Member OPINIONS

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From member Jack

posted Jan 28, 2014, 10:04 AM by Hideaway Valley   [ updated Jan 28, 2014, 10:04 AM ]

This is precisely the sort of drama that prevents me from being a member of this community anymore.
Jack McNabb

OPEN LETTER TO BOARD re invalid ballots and votes

posted Jan 28, 2014, 9:26 AM by Hideaway Valley   [ updated Jan 28, 2014, 9:46 AM ]

(Sent by registered mail 01/27/2014)

RE: Formal objection to invalid ballot of 1-25-2014 and members voting on important topic without proper notice to 95% of all members. (HVPOA Bylaws Section 2.11: Informalities and Irregularities)

I. The Ballot of 1-25-2014 was invalid for 3 reasons:

a) it was not sent in enough time but postmarked on Jan 13th to be turned in by the 24th of January which is 11 days and not the 15 days required by state law and our documents.

b) the vote for number of annual meetings on the ballot was multiple choice. State law clearly states that any measure (other than for director) has to be a yes or no vote

c) the vote for number of meetings is clearly a manipulation removing member's choice about having quarterly meetings which they already voted on twice.1 (in other words, you can't just disappear a valid member vote by excluding it on a ballot and replacing it with your choice thus forcing them the “vote” your way)

II. The vote in the member meeting to uphold the ballot is invalid because you cannot have members vote on something so important (invalidating state law) without proper notice and it being on the agenda.

II. Harm that will come to association as result of the above:

a) Quarterly meetings are necessary because politics in Hideaway are volatile and Sate law says a board does not have to let members speak at board meetings. We have had boards in the past who would not let us speak at a board meeting—there fore we need quarterly member meetings as a check for errant boards.

b) Not giving enough notice on a ballot disenfranchises members from governance.

c) Voting on measures not given any notice to members totally disenfranchises them and is against state law.

Setting precedence that disenfranchises members is a slippery slope that will eventually backfire and hurt us all—it may end in losing good members who will not live in tyranny and it will eventually culminate in another lawsuit costing us more resources and valuable time best left to taking care of the roads.

There is no good reason to take choices away from members and not follow state law. And there are many good reasons to just do things by the books. It is simple, clean and saves resources because then no one can complain.

I also find it strange that Roy Walker, who writes at least 2 objection letters a month when he is not on the board, is trying to take away our choice for quarterly meetings on invalid ballots—it is he who screamed the loudest when he thought he found minor (and imaginary) irregularities in procedure and now he is spearheading usurious irregularities in procedure.

Please see two enclosed (of 25 objection letters) I have from Roy Walker that illustrates his hypocrisy.

You would think that Roy, who has led members in two lawsuits costing us a lot, would take special measures not to do what he has complained about so loudly in the past. It seems when he perceives “rights” being taken from him—he cries loudly, but when he is in charge, he thinks nothing of taking our rights. In 2011 Walker was very worried that the board might not be honoring the quarterly meetings that HE HIMSELF voted for in 2008. When he thought they were taking them away HE FILED OBJECTIONS AGAINST this power grab.

I expect the board to follow the law and the documents. AND you may not think the by laws voted in in April 2010 are something you have to follow, but they were voted in legally and we are subject to them and if this ever gets to court the by-laws legally voted in are the bylaws we are subject to—don't kid yourselves that you can use any old bylaws you want.

I am astonished that you are not acting in the best interests of the association, you are representing only a narrow group of members and you are trying to circumvent the protections we put in place for very good reason.

