How does youth look at love? Do they go all out or keep it safe with a round of virtual sex? An experienced trio may reveal it all: Billie Leyers (25) is the third child from the well-known family Leyers and singer-song writer. Marie Van Uytvanck (21) recently kicked it off with her band 'Kids With Buns' all the way to the semi-finals of ‘Humo’s Rock Rally’. For the testosterone at this table we’ve got Nathan Bouts (22), actor in the youth series ‘wtFOCK’.

"I long for some spontaneity again. May I squeeze your butt?"

The first number: 6 out of 10 youngsters think a serious relationship is important. Do you guys dream about that?

Billie Leyers: “A lot of my girl friends are really looking for steady relationships. I’m not that type of person, I’d like to see what crosses my path. But for some kind of reason I still end up in one. Since I’ve been sexually active - soon it’ll be 10 years ago: huray! - I’ve had three long relationships. Now I’ve been together with Jasper (Maekelberg, from ‘Faces on TV’) for two and a half years. Coincidentally, it’s the man I wish to grow old with.”

Nathan Bouts: “I think a serious relationship is a nice idea, but at the moment I don’t have one.”

What kind of boxes should a potential partner tick on your list?

Nathan Bouts: “Sounds pretentious, but I want someone with a certain intellectual level, someone I can talk to. She must be sure of herself.”

Billie Leyers: “It’s the same for me. It doesn’t matter if someone is a good plumber, an actor or a musician, he should come home and talk about his day with passion. The biggest turn-off is someone who just smokes joints on a couch and doesn’t know how to handle his life.”

Marie Van Uytvanck: “I might have a really weird box to tick: if I get to know someone, I want to see her Spotify-playlist. I can be really attracted to someone with the right playlist.”

Has Spotify provided you with a relationship yet?

Marie Van Uytvanck: “Not yet. The fact that I was stuck in the closet for a long time, sure has something to do with that. I think a lot of people might have wondered for a long time if I was asexual. So, no. It just took me seven years before I was completely ready to share it with everyone.”

You made a podcast about it: the ‘Uit De PodKast’. There, you talk about how you’ve told your parents.

Marie Van Uytvanck: “Friends knew it already, but I waited a long time to come out at home. Actually, my parents just know about it recently: I’ve told them during lockdown, with a letter. Their reaction was really sweet. They mostly felt shitty for me, because I felt unhappy about it for years on end - I’ve known I liked girls since I was 14. I’ve never had a serious relationship, but I’ve dated someone for a long time. Even that was very complicated, because I was still in the closet. So we saw each other in secret at a café across the country (*laughs*). Ridiculous: two girls could sit next to one another perfectly, without people thinking they’d be on a date.”

How is your relationship with your parents? I’m wondering, because there doesn’t seem to be a conflict between generations with the current one: four out of ten would even like to live in the same area as their parents.

Marie Van Uytvanck: “Since I came out to them, our bond has strengthened. Right before my coming out, it was a bit weird. During that time we went on vacation together. I’ve never longed for my own dorm more than on that trip. But now, I like to hug my mom all the time. The big secret isn’t a road block between us anymore.”

Billie Leyers: “I live with my partner, but I get a long with my parents very well. Sometimes too much, I guess. If I didn’t call them or one of my sisters by noon, then Jasper asks me what’s wrong. Why should we even rebel to our parents? I’ve got the impression that their generation was far more rock-and-roll than ours. My dad gets annoyed at the festivals nowadays: opening bags and searching people, what’s rock-and-roll about that? Back in his days, everything was far more relaxed. They were the generation of the orgies. I wouldn’t mind to go back to that. It’s all too goody-goody now.”

RETWEET!

Out of all the serious relationships between young people, one out of five people met online. Five years ago, that number was only 15 percent.

Marie Van Uytvanck: “I’ve done it a few times, but I don’t think Tinder dating is pleasant. The idea that you meet someone and have to approve them, doesn’t feel right to me. Spontaneously meeting someone in-person with whom it clicks, seems way more fun. Even when it’s not that easy, since I fall for people of the same sex.”

Billie Leyers: “I’ve got zero experience with Tinder. My relationships always started at school.”

Like 1 out of 3 youngsters.

Billie Leyers: “I’ve met Jasper at school too: he was the mentor for my thesis. So yeah, I’ve run off with the teacher (*laughs*). I’ve seen it in my environment though, online dating. They’d be chatting for weeks or months, eventually meet up and then find out that there is no spark between them. It’s a shame, three months of your life in the thrash.”

