Who better to test out the results of HUMO’s brand new ‘youth survey’ than a trio of three young gods? Bouba Kalala (23) made the switch between 'Studio Brussel' and the social media-team of the 'SP.A' - sorry, 'Vooruit' (= socialist political party). Céleste Cockmartin (21), daughter of sexologist and politician Goedele Liekens, just started her third year of neuropsychology in Maastricht. Nora Dari (19) portrays the beautiful Yasmina in the wildly popular ‘wtFOCK’.

"If we don’t rise up to the streets, a lot of things will remain the same."

For the past quarter of the century, HUMO surveyed every new batch of youngsters, but never before did we had to include a pandemic in our questionnaire. It’s a first! And even though the youth isn’t the most popular target of the virus, they’ll emerge from the corona crisis with scars on them too.

Half of young people thinks life will never return to what it was before. The girls are even more pessimistic than the boys.

Nora Dari: “I wouldn’t call us pessimistic: we weren’t on the right track at all. This is one big wake-up call. I’ve never felt as alone yet together as during lockdown. On social media, we were already used to our own bubble. Then suddenly, all these bubbles began to look the same and everyone kept talking about the same thing.”

Bouba Kalala: “For one moment, the crisis showed us how good the world could be. I even started to cry at the drone images of VTM. I think we’ll bring that unity with us to the post-corona era.”

Nora Dari: “When my mom stepped on the bus with her hijab before this, she would have gotten the side-eye. Now people scowl at those without mouth-masks. Weird how fast everything can change.”

Bouba Kalala: “My grandpa experienced the war, we lived through a pandemic. Shit happens. When the Germans threw bombs on England, everyone re-emerged after the bombardments, re-opened their shops and even made jokes about it - ‘Everything at explosive prices!’. That’s what we should do now: we have to take corona seriously and follow the measures, but being scared won’t help us more forward.”

Do young people have to give up too much, because of the corona crisis? Almost 1 out of 3 think they do.

Céleste Cockmartin: “I don’t have the feeling I’m giving up on a lot. But young people really do try and avoid infecting the elderly. When I’m in Maastricht and only see my peers for weeks at a time, then I’ll be less restrained. But when visiting my parents, I’m very careful. It’s just a matter of not being selfish. What’s so difficult about wearing a mask and disinfecting your hands?”

Nora Dari: “Quite a lot of people don’t believe in masks.”

Bouba Kalala: “Really? I don’t know anyone who dismisses the rules and says: ‘I’m going to go anywhere and do what I want.’ But those that do, get a story in the news. As if every young person doesn’t give a fuck.”

You do?

Bouba Kalala: “I have to: my grandpa who’s 84, is staying with us. I did sin once, though. Going to a friend’s house for some drinks, other friends come over and suddenly you’re with ten people.”

Nora Dari: “I’ve had corona and I was scared to death that I’d infect my parents. So I locked myself up in my bedroom for two weeks.”

Céleste Cockmartin: “Seriously? I wouldn't be able to handle it mentally if I couldn't go out.”

Nora Dari: “But I was incredibly sick, so the solitary confinement didn’t bother me. I’ve binged all there was to binge on Netflix.”

Bouba Kalala: “And your sense of smell and taste?”

Nora Dari: “Still gone! I can’t taste anything. Us, Moroccans, drink mint tea every day. Now, a month later, it still tastes like water.”

Did the virus change you?

Nora Dari: “I’m pretty religious. Corona has given me even more the understanding that everything is in God’s hands.”

Faith is on the rise again: the number of young people claiming they’re atheist or non-religious declined from 50 to 41 percent.

Céleste Cockmartin: “Everyone is looking for meaning and answers. I search these answers in science.”

Bouba Kalala: “For me, science and God have the same worth. Believers can’t prove there is something, but science can’t disprove it either.”

You believe there’s something?

Bouba Kalala: “Yes, but what? I believe in the universe, the force of attraction, the power of positive thinking... I don’t want to sound too much like a hippie, but I also believe in the paranormal and UFOs. (*Céleste and Nora laugh out loud*) What? UFOs are my hobby. Even the American army admits there is something, so there must be something (*laughs*).”

Nora Dari: “I often hear it: young people believe in something, but they don’t know (yet) in what they believe.”

It’s all clear to you.

