Episode 5

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Transcript

Hello, and welcome to “If Socrates Had a Podcast”! I am your host, Vinay Kalva. This is my fifth episode, so I have decided to do something special to honor the occasion. 

Socrates has turned storyteller, and with a worthy interlocutor will provide you with a deeper view of his travels than you might get from the normal intermission. Please note that this episode is entirely fictional, and that the events described, while perhaps related in some way to actual history, are highly unlikely to have happened, if they ever did. 

Having disclaimed as required, I would now like to briefly discuss some details about this story: where it came from, and who is in it. The source of this story, as far as I can tell, is a bizarre stone fragment that your host found on the ground while wandering and doing his daily deeds. After speaking with an expert historian who requested to remain anonymous, the fragment was revealed to be the tale I am about to tell you. The writer, of course, was a member of the interlocutor’s court, who did not write their name on the document for some reason.

I therefore bring to you, my listeners, a dialogue between Socrates and Emperor Pedro II. Socrates is the namesake of this podcast, as always. Emperor Pedro II, meanwhile, was, in actual history, the second and final emperor of the Empire of Brazil. I will play the parts of both characters, inflecting my voice as follows when I am Socrates (inflect “I am Socrates”) and as follows when I am Emperor Pedro II: (inflect “I am Emperor Pedro II”). With that, let us begin the story.

EMPEROR PEDRO II: And who might this man be?

SOCRATES: I have had to hide my identity for far too long. I see, though, that you are a ruler, and the brightest of them, so I shall riddle you. Who, Emperor, might you think I am?

EMPEROR PEDRO II: I believe I recognize you very well. Are you the leader of Athens, the famed Pericles?

SOCRATES: If only I were Pericles. I am a simple man, who knows very little in all areas and most especially in areas of statecraft.

EMPEROR PEDRO II: I have been provided a clue. You must be – indeed, you are – Socrates.

SOCRATES: Your Majesty, you are correct. I am Socrates.

EMPEROR PEDRO II: I have read all of your dialogues; meeting the man himself is a great honor. I have worked with and met the best of society in this world where I live, but to see a man come from so far away, in time and place, and meet him is another matter entirely.

SOCRATES: I am as bewildered as you that we are here. However, it will do us little good to dwell on that subject for now, so I suggest we turn elsewhere.

EMPEROR PEDRO II: When I was informed that you were to be in my court, I asked my idle staff to take upon the duties I exercised, so that I could entertain you to the most. Here is some food and drink, if you so wish, Socrates; also, if you so wish, I ask you to tell me how you arrived here, all the way from Greece. To travel from the eastern Mediterranean Sea, through the Atlantic, to Rio de Janeiro is no easy feat, even for a man such as yourself.

SOCRATES: It certainly was. I suppose it will be easier if I split this into three parts. Your Majesty, you may also interrupt me should you have any questions.

EMPEROR PEDRO II: Proceed if you will, please. I await hearing your story.

SOCRATES: I will start, then, by telling you about the journey through the Eastern Mediterranean. It would be wonderful if it were as simple as the Odyssey, but alas, it was not.

EMPEROR PEDRO II: Statesmen like myself quite despise salami tactics, but my dear friend, I suggest you consider it.

SOCRATES: Alas, I have not sliced and diced my tale to your liking. So I shall. It all began at the Academy, where I had announced my departure to meet you. I had told my many students that I wished to meet the best of them, Dom Pedro II, Emperor of Brazil, and bring him along so that perhaps he could lecture to the politically and scientifically inclined in Athens. Most were quite elated; I do not know if everyone was, quite unfortunately. Having made my remarks, and confirming that the time was right, I went on my way to Piraeus. Walking along, I met one of my students who had followed me: Aristotle. He asked me where I was going, and I told him that I was going to a faraway land. He insisted on joining me, however, and we thus walked and walked all the way to Piraeus.

EMPEROR PEDRO II: You are fortunate to have not suffered the fate of that fellow Pheidippides. Otherwise you would not be here.

SOCRATES: Indeed I am. I am grateful to the gods that I did not suffer his fate. 

EMPEROR PEDRO II: Nevertheless, Socrates, I would like to know what you discussed with Aristotle. I have read all of Aristotle.

SOCRATES: Well, it would be quite bizarre had I done the same given historical distance. Nevertheless, we had a very fruitful discussion about – well, I don’t seem to recall for some reason. I know it was something to do about one of those books Aristotle wrote.