Marie Van Uytvanck: “Of course: you’ve been idolizing them for a while. Also, in a chat conversation you can still think before you send something, so no mistakes either.”

Corona has been an obstacle in the life of the single: 73 percent of them hasn’t had new dates since March.

Nathan Bouts: “I didn’t experience the lockdown as dramatic. I just completely focussed on my music. With results, since my first single will be released soon.”

Marie Van Uytvanck: “So you didn’t do anything the whole time? Not that I’ve done illegal dates during lockdown, but afterwards I’ve had some new dates. And no, it wasn’t always with social distance or face masks. Dating like that, seems a bit weird, no? (*Speaks to Billie*) Wasn’t it hard for you guys, as a couple?”

Billie Leyers: “With a lot of couples it was the one or the other: they fell in love more than ever or it was over. It went surprisingly well with us: we’re perfectly in tune with each other. We give each other the much needed space.”

Nathan Bouts: “That’s a great relationship you have! It seems fun to have something similar during the next lockdown, even though I’m kinda attached to my own independence. I’ve had a relationship of three years. If we were together for a week, I needed a few days to myself afterwards. Also, I think it’s terrible to sleep next to someone.”

Marie Van Uytvanck: “Retweet! I’ve got the exact same. During the day, I’m already all over the place: I’ve got ADHD and talk too much. So when I get home, I’d like to go to bed, lay in my own smell.”

SQUIRREL IN BED

Only 5 percent of serious teen relationship have met each other at a café. Do you guys walk up to someone at the bar?

Billie Leyers: “Only the creepy types still do that. ‘You seem nice. Can I have your number?’ Then you leap back immediately, if you’re a woman.”

Nathan Bouts: “Really? I think a guy could still do that though. I don’t - I hate flirting - but I see a lot of friends of mine do the same. They even use me. Then they pull me along at my arm, until the girl - they like to hit on - sees me: “Look, it’s my friend, Jens from ‘wtFOCK’. My character is a somewhat chill dude without any complexes, who’s seriously confident, so that resonates with the ladies. I don’t want to use that to impress them, but my friends don’t get it: ‘Why don’t you use that attention to sleep around?’.”

That would be the 14 percent who fits the statement: if you’re young, you have to try as many sex partners as you like.

Billie Leyers: “I’m not a guy, but the time you could dance with a girl and suddenly kiss her on the mouth, is completely behind us, I guess. If you’re not careful, they could accuse you of sexual assault afterwards. I long for a time we could do that again. Not that I’m pro-sexual assault, but a little bit of spontaneity is allowed, right? Everything has a question mark now: may I kiss you? May I squeeze your butt? Life has gotten less romantic.”

Marie Van Uytvanck: “At parties, I still see - excuse me: saw - that happening, though: squeezing the butt. All my girl friends are bothered by it.”

Nathan Bouts: “(*nods*) Some of my friends can’t go out for an evening of dancing without some dude grinding against them.”

Billie Leyers: “But those are the creepy types. Only them still dare to try. Although: a while ago, I was walking over the Groenplaats with my bike in hand. Suddenly some guy asked me timidly if he could walk along. First I thought it was weird, but it was kinda cute too. He walked with me and said goodbye in a polite way. He probably noticed that my ‘I’m taken’-light was on. If I was single, I might have given him my number. That would be a nice story, right?”

Do you think, just like almost one out of three young people, that #metoo is being greatly exaggerated? When asked the guys, it’s even 38 percent.

Billie Leyers: “Difficult topic. I’m not that into hashtag MeToo, I guess.”

Marie Van Uytvanck: “You have to be careful with statements like that. I do think people abuse the #metoo to get attention. It’s a small amount of people, but like that, they ensure that serious issues get cast into the shadow and that people even use the hashtag as a joke.”

Something is happening though: 1 out of 4 girls say they’ve experienced sexual assault and intimidation.

Billie Leyers: “Are those also the girls who get squeezed in the butt? For me, sexual intimidation resonates more with skewed balances of power at work. It’s still disgusting of course, but different than someone who puts his hand on your arm at the bar. I think we’ve gone too far in that issue. We’re all human and fumble about.”

