Interviews & Quotes

 Quotes-   Grandmaster C.C. Liu  ( from his book:"Tai Chi Sabre:The T'ien Shan P'ai Tradition)
 
 
 
 
 1. " Wang was never actually appointed the grandmaster by a previous generational head...."-pg18,19
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COMMENT- This means that Wang Chueh-jyne couldn't pass down the "robe and bowl" of Tien Shan Pai since he never received it himself. It means that Wang was the founder of his own school and his early students are FIRST generation disciples.
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COMMENT-Loh Tze-Loong is recognized as the senior grandmaster for Tien Shan Pai. A complete list and photos of grandmaster Wang's senior students and disciples is available at www.linkungfu.com
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grandmaster Wang making swords at his house on
Taiwan
 
 
grandmaster Wang's wife ( Shi Mu ) often helped him
 
 
 
Huang Chien-liang selling swords to his disciples
A stack of swords can be seen in their cloth cases by the fan
near the window ( Joe Dunphy facing Huang )
 
 
    Karen Vaughn's disciple sword and cloth case
       Case matches ones in previous photo by window
 
 
 
 QUOTE-  "Sifu Liu was a favorite student of grandmaster Wang Chueh-jyne. He was given the most thorough training by the grandmaster of any member of his generation."-pg 3
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COMMENT-  C. C. Liu trained for nearly 20 years with grandmaster Wang as did Willy Lin. Huang Chien-liang only trained for 7 years, most of which was in tai chi. It's pretty obvious who would have learned more from grandmaster WANG.
 
   
An old photo of Wang chueh-jyne & C.C. Liu
 
 
 
 Old photo of grandmaster C.C. Liu-Chi Kung demo
 
 
 
 
 
Photos from Gene Gause & Karen Vaughn-see Inside Kung Fu Magazine back issues
Quotes from- Tai Chi Sabre: The T'ien Shan Pai Tradition, by grandmaster C.C. Liu
                    Available from Wah Shing T'ien Shan Pai Press-815 7th St Nw, Washington, D.C. 20001
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Testimony Of Master Gene Gause ( disciple Of Willy Lin )
 
Q1-    How did you get involved with Tien Shan Pai ?
A1-   "I was working in D. C. for the F.B.I. and spied the school while out shopping. You couldn't find a kung fu teacher in those days, so I went inside to check it out." Sifu Lin did several Chin na techniques on me. He then laid a brick on the floor and broke it with his wrist. As if that wasn't enough, I sparred with him and found myself getting knocked down  5 or 6 times. It was an effective sales pitch !
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Q2-   Can you tell me about the instructors and the early days of the school ?
A2-   " Willy Lin was the teacher and he had just opened the studio. There were several students with previous martial arts training who were offered instructor training , including Ron Burley. Dennis Brown and I were the two main guys."
                                                                                                          
 
       
       Gene H. Gause, Sifu Willy Lin,and Tony Lin
 
 
Q3-   I heard that the Lin's kung Fu demo team was the talk of the town back then ?
A3-   " Oh yeh, we did demos and tournaments all over the northeast. Some of the more memorable ones were Madision Square Garden ( S. Henry Cho's tournament )  where Sifu Lin did the kicking form "mandarin duck", Hunter college in NY.,Wong Ting-fong's tourney in Buffalo,Jerry Piddington's tourney in Richmond, Virginia, American University in D.C., and D.C. Chinatown.  Chinatown was fun, since we were joined by Dean Chin's Jow Ga school. It was cool to see their style. They were the only other kung fu school in the D.C. area at that time. We also did local TV, a show called "Harambe" . Lin's Kung Fu School was the "bomb" in those days !"
 
 
 
 
         Wong Ting Fong tourney in Buffalo, N.Y.
     Gene Gause, Dennis Brown,Ron Burley and their trophies
 
 
 Q4-  What about Tony Lin ?
A4-  "When the school started growing, we needed more help. Sifu Lin sponsored his brother Tony ( Lin Teng-Fong ) to the U.S."
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Q5-  What kind of training did Tony offer ?
A5-   " Tony had good skills. He taught the instructors as well as helped out with the class. He taught me the kicking form "little red boxer " and some Bagua. He also taught swallow posture sword, tiger's tail 3 section staff, bagua, xing yi, continuous fist ( dragon fist ), and others. His Chin Na was good. He taught us knife and star throwing. " Once, he nailed me right between the eyes with a circular piece of orange peel from across the opposite side of the practice floor, a distance of about 100 feet. Another time , he threw a pencil and stuck it in the panneled wall beside my head.
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   Tony Lin
 
 
 
 
Tony Lin employing a Chin na technique
 
 
 
