Translator's Note: This is an unauthorized translation of an article originally published in Shokun! magazine in February of 2001. The original page numbers have been retained for use in citations.




FOR THE RECORD - Complete Survey of the Three Schools: The Illusion School, the Middle-of-the-Road School, and the Great Massacre School

Japan's intellectuals across the ideological spectrum will answer many questions concerning the "truth about Nanking"!

        SHOICHI WATANABE - Professor at Sophia University

        AKIRA SUZUKI - Non-fiction writer

        KENICHI ARA - Journalist

        YOSHINORI KOBAYASHI - Manga artist

        NOBUO FUJI - Researcher on the Tokyo War Crimes Trials

        KATSUHIKO TAKAIKE - Lawyer

        MASAAKI TANAKA - President of the Society to Protect the Koa Kannon

        MITSURU OI - Researcher on military history

        TOSHIO MATSUMURA - Researcher on the Nanking Incident

        NOBUKATSU FUJIOKA - Professor at Tokyo University

        TAKESHI HARA - Former head researcher at the War History Department of the National Institute for Defense Studies

        AKIRA NAKAMURA - Professor at Dokkyo University

        MASAKI UNEMOTO - Researcher on military history

        HISAHIKO OKAZAKI - Advisor to Hakuhodo, Inc. and head of the Okazaki Institute

        YOSHIKO SAKURAI - Journalist

        TOSHIO TANABE - Researcher on Showa Period history

        AKIRA FUJIWARA - Professor emeritus at Hitotsubashi University

        KEIICHI EGUCHI - Professor at Aichi University

        HISASHI INOUE - Professor at Surugadai University

        MITSUYOSHI HIMETA - Professor at Chuo University

        TOKUSHI KASAHARA - Professor at Tsuru University

        RYUJI TAKASAKI - Critic

        YUTAKA YOSHIDA - Professor at Hitotsubashi University

The editorial staff who put together this issue gave a questionnaire with the following headings to researchers with a special interest in the Nanking problem.


TOPIC 1=What do you see as a reasonable estimate for the number of Chinese people who were massacred (killed illegally) by the Japanese Army during the Nanking Incident?

(1.)more than 300,000

(2.)about 300,000

(3.)between 300,000 and 200,000

(4.)about 200,000

(5.)more than 100,000

(6.)about 100,000

(7.)between 90,000 and 70,000

(8.)about 50,000

(9.)between 30,000 and 20,000

(10.)about 10,000

(11.)more than 1,000

(12.)very close to zero

(13.)Other


TOPIC 2=About the definition of "massacre victim"...

(1.)Because the Japanese Army invaded China all the Chinese people who died in Nanking are massacre victims.

(2.)Although it may have been a war of aggression, we shouldn't include Chinese soldiers who were killed in action in normal combat situations in the number of massacre victims.

(3.)Among the Chinese soldiers who died in Nanking, I don't include among the massacre victims the many individuals who, though they had cast off their uniforms and ran into the Nanking Safety Zone, were found and disposed of by the Japanese Army.

(4.)Other


TOPIC 3=In terms of time, from when to when do you believe that the so-called "Nanking Incident" took place?

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(1.)From the middle of November 1937 when the Japanese Army won the Battle of Shanghai and began to pursue the retreating Chinese troops to Nanking up to the end of January 1938 when mopping-up operations in Nanking were almost finished. (an event lasting over two months)

(2.)From about December 13 1937 when Nanking fell up to the end of January 1938 when mopping-up operations in Nanking were wrapped up. (an event lasting about six weeks)

(3.)Roughly from the fall of Nanking on December 13 1937 up to December 17 when General Iwane Matsui's triumphal entrance into the city took place. (an event lasting several days)

(4.)Other


TOPIC 4=What do you consider to be the geographical scope of the Nanking Incident?

(1.)In addition to the city of Nanking, I also include the area around Suzhou and Wuxi where the Japanese Army secured its victory in Shanghai and began to pursue the retreating Chinese troops to Nanking.

(2.)In addition to the city of Nanking, I also include the outskirts of Nanking including places like Purple Mountain where there was fierce fighting immediately before the Japanese Army captured Nanking.

(3.)I limit it to the city of Nanking.

(4.)I limit it to the Nanking Safety Zone into which the refugees had stampeded.

(5.)Other


TOPIC 5=What do you consider to be the "massacre" that took place within the Nanking Incident? Please define this term.


TOPIC 6=The Chinese troops who sought refuge in the Nanking Safety Zone and were hiding there had cast off their uniforms and switched to plainclothes (civilian clothes). Do you consider these men to be plainclothes troops, regular soldiers of the Chinese Army, or civilians?

(1.)They were plainclothes troops.

(2.)They were regular soldiers of the Chinese Army.

(3.)They were civilians.

(4.)Other


TOPIC 7=A question for the people who answered "(1.)They were plainclothes troops." in the previous topic...

Under the definition used in the international laws of war (Source=Junpei Shinobu, 上海戦と国際法[The Shanghai Incident and International Law], published by Maruzen in 1932, p.113) plainclothes troops are said to "infiltrate regions heavily populated by our fellow countrymen in clothes that make them hard to differentiate from ordinary civilians, and many of them hide in private homes and snipe unexpectedly at opponents with their pistols". Do you think that the Chinese soldiers in Nanking after its fall match this description?


TOPIC 8=If there is smoking gun historical data that clearly states that the executions carried out by the Japanese Army were violations of international law then please present them.

Furthermore, please use only primary source materials such as records made at the time and place of the incident by those involved in it. However, if you use secondary sources created based off primary sources, then please provide sufficient corroboration.


TOPIC 9=What do you think about the responsibility of Japan's General Iwane Matsui for the Nanking Incident?


TOPIC 10=What do you think about the responsibility of China's General Tang Shengzhi for the Nanking Incident?


TOPIC 11=From what point in time you think that people in Japan started to refer to the events in Nanking as the "Nanking Massacre"?

(1.)from immediately after the Battle of Nanking in 1937.

(2.)since the Tokyo War Crimes Trials.

(3.)since the early 1970's when Asahi Shimbun published

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"Travels in China", a series of columns on the "Nanking Massacre" written by Katsuichi Honda.

(4.)since 1982 when the country was rocked by news reports that the word "invasion" in school textbooks referring to Japan's attack on China had been altered to the word "advance".

(5.)Other


TOPIC 12=Do you think that the 100-Man Killing Contest of Lieutenants Mukai and Noda, an iconic event of the Nanking Incident, actually happened?


TOPIC 13 =What do you think about the book "The Rape of Nanking" by Iris Chang?


TOPIC 14 =What do you think about "The Good Man of Nanking", which is the diary of John Rabe, a German who was the leader of the International Committee for the Nanking Safety Zone at the time of the Nanking Incident?


TOPIC 15=How should Japanese history textbooks describe the Nanking Incident?


TOPIC 16=Do you think that the Nanking Incident was a crime comparable with the Holocaust or a normal act of war, or was it a major transgression or a slight overreaction that took place over the course of a normal military action?


TOPIC 17=Finally, have your views on the so-called "Nanking Incident" concerning the subjects you have answered for us on this survey ever changed in the past?

Also, if your views have changed, we would be grateful if you would clarify in which areas (for instance, your views on the total death toll, etc...). Please also enlighten us on the reason for your change (a book, the discovery of a new fact, etc...). In addition, if there are important works that should be consulted in contemplating the Nanking Incident, please indicate which ones (up to five books).

Hereinafter, we will publish in no special order the answers we received from those surveyed.


        SHOICHI WATANABE - Professor at Sophia University

TOPIC 1 - (13.) About 40 to 50 civilians.

TOPIC 2 - (4.) I limit it to ordinary civilians.

TOPIC 3 - (1.)

TOPIC 4 - (3.)

TOPIC 5 - I think that the massacre refers to civilians who were mistaken for guerrillas (plainclothes troops) as well as the ordinary civilians who were harmed in other ways.

TOPIC 6 - (1.)

TOPIC 7 - I don't know. There probably were such people and there were probably also people who had no will to resist and pretended to be civilians because they wanted to escape death.

TOPIC 8 - I don't know whether or not any exist.

TOPIC 9 - Judging from the standards that existed before the war, I suppose it's certainly true that Matsui was embarrassed by the acts committed by his troops. The fact that there were soldiers who committed rapes was a shame on the code of conduct of the pre-war Japanese Army and on the General's sense of morality. However, such acts are not of the type which can be judged in international courts. Matsui did not bear any responsibility which was deserving of being punished with the death penalty.

TOPIC 10 - Tang Shengzhi bears the most responsibility for the incident. Because the Japanese didn't want street-to-street fighting in Nanking they were urging the Chinese forces to surrender. Consequently, Tang should have declared Nanking an open city. If he had done that, there wouldn't have been fierce fighting within the city and there wouldn't have been such chaotic conditions. At the time that they were no longer able to defend Nanking with determination, they should have raised their white flags in good order

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and surrendered. It is a matter of grave concern to massacre POWs who surrender in this manner, but nothing like that happened in Nanking. In order to become an official POW you have to have a leader, and the Chinese soldiers whose leader Tang Shengzhi had gone AWOL deserved pity. Massacres of civilians were not reported in Beijing and Hankou which had been de-facto open cities.

TOPIC 11 - (2.)

TOPIC 12 - I don't think it happened. In debates with Katsuichi Honda, Shichihei Yamamoto refuted it completely. With a katana it isn't possible to cut down so many people.

TOPIC 13 - Iris Chang's book was, needless to say, a complete fraud. The reason behind putting out such a book was probably a response by Chinese-Americans to the claims of Chinese citizens who are trying to shake down Japan by putting pressure on us. In addition, Americans feel uneasy about the fact that people think that the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were Holocausts of the same caliber as Hitler's massacre of Jews. Therefore, they were thinking subconsciously "I want to find a justification for our slaughter of Japanese citizens" and wound up lapping it up and making "The Rape of Nanking" a bestseller. It was careless of the Japanese government to not respond properly to this book.

TOPIC 14 - Because Rabe was a representative for Siemens it is believed that he had reasons for hating the Japanese in the field of business. In addition he was a very narrow-minded man. Although he was the leader of the Nanking Safety Zone, he didn't understand what a safety zone is. Since he allowed Chinese soldiers bearing arms into the zone, it's therefore quite odd that he criticized the Japanese Army even when they undertook justifiable actions like searching for weapons. Leaving the diary aside, the only one of his deeds that I find commendable was when he gave a letter of thanks to the Japanese Army following its entrance into Nanking.

TOPIC 15 - Textbooks should tell the Japanese Army's side of the story. They could write, "In spite of the Japanese Army's requests, the Chinese refused to make Nanking an open city, and to make matters worse their commander Tang Shengzhi fled. There was street-to-street fighting and in the end innocent civilians were harmed."

TOPIC 16 - Comparing or equating the Nanking Incident to the Holocaust would be a tremendous error. The events in Nanking were an ordinary military action. For an engagement where the city itself was the battlefield, casualties among ordinary civilians were on the low side compared with more disastrous instances of urban warfare like the Warsaw Uprising of 1944.

TOPIC 17 - I have never changed my views on this matter. The books that I recommend are "A Summary of the Nanking Incident: Fifteen Grounds for Denying the Massacre(南京事件の総括虐殺否定十五の論拠)" by Masaaki Tanaka, "A Full Investigation of the 'Nanking Massacre'(南京虐殺」の徹底検証)" by Shudo Higashinakano, "The History of the Battle of Nanking(南京戦史)" by Kaikosha's Battle of Nanking Committee, "Witnesses of the Nanking Incident(聞き書南京事件)" by Kenichi Ara, and also the testimony of John Magee recorded in "Stenographic Record of the International Military Tribunal for the Far East(国際極東軍事裁判速記録)".


        AKIRA SUZUKI - Non-fiction writer

TOPIC 1 - (13.) Due to lack of historical materials it isn't even possible to hazard a guess.

TOPIC 2 - About midway between (2.) and (3.). There was a substantial element of aggression on Japan's part, but there are never, in the light of human history over

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these last hundred years, one-sided wars of aggression. When nations quarrel, both sides have their own reasons for quarreling.

TOPIC 3 - (4.) From the middle of November 1937 until New Year's Day of 1938. The Nanking Self-Government Committee, which was a predecessor body to the Reformed Government of the Republic of China, was founded on New Year's Day by Chinese citizens, so I believe that this marked the end of the incident.

TOPIC 4 - China insists on (3.), but I choose (1.). I say this because the Battle of Nanking arose as a consequence of the prior Battle of Shanghai.

TOPIC 5 - I don't call those killed in action massacre victims, but the executions by bayonet or firing squad that were undertaken even after hostilities had mostly ceased were a massacre.

TOPIC 6 - (4.) The Chinese soldiers in Nanking were in large part new recruits from farming families in outlying districts who had been pressed into service without sufficient training. Therefore, though some may have been regular soldiers, others were more like mere civilians.

TOPIC 7 - In a case like Nanking's, defining the term "plainclothes troops" is impossible.

TOPIC 8 - Given that the whole story of the Nanking Incident has not been made clear, we haven't reached the stage where one can answer this question.

TOPIC 9 - Matsui was, in a sense, a conservative idealist. He thought that he had to fight a clean war and it seems that he was mortified as atrocities such as rapes came to light.

However, as the man at the top, he was responsible for the scandals caused by his subordinates. From a modern standard of values, he should have taken responsibility and resigned like the president of a corporation who is involved in a scandal, but in Matsui's case I think that there was, first of all, a need for full disclosure into what kind of communications were being passed between him and the Japanese General Staff.

TOPIC 10 - I would say that the steps Tang took were basically proper from both a military and legal standpoint. He had given instructions to those under his command on how to escape and his responsibility for the incident is not so big. The person most responsible for it was Chiang Kai-Shek.

TOPIC 11 - As far as popular perception of the incident goes, I will select (3.). However, news about a massacre in Nanking was being reported in the West from the end of 1937 to the years 1938 or 1939. Harold Timperley's book "What War Means: The Japanese Terror in China" was published by Victor Gollancz Ltd in July 1938. The Chinese translation of this book was also published in Hankou at the same time.

TOPIC 12 - When I wrote the book "The Illusion of the Nanking Massacre(「南京大虐殺」のまぼろし)" I showed that there were few grounds on which to demonstrate their guilt, and I am certain that they were innocent.

TOPIC 13 - I haven't read Chang's book, and even now I have no intention of reading it.

TOPIC 14 - Speaking only about the parts that were published in Japan, there are passages in Rabe's diary here and there that furnished a lot of information, but Rabe's diary ought to be valued as an eyewitness account that was written closer to the time of the event than the written testimonies presented at the Tokyo War Crimes Trials. I won't mention more than that because don't want to delve into details here.

TOPIC 15 - This isn't an issue that can be understood by youth. This is something that should be taught to university students in Japanese history classes. At the level of middle school and high school, I don't think that there is a need to state anything more than "During the Second Sino-Japanese War the Japanese Army occupied Nanking in December of 1937."

TOPIC 16 - The Holocaust was of a completely different nature. A holocaust implies the unrestricted killing of a specific ethnic group and it is obvious that Japan didn't have any such intention for the Chinese people. Still, it seems a fact that

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for an act of war the Japanese Army did commit a number of excesses in Nanking.

