I'm using free hosting and I would like to know if there is a way to have a safe login system without a TLS certificate.All I do with this server is:POST HTTP Request with username and hashed password, then search for those values on server, and reply with "x" for yes and "y" for no.It's my first week working with databases and servers, this is why I'm not paying for a hosting service.

If the information is transmitted as hash to the server, and the answer from the server is NEVER the same (I mean, "x" is ALWAYS a different value and "y" is ALWAYS a different value), do I still need a TLS certificate?

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If you control the client and server software completely, you can re-implement enough of TLS for security without bothering with public key infrastructure (PKI) - the certs and such - by hard-coding the trusted public key(s) into your client. This is a terrible idea, though; TLS is really, really hard to get right (witness the constant stream of bugs in libraries like OpenSSL) and contains a lot of stuff learned in decades of trying to perfect transport-level security (SSL 1 was so insecure it was never published, SSL 2 was found to be insecure pretty shortly after publishing, SSL 3 was found to be insecure a few years ago and is deprecated, TLS 1 - essentially SSL 3.1 - has in turn been deprecated by newer versions, etc.).

Trying to do authentication without TLS or something like it is not going to be secure. Technically there exists a protocol, Secure Remote Password, for authenticating securely over an untrusted network, but it doesn't support registration (you need to have some other secure way to tell the server the user's credentials) so it is probably unsuitable for this. There exist ways to be secure against a passive eavesdropper, such as HTTP Digest authentication, but an active man-in-the-middle - which is easier to get than you might think - can still compromise such schemes.

If your hosting provider genuinely won't permit HTTPS (and dear $DEITY what is wrong with them?), find a different one. For hobby projects or small-scale prototypes, there are tons of free providers. While you're at it, have a care for how you store and look up passwords; simple hashing (even with a salt) is insufficient, and beware of issues like SQL injection. Additionally, if the server and client exchange any information other than the login request and response, make sure the other endpoints have adequate security (HTTPS or similar, but also proper authorization checks, no XML attacks, deserialization attacks, etc.; web services are easier to secure than web sites, but there's still a ton that can go wrong).

That said, hashing the password before sending, as you described, is a good step. This has saved my neck before when someone in school thought they were cool, did a passive intercept, and deleted half of a forum that I was an admin on (I was 17 and the free forum host did not offer HTTPS). The attackers got stuck when they didn't have the admin password to enter the admin panel (a million kudos to SMF Forums for implementing the hashing and extra password check).

Now consider this: you send the password hashed, but an attacker can observe the hash being sent. They do not know the original password, but they can replay the request. They can just send whatever you sent, and the server will accept it.

So another step is to make this a challenge-response system. This is what a lot of protocols use, for example NFC: the card (also known as 'tag') will generate a challenge and the reader has to respond correctly before being allowed to read the tag. This can be a secure authentication system.

Next, you should encrypt and sign the traffic: it's great that you can authenticate securely, but an attacker can still modify the commands you are sending and see the data you are transmitting. Something like AES-GCM does both, or if you want to do it with more traditional methods, AES-CTR with HMAC is a common choice. You could use the solution to the challenge-response system as password, and instead of submitting the response, you encrypt the text "correctpassword" (or something like that) and send that to the server. If the server can decrypt it correctly, it knows that you had the right password.

Finally, an attacker can still do a replay attack: you have a good login, you have encrypted requests, you sign the requests... but what if an attacker just replays a random request? The server does not know that it is invalid. Therefore, you should include a sequence number on both sides (from the client to the server and vice versa).

You know what you just did? You just re-implemented a large part of TLS, basically the part after the key exchange. Now think of the history of vulnerabilities that TLS has had, which is huge, despite having experts working on it. It is fun to thinker with this sort of thing, but please do not use it for anything that matters! I'm just answering the question because it's interesting stuff, at least to me, not because I think you should actually use this in production! :)

I'm busy setting up GlobalProtect for a client, and already have LDAP authentication working. However the client requires a second factor for the authentication and went with certificates because they have an internal PKI.

