Decades ago I licensed/purchased Adobe's Garamond (Roger Slimbach) postscript fonts of regular, semibold, bold and their italics. In addition, I licensed/purchased the corresponding 'Expert' fonts which included small caps and oldstyle figures. Now that Adobe will no longer be supporting postscript fonts I am looking to fully replace the above mentioned with OpenType fonts. While the regular, semibold, bold and their italics are readily available, no where can I find the Expert fonts. Have they been discontinued? Are they embedded in the six basic fonts? Or . . .???
And when you say the 'expert' font is available, you mean we have to select an alternative glyph for each and every character? RIGHT? We can't just select the entire section of text and assign it the expert font. Correct? Because, that is a real pain.
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When mean 'Expert' I am looking for fonts specifically cut/designed as such. When I require 'SMALL CAPS' I want those fonts specifically drawn for that purpose and not taking capitals and sizing then to a smaller font size. For 'Old Style Figures' the numerals should not all base align. The 3, 4, 5, 7 and 9 extend below the baseline. Alternate regular and alernate italic were fonts also included. See attachment (if I can successfully upload).
Hehe. I know this is showing my age, but Adobe is giving me major Late Stage Quark Express vibes at the moment. Crazy money grabbing behaviour due to massive manopoly. Aaaand.. it didn't end well for Quark.
Me too! My fall back is my decades old mainstay QuarkXpress. I have not tried the TypeKit/Adobe Cloud access to the Adobe fonts. That's where I originally looked to see if 'Expert' was part of the Garamond (Roger Slimbach) and Caslon. Didn't see them displayed on the type specimen samples. Which made me believe that Adobe has 'dumbed down' their fonts.
I have tried to contact Adobe about this via phone where encountered the black hole of customer support. Only support for the purchasing and installing of the various applications. Not one single person knew about the Adobe fonts. Frustrating.
Adobe ended support for Postscript Type 1 fonts in their applications. The old T1 versions of Adobe Garamond that were bundled in with ancient versions of Adobe Illustrator aren't going to work anymore (at least not in Adobe's applications). One solution is using the OpenType versions of Adobe Garamond available to sync at Adobe Fonts. There are six styles of Adobe Garamond Pro, all of which include extended OpenType features like native small capitals, ligatures, old style numerical figures, proportional lining figures, etc. The old T1 fonts were limited to no more than 256 glyphs per font file. OpenType does not have those limitations. So one OTF file could fill the same purpose as several separate T1 files. The only thing missing from this set is the Adobe Garamond Titling style. But that can be overcome by using the Adobe Garamond Premiere Pro family first introduced with Creative Suite 2 back in the 2000's. That 34 font package can be synced at Adobe Fonts. It has a broad range of caption, text and display styles.
(Supplier is garamond or itc. The fontname is basically what you want.) You don't need to rename the files. The 'expert' options is useless, since this fonts are provided with small caps and oldstyle figures!
Case-Sensitive Forms are an OpenType feature designed to replace some glyphs with alternates when All Caps is applied. (Official description here.) Activating Case-Sensitive Forms (a checkbox in the Capital section of the Typography window) should have no effect except when All Caps is applied, but currently Case-Sensitive Forms is replacing relevant glyphs whenever the feature is activated regardless of case.
In Lygia the Case Sensitive Forms feature affects the following characters:
- all lowercase characters are converted to uppercase characters
- all small caps characters are converted to uppercase characters
- all old style figures are converted to proportional lining figures characters
- all punctuation is converted to the case sensitive forms
As for the OpenType standards, maybe the language is murky, but the feature name is pretty clear about the behavior that should be expected. This is about making the forms sensitive to case. If the case is mixed, the appropriate forms should be used, and right now Publisher is using the the upper case forms in mixed case settings.
I guess I just disagree with this.
case is a discretionary OpenType feature and it should stay that way.
I really do not want another OpenType feature with forced outcomes.
Users should have control.
Right now I cannot use APub to test a font's small caps features because of the dumb always-on fake small caps obscures any issues (missing or broken substitutions).
So having case be disabled would just be another PITA.