TOPIC 17 - Because I have written two books on this subject, "The Illusion of the Nanking Massacre(「南京大虐殺」のまぼろし)" and "The New Illusion of the Nanking Massacre(新「南京大虐殺」のまぼろし)" which were published nearly 30 years apart, there are big differences between the first one, written in 1972, and the second one, written in 1999. The reason for the differences is that my first book mostly relied on interviews with surviving Japanese because trips to China were impossible before restoration of diplomatic relations with the PRC, but my second book relied primarily on materials that had been published in China.

An especially big point is that it is clearly stated in the directory put out by the Chinese Social Sciences Publishing Co. that "After the Marco Polo Bridge Incident, Timperley became an advisor to the KMT Central Information Department and engaged in propaganda work in the United States and Great Britain", and almost the same thing is also stated in the obituaries that were published in English newspapers. Even so, there are also places where these sources differ on the details, and it has not been publicly disclosed what these sources of historical information were based off. For example, in the Chinese sources Timperley's date and time of death are unknown, but in the English sources they are expressly stated. When China's freedom of information laws are liberalized, I think I could produce an important work which would be truly revealing.

I think that Edgar Snow's "The Battle for Asia" and Harold Timperley's "What War Means: The Japanese Terror in China" are important sources, but I want people to read what's in them with a critical eye. There is no truly informative book in existence that utilizes data on the Nanking Incident coming from China.


        KENICHI ARA - Journalist

TOPIC 1 - (12.)

TOPIC 2 - (3.)

TOPIC 3 - (2.)

TOPIC 4 - (3.)

TOPIC 5 - It indicates what the Tokyo War Crimes Trials had called a "massacre", which is the term people started to use during the trials. It refers to the slaughter of civilians and defeated soldiers.

TOPIC 6 - (1.)

TOPIC 7 - The Chinese soldiers in Nanking after its fall fit this definition of plainclothes troops.

TOPIC 8 - No such primary sources exist.

TOPIC 9 - The Nanking Incident itself was fabricated after the fact so General Matsui was not responsible for it. Concerning the fact that problems arose over the interests and properties of neutral countries, I think those things were unpreventable.

TOPIC 10 - In the light of China's history, his acts were typical of a Chinese military commander and it seems to me that he bears no particular responsibility.

TOPIC 11 - (2.)

TOPIC 12 - What was written about the contest in contemporary newspaper articles were fictional events.

TOPIC 13 - I was shocked when I read David Bergamini's "Japan's Imperial Conspiracy" and I feel the same way about it as I do about Iris Chang's book. Though they are free to print and describe what they want, the media who would praise a book like this bear a grave responsibility for it.

TOPIC 14 - Rabe understood what was really going on in the Nanking Safety Zone and his diary is valuable. It's also clear that Rabe was the man responsible for the chaos prevailing within the Zone.

TOPIC 15 - It would be a mistake to describe it in textbooks as a historical fact.

TOPIC 16 - The "Nanking Incident" was a normal combat action.

TOPIC 17 - They haven't changed. The books that I recommend are "The Illusion of the Nanking Massacre(「南京大虐殺」のまぼろし)" and "The New Illusion of the Nanking Massacre(新「南京大虐殺」のまぼろし)"

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by Akira Suzuki and "The History of the Battle of Nanking(南京戦史)" by Kaikosha's Battle of Nanking Committee.


        YOSHINORI KOBAYASHI - Manga artist

TOPIC 1 - (13.) Since there are no primary source materials which say that there was a massacre in Nanking, there is no real way to answer this question.

TOPIC 2 - (4.) Since no primary sources exist, just as I said above, there is no way to answer this question either.

TOPIC 3 - If you insist that I say something, then I guess (3.).

TOPIC 4 - (5.) Because we don't even know in the first place whether or not there was such a thing called the "Nanking Incident", just saying that the Nanking Incident took place between such-and-such a place and such-and-such a place is bizarre and how could I be expected to respond?

TOPIC 5 - Once again, as before, there is no way to answer this question.

TOPIC 6 - If you are going to say that they changed into civilian clothes, then that means they couldn't be anything other than plainclothes troops, so if you insist that I answer, I have no choice but to say (1.).

TOPIC 7 - If they became plainclothes troops, we have to say that they were a danger. They weren't mere civilians and that means that there was a possibility that they would engage in harassment operations or arson.

TOPIC 8 - If there is, I want them to be put forward. I'd like to verify for myself right now whether or not they're the real thing.

TOPIC 9 - The folly of this question is that you attached "for the Nanking Incident". I can't answer this question.

TOPIC 10 - Leaving aside issues over the Nanking Incident, that man (Tang Shengzhi) bears the most responsibility for the chaos in Nanking. What I want to say is, what on earth was he thinking in not controlling his men properly?

TOPIC 11 - It could be said that people started calling it that at the Tokyo War Crimes Trials, and that the term was then disseminated by Asahi Shimbun's "Travels in China".

TOPIC 12 - That is a total lie.

TOPIC 13 - Iris Chang's book has always been a complete fraud.

TOPIC 14 - I analyzed Rabe's entire diary myself, but his saying that Chinese people were killed is just rumors. There wasn't even a single case where he says that he saw a murder by the Japanese Army first-hand. Maybe it has a little value as a source of hearsay, but it's just information to aid in finding out how Rabe was fooled by these rumors.

What has the most historical value because Rabe wrote it is the letter addressed to Japan's consulate general in Nanking requesting food aid which is included in a document collection edited by Tomio Hora. Rabe wrote in the letter that right after the fall of Nanking the population of the Nanking Safety Zone was 200,000 people and that one month later it had increased to 250,000 people. That is a primary source.

TOPIC 15 - We need to write in textbooks that, even though people have described facts that have been widely talked about because the case was dealt with at the Tokyo War Crimes Trials, exactly what is fact about this case has still not been determined. We need to write in textbooks that, though China has stated figures such as 300,000 for the number of victims, China's numbers are totally without foundation and the true number is under discussion.

TOPIC 16 - People who would deem the events in Nanking as comparable to the Holocaust are people who still don't understand what war is. Today's textbooks usually start, in the section on the Second World War, by introducing Anne Frank's diary or something like that, but the Holocaust and the tragedy of the Jewish people is a matter that has nothing to do with war. If people write textbooks like this,

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the Holocaust will end up getting misunderstood as being a war. The Holocaust, as an ethnic cleansing, is not the same as a war, and Japan didn't do any such thing in China.

It also seems unlikely to me that the Japanese Army committed any excesses over the course of the normal combat action.

TOPIC 17 - Concerning this problem, many Japanese people generally speak of it only in the sense of an imagined vision. I too was like that in the past. In my mental image, I used to take it for granted that saying that the Nanking Massacre definitely didn't happen was right-wing. That was how I thought until very recently. Because people like Nobukatsu Fujioka say so frequently in lectures that the Nanking Massacre is a total lie, I was worried that if I said that I would get mistaken for a rightist.

However, when I started to look closely at the data, the massacre theory gradually fell apart. Thus I eventually got to the point where I didn't think that I could say that the massacre was a historical fact. Still, my ideas may change if new primary sources begin to turn up. For the issue of the comfort women, there was not one source which indicated that forced recruitment by the country and government or anything like that had taken place. For now, I also view issues relating to Nanking the same way I view the issue of the comfort women.

The books that I recommend are "A Summary of the Nanking Incident: Fifteen Grounds for Denying the Massacre(南京事件の総括虐殺否定十五の論拠)" by Masaaki Tanaka and "A Full Investigation of the 'Nanking Massacre'(南京虐殺」の徹底検証)" by Shudo Higashinakano.


        NOBUO FUJI - Researcher on the Tokyo War Crimes Trials

TOPIC 1 - (13.) I don't think that any people were massacred (killed illegally).

TOPIC 2 - (4.) I don't believe that the Japanese Army acted aggressively towards China. The war arose from the Marco Polo Bridge Incident in which Japanese troops on training exercises were fired upon from somewhere, and hostilities were gradually opened by the armies of both China and Japan. Thus, the deaths that resulted from the armed conflict were combat fatalities and were not massacre victims. It appears that there were individuals among the Chinese soldiers who became plainclothes troops by throwing off their uniforms and donning civilian gear, and were then discovered and executed, but such executions do not constitute a massacre.

TOPIC 3 - (2.)

TOPIC 4 - (3.)

TOPIC 5 - I don't believe there was any massacre by the Japanese Army in Nanking, so

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a definition of "massacre" isn't possible.

TOPIC 6 - (1.)

TOPIC 7 - After the fall of Nanking some Chinese soldiers stole the clothes of Chinese civilians and entered the Nanking Safety Zone wearing them like ordinary civilians. Afterwards, inspections by the Japanese Army exposed the fact that they were not civilians and they were executed. I believe that the Chinese soldiers who took part in such acts were plainclothes troops.

TOPIC 8 - I don't know of any such historical documents.

TOPIC 9 - General Matsui wasn't directly responsible for the Nanking Incident. However, individuals among the troops under Matsui's command did cause scandals and while few in number they did exist (according to reports by Japanese military police), so due to the fact that he was supreme commander during the capture of Nanking we have to say that he was indirectly responsible.

TOPIC 10 - General Tang Shengzhi declined to respond to the Japanese Army's request to surrender and reportedly escaped from Nanking before its fall. I think he bears a very grave responsibility.

TOPIC 11 - (2.) I'm not aware that any reports of the Nanking Incident existed prior to the start of the proceedings during the Tokyo War Crimes Trials.

TOPIC 12 - I believe that story is simply a hoax.

TOPIC 13 - The work has no merit at all. I think that this person named Iris Chang wrote it based off information inspired by anti-Japanese Americans she knew, probably overseas Chinese in large part. It's surprising that such a book would become a bestseller in the United States.

TOPIC 14 - I think that Rabe's diary does not deserve any esteem.

TOPIC 15 - The event people call the "Nanking Incident" which is dealt with in the textbooks currently being used in Japan is something which has been copied and pasted by textbook authors who agree with the verdict written up at the Tokyo War Crimes Trials which was based off the speeches of the prosecutors and the forged evidence they put forward. We are teaching fake history to students.

In order to rectify this, it is important that textbook authors strive to discover the truth about the so-called "Nanking Incident" after having studied a lot more works on the subject.

TOPIC 16 - I believe that what is called the "Nanking Incident" was made up by the prosecution at the start of the Tokyo War Crimes Trials, so I can't compare it to the Holocaust of Nazi Germany.

Many Chinese soldiers were killed in action in Nanking due to the war between China and Japan, but I can't answer the question of whether or not the so-called "Nanking Incident" went beyond a normal combat action because I believe that the incident itself was a fabrication.

TOPIC 17 - My view, that the so-called "Nanking Incident" was invented at the Tokyo War Crimes Trials, has been consistent from the time I sat in attendance at the Trials.

Some reference works for thinking about the Nanking Incident are "The New Illusion of the Nanking Massacre(新「南京大虐殺」のまぼろし)" by Akira Suzuki, "A Full Investigation of the 'Nanking Massacre'(「南京虐殺」の徹底検証)" by Shudo Higashinakano, "The Fabricated Nanking Massacre: The Full Story of the Battle Strategy and the Frightening Nature of Media Reporting(仕組まれた"南京大虐殺" - 攻略作戦の全貌とマスコミ報道の怖さ)" by Mitsuru Oi, "A Summary of the Nanking Incident: Fifteen Grounds for Denying the Massacre(南京事件の総括虐殺否定十五の論拠)" by Masaaki Tanaka, and my own work "How the 'Nanking Massacre' Was Created: The Deception of the Tokyo War Crimes Trials(「南京大虐殺」はこうして作られた - 東京裁判の欺瞞)".

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        KATSUHIKO TAKAIKE - Lawyer

TOPIC 1 - (12.) I certainly don't think that the soldiers of the Japanese Army committed no crimes at all in Nanking. However, those are different incidents which are not related to the Nanking Incident. Here the Nanking Incident refers to the so-called "Nanking Massacre".

TOPIC 2 - (2.)+(3.) However, it was not a war of aggression.

TOPIC 3 - (2.) Because I don't think that the Nanking Incident happened in the first place I can't answer the question of how long the event lasted, but don't the people who have termed it the "Nanking Incident" refer to (2.)? (I'm not the one saying this, but it's the original claim of those who affirm the massacre.)

TOPIC 4 - (5.) I will include the city of Nanking and a few of the surrounding areas like Xiaguan. I don't think that the Nanking Incident happened, so here also I can't answer the question of where it took place, but haven't massacre affirmationists initially claimed that it occurred in the city of Nanking and some of the regions around it? When they say "in Nanking", it's a wide area that they say is several times bigger than the city itself.

TOPIC 5 - I think that massacre affirmationists say that it refers to large-scale killings through cruel means, things like tying up people's hands and feet with wire and throwing them alive into rivers en masse.

How we think about the executions of POWs today is debated in some quarters, but that is a problem that should be investigated purely academically in the light of the international laws of that time, and I don't think that it's related to a massacre. Only after such an investigation has taken place will I accept the possibility that these executions were illegal.

TOPIC 6 - They were plainclothes troops in general terms.

TOPIC 7 - The fact that I answered "in general terms" for the previous question is connected to this question. In fact, a large quantity of weapons were seized in the refugee zone and illegal acts were undertaken under the orders of Chinese officers that were made to look like crimes by Japanese troops. In this sense, I think it's fine to think of the Chinese soldiers who hid in the refugee zone as being plainclothes troops in general terms, but for each soldier there was a need to consider it on an individual case-by-case basis, and for that reason screening was carried out by the Japanese Army.

TOPIC 8 - I don't know. I haven't seen any.

TOPIC 9 - Since I don't recognize a "Nanking Incident", it's impossible for me to say who is responsible for it. Leaving that aside, it was thought that General Matsui was responsible for a few scandals relating to the tearful rebuke he gave his subordinates, but, as we see in that briefing, I believe he discharged his duty. Consequently he does not bear responsibility.

TOPIC 10 - Here too, because there was no Nanking Incident, Tang wasn't at fault for it, but in the main he does bear a lot of responsibility for the deaths of Chinese soldiers. As commander, General Tang was responsible for putting out orders to fight or retreat in an appropriate manner and in this regard he wasn't doing his duty at all.

TOPIC 11 - (4.) Of course (1.), (2.), and (3.) are all correct depending on what you mean. I selected (4.) meaning when it was written even in textbooks and used extensively as a tool of Chinese propaganda.

TOPIC 12 - I think that there is no truth to that story.

TOPIC 13 - Iris Chang's book has no value whatsoever as a history book. However, I was surprised by her organizational power insofar as the book has sold such a large number of copies and is displayed in every bookstore in America

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and in the bookstores of every airport in the world. It made me conscious of the powers aligned behind her.

TOPIC 14 - I think that Rabe's diary is a biased book, but by comparing it with other sources I can approve of the accurate parts.

TOPIC 15 - There is no need to mention it in textbooks at all.

TOPIC 16 - I think that it was an ordinary combat action.

On this point, it should be taken into consideration that, like economists say, the Japanese economy had achieved full employed from 1935 to 1937 and economic conditions in Japan were at their best point in the pre-war era. That means in other words that the rank-and-file soldiers knew that if they returned to Japan, good jobs were waiting for them. I can't think that soldiers such as these were generally disturbed individuals.

TOPIC 17 - No change in particular. The books that I recommend are "The History of the Battle of Nanking(南京戦史)" by Kaikosha's Battle of Nanking Committee, "A Summary of the Nanking Incident: Fifteen Grounds for Denying the Massacre(南京事件の総括虐殺否定十五の論拠)" by Masaaki Tanaka, "A Full Investigation of the 'Nanking Massacre'(南京虐殺」の徹底検証)" by Shudo Higashinakano, "This Is What Really Happened In Nanking(本当はこうだった南京事件)" by Yoshiaki Itakura, and "Witnesses of the Nanking Incident(聞き書南京事件)" by Kenichi Ara.