EMPEROR PEDRO II: Was it the Poetics?

SOCRATES: I believe so. Focusing on that was a difficult matter, for there was quite a scene in the city.

EMPEROR PEDRO II: What was this scene? Hopefully it has little to nothing to do with me.

SOCRATES: Alas, the entire city was in a frenzy over a war. A war which you should be all too familiar with. Thucydides wrote about it.

EMPEROR PEDRO II: The Peloponnesian War? How did you survive? And how were you and Aristotle around for that?

SOCRATES: Excellent question, for before we commenced discussing the Peloponnesian War Aristotle and I had both, of course, discussed this matter. As is standard, at the end of our lives we had each entered the underworld separately. As we were to face the wrath of Cerberus, we were blindfolded and felt ourselves being lifted. When the blindfolds were removed, we found ourselves in the finest palace there could be. In front of us was a man, who appeared perfect in speech and appearance, and a woman, who seemed similarly perfect. They looked silently at us, waiting for us to speak or ask a question. As Aristotle came after me, I do not know what happened to him. In my own situation, I was quite bewildered, and cried out: “Who are you? Why have you taken me here, and prevented me from facing my rightful end?”

EMPEROR PEDRO II: Why would you say such a thing? Had you reached your supposed “rightful end”, you would not be here, and I would not be able to hear your wonderful tale.

SOCRATES: Quite unfortunately, you are correct. However, at the time I believed otherwise, and I stand before you here telling you the tale as it unfolded and as I know, without judgment or interpretation.

EMPEROR PEDRO II: I must let you proceed. I have no questions.

SOCRATES: Thank you, Your Majesty. The man of perfect appearance and speech was none other than Zeus, and the woman of perfect appearance and speech was none other than Athena. Zeus told me that he had heard the Apology himself, and was quite distressed to see a Greek be forced to drink the hemlock on spurious grounds. Athena, meanwhile, praised my devotion to the gods, and agreed to aid me in a way that was not apparent then, but would soon become apparent. Having told me what I have told you, they turned away from me and whispered to each other. While they were, a man tapped me hard on the back of my shoulder, and I rapidly turned around. It was none other than Aristotle.

EMPEROR PEDRO II: That reminds me, Socrates. Why are you all alone? Did my guards arrest Aristotle?

SOCRATES: Thankfully, that is untrue. Aristotle decided that a long journey across the ocean was not to his liking, and he opted to keep working on the Poetics.

EMPEROR PEDRO II: I sure hope that he manages to succeed at it. Come to think of it, I have not quite gotten to the Poetics yet, so perhaps when I do I will find out the answer to that question.

SOCRATES: Now, if you will excuse me, Your Majesty, I would like to continue my tale. Aristotle, having tapped me on the shoulder, proceeded to tell me how he came to the palace. His testimony was quite similar to my experiences, as I have said, so I will spare you the details.

EMPEROR PEDRO II: Now tell me, Socrates, what did Zeus and Athena tell you after they conversed? When did they finish, first?

SOCRATES: The father and daughter whispered for what seemed to be many hours. I stood there thinking only of what they would say, in contrast to my usual work. My gifts, of course, can only be used in the service of the gods, and not otherwise, so I was quite agitated. The river of thought in my brain raged wildly for hours, and then it stopped in an instant.

EMPEROR PEDRO II: That is mysterious. Why did it happen?

SOCRATES: The answer, in this case, only comes from the events as they unfolded. After the thoughts stopped, I felt a calm pervading my entire body. My agitation went away immediately. Zeus and Athena whispered more rapidly than they had when I was agitated, but I felt no sense of nervousness whatsoever. At last, as a musical composition decrescendos to complete itself, their whispers became murmurs, and finally a silence.

EMPEROR PEDRO II:  All three of you, then, were silent. For how long?

SOCRATES: For a few minutes. However, the calm that had pervaded me slowly evaporated, and at last my internal tension was so much that I yelled, “What is it that you two will do with me? For hours on end you have left me indecisive, leaving me no room to question or think of anything else! Let me go, will you?! I had a fate, but not this! This is worse than Cerberus!”

EMPEROR PEDRO II: How did you manage to survive? Would not such an outburst result in immediate punishment from the gods?