Marie Van Uytvanck: “You’re right in that. One time, there was a guy a few meters away, starting at a girl on the dance floor. Okay, that wasn’t nice, but it was the ‘Gentse Feesten’ (= a 10-day music and theatre festival in Ghent, known for its partying until the late hours) and everyone was drunk. Suddenly that girl said: ‘I’m gonna fix this.’ She went to get security and they tossed the guy out, while everyone was looking at him as if he was the biggest pervert, who assaulted her. On the other hand, I heard a lot of complaints of girls that they’ve been drugged at parties too.”

Nathan Bouts: “Not only girls experience that. I was at a party once and a girl put a bottle of water in my hand, while asking: ‘You thirsty?’. I don’t know if that water was meant for me, but I’m sure they put something in it: I felt weird and dizzy afterwards, I barely made it home with my bike. At home, I sat on the toilet for three hours, not knowing where I was.”

Of the girls who had sex, a third did experience it (once) against their wishes. 16 percent of guys state the same.

Marie Van Uytvanck: “Last year I was on a trip to Berlin with my class. In the club a woman drugged one of the boys and got him off. If that’s not assault, I don’t know it anymore... But the weird thing was: the boy acted as if nothing was wrong. He even seemed proud of it.”

Billie Leyers: “For men, the cliché still stands: every guy likes to get a blowjob. If the guy was proud for real, though, there shouldn’t be a problem.”

Did you experience sex against your will, Nathan?

Nathan Bouts: “Not really against my will, but it happens that I lose the desire halfway through. It’s my own issue: I get distracted really easily. I could be having sex and suddenly think: why did Nelson Mandela die? Or which color should I paint my wall?”

Marie Van Uytvanck: “So relatable. Do you have ADHD too?”

Nathan Bouts: “Could be: I’ve got the attention span of a squirrel. Sometimes I can get distracted by the abstract aspect of ‘sex’ itself: what in god’s name is my body actually doing? Then it suddenly gets too graphic.”

Now I’m very curious of your first time.

Nathan Bouts: “Terrible! When I was 14, I was going to, but then she changed her mind. I didn’t mind that it eventually took a few years: I was 17. What can I say about it? The expectations were high, but not a lot happened.”

Billie Leyers: “Isn’t the first time clumsy for everyone? (*to HUMO*) Don’t you have any statistics about that?”

Not about that, but I do have numbers about the age of young people when they first have sex. Guess.

Nathan Bouts: “Pretty young, I guess. 14? 15? That’s what I hear around me.”

16,7. That’s barely a difference with 2015 (16,6) or even 2010 (16,8). And everyone keeps thinking that young people do it at a younger age.

Billie Leyers: “I’ve had a false start, like Nathan: when I was 14, it almost happened. But as soon it was clear that he was going for more, I thought: ‘ho, we’re not going to do that!’ After that experience, it took me two more years before I went all the way. (*to Marie*) So, question: have you ever felt something for a guy?”

Marie Van Uytvanck: “Yes. I can feel sexually attracted to a boy, but not romantically. I don’t get butterflies in my stomach for boys.”

Five years ago 70 percent of girls thought love and sex should always go together, now only half thinks that way - just like the guys. Do girls have more meaningless one night stands too?

Marie Van Uytvanck: “Just with someone random? I don’t like that at all.”

Billie Leyers: “I think it might be something. I told before that I usually have long relationships, but in that period between two relationships my inner Samantha from ‘Sex and the city’ emerges and then I could go for a one night stand. When I’m single, I’m a different version of myself, more animal than human, and totally focussed on the physical.”

Never had a bad experience?

Billie Leyers: “Oh, I did. Once I thought, even before it ended: oops, I shouldn’t have done that. I didn’t stay the night, but I left at 6 o’clock in the morning. The regret already appeared. With a good one night stand, both parties are on the same wavelength: you both know it’s noncommittal, almost for sport.”

Don’t you get looks for that, as a woman?

Billie Leyers: “I’m not the last drunk girl on the dance floor and someone who sits on some other guys’ lap a half an hour later. If you go to your place with a one night stand in a discreet way, nobody will point fingers.”

Nathan Bouts: “I wish I could do that, cut sex from love, but I’m too self-conscious for one night stands. Before I can be completely vulnerable, I have to know the other person through and through. Once, I’ve tried it, but as soon as we were laying in bed, I didn’t felt the spark anymore and I just wanted to leave. I couldn’t even get him up. I did went down on the girl and apologized: ‘Sorry, I don’t think more than this will happen’.”