        MASAAKI TANAKA - President of the Society to Protect the Koa Kannon

TOPIC 1 - (12.) No evidence of a massacre in Nanking exists anywhere. For instance, no wholesale massacre was seen by even a single person on the 15-member committee, including members from the United States, Great Britain, Germany, and Denmark, who were stationed in the Nanking Safety Zone and who were able to freely tour both inside and outside the walls of Nanking. No documents exist either.

And also, no one said that a massacre had occurred or anything like that. At the time of the incident, neither the enemy Chiang government nor the Chinese Communist Party said that a massacre had occurred.

TOPIC 2 - (3.) I refer to the soldiers who threw away their uniforms and sought refuge in the Nanking Safety Zone as a mufti army or plainclothes troops. They were in violation of the international laws of war and their punishments were not a massacre.

TOPIC 3 - (2.) is correct. Among the majority of the advocates of the Great Massacre School, including former Asahi Shimbun reporter Katsuichi Honda, there are those who are expanding the time and space of the massacre, saying that the massacre of 300,000 was from the Battle of Shanghai up to the end of the Battle of Nanking and includes that area plus the prefectures surrounding Nanking, but that is wrong.

TOPIC 4 - (2.) However, areas of fierce fighting on the outskirts of Nanking like Purple Mountain, Yuhuatai, Xinhezhen, and Xiaguan are also included.

TOPIC 5 - Massacre refers to the slaughter of non-combatants under order. Since the Tokyo War Crimes Trials the incident has gotten publicized in Japan as the so-called "Nanking Massacre".

In order to try Japan for crimes against humanity at the Tokyo Trials they had to pretend that there was a big massacre in Nanking. General Douglas MacArthur thus asked his agents to go to Nanking to search for information. The Nationalist Government of China undertook to expose the Japanese Army's massacre by bringing together the senior members of 14 groups including the Physicians' Association, the Lawyers' Association, and the Chamber of Commerce and Industry. At first they were silent and no one declared anything, but they were induced through various means. One man stated, "I saw the bodies of 279,586 people." A report on the massacre of 340,000 was submitted to the Tokyo War Crimes Trials

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by throwing together these made-up declarations. That total was also false. As a result the number was so nonsensical that they narrowed it down and at the Tokyo Trials they handed down a dual verdict that held the Japanese Army responsible for the massacre of more than 200,000 people and General Matsui for the massacre of more than 100,000 people.

TOPIC 6 - (1.)

TOPIC 7 - On December 9 General Matsui scattered propaganda leaflets over Nanking calling for General Tang Shengzhi to surrender the city peaceably, but Tang didn't respond and so on the next day at noon sharp Matsui switched to an all-out attack. Nanking fell on December 13.

The night before Tang had escaped Nanking and fled. The Chinese soldiers, who were left without a commander, cast off their uniforms and caps, stole the clothes of civilian residents of Nanking, and invaded the Nanking Safety Zone. They had concealed their weapons such as pistols, rifles, and grenades and sometimes sniped at Japanese soldiers. That is a violation of the international laws of war and obviously the violators were to be executed. In this regard, I have the same opinion as Professor Junpei Shinobu.

TOPIC 8 - The execution of plainclothes troops is definitely not a breach of international law. Even MS Bates, a professor at Nanking University and member of the International Committee for the Nanking Safety Zone, at first considered this a violation of international law and was publicly stating that the Japanese Army had massacred 40,000 people in the safety zone. Afterwards he realized that they were not illegal and repudiated that figure. I could give other similar examples.

TOPIC 9 - Iwane Matsui graduated from the Army War College at the top of his class and willingly did service as a resident military officer in China for sixteen years. He was furthermore the army's supreme authority on Chinese affairs who had supported Sun Yat-sen's Second Revolution and had devoted his life to Pan-Asianism. As soon as the Battle of Shanghai broke out on August 13 1937 the General Staff Office recalled him into active service from the reserves and the Shanghai Expeditionary Force was organized under his command. Against about 35,000 Japanese troops the Chinese Army reached a military strength of 400,000 men and defeat seemed certain, so an army corps under Heisuke Yanagawa landed at Hangzhou Bay and the situation completely changed.

On December 1 Hayao Tada, the Vice Chief of the General Staff, flew in from Japan and the order to take Nanking was handed down. General Matsui was entrusted to lead the Central China Area Army which headed for Nanking with both the Shanghai Expeditionary Force and Yanagawa's 10th Army under its oversight. Matsui advised his enemy General Tang Shengzhi to give up Nanking peaceably, but Matsui was rebuffed and when he took the offensive on December 10 he issued an official instruction that read, "The entry of the Imperial Army into a foreign capital will be the most momentous event in our history.

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In this place where the world is watching us, rigidly maintain military discipline and set an example of righteousness for the future." He gave road maps of Nanking to his troops which expressly indicated places like the Nanking Safety Zone, embassies and legations of many foreign countries, the Ming Xiaoling Mausoleum, and the Sun Yat-sen Mausoleum. He forbade entry into these areas and ordered the stationing of sentries outside them.

Furthermore, he strictly ordered that, "We will sentence to severe punishment people who start a fire, even through inattentiveness, or loot." As he also stated at the Tokyo War Crimes Trials, Matsui used the argument that his duty was supervision of the Expeditionary Force and the 10th Army and that direct responsibility within Japan's armies for management of civil and military discipline and exposure and punishment of crimes rested upon the divisions who had power over their legal affairs departments and military police units. However, like I said in the previous topic, no large-scale mass murder occurred in Nanking.

In 1940 General Matsui built the Koa Kannon in Atami where he did religious services for the Japanese who fell in battle and, transcending wartime emotions, for the Chinese as well. Matsui thought that these revered victims from the armies of both China and Japan had given their lives for the future revival of Asia.

TOPIC 10 - Tang Shengzhi alone insisted on defending Nanking even though other military leaders like Li Zongren and Bai Chongxi argued that the battle would necessitate huge loss of life and should be avoided. Tang became commander by currying Chiang Kai-Shek's favor.

Although General Matsui urged him to surrender peaceably, he refused. On top of that, on December 12, the night before the fall of Nanking, he abandoned his staff officers and the men under his command and escaped by himself to Pukou under cover of darkness. For a commander, that is greatest shame and the greatest dishonor.

TOPIC 11 - (2.) as I have already noted. About 120 cameramen and reporters, including 5 from foreign countries, entered Nanking at the time it fell to do reporting within the city, but they didn't see rivers of blood, or mountains of corpses, or the scene of a massacre. The space within the walls of Nanking is about 40 square kilometers which is two-thirds the size of Tokyo's Setagaya Ward, or if we compare it to a city, is about the size of Kamakura.

120 members of the press were on assignment here, and in addition 15 writers and critics including Soichi Oya, Yaso Saijo, and Fumiko Hayashi entered Nanking a little later, but none of them saw the scene of a massacre or anything like that.

The commentator Kenichi Ara wrote "Witnesses of the Nanking Incident(聞き書南京事件)" in which he directly interviews 36 critics, newspaper reporters, and officers who were in Nanking and none of them spoke of mountains of corpses or massacres. The media of foreign countries also did not discuss it. Until the Tokyo War Crimes Trials opened no one had even mentioned a massacre in Nanking.

TOPIC 12 - The 100-Man Killing Contest of Lieutenants Mukai and Noda was a fictional news story adopted by Kazuo Asami, a journalist at the Tokyo Nichi Nichi Shimbun, now the Mainichi Shimbun, in order to boost morale on the home front. Mukai was a field artillery commander and Noda was a battalion aide-de-camp and because of their duties neither of them were in a position to be able to do anything like a killing contest.

In addition, the idea of a katana cutting off as many as 100 heads is simply physically impossible.

TOPIC 13 - Concerning this, as is written in a work jointly authored by Professors Shudo Higashinakano and Nobukatsu Fujioka, "Research on Chang's 'The Rape of Nanking'(「ザ・レイプ・オブ・南京」の研究)", Chang's book was published in December of 1997 and instantly became a bestseller of more than 500,000 copies enjoying great popularity in the United States.

However, its contents are full of errors. 34 photos were printed in the work but these also are hoaxes or staged and doctored photos

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and not even one of them proves a massacre in Nanking.

The subtitle of the book is " The Forgotten Holocaust Of World War II". Chang says that the Nanking Incident is Japan's holocaust against China of the same class as Nazi Germany's Final Solution. This is a work of anti-Japanese propaganda typical of the Chinese and it could be seen as an international psywar that has recycled 60-year-old wartime propaganda.

The California State Legislature was even inspired by this book to pass a resolution demanding an apology and compensation from Japan. This book is something dangerous which might even become Japan's own "black legend".

TOPIC 14 - It is called the diary of John Rabe and in Japanese translation it was published as "The Truth About Nanking", but it wasn't a diary written at the time he was leader of the International Committee for the Nanking Safety Zone, but rather was a work of fiction that he wrote after returning to Germany. As noted by Doctor Radhabinod Pal, an Indian judge at Tokyo War Crimes Trials, there is a considerable difference in credibility between a diary and a work of fiction written many years after the fact.

I also have read the Japanese translation of Rabe's diary, but it doesn't mention that fact that General Matsui ceased hostilities between December 9 and noon of the next day and urged Tang Shengzhi to surrender peaceably, nor Rabe's own message of thanks for the fact that the Japanese Army didn't bomb or shell the safety zone, nor the fact that the Nanking Self-Government Committee was set up on January 3 and took over the work of the International Committee for the Nanking Safety Zone. It is an untrustworthy and anti-Japanese book in which Rabe brings up stories of arson and rape in a thoughtless manner.

TOPIC 15 - On October 16 2000, the Sankei Shimbun reported "CHINA PRESSURES JAPAN ON TEXTBOOK CONTENT" in big letters on the top of the front page. In the side-heading it reported that the Chinese had come with a stern message for the Ministry of Education, Science and Culture and members of the ruling party, "Don't minimize references to the Nanking Massacre and the comfort women!" The article reckoned that China began another internal intervention in conjunction with the new national curriculum coming into force in 2002 because the masochistic bias of history education was becoming a problem with Japanese popular opinion and also because the Japanese Society for History Textbook Reform had been founded.

"I think that Japan is the worst country in the world... Please don't see me as being like those beastly Japanese soldiers."

That was a in student's book report that he wrote after learning Japanese history in a public middle school. Japanese textbooks describe the imaginary Nanking Incident as a massacre of more than 300,000 people and denounce the cruel ways that the killing took place. I wonder if there are countries, and if so which countries, that would write imaginary atrocities and misdeeds of their country into textbooks and teach them to their own young people? I want to tell China that we've had enough with their interference in our internal affairs.

TOPIC 16 - The Holocaust and the Battle of Nanking are on two completely different dimensions and have nothing in common. The battle to capture Nanking was obviously a normal combat action. It also seems unlikely that the Japanese Army committed any transgressions over the course of the operation.

Still, there were areas where the Battle of Nanking was different from a normal act of war. Firstly the fact that, as the Japanese Army feared from the beginning, the Nanking Safety Zone, which covered an area of 3.8 square kilometers (four times the size of Kokyogaien National Gardens), didn't have either barbed wire entanglements or natural barriers like rivers, and this allowed many plainclothes troops to force their way in. Secondly, the fact that the plainclothes guerrillas, a kind of soldier China has made its own, had swapped their uniforms for everyday clothes

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and surged into the Safety Zone with concealed weapons. Thirdly, the fact that the Japanese Army exposed and executed those plainclothes troops, which was not a violation of international law. The aforementioned three points are not seen in standard warfare.

There were no such troubles in Father Jacquinot's safety zone which had been set up in the same manner in Shanghai.

TOPIC 17 - My thoughts about the Nanking Incident have never changed. In 1933 I graduated from the Koagaku Private School and, through an introduction from my beloved teacher Yasaburo Shimonaka, I met General Iwane Matsui and worked at the Greater Asia Association where Matsui was serving as president. I accompanied General Matsui on sympathy visits to his wounded men at army hospitals in Osaka, Nagoya, Kanazawa, and Sendai. He then said to me, "I am worried about the state of public security in Nanking since its capture. Would you go inspect the city for me?"

Because at that time I was editing "Greater Asianism", the official bulletin of the Association, I received war correspondent status from the War Department. I headed for Nanking at the end of June 1938, about half a year from its fall.

Because of the introduction from General Matsui, in Nanking I was guided through not only the Nanking Safety Zone of course but also through every former battlefield including Purple Mountain, Yuhuatai, Xinhezhen, Caoxiexia and Xiaguan, as well as POW camps and other places. The population had already reached nearly 400,000, and even women walking alone were in no danger. I realized that there was no problem with public order.

In 1935 Tetsuzan Nagata, head of the Bureau of Military Affairs, had been cut down in the War Department by Lieutenant Colonel Saburo Aizawa and General Matsui, feeling responsibility as a senior military officer, chose to resign and be transferred onto the reserve list. He was the first of the five generals from his graduating class to retire from active service. As was feared, the February 26 Incident happened next year and the four others were also put on the reserve list.

Chiang Kai-Shek's anti-Japanese campaign was intense at that time and the way things were, war between China and Japan was a frightening possibility. In January of 1936 Matsui made a trip to China with me as his secretary to give speeches in the hopes of prevailing upon Chiang and the southwestern warlords. The southwestern warlords Hu Hanmin, Li Zongren, and Bai Chongxi were all disciples of Sun Yat-Sen, the father of the country.

General Matsui preached the path of Sino-Japanese harmony to each of the three individually. Did not the founding father Sun Yat-Sen say "The relationship between China and Japan is one of common existence or extinction. Without Japan there would be no China; without China there would be no Japan"? Even while Chiang was receiving aid from the United States and Soviet Union and had adopted an anti-Japanese stance, Matsui boldly persuaded the warlords to change their policies and join Chiang's central government. He then went to Nanking to prevail upon Chiang Kai-shek. In Nanking Matsui was warmly welcomed by both General He Yingqin and Foreign Minister Zhang Qun. Matsui had aided both Chiang and Zhang while they were studying overseas in Japan, even letting them stay at his house. Matsui spoke of his tour of the southwest, and urged upon Chiang a cessation of his anti-Japanese policies and the dangers of friendship with the USSR. In two reception parties held for General Matsui, Chiang accepted his intentions. Matsui did a report on his talks with Chiang for Prime Minister Koki Hirota and he recommended a policy of rapprochement with China.

Matsui had thought that his Sino-Japanese peace plan had succeeded, but then Chiang, who was heading to Xian in November of the same year to encourage his troops, was imprisoned at the behest of Zhang Xueliang.

The communists received a telegram from Stalin to "Take full advantage of this opportunity!", and through the mediation of Zhou Enlai, Chiang signed a six-point pact which included formation of a United Front and ceasing the civil war in favor of anti-Japanese resistance. Chiang then returned to Nanking.

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In July of next year the Marco Polo Bridge Incident occurred and then at Tungchow more than 200 Japanese were massacred. Then the war spread to Shanghai and escalated into the Second Sino-Japanese War. As I indicated, it was an irony of fate that General Matsui would then be returned to active duty. The Japanese forces succeeded in the conquest of Nanking taking their orders from General Matsui, the leader of the Shanghai Expeditionary Force, a post which later became Supreme Commander of the Central China Expeditionary Army.