SOCRATES: Normally it would, but today it seems the punishment was already ordained. Zeus and Athena stood stunned at me for a moment, and then both of them spoke. Zeus spoke first, saying that he knew I was devout, and my outburst had no place in his palace. Athena followed, and said that my outburst would only increase the punishment they had devised for me. Then the two came together and said the following: “We, on behalf of the gods and all of Greekdom, appreciate your duty to the land and to us, and express our sorrow over your untimely and unmerited death. However, having seen the trial that your student Plato wrote of in the Apology, and recognizing that a failure to show devotion outwardly is a sin, we have decided to present you and your students with a punishment. The punishment shall be that you will witness the end of the civilization you lived in, and you shall be defenseless to stop it. Should you intervene, you will face the wrath of Cerberus once again.”

EMPEROR PEDRO II: What a punishment, dear Socrates! Now I wonder even more how you are here.

SOCRATES: Certainly I shall tell you, Your Majesty. However, my throat is parched, and I must drink.

EMPEROR PEDRO II: Let us go around the palace. I will fetch you water, and you may see the residence.

SOCRATES: Thank you, Your Majesty. Let us proceed.

This regularly scheduled program is interrupted for a short break.

Dear listeners,

You may now be wondering how it was that Socrates was able to meet Emperor Pedro II. The answer is a surprising one, for their friendship extended over many millenia. When analyzing the fragment upon which the story I am telling you was present, I was informed by my very excellent assistants that they had found another fragment, a parchment one. It was nailed to the back of the stone where the stone fragment was. I have interpreted this fragment in detail, and have found that it contains the answer and explanation for this question. Here is the story it tells.

Emperor Pedro II was tired. He had been working nonstop, and he badly needed a break. He thus told his staff to take over his work for some time, so that he could walk amongst the ordinary people and learn of their troubles, rather than cycling through the next round of paperwork and decrees. Thus, with only his bodyguard and confidante, the Emperor left his palace and walked about the streets. He then came across a very interesting crowd, sitting in front of a stage. Upon that stage, two individuals were engaging in a philosophical dialogue, perhaps based upon the ones written by Plato. The Emperor was a learned man, and had read those dialogues many times before. He had never, however, seen them performed before, and was intrigued. Before the audience could find out who he was, he walked to the other end of the street, to a point where he could get a good view. Thus, he listened to the dialogue proceeding, on and on as it went, until the audience erupted in applause. The first audience member, who had an urgent appointment to go to, got up from their seat and walked out. As they turned right, they saw the Emperor, and exclaimed: “Is that the Emperor?!” Others heard them, and turned around themselves. They then exclaimed: “That is the Emperor!” They also wondered why he was there, but had the good sense not to utter that bewilderment. Rather, before they did, the entire crowd erupted into applause, shouts of “Long live the Emperor!”, and more praise. Others on the street heard the commotion, came outside, and joined the frolicking too.

Meanwhile, Emperor Pedro II observed all of this commotion. He felt utter distress at the notion that his citizens were cheering for him so when he had left all his work behind. All that work was for them, he reasoned, and not doing it was the ultimate sin. What was all this celebration for? As that thought crossed his mind, the actor playing Socrates came up in front of him. The actor never saw him, but seemed to have read his mind. Standing in his robes, he exclaimed loudly, “Silence!” The boisterous crowd stopped cheering and celebrating, and became so silent that you could hear their heartbeats in unison. The actor then spoke, and said, “You have all thought that I was an actor playing Socrates. Well, I am here to tell you the truth: I am Socrates. I acted so well, because who is a better actor to play than yourself? The answer is none. In the name of Zeus and the other gods, I thank you all for your support, I wish that you all will consider what I have said, and I hope that you all will examine your life as you see fit.” The crowd then cheered loudly and dispersed, all the while examining their lives and why Socrates had come to speak to them.

It was at this moment that Emperor Pedro II saw what had happened. He asked his bodyguard and confidante to go up to Socrates, and ask him to speak to the Emperor. Thus the bodyguard and confidante went. Socrates, it seems, was most pleased to see the Emperor, and readily agreed to speak with him. Thus they walked to the palace together, where the tale that I am telling you began.

The rest, of course, is history. Now, there is another question that must be addressed: how exactly did this epic come to this platform? My research was intended to be published in a paper, yet somehow you are hearing me tell a story on a recording. Well, unfortunately, this podcast was a paper, and it was rejected by every journal it was sent to. No one wanted to publish it, for it seemed too fantastical to belong there. The book publishers also believed the story to be fantastical, and also refused publication. Thus only one option was left: audio, the means by which you are hearing this story now. However, storytelling is an art within defined space, so I will stop serving you this side dish here and let you consume the main course.