Signed,

Shelly Marshall, former board member

CC Peter Harrison, Alvin Lungren

1Note to Vik, if a vote outcome is “distributed evenly” between three choices as you explained in your newsletter-- any two of the three will have “2/3rds” of the vote—so you using the justification that we can't vote on having quarterly meetings because choices 1 and 2 are “2/3rds” of the votes is clearly ignorant—choice 1 and 3 and 2 and 3 also represented 2/3rds” of the members and you should be ashamed of trying to manipulate members in such an outrageous manner.

attachments--letters from Walker were dated July 21 and July 28th and both objected to the possibility of losing the quarterly meetings--Roy specifically wrote "I Want quarterly meetings" in  his letter. They are part of the member records and copies were sent to the board. Any member can request them from the board--or you may contact Tom LeFevre who has copies of board records and he will get them to you.

RE the 3:30 afternnon board meeting

posted Sep 13, 2013, 6:34 PM by Hideaway Valley   [ updated Sep 13, 2013, 6:35 PM ]

The current discussion among our Trustees about eligibility requirements for candidates for Trustee elections is appropriate. My concern is that the discussion is taking place out of view to most of the owners. Notice of the "meeting" at 3 pm this afternoon to discuss the topic was posted on the bulletin board but I have been told that one of the three current trustees did not know about it until told by an owner who saw the notice. I only became aware of the meeting yesterday and did not have time to arrange to be there for the meeting.

The meeting is scheduled to be held at the residence of an owner who was a candidate for trustee with some question about his eligibility at the time of the last two votes.. . It would be more appropriate to have this discussion at a neutral location.

This issue needs to be resolved as soon as possible. The work load is too heavy for only three trustees to manage effectively. Please, Trustees, keep the decision process open and accessible to as many owners as possible.

Terry

Update:
I have a report of the discussion about eligibility of candidates for election as trustee and do not agree with the action reportedly taken by two trustees who met and decided by themselves in the absence of the third trustee to seat two candidates in the recent election as trustees. I have no confidence in this conduct of business without a quorum which, with two vacancies, requires all three trustees to be present. I understood that the notice for the meeting specified that eligibility would be discussed, not that decisions would be made. Two Trustees can discuss anything at any time but they cannot act on anything and a quorum can only act on the items listed in the notice of the meeting.

I will be listing our Lots E471 and E472 for sale at the County taxable value of $10,680 and $10,000 respectively. Both values are negotiable. I cannot afford to own property in an Association which is governed without respect to the law or its own by-laws.

I may be contacted at 801-414-4031 by anyone who is interested in discussing a purchase or either or both of these lots.

Just a note about the alerts

posted Sep 11, 2013, 12:19 PM by Hideaway Valley

Shelly, I appreciate all you do to keep us up to date. Mistakes happen and you are a big person for owning up. I trust you implicitely regardless. Thanks for being the extra eyes and ears that our board consistently needs. Hope to meet you in person one day. Thanks, js

Recap of the Member Meeting July 27,2013

posted Aug 2, 2013, 12:50 PM by Hideaway Valley

At the Pavilion on July 27.

Bringing some water and refreshments, I was 10 minutes late. I noted that votes were being counted by a group of members led by Garciela Meyers. Bev Winter was finishing the financial report and we have $53,000 in the bank. the questions was asked about how many members have come current because of collections. Bev did not have the information from the auditors at this time. Vic said that collections were ongoing and affidavits had been signed.

The president continued with the agenda talking about weeds. He explained that the county had sent a letter about weed abatement. Questions were asked about what areas were sprayed. The county man identified that it was the lower part of Hideaway that they were concerned with--as a consequence the board hired a professional to appease the county  Lots with animals and young children and members requests to take care of their own lots were addressed. People were concerned about their foliage as well as the effect on squirrels, deer, bird and other animals. 

Questions were brought forth from the members about who is responsible for brush by roads. We were reminded that the property owner pays taxes to the middle of the road and granted an easement to the association so all owners had access to their property. 