 
Q6-   How about Huang Chien-liang ?
A6.  "He came much later. Sifu Lin asked Tony if he knew any instructors who spoke English and wanted to come to the U.S.. Sifu Lin sponsored Huang and hired him as an assistant instructor. Back then he had a bunch of other names, Richard Huang, aka Richard Ng, aka Way Hur Huang -I used to joke that the only people I heard of with that many names were on the rap sheets I handled at the F.B.I.."
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Q7-  What type of training did Huang offer ?
A7-  " Unlike Tony Lin, Huang didn't know much kung fu. He had learned tai chi on Taiwan and only knew the first few kung fu forms of the Tien Shan Pai curriculum. He said he had learned a single kung fu form from another teacher that he called "little Lo Han' , but it was basic and frankly, pretty lame. Tony Lin was way more skilled and knowledgeable than Huang."
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Q8-  How then could he teach ?
A8-  "He taught tai chi while the rest of us, Sifu Lin, Tony, Dennis, and I taught him the remainder of the curriculum."
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Q9-   What exactly did you teach him ?
A9-  "Huang was flexible but didn't know much about kicking. I taught him kung fu kick drills and some others I had learned in Tang Soo Do. This was at the Georgia Avenue school. Later on, Sifu Lin sent us to teach at the Bethesda , Maryland studio.  I didn't want to leave the Georgia Ave. location but Huang told me he didn't like black people and didn't want the black instructors to be there with him . Over there, I taught him the "double sabers vs spear " set. He said he had memorized most of it by watching Sifu Lin , but needed to see the details. He also asked to watch me practicing 'Iron Palm" training since he didn't know the striking method."
 
Huang Chien-liang was flexible from his tai chi training
( photo taken from an old ad for the Bethesda, Md. school-courtesy of Gene Gause )
 
 Q10- Tell me about C.C. Liu.
A10-  "I had moved to the southeast by the time Sifu Lin sponsored him. I have not yet met the man. I know him from magazine articles and his book. Sifu Lin says he's a good teacher and an honorable man."
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Q11-  It was recently revealed that the "64th " generation story is bogus, What do you think about that ?
A11- "That's the story grandmaster Wang told all his disciples and so they have been repeating it for years. Sifu Lin confronted grandmaster Wang about it and it was very embarrassing for both of them. We now know Wang was the founder, he never inherited the system from anyone."
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 Q12-  What about the Taoist master, Ho Ta-Soon ?
A13-  " I  have spent the last ten years researching Wudang and other Taoist martial arts sects. The only forms similar in Tien Shan Pai are tai chi, bagua, xing yi, and baji. These are all independant systems, not Tien Shan Pai. One look and you can see the so called Taoist martial arts have a completely different look than Tien Shan Pai. According to the book "Marrow Of The Nation" by Andrew D. Morris, when the Nanjing Institute was formed there were two sections of martial arts offered. One was Wudang and the other Shao Lin. The instructors kept getting into fights and the Wudang guys left. Maybe that's where Wang met Ho Ta-soon".
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Q14-  What about the story of Wang coming from a rich family and being taught by the top masters ?
A14-  "I was told that grandmaster Wang was friends with the famous master, Chen Pan- ling. Chen was friends with and an adopted brother of Chiang Kai-shek. They all went to Taiwan when the communists took over. In the book "Nei Jia Quan", Chen Pan-ling's son tells a story about his dad. He says his dad came from a rich family and that the top martial arts instructors were hired to teach him at his home. Sound familiar ?"
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Q15- That sure sounds suspicious.
A15. " Well , what we DO know is that grandmaster Wang had great martial skills. Isn't that the most important thing ?  The creation story may be bogus but the kung fu is good. "
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Q16- You aren't teaching Tien Shan Pai now. What do you care if people make up stories and false claims about being the sole grandmaster ?
A16. " People should tell the truth. I care about THAT !"
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 Q17- How do you rate the knowledge and skill of the Tien Shan Pai teachers in the U.S.?
A17- Clearly the most skilled and knowledgeable are grandmasters Willy Lin and C.C. Liu, they have practiced at least twice as long as the others. Next, I would list my " older brother", Dennis Brown and Tony Lin. Everyone else is relatively equal.
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Q18-Why was there a re-enactment of your disciple ceremony few years back ?
A18-There were some instructors claiming to be disciples of Sifu Lin, so he decided to make a public statement.For the moment, Sifu Lin only recognizes Dennis Brown and myself as disciples.That's why he presented us with signed certificates and engraved gold bracelets. The re-enactment was witnessed by Taoist and kung fu master Ho Tsuan-yuan and by master and author, Ted Mancuso (plum publications). Both men signed our certificates.( photos on the "news" page )
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Q19-I hear you also made a trip to Taiwan ?
A19- That was a couple of years ago. I had the honor and priviledge to meet "Shi Mu", grandmaster Wang's wife at her home on Taiwan. I also met Sifu Lin's mother and several of the senior masters of Tien Shan Pai. I then went down to Tainan City an spent a few days with praying mantis master, Shih Jeng Chung ( Shu Cheng Chung ). He was a student of Wang Chueh-jyne. He has since mastered 5 complete systems of praying mantis and is a leading authority. I wrote an article about him for Inside Kung Fu magazine called "The Deadly Mantis'.
 