Marie Van Uytvanck: “Crazy that I heard that from a guy’s mouth, for once.”

The young people who did have sex, have done it with an average of five different people. In 2015 it still was 3,3. With guys, the number is even higher than girls: seven compared to three.

Nathan Bouts: “I’m far below that: I’ve only been with two girls in total.”

Billie Leyers: “(*shocked*) Really? I’ve got more. That’s probably my Samantha that has something to do with that.”

Marie Van Uytvanck: “I didn’t have that many sex partners either, especially with the whole closet-thing. If you have sex with a woman, then the question remains: what’s sex and what’s foreplay? Do you count going down as sex or foreplay? Even among us, dykes, we’ve got that kind of conversations. Everyone sees that differently.”

Should you, as a girl, better name a lower number every time when it comes to sexual partners?

Billie Leyers: “I guess you better not say a number higher than the average.”

Marie Van Uytvanck: “I don’t have that impression. Don’t boys experience the same, nowadays? ‘He fucks everyone’.”

Nathan Bouts: “Actually, yes. Men can be sluts too.”

TRIO WITH A LOG

From the survey we can conclude that girls go for partners of the same sex far more than boys.

Billie Leyers: “Between my almost-first time and my real first time, I’ve been with a girl for a year. She was my best friend. Our first kiss was a joke, but soon enough it turned into something serious. We were in love, although you should take that with a grain of salt: we were in love like 15-year-olds could be in love. They didn’t know that at home: I only stayed over at her place for a suspicious amount. I can still feel attracted to girls, but I couldn’t be with a girl anymore. Emotionally, it’s too much and physical it’s too less.”

Nathan Bouts: “Boys won’t admit quickly that they would like to try something with a boy. We still live in a macho culture.”

The statistics are worrying: 1 out of 6 boys think it’s a problem if there’s a gay friend within their group. A quarter doesn’t think having a transgender between their mates is okay.

Nathan Bouts: “I’ve kissed a dude before. I don’t think it’s disgusting at all. I can still look at a man and think: that’s a handsome man. Not that I have the desire to give him a blowjob, far from it, but objectively, I can still find a man beautiful. I think a lot of men think like that, but won’t dare to admit it. For me, that seems like bottled up macho frustrations. I’m not bothered by it.”

Marie Van Uytvanck: “When I was prepubescent, I had a weird phase where I didn’t notice that I might be gay, even though it was as obvious as it could be. Not that I participated in gay bashing or made homophobic comments, but I pretended that I thought it was disgusting. I was probably scared of how people would look at me if they knew. (*to Nathan*) Did you know you’re in my podcast? I’m using a scene from wtFOCK where your voice can be heard. It’s such an amazing tv series for young people who are gay, because you guys treat it as a normal thing. As a teen, I missed characters or storylines where I could recognize myself in.”

Nathan Bouts: “We’ve often received reactions from young people who are grateful for what we did. Because of us, they took that step to come out.”

For the first time, we asked young people to define themselves. 9 percent checked the ‘bisexual’ box, 4 percent call themselves ‘gay’ or ‘lesbian’. How do you guys define yourself?

Marie Van Uytvanck: “I’m homo-romantic and bisexual, but you can call me gay. Rather that than ‘lesbian’, because that sounds ugly.”

Billie Leyers: “I think all those labels are a bit tiring.”

Nathan Bouts: “Me too. If I have to, I’ll define myself as heterosexual, but at the same time I think it’s difficult to label myself. Who knows if in one year, I’ll meet a man whom I could fall in love with.”

Marie Van Uytvanck: “Nice that you can admit that, as a man.”

Something seems wrong with the tolerance of boys: two girls who walk hand-in-hand, is a problem for 7 percent of them and 28 percent still thinks it’s weird.

Marie Van Uytvanck: “I never walk hand-in-hand on the street, but I wouldn’t do that with a boy either. I simply don’t like it. From the girls who do, I hear that they keep getting sexualized: then they’ll get horny comments directed at them.”

Nathan Bouts: “It’s because of porn: lesbian porn is the most viewed category - I read that somewhere.”

Are you part of the 30 percent that has seen porn with their partner?

Nathan Bouts: “With a partner, I wouldn’t do that. You still have each other?”

