that the "it" created an image for himself after which men are made. That image is also that which the angels are created after . All angels and God himself that have appeared to men  have appeared in the shape of male humans. There are no female images in which God and the angels have appeared in. So it is no stretch of the imagination why God is called "HE" in scripture. The "IT" is not referred to as "HE" "I AM" until "IT" appears in his manifest image in John 1:1 . That image is his personal angelic {form] manifestation called "THE WORD". It is a physical observable presence of an invisible spirit. A spirit existing in a container called a body, and the combination is called a living soul.

Lev_26:11  And I will set my tabernacle among you: and my soul shall not abhor you.
Lev_26:30  And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you.

Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2  The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 

That image ,his personal angelic form is called "THE WORD" the living soul that is God.

The universe is a physical creation. But Gods first physical creation is his own physical image through which he created the rest of the physical universe. At the moment he created his physical image time began. It is how and when the invisible spirit God forged forth  out of eternity. The process had a beginning.

Rev_3:14  And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

You have this propensity to interpret in your opinion. You box me in and restrict me in your opinion according to how you believe what I believe . I know what I believe but you will never see that because you have your own belief. The spirit God is not restricted as you see him as if he were in the flesh. The spirit is omnipotent ,omniscient, omnipresent ,all knowing ,all seeing ,aware of time from the beginning to the end all at once. You restrict him the "IT" as being only capable of being either in heaven or earth and not everywhere at once. Your beliefs put restrictions on God  and deny him his divinity as you deny Jesus his. You simply don't or wont  believe and probably cant because you restrict God as if he is in the flesh. He came in the flesh but he was more. You call this confusion and I understand.

You may worship two Gods but I worship one God as scripture says I must, one who fulfills three offices . I can worship father and son as they are the same God and implore the holy spirit as well. It doesn't matter whose name I call upon. The father the son or the "IT". They are known as the great "I AM".

I dont know which bible you study from but my bible is full of marginal notes. I study from the companion bible and Esword on my computer.

Please don't accuse me of being a one horse charlie I believe I have put that horse to rest.

Here is my reply back to Bob after he wrote another email asking if I belief God was Glorified to sit on the throne or if the Lamb slain and unrecognizable was Glorified to sit on the throne.

In the very first line of that reply, I said the Lamb is always shown to be a mortal human being before the cross. And added that I do not believe that God became a Man.

Bod replied saying I do not like giving a straight answer, because I used several verses to explain WHY I do not believe God became the Son of Man.

Here is my reply to that email.

Hi Bob.

I said:: The Lamb who was slain is always shown as a mortal human being, until after his brutal death on the cross.

I do not see God becoming flesh. 

I have shown you before: Numbers 23:19 and Hosea 11:1,9 before. God is not a man and neither is God the Son of man that he should REPENT.

Think about WHY would God have to repent if he was the Son of Man.

God put verse 19 in the mouth of Balaam to speak to Balak, which means WASTER that also means DESTROYER. And to me, that is a figure or picture of Satan, Apollyon, the destroyer.

G623

Ἀπολλύων

Apolluōn

ap-ol-loo'-ohn

Active participle of G622; a destroyer (that is, Satan): - Apollyon. Rev. 9:11 (What a coincidence 9/11, the twin towers destroyed)

Total KJV occurrences: 1

So, this proverb in Numbers 23:19 is being spoken to Satan who blasphemed God's NAME.

Therefore, if God became the Son of Man then He would be a LIAR and God would have to REPENT to Satan.

Again, God MADE MAN and the Son of MAN to STILL His ENEMY and the AVENGER.

Psa 8:1  To the chief Musician upon Gittith, A Psalm of David. O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens. 

Psa 8:2  Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger. 

Psa 8:3  When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; 

Psa 8:4  What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of MAN, that thou visitest him? 

Psa 8:5  For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. 

Psa 8:6  Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:

Hebrews 2:5-9:

For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. 

Heb 2:6  But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? 

Heb 2:7  Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: (WHO did Yahweh MAKE? It was the Son of MAN, Jesus! What is the context about in verse 5? It is about Yahweh NOT giving the dominion over the Earth during the world to come)

Heb 2:8  Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. (Because we are NOT YET in the age to come)

Heb 2:9  But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, (Not just death but brutally MURDERED as an INNOCENT MAN by God's Enemy, that had he KNOWN God would MAKE the Son of MAN Lord over the whole Earth, he would not have crucified Jesus) crowned with glory and honour; that (Or more correctly translated BECAUSE) he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. 

Heb 2:10  For it became him, (Yahweh the Creator) for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to MAKE the captain of their salvation PERFECT through sufferings. 

Now, you can explain  AWAY Numbers 23:19 and Hosea 11:1,9 to hold fast to your belief that God manifested Himself to become a MAN.

But I am not going to, because if I am WRONG by saying these verses do NOT mean what the clearly state, then I would be calling Yahweh a LIAR.

Therefore, I chose to take a CLOSER LOOK at all the verses where it seems God Himself was made flesh.

To me, God MADE the Son of Man who is the fulfillment of the Prophecies in the Scriptures. 