    Wang Chueh-jyne & master Shu
 (Sifu Shu has also mastered 5 complete systems of praying mantis:  plum flower, taiji, 7 star, 8 step, and secret door)
 
Q20-  I have been researching the curriculum and noticed the different instructors keep adding forms to the system.What's your opinion on this ?
A20- It's natural that that would happen. I don't have a problem with it as long as folks document where and who they learned it from. They shouldn't try to pass them off as an original part of Tien Shan Pai or coming from grandmaster Wang. That would be an outright lie.
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 Q21- Is there a benefit from stockpiling forms ?
A21- If the addition can fill a void in the system I think it's o.k.. The danger is that some styles work the muscles in completely different ways and you just may be doing more harm than good. Also, how many forms can you actually practice ? At some point it becomes silly. There are plenty of forms in Tien Shan Pai already.It's better to master the good ones than be so-so in a bunch of them.
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 Q22- Have you heard of either "white horse descends mountain" or "fist of loyalty" in the Tien Shan Pai curriculum ?
A22-  I have heard of the "fist of loyalty", it's a standard type form taught in several systems but not Tien Shan Pai. White horse descends the mountain is available on dvd from a Taiwan based master. Sifu Willy Lin never changed or added anything to the original curriculum.
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Q23- How far have you learned in the system ?
A23- Over the years I have been able to learn most of the curriculum from various teachers. My favorite acquisition has been the "Wang Chueh Jyne" double sabers form. Not many instructors have learned the complete form. C.C. Liu's son is the only person I have seen demonstrate it in public. I keep pushing Dennis Brown to give a demo of the form and I think he may in the near future. I am still missing the juggling form "flying tiger fork". That is the type of form done by circus acrobats. I do know where to get it but haven't asked to learn it yet.
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Q24- Can you reveal some of the sources from whom you got this information ?
A24- I will not. That was part of the price for learning them. If you want to learn them, ask Dennis Brown to teach you. He knows everything I do and he is still a kung fu teacher. I don't teach kung fu anymore, I teach Kuk Sool Won.
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NOTE- Source discovered !   White horse descends mountain can be purchased on dvd along with many North Shao Lin forms , such as little red fist. Also-mantis forms and weapons and more-
 
 
 
Second Source- Huang Chien-liang hired a well known Ohio Kung Fu master to teach several forms to Joe Dunphy and other instructors. These may or may not be added to Huang's curriculum. If they appear, I will list their origins so that they are not confused with the material taught by Wang Chueh-jyne. Remember-there are NO such thing as "Tien Shan Pai " forms .
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 Quotes:  Jonathan Pett Miller ( student of Huang Chien-liang )
                    from his article "Unraveling The Mystery Of The Tien Shan Pai"
                           
 page 41>     "Unfortunately, we have no information or document today that can prove the origin of the system or a firm date for it's inception...."
 
                      "If we assume that each generation is 20 years apart, then this implies the style is over 1,000 years old.
                      Without some proof however, there is no way to truly date the style."
 
page 42>     "Therefore, all evidence indicates that anyone who today teaches or practices tien shan pai learned from
                       Wang's lineage. If there are other practitioners of tien shan pai , we have never seen them nor has anyone
                       come forward with any alternative lineage.In Taiwan, Asia and the U.S., all tien shan pai lineage 
                       converges with Wang."
                      
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COMMENT-    This supports the recent finding that Wang Chueh-jyne is the founder and the statement by C.C. Liu that Wang was NEVER appointed grandmaster of Tien Shan Pai by any generational head.
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page 41>    Referring to the Nanjing Institute-
 
                    "Only the top masters in China were accepted into the first class. And among them was an 18-year-old Wang."
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COMMENT-  This is a mis-leading an inaccurate statement.
 
                      Marrow Of The Nation, By Andrew D. Morris :
 
page 207>   "The Central Guoshuguan in Nanjing operated two types of programs.Sixty students, most sent by their provincial government, were accepted to the Instructional Section each term. Graduates acquired three years of instruction in several styles of martial arts and several academic topics...."
 
This book also names the instructors in charge ( no mention of Wang Chueh-jyne ) and shows an outline of the curriculum.( To see more listings go to  the curriculum page).
 
