2013 AEF MEETING: Finishing student films

do we train our students to be film makers, do we train our students to get jobs, is there a way to do both?

MI- wrote and directed and managed a team of 30, a challenge because she did not actually animate on it. But she knows how to work with a team.

TG- I did the whole process. Really good practice to find out what you want to do in industry. Freelancing currently.

TR- doing the whole film, writing, storyboarding, 4 months before animation. Important to realize what you really enjoy. They do a lot of exercises and a senior film. They show two distinct skills, being able to handle a variety of mediums versus being able to handle a story.

DC- Not required to make a film, they do a 30 second pencil test film. Senior, working on graduation reels, "are they training for industry?" individual shots, give them a chance to show there abilities. they do a balance between the two. MI started her film in an advanced animation class group and finished it on her own.

TS- strike a balance between the vocational school and the sand box? A lot of people take the course not to be career oriented, but to be conceptual. Let the students find their own direction on which way they want to go. Encourage and direct but let them find their own way. Its required to have a completed film to graduate.

KS- "secret to your success?" required to finish film to graduate. Most students going into industry. So they gear towards character. Find out what the students Primary and Secondary skill set would be then we try to tailor a story or film that will allow them to show off their skill set. The planning process is key to finishing a film. We look at what they are doing and skill level and try to tailor a piece that will allow them to finish, that has feasibility. "The planning process when does that begin?" We have a whole semester spring of junior year for preproduction, they come up with 2 or 3 ideas with full faculty crits, "They can choose a film that will allow them to focus in a particular area, character animation, backgrounds, ?" 3D school, we try to help them tailor towards the primary or secondary, but all through the undergraduate program we try to get them doing all aspects of 3D, lighting, texturing, modeling, rigging. After the junior year, they have the entire senior year to do the animation, 21-24 weeks of animation. They shoot for the Sigraph deadline.

TR- 15 months all told (masters) 6 months of animation. Animatic is locked first.

JR- 2 semesters. Used Ideation period to create a film he did not end up making. During the summer he identified what he did not like about the story he was working on, wrote some songs that helped him figure out what he like and did not like. A year of developing a wrong idea. Being too ambitious, too much ego, wanted it to be great at everything. Went to something not as ambitious (ha ) a musical.

What happens when a student changes their mind over summer and does not want to do the film they have been developing?

KS- After preproduction story process happens in the Junior year, if over the summer, (make the best piece they can) the rule is they have to come into the first day of senior year with a finished animatic, and if the thesis instructor approves then they go ahead and make it. They really have to love it. The biggest challenge is that students want to pass, so they do stuff that the faculty will like, instead of doing something that they like or know about.

MI- "how long did you spend on the film?" last part of spring 2011 working on the storyboard for a storyboard class. Pitched the idea at end of spring that this could be for film class. and fixed the boards, animatic, Fall, did the backgrounds character designs, animation. Last spring, post production 30 students volunteer, "specific class produced this film?" yes, free floating class, some where getting credit, 1/2 where volunteering. "exciting to work on a film, the idea is exciting, committing and staying with it is where it gets hard" Sometimes you are working on something for so long, but the magic trick is to go back to the magic, the storyboards, whatever made you happy.

TR- "times when you were thrown challenges, could not make it" stop motion is torture, it's 9 am and you know 12 hours to do a shot. Temptations to want to take a day off. Schedule would have derailed. The pressure of a crew, coming in to light and set-up. The faculty was not very hands on., it was the student collaboration, the schedules interlock, so you can't do it for yourself.

When you see students who are falling behind and getting unmotivated how do you pick them back up?

DC- They always do it. Usually. a lot of it has to do with the model of schedule , here they are doing a lot of other classes, so they cannot just work on their film. so by necessity most of our films are group projects. some small like 5 to 6. We will pull people in from the hallways, what ever so many people working on it that it causes pressure, you can't flake out because so many others are dependent on you.

TS- UFC, gives them a budget to hire people. They have collaborative class. Motivation: a number of students meet over the course of the year to work over their stuff. The scenes that go the quickest are the ones that are the clearest. Blitz style, do the scenes that are the clearest in your mind, even 1 second shots, do them first, out of order, because it can motivate you to continue. Always running into students with one small problem, The triangle of concentration (Art Babbit) the audience is looking at the eyes and the mouth, not the walk cycle. At times, tell them to cut to the chase. "Simplification Pass", in feature films, what can we get rid of to actually finish this. They have a meeting 1/2 way through to simplify. This is how the pro's do it.