At this time, we now return to our regularly scheduled program.

SOCRATES: Thank you for the offering. Never have I tasted such fresh food.

EMPEROR PEDRO II: You lie, Socrates. Surely the Greeks had fresh food.

SOCRATES: Unfortunately I am a simple man, and I know very little in matters of lying. All I can say is the truth.

EMPEROR PEDRO II: I would never wish otherwise. Now, to the question I have nursed until now: why did the gods choose to let you come here?

SOCRATES: Well, legal chicanery got me out; Zeus and Athena had, without telling me, granted me the power to interpret their commands as I wished, as long as I did not change the ultimate consequence. By “witness”, the gods meant merely that I would be alive when civilization would be destroyed. Accordingly, I decided that it would be best if I left Greece promptly. Thus came the events of which I told you.

EMPEROR PEDRO II: And who told you of this?

SOCRATES: Aristotle himself.

EMPEROR PEDRO II: Now, as far as you have told me, you arrived at Piraeus. What then?

SOCRATES: Indeed, I had arrived at Piraeus. The port, given the context of the war, was quite busy, so Aristotle stopped and turned around a distance from the port. He wished me well, and I thus got on a ship.

EMPEROR PEDRO II: Who chartered this ship for you, Socrates? Did you do it yourself? Why, if I could have sent a messenger, I would have chartered a ship direct to Rio de Janeiro for you.

SOCRATES: I appreciate your kind efforts and regards, Your Majesty. The ship was chartered by my students. Obviously, for a lengthy journey across the Mediterranean Sea and the Atlantic Ocean, we needed to make stops. The crew and I thus decided that we would stop in Rome and Gades before proceeding, so that we had a sufficient stock of food for the long journey across the Atlantic.

EMPEROR PEDRO II: Did you have naval protection at all?

SOCRATES: I did not, Your Majesty. All the ships were allocated for wartime purposes, so I went defenseless; the ship had a surrender flag on the mast, and that was all the defense I had.

EMPEROR PEDRO II: I assume the journey went without issue from Rome to Gades, but what of Athens to Rome? And Gades to Rio de Janeiro?

SOCRATES: By the grace of the gods, you are correct, Your Majesty. From Piraeus to Rome we were accosted by a mysterious ship with no flag on it. I assumed it was a Spartan ship, or perhaps a Corinthian one. A neutral ship in these times is not neutral at all, but rather a prime suspect.

EMPEROR PEDRO II: Unfortunately it is. Now, about that ship. Did they attack you in any way?

SOCRATES: Absolutely not. They merely followed us. I was quite worried they would attack us by stealth, but even in the middle of the voyage – when they could have easily attacked us – they did not. Upon arriving in Rome I found out that the boat was populated by another refugee, his slaves, and his family. They all asked to not be named, for they did not want to be conscripted into the war and feared the death of themselves and their family. Being from a shipbuilding family, and knowing that they were at high risk of ostracism, they fled before they could be exiled by the people of Athens.

EMPEROR PEDRO II: Why did they follow you? Did they know you were Socrates?

SOCRATES: They only knew that we were escaping, not that I was Socrates. They did see my many men, who all appeared to be proficient in shipbuilding and ship running, and asked them where we were going. They did not want to make a scene with me, so after inquiring as to their purpose, my men told them to follow our ship.

EMPEROR PEDRO II: When did you learn of this arrangement?

SOCRATES: I only learned of this, unfortunately, after the ship arrived in Rome, and my men were having a drunken walk along the Tiber.

EMPEROR PEDRO II: My sympathies lie with you. Now, tell me of your expedition from Gades to Rio de Janeiro. 

SOCRATES: I certainly shall do so. As instructed, I will use salami to discuss the matter. I did not eat any salami, of course – merely a large quantity of salted fish, vegetables, and fruits, as well as some cheese. That was all they had in Rome.

EMPEROR PEDRO II: I assume you had a sufficient supply of food on your journey.

SOCRATES: For the most part, we had such a supply. However, we ran aground on an island, quite unfortunately. When we did, we lost all of our food supply.

EMPEROR PEDRO II: Most unfortunate! I would have helped had I not been here. 

SOCRATES: Not to worry, Your Majesty. My crew and I were able to move off the island. However, while we were there, my men found a bizarre house with a man in it.

EMPEROR PEDRO II: A man! Who might that be?