At the post-war Tokyo War Crimes Trials, General Matsui was hanged for a massacre in Nanking which never happened.

In order to clear Matsui of these false accusations I labored on researching the Nanking Incident. As a result of this research, I published three books in succession, "The Fabrication of the Nanking Massacre(南京虐殺の虚構)" in 1984, "The Field Diary of General Iwane Matsui(松井石根大将の陣中日記)" in 1985, and "A Summary of the Nanking Incident: Fifteen Grounds for Denying the Massacre(南京事件の総括虐殺否定十五の論拠)" in 1987.

And now in the United States there is Iris Chang's "The Rape of Nanking". This book has mistakes in more than 90 places, the 34 photos that were inserted are also fakes, and Chang sensationalistically writes that the Japanese Army brutally killed more than 300,000 Chinese people and that it was a holocaust rivalling that of the Nazis. Immediately it gathered popularity and sold more than 500,000 copies. And that's not all. There was even a resolution passed by the California State Legislature demanding an apology and reparations from Japan. Unfortunately, neither the government nor the people of Japan made any adequate rebuttal in English to this book.

The aforementioned book "A Summary of the Nanking Incident: Fifteen Grounds for Denying the Massacre" is the essence of my research on the subject. I am planning to translate it into English and deliver it to about 3,000 people including prominent American politicians, scholars, journalists, and opinion leaders.

Fortunately, I have like-minded associates who are taking care of the translation for me, and I expect that it will be complete by the end of the year 2000. I am requesting that people help me with this project. It is crucial above all that Americans know that there absolutely was not a holocaust in Nanking like Chang says, nor a massacre of more than 300,000, nor 80,000 rape victims. I believe that this publication will be imperative for the future of Japan and I hope I will receive your support.


        MITSURU OI - Researcher on military history

TOPIC 1 - (12.)

TOPIC 2 - (3.)

TOPIC 3 - (3.)

TOPIC 4 - (3.)

TOPIC 5 - The murder of ordinary civilians.

TOPIC 6 - (1.)

TOPIC 7 - no answer

TOPIC 8 - There are none.

TOPIC 9 - Acts like rapes which happen in all armies are the responsibility of the commander.

TOPIC 10 - His acts were the very definition of irresponsibility.

TOPIC 11 - (3.)

TOPIC 12 - Through common sense alone we can suppose that it was a war tale. Akira Suzuki's "The Illusion of the Nanking Massacre(「南京大虐殺」のまぼろし)" proved that it was a lie so you shouldn't even ask a question like this... Or rather, I would be grateful if the esteemed magazine didn't.

TOPIC 13 - Chang's book is not even worth commenting on.

TOPIC 14 - Rabe's diary is emotional and untrustworthy.

TOPIC 15 - No need. Is there any need to write things that never happened in textbooks?

TOPIC 16 - Some of the punishments may have gone too far. However, differences exist between frenzied battlefields and times of peace.

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Men killing men is the definition of war.

TOPIC 17 - My views have not changed.


        TOSHIO MATSUMURA - Researcher on the Nanking Incident

TOPIC 1 - (13.) If we view the "massacre" as illegal murders then the targets of the massacre were the individuals who were mistaken for plainclothes troops and executed, who I will discuss later, and the exceptional cases perpetrated by outlaws who we can't say were nonexistent even in the Japanese Army, no differently than in the armies of other countries including the American army occupying Japan. The total is unknown, but even if we add in all the people who were probably mistakenly executed, we are talking about hundreds of people. 300,000 is the figure first uttered by Harold Timperley, who claimed Father Jacquinot as his source. Combat fatalities shouldn't be called massacre victims, nor should the executed former soldiers who had fled and were arrested in the Nanking Safety Zone for hostile acts.

TOPIC 2 - (4.) Because both those killed in action and those executed are included among the dead, I refuse to use the word "massacre victim" which is a generic buzzword for the two combined.

TOPIC 3 - (4.) From about December 13 1937 to the middle of February 1938 when it was being recorded by "Documents of the Nanking Safety Zone" and Timperley's book "What War Means: The Japanese Terror in China". I say this because the "Nanking Incident" originated with the International Committee for the Nanking Safety Zone and also a few of the Americans among them. The incident was just reported through these two books as a collection of contemporary rumors and no other "Nanking Incident" apart from this ever happened. The news stories of F. Tillman Durdin and others were also hearsay from committee member MS Bates, and the same is true for the articles in Chinese papers. The articles of Durdin and Archibald Steele were not things that they had seen with their own eyes, except for the executions at Nanking's wharf on December 15.

TOPIC 4 - (4.) The information from foreigners was largely the events within the Nanking Safety Zone. The dead in rural areas surveyed by Lewis Smythe were not specified as victims of the Japanese Army. The range of the incident was expanded due to evidence cooked up by the Nationalist Government of China which was submitted at the Nanking War Crimes Tribunal, and then the range even went up to the Battle of Shanghai because of the ideas of members of Japan's so-called "Great Massacre School", who understood that the number massacred, which had risen to tens of thousands in such a small area, had become preposterous.

TOPIC 5 - Like the previous topic 2, saying that people were "massacred" in Nanking is incorrect. If we say that they were massacred, then we should describe all the dead from every war in history as "massacre victims".

TOPIC 6 - Please refer to my answer for the next topic.

TOPIC 7 - The soldiers of that time are classified into three categories: (1.)Trained plainclothes guerrillas who had intended from the beginning to infiltrate the safety zone. (2.)Those who had fought as regular soldiers but sought to return to the fight after the fall of Nanking by changing into the civilian clothing that they had prepared beforehand. (3.)People who stole clothes from refugees simply out of fear for their lives and sought sanctuary in the safety zone. Since none of these groups surrendered, we can't call them civilians.

Because they were in a unique position that international law hadn't foreseen, foreigners can't say that their executions were illegal murders. This was one reason underscoring that the foreigners in an Asian land simply couldn't understand what was going on.

TOPIC 8 - Please refer to my answer for the previous topic 7.

TOPIC 9 - General Matsui issued strict orders to maintain military discipline so that there

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would not be even one crime perpetrated by the outlaws I mentioned in topic 1. There is no way that he could be responsible for the "Nanking Incident" which was loudly proclaimed only by foreigners.

TOPIC 10 - Even if we acknowledge that his strategically reckless advocacy of defending Nanking to the death was an order from Chiang Kai-shek, Tang, as Durdin reported, did not prepare boats which would have been able to withdraw his troops across the Yangtze River and what's more he quickly pulled back his elite units and sent against the Japanese Army a force cobbled together from the army enervated by the Battle of Shanghai and the child soldiers and "kidnapped troops" who were forcibly abducted from the countryside of southern China. Because of this, many of them went out of control the moment that their defenses collapsed and a large number died in the mass chaos they caused, especially at Xiaguan and Yijiang Gate. They thought only about fleeing and didn't surrender to the Japanese Army in an organized manner.

Therefore, when we consider that the "Nanking Incident" was linked to the rumors circulating among foreigners that slandered the Japanese Army for arresting and disposing of these troops after the fall of Nanking, Tang bears a huge responsibility to Japan for that.

TOPIC 11 - (5.) The "Nanking Massacre" even reached the Ministry of Foreign Affairs at that time as intelligence from foreigners in a telegram to Foreign Minister Koki Hirota, but that was nothing more than hearsay. The sender was the consulate in Shanghai reporting on the activities of KMT agent Harold Timperley. At the Tokyo War Crimes Trials they followed the precedent of the Nanking War Crimes Tribunal's faked evidence, but that was the first time Japan or the world had heard of anything like it so after the verdict the documents ended up disappearing. In the early 1970's a campaign which started under the leadership of the Asahi Shimbun spread the term "Nanking Massacre" and turned the "textbook controversy" into an opportunity for China. It was only after this that China recruited "survivors" from the residents of Nanking and that Nanking Massacre Memorial Hall was completed with the support of some Japanese.

TOPIC 12 - Regarding this case, it's common knowledge that this story started with the fictitious news articles of Tokyo Nichi Nichi Shimbun journalist Kazuo Asami which were published on November 30 and on December 4, 6, and 13 of 1937. Reprints of these articles in the Japan Advertiser and the China Weekly Review caught the attention of Harold Timperley and, unluckily for the two lieutenants, were taken up in the aforementioned book "What War Means".

The Nanking War Crimes Tribunal used this to execute the lieutenants as symbols of Japanese brutality, but at the Tokyo War Crimes Trials the prosecution didn't present this case to the court even though it had been prepared as evidence. Even Katsuichi Honda, who re-introduced the Japanese people to this case in "Travels in China", now has done a highly irresponsible flip-flop and says that the killing contest was the murder of non-resistant POWs and refugees. He probably came up with that in order to sidestep the counterargument that both lieutenants were in no position to engage in close combat, that they didn't reach the city of Nanking, and that a katana isn't capable of cutting off the heads of scores of people in the heat of combat.

TOPIC 13 - Iris Chang's ignorance of historical facts goes without saying, but what she presents as sources are just the evidence used by the prosecution at the Tokyo Trials and Nanking Tribunal, including Chinese testimonies and records of the gossip and rumors of foreigners resident in Nanking, plus new Chinese accounts which have started to appear since the 1980's.

Moreover, by comparing these with the originals we know that even these were exaggerated many times, so pointing out her falsifications is easy. We could thus say that

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the book is a complete forgery.

TOPIC 14 - Rabe's diary is a valuable source for knowing what kinds of rumors were being circulated in Nanking at that time. I don't think that he was writing lies.

However, he lacked the ability to discern whether or not what he saw and what he heard reflected the truth. Perhaps we should call him naive, as he was constantly getting taken advantage of by American missionaries and he was so simpleminded that he mistook all the criminals who would run from him in fear of exposure for Japanese soldiers bolting at the authority of Hitler, Germany, and the swastika. If you read Rabe's diary carefully, you realize that it's a material that denies the so-called "Nanking Massacre".

TOPIC 15 - Historical consciousness is what each individual should have after understanding the facts of history, so we should describe the Battle of Nanking as a fact. The so-called "Nanking Incident" is simply an illusion springing from the executions of plainclothes troops, including those trying to flee, as well as the rumors spread by KMT agents plotting to sow disorder behind the lines. Foreigners in Nanking then depicted these things via their own blinkered view of reality.

TOPIC 16 - Like I've already stated, the "Nanking Incident" was born at the post-war Nanking Tribunal and Tokyo Trials, which used propaganda produced through cooperation with Chinese agent Harold Timperley and with certain foreigners, mostly missionaries residing in Nanking whose own interests coincided with those of China under the belief that "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." Therefore, because this question presupposes that there was a "Nanking Incident", there is no way that I can answer it.

The closing argument delivered by defense lawyer Floyd Mattice at the Tokyo Trials on April 9 1948 attests to all this. "The Chinese people are born propagandists... Their anti-Japanese propaganda... was most ingenious in method of execution. Moreover, since at the outset of the execution of the anti-Japanese propaganda work, it had been directed by some Americans and Britishers connected with American and English churches, schools, hospitals, etc., in China. They quickly managed to spread all over the world, their grossly exaggerated, malicious propaganda, about the inauspicious event that occurred at Nanking."

TOPIC 17 - The meaning of "in the past" is vague here, but, leaving aside the period up to 1995 when I knew hardly anything about the Nanking Incident, my views have not changed since I published my book "Grave Doubts About The 'Nanking Massacre'(「南京虐殺」への大疑問)" in December 1998, even if they have been reinforced as the points of view I mostly acquired by looking carefully into contemporary foreign and Chinese actors have proven to be as I wrote before.

Informative books for finding out the truth about the Nanking Incident include "The New Illusion of the Nanking Massacre(新「南京大虐殺」のまぼろし)" by Akira Suzuki, "Research on Chang's 'The Rape of Nanking'(「ザ・レイプ・オブ・南京」の研究)" by Nobukatsu Fujioka and Shudo Higashinakano, "This Is What Really Happened In Nanking(本当はこうだった南京事件)" by Yoshiaki Itakura, my own work "Grave Doubts About The 'Nanking Massacre'(「南京虐殺」への大疑問)", and the diary of Minnie Vautrin. Vautrin's diary is not proof of a massacre, but rather, if we read between the lines, we can learn the truth about the rumors existing in Nanking at that time. The book is useful just for the fact that she didn't see corpses or atrocities by the Japanese even when she came to the Nanking Safety Zone

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and the fact that Nanking was calm between December 13 and December 14 with so sign of a massacre.

However, it is also possible that readers will be unable to understand that, so, in the case, I want to recommend "A Summary of the Nanking Incident: Fifteen Grounds for Denying the Massacre(南京事件の総括虐殺否定十五の論拠)" by Masaaki Tanaka.


        NOBUKATSU FUJIOKA - Professor at Tokyo University

TOPIC 1 - (12.)

TOPIC 2 - (3.)

TOPIC 3 - (2.)

TOPIC 4 - (4.)

TOPIC 5 - A massacre is the killing of ordinary, noncombatant civilians without provocation and the killing of POWs illegally and in contravention of the international laws of war.

TOPIC 6 - (2.)

TOPIC 7 - no answer

TOPIC 8 - no answer

TOPIC 9 - There are signs that General Matsui was duped by planted information saying that Japanese soldiers had caused a massive scandal in Nanking. In this regard he bears a responsibility to future generations.

TOPIC 10 - Like Chinese textbooks used to say, the "Nanking Incident" was caused by Tang Shengzhi's flight from Nanking. Tang is most responsible for it.

TOPIC 11 - (3.)

TOPIC 12 - It can't possibly be factual.

TOPIC 13 - Iris Chang's book is a spurious tome of anti-Japanese propaganda.

TOPIC 14 - Rabe's diary is, contrary to its own intentions, a source that gives a complete picture of the "Nanking Incident".

TOPIC 15 - If we mention it in textbooks, it would be appropriate to treat it as a piece of propaganda connected to things like the Tokyo War Crimes Trials.

TOPIC 16 - Virtually nothing the Japanese Army did in Nanking went too far.

TOPIC 17 - I was able to get the big picture on the incident by coming across the book "A Full Investigation of the 'Nanking Massacre'(南京虐殺」の徹底検証)" by Shudo Higashinakano, and my views underwent a major change. The incident as a whole is material for research on propaganda and for more on this, see the book I co-authored with Shudo Higashinakano, "Research on Chang's 'The Rape of Nanking'(「ザ・レイプ・オブ・南京」の研究)".


        TAKESHI HARA - Former head researcher at the War History Department of the National Institute for Defense Studies

TOPIC 1 - (9.) Around 20,000 POWs and plainclothes troops were

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illegally killed, as well as several thousand civilians.

TOPIC 2 - (4.) The POWs and plainclothes troops who were freely disposed of by Japanese front line troops, as well as the ordinary civilians who were sporadically murdered outside of combat, either individually or in small groups.

TOPIC 3 - (2.)

TOPIC 4 - (2.)

TOPIC 5 - Illegal killings that violated the laws of war.

It is illegal for front line units to execute POWs or plainclothes troops without the procedure of a military tribunal or court martial.

If the plainclothes troops were not regarded as POWs, then they should have been tried as such by the army and punished.

TOPIC 6 - (2.)