Billie Leyers: “Nowadays everyone can admit that they watch porn. Watching it together has a certain thrill to it. You’re getting horny by watching the same thing, without touching each other. That’s part of the fun.”

Nathan Bouts: “Hm, maybe I should try it.”

Something else you could try: sex with multiple partners at once. 6 percent of the sexual active youth has done it.

Nathan Bouts: “I don’t know if that’s my ambition, a threesome. It would make me even more self-conscious. And I would think of the practical stuff: how do I organize that? What’s my role? Do I have enough hands to pleasure everyone?”

Billie Leyers: “(*laughs*) You’ll need a log!”

Marie Van Uytvanck: “Nowadays you see that question pass by a lot on Tinder: couples seeking a third party.”

Billie Leyers: “In that concept, I would only like to be the guest star. It’s probably terrible to be the girl in that couple. Immediately, the next day, you’ll think: ‘Will my partner think she was more pretty or better?’ I would only get more insecure.”

RACY MATERIALS

And what about virtual sex? Of the experienced youngster, a third has done it. In 2015, it was only a quarter of them.

Marie Van Uytvanck: “I wouldn’t dare. I already think that people spy on me through my camera. I would be scared to end up like those three famous people.” (= Two months ago, the nudes from three famous Belgian people were leaked and shared without consent on the internet, causing a storm in their personal lives as well as their fanbase and the Belgian people.)

Billie Leyers: “Every time the conversation comes up, I think: I’m so happy I didn’t have to go through that.”

Nathan Bouts: “Absolutely. (*makes a cross for good luck*) I’ve send a nude pic once too, but never with my face on it. Even if that gets leaked, nobody will know that it’s me.”

Marie Van Uytvanck: “Will we ever know what happened with those people? Who knows, it might’ve been a hacker.”

Who of you have seen the images?

Marie Van Uytvanck: “Someone pushed them in my face, but I’m kinda blind - my sight is 3 out of 10 - so I didn’t see a lot (*laughs*).”

Billie Leyers: “I’m teaching at an art school and I’ve heard 13-year-old girls scream to each other: ‘I’ve got Peter de Veire!’ As if it’s about Pokémon cards you could collect. I corrected her: ‘It’s Peter VAN de Veire and don’t you have something better to do?’.”

Do you still dare to do it, sexting?

Billie Leyers: “Yes. If my partner is on tour for three weeks, then it might derail to sending each other racy materials. But our bond of trust is strong. Plus: it feels comfortable to know that you have as much incriminating evidence of the other on your cell phone as he has of you.”

In ‘De Morgen’, there was an article about the sexting-scandal, with the headline: ‘The spread position between prudish and voyeurism.’ Which side is the youth leaning into?

Billie Leyers: “I wouldn’t know. On the one hand, you’ve got Cardi B who’s rapping about wet ass pussy and that sex is the most normal thing in the world, but if you click on a clip of one of those famous people, you’re suddenly a criminal. A weird position, yes.”

Marie Van Uytvanck: “Nowadays with every topic, you’ve got two groups. Is Cardi B now the ultimate feminist or is her song just vulgar? It’s the first one for me. I think it’s cool if women can sing about their pussy too, whilst men can rap ‘suck my dick’ for years and nobody bats an eye.”

Nathan Bouts: “I’m not a fan of the song, but it’s good that they talk about it. Except: if I open TikTok and see 9-year-old grind on that song, then I think: what image are they growing up with? Two females with fake breasts and a collagen butt who roll over the floor: soon they’ll think that every women needs to look like that.”

Let’s end with romance: do you see yourself ever getting married? Almost 1 out of 4 think marriage is outdated.

Nathan Bouts: “I don’t think so. Too expensive and too much effort.”

Billie Leyers: “It doesn’t have to be expensive? I see the principle of marriage starting a revival soon. I would like to get married.”

And then get two children? An average of two, like most young people?

Billie Leyers: “I used to say ‘when I grow up, I want to have 12 children’. That’s because I’m from a big family myself, as were my parents. When the Leyers-clan organizes a family day, we need our own venue.”

Marie Van Uytvanck: “I want to have kids, I just don’t want to push them out myself. The idea that a child grows inside you, I don’t like that.”

Nathan Bouts: “I want kids too. Two to start, and then we’ll see. Some time ago, I saw a kid on the tram and thought tenderly: ‘A child of my own...’ A slight surge of nesting instinct, I guess.”

Text: © Hanne Van Tendeloo