                     Shao Lin Long Fist , By Yang Jwing-ming
 
page 8>        Referring to the Nanjing Institute:
 
                      "The masters who were invited included were Gu Zou-Chang, Won Lai-Shen, Fu Chan-Song, Wong Shao-Chu, and Li Shan-Wu."
                       "Also influencing the Central Guo Shu Institute were Geeng Dar-Hai ( Ta Chan Division ), Don Ien-Gieh ( Yang's tai chi ch'uan ) and Shun Yu-Fon ( Lo Han Division )."
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COMMENT-  Once again zero mention of Wang Chueh-jyne. With all the older and famous masters in charge, it is highly unlikely they would pay any attention to an 18 year old kid.
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  Quotes:  Huang Chien-liang
( from Wu Gong Journal, "An Interview With Huang Chien-liang )
                   
page 3>   QUESTION- "When did you start martial arts training ?"
 
                 Huang- "In 1966 I moved to Taiwan to study Tai Ji Quan from Wang Chueh-jyne. After I had studied with him  for a while, he asked me if I would like to learn Northern style Kuoshu ( Gong Fu ). In the summer of 1972, after I graduated from college, I was invited to come to the United States to teach, so I spent the next eight months concentrating on just training to better prepare me for my trip."
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 COMMENT-  Huang was actually hired by Willy Lin as an assistant instructor and sponsored to the U.S.-not invited.To say you were invited to come and teach implies that you had some kind of extra status .
 
                    1966-1973 is a 7 year period. 7 years is a very short time to learn kung fu, especially if you are attending college and having to study . Grandmaster Wang was "old school" and taught very slowly. Huang would not been able to learn very much of the curriculum in that time frame( see quote below ).
 
                    In comparison to Huang Chien-liang's 7 years of study of tai chi, both C.C. Liu and Willy Lin studied with grandmaster Wang for over 20 years.How could Huang have learned more than those two ? ( see Karen Vaughn interview )
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QUOTE :    "Tien Shan Pai:The Art Of The"Lost Step" Carves A Path In America" , by Andrea Pawlyna
                     (This article was supposed to include Tony Lin but ended up having  just Huang and Wang. According to Tony Lin, Huang didn't tell him the article was being done. Tony was pretty upset at being left out of the article).
 
 
page 82 ( referring to grandmaster Wang )
                  " A strict taskmaster, he teaches students in the traditional Chinese way- slowly and methodically. A student may work on a single technique for several months before he is taught anything new."
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 COMMENT- This explains master Gene Gause's comment that Huang didn't know much kung fu when he arrived in the United States, having concentrated on Tai Chi. Grandmaster Wang taught SLOWLY AND METHODICALLY.
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Quote: Jonathan Pett Miller : from the book Huang Chien-liang, Builder Of Champions
 
page  87 - also used in " Inside Kung Fu Magazine " ( referring to Huang's disciple sword )
 
  "...its ...scabbard engraved with what is, in effect, his diploma."
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 COMMENT:  I have recently learned that grandmaster Wang Chueh-jyne didn't want to issue paper certificates to his sanctioned disciples. Instead, he supplied letters of recommendation to help with the immigration paperwork for Willy Lin, C.C. Liu, and Tony Lin. Huang Chien-liang did not receive any teaching certification  from grandmaster Wang. 
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Editor's Note:  I interviewed Kuk Sool Won master Gene Gause and master Karen Vaughn for several important reasons. Neither of them are presently teaching Tien Shan Pai. Master Gause grew up at and lived through the development of Lin's Kung Fu School.Similarly, master Vaughn was present at the genesis of  Huang Chien-liang's Cincinnati school. Both masters went through the stages of student, instructor, and disciple under their respective teachers. Master Vaughn's story picks up where master Gause's ends. Both people can now offer their "behind-the-scenes" information and are qualified to give their opinions with a retrospective wisdom.
 
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 Karen Vaughn-  Former owner and chief instructor of the Cincinnati school,adopted "god-grand -daughter" of grandmaster Wang Chueh-jyne and disciple of Huang Chien-liang
 
 
Karen Vaughn-pose from pearflower double swords
 
 
Karen practices with Huang Chien-liang
 
 
     Karen with first trophies won at
     black belt level
 
 
  Karen ( two trophies-front left) with Cincinnati students
   Kenneth Ware in center back row-Dunphy on right
 
 
 
 Karen Vaughn & Ken Ware share first place trophy for saber 2 person set
 
 
 
 
 Karen & group's team trophy for
    "All The River Red"  form
This form was created at the Nanjing Academy (see curriculum page)
 
 
Karen Vaughn & Huang Chien-liang
  double sabers vs spear 2 person set
 
 
Disciple Karen Vaughn & teacher Huang Chien-liang
 
 
 
Cincinnati Demo -Dec. 3, 1982 ( by rank from l to rt.)
 Grandmaster Wang, Tony Lin, Huang Chien-liang, Karen Vaughn,
 Joe Dunphy ,and the assistant instructors & students from Cincinnati
        
Grandmaster Wang & Tony Lin -Tai chi push hands
 
 Huang Chien-liang & Tony Lin- Kwon Vs Spear Set
 
Grandmaster Wang Chueh-jyne Double Sabers form
 
 
 
  Testimony of Karen Vaughn ( disciple of Huang Chiang-liang )
 
Q1- When did you begin your training with Huang Chien-liang ?
A1- I started at the Cincinnati school April 7, 1977.
 
