We’ll pick up the video at 28:33. It’s Jones and me.
AJ: I’ve only seen a little bit of your work, but I’m just gonna tell you this: we’re not gonna be defeated, we’re gonna stop government-sponsored terror!
MR: You can talk all you want. That doesn’t make it true.
AJ: We’re gonna defeat government-sponsored terror!
MR: Facts are what make something true.
AJ: LIKE BUILDING SEVEN EXPLODES! THAT’S WHY FACTS CANNOT BE DEFEATED!
MR: Oh, really? Ha-ha. That’s funny. Where’s your evidence?
AJ: Oh, massive evidence! We have total evidence!
MR: Why did they evacuate the area three hours beforehand?
AJ: Larry Silverstein says he pulled the building. (Reminder: Alex Jones is a major 9/11 “Truth Movement” leader, and he claims to have been investigating these matters since 2001.)
MR: No. No, Larry Silverstein says they decided to pull. They (Pointing to the fire trucks parked down the block). Are they in on it?
MR: They evacuated the area, and he said they decided to pull.
Cameraman: He said “We.”
MR: Do you want the quote?
Cameraman: I know the quote.
MR: No you don’t. He said they decided to pull the building and then we watched it come down.
[Ha! I screwed up there and said “pull the building.” That’s what I get for listening to the CTs blow that line every time!]
(Crosstalk: see below)
MR: Who made the decision? “They.”
MR: He said “We watched.” I’ll bet you a six-pack of beer, my friend. (We shake. When I later tried to claim my beer money, he claimed it was only for a beer. Can’t these people ever tell the truth?)
The little guy in black, wearing sunglasses, is Tom Foti, a regular on Saturdays at Ground Zero. He’s the most reprehensible person I’ve met in years, but we’ll wait to see if the video from 9/11 appears in which I explain why that’s so. In the present video, while Alex Jones falsely accuses me of introducing strawman arguments, Tom Foti actually introduces strawman arguments, by shouting them out while I’m trying to talk to Jones and his cameraman. Here Foti claims that I said there were no cameras at the Pentagon. Never mind that he’s trying to bail Jones out by changing the subject, I’ve never said anything like that. Foti is referring to an email I sent to him and many others in August, which quotes a Pentagon employee as follows:
“Why isn't there more video? Without telling too much of what I know of Pentagon security, you would be surprised how few cameras there are outside the building. Humans actively patrolling a building's perimeter are a tad more effective than dozens of monitors which may or may not be watched at any given moment. Given the limited number of entrances to the facil-ity (all highly controlled areas), cameras are generally only needed in high traffic areas like vehicle control points (such as the one this video came from).”
Tom Foti turns that into “Mark Roberts says there are no cameras at the Pentagon.” He’s lying, which is par for his course. The saddest thing is – and this happens all the time with Foti – I had corrected him about this misconception at Ground Zero a week or two earlier. Later, Foti brings up another strawman. He says I claim that building 7 collapsed in 18 seconds. No, that’s the time of the seismic rumbling recorded by Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory when WTC 7 collapsed, which may indicate internal collapses before the external collapse becomes visible. LDEO says that is not to be taken as conclusive. The time I quote for the visible collapse of WTC 7 is at least 13.5 seconds from the start of the fall of the east mechanical penthouse. This is easily checked by reviewing my internet forum posts from before I met Foti. The CTs don’t count the east penthouse as part of building 7’s collapse, although that structure covers an area equal to four apartment buildings on my block, and was caused by collapses on the lower floors. Later in this paper we’ll see a video that shows this collapse clearly. To justify their fabricated time of 6.5 seconds, the CTs show video clips of building 7 that do not show the roof or that are edited to omit the start of the collapse.
AJ: Listen, we’re gonna defeat the New World Order, don’t worry.
MR: The New World Order, sir? Tell me more about building 7. Why did they evacuate–
AJ: –Do you believe, hold on, hold on. (changing the subject) Do you believe they found WMDs in Iraq?
MR: Answer the damn question! You brought it up!
MR: Why did they evacuate this area three hours beforehand? Why did every fireman who was here say, “The building’s about to collapse?”
AJ: Because they told the firemen– you’re not letting me talk.
MR: Why was it making noises? Why was it leaning?
AJ: See, he won’t let me talk.
MR: There you go. Now you can talk.
AJ: They told them to get out because they were gonna blow it!