KS- during the year they have deadlines (senior year) such as a modeling pass, 3D animatic, rough, finished pass. "What happens when they don't make the deadline?", we tell them they need to step it up. We want it finished by December. post is january. REally supportive culture at her school, they wouldn't think of finishing their films, they work in the labs till midnight, they work really, really hard "did the culture grow over time?" it's part of being a really small school, the community, the support system, they get it from the faculty not assigned a particular faculty, find the faculty that will help you. Our single student project. We recently getting group projects. (most of our student projects are not over 2 minutes) The 2 minute mark is about where they start falling apart, something starts to get sub standard in the animation quality. Even our AA+ do the 2. The C students, do a 1.15 film. Don't be over ambitions, don't do mediocre. Do something smaller and do it well. "Will you know this while pitching the story?" we give them a pre-production process, if you want to be an animator, then drop more of the other stuff like backgrounds,. Talk to them about this in Dec, then they think about what they want do do and what kind of story they want to do, then they pitch that in the beginning of the spring semester.

Funny stories that happened in the production?

TG- Making a film every year. show submitted by the faculty. freshmen have 1:30, sophomores have 2:30, juniors have 4:00, seniors 7:00. doing this year after year helps you to predict the types of problems you are going to have. They work with sound designers, music. Cal Arts, make this film on top of other classes. First semester is intensive classes, the class loads lighten up as they go.

MI- Working with a group of people on a film, so many different people can handle the workload. Things you have not planned yourself. Different personalities. Priorities in different ways then you.

TS- The anniversary of who framed roger rabbit. I was talking to fans, I heard that there was a graveyard sequence, but at a certain point, you have to cut it. 90 minutes long. No more. You cut.

Students have to rely on teachers to help them see it. When you as an educator see that something that students are doing is going to hurt their film, how do you get around that?

DC- Our responsibility but at the same time you have the students who won't change their mind, sometimes you have to let them do it so they learn, other times, they refuse and it turns out, it's a balance.

JR- Lesson: our puppets were a month later then scheduled. Catching up meant we had to drop shots. Faculty wide reviews, where the faculty could say you don't need that shot because the animation is explaining it fine with out it. We ran into problems with the visual effects process. The film is what it is, sometimes it seems not finished, but it is what it is. Post production was hairy.

TS- Howard Beckerman, was his teacher (still teaches) every student who when he starts out wants to animate fantasia when they start out but it;s impossible, he wonders though if we didn't tell them, maybe they would do it?,,,

Reasons why you chose to do a film and what did you get out of it?

TG- feels really good to finish a film. To show it. Huge honor to be nominated, it gives me hope in myself, because they honor me.

MI- made a film for personal reasons, not related to curriculum but it motivated me. Satisfying to see it through it to the end.

JR- I had something I wanted to prove.

Bill from Chatham University: "Do you see things you can do to improve, on the other hand the student has to make his own decisions? Did you listen to your educators?"

MI- never came to that point with the faculty.

DC- delicate balance. You want to let them have them sensibilities but on the other hand you have to tell them its Wacko. Sometimes thought it comes out better then you expect. Give them some flexibility to have their own vision. Maybe 75 percent give them freedom, 25 not.

KS- Actually, if they don't have an animatic that passes muster by the end of the Junior year, they don't pass. If they come back in August with something different it has to be approved by their senior thesis instructor.

JR- USC, two or three times during the course of our production we would show what we had to a round table of faculty members. I had complete control over the film, but the faculty could make recommendations, I could take it or leave it. Recommended by faculty that he cut a tap dance number, but for him it was critical about musicals.

KS- we council students to have an A and B plan. if they have time add in the stuff they cut out. What hurts the students the most is those who dig in their heals and don't listen to us, or come in with a new idea every week. Also, trying to put everything suggested in their film.

TR- The students at his school pitched to each other. That's how they recruited the team that worked with them on the film. It's important for students to know that faculty does not have to agree and the student also can choose not to accept.

TG- We always have story classes, sometimes a class activity where everyone pitches in to fix things or go to a teacher you really respect. Then collect the notes and decide what you are going to do.

Mac animator (online): Do you think it is better to do this as a group project or as one film maker?

TS- emphasis on modeling in 3D, but I don't want to model or rig, I want to animate. But, if I was a student today, I would want someone to model. so I can focus.

DC- I like individual, it all your voice, but I prefer working with a group, more fun to bleed together, the work is always better then if I had done it myself.

Aubrey- Personal visional can create charm and quirkiness. Not perfect, but great qualities. There is something to that. The limitations force you to finish a certain way.

Having to do all the aspects of film making exposes them to the opportunities and for the student to see areas that they may really like over others. In a group project, you can do something bigger, more refined, more specialized.

KS- we don't break them out into individual jobs, otherwise, some are working while others are not (in group project) so, we make everyone do everything so that they have stuff to work on. You may have someone who is the lead who is stronger at it but everyone has to do everything in a group project. You don't have specialist.