Nora Dari: “Yes. I’m lucky to be born in a muslim family, but even then, there’s a moment where you think: is this the religion that really defines me? I’ve done research and began reading books, but my heart truly connected with the Islam. It feels like true love.”

Céleste Cockmartin: “I can be jealous about that. I think it’s a shame sometimes, that I don’t have that faith. It seems to be a good solace during the hard times. For a lot of people, faith isn’t much more than a form of meditation.”

Bouba Kalala: “The grandma from a friend of mine passed away recently. I found it hard to comfort her. I don’t have that issue with my Moroccan or Turkish friends, because we know she’s with God. The idea that she isn’t gone, brings peace.”

In 2015, when we were still discussing the imminent terror attacks, 9 percent called themselves muslim. Now it’s 17 percent.

Nora Dari: “I think it’s related to the terrorists. Because of them, muslims and non-muslims started asking questions about Islam. People studied the religion and concluded that it’s actually really beautiful.”

When you were 13, you wore a hijab for a while.

Nora Dari: “As a young girl, I often visited the community center in Winterslag. It closed down by the time I went to high school. From a tiny school with only two Belgians without an immigration background, to a school with a handful of muslims. Suddenly the world seemed bigger. I needed something familiar, something I could join and where I felt included. That was the Islam. After two years, I realized that my choice to wear the hijab, was too hasty. I wore it so I wouldn’t feel alone, but when I got older, I understood: I’m not alone. With or without hijab, God’s always with me.”

Will you wear it again some day?

Nora Dari: “I hope so. If someone asks me why I don’t wear it, I don’t have an excuse. It’s something so beautiful. Yet, right now, it doesn’t feel as if it’s something I need to do.”

Do you feel, as a muslim, that you’re less of a target than a few years ago?

Nora Dari: “Yes. That’s connected with the trend of being woke, being aware of everything and refusing to think anything is bad. Due to this, a lot of youngsters are becoming less critical. Which is a shame.”

And here I thought, young people were only positive about being woke?

Nora Dari: “But what is the meaning of ‘being woke’?”

I was hoping you could tell me.

Nora Dari: “No one knows. Everyone pretends to know (*laughs*).”

Bouba Kalala: “That’s being woke, I think: not knowing everything, stop pretending like you have all the answers.”

Nora Dari: “You know what bothers me? That we live in such a cancel culture. One bad tweet and you’re cancelled for life. There’s nothing woke about that?”

Bouba Kalala: “Without social media, we wouldn’t have cancel culture: every brain fart continues to exist on the internet. Years later, someone will dig up a wrong statement and use it to take you down.”

Nora Dari: “Young people would do well, if they followed the people they don’t agree with on social media.”

Bouba Kalala: “Yes!”

Nora Dari: “If I'd follow Dries Van Langenhove (= extreme right politician / activist) tomorrow, my followers would throw a fit: ‘Do you agree with him?’ No, the exact opposite! But how can I understand how he thinks, if I don’t follow him? If I only followed people whom I agree with, I’ll get tangled up into my own truths. The world doesn’t stop with my own Insta page.”

Céleste Cockmartin: “That’s being woke: talking with your opponents. I once started a conversation with Dries Van Langenhove. I ran into him in Ghent, at the time of the ‘Schild & Vrienden’ TV report. I had to know: what’s the deal with that group? Unfortunately the conversation wasn’t very clear - it was the nightlife neighborhood. But I’ll stick with my statement: start a conversation with dissendents.”

And the youth of today doesn’t do that?

Nora Dari: “Not at all. We rather cancel each other.”

Bouba Kalala: “I already know that I’ll get racist bullshit hurled at me after this interview. I've learned not to care. Hate posts are good for my algorithm.”

You don’t reply to them?

Bouba Kalala: “I do, every time. One time, I argued for hours with someone who sent a racist tweet. I kept going: ‘Why do you say that, Arno? Do you realize this hurts?’. In the end, he even thanked me. I went to my mom, showed her the conversation and we’ve high-fived each other. I know that Arno will vote for 'Vlaams Belang' (= extreme right political party) again, but he did say ‘thank you’, while he started with that sick tweet.”

DONE PLAYING

Tom Van Grieken (= extreme right politician) and Dries Van Langenhove are second and fifth in the list of popular politicians. 'Vlaams Belang' surpasses 'NV-A' (= right-wing political party) as the most popular party. Do you get their success with the youth?