 
      Huang Chien-liang working with Karen Vaughn
                  ( at the first Cincinnati school )
 
 
 Q2- You eventually became the chief instructor there and you were a celebrated tournament champion in both forms and fighting. There are clips on youtube and I have posted pix from some of the tournaments.
A2- Yes, it was great fun.
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Between April 1979 and April 1984, Karen Vaughn won over 100 awards and trophies in 39 tournaments !
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In 1982 and 1983, Karen was rated # 1 in open hand forms, # 1 for weapons, and # 2 in women's fighting in the state of Ohio.
In the same time period, "Karate Illustrated" magazine rated her in the top 5 competitors in the mid-west.
 
Karen is listed in the 1982/83 edition of "Who's Who" in Karate and the 1984/85 edition of "Who's Who" in American Martial Arts.  
 
 In 1983, she sponsored the "Cincinnati Challenge" kung fu tournament.
 
Karen received the "Mayor's Award"at the 1983 Buckeye State Karate Grandchampionships Tournament.
In the same year, she represented Tien Shan Pai at the1983 World KuoshuFull Contact Tournament in Taiwan.
After suffering a severe injury, she refused to give up and continued the fighting.The mayor of Tainan City awarded her the special "Banner Of Courage" in honor of her willpower and determination.
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 Q3- When did grandmaster Wang arrive in the U.S.?
A3- That had to be in 1980.
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Q4- In Huang Chien-liang's book on page 85, Jonathan Pett Miller writes, "1980 marked the first year that then- grandmaster Wang visited the United States. He stayed in Cincinnati for six months, instructing both Huang and Huang's students during this time." Can you speak about this ?
A4- Well, the old man ( Wang ) did teach some students( "radar" techniques and forms ) but mostly he taught me during that time. Huang was working as a bartender at a local Chinese restaurant while I ran the school. I never saw Wang teach Huang Chien-liang anything. To my knowledge he never did.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Q5-When did you become Huang Chien-liang's disciple and who else was there ?
A5-The ceremony was held on July 5th, 1981 at the Cincinnati school. Grandmaster Wang was present. Huang Chien-liang proclaimed himself to be the only 64th generation disciple.
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Editor's note- At a disciples and students reunion on Taiwan on February 4, 2009, the senior masters of Tien Shan Pai announced that the following members were ALL disciples of Wang Cheh-jyne (prior to Huang Chien-liang)  AND  that each took the official and FORMAL disciple ceremony.
 
1.Luo Yi Gue ( Fu Shing )
2.Luo Dzu long
3.Guo Yi ming
4.Wu Ming Jer
5.Lin Gao Yuen
6.Liu Chun Lang
7.Chen Chorng Chung
8.Tsai Chi Long
9.Lin Shi Kuang ( Willy Lin )
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Q6- Well, there's a list of at least 9 senior masters who were Wang's disciples listed on Willy Lin's website, C.C. Liu was a disciple and in his book , he has a photo of himself holding his disciple sword, and on the dvd of the Baltimore demo, Tony Lin is introduced as Wang's disciple.
A6- Huang told us that C.C. Liu was a disciple but that during the ceremony, didn't bend his knees enough and so it didn't count.
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Q7-What did Wang Chueh-jyne say ?  I mean , he's the authority, not Huang.
A7-Wang didn't understand very much English, so he didn't know what Huang was saying. He would just politely nod his head from time to time.
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 Q8- Wow !   I wonder what C.C. Liu would say about that ? Who else went through the disciple ceremony that day ?
A8-The list I gave you has all the names and I wrote them in the order in which each person started their training with Huang Chien-liang.
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Huang Chien-liang's first group of disciples:
 