TG- Ok, During the class it might be this is character design week so bring in your character designs for your short to work on or in storyboard class, bring in your boards for your film to work on. For animation class, (the teacher might say) it's getting to be film time, so bring in your animation. We make our own schedules. But the instructor might say this week to get you guys really rolling you have to do a shot for your film or an animation test for your main character. "whose saying those things, your faculty?" It's my individual teachers, (they sound like they have a sense of were everyone should be on their projects they will ask how the students are doing independently on their film production. Have them work on aspects of it as part of classes.) Then, we have film workshop leaders, who oversee and guide us and are our cheerleaders. The students can connect with faculty to ask them for help on their films. Sometimes the adjuncts are helping till 2 in the morning helping. (its a culture of encouragement with instructors, workshop leaders, and students)

??- We have a 2 semester thesis project. First class, pre-production, second semester 12 week process, 4 weeks for post. For individual films that each student has to make. It's structured and its a core sequence at the Junior level. They can repeat it if necessary. It's either 2D or 3D, whatever tools that they want. They have to have an understanding of that toolset before they come in. "Do they make their own production schedules, codas for those 12 weeks?" Preproduction to animatic. 60 - 120 seconds. WE build a little box. They need to meet the coda based on the amount of time they have to do. Group projects happen at the senior level.

TS- to what extent do you influence or discuss taking courses in other then purely animation? I was just thinking when I was a student at SBA, there was a nebulous media class, I had to take photography, I couldn't see the reason but in retrospect it was very helpful. WE are attached to a film school so they take classes in script writing, lighting, mime.

DC- In our school we require that the students take acting classes, we have physics in animation class that we have developed with a professor of physics, we are looking to have their P.E. requirements waived so that they can take a dance class, exploration of movement. They take screen writing courses, theater lighting classes, sound design as an elective. Were housed in the illustration/animation program.

Comment from Audience: I don't know how many of you have seen the Don Graham notes from Disney, he thinks you need to know a lot of various things, the more you know that about live makes you a whole person. So we try to list what you might get out of a particular G.E. course, Western Civilization - you will learn about these great stories, it's important that students don't just regurgitate the same stuff.

DC- If I can touch upon that my colleges and I, are really heavy into getting our students academic capital as well as technical knowhow.. So in our senior class where we have all our seniors students together in one class, modelers, animators, storyboard artists, concept artists, they are always challenged with not just copying movies or something, we will force them to read Steinbeck or go to the Beethoven center on campus. We have projects that we hope will spark their intellectual capital as well. They will base their work on lets say 20,000 leagues under the sea and maybe model it, we try to get their juices flowing.

JR- from a students perspective i am totally grateful, 2 classes I took at UIC that was outside the program was astronomy and marketing, both I am extremely grateful for. Understanding marketing perspective I began to see other things that mattered outside of film school.

TR- This helps with idea creation, immerse themselves in lots of different sources, I really think that is a really good application of this breadth.

Question from Ruth in Audience: how much emphasis is placed on story, do they have the tools to know it's a good story or not, do they have to come up with it themselves, Do they work on the importance of story?

KS- at Ringling, we have every 3 a course concept, its our story developing course. Stories that are internal, how are you going to show that? Masterpiece syndrome, one of the things we try to give our students their own voice, but at the end of the day, they are making stories for other people, they are not fine art, story is about audience, not you.

Ruth: Do they do that process before they make films?

KS- sorta. We start with storyboard, Sophomore, a whole packet then we slowly turn it over to them. (?) We have students who are developing story and get involved in trying to animate water. How do we stage it so we can swap it out, with something easier. a balance between story and the way that story influence the production.

Aubry: Great book: The art of dramatic writing writes a chapter on the premise. That chapter defines what a premise is. What is your film about? Karen Sulivans book on ideas for the animated short.

JR: Iteration, testing to see if your idea work. Iteration is required in game design, keep revising. indoctrinating in game design, it removes the ego from things, you are going to fail, its ok, be glad about and continue working on it. I don't know if we get enough of that as animation students.

??- Evaluation? how do you evaluate as you progress? how do you go about it with grades? when you are working on a short, a single thing.

Audience member: we use rubrics. for a range of success. Simply describe a sucky project and then a stellar project and then in-between so that students understand what is expected. Give them the rubric at the beginning.

??: So how often during the semester do they get the grade?

Audience member: on senior film, everyone is different, (so it breaks the mold) every other class uses the rubric.

KS: we definite deadlines, about once a month. 2 grading periods, full faculty evaluation in December, "is it where it needs to be to continue?" They do it as a group effort.