Next on the agenda was roads. Boyd discussed the resent road base applied to a stretch of potholes between the pavilion and the entrance  We were informed that 3 inches of asphalt 18 feet wide is $50,000 per mile. Beverly added it was more like a $100,012 per mile because of prep work. The asphalt that is here was given to the association years ago and was not laid correctly and only considered a stopgap measure. Fred Smith, one of the original developers, congratulated the association and Boyd on the condition of the roads and suggested the roads could use more crown. It was explained by Boyd we were doing 2 inch lifts and working on the crown as we go. Members expressed their thoughts that roads should be the main concern of the board.

Vic said were are doing the best we can on the roads. 

Continuing on the agenda was signs. Steel posts for Road signs are scheduled to be installed Aug 3rd. Fred Smith volunteered his post hole digger for the job. We thank Fred for the service. One of the road signs was at the meeting. It resembled a regular city street sign--it was green with reflective letters. Teh volunteer fire department is going to help install the posts. 

Bev gave a report on the beautification committee  The sign by the fire station was removed, repaired, and painted by Randy and Vicki Hill--thanks! She also mentioned the painting of the bleachers and the horseshoe pit that was newly constructed. She would like to see a swing set and basketball hoop put in. A member volunteered to donate a basketball hoop. 

There was a general discussion about the old records and where to store them. Some of the lessons of the past are contained in the records and we discussed what to keep. 

The election came in and 123 lots were represented. Don Biery received 56 votes. The write-ins were, Roy walker 40, Tom LeFevre 11, Troy Russel 8, Scott Williams 3, Justin Williams 3, tom Meyers 1, Mike golden 1.

Tom Meyers humorously declined. Roy Walker withdrew/declined any position twice stating that he did not want to run again. Vocal members kept saying that write-ins were only good until the next members meeting unless they received 51% of votes represented. Others questioned where the documents say 51%. No one at today's election had 51%. Many repeated, "Follow the documents or change them." Much lively discussion ensured as you may well guess.  

Vic did a good job of letting members express themselves until it became contentious at which point he moved to the next agenda item. I felt the recent progress in our association slow down with the old hecklers at it again.     

Will we ever get a forward motion that works for the whole community and not just the complaining few year round residents? Some of my observations, 

I am asking for volunteers to help with the recaps. Please contact me. I understand why some don't want to sign their names but I enjoyed this basic overview. 

with humor and frustration, Rachael LeFevre

HVPOA 2013 Annual Members Meeting Recap

posted Apr 28, 2013, 2:29 PM by Hideaway Valley   [ updated Apr 28, 2013, 3:03 PM ]

People arrived at the Wilkersonm in Provo at 9am to be greeted with a fire drill! The staff at BYU had neglected to inform the board that a fire drill had been planned for months! 

But after the drill, about 20 minutes, Randy Hill called the meeting to order. There was a quorum of the board, although no quorum of the board is actually needed to conduct a member's meeting--only for a board meeting, a quorum for a members meeting is determined by how many participants show up and how many ballots arrive. 

Never-the-less, the meeting proceeded in harmony. It is astounding how harmonious this particular board is. It reminds me of the time that Rick Widdop brought in a peace pipe for the board--he had the right idea in mind. Unfortunately it still took years before that peace was achieved. Now, I think we see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Back to the meeting. Although the minutes were approved from the last member meeting (Vik, our secretary  read them), there were no copies of the minutes available, but Vik did say he would send it to anyone who requested them, they would be posted on the web site and as soon as the Member to Member site gets a copy, we will send them out. 

The ballots were brought up and Vicki Hill and Shelly Marshall volunteered to count them with the BYU students form guest services. While the ballots were being counted, there was an accounts update, a review of the road maintenance and Beverly Winters reported on the beautification committee. A member, Del, Suggested that the board consider putting up the information on the web site where the road signs were manufactured and what the specs were so that if members wanted they could order additional signs in the same color, size and font. The Board said they would take that up.

The ballot results were as follows:
The budget passed with 52 votes for and 18 against. 

Candidate votes:
Vik                      67
Boyd                    54
Tom LeFevre (write in)        26
Don Biery (Write in)           12
Rick Whiddop (Write in) 1
Carl Winters (Write in) 1

Congratulations to the three new board members: Vik Arnold, Boyd Williams, and Tom LeFevre.