AllCaps is a software developer construction - so I guess they can add to it whatever features make sense to them. I have been going through my head about the possible (bad) interactions with other OpenType features. What if the font has old style figures and nothing else, or both proportional lining and tabular lining as alternates? I guess it would/could pick the next one in the OpenType order, and I guess it should still be switched maually. How will it affect contextual alternates, or ccmp, or rlig, or whatever? Dunno. The fear of unintended consequences.
The idea that the case is turned On automatically with AllCaps is probably a good idea. And probably will help without any side effects for the average user.
But have case only be On when AllCaps is enabled - ahhh... No, thank you.
No doubt many font designers think about how their fonts will work with ID.
Unfortunately some of them only think about that (and do dumb mac-only stuff).
It is good the typical Adopey "Pro" font has a typical set of features (consistency).
Users can expect certain things to be in the Pro vs. the Std fonts.
And this is helpful when creating app features like AllCaps and expecting it to act the same with all fonts.
But all fonts are not the same, and there are many, many different configurations.
Creating a case feature is relatively easy.
But calt is programming which can get very complicated fast.
Again, hard to predict all the scenarios.
Good example is the programming fonts like Fira Code, and JetBrains Mono, which have extensive calt code, and the weekly issues posts to go with it.
I like the idea of turning On various features with AllCaps like case.
Agree with you that often this is going to be very helpful.
But the are too many different fonts and different uses out there.
Users also need to be able to select case and other features la carte.
Those .pdf sample files provided by Adobe are displayed and printed correctly under Mac OS X 10.4.7.However, when creating new documents under Mac OS X (10.4.7) using that font, or switching existing documents to that font, or copying the Adobe samples from the .pdf files to a new document, all the accented Greek capital letters are displayed and printed as non-accented letters in every program I've tried (Word 2004, Nisus Writer Express 2.7, TextEdit, PopCharX 3, the Character Palette) except InDesign CS2, which correctly displays and prints documents that use Garamond Premier Pro.Switching the font back to Times or Vusillus or Gentium or whatever brings back the diacritics.So the problem is limited to that particular font, Garamond Premier Pro (in the past I've experienced problems with Minion Pro as well, but currently that font behaves properly).As far as I can tell, the affected Unicode codepoints are:1F08 through 1F0F
1F18 through 1F1F
1F28 through 1F2F
1F38 through 1F3F
1F48 through 1F4F
1F58 through 1F5F
1F68 through 1F6F
1F88 through 1F8F
1F98 through 1F9F
1FA8 through 1FAF
1FB8 through 1FBB
1FC8 through 1FCC
1FD8 through 1FDB
1FE8 through 1FEC
1FF8 through 1FFBSince InDesign deals correctly with the font, it appears to be a problem with the way Mac OS X and its typesetting system handle that particular font. But a colleague with Word 2000 under Windows XP has told me he was experiencing similar problems when using the font.Is it a problem with the way that particular OpenType font is designed?Is it an Apple problem? An Abobe problem? An OpenType issue?It's a beautiful font design and I'd love to use it as my default font, but right now it's just too "buggy", at least when used with Mac OS X 10.4.7.Thanks in advance for your help.--
David-Artur Daix
Centre d'tudes Anciennes
Dpartement des Sciences de l'Antiquit
cole Normale Suprieure
45 rue d'Ulm, 75230 Paris Cedex 05
I have also looked at the OpenType instructions, and can see nothing that applies to these glyphs, or to classical Greek at all.The font lacks the necessary zero width glyphs in the 03xx area for making up classical capitals with diacritics. In any case, these are normally handled by substituting readymade glyphs from the 1Fxx area; and the glyphs here are, or seem to be, defective.The font behaves in Windows as Mr Daix described for his Mac system. I don't have InDesign. In Windows Uniscribe is insensitive to OpenType instructions for classical Greek, even were these to exist in the font.I may have missed something here, but I have been designing classical Greek and OpenType fonts for years, and have a reasonable idea of what to look for.Ralph Hancock
A number of applications cannot yet understand the extended charactersets in OpenType Pro fonts. InDesign can. This may well be the reason you are having the problem you describe. For example, QuarkXPress has waited 'til v7 for such recognition.Neil
If there is a compatibility problem, wouldn't it be sensible to release the font in a version with proper diacritics on the Greek capitals in the 1Fxx zone, rather than in a version that works in only a few programs? This is, after all, a font available to the general public, only a very small minority of which use either of these programs.Ralph Hancock
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