A Conversation with Na-Kel Smith

On the first day of Camp Flog Gnaw Carnival’s 10th anniversary, K-UTE sat down with Na-Kel Smith to chat about the evolution of artistic identity, public perception, art as an outlet, and more. 

Na-Kel is a jack of all trades whose creative pursuits span music, skateboarding, acting, and more. You may know him from his involvement with the iconic Odd Future collective, or perhaps from his major influence within skate culture with groups such as Illegal Civ and Supreme under his belt. Maybe you even know him from his ventures in fashion collaborations, such as those with Adidas and Brooks Brothers, or his own hardware and apparel company “Hardies.” Or - as if all that wasn’t impressive enough - from his participation in numerous skate videos and the feature film “mid90s”. 

Despite his ever-growing list of accomplishments, Nak isn’t finished anytime soon and has since carved out a space for himself as a solo musician. Beginning his musical career with guest verses on Tyler The Creator’s “Trashwang” or Earl Sweatshirt’s “DNA”, his personal sound takes an experimental approach. 

Na-Kel remains grounded, always prioritizing his friendships and the people who have supported him along the way. No matter the project, Na-Kel stays true to himself, using his art as an outlet for personal expression. His work is a reflection of his authenticity and his belief in doing what feels right, not what’s expected. 

Read the full interview below: 

Lucie: So your newest album has a very unique sound to it- and I feel like you’ve really come into that sound. It has some elements that remind me experimentally of what Death Grips does, or what JPEGmafia does. Do you have any sort of dream collaboration that you wanna do music-wise, or do you want to keep it solo? 

Nak: That's actually- For a while I just wanted to do more solo-focused stuff because I wanted to get good at what I did. Now, I feel like I'm good enough to collaborate with people, so I'm really open to all collaborations. First and foremost, I always want to collaborate with my friends and my people that I know regardless of the music or anything, because I know a lot of great artists. So I really just, you know, chase after trying to be good enough to where it makes sense for the good artists that I know that do this stuff professionally to make music with me. 

You have roots in the group Odd Future, and now you're doing this solo work. Making music in a collaborative sense is completely different from doing it as a solo artist- has that been difficult, and how has that experience changed? 

Well, I never really started in a group necessarily, because that's just the bros. All my other friends- they were more so rapping, so when I was rapping with them, it was just like a troll. It's funny. I guess I didn't realize how serious it was, you know what I mean? It was just like, I'm doing this for the bros. I mean, it's for /slash/ with the bros. And then when I started making music on my own, it's kind of the same thing, that I'm doing this for and with the bros. The element now is like this is actually for my soul. All the words that I say are very meaningful. It's stuff that I really go through on my day to day. So now it's more so my diary or an outlet.

Do you find that process healing? 

I think I like to transfer my energy. Before I transfer negative energy or anything to a person, I'd rather put it into my art, you know? Sometimes you gotta talk some stuff through. Sometimes you don't really have nobody to talk to so you gotta talk it out somehow. I feel like I like music as an outlet because by the end of it your idea, or your sorrow, or your pain, or your struggle, or the fact that you lit and turnt up- it’s always got to conclude. 

You can't just leave it unfinished.

Exactly, so you get to work through your problems.You get to sit there and be like, you know what? All these songs are sad. I need to make a song that makes me proud of myself. It's just like you just get to track your emotions. 

You've been focusing more on your music recently. Do you have any future plans to do some more work in film, and to stick with pieces related to skating culture? 

Acting and film is like a totally different beast. You have to suit up and go to auditions and do self-tapes. Sometimes, personally, I can't really deal with too much of the pressure that comes with, like, “pick me”- when we did mid90s, we got to work through that. I became a better actor within that, because I didn't know what I was doing at first. So if I don't have the time and space to talk to whoever it may be to build on the idea of the character and the film, if I can't really get a grasp of that, then it kind of makes it a little more difficult to feel inspired to do the project. It's kind of a double-edged sword, because it's like, well, that's what'll get you the best product but that's not how you get the job.

I wanted to ask you about this intersection that appears between your work in music and film – these sort of creative pursuits – and how that interacts with skating. Do you keep those separate or do you intertwine them? 

I personally like to keep it separate because I feel like skateboarders and the people that know me from skateboarding don't necessarily appreciate me making music, or maybe, like the skateboarder’s culture and identity is kind of anti, like, “what are you rapping for?” But if I was in a band, maybe they'd accept me. If I played acoustic guitar or something, they'd probably be like, “Oh!” you know, but because I'm rapping, it's cringe.

Trying to put you into that box. 

Exactly, and so I separate it. Personally, I like to separate it. But everybody's idea is like, “You know what would be dope? If you mix the music with the skating!” and it's like, the skaters are gonna look at me like I'm corny or look at it like I'm weird. So I'd rather just make my music for the people who enjoy the music that I make. 

That way you get to have separate personas, and you don't have to have everyone who expects one thing from you in a certain category transfer over to everything else you do. 

When I start dropping the footage that I've been getting, I'm not gonna dress it up. This is skateboarding. I'm gonna push it the same way all the rest of the skaters do. I feel like people should care less about what somebody does that you don't like, and just tap in when they're doing what you do like. If you see me drop a song, you’ll be like, “Oh, that's Nak’s song, Nak clip, Nak skating?” Oh, “like” that, scroll, whatever. 

You're not gonna like everything, but you don't have to hate on everything either! 

Literally. That's why I say “Mind the business that pays you.” Do what you like. You don’t like my music? Don't listen to it. You like my skating? If you like when I was acting, the time that I acted? It's not like I was Denzel Washington, like, I was in one movie. Go watch that motherfucker, It's good! 

It's interesting when everything is so online and you have people who want to voice an opinion on everything and think that everything is made for them. It puts a really interesting spin on a hobby or something that you put care into. 

Cause I fell out of love with skating for this shit. It’s like, damn, that's how y'all feel about me when I'm not skating? Like, why would I want to skate if y’all don't like me when I'm not skating? What's gonna make me wanna go to the skate park and go see all my peers that skate and be like, “What’s up bros, I missed y’all!” Y’all care about the tricks that I may do, or whatever. Y'all care if I'm a lot like y'all, but like, everybody’s different. I don't be judging people that are different from me, so I'll be looking at it baffled. I don't judge you cause you do something random. I'll be like, “Oh, for real, that's tight, what's that like? 

On day two of the festival, Nak performed on the GNAW stage featuring a surprise appearance by MIKE. Playing songs such as “FIREMARSHALL STUNTMAN” and “HARVARD GRAD,” it was a truly electric performance. We can’t wait to see what Nak has in store for us next. 

Na-kel Smith’s new song “BEEN HAD” is streaming on all major music platforms now.