 1.Timothy Blake ( moved to Fla. 1 year later )
 2.Jesse Walker
 3.Candy Lopez
 4.Karen Vaughn ( started April 7,1977 )
 5.Kenneth Ware ( a couple of months after me )
 6.Joe Dunphy ( about a year after me )
 7.Darla Herald
 8.Martin Ware ( Kenneth's brother )
 9.Woodrow Fairbanks ( a Shito ryu karate master
10. Jimmy (  ?  ) ( can't recall his last name )
11.Rich Henderson (left town soon after )
12.Rudy Williams
13. Manuel Tanningco ( an escrima master )
14.Sonny Tsoi ( left the state soon after )
All the disciples had the Chinese character "yuan" as part of their disciple name.
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Q9- Wow, that's a lot disciples. Traditional kung fu masters don't have very many disciples over their lifetime.
A9-  Things are much more commercial in the states. Someone recently pointed out that the Chinese charecter "yuan" in our disciple names actually means "dollar". They guessed that Huang Chien-liang must have needed a lot of dollars. I hear he has 30 disciples now !
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Q10-How did you become the owner of the Cincinnati school ? 
A10-In June, 1982, I bought the school from Huang for $7,000, parts cash and part paying off his credit card bills.
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 Cincinnati school Karen bought from Huang Chien-liang ( grandmaster Wang had a sale of his paintings here
as can be seen by the banner being put up )
 
Group at the painting sale (grandmaster Wang in between Huang Chien-liang and chief instructor Karen Vaughn)
The painting behind the grandmaster's head was bought by Huang and presented to him at his disciple selection event.
 
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Q11- Did Huang continue to teach there ? 
A11- No, he moved to Maryland and bought Tony Lin's school in Towson, which was on Orchard Lane.
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Q12-Did you have help running the Cincinnati school ?
A12- Once I took over, Joe Dunphy moved into the back room of the school. He was supposed to teach for me but turned out to be more of a freeloader instead. After about a year, I sent him to Maryland to live with his teacher. That's when he opened the Gaithersburg school.
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Q13-There were a couple of big demos you hosted in which grandmaster Wang actually performed ?
A13- Yes, the first one was in Cincinnati on December 3rd and the second in Baltimore on December 12th.  I was made adopted "God-grand-daughter of Wang on stage before the Cincinnati demo.There are some clips of Wang performing on youtube. Those were from the Baltimore demo.
 
 Baltimore Demo Program Cover
  ( cover design by Wang Cheh-jyne-A color copy can be seen at www.linkungfu.com )
 
Baltimore Demo Peformers-listed by rank
( grandmaster Wang Chueh-jyne,C.C. Liu,Tony Lin, Huang Chien-liang and Karen Vaughn )
 
 Several clips from this demo may be seen on youtube.
 
Q14-That must have been a lot of fun putting those events together ?
A14. Well, I got stuck with all the bills for the Cincinnati show  and lost money on that one , so I would say the Baltimore one was more fun for me.
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 Q15-Tell me about your trip to Taiwan to learn directly from Wang Cheh-jyne.
A15-I went there in late 1983 and after participating in a full contact tournament, stayed there for nearly 2 months , practicing everyday in Wang's backyard .Wang would teach me and then I would practice with some of his Chinese students.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Q16-What's sorts of things did you learn ?
A16- I continued from where I had left off at Huang's and moved through the curriculum. Sometimes it was frustrating, since Wang would show me a section of a form one day and then change it the next.
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Karen Vaughn in Wang Cheh-jyne 's backyard school
practicing a bamboo fan form
  
        Balance on one leg during the fan form 
 
 
 Karen & student of Wang Chueh-jyne practicing the
  3 powers sword 2 person set in Wang's backyard
  
Karen Vaughn & Ida Wang (Wang Chueh-jyne's daughter )
 
      Karen Vaughn & Wang Chueh-jyne at a kung fu  
           tournament in Tainan City, Taiwan 
  
Karen Vaughn,grandmaster Wang, and students of
Wang  (Karen's "good-bye" party before returning to the U.S.)
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Q17-When you came back to the U.S., you changed locations ?
A17- I had come back early to find that the people I trusted to keep my school going had instead run it into the ground. Students had been allowed to practice there without paying for their lessons. Consequently, there were major debts to deal with. I was forced to close that location and move to a more affordable one. The students who had betrayed my trust were not welcome.
  
   Karen Vaughn's school
( on Reading Rd in Cincinnati-note photos)
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 Q18-I know that grandmaster Wang made disciple swords for all of his U.S. disciples. What's the story on the second set of swords that were later presented to you and the rest of Huang Chien-liang's disciples ?
A18- I bought those $3 Taiwanese swords for $80 a piece. Wang told me they were handmade by a friend of his and gaurenteed for life. I would have had to have been blind and retarded to believe that ! He often reminded me that I was staying in Taiwan for free, so it was a way to settle my bill before leaving for the States. The swords were later sold to Huang's disciples.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Q19-The students had to pay for the disciple swords ?  I understood they were presented to them.
A19-Oh yeh, first you pay and THEN you get them presented to you.
       The ones that bought the swords and had them presented were:
         1. Jesse Walker
         2. Candy Lopez
         3. Karen Vaughn
         4. Kenneth Ware
         5. Joe Dunphy
         6. Darla Herald
         7. Woodrow Fairbanks
         8. Rudy Williams
NOTE- some of these people can be seen in the earlier photo of Huang selling the swords
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Karen with her disciple sword
 