Céleste Cockmartin: “I’ve got a simple explanation for that: 'Vlaams Belang' uses young language.”

Nora Dari: “They’re on TikTok!”

Bouba Kalala: “Politicians talk on tv like they’re the smartest people in the world. But when Tom Van Grieken sits down at ‘Terzake’, it’ll give you the impression that he talks like a normal person. Like he doesn’t read the answers from a sheet of paper, even though he also prepares everything.”

Céleste Cockmartin: “It’s a shame other parties don’t do the same. Then the results of the survey would’ve been completely different. I can’t believe young people who vote for 'Vlaams Belang', really support their positions. You can spot it in the survey: they’ve got a more positive perspective regarding immigrants than a few years ago and before the activism. So they’re contradicting themselves.”

Bouba Kalala: “They’re tired of all the bullshit. Even when they don’t agree with all the positions, they simply want someone to listen and not treat them as a small children. They’re taking advantage of that.”

Do your friends vote for the party?

Bouba Kalala: “Not anymore, but I’ve seen old friends pose with Dries Van Langenhove on photos. Others might show off their SS-tattoo on social media and I’d run into them afterwards, at the Brussels Northern Station, in army uniform and with a machine gun in hand. (= The army still patrols some important train stations in Belgium, as a safety measure to terrorism attacks). A very uncomfortable reunion (*laughs*). I grew up between sick racists.”

Nora Dari: “That’s bad.”

Bouba Kalala: “They saw me as the good black guy: ‘You’re not like that’. But they kept using the n-word constantly. I'd keep my mouth shut. My sister and I were the only black children at the primary school in Wolvertem. I saw a lot of racist stuff as a child.”

Céleste Cockmartin: “Did you even realize it back then?”

Bouba Kalala: “Yes, but the urge to fit in, was too big. I kept quiet, but now, I’m no longer silent. If my friends start a story with: ‘And then I ran into a black guy...’, I’ll object: ‘Is the color of their skin really relevant to the story?’. Then they’ll apologize immediately. I’ve got a different friend group than before.”

Why did you stop being silent?

Bouba Kalala: “Because of the Black Lives Matter movement. Something was always stuck inside me. I was obsessed with the Yellow Vests - a movement that finally dared to rise up against their government. When I saw these people protest on the street, after the murder of George Floyd - not one, but two, three, four days - I was done with letting people walk all over me. I’d been looking for a long time for something I could give my life to, and now I found it. Done playing, done with injustice.

Black Lives Matter isn’t solely about black people. It’s about people with a disability, a different sexuality, the muslims, who are still treated badly in Belgium, everyone who doesn’t have a voice.”

Were you witness to the riots that happened after the Black Lives Matter-protest on the 7th of June?

Bouba Kalala: “Yes. After the protest we drove home. When I saw what happened, I got out of the car: ‘Sorry, mom, I’ll take the bus’. I didn’t touch or break anything, but I had to see it with my own eyes. I didn’t want to hear the version of the media. I talked to these young people too: ‘You do know they’ll use this against you?’. Their response was: ‘We can protest obediently, but they’ll won’t listen to us anyways. Maybe they do now.” (*stops abruptly*) Sorry, I’m starting to rant, but it was one of the craziest days of my life. When I talk about it, I still feel the adrenaline flowing in my body.”

Nora Dari: “I get emotional when I hear you talk about it. It’s deeply rooted within society to be an ass to anyone who’s different.”

That’s what young people seem to realize too: 4 out of 10 are convinced the police use more force against a minority.

Nora Dari: “I never feel safe near cops. You can’t fool me that there are just some bad apples. My little brother, who’s the sweetest 16-year-old in the world, doesn’t do anything wrong, just loves gaming all the time. But at least once a month he comes home with the message: 'I’ve been pat down again'. I get angry, but it doesn’t bother him anymore. The indifference makes it even worse.”

Have you got experience with ethnic profiling, Bouba?

Bouba Kalala: “I was stopped by cops yesterday. While one officer started to talk to me, the other pulled the door open and sat down right next to me. ‘You got any narcotics with you?’ I couldn't resist answering: ‘Yes, cigarettes and a RedBull.’ He then searched the whole car. Very intimidating.

By the way, I think it's not just about racism, but also abuse of power. But it is striking, that out of all my friends, I’m the only one who has ever gotten a cop in his car. All my friends are white.”