Randy Hill reported on concerns of the "Write-in" blank on ballots and wanted to forma committee to see if it was necessary and legal to have the "Write-in" blank. Vic Arnold volunteered Shelly Marshall, Carl Winters, and Dell to form the committee to report back to the board on this issue.

The meeting was adjourned at approx 11:50. The board meeting followed after a brief break. 

Recap of Special Members Meeting HVPOA

posted Jan 21, 2013, 11:40 AM by Hideaway Valley

January 19, 9am @ Mt Pleasent city Hall
attended by around 50 members

Meeting began promptly at 9 am and was led by president Randy Hill. He had two letters to read, one from the county attorney, Ross Blackham and the other from HVPOA attorney Peter Harrison. Both letters said basically the same thing--the county does not want to maintain our roads, they have to be maintained so the county will not allow us to dissolve. In order to legally dissolve, the county will have to approve it, and they will not.

Everyone received 5 minutes to have their say. One speaker brought up taxes and double taxation. Randy mentioned that the county only receives $44 per lot in taxes and will not take over  the association for that amount. The rest of the tax money goes to the schools, jails, and so on. Becoming a township is also not an option according to Harrison.
Several people brought up the garbage again but were reminded that this was not what this meeting was called for. It was also brought up that the leaflet sent out was not form the board or any committee of the board, although it had the return address of the association. Someone mentioned that misrepresenting the mailer as coming form the board is considered mail fraud. It was not mentioned if that would be pursued. 

Rita Walker said that they had a difficult time getting the mailing addresses of everyone and Beverly Winters, trustee, told everyone that she had offered to print anything that Brian Cook wanted, to which Mr. Cook agreed and Rita apologized.

Then Mr. Bowers stood up and said that since there was not going to be any way to dissolve the association, their business was over and could they go home? The meeting was adjourned by 9:30 am. 

This special meeting was called by a petition of 10% of the members and cost the rent for the meeting room, the mailing cost of the notice,  lawyers fee, and a half a day for the attendees. Calling a special meeting is the right of each lot owner, especially when they have legitimate concerns and in no way does anyone want to take that right away. But the point is, the ones who put the petition together did not do their homework first. They did not ask those who have done their homework or check on state and county law. If they had done their homework, we wouldn't be out this money.

In addition, rather than a petition, they could have simply written a letter and asked to be on the agenda for the next member's meeting, Randy would have included them and they may have even been asked to write a piece for the newsletter expressing what they wanted to cover--the board is not our enemy. Randy, Beverly, Boyd, ect are good people. If you want to talk about something at a meeting or put a blurb in the newsletter, ASK first. If its reasonable, no one is going to censor you. We've had contrary board members in the past, but the past should not reflect on the present until proven otherwise.  This particular board is the best we've had in a very long time. They will work with everyone, they want to keep costs down, they are not trying to run everyone's life, and they are transparent! 

Meeting attended and reported by Tom LeFevre, recorded by Shelly Marshall

BALLOT INSTRUCTION REVISIONS OCT 2012

posted Oct 8, 2012, 3:47 PM by Hideaway Valley

President Randy Hill has requested that we post revised instructions for the mail in ballot for the October Meeting of the members.
THE BALLOT MUST BE RECEIVED BY A BOARD MEMBER OR AT THE MAIL BOX OF THE ASSOCIATION BY OCTOBER 26 OR SUBMITTED AT THE BOARD MEETING IN MOUNT PLEASANT CITY HALL AT 10:00 AM OCTOBER 27, 2012 AT THE MEETING.
The date of the meeting was incorrectly shown as October 20 on the ballot sent out with the newsletter.