 
Q20-Wang made another trip to the U.S.did you manage to see him then ?
A20- Yes, I drove down to Maryland to meet him at the school Huang had bought from Tony Lin.Wang and Tony were there and he and Huang were exchanging some pretty angry words. Huang had the school for a while but hadn't paid Tony anything . I thought for a minute Tony was going to open up a can of "kung fu whip-ass" on Huang.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Q21- It was soon after that when you went off on your own ?
A21- Yes, both Wang and Huang had reniged on promises they had made to me and when I confronted them, we got into a shouting match. Since I dared to raise my voice to Huang, he told the other disciples not to associate with me. I was tired of the B.S. and politics, so I just concentrated on my own students and my school.
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Q22- Yes, this is America, not the Chinese army .We can protest if we don't agree with something.It's too bad and you did so much for those guys and the art.
A22-  I don't put up up with that type of treatment.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Q23-How did you continue your training ?
A23-I started training with Tony Lin. I brought him to my school several times to conduct workshops. He opened a school in Louisville, Kentucky. A while later , Tony and  I took a group of students to Taiwan and toured the country.
 
 
 
 
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                 Tai Chi In Taichung Park
      ( Karen Vaughn in front-Tony Lin on right wearing shorts )
  
        1987 student tour-Karen Vaughn & Tony Lin
( seated on left-Tony Lin & seated on far right-master Liu Chun Lang)
    Liu Chun Lang is a senior student & disciple of Wang Chueh-jyne
______________________________________________________________________________________ 
 
Q24-Since you were trained by both Huang Chien-liang and Tony Lin, how do you compare their personal skills ?
A24- Tony is more skillful by far, It's not even close.
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Q25- Did you ever see the forms "white horse descends the mountain" of "fist of loyalty" in Tien Shan Pai ?
A25- No, there are no such forms in the system.
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Comment- Source discovered-  www.kungfuluong.com.tw  White horse descends mountain and others available on dvd .
SECOND SOURCE- Huang Chien-liang hired a well known Ohio kung fu master to teach several forms to Joe Dunphy and other instructors. We shall see if these forms show up in Huang's curriculum.
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Q26- What are you into these days ?
A26- I am a licensed acupuncturist and have a successful practice in North Carolina. I really enjoy the healing arts.
_______________________________________________________________________________________ 
 
 Sad News- " SHi-Mu", grandmaster Wang's wife, passed away recently. The funeral was attended by the senior Tien Shan Pai grandmasters ( see news page ).
________________________________________________________________________________________ 
 
 
QUOTE- From Huang Chien-liang ( from his letter response to Sean Marshall on the "Rotten Tomatoes" forum-posted 2/3/05 )
 
    "To my knowledge, I am Grandmaster Wang, Chueh-Jen's only formal disciple. Grandmaster Wang ,Chueh-Jen told me that I was his successor."
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 COMMENTS -  1. Wang Cheh-jyne had 9 disciples who were formally inducted before Huang started learning tai chi from Wang , and two more are C.C. Liu and Tony Lin. The disciples who took the formal ceremony each signed a letter declaring themselves as such. The letter was given to Willy Lin following the recent funeral of grandmaster Wang's wife and is posted on his website- www.linkungfu.com  .
 
                       2. On the dvd of the Baltimore demo in 1982, you can clearly hear the announcer say Tony Lin is also a disciple of Wang Chueh-jyne. Huang Chien-liang is standing right there beside Wang, C.C. Liu, and Tony Lin. How could Huang "not know" ?
 Correction-
                      3. Wang Cheh-jyne didn't want to give each of his formal disciples a paper certificate. Instead, he wrote a recommendation for them to aid in their immigration paperwork.  Willy Lin still has the immigration paperwork for C. C. Liu, Tony Lin, and Huang Chien-liang.
 
                      4. Huang Chien-liang didn't attend grandmaster Wang's funeral or his wife's. Why wouldn't the "successor" of grandmaster Wang Chueh-jyne know about and be invited by the family to attend the funerals ?
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 QUOTE- Huang Chien-liang ( same letter to Sean Marshall )
 
 
 "Tien Shan Pai is its own system within Chinese martial arts. It is not a synthesis or eclectic collection of other styles and forms. It is not derived from the Central Kuoshu Academy ."
 