Lo, I COME in the Volume of THE Book---Psalm 40:7 and Hebrews 10:7.

This was done that it might be FULFILLED.

It is WRITTEN...

Jesus said the Scriptures (The OLD Testament) testify of me.

And I do not find any Prophecy of God coming down from heaven to become man or the Son of Man.

So again, I do NOT believe that God Glorified sits on the Throne at the Right-Hand Side of God the Father.

Rather, it was the Son of MAN who ENTERED INTO Glory, according to Jesus himself in Luke 24:25, 26.

Luk 24:25  Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: 

Luk 24:26  Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? 

I Believe that the Father is the Eternal Spirit who alone is the Creator of the universe.

And I believe that the context in John chapter 1 and also in Colossians chapter 1 is about God's NEW Creation being created IN Jesus Anointed and NOT BY Jesus, but rather IN him are the ALL  being created.

Because Ephesians 2:9 clearly teaches that God is the one doing the creating of ALL believers IN Anointed Jesus.

Christians read right over the NAME in John 3:18, whosever believes in the NAME.

Joh 3:18  He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the NAME of the only begotten Son of God. 

Jesus was GIVEN a NEW NAME after the cross, according to Philippians 2:8-11, BECAUSE he obeyed his God even to suffering death on the cross.

Here are the Prophecy and the Fulfillment:

Isa_62:2  And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou SHALL be CALLED by a NEW NAME which the mouth of the LORD (Yahweh) SHALL NAME.

Rev_3:12  Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the NAME of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my NEW NAME.

And here is Proverbs 30:4 where God asks us the questions:

What is MY NAME? The obvious answer is Yahweh.

And what is My Son's NAME if you can tell?

Here are the Prophecies, which means in the FUTURE, these are the names that the Messiah SHALL BE CALLED.

Jeremiah 23:5,6.

Jer 23:5  Behold, the days come, (Speaking of the 3 one thousand year long days, 2,000 years in this present world and the 3rd day during the world to come) saith the LORD (Yahweh), that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. 

Jer 23:6  In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this IS his NAME whereby he SHALL BE CALLED, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. (Or Yahweh our Righteousness)

Remember that Jesus said he will write his God's NAME on us who believe and overcome.

Here is the Prophecy.

Jeremiah 33:14-16.

Jer 33:14  Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah. (Judah is a figure of the Church)

Jer 33:15  In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; (Speaking of the days of his FLESH) and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land. (Speaking of the return of the Gloried MAN to rule in righteousness in the NAME of Yahweh during the world to come, the 3rd day)

Jer 33:16  In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the NAME wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness. (Or Yahweh our Righteousness, the SAME NAME given to Jesus after the cross and resurrection, which is WHEN Thomas said my Lord and my God)

Here is another Prophecy where the Holy One of Israel shall be called the God of the WHOLE Earth.

Isa 54:5  For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; AND thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth SHALL he BE CALLED. 

Isaiah 9:6,7 is another Prophecy where his NAME SHALL BE CALLED the Mighty God, WHEN the government shall be laid upon his shoulder. And in verse 7 it is Yahweh who PERFORMS or brings to pass His words of Prophecy.

Isa 9:5  For every battle of the warrior is with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood; but this shall be with burning and fuel of fire. 

Isa 9:6  For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government SHALL BE upon his shoulder: and his NAME SHALL BE CALLED Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. (This is speaking about the NEW NAME GIVEN to the Son of MAN, Jesus, after the cross, the NAME that is HIGHER than any other NAME. And every knee during the world to come shall bow to the NAME and call Jesus Lord to the GLORY of Almighty God the Father.)

Isa 9:7  Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this. 

Isa 62:2  And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a NEW NAME, which the mouth of the LORD SHALL NAME. 

Isa 62:3  Thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the LORD, and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God. 

Isa 62:4  Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken;...

Isaiah chapters 42 through 53 are about God’s HUMAN Servant being EXALTED and Glorified to be made a partaken of the Divine Nature of Immortality, which is ALSO promised to us if we are found to be good and faithful servants.

Psalm 2 and Psalm 110:1-4 are both Prophecies about the HUMAN Son being set on Yahweh’s throne to be made a King.

Here is another Prophecy where the Messiah will stand and rule in MAJESTY in the NAME of Yahweh his God. You can see the timing as being WHEN this man shall bring PEACE, which is during the world to come.

Mic 5:4  And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the NAME of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth. 

Mic 5:5  And this man shall be the peace, when the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men. 

Mic 5:6  And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall he deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our borders. 

So again, I believe that Jesus is a highly exalted human being. The first human to be given eternal life.

I do not believe God became a man or manifested Himself in a mode of existence as the Son of God.

I see a MAN who was anointed with the Holy Spirit and power, who made a choice of his own free will in order to do his God’s will to die on the cross.

I see that his God placed a JOY before him to endure the cross, according to Hebrews 12:2.

I see TWO beings in heaven after the cross and resurrection that rule together in the ONE NAME, the name Yahweh that Yahweh gave to Jesus where Yahweh the Father is still the HEAD and God over Jesus.

A NEW NAME is a name you never had before!

Brother Mark.