MR: So the Fire Department’s in on it?
AJ: No, they were told to get out.
MR: Why don’t you tell the Fire Department. The New York City Fire Department. They’re right there (pointing).
AJ: (To the crowd, changing the subject again) Oh, I guess there wasn’t poisonous dust, either, like they said.
MR: They’re right there. Tell them they were in on it. You just said they were in on it.
AJ: No, I didn’t say, I said they were told to, they were told to pull out.
Stop the presses! That’s the first “9/11 Truth” leader I’ve seen get the “pull” part right. Congratulations, Alex!
MR: Oh, and they just obeyed because they were gonna blow up the building?
AJ: No, because they were given orders!
MR: Who? Who gave them orders?
AJ: They don’t ask questions. They don’t say, “Port Authority, why are we supposed to pull out?”
MR: Chief Daniel Nigro, who was in command here, gave the orders. Are you gonna say he’s a liar?
AJ: See, guys, this is all “strawman.” We never said the firemen were involved. He just claimed we said it. He’s a liar! That’s what liars do. They build straw men.
MR: Who gave the order? Chief Daniel Nigro. You want to see the order? (I had the quote with me)
AJ: Yes, he’s told to pull them. It doesn’t mean he’s involved. He’s given an order.
MR: Who told him? Where’s your evidence? Where’s your evidence?
AJ: We – the firemen reported that they heard and saw explosions going off in all these buildings.
MR: Name one explosion they heard going off there (pointing to building 7). You know there were demoli-tions experts here? (Inaudible)
AJ: See, folks, this is straw men. He isn’t having a real debate.
Good timing Alex. Now Tom Foti pipes in with his second strawman argument.
AJ: There’s no point talking to him. It’s all straw men. Just like you heard it: he claimed we blamed the firemen. We never said that. He just made it up.
MR: Oh, they just followed orders to pull out?
MR: They didn’t give the orders, they followed the orders? They didn’t give the orders? You’re saying the Fire Department did not give the order to pull out?
AJ: No, they were given an order. They followed the order.
MR: By whom? By whom?
AJ: Oh, it’s admitted! The Port Authority...Giuliani.
Let’s keep in mind what Jones is saying. He’s saying that Larry Silverstein, the Port Authority, and Rudy Giuliani were ultimately in charge of firefighting operations at the WTC, not the FDNY. These people (and this organization: note that Jones doesn’t say who in the Port Authority was involved) planned to demolish WTC 7 with explosives.
Therefore, when the Chiefs on the scene say that their inspection of the building led them to withdraw their men to keep them alive, they’re lying. Jones says the FDNY pulled away from building 7 because they were ordered to, not because they determined that damage and fires in the building made it unsafe.
Therefore all the eyewitness accounts from the FDNY (which we will see shortly) that say other-wise, are wrong. And the agonizing decision to cease rescue operations in the area was not the FDNY’s decision. And all this has been covered up by everyone involved. Heinous crimes, massive deception.
The conspirators, at minimum: Silverstein, the Port of New York and New Jersey Authority (which lost 40 employees on 9/11), Rudy Giuliani, and the FDNY, which lost 343 men.
MR: Who admitted it?
AJ: I’ve got the newspaper articles.
MR: No you don’t. (to crowd) See, look at this (evasion?). (To Jones) You don’t know what the hell you’re talking about! You’re lying to people at Ground Zero.
AJ: See, all he does is sit here and act confident. He blamed us for saying the firefighters were in on it.
MR: I’m asking where your facts are. Where are they? You’re saying an order was given. Who gave it? Tell me. Give me the name. Right now. With the cameras here. Who? Who did it?
AJ: See, this is how the spin works. This is a lawyer technique. Number one, he doesn’t let me talk.
MR: I’m a tour guide, I’m not a lawyer! You can’t take on a tour guide from New York City?
AJ: No, I, I said you’re using a lawyer, lawyer tactic.
MR: Yeah, facts. Give me facts. Give me evidence, give me facts. How about that?
AJ: He’s claiming I blame firefighters. He’s claiming (inaudible)
MR: Sure you do.
AJ: And none of it’s true.
MR: You’re saying they didn’t give the order to pull out. You’re saying they didn’t survey the building, and determine it was too damaged to stand, not safe to be in? You’re saying that? You’re saying the Fire Department did that.