Céleste Cockmartin: “I would love to live in a world where something like that doesn’t happen, a world where everyone gets equal opportunities.”

Even if you had to relinquish some of your privileges?

Céleste Cockmartin: “Yes. I want to contribute. I talk to friends who claim they support the Black Lives Matter-movement, but at the same time think that too much fuss is being made. If we don’t rise up to the streets, a lot of things will remain the same. I’d rather let those who are involved, speak their truths. I’ll support them from the sidelines. Though, I’ll admit: I’m constantly making mistakes, when I talk about it. (*To Bouba and Nora*) Hey, you can point this out to me?”

Bouba Kalala: “No one should have to hold back out of fear of saying something wrong. It’s a sensitive subject, but no one will blame you if your message is well-intentioned. And I don't even want to think in terms of privileges. Please take every opportunity you get. All we ask is that we get the same ones.”

41 percent of youngsters think schools should pay more attention to the colonial past.

Céleste Cockmartin: “I’ve got a lot of German friends: they are taught the history of WWII, year after year. We should follow their lead.”

Should the statues of Leopold II be removed? 34 percent says ‘no’.

Céleste Cockmartin: “I’m certainly not against removing them, but for me it’s not necessary. You could mention (on a plaque) what that man has done.”

Bouba Kalala: “You’re right, you know. But if those statues aren't gone within a year, I'll take them down myself.”

You’ve got Congolese roots.

Bouba Kalala: “My mom is Belgian and my dad is Congolese, but they got divorced early on and I’ve ignored that part of my roots for a long time. Until now. I was shocked when that discussion happened and people suddenly recoiled: ‘We’re not going to remove these statues, are we?’. Was I naive to think that we’re all opposed to what happened back then? Please don't tell me Leopold II has done a lot of good for this country.”

Nora Dari: “Why would keep something like that, when you know it hurts so many people? You don't see a statue of Khadhafi anywhere, do you?”

When I hear you all like this, you’re certainly the generation of action.

Nora Dari: “I hope so. It would be bad if we would stay quiet, right now. If we stood still, with everything that is happening - racism, climate, corona - then we’re just cowards.”

FUCK THE CLIMATE

Almost half of young people says they’re not interested in politics.

Bouba Kalala: “(*filled with disbelief*) What? I don’t seem to have that impression, but maybe that’s because of my bubble. We talk a lot about politics at home. Everyone should do political stuff, even the baker around the corner.”

Céleste Cockmartin: “Ever since my mom went into politics, I’ve become more and more interested. But I do notice that my friends struggle to understand. Current affairs programs are really boring too. ‘De Zevende Dag’? Sorry, but I’ll fall asleep.”

Bouba Kalala: “Seriously, it’s so good: drama! Intrigue! Just like ‘Temptation Island’”

Céleste Cockmartin: “But young people quit when they hear all these difficult and unspecific words: bilateral, cordon sanitaire, inter-ministerial agreement, Vivaldi, socio-economic parameters, ... It’s too complicated and unclear. What are they truly talking about? It can be so simple, but unfortunately we did not chose ​​for simplicity in Belgium.”

6 out of 10 young people think Belgium must continue to exist. That’s the same amount as much as five years ago.

Céleste Cockmartin: “I might sound extreme, but why should everything be split? Belgium is very small. Big problems are asking for a bigger perspective in general: immigration, climate, crime, ... That’s one of the reasons why I’m liberal: I like the centre and cooperation with everyone, even internationally.”

So you would know who to vote for? One out of three doesn’t know yet.

Nora Dari: “I don’t know enough about politics to give a well-thought-out vote to anyone. If elections were tomorrow, I would need a night to study and research.”

Bouba Kalala: “I’ve never voted. Last time, I stayed in bed. Not because I haven’t thought about it, but no politician could convince me. I didn’t want to participate in a fake democracy. That’s different now.”

Connor Rousseau, your new employer, knew how to convince you?

Bouba Kalala: “Yes. I saw him in ‘De zomer van...’ on VTM. I send him a message the same day, to ask if I could work for him. I truly believe he’s someone who wants to pull the bullshit out of politics. It only takes time. (*to Céleste*) Do you vote for your mom?”

Céleste Cockmartin: “Of course, because I believe in her. She has proven that she can change things, in her own discipline and because of her 20 years of experience with the UN.”

Are you concerned about the environment and climate? In the survey 'Groen' (= the green-socialist political party) is also doing remarkably well, at least with girls.