SOCRATES: Your Majesty, may I ask you to guess? It is someone that you should know well, for only a few years have passed since he arrived there.

EMPEROR PEDRO II: Napoleon Bonaparte, Emperor of France?

SOCRATES: You could not be more correct, Your Majesty. We met the Emperor in the jail; the jailer, who had not read the dialogues, was much too frightened to deal with foreign-looking individuals. He was most surprised to see my men, and even more so to  see me. He asked me to tell him where we had come from, and why we were here. I related it to him briefly, of course, for we had to be going. After hearing the story, the Emperor waved to the jailer, who proceeded to walk outside. We followed the jailer, who at this point had become Poseidon. 

EMPEROR PEDRO II: How? How could this be? Scarcely do Greek gods turn human.

SOCRATES: Indeed. The transformation was quite gradual, I must say. If I remember correctly, one of my men was even more devout than me, and had prayed that the gods protect us on the journey from Athens to Rio de Janeiro. The other men dared not interfere, for they knew that the man, being so devout, would make prayers that were sufficient enough for the whole ship. His prayers seemed to have been answered, for the gods came to protect us during the time when we needed them.

EMPEROR PEDRO II: I suppose that makes sense, although the gods have not always come to your aid – as you might know, Socrates.

SOCRATES: You are not wrong, but in this case they came to our aid. After we boarded our ship the journey was pleasant and smooth for the most part, except for one small thunderstorm.

EMPEROR PEDRO II: Do you wish to speculate on the causes of that storm? I certainly do.

SOCRATES: I cannot speculate on such matters. To do so is antithetical to myself. However, I might theorize that Poseidon fought with his brother, and as punishment the king of the gods opted to create a frenzy of a storm.

EMPEROR PEDRO II: How bad of a storm was it, and where did it occur?

SOCRATES: I cannot be sure of where exactly the storm occurred, although I am quite sure it occurred close to this place.

EMPEROR PEDRO II: Yes, I recall that there was a large rainstorm in the city some time ago. It was quite terrible for the people; they ran all over, away from the floods, but to no avail.

SOCRATES: Please tell me that you did something. How could so many innocent people perish for no fault of their own?

EMPEROR PEDRO II: Without a doubt I acted, Socrates. Ask the people, the ministers, everyone. I sent as many people as possible to evacuate the city as soon as the herald came with the news, and even more volunteered to help those in need during the floods. Even then so many died.

SOCRATES: Alas, Your Majesty! Alas, alas, alas!

EMPEROR PEDRO II: I am afraid that there is not much more to say for me, except that the city was refurbished. That, of course, brings me to ask: what did you think of the city, Socrates? Did you find it much different compared to the last time you came? The last time we met?

SOCRATES: Without a doubt I found it distinct and interesting, Your Majesty. The wide boulevards were narrowed, the buildings more tightly packed together, the streets ever more vibrant. I could not have found a place more grand.

EMPEROR PEDRO II: It was quite an effort, I must say, but my people are proud. They are proud of the city, and they are proud of me.

SOCRATES: I have heard from the heralds that a storm shall be coming within some time. Zeus must be following me; he intends to execute the punishment, by driving me back to Greece.

EMPEROR PEDRO II: Powerful as I may be, I am unable to stop curses. But tell me, Socrates, if you will: how are you here? At what point did ancient Greece become modern Brazil?

SOCRATES: I cannot be too sure, Your Majesty. Time and life are mysteries I have yet to resolve; no amount of philosophy has resolved them to my satisfaction quite yet.

EMPEROR PEDRO II: I suppose that the best I can do is give you faux, nontoxic hemlock for you to enjoy.

SOCRATES: Thank you, Your Majesty. If you will, I must take your leave, so that I may start philosophizing.

EMPEROR PEDRO II: I grant you my leave, Socrates. It has been a pleasure to see you once again. May you be safe, and may the punishment upon you be tempered.

SOCRATES: By the grace of the gods, I wish it to be. Should they do so is another matter, I suppose.

This concludes the fifth episode of “If Socrates Had a Podcast”. If you have any questions or would like to suggest books or notable people that I should feature on this podcast, reach out by sending me an email at ishap.podcast@gmail.com. That’s i-s-h-a-p.podcast@gmail.com.

I hope that you enjoyed the story and brief intermission. If you like what you heard, stay tuned for my next episode, coming up in two weeks. Thank you very much for your time, and have a wonderful day.