TOPIC 7 - no answer

TOPIC 8 - "In times of war serious crimes should be tried in military tribunals or in courts established at the discretion of the belligerents. Having said that, we must acknowledge that punishing crimes without any hearing is forbidden under current international law and customs."(Source=Sakutaro Tachi, 戦時国際法論[Discourse on the International Laws of War], published by Nippon Hyoronsha in 1938, p.49)

I don't think that the foreigners and others who saw the disposal of POWs wrote explicitly that these were violations of international law because they viewed them as legal executions with trials and didn't know that this was not the case. Because the mass executions were mainly carried out at night on the banks of the Yangtze River, I believe that very few people witnessed them.

TOPIC 9 - Matsui paid little attention to POWs and bears a big responsibility for not setting out a clear policy for the treatment of prisoners.

Even though it was called the China "Incident" rather than the Sino-Japanese War, it's obvious that when fighting occurs prisoners will be taken. Not stating a policy on how to handle surrendered soldiers was irresponsible and a huge mistake for both the heads of the Japanese Army and the military commanders.

TOPIC 10 - It was completely irresponsible for him to escape Nanking without taking any steps to protect its citizens. If he had stayed in Nanking and surrendered in an orderly manner, then the incident probably would not have occurred.

TOPIC 11 - (3.)

TOPIC 12 - Some people may have actually been killed, but the 100-Man Killing Contest was just empty boasting. Mukai and Noda's desires to be famous corresponded with those of the reporter Kazuo Asami who wanted to publish a tale of valor and to raise the army's morale. What was produced was an exaggerated propaganda article barely connected with the facts.

TOPIC 13 - Iris Chang's "The Rape of Nanking" is a publicity book for the "great massacre" interpretation and hence does not have any factual value.

TOPIC 14 - Rabe wrote about the situation at that time fairly objectively. For a researcher this is a valuable document.

TOPIC 15 - I recognize that a massacre did happen, but we should clearly state in textbooks that there was no massacre of 200,000 or 300,000 people.

TOPIC 16 - The incident went well beyond a normal battle, showing that the military commanders and the leaders of both Japan and China were paying no need to international law.

TOPIC 17 - As I did research, I gradually understood the scant interest of Japan's military leadership in prisoners of war and the depth of Japan's feelings of contempt for the Chinese people.

Both China's "great massacre" theory and the Illusion School advocated by some Japanese are hollow arguments with no good evidence for either.

The books I recommend are volumes 8 and 9 of "Source Materials on the History of the Second Sino-Japanese War(日中戦争史資料)" edited by Tomio Hora, volumes 1 and 2 of "Collected Source Materials on the History of the Battle of Nanking(南京戦史資料集)" edited by Kaikosha's Battle of Nanking Committee, volumes 1 and 2 of "Collected Source Materials on the Nanking Incident(南京事件資料集)" edited and translated by the Research Committee on the Nanking Incident,

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and the diary of John Rabe.


        AKIRA NAKAMURA - Professor at Dokkyo University

TOPIC 1 - (10.) Perhaps between several thousand people and about 10,000. However, I exclude civilians as a general rule.

TOPIC 2 - (2.)+(4.) However, I don't think that it was a so-called "war of aggression". Most of the massacre victims were soldiers who had been taken prisoner.

TOPIC 3 - (2.) However, it is believed that the massacres focused especially at the time of (3.).

TOPIC 4 - (2.) However, to be precise, I am including the outlying areas bordering on the city, including Purple Mountain where there was heavy fighting directly before the Japanese Army captured Nanking.

TOPIC 5 - Definition #1=Killing through cruel methods, regardless of whether it is legal or illegal. "Cruel methods" refer to those that involve unnecessary pain. Definition #2=Illegal mass killings, regardless of whether the method of killing is cruel or not. "Illegal" means something not justified by the rights of self-defense or necessity.

TOPIC 6 - (1.)+(2.) There were both willful plainclothes troops, some organized and some not, as well as regular soldiers who switched to civilian clothes just to escape.

TOPIC 7 - It's not the case that they "infiltrate regions heavily populated by our fellow countrymen" so in this regard we can't compare them with the plainclothes troops of the Battle of Shanghai.

Together with the organized guerrillas, there were also those who were only wearing plainclothes in order to escape and didn't plan to snipe at the Japanese. A distinction must be made for those plainclothes troops who are acknowledged as snipers out of uniform as discussed under the international laws of war. Furthermore, we must not forget that being able to execute plainclothes troops on the spot is restricted to cases where they are caught in the act.

TOPIC 8 - no answer

TOPIC 9 - General Matsui gave sufficient warning to his men when they entered Nanking and surely he didn't imagine that the Imperial Army would engage in mass executions of POWs.

If there is a cause that should be attributed to General Matsui, we could perhaps cite his insistence on holding the victory parade on December 17. It is thought that each unit sped up its disposal of POWs in order to finish it in time for Matsui's entrance into the city. Here also, however, there can be no doubt that General Matsui did not anticipate this manner of cause and effect relationship.

TOPIC 10 - Tang Shengzhi, together with Chiang Kai-Shek, bears primary responsibility for the incident. Tang, while insisting on defending Nanking to the death, left his troops and the inhabitants of the city behind and fled. Since he ignored the summons to surrender from the Japanese Army he should have fought to the last, or if not that then evacuated with his units after declaring Nanking an open city.

TOPIC 11 - (2.) However, it has especially been talked about since the time of (3.).

TOPIC 12 - I don't believe that the 100-Man Killing Contest was a real event.

TOPIC 13 - Chang's absurd book was written with an anti-Japanese political agenda and it doesn't merit serious criticism. The author's ignorance of history is mind-boggling. It's a book of anti-Japanese demagoguery pure and simple and isn't even worth reading once.

TOPIC 14 - There is both a description of the truth about Nanking as well as parts where

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he writes down preposterous rumors without critically analyzing them. However, I can appreciate Rabe's attitude in that he strived to be as fair-minded as possible in recording the diary.

TOPIC 15 - Textbooks should describe the incident as large-scale executions of POWs by the Imperial Army, and they should clearly deny China's assertion that there was a planned, systematic murder of more than 300,000 citizens.

TOPIC 16 - We have to admit that there were major transgressions in the combat action.

TOPIC 17 - I have admitted that it did indeed happen, and have not altered my views to a greater degree than before. The only thing is that, in the past I called it the "Nanking Incident" and I used to avoid as much as possible the names for it that included the word "massacre". Now however, as far as the POWs are concerned, I believe that it was a "massacre". That was a conclusion that I arrived at after examining the operational and combat records of the Japanese Army and a variety of first-hand accounts with an open mind in line with the my aforementioned definitions of "massacre".

The books I recommend are "The History of the Battle of Nanking(南京戦史)" by Kaikosha's Battle of Nanking Committee and "Collected Source Materials on the Nanking Incident(南京事件資料集)" edited and translated by the Research Committee on the Nanking Incident. This latter one is a book edited by members of the Great Massacre School, but I often read things written by my own rivals. We should accept facts candidly and see through lies for what they are.


        MASAKI UNEMOTO - Researcher on military history

TOPIC 1 - (13.) There wasn't a planned or systematic massacre of law-abiding citizens or surrendered POWs, but there were individual and accidental killings. I am including here the ordinary civilians who were abducted and executed by mistake during sweeps of the refugee zone and the POWs at Mufushan who were killed while being released.

TOPIC 2 - (2.)+(3.)

TOPIC 3 - (4.) It lasted from the fall of Nanking between December 12 and 13 up to about December 20.

The core of the incident was (3.), that is to say, an incident that accompanied the Battle of Nanking, including the occupation of Nanking, the mopping-up operations against enemy stragglers within the city, and the sweeps of the refugee zone, until the victory parade.

Even though I consider that the incident, in a broad sense, lasted up to December 20 when the Japanese Army shifted its operations to policing and maintenance of public order, the number of incidents that occurred after the December 17 victory parade were few.

TOPIC 4 - (5.) From outside the walls of Nanking to the Nanking Safety Zone.

TOPIC 5 - Firstly, the illegal killing of surrendered soldiers who had been interned and had been formally recognized as POWs. Secondly, the unprovoked killing of law-abiding citizens. Thirdly, harm done in error to law-abiding citizens during sweeps of the refugee zone.

TOPIC 6 - (1.)

TOPIC 7 - It isn't necessarily true that they were sniping with their pistols, but they had concealed or were carrying weapons and ammunition and they could have become dangerous elements at any time. Immediately after the occupation they were under no one's control.

TOPIC 8 - I know of no historical documents providing convincing proof.

TOPIC 9 - General Matsui directed the conventional military strategy and as a military commander he bears no responsibility for it. If he is responsible, it would only be moral responsibility.

TOPIC 10 - General Tang Shengzhi's responsibility is great. Tang guided the strategy to defend Nanking, bungled the withdrawal operation and, forfeiting the defense of the territory, deserted the battlefield, and had rejected the peace proposal of General Matsui and the proposals of John Rabe. Due to this, he forced massive sacrifices

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upon the soldiers and the people of Nanking.

TOPIC 11 - (2.) was the start, but it has come to the fore since (4.) due to Chinese intervention.

TOPIC 12 - The 100-Man Killing Contest is not a fact.

Lieutenants Mukai and Noda may have impetuously bragged about doing a "killing contest", but there is no way that an army saber could cut off the heads of 100 people.

TOPIC 13 - Iris Chang's book has zero credibility due its bias and blatant lies, but considering that it was read in the United States it will be necessary to devise countermeasures against it.

We need to do an advertising campaign criticizing it, debunking it, and correcting the rights and wrongs.

TOPIC 14 - Rabe's accounts of refugee relief work appear accurate for the most part, but his portrayal of the Japanese Army, especially the parts about atrocities, mostly describe hearsay written down as is and cannot be trusted.

Therefore, it is not "The Truth About Nanking", as it was called in Japanese translation. One needs to verify its contents through comparison with other historical sources. However, even in Rabe's diary instances of collective or planned murders cannot be found.

TOPIC 15 - In the battle for the Chinese capital of Nanking, the defending general Tang Shengzhi embroiled the citizens of Nanking in the war and caused great harm to both civilians and his soldiers because of his insistence on defending the city. We must admit that there were excesses by some Japanese units during this operation.

TOPIC 16 - The Nanking Incident and the Holocaust were completely different.

In Nanking the Chinese had their backs to the wall with vast rivers as their only escape route and in a city with 200,000 civilians the Japanese Army had besieged them and was leading a battle of annihilation.

Consequently, at the time of the capture and occupation of Nanking, as long as the Chinese were not surrendering formally, they were attacked relentlessly which inflicted serious casualties on soldiers and civilians. In such an operation I think that it's inevitable that a few transgressions will happen.

Rabe made analogies to Genghis Khan's invasions of Europe, but that's an absurd opinion. It's clear from looking at contemporary photos that the Japanese Army fought honorably in Nanking.

TOPIC 17 - My assessment of the Nanking Incident hasn't changed a lot up to now. The Japanese Army was not an irresponsible or undisciplined force and

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the soldiers of the Japanese Army would never have raped 20,000 women or massacred 200,000 or 300,000 people before and after the Battle of Nanking. The "Nanking Massacre" was invented through the machinations of the Tokyo War Crimes Trials and the post-war fabrications and propaganda of the Chinese.

At the time of the war neither the Nationalist Government under Chiang Kai-Shek or the Chinese Communist Party under Mao Zedong left any record of the incident, nor did they bring it up at the League of Nations. It doesn't even appear in He Yingqin's military report. They recognized it as the damage of war.

I anticipated the "Truth About Nanking" from John Rabe, but I found out through careful reading of his diary that it was all rubbish. Trustworthy historical documents don't exist. Even the Japanese Army's contemporary battle reports and field journals, the most reliable sources, contain exaggerations and lies. We need to take these things with a large grain of salt. I think we ought to criticize every type of historical material using our common sense. There are even those who say that war makes normal people insane but the great majority of people are normal, so I wonder how insane men were able to undertake organized military actions in large army groups?

In the Battle of Nanking, we inflicted a lot of casualties on the enemy. People blamed those casualties on illegal massacres but real murders and wrongful acts were very limited and that is something I understand first-hand.


        HISAHIKO OKAZAKI - Advisor to Hakuhodo, Inc. and head of the Okazaki Institute

TOPIC 1 - (10.) We don't have a reliable number for plainclothes troops that could have been executed, so that means between 300 and 30,000 and I will select about 10,000.

TOPIC 2 - (2.) is probably widely accepted.

TOPIC 3 - All of these choices are fine, though (3.) comes to mind.

TOPIC 4 - As with the last topic, any of these are fine, though I am mainly thinking of (3.).

TOPIC 5 - Murder of ordinary citizens, rapes, murder of POWs, and killing of plainclothes troops without sufficient evidence. All of these categories are at this stage hard to specify in numbers.

TOPIC 6 - (1.) and (3.) on a case by case basis.

TOPIC 7 - Individuals who fit that definition likely did exist.

TOPIC 8 - There was no declaration of war so it seems unlikely in the first place that this is a case where the international laws of war apply. Whether you think of it as a situation outside of international law or whether you think of all this as a violation of international law depends on your point of view.

TOPIC 9 - He bears no legal responsibility. As leader he does have political and moral responsibility.

TOPIC 10 - Tang bears political and moral responsibility for the atrocities committed by the Chinese Army itself just before the occupation of Nanking.

TOPIC 11 - (1.) among insiders, and among the Japanese general public at the time of (2.).

TOPIC 12 - I don't know.

TOPIC 13 - Chang's book is a bizarre piece of pulp historical fiction.

TOPIC 14 - I don't know all the details about Rabe's diary, but it does appear to have meaningful value as a primary source.

TOPIC 15 - The incident was part of the war and judging from accepted standards of elementary and middle school textbooks from across the world, there is no intrinsic need to mention it. However, when the problem is subject to such loud publicity, perhaps a sort of restrained comment disapproving of that is necessary.

TOPIC 16 - It was not at all like the Holocaust. If we were to classify it, it would fall under the same category as the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the barbaric acts of Soviet soldiers in Manchuria, and the firebombings of Tokyo and Dresden, as part of the problem of civilian casualties of war. What happened in Nanking was more than just normal fighting. General Matsui said,

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"Look at what you have done!" Itaro Ishii, head of the Foreign Ministry's East Asia Bureau, said, "Alas! Is this what the Imperial Army is?" Kazuo Horiba of the General Staff's War Guidance Office said "We have brought upon ourselves a decade's worth of resentment and have damaged the prestige of the Japanese Army." In the dissent of Judge Radhabinod Pal, where he says "making every possible allowance for propaganda and exaggeration, the evidence is still overwhelming that atrocities were perpetrated by the members of the Japanese armed forces", the Nanking Incident meets the criteria of being a "major transgression".

TOPIC 17 - On the following three points I have never changed my views. (1.) Something did happen. (2.) We can't pinpoint the numbers. (3.) The figure of 200,000 massacred is ridiculous.

My sources are "Research on Chang's 'The Rape of Nanking'(「ザ・レイプ・オブ・南京」の研究)" by Nobukatsu Fujioka and Shudo Higashinakano, the records of the Tokyo War Crimes Trials, especially the judgement of Radhabinod Pal, and volume 3 of "The Tokyo Trials: Rejected or Unsubmitted Materials for the Defense(東京裁判却下未提出辯護側資料)".


        YOSHIKO SAKURAI - Journalist

TOPIC 1 - (10.)

TOPIC 2 - (2.)+(3.)

TOPIC 3 - (3.)

TOPIC 4 - (4.)

TOPIC 5 - Killing and wounding of ordinary non-soldiers that occurred at the stage where the Japanese Army was looking for the plainclothes troops who had melted among the refugees.