HVPOA Recap of Board Meeting Aug 23rd

posted Aug 25, 2012, 11:10 AM by Hideaway Valley   [ updated Aug 25, 2012, 12:07 PM ]

Thursday August 23rd. 6:30 pm @ Randy Hills Garage (please note that the agenda is attached at the bottom of this post)

Members present: Mr. and Mrs Higgins, Mr. and Mrs Peterson, Mr. and Mrs LeFevre, Annette Grant, Shelly Marshall, Bryan Cook, Marty Dietz, Mr. and Mrs Meyers, Rita Walker, Vicki Hill

Trustees present: Randy Hill, Roy Walker, Beverly Winters, Boyd Williams

Randy Hill, our association president opened the meeting on time. He had called for an executive session prior to this meeting to address some internal matters regarding Roy Walker. However, Mr. Walker did not attend the executive session so the matter had to be discussed in the open board meeting.

First order of business was to call for approval of minutes from July 21 board meeting and today's agenda. Both approved.

President Hill's first order of business was to thank Roy Walker for his service to the association and as treasurer. He then motioned to have him retire from the position of treasurer. Roy asked about the reasoning for this and Randy stated that Roy had trouble relating to members about accounts. Mr. Walker and his wife pulled up a letter from the association attorney (contents unknown) and President Hill also had a letter from the same attorney. Mr. Walker had contacted the attorney without board approval which has been a concern in the past.

Rachael LeFevre asked who was going to pay for the work of our attorney at Roy's request and Roy answered, "I suppose I'll have to if we don't decide something different." Roy became agitated and there were some heated exchanges. Roy and his wife left at that point.

The board voted to remove Roy as treasurer with three votes and Roy's abstention.

The president motioned that the board appoint a liaison to the attorney so that trustees could not incur unauthorized costs to the association. In other words if a trustee contacted the attorney without authorization, that trustee would have to pay the invoice for that service. Shelly Marshall pointed out that the board already had a policy in place for that. The president was considered the liaison to the attorney(s). Tom LeFevre added that it was in past minutes and already official policy.

The president discussed various problems with the treasurer's report and explained that at the next meeting he would have a comprehensive one.

Next order of business was to present Don Beiry's resignation letter (he is going on mission). The board voted to accept his resignation.

Randy gave a delinquent accounts update. That too is being worked on but he did explain that collections may total up to $45,000 and wants to put this toward the road budget. Once the budget is amended, the board will put this up for a new vote. It was mentioned that it would be best if they clearly explained that assessments would not increase and that the monies would come from past due collections.

Next on the agenda was an offer by the county to take care of the weeds on the roads and possibly put in place bases for road signs. Randy Hill had the detailed offer which the board already had copies of. A county official told Randy it was time sensitive and wanted the board to vote on it. The three board members in attendance generally agreed they wanted to take the offer.

The board discussed doing street signs for the entire association. Tom Meyers had done the research work on this project and the signs will cost up to $6000. Mr Meyers found a company in Colorado that would do them to county specs and they were less expensive than some local companies. All signs will comply with the county road specifications which will help the fire department and also be lower risk for liability. (ie high enough so they won't clip and cut people and are eaisly seen above brush and snow). The board intends to have the question of signs on the next ballot.

The president then went to the business of the reserve study. A law has become effective in July that all associations have reserve studies done. It can be done by a professional, the board or an expert of their choosing. Reserve accounts are monies collected from members to replace and repair large ticket items that cannot be handled in an annual budget. Randy explained that Terry Holzworth had done some research on this. Reserve studies can cost from $1800 to many more thousands. However, Terry Holzworth is an engineer and therefore considered an expert. He wrote a one page reserve study analysis which Randy read. Basically it says that we don't have any large capital investments that require a reserve account. The board voted to put the reserve study on the ballot for member approval.

Randy Hill then asked Shelly Marshall if she had secured the URL for the association. She informed the board that Tom LeFevre had. In fact Tom Lefevre actually owns the URL since the board let it lapse. He offered to donate it back to the association. Randy emphatically stated he wanted to get the minutes and other information back up on the web site as soon as possible. Shelly Marshall offered to help him with the site and to get needed information posted and up to date.

