G-L293

This is the home page for men who have the L293 subgroup but are negative for its SNP subgroup
or those just predicted L293+. Testing to determine membership in the L293 by those only
predicted is always welcome.  Testing is not necessary if a close relative was found to have L293
or man has the very distinctive marker values seen in the two L293 subgroup based on shared
marker value oddities.

L293 is a younger branch of a larger group of men who have the P15 mutation.   There is a page
tab for G-P15 on the left but has no significant information.  In contrast, the older mutation that
encompasses even more men, P287, has considerable info in the G-P287 tab.  And older yet is the
M201 mutation that encompasses all G men, and there is also much info in the G-M201 tab.  

L293 has a single subgroup defined by having a permanent SNP mutation.  This is the P16
subgroup.

Almost all men within L293, including its subgroups, have 10 at the DYS392 marker.  This is
not seen often outside of L293.  The men in the two subgroups based on marker oddities have 
11 at marker DYS505 which helps to distinguish them from the P16 subgroup. But the
defining marker values of the two subgroup are found in the more commonly order markers,
showing either a YCA value of 13,21 or DYS438=11 depending on the subgroup.  
These latter men share also a rare value of less than 18 for marker DYS481.  Whole Y-DNA
sequencing will identify new SNPs which will be a more reliable replacement for these
marker values in defining the subgroup.

Age of L293

Whole Y-DNA sequencing will give us a much better idea of the age of L293.   The variation
within L293 men using 67-marker samples suggests this L293 group with its subgroups may be
only about 5000 or so years old.  But the early branches may have died out, and it likely would
take many more centuries to get back to the mother P15 group.

Within the DYS438=11 subgroup based on comparison of marker values, the common ancestor
seems to have lived 1,500 to 2,500 years ago.  But it is possible the subgroup existed earlier than 
that as family group and all the current members of the group are descended from a more recent
ancestor within the group.  The YCA=13,21 subgroup could be 3,000 years or older, with the same
advisory about an earlier family group from which there was no branching apparent today.  Whole
genome sequencing would clarify the ages of both these subgroups.

Geographical Dispersal of L293

The P16/18 subgroup is heavily concentrated in the central Caucasus Mountains area, north in
North Ossetia, and south in South Ossetia, also among the Svans and parts of northern Georgia.
It is expected there is some also in southern Georgia, but this is poorly defined at present.
Both the DYS438=11 and YCA=13,21 subgroups so far only report western European
origins.  The YCA subgroup is predominantly Spanish so far, and the DYS438 subgroup, 
predominantly Italian. 

In the YHRD database there is an unusual concentration of Swiss men whose marker values
are consistent with the L293 subgroup.  Many samples were gathered in Basel.

Origin of the Overall L292 Subgroup

Because of the overall age of the three L293 subgroups, there are almost an infinite number of
possibilities as to how they might has dispersed both during the pre-history and historical 
periods.    Unless some additional subgroups are identified, this may be a mystery that goes
unsolved.  But having a more reliable time estimation will reduce the possibilities.

Maps for the L293 Subgroup

This subgroup is too new for maps to have appeared in research studies.   The SNP subgroups
have their own maps.   
Look at top left of map and choose the L293 subgroup.  Just below this are the maps for the 
YCA=13,21 and DYS438=11 subgroups.

Source information:

L293 has never been tested in a published study.  So no useful information is available.

Rootsi and others provided 4 samples from Corsica in 2012 that were P15+ and negative
for L91.  Four had double DYS19 values, clearly placing them in the L293+ status.

The YHRD database shows an unusual concentration of seemingly L293 men in Switzerland.

Seeming YCA=13,21 Results from Elsewhere

                                                                                                                                     Marker designations in blue

Kit No.SurnameAncestral.origin
 
Haplo
Code
 
YSearch
Link
39339019
(394)
391385
a
385
b
426388439389
i
392389
ii
458459
a
459
b
455454447437448449464
a
464
b
464
c
464
d
464
e
464
f
460GATA
H4
YCA
IIa
YCA
IIb
456607576570CDY
a
CDY
b
442438531578395
S1a
395
S1b
590537641472406
S1
511425413
a
413
b
557594436490534450444481520446617568487572640492565441461463445452YGATA
A10
YGATA
H4.1
462GGAAT
1807
635
 
YHRDsample
HispanicAmerican
X
 
142215101515111112102918162011141021
 
YHRDsample
HispanicAmerican
X
 
142215101515111112102919162111141021
             The YHRD database is a public database of samples from all over the world


Special Testing

The following YCA= 13,21 men have the following results for newer, poorly defined SNP mutations:   
                                                                                                        + means positive, - means negative
 
L31+ Phillips/Filippelli
L72- Phillips/Filippelli
L78- Phillips/Filippelli
L79+ Phillips/Filippelli
L116+ Phillips/Filippelli
L139- Phillips/Filippelli
L142+ Phillips/Filippelli
L154+ Phillips/Filippelli
L156+ Phillips/Filippelli
L166- Phillips/Filippelli
L167- Phillips/Filippelli
L183- Phillips/Filippelli
L190- Phillips/Filippelli
L204+ Phillips/Filippelli
L293+ Gonzalez, Nanez, Phillips/Filippelli
L382+ Phillips/Filippelli
L1259- Gonzalez
Page99- Phillips/Filippelli

The following DY438=11 subgroup men have the following results
for newer, poorly defined SNP mutations: 
                                                                                                         + means positive, - means negative
L31+ Jacoy
L149+ Jacoy
L293+ Jacoy
U5+ Jacoy
 
          more info about these SNPs can be found at:
                   type L1325, for example, in the Landmark box.  After searching, look
                               for the small L1325 in the colored area and click on it.
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