What am I missing here that would cause this error, when all the literature I've been through indicates that I should be able to set the Username Field to "None"? We've even moved to a higher maintenance release on the firewall in case this was a bug. Now running PAN-OS 9.0.7.

When you create a certificate profile, you are able to select how the username field will be populated from the certificate (if for e.g. you are using the certificate as part of GlobalProtect authentication). The three options are Subject (which populates from the common name), Alternative Name (which populates from the Email or Principal Name depending on your choice) or None (which doesn't fill the username field at all).

Everything I've read indicates that you can select a username field to add security to that process, i.e. I've got a username and password but I don't have a cert, I can't use another user's certificate if I had to get hold of one or I can't use another users machine to log on with my credentials. But if you don't need or want that extra level of security, you should be able to select "None".

However, when I do that, I get commit failures. This is the issue I would like to address - why does the firewall fail to commit if there is no option selected for the username field on the certificate profile.

Seeing the same issue committing with a certificate profile if Username set to None. Tested this with 8.1.14h2 and commit was successful. Fails on 9.0.8. Support engineer tested also on 9.0.6 and saw the same commit failure.

PA Support Engineer discovered that the commit failure occurs when the setting for Client Authentication is set to "Yes (User Credentials OR Client Certificate Required)". this appears both in the portal and gateway settings I believe. Changed this to "No (User Credentials AND Client Certificate Required)" and the commit was successful. This appears to be a new option in 9.0 that was not available in 8.1.x code.

Trying to decipher the implications of setting that to User Credentials AND Client Certificate. We want to have the machine connect pre-logon, so not sure whether this setting will cause problems with the desired behavior or not.

A workaround is to set the User Name in the Certificate Profile to using the Subject Alt Name of the Certificate. When you generate the Machine Certificate for the Pre-Logon, do NOT put anything in the Subject Alt Name field. This should allow both Machine Cert users (without Cookies) and non-Machine Cert users.

I currently have my lab PA-220 where its configured for prelogon and then on demand for the VPN, and it works just fine with saving cookies for the authentication and authenticates at the windows login screen without any issues.

Move to our production PA-220 and we cannot seem to get the pre-logon to connect, and I have mirrored the same settings as the lab environment. When I opened a ticket with Palo Alto, they state that a Machine Certificate is required for Pre-Logon authentication, but I have a hard time believing this as I have it working in my lab. Anyone else have pre-logon working WITHOUT a client certificate? I can't be the only one.....

Is the only reason you don't want to use machine certificates is that you don't have an internal root CA? I have spent an extensive amount of time configuring machine-based certificate pre-login along with SSO + SAML Authentication integration and the config is quite intricate. In my experience there are so many scenarios in which tokens can be invalidated (new application installs, configuration changes, IP changes, etc.) for either the portal or gateway I just can't see this working consistently.

I would also agree that not using a machine certificate could create a pretty big security hole especially if you are creating and relying on tokens with long lifetimes. If you don't have a internal root CA you could consider using self signed certificate(s) if your deployment is not large as they could be deployed easily through a GPO.

Assume that you manage to finish the setup without a certificate. This would allow anyone to connect to to your environment (using whatever is granted for user pre-logon). I don't think is is a good idea.

Thats not true either. You have to login with the user before you logout to cache the cookie, so saying anyone is not accurate. Anyone who has connected previously with an authentication cookie, sure.

From what I've seen with deployments of GP in combination with pre-logon, mostly in combination with AD/SCCM/Azure managed endpoints, a machine certificate is the easiest method on the Portal and Gateway if you have a freshly spun-in devices (Also easier in deployment with less user complaints).

As the portal needs some form of authentication at first, unless you specify that anyone can connect, in practice you either deploy a machine certificate in the image of the device to identify it and have a certificate profile to verify the authenticity. 152ee80cbc

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