Céleste Cockmartin: “I would love to vote for 'Groen', but I think some positions are the opposite to a green solution. I’m not pro nuclear energy, but at the moment, there aren’t any ecological alternatives for our production of energy. In an ideal world, every party should be green. Fortunately, you can see the classical parties fight for our climate as well.”

Do you guys help the climate battle?

Céleste Cockmartin: “Absolutely. I study the climate change, I separate my trash and don’t take showers longer than half an hour. I also haven’t eaten any red meat in the past year. I do eat chicken, because that’s the least polluting meat-source out there.”

Nora Dari: “For two years, I was a pescotarian, where I solely ate fish and seafood. Now I eat meat again, but I do try to limit myself to chicken.”

More than half of the youngsters worry about the climate.

Nora Dari: “We’re constantly reminded of the seriousness of the situation: you talk about it with friends, you see it on television, you’ll get one measure after another. I do worry, yes. Our ancestors said ‘fuck the climate’ and transferred the problem to us. But the only thing we can do, is try to make it less bad for our children.”

17 percent took part in at least one climate strike. Did you?

Nora Dari: “I didn’t skip school, but I’ve participated in one during a weekend. I had to. Only complaining and moaning, it would have left me a great sense of guilt.”

Céleste Cockmartin: “I’ve got tremendous respect for Anuna De Wever and Greta Thunberg. What they’ve accomplished! A speech in front of the UN: I can only dream about something like that. I don’t understand the hate they get. Maybe they did wave their little finger quite a lot, but people who still don’t get how important it is, are simply either ignorant or chose to look the other way.”

Bouba Kalala: “We don't like to be confronted with facts. If I’m at a café with a friend of mine and he orders water, then I’ll get cranky too. Because his behavior will send out the message that I’m doing something that’s not right for me. The same with eating meat or driving your car.”

Do you feel guilty about taking your car? 37 percent prefers a bike or public transport.

Bouba Kalala: “See, I try to contribute: I don’t leave the lights on, I use less water, ... But if you look at the numbers, then you’ll see that 70 percent of emissions are caused by big companies. Every human on the planet might try to live as green as they want, but as long as these companies aren’t restricted, it won’t improve. The biggest lie they ever told humanity, is that we can change a damn thing about that.”

Céleste Cockmartin: “I don’t fully agree. Every company should invest a part of its profit into environmental research, true. But the responsibility still lies with each and everyone of us.”

Bouba Kalala: “I understand Greta’s anger. She gets applause from the heads of state, but does it help? She knows she can’t save the world by reducing her shower time. It has to change at the top.”

It does give you a free pass to do nothing and take the car instead of the bike.

Bouba Kalala: “It doesn’t. By giving the good example now, I might change a mindset. The CEOs of polluting companies have children too. When they get the chance to lead, they might flip the script: ‘Grandpa, you were wrong, we’re going completely green now.’ That effect will continue to grow, but the fact that I can save the world by not tossing my cigaret on the ground? That’s bullshit.”

Where do you see yourself living later on? 40 percent still prefers the countryside.

Céleste Cockmartin: “The fact that young people chose the country side, has a lot to do with corona. The measures felt even more restrictive in the cities. I would like to live in a city - I love the hustle and bustle of London or New York - but a lot of friends of mine like a house with a garden.”

Nora Dari: “I’m from Genk, I couldn’t settle in Antwerp or Brussels. Although, during the drive to this location, I noticed how beautiful Brussels truly is.”

Bouba Kalala: “I grew up between the meadows. When I was older, I lived in the city. Now I alternate. I felt really bad for a little while and that’s when I noticed that the city was too toxic for me. My therapist advised me to go on a walk with my dog through the forest, every day. That really changed things. It’s healthier than popping some antidepressants. Humans isn’t made to live between concrete walls. We’ll have to find a happy medium.”

One last number: at least 6 out of 10 youngsters are happy with their lives. Do you feel happy?

Bouba Kalala: “Yes. It's kind of strange to say, but not so long ago, I was convinced that I would never feel happiness again. To find it, I had to go after it myself. How I look to the future? Not necessarily rose-coloured, because there really is a lot of shit to be addressed. But even if that doesn't work out, I know I'm going to make the most of it. Like people have made the best of corona in recent months. I try to hold on to that energy."

Text: © Hanne Van Tendeloo