AJ: No modern building had ever fallen–
MR: Yes or no? Are you saying that the Fire Department did not survey the building?
AJ: See I just brought a question up. He doesn’t answer it.
MR: Did you say the Fire Department did not survey the building?
AJ: See, he won’t even let me answer.
MR: Did you say the Fire Department did not survey the building?
AJ: He just repeats the same thing over and over again.
MR: Did you? Yes or no?
AJ: (Shouting) HEY FOLKS, HOW MANY OF YOU KNOW 9/11’s AN INSIDE JOB?
About 4 people, and mainly Tom Foti, shout YEAH!
AJ: That’s right, it’s an inside job, brother!
MR: (To crowd) This guy’s a well-known radio personality. He’s got lots of videos out there. He does not even know the basics. All he can do is change the subject.
AJ: I know all the basics.
MR: All he can do is change the subject.
AJ: He set the subject, he made up that we blame the firefighters.
MR:You brought up this building. You said it was blown up! Where’s your evidence?
AJ: He’s lying again. See, that’s what they do. [Lying? Allow me to refer you to this AJ quote above: “They told them to get out because they were gonna blow it!”]
MR: Where’s your evidence? What I do is ask for evidence, sir.
AJ: See, I could make up a claim that he said George Bush did it....(more strawman accusations)
Cameraman who owes me a six-pack: Do you know what a squib mark is?
MR: Do you know what air pressure is?
AJ: (Strawman, etc.)
MR: All I ask for is your evidence.
And on and on. That’s the pathetic Alex Jones, the hero of the “Truth Movement,” at Ground Zero. Accusing people of horrible crimes without a shred of evidence.
“See, guys, this is all ‘strawman.’ We never said the firemen were involved. He just claimed we said it. He’s a liar! That’s what liars do. They build straw men.” [“We?”]
“Just like you heard it: he claimed we blamed the firemen. We never said that. He just made it up.”
“He blamed us for saying the firefighters were in on it.”
“He’s claiming I blame firefighters. ...And none of it’s true.”
“He set the subject, he made up that we blame the firefighters.”
Alex Jones’ Infowars.com:
“Update: People Died in WTC 7: This Makes Silverstein and the FDNY Guilty of AT LEAST Manslaughter
No, no one died in WTC 7. Jones’ ignorance leads to a libelous insult.
These lies are still posted on Jones’ websites as of January 30, 2007.
Here’s the story from the PrisonPlanet.com article that headlines the page above, with my comments.
Larry Silverstein, the owner of the WTC complex, admitted on a September 2002 PBS documentary, ‘America Rebuilds’ that he and the NYFD decided to ‘pull’ WTC 7 on the day of the attack. False, as we’ve already seen. And it's "FDNY"
We know that the term 'pull it' means to bring the building down by means of explosives because in the same documentary (America Rebuilds) a cleanup worker (in December 2001) refers to the demolition of WTC Building 6 when he says, "...we're getting ready to pull building six."
We are directed to this brief video clip.
Yes, that worker certainly does say they’re getting ready to “pull” building six. Then we have a quote from Luis Mendes, from the NYC Department of Design and Construction:
“We had to be very careful about how we demolished building 6. We were worried about building 6 coming down and damaging the slurry walls, so we wanted that particular building to fall within a certain area.”
Interesting. They needed to be sure that building 6 came down in a “controlled” way. But wait a second: the video clip that Alex Jones presents – the clip that’s shown on all the conspiracist websites –ends abruptly at this point. Huh? Where’s the money shot? Why’d they cut it there?
“We’ve got the cables attached in four different locations going up. Now they’re pulling the building to the north. It’s not every day you try to pull down a eight story building with cables.”
Narrator Kevin Spacey: “The use of explosives to demolish World Trade Centers 4, 5 and 6 was rejected for fear workers would risk their lives entering buildings to set the charges.”
Alex Jones’ Prison Planet.com, September 11, 2006:
"Documentary film maker and radio host Alex Jones, coordinating today's 9/11 truth movement events in downtown New York City, says that the atmosphere around ground zero has dramatically changed, with the majority of firefighters and police officers now sympathetic to the claim that 9/11 was an inside job."
Mark Roberts to Alex Jones at Ground Zero, September 11, 2006: “Let’s go, Mr. Jones. You and me are going to (FDNY) Ten House, and you can tell them what you told me the other day. Are you man enough? Or are you a coward?”