Kent Higgins mentioned that he didn't want the web site to be linked the the Member to Member site because people posted things anonymously. Several members expressed concern. Shelly Marshall explained that the unofficial member site encourages members to post things under their name but allowed them to do it anonymously because in the past there have been issues of becoming a target. Members felt freer to express concerns if they felt they would not become a target of their neighbors or any trustee. Rachael LevFevre pointed out that the Member to Member site is not, nor never has been an official site of the association and that the board does not endorse it--only lets members use it to communicate with each other. She said that members had a choice on whether they wanted to click through to the Member to Member site or not. Randy motioned that any further discussion of the link from the web site be tabled until the next board meeting. Tabled unanimously.

Roy and Rita Walker returned and Rita gave Randy a file with the bills that needed to be paid. Tom Lefevre asked for the mail box key and Rita said she would have to get it.

Volunteer labor was dicussed and the possibility of a "waiver of liability." Becky Peterson brought up that if a member was to work off their dues, and also give the association a 1099 that they then became an independent contractor, not an employee. The issue of liablity was avoided. Randy said that he was going to look into it.

During the member comment time, Shelly Marshall asked about her culvert that was buried and subsequently plugged by Red Z widening the road. Marty Dietz also discussed his plugged culverts from the road work. Terry Holzworth commented that if the member installed the culvert properly and the association later widened the roads so as to damage the culverts that the association should fix them. Shelly said if the board could help her with the culvert, she would pay for the rock replacement. Randy said they all had equipment (himself included) and Boyd and Tom Lefevre volunteered to fix it.

The meeting adjourned at 8:45 pm.


Recap compiled by Shelly Marshall

Notes on Meeting of the Members

posted Jul 25, 2012, 7:55 PM by Hideaway Valley

Mt Pleasant, UT City Park

Saturday, July 21, 2012

10:15 or so AM

 

The primary issue was the ballot for a Trustee which had been mailed to the members. A total of 52 votes were cast for Beverly Winters and no write ins were submitted.  Congratulations to Beverly as our newly elected Trustee.

 

General discussions were conducted regarding the status of collections of delinquent accounts, ongoing road maintenance, the reserve analysis required by new legislation, and weed control.

 

 Collections are going well and we have already collected more than the mount shown in the approved budget   Based on discussion by members present the Board will prepare a revised budget to add these funds and additional anticipated collection amounts to the 2012-13 budget revenues and allocate as much of the additional as possible to road maintenance. The revised budget will be submitted to the members with a ballot for their vote at the October, 20, 2012 Meeting of the members.

 

The requirement for a Reserve Analysis has resulted in concern about what the legislation actually requires.  The legislation provides in Section 57-8a-211 (3): “The board may conduct a reserve analysis itself or may engage a reliable person or organization, as determined by the board, to conduct the reserve analysis.” Terry Holzworth agreed to make some calls to find out what it would cost to have a “reliable” person or organization to conduct such an analysis and also determine a cost for the study and a definition of what would need to be included. This information will be given to President Randy Hill for the board’s information and completion of the analysis.

 

A committee was appointed to manage the weed control program and see that the weeds on the road rights of way were taken care of.

 

Another committee was appointed to develop a written procedure for the counting of ballots.

 

Questions have been raised about the vote to approve the appointment of Roy Walker to the board. The ballot for that election indicated it was a vote to approve the appointment until the April 21, 2012 annual meeting of the members. Roy was not on the ballot at the annual meeting and yet continues to serve.  Some of the members remember being told by former President Gary Jordan at a meeting that the issue would be “taken care of.”

President Randy will contact Gary to determine his recollection of that discussion so the current board can follow up on whatever commitment Gary actually made.

 

Prepared from sketchy notes by Terry Holzworth

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