TOPIC 6 - (2.)

TOPIC 7 - no answer

TOPIC 8 - no answer

TOPIC 9 - General Matsui was given the death penalty at the Tokyo War Crimes Trials, but that was a mistaken decision. It is written in the book "Justice Pal's Argument For Japan's Innocence(パール博士の日本無罪論)" that General Matsui gave a detailed warning concerning the assault on Nanking so that his troops would not involve ordinary Chinese in the fighting. Furthermore, Matsui himself found out that his orders had been violated at the time that he entered Nanking and he reassigned offending units and also punished violators. Blaming General Matsui for the Nanking Incident would be the same setup as blaming a boss for things that are the responsibility of his employees. Matsui himself was a man who strenuously condemned the Nanking Incident.

TOPIC 10 - no answer

TOPIC 11 - (3.)

TOPIC 12 - I don't believe that the 100-Man Killing Contest is true.

TOPIC 13 - Chang's book has many factual errors and it's unlikely that it was written to be even-handed, but it had a very powerful influence internationally including in the United States.

TOPIC 14 - Because we don't know on what Rabe based his figure of 50,000 to 60,000 deaths, we need to consider the diary while comparing it with sources such as the contemporary news reports of New York Times reporter F. Tillman Durdin and others.

TOPIC 15 - It would be inappropriate to describe the incident in history textbooks as if it is a fact where the opinion of only one side or another has been established. If we give an account of it, we should write that, though China says that 300,000 were killed, there are no testimonies or supporting evidence or things that were recorded at the time of the incident to prove it. We should write that Japan's claims are at great variance with China's claims and that therefore it is an incident that we still have not gotten to the bottom of.

It is a fact that the Japanese Army conquered Nanking and it is also a fact that Chinese people were murdered, and we can't deny these facts themselves, but we should describe calmly that the incident itself has gotten highly politicized as material for attacking Japan. This is a problem that

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we should look at with the calmness necessary to reassess the facts from scratch.

TOPIC 16 - The Nazi Holocaust was of a completely different nature and to mention it in the same breath as the Nanking Incident is beyond reason. I think that it was a normal combat action, but crimes were committed.

TOPIC 17 - The books I recommend are "The Illusion of the Nanking Massacre(「南京大虐殺」のまぼろし)" and "The New Illusion of the Nanking Massacre(新「南京大虐殺」のまぼろし)" by Akira Suzuki, "The History of the Battle of Nanking(南京戦史)" by Kaikosha's Battle of Nanking Committee, and "Justice Pal's Argument For Japan's Innocence(パール博士の日本無罪論)" by Masaaki Tanaka plus Pal's judgement from the records of the Tokyo War Crimes Trials.


        TOSHIO TANABE - Researcher on Showa Period history

TOPIC 1 - (10.)

TOPIC 2 - (2.) However, I will reserve judgement of whether or not it was a war of aggression.

TOPIC 3 - (2.)

TOPIC 4 - (2.)

TOPIC 5 - The murder of non-resistant non-combatants, including POWs and civilians, using the standards of the " On the Qualifications of Belligerents" chapter of the Hague Convention. I think that we have no choice but to just make common sense judgements on the areas that don't fit into this definition. Looking at it from the standards of modern Western armies, I have to think that the armies of China were pre-modern and that this was also so of the Japanese Army. I would say that it was an Asian war.

TOPIC 6 - (1.)

TOPIC 7 - Obviously it wasn't the same thing. I can't explain precisely, but I think that they were basically like deserters. Their sole concern was whether or not they would survive and I might term them something like "soldiers without the will to fight". They took up arms and fought if they felt that their lives were in danger but didn't offer resistance except under extraordinary circumstances.

TOPIC 8 - no answer

TOPIC 9 - We could view the Central China Area Army as a figurehead post right from the start, and leaving aside the organizational hierarchy it is unclear what the extent of Matsui's authority to issue command orders really was. The 10th Army's independent decision to pursue the Chinese out of Shanghai was probably because its commander Heisuke Yanagawa had no intention of following instructions rather than due to the connivance of General Matsui. I think no one could have stopped it. If so the debate over responsibility becomes muddled and in the end people of higher rank have to take responsibility. Considering the above, I will make the following three points. Firstly, Matsui actively advised the central government, which wanted to keep the conflict localized, to capture Nanking in the mistaken belief that this would end the war. Secondly, he did not clearly state how POWs were to be dealt with, though surely he experienced situations that would require it at Shanghai. Thirdly, he pushed for the holding of a victory parade in Nanking by overruling objections from those who said law and order had not been restored. This was one cause of the harsh mopping-up operations.

TOPIC 10 - That Tang did absolutely nothing to protect the civilian inhabitants of Nanking was even pointed out in the diary of John Rabe, but that was probably just how the Chinese Army was at that time. It's useless to ask for what was never going to happen, but I will write the following two things that should have been done. Firstly, the defense of Nanking was hopeless, and because Tang seems to have foreseen what was going happen by defending it he should have responded to Japan's appeal to surrender on December 9. Secondly, though it seems that Tang probably hadn't intended to carry the fight to the finish, his decision on the time to withdraw (on December 12)

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was too late.

TOPIC 11 - (2.)

TOPIC 12 - I have never thought that it was a fact.

I think the fact that Noda was a battalion aide-de-camp and Mukai was a field artillery squadron leader is enough to prove their innocence, but through viewing Mukai's prison diary and the statement that both lieutenants submitted to the Nanking War Crimes Tribunal I think that this is indisputable.

TOPIC 13 - I think that it was a fraud and a highly successful work of propaganda. It doesn't deserve to be called a history book.

However, I think that the people of many nations accepted it as being a history book grounded in fact because it is based on Chinese and Japanese documents, testimonies from numerous Chinese and Japanese people, and data from neutral countries like Germany. This can also be seen through the fact that it was well-received by reviewers and the media in the United States.

I worry that in the future this book could become the basis for persecution of Japanese people. Unfortunately, I think that this would be what we ourselves have sowed. It's because for many years, whenever the Japanese Army's war crimes came up, it was Japan's mass media who gave them extensive coverage without checking their facts and even turned a blind eye when something was proven to be false. Those from the other side remained silent and didn't object. Chang just used all these Japanese-published reports.

Fraudulent witnesses appear one after another but when I saw the name of Tadokoro Kozo who testified about mass rapes I was surprised that the author even knew about this person, a soldier of the 102nd regiment who gave testimony to the Asahi Geino.

TOPIC 14 - I think that it's a first-rate document because Rabe was considered a man of good judgement and he was a citizen of a neutral nation.

The Nanking controversy over the death toll of 300,000 is a political problem and it seems unlikely that the rift will be closed through debate between researchers or the countries in question. Also, when I consider the on-going progress of Chinese propaganda within the United States, Japan is still being driven into an unfavorable position.

This may seem reckless, but one possible solution might even be to shelve research and historical document from the belligerents China and Japan and frame the Nanking controversy using information and accounts left by people from neutral nations. We could probably produce a basic standard even for the number massacred and I think that this will be easy for foreigners such as Americans to understand.

Rabe's diary provides important clues including his figure of 50,000 to 60,000 deaths, the fact that the name of the Chongshantang doesn't appear, and his letter from Paul Scharffenberg of the German embassy who said "First of all, though we call it an atrocity, we're probably just hearing one-sided stories from the Chinese." It would be a waste to not put this diary to good use.

TOPIC 15 - In textbooks, I would make the title be "The Nanking Incident" and not "The Nanking Massacre." I think it's fine to describe the fact that a massacre did occur. Concerning the number of people killed, either limit it to saying "There are a variety of opinions", or list up the main ones from 300,000 to 0.

TOPIC 16 - The Nanking Incident was not a holocaust. Nazi Germany's oppression of Jews was an issue of the liquidation of an ethnic group which was planned and was not directly connected with the war.

The Nanking Incident was not planned, but rather was an unforeseen event that broke out over the course of the Battle of Nanking. If so many Chinese troops

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hadn't have surrendered, then the situation probably would have been completely different. One can imagine that the Japanese Army was at a loss at what to do. However, we must say that there were a considerable number of excesses.

In addition, because the allegation that the "Three Alls Policy" was a holocaust is seen in places, I will go ahead and add a little on that.

China called the Japanese Army's counterinsurgency operations "the Three Alls Policy" and condemned its brutality, but a policy with that name never existed in the Japanese Army in the first place.

The "first-hand accounts" of Japanese who were interned in China as war criminals seem to have played a decisive role in backing up China's allegations. We ended up in the abnormal situation where the "Three Alls Policy" is mentioned in a majority of history textbooks.

After I inspected these "first-hand accounts" I wrote the article "Requesting The 'Three Alls Policy' Be Stricken From Textbooks(『三光作戦』の教科書削除を要求する)" in the December 1996 edition of Seiron magazine, so I hope that you will consult that.

Investigations have continued and currently we have a sufficient handle on all the data to prove the unreliability of these testimonies and of China's allegations.

TOPIC 17 - For this I looked over more than 10 books, though I was just skimming the major sources, and I also read newspaper clippings and magazines. On all the facts, what I thought before had not changed.

However, I had the following thoughts. In academia the pursuit of the truth is meaningful, but under the current state of affairs which seems like a propaganda war, I could not help but question the purpose of conventional debate.

Barring the appearance of some sort of special new evidence, I believe that the controversy within Japan in the Japanese language is just a sideshow. The main act is currently shifting to the English-speaking world.

I think that the creation of a system for sending information to the world in English is urgent, but I wonder what such a system would look like.

You say "important works", but after reading a basic introduction, I think that one should then refer to books where many primary source historical documents are published like "Collected Source Materials on the History of the Battle of Nanking(南京戦史資料集)" edited by Kaikosha's Battle of Nanking Committee.

"The New Illusion of the Nanking Massacre(新「南京大虐殺」のまぼろし)" by Akira Suzuki is worth reading once.


        AKIRA FUJIWARA - Professor emeritus at Hitotsubashi University

TOPIC 1 - (4.) The late Tomio Hora, the pioneer of Nanking Massacre studies, consistently took the standpoint that "The Chinese soldiers and civilians who died within and outside the walls of Nanking were likely no fewer than 200,000 people." I also came to support this. This was a number that also included those who died in combat, but it is certain that victims of murder vastly exceeded combat fatalities. Calculating accurately the number of dead is very difficult, and I suppose that this will require great effort in the future as well.

TOPIC 2 - (4.) The victims who were soldiers and civilians, excluding those who were killed in action. In other words, POWs, troops who were surrendering, and defeated former soldiers who were discovered by the Japanese were mostly killed illegally, and of course the civilians who were killed

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are also massacre victims.

TOPIC 3 - (2.) About this time, but it would be better to put the starting point in early December when the Battle of Nanking began. This is also linked with the question of the next topic.

TOPIC 4 - (5.) The Nanking Special Administrative District, including the walled city of Nanking and the six surrounding counties.

TOPIC 5 - See my answer to topic 2.

TOPIC 6 - (4.) They were demoralized former soldiers who had thrown away their weapons.

TOPIC 7 - no answer

TOPIC 8 - The problem is that in Japan at that time and especially in the armed forces, there was no recognition of international law violations. The servicemen and low-ranking leaders had no knowledge of international law and though the higher-ups did have knowledge of it, they had no intention of complying with it. Responsibility for the violations hence lies with the higher-ranking leaders. Concerning this subject, just look at the army's attitude towards the Hague and Geneva Conventions and the curriculum of, as well as changes in the curriculum of, the Military Staff College and military academies. Among the latest research on this, please refer to "Japan and the Outlawing of War: An Introduction to the Research(《戦争違法化と日本》研究序説)" by Iko Toshiya.

TOPIC 9 - Matsui was of course responsible. Though he was duly diligent about infringements on the rights and interests of American and British citizens, he barely worried about the murder of POWs and civilians.

TOPIC 10 - As the commanding officer, it was extremely irresponsible of Tang to abandon his command in the middle of the battle and flee.

TOPIC 11 - (1.) It was known from the start by higher-ups in the military and the foreign ministry, and through them by journalists and top politicians. There is plenty of proof of that.

TOPIC 12 - As far as the tales of derring-do in combat go, they were probably fabrications. It's believed that they beheaded non-resistant POWs.

TOPIC 13 - There are a lot of factual errors in Iris Chang's book. She was ignorant of the state of research on the massacre in Japan and there are also many problems with the photos she used. Because of this, the book became ideal ammunition for Nanking Massacre deniers. Even though it had such shortcomings, it was significant insofar as it made the graphic facts of the massacre widely known for the first time among the people of the English-speaking world. Another purpose of this book was to expose the attacks of right-wingers in Japan who seek to cover up or ignore the facts of the massacre. Here a proper introduction and critical comment are probably needed.

TOPIC 14 - The scope of what Rabe's experienced was narrow, but I give the diary due credit as a primary source. The written report left by Georg Rosen, a secretary at the German embassy who stayed in Nanking at that time, is held in the national archives of former East Germany. It is expected that this will be published in the near future and I think that comparing it with Rabe's diary will be even more interesting.

TOPIC 15 - It's disappointing that the description of the massacre in middle school history textbooks is in the process of being scaled backed for the 2002 academic year. It seems that we are now taking a greater step backwards than before. It's probably because the publishers are afraid of Nobukatsu Fujioka's "Association for Advancement of Unbiased View of History" faction. It's suspicious that they cut out figures for the number massacred like 200,000 and 300,000 even though in the past it had been written in.

TOPIC 16 - The Holocaust was different. It was a national policy from the start and was the wiping out of a specific ethnic group. The Japanese Army's random killings of Chinese civilians and raping of women was due to the negligence of commanders and the troops' lack of discipline.

TOPIC 17 - My views have not changed much. In 1984

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I participated in the founding of the Research Committee on the Nanking Incident and in 1985 I published the book "The Nanking Massacre(南京大虐殺)", and basically there has been no change in my viewpoint since then. Within the war of aggression against China, this was the most iconic and the largest-scale war crime.

The books that I recommend are "The Nanking Incident(南京事件)" and "The Nanking Incident and the Three Alls Policy(南京事件と三光作戦)" by Tokushi Kasahara, and the diary of Minnie Vautrin with commentary by Tokushi Kasahara.


        KEIICHI EGUCHI - Professor at Aichi University

TOPIC 1 - Between (5.) and (6.)

TOPIC 2 - (2.)

TOPIC 3 - (1.)

TOPIC 4 - I lean towards (1.).

TOPIC 5 - Excluding normal combat casualties, it was the murder of civilians, the murder or execution of former soldiers without weapons, such as POWs and troops who were surrendering, and the murder or execution of stragglers without weapons or the will to fight undertaken without giving them any opportunity to surrender or to receive a trial.

TOPIC 6 - (4.) They were basically stragglers without weapons or the will to fight.

TOPIC 7 - no answer

TOPIC 8 - no answer

TOPIC 9 - It is thought that the most important cause of the incident lay in General Matsui's deviating from central command's restraint and unreasonably forcing a rapid advance on Nanking. His responsibility for that was great.

TOPIC 10 - Characterized by disorganized leadership and scorched earth policies, Tang's strategy was extremely inept. He can't escape a portion of the blame for the incident.

TOPIC 11 - (1.) at the level of vague rumors. If you mean for its full extent, I would answer (2.).

TOPIC 12 - The media reports were probably a fabrication, but I think there were many real facts similar to the 100-Man Killing Contest.

TOPIC 13 - Chang's book is full of basic errors and mistaken assumptions. I can't call it a work of scholarly research.

