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Must A Rash Expand To Be A Lyme Rash?

August 8, 2017

Posted on a public Lyme website by a patient in Virginia...

QUOTE- "Friend's 5 yo got a bullseye rash that did not expand. Instead the rash faded the next day. The pediatrician said it could not be Lyme because the rash did not expand. 

I am strongly advising my friend to find another way to get the kid on amoxicillin. But my friend is conflicted because the ped said it's not Lyme and everything she is reading on the internet says that if it was Lyme, the rash would have expanded.

Does anyone have a link to an official source that says that Lyme rashes do not always expand and/or that it can still be lyme if the rash fades on its own the next day?

Again, I am not asking for myself. I am quite sure that Lyme rashes don't always expand. I need something definitive to convince my friend. It's hard to say "I'm right and your pediatrician is dead wrong!"

ANSWERS

Please tell your friend for me....

And I am sorry for you because friends and family are the absolute worst when it comes to LISTENING to us- sad, but true. And it is heart breaking to watch them suffer later because they didn't listen. Anyhow...

I don't know a of a parent on this planet whose child was originally misdiagnosed by a doctor (and there are tons of them out there) and now suffers with chronic Lyme disease that doesn't wish they would have done their homework and/or gotten a LLMD from the start.

A bull's-eye rash IS Lyme disease. If it lasts 2 hours or 600 hours- it is still Lyme disease. And NOW is the time to act or suffer the consequences. You can't unpaint the wall.

Ask your friend about that "expanding rash theory" research they did- - was it related to Borrelia burgdorferi, Borrelia lonestari, Borrelia garinii, Borrelia afzelii, Borrelia miyamotoi, or one of the other 300 known strains?

If they don't know it indicates they don't know as much as they think they do and may want to listen to you.

Ask your friend if the "expanding rash theory" they came up with was related to a clinical diagnosis or to the surveillance criteria that even the CDC says is NOT to be used for clinical diagnoses?

It is for the surveillance purposes only!!!

Ask your friend how many children actually get a Lyme related rash (less than 10%) and how many of those are "typical bullseye" or atypical forms? 

More atypical than typical by far.

Ask your friend if watching their child suffer, possibly miss years of school, and tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars for future medical bills has been set aside or planned for to deal with this if they are wrong? 

And they are wrong.

Ask your friend what the TWO top papers/guidelines on Lyme disease recommend for those with a bulls-eye rash of any size, any color, any duration, or any shape?

Answer- BOTH say to treat immediately with antibiotics. Even chiropractors who don't like to recommend drugs and other naturalists with any sense at all say to treat Lyme disease with antibiotics ASAP.

Ask your friend if they've read the www.TreatTheBite.com website that has a one page document with the treatment recommendations right there on the front page that can be printed out and taken to any doctors office to get their child treatment?

Ask your friend if that is the engine running on their car that I hear because they are on the way to a doctor to get that dear child some medications?

POINT- Studies that talk about rashes are based on patients who actually have them, and they must have a rash for more than one day.  Otherwise a doctor wouldn't have the opportunity to see the rash and/or be able to include them in a study about rashes, would they?

See question #5 & #6 #12 and #21
https://sites.google.com/site/marylandlyme/patient-stories/dr-jones--lyme-disease-mommy?pli=1 

From the dreaded Raymond Dattwyler- even he admits to who made up the insane stuff we've been exposed to for so long.  Here are his quotes (answers) from a legal action- deposition. 

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Q Do you know Dr. Wormzer?  

A Very well. We worked together on a number of projects.  

Q Is Dr. Wormzer an expert in the field of Lyme disease, it's treatment and management?  

A Yes.  The standard of definition of erythema migrans is it must be at least five centimeters in diameter. They're also in the CDC surveillance case definition which I helped to write, so.

Q So that it doesn't -- and you are a consultant to the CDC, so it doesn't meet the criteria for erythema migrans rash if it's under five centimeters?  

A Yes.  

Q Or it has to be equal to five centimeters?  

A Equal or greater than."

End quotes.

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2 points above.  He said "surveillance" criteria. And that he is the one pulling the CDC strings by feeding them the wrong information that is making our lives miserable.

AND...

Page 2- right hand column- the definition of chronic Lyme disease. Read this section found ATTACHED to the bottom of the page at this link.

https://sites.google.com/site/marylandlyme/chronic-lyme-disease/definition-of-chronic-lyme-disease

It starts the paragraph saying- "Another problem is the variable incidence ...."  The last sentence in that paragraph says it all.

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Have your friends look at pages 3 and 4 on that same document. Just have them skim down the list on this study of what symptoms their child can develop if they are wrong.  Really want to take chances with their child's health?

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Out of over 1,100 children with Lyme disease, see how many didn't have a "typical rash".
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21709599

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Even some of the worst people in the business say... (and note the word "classically" is used)...

"The rash is classically 5 to 68 cm of annular homogenous erythema (59%), central erythema (30%), central clearing (9%), or central purpura (2%). 

Serologic testing is not indicated for patients with erythema migrans, because initially, the result is usually negative. 

Successful treatment of a patient with erythema migrans can be accomplished with 20 days of oral doxycycline, amoxicillin, or cefuroxime axetil."

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Even the worst in the business say rashes can differ depending on location, with their conclusion being.. "Cases of EM-like skin lesion in patients from Missouri and New York have distinct clinical presentations."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16142659

AND...

Here, again with the worst of the worst in the business- it indicates approximately 1/3 of the patients with a rash did NOT have a rash that expanded.  

QUOTE- "Eleven (2.8%) of 393 study patients had been initially treated with cephalexin prior to our evaluation; 9 (82%) were originally diagnosed with cellulitis. Cephalexin was administered for 8.6 days (range, 2-21 days) prior to presentation. All 11 patients had clinical evidence of disease progression, including 8 whose rash enlarged, 2 who developed seventh-nerve palsy (1 with new EM lesions), and 1 who developed new EM lesions. "

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10862221

AND...

QUOTE- "EM develops days to 1 month after a tick bite (median 7-10 days), and lesion diameter increases with duration."

Common sense here. If the rash only lasted one day they certainly didn't have the time to determine or show anyone that it expanded, did they?

Rashes don't blow up or spread at the speed of light. It can take several days, weeks or even longer to show it is expanding IF it expands at all.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7726187

Thank you for caring and trying to help your friends. Hope all goes well!















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