Comment-  There are zero forms in Wang Chueh-jyne's system that cannot be traced to other styles.
                   Where then, are the "Tien Shan Pai" forms ? 
                        How come no one has ever seen them ?
                        Why are the names not written on the curriculum ?
                        Why practice these other forms if the "Tien Shan Pai" ones are better ?
                        Why has noone ever demonstrated them in public ?
                        Why do Wang Chueh-jyne's disciples and students say there are no 
                        such forms ?
                        Why call your art " Tien Shan Pai" if you never teach any Tien Shan Pai
                         material ?
                   The reason is because you can't produce what doesn't exist.
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New !!!!
 
Former disciple and instructor Kenneth Ware tells his story-  
 
Master Kenneth Ware
 
 
Q1-    Why did you leave Huang Chien-liang and his organization ?
A1-    I did not leave Huang, he left me. I was suspended from his organization for standing by my principles. They were angry about Dennis' ( Brown ) webpage and their "google" disciple group-they wanted to fight with him. I reminded them that he ( Dennis ) has a right to say what he wants and that he's been in Tien Shan Pai longer than any of them. I also said it appeared to be racist that they wanted to fight Dennis, but the same people never wanted to fight Sean ( a white instructor ).
 
Q2.-  You hinted recently that there was some shady reasons Huang left the Cincinatti area ?
A2-   I will release this info when I am ready and not until.
 
Q3-   Where does Huang get the forms he uses in his curriculum that are NOT  from Tien Shan Pai ?
A3-   I have no idea where he gets his "new forms". He knows a lot of kung fu masters so they may have taught him or his son.
 
Q4-   Why won't Huang co-operate with the other Tien Shan Pai grandmasters ?
A4-   It would hurt his revenue stream to admit he's not top man. There may be others with equal or greater knowledge. It's all about marketing and how he wants to be perceived.
 
Q5-  What the hell is wrong with Joe Dunphy and his recent threats to Dennis Brown ?
A5-   Joe cannot except Black people being over him. He grew up in Madeira, Ohio--a very priveledged 99.9% all white, exclusive area. he attended Moeller High Schooanother bastion of all White exclusivity. I went to the same high school and was the only Black person in my entire class.
       When he joined Tien Shan Pai, I was the person responsible for teaching him the warm ups and basics.He always treated his Black classmates aloof. We ( Black classmates )noticed how he disdained us, but we still treated him respectfully.
      We were the ones who sparred with him to make him a better fighter. He must believe that he learned to spar by himself--HOW SHAMELESS !  
     There are several Black disciples you never heard of who are over Joe--Jesse Walker, Candy Lopez, and myself. But now, Huang has removed these people to enable Joe's asscention to some imaginary throne. Both Huang and Joe have said that Dennis does not what the "robe and bowl " of Tien Shan Pai is, SO- how can he ever be in charge ?
In my opinion, Joe is nothing but the same meatheaded ex LSU footballer, frat-boy and drunk that he was when I first met him.
 
Q6-    Now that  you are out of Huang's organization, what are your plans and vision for the future ?
A6.-   My plans have not changed due to my suspension. Huang says I can be re-instated in one year. Don't hold your breath for that one !
         I did what was right-so I'll never regret my actions. I've had a school since 1985-so nothing has changed. I will bring in other Tien Shan Pai masters to my school.
 
Q7-   I hear Huang has gone totally commercial at this point ?
A7-   When I brought Huang in for seminars, I would split the fees 50/50. but he never appreciated that I covered his airfare, hotel, and meals from my end. Huang's son called me just before the the blow up about Dennis and said that I wasn't making enough money to suit his father. I never learned kung fu just to make a lot of money ! my goal has only been to help as many people as I can in Life. Read the testimonials on my webpage- www.cincinnatikungfuandtaichicenter.com .
 
Q8-    What do you think about the quality of Huang's teachings these days ?
A8-    Huang has mega-schools in Maryland where the majority of students have AWFUL kung fu. I have a modest school where even my weakest students are better than most of these "mega-school" students.
 
Q9-   I hear that Huang is really an arrogant guy, is that true ?
A9-   It seems Huang can never get enough money-always has his palm out for more. Yes, I want to help my teacher-but I also have to eat !   It really hurt when I sent him $300 worth of Taiwan tea recently. He called to ask me what it cost per pound. When I said that due to the current economyI had to buy a slightly lower grade, he said-" You know I only drink $200 per pound tea."
       On top of that, instead of returning the tea to me, he gave it away to his "butler'-  Jonny Petite Miller !!
 
 
..To Be continued
 
 
Willy Lin Quote ( from his website - www.linkungfu.com)
 
"The martial art system, today known as "Tien Shan Pai", did not originate centuries ago. It was founded by my teacher, Wang Jyue Jen, in the late 1940's. There are no sixty-five or sixty-six generations in our system. There are presently, only three...possibly four generations in our lineage."
 
READ more on gm Lin's website.
 
 
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