TOPIC 14 - I have a high opinion of Rabe's diary as an on-the-spot, real-time record of the incident.

TOPIC 15 - We absolutely must deal with the incident in textbooks but we shouldn't unquestioningly accept the claims of the Chinese government.

By the way, in the high school textbook that I wrote, "Japanese History B(日本史B)", I described the incident like this: "Japan committed a vast force and in December occupied Nanking, the capital of Nationalist China. At this time the Japanese Army killed many Chinese people, including POWs and surrendered troops, and engaged in looting, arson, and rapes. This was criticized internationally as the Nanking Massacre. It is estimated that the number of dead, including combatants, reached at least 100,000 in the several weeks before and after the occupation."

TOPIC 16 - It wasn't a pre-planned incident like the Holocaust, but rather was an event that broke out in conjunction with the occupation of Nanking. However, it obviously went well beyond a normal act of war.

TOPIC 17 - The Chinese figure of 300,000 deaths is excessive, but I think that the truth of this grisly atrocity has been revealed in considerable detail through numerous testimonies and documents.

The books that I recommend are "Soldiers Of The Imperial Army Who Recorded The Nanking Massacre: Field Diaries from the Men of the 13th Division's Yamada Detachment(南京大虐殺を記録した皇軍兵士たち - 第十三師団山田支隊兵士の陣中日記)" edited by Kenji Ono and Katsuichi Honda,

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and the diaries of Minnie Vautrin and John Rabe.


        HISASHI INOUE - Professor at Surugadai University

TOPIC 1 - (13.) At least more than 100,000.

TOPIC 2 - (2.) Moreover, I recognize that "it was the epitome of a war of aggression", not "it may have been a war of aggression".

TOPIC 3 - (4.) From early December to March of 1938.

TOPIC 4 - (5.) The administrative district of the Nanking city government at that time, including the walled city of Nanking and Xiaguan as well as the suburbs, Pukou, Xiaolingwei, Swallow Rock, Shangxin River, and Lingyuan, plus the six surrounding counties Jiangning, Lishui, Jurong, Jiangpu, Luhe, and Gaochun.

TOPIC 5 - The killing of POWs and the killing of ordinary civilians and farmers including women.

TOPIC 6 - (4.) The distinction between plainclothes troops and regular soldiers is meaningless. Because they had lost the will to fight, had thrown away their weapons, and had sought refuge in the Nanking Safety Zone, they should have been treated as POWs either way. Needless to say it's not alright to murder them without even a military trial.

TOPIC 7 - The real situation in Nanking after its capture was that armed resistance by plainclothes troops was virtually nonexistent.

TOPIC 8 - In a report addressed to the German Foreign Ministry on January 12 1938 Georg Rosen, a German diplomat in Nanking, states the following concerning the fact that the Japanese Army had picked out Chinese soldiers from the Nanking Safety Zone and killed them.

"There was no sign that any sort of military trials at all, or even procedures resembling them, were undertaken. From the start this process did not seem befitting of the ways of the Japanese Army which was making a mockery of every imaginable convention of the laws of war and even of human decency."

Killing POWs without military trials was viewed as a problem even by a diplomat from Germany, which was an ally of Japan.

TOPIC 9 - no answer

TOPIC 10 - He was too late in issuing the order to withdraw. Whether he had retreated on December 11, when the defense of Nanking had become for all intents and purposes impossible, or on December 12, in the end he should have negotiated to recognize the entry of the Japanese into Nanking without bloodshed.

TOPIC 11 - (2.) among the general public, but the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Tokyo knew about it from the time it happened.

TOPIC 12 - no answer

TOPIC 13 - I can understand the way that the author, Iris Chang, felt. She says that as a Chinese-American she was shocked to learn about the massacre and wrote up her book very quickly. However, it has a lot of factual errors and there are also problems with her use of photographs and I can't support it as a history book.

TOPIC 14 - I praise it as an important source of history, but because even Rabe wasn't able to gauge the whole situation in Nanking at that time, I think that the work of comparing it with other historical documents is indispensable.

TOPIC 15 - In our textbooks it should be written about in more detail. Obviously I can't allow the Nanking Incident to disappear from our textbooks through minimization of the description.

TOPIC 16 - I can't regard the Holocaust and the Nanking Massacre in the same light. It's a fact that there was a horrible massacre, but it wasn't that the Japanese Army occupied Nanking in order to commit a massacre, but rather my understanding is that the massacre ended up happening as a result of the occupation.

TOPIC 17 - As I investigated the Nanking Incident

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I began to feel a compassion for those who were killed and harmed in Nanking that went deeper than just a discussion of the scale of the massacre.

The books I recommend are "Thirteen Lies of the Deniers of the Nanking Massacre(南京大虐殺否定論13のウソ)" by the Research Committee on the Nanking Incident, "The Nanking Massacre(南京大屠殺)" by Sun Zhaiwei, "Research on the Japanese Army's War Crimes(日本軍戦争暴行之研究)" by Lee Enhan, my article "Photographs as a Source for the Study of History - The Case of the Nanking Incident(歴史学における写真史料 - 南京事件の場合)" in the October 2000 edition of Rekishi Hyoron, and "Sources on the Central China Pacification Operations(華中宣撫工作資料)" which I edited.


        MITSUYOSHI HIMETA - Professor at Chuo University

TOPIC 1 - (5.)

TOPIC 2 - (1.)

TOPIC 3 - (2.)

TOPIC 4 - (2.)

TOPIC 5 - Killing of non-combatants such as women, the elderly, and farmers working the fields, of disarmed POWs, and of stragglers including officials without the desire to fight or resist.

TOPIC 6 - (4.) Plainclothes troops who were actually resistant were few in number. Almost all of them were stragglers who changed into "plainclothes" to escape.

TOPIC 7 - no answer

TOPIC 8 - I am relying on the writings of Tomio Hora, Akira Fujiwara, and Yutaka Yoshida. I haven't researched this as a specialist.

TOPIC 9 - I think he has what we now call supervisory responsibility. However, if we say this then the responsibility of higher-ranking individuals, including the emperor, is also inescapable.

TOPIC 10 - He bears a great responsibility for having forsaken an organized resistance and retreat. However, if we say this then the greatest responsibility rests with Chiang Kai-Shek, who should have been held to account for his ambiguous orders, wavering between defending Nanking to the death and retreating.

TOPIC 11 - (2.) Timperley's work, with a preface by Guo Moruo, was the earliest one both in China and internationally, but it seems that he reported on it as individual atrocities and not as an incident called the "Nanking Massacre".

TOPIC 12 - It was symbolic and not a matter of the number. The Japanese Army did use public executions to serve as an example to others.

TOPIC 13 - I haven't read the original text of Iris Chang's book, but as far as I have learned from the works of Tokushi Kasahara we weren't able to have an objective and scientific debate on it and it served only to foment a fanatic atmosphere abroad, such as extreme nationalism among Chinese, and to increase the power of Japanese denialists.

TOPIC 14 - Rabe's diary can be trusted because at that time no one had a broader and more direct experience with the so-called "refugees" than Rabe.

TOPIC 15 - It should be described as an incident that occurred in the midst of a war of aggression and which was symbolic of it.

TOPIC 16 - It went beyond a normal act of war, but I think that it is the Three Alls Policy that we ought to compare with the Holocaust.

TOPIC 17 - There has been basically no change, but I am fed up with the issue of arguing over the numbers. It's not productive. Relying on the Tokyo War Crimes Trials, I think that we should consider it roughly 100,000 victims and describe it as such. Probably what is more serious is how to think about and respond to China's remarks that 35 million Chinese died during the whole Second Sino-Japanese War.

I am aware that people say that the numbers China is giving are nonsense, but we should bear in mind that

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China is even now conducting victim surveys at the provincial level. The fact seems to be that, since the perpetrators have suppressed and hidden records and memoirs, we have no choice but to attach a great deal of importance to testimonies connected to Chinese victims.

Be that as it may, we Japanese who are kind of heart and abhor violence think that Japan ought to discuss the way our new relationship with China should be soon after we have admitted the facts of the past and apologized.


        TOKUSHI KASAHARA - Professor at Tsuru University

TOPIC 1 - What we can guess from the current state of the research and data is between more than 100,000 people and about 200,000, and there is a possibility that this number will continue to increase based on future discoveries and disclosures of data and the future course of research.

TOPIC 2 - (2.) However, even the government of Japan officially recognizes it as a war of aggression so this question should be "Although it was a war of aggression".

TOPIC 3 - (4.) It lasted from about December 4 1937 when the Central China Area Army embarked on the Nanking Campaign up to March 28 1938 when the Reformed Government of the Republic of China was established in Nanking.

TOPIC 4 - (5.) The whole area of the Nanking Special Administrative District which had united the area of Nanking city with the six surrounding counties. That was the theater of operations of the Battle of Nanking and was the region occupied by the Japanese Army following the fall of Nanking.

TOPIC 5 - Firstly, the individual murder or mass slaying of POWs, injured soldiers, and soldiers who were surrendering, as prohibited under the Hague Convention which was the international law of war, and of straggling soldiers, the people who had thrown away their weapons and given up the fight. Also, the young men who were thought to be former soldiers and killed while the Japanese Army was hunting for Chinese stragglers are civilians who became victims of the Japanese Army's battle of annihilation and its mopping-up operations, as well as civilians who were stabbed or gunned down through the whim of Japanese soldiers and the killing civilians who were non-combatants like these. Incidents of rape and gang rape by Japanese soldiers were widespread during the Nanking Incident and because rape was a crime indictable on complaint many women were murdered afterwards, especially in outlying rural areas, in order to suppress the evidence and not get charged by the military police.

Such rape murders are of course also equivalent to acts of massacre.

TOPIC 6 - (4.) The term plainclothes troops refers to soldiers who openly carry weapons and have the will to fight. The Chinese soldiers who ran into the Nanking Safety Zone were the remnants of a defeated army who had already given up the fight and, fearing that they would be deemed soldiers and be killed, as the Japanese Army had murdered Chinese POWs and troops who were surrendering, they tried to survive by taking off their uniforms, throwing away their weapons, and changing into the clothes of civilians. They were clearly not the same thing as plainclothes troops.

The International Committee for the Nanking Safety Zone also admitted former Chinese soldiers into the Safety Zone as refugees after having disarmed them.

TOPIC 7 - no answer

TOPIC 8 - What this question is basically asking is, did members of the Central China Area Army, who were "those involved in" the Nanking Incident, write up any primary source materials at the time and place of the incident clearly stating that "the Japanese Army's executions of Chinese POWs are violations of international law". This question was designed to get a "no" answer. Verbal instructions were being issued from the headquarters of the Central China Area Army and the Shanghai Expeditionary Force saying "You should kill all POWs" and "Execute the POWs",

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so if someone had criticized or had opposed this as a "violation of international law", then they would have been guilty of disobeying an order under the army's penal code, and if someone had recorded or declared this, then they would have been guilty of bringing contempt upon the army.

Hence, common sense should dictate that this would not happen. I think that this topic in good form should have been, "Please present a primary source demonstrating that the actions undertaken by the Japanese Army violated the article banning the killing of POWs as stipulated in 'On means of injuring the Enemy' in the Hague Convention, which was the international law of war at that time and was signed by Japan in February of 1912."

In that case, I could probably present more primary sources than I have time to list.

Even if I can't exactly say that they were "involved in" the Nanking Incident, I will go ahead and put forward two case studies of historical sources left by foreigners who were in Nanking at the time and had witnessed the incident. They are historical sources that explicitly state that the Japanese Army was killing in breach of international laws which stipulate that the procedure of a military tribunal is necessary for the execution of "plainclothes troops".

Firstly, there is the written report of Georg Rosen, a secretary at the Nanking branch of the German embassy, which was addressed to the German Foreign Ministry on January 12 1938 and was provided to me by Yuji Ishida from the archives of the Federal Republic of Germany. Concerning the fact that the Japanese Army was hauling off and killing stragglers who had cast off their uniforms and weapons and sought refuge in the Nanking Safety Zone, it says "There was no sign that any sort of military trials at all, or even procedures resembling them, were undertaken. From the start this process did not seem befitting of the ways of the Japanese Army which was making a mockery of every imaginable convention of the laws of war and even of human decency."

Secondly, there is the article "Tells Heroism of Yankees in Nanking" published on December 18 1937 by Archibald Steele of the Chicago Daily News, which can be found in "Collected Source Materials on the Nanking Incident Volume 1: Source Materials from the United States(南京事件資料集 アメリカ関係資料編)" edited and translated by the Research Committee on the Nanking Incident. "Patrols of Japanese soldiers moved through the streets, searched houses and arrested droves of people as suspected plainclothes soldiers. Few of them ever came back but those who did said their companions had been slaughtered without even a summary trial."

Also "The Nanking Incident That I Saw(私の見た南京事件)" by Masatake Okumiya explicitly states that the executions of Chinese by the Japanese Army, which the author himself witnessed, were violations of international law.

TOPIC 9 - As I wrote in my book "The Nanking Incident(南京事件)", that the General Staff Office relieved Iwane Matsui from his post as commander of the Central China Area Army and recalled him was a personnel shake-up as an internal measure after learning about the occurrence of the Nanking Incident which was due to Matsui's negligence. The view that General Matsui was a scapegoat for the Nanking Incident can be seen to have already existed from the time of the massacre in a political report of the Germany embassy in Tokyo, addressed to the German Foreign Ministry on March 3 1938, which reads "It isn't certain whether or not a scapegoat for the Nanking Massacre has been found with the recall of Matsui."

As commander of the Central China Area Army General Matsui can't escape responsibility for his own negligence, but it is true that Matsui alone was made into a scapegoat at the Tokyo War Crimes Trials. They should have interrogated and investigated a larger number of commanders who were connected with the Nanking Incident, including even Prince Asaka, the Lieutenant General in charge of the Shanghai Expeditionary Force, and then after revealing the whole story of the incident, trials recognizing all those responsible were needed.

TOPIC 10 - As I explained in detail in my essay "The Nanking Defense Force and the Chinese Army(南京防衛軍と中国軍)",

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published in "Research on the Nanking Massacre(南京大虐殺の研究)", Tang lacked the experience and competence to be commander of the defense of Nanking, failed to even supervise the Chinese Army's evacuation plan, and left behind a massive number of stragglers, POWs, and surrendering troops. He is responsible for increasing the number of massacre victims because he made no measures to protect the safety of the lives of citizens and refugees. However, a fundamental premise in understanding the Nanking Incident is that the greatest responsibility for it falls upon the Japanese Army which invaded Nanking and committed the massacre.

TOPIC 11 - (5.) It is thought that in Japan people have started to use the term "Nanking Massacre" since the Tokyo War Crimes Trials, but that doesn't therefore mean that the massacre was made up at the Tokyo Trials.

As per the case studies introduced by Yutaka Yoshida in his essay "Is Is True That No One Knew About The Nanking Incident?(本当に誰もが南京事件のことを知らなかったのだろうか)", published in "Thirteen Lies of the Deniers of the Nanking Massacre(南京大虐殺否定論13のウソ)" the ruling circles of the army and government and Japanese diplomats who had access to foreign news knew from the time the war was on-going that there had been a massacre of considerable scale in Nanking. It has been confirmed that Lieutenant-General Yasuji Okamura said in July 1938, "At the time of the capture of Nanking, there was mass violence, including looting and rapes, targeting tens of thousands of civilians."

I believe that the "Great Tokyo Air Raid" is also a term that started to come into use in the post-war era, but nevertheless no one says that the raid was made up after the war. The historical fact of an incident exists first, but it does happen that the name gets attached and also gets modified at a later date.

TOPIC 12 - As is explained in detail in Katsuichi Honda's essay "Testing Out a Sword On Corpses and POWs Was a Daily Occurrence(据えもの斬りや捕虜虐殺は日常茶飯事だった)", published in "Thirteen Lies of the Deniers of the Nanking Massacre(南京大虐殺否定論13のウソ)", it was an everyday occurrence in many units for army officers to make defenseless Chinese POWs or civilians squat down and to lop off their heads with a katana as a way of showing off their skill to the troops under their command. It is thought that the "100-Man Killing Contest" of the two lieutenants was also a story based off facts like these.

As is written in "The Illusion of the Nanking Massacre(「南京大虐殺」のまぼろし)" by Akira Suzuki, the women who read newspaper articles about the "100-Man Killing Contest" were smitten with the "Brave Warriors of Nanking", sent them care packages, and after married them. From this we shall also be able to learn about the way women thought at that time when the participants in the contest were viewed as heroes.

TOPIC 13 - As I argued in my essay "The Nanking Massacre and Historical Research(南京大虐殺と歴史研究)", published in "The Japanese Army In Asia(アジアの中の日本軍)" the so-called "Nanking Massacre controversy" that unfolded between the first half of the 1970's and the latter half of the 1980's had already reached its conclusion academically with the total defeat of those who denied the massacre. The moment that Iris Chang's "The Rape of Nanking" was published in the United States in 1997 the denialists lunged at it, despite that a translation had not been published in Japan and the public at large hadn't had an opportunity to read it. The Nanking Massacre deniers, who had lost face and been defeated within Japan, took advantage of the book to plot the revival of their influence, playing up and criticizing its flaws and deliberately making propaganda portraying it as being representative of the works of the "Great Massacre School".

At the same time, however, the campaign of attacks on Iris Chang and criticism of her launched by Japanese denialists only enhanced Chang's image in the United States for "fighting the Japanese right-wing"

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and had the effect of bolstering her impact and reputation there.

TOPIC 14 - The diary is a contemporary record from the man who was leader of the International Committee for the Nanking Safety Zone and after taking into account its regional limits, insofar as it centers around the refugee zone, it is a valuable primary source on the Nanking Incident. The other members of the International Committee who stayed in Nanking at that time and directly or indirectly witnessed the incident also left many diaries, letters, and documents, and these have been printed in "Collected Source Materials on the Second Sino-Japanese War and Nanking Massacre Volume 2: English-Language Sources(日中戦争南京大残虐事件資料集 第2巻英文資料編)" edited by Tomio Hora, "Collected Source Materials on the Nanking Incident Volume 1: Source Materials from the United States(南京事件資料集 アメリカ関係資料編)" edited and translated by the Research Committee on the Nanking Incident, and the Japanese edition of the diary of Minnie Vautrin. Also, the official papers sent to Germany by German diplomats who were stationed in Nanking during the second phase of the incident are in the forthcoming collection "The Nanking Incident Seen By German Diplomats: Source Materials(資料ドイツ外交官の見た南京事件)". The reliability of the contents of Rabe's diary has been proven through viewing it side-by-side with the accounts of these foreigners residing in Nanking.

The only issue is that "The Good Man of Nanking" is a book edited by Erwin Wickert, and, for a precise documentary record, it is to be hoped that someone will translate and publish the entire diary without alteration including also the photographs and documents that were inserted into the original.

TOPIC 15 - Because the number of pages is tightly restricted in Japanese history textbooks their overview of our history from ancient to modern times is recounted in the style of a fairly detailed chronology and nothing more. In a proper history textbook, we need concrete descriptions, like is the case in the history textbooks of many foreign countries, so that students can form a mental picture of historical events. For the Nanking Incident as well, we shouldn't just end the description of it with a few lines like in current Japanese history textbooks, but rather we should record it concretely including the incident's cause, its progression and the details of that, and also the effect it had on China and the world.

And not just the text of the book, it also seems to me that we let the students discuss the incident as course work and discussion questions at the end of the chapter through comparing things like the areas where the Chinese, the victims, and the Japanese, the victimizers, disagree regarding our memory and recognition of the Nanking Incident. Our students are our future, and this will be necessary so that they will be able eventually to dialogue about it with young Chinese.

TOPIC 16 - As I wrote in my book "The Nanking Incident and the Three Alls Policy(南京事件と三光作戦)" the Japanese Army's "Three Alls Policy" is more suitable for making comparisons with the Holocaust. Like I made clear in my book "The Nanking Incident(南京事件)", the Nanking Incident happened through a combination of unintended factors including the forcing of a march on Nanking which had no place in the strategic preparations, the lax discipline and exhaustion of the Japanese soldiers due the army's policy of maintaining the momentum of its advance, and the arbitrary decision-making of field commanders and their errors in strategy and leadership.

On the other hand, the "Three Alls Policy" was slaughter implemented as a counterinsurgency strategy which aimed at the annihilation (in other words the massacre and genocide) of soldiers and civilians within pacified areas and areas controlled by guerrillas, all under the authority of the official strategy of the Japanese Army. The total number of victims was also far greater.

Even the General Staff at that time recognized that what happened in Nanking overstepped the bounds of a normal act of war and it was precisely for that reason that they recalled General Iwane Matsui, the commander of the Central China Area Army, and that Lieutenant-General Yasuji Okamura,

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who was appointed commander of the 11th Army in June 1938, confirmed that "At the time of the capture of Nanking, there was mass violence, including looting and rapes, targeting tens of thousands of civilians." As noted in "The Emperor's Army and the Nanking Incident(天皇の軍隊と南京事件)" by Yutaka Yoshida, in October 1938 at the time that the Japanese Army occupied Wuhan the Chief of Staff of the Central China Expeditionary Army strived to prevent the outbreak of a "Wuhan Massacre" by formally warning that "We must resolve that there be no manner of unlawful acts, especially looting, arson, or rape" and enforcing this.

TOPIC 17 - Reflecting globalization, discussions about the Nanking Incident in international conferences in China and the United States and also opportunities to discuss it with Western historians and social scientists are becoming frequent. More than ever before, I am strengthening my appreciation for "the Nanking Incident within world history". As we enter the 21st century the view of world history as the history of mankind, which we comprehend through global consensus, is becoming generalized. A trend is emerging in Western academia and journalism, including in the United States, Germany, and England, of attempting to research the Nanking Incident from the perspective of the comparative history of atrocities, comparing it, as one of the great massacres of 20th century world history, to the Armenian Genocide, the Holocaust, the Khmer Rouge regime in Cambodia, and the recent massacres in Rwanda and former Yugoslavia. Within this field, comparative studies of massacre denialism are also starting to appear which examine and contrast the so-called "deniers of memory" who negate the existence of Auschwitz, the Nanking Incident, or the Armenian massacres.

Thus, the logic and the campaigns of Japan's Nanking Massacre deniers, the role and responsibility of the media who support them, and the mental state and perception of history of those Japanese who want to accept denialist ideas are all becoming subjects for researchers of foreign countries.

Important works that should be consulted in contemplating the Nanking Incident are "The Japanese Army in Nanking - The Nanking Massacre and its Context(南京の日本軍 - 南京大虐殺とその背景)" by Akira Fujiwara, "Collected Works of Katsuichi Honda 23 - The Nanking Massacre(本多勝一集23 - 南京大虐殺)" by Katsuichi Honda, "The Emperor's Army and the Nanking Incident(天皇の軍隊と南京事件)" by Yutaka Yoshida, "Thirteen Lies of the Deniers of the Nanking Massacre(南京大虐殺否定論13のウソ)" by the Research Committee on the Nanking Incident, and my own work "One Hundred Days in the Nanking Safety Zone - The Foreigners Who Saw The Massacre(南京難民区の百日 - 虐殺を見た外国人)".


        RYUJI TAKASAKI - Critic

TOPIC 1 - (4.)

TOPIC 2 - (4.) Although the second choice says "it may have been a war of aggression", I understand that it was a war of aggression. However, I do think that we should not include soldiers killed in "normal combat situations" in the number of massacre victims.

TOPIC 3 - (1.)

TOPIC 4 - (1.)

TOPIC 5 - The killing of POWs who had surrendered and of non-resistant civilians.

TOPIC 6 - (2.)

TOPIC 7 - no answer

TOPIC 8 - no answer

TOPIC 9 - As the man at the top, he was responsible, but it wasn't about General Matsui. Given the nature of the Japanese Army, I think the Nanking Massacre was unavoidable no matter who was in charge.

TOPIC 10 - As the officer in charge I think that Tang Shengzhi should at least have ordered the ordinary citizens of the Nanking Special Administrative District to evacuate.

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TOPIC 11 - (2.)

TOPIC 12 - I don't believe that everything that was reported was fact. However, I presume that similar deeds did happen.

TOPIC 13 - There are parts of Chang's book which I feel were exaggerated. However, I can support it as a "literary truth".

TOPIC 14 - I basically support it, though it seems that there are very many parts based on hearsay. Rabe puts the number of massacre victims in Nanking at about 50,000, but if we limit it to within the walls of the city, then I think that's close to the real number.

TOPIC 15 - Not describing even an overview of the massacre because the number of victims isn't agreed upon would be a mistake. I think that it would be acceptable to mention that we have not yet resolved this matter by writing that a faction denying the massacre also exists on the other hand.

TOPIC 16 - I won't go so far to rank it equal with the Holocaust, but I do think that, as an incident corresponding to the Holocaust, it was an unpardonable crime.

TOPIC 17 - My views have changed slightly. At first I had deemed the number of victims at 150,000, but after consulting the findings of other researchers, I personally think that it is reasonable to say that the number was close to 200,000.

For more information, I think that "Field Postal Flag(野戦郵便旗)" by Motokatsu Sasaki is the single most important work as a record from that time. In addition, I think that the pamphlet entitled "Guidelines for Soldiers in Service(従軍兵士の心得)", which the War Department handed out to soldiers in August 1938, is important as a material that hints at the incident.


        YUTAKA YOSHIDA - Professor at Hitotsubashi University

TOPIC 1 - (13.) From where we are at now, I estimate it was a figure at least greater than 100,000, especially because the true state of the massacre in the rural areas surrounding Nanking is hardly clear.

TOPIC 2 - (4.) It was a blatant war of aggression, but since it was a war, we probably shouldn't include the battle dead from normal combat actions in the massacre.

TOPIC 3 - (4.) A time period from December 1 1937 when the Imperial Headquarters ordered Nanking to be taken, up to about March 1938 when law and order had almost been restored.

TOPIC 4 - (5.) The areas brought under the control of the Central China Area Army within the period of time I referred to in topic 3. Consequently, (1.) is not included, but I can't restrict it to the city of Nanking. I am also including all of the Nanking Special Administrative District (the walled city of Nanking and surrounding rural areas).

TOPIC 5 - Firstly, killing of POWs and troops who were surrendering. Secondly, the execution of Chinese stragglers who had thrown away their uniforms and weapons and were lying low in the refugee zone (They were applicable to be interned as POWs, and even if there really were hostile acts by them, to execute them the procedure of a military tribunal is mandatory). Thirdly, killing of retreating soldiers without the will to fight (The Japanese should have at least made an effort to intern them as POWs). Fourthly, the killing of civilians.

TOPIC 6 - (4.) They were demoralized stragglers of the regular army. Because they were executed without even a military trial ordinary civilians who were mistaken for soldiers also ended up getting executed.

TOPIC 7 - no answer

TOPIC 8 - Concerning the interpretation of international laws at that time, I have given a full explanation in my work "Modern History and War Responsibility(現代歴史学と戦争責任)" and the jointly authored work "Thirteen Lies of the Deniers of the Nanking Massacre(南京大虐殺否定論13のウソ)".

Furthermore, from at least the end of January 1938 even the legal affairs departments of the Central China Area Army were using military tribunals to execute Chinese guilty of hostile acts,

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as shown in "The Diary of a Certain Judge Advocate(ある軍法務官の日記)" by Sekijiro Ogawa. We could say that this demonstrates that the procedure of a military tribunal is fundamentally necessary for an execution.

As an aside, this question itself is biased. If you take a neutral position, you probably should also ask at the same time, "If there is smoking gun historical data that clearly states that the executions carried out by the Japanese Army were legal under international law then please present them."

TOPIC 9 - Firstly, responsibility for going ahead with the advance on Nanking without logistical support, making plunder commonplace. Secondly, responsibility for not taking action to protect POWs, surrendering troops, and stragglers. Thirdly, responsibility for not taking action to curb the uncontrolled entry of units into Nanking. Fourthly, responsibility for not taking sufficient steps to cooperate with the International Committee for the Nanking Safety Zone and protect the refugees. Fifthly, responsibility for the harshness of the mopping up operation because he was shackled by a military philosophy that dated to the Russo-Japanese War and held the victory parade prematurely. Sixthly, responsibility for delving into political manoeuvring, like the setting up of a puppet government, and not focusing his attention on the essential duties of a commander.

TOPIC 10 - Firstly, he was responsible for drawing civilians into the war by adopting an absolute policy of defending to the death the city of Nanking where there were many refugees. Secondly, he was responsible for forfeiting his duties as a commander and fleeing Nanking during the battle. Because of this the chaos in the city increased greatly.

TOPIC 11 - (5.) The name "Nanking Massacre" is probably a post-war thing, but the incident itself was known from the time it occurred.

TOPIC 12 - On the one hand I do think that the numbers were exaggerated, but the Japanese did use POWs and stragglers to test out their new swords.

TOPIC 13 - Iris Chang didn't have any knowledge of the state of research in Japan, she explains the incident through the racial and national characteristics of the Japanese people, and she totally ignores the facts that there is a movement in Japan for self-reflection on the incident and that the matter is also brought up in textbooks. For these three reasons, I think that it is a very problematic book.

TOPIC 14 - I think Rabe's diary is a precious historical source. However, we need to further clarify all the facts through analysis of German diplomatic papers.

TOPIC 15 - Textbooks should comment on it in detail to make clear the responsibility of the Japanese people and government for the crime.

TOPIC 16 - It wasn't an operation designed to destroy a designated area per se, unlike the Three Alls Policy, but rather it was a war crime that took place in the wake of the battle to capture the Chinese capital. Hence I am, honestly speaking, hesitant to call it a holocaust. On this point I want to do additional study.

TOPIC 17 - Initially I found out facts about the incident that were not well known, including the war crimes of the Japanese Navy in bombing Nanking and the opium trading of the puppet government set up in Nanking which the Special Service Agency of the Japanese armed forces participated in in violation of international law. I gradually became able to understand the scale of the incident. And concerning this point, I greatly question the fact that this survey focuses the problem only on the "massacre". You probably should have also asked about the looting and rapes at the very least.

The books that I will put forward as important references are "The Nanking Incident(南京事件)" by Ikuhiko Hata, "Collected Source Materials on the History of the Battle of Nanking(南京戦史資料集)" edited by Kaikosha's Battle of Nanking Committee, "The Japanese Army in Nanking - The Nanking Massacre and its Context(南京の日本軍 - 南京大虐殺とその背景)" by Akira Fujiwara, "The Nanking Incident(南京事件)" by Tokushi Kasahara, and "Thirteen Lies of the Deniers of the Nanking Massacre(南京大虐殺否定論13のウソ)" by the Research Committee on the Nanking Incident.

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