G-P16

This is the home page of men who have the P16  mutation or  predicted
to have it or should have had these.
Unfortunately P16 is not is ideal as a defining mutation for any haplogroup.   It is
in a part of the chromosome subject to additional mutations, and in practice it 
has provided troublesome results.  If P16  is found present, then one can be
sure the person has that mutation, but -- if missing -- they may have had ancestors who had
it if the characteristic marker values are present.  In 2013, P18, which has the same problems,
was eliminated as a P16 category when more reliable equivalents became available.

Back in 2007, Thomas Krahn of Family Tree DNA provided a technical explanation of the
P16 problem.

Whole sequencing of P16 men is currently underway, and it is highly likely a replacement for
P16 will be found.

There is one subgroup of P16 based on sharing the Z7940 mutation and a second based on
sharing Z6673.

P16 has some typical marker values. For DYS392, a value of ten is almost always
present.  And the DYS385 values are typically, 15-16, 15-17 or 15-18...or... 16 for the
first component.

Age of P16

Whole Y-DNA sequencing will provide us the most accurate reading to date on the age of
P16 and its subgroups.  Presently we use the number of value differences in 67-marker
samples to estimate the age.  And this suggests the P16 is probably over 5,000 years old.            

Rootsi et al. in 2012 used a formula commonly used in research studies, and argued for
coalescence age estimate of 9500 years for P16 based on the samples available to them.
This was the same calculation as for the (97) P16 samples from the Caucasus  
For a small number of samples from eastern Europe and Turkey, they provided a
calculation of abt 7,500 yrs each.   This process used a formula available for working
with the number of mutations found when comparing marker values, and this is not
considered as reliable as counting SNPs in whole sequencing.  In addition, there could
be other ancestors with this mutation who lived earlier than the coalescent time with
available descendants and their most recent common ancestor.

Geographic Locations of the P16 Subgroup Men

In its totality, P16 is most concentrated in the central Caucasus area and in locations 
south of there.  Elsewhere, these men comprise a tiny part of the population.  Men who cannot be
assigned to a P16 subgroup among available samples are mostly from the Republic of
Georgia.  But diverse locations, such as Turkey, Spain, England and Uzbekistan are noticeable,
as well as from the north Caucasus.  Research studies have found small numbers of P16
men among eastern European Roma (Gypsies) and as far away as the Xibe ethnic group of
China.

Berger et al. in 2013 indicated they found about 3% P16 men among G men in a large sampling of 
Austrian population, and in totality P16 was less than a half of one percent of the total
European population.

YCA=21,21 men are overwhelmingly Ashkenazi Jews with reported ancestry involving n.e.
Europe.  There is one man, by exception among them with Austrian ancestry.  And there
is a man from the Republic of Georgia without enough testing who might belong to this
grouping, but his markers are different enough that the relationship was not recent.

There have been four major studies detailing the content of P16 in the Caucasus region.
These are Nasidze (several studies), Balanovksy, Yunusbaev, and Rootsi.  Nasidze did not
actually type for P16, but this can be deduced from his marker values.  The number of
samples gathered varied, and the studies are not in full agreement as to the percentage of
P16 among the G men in each group within the patchwork of ethnicities in the region.
The actual studies should be read to get the full details.  
A map at Yunusbaev (p 14) 
showing the diversity in the north.   Georgia to the south has more groups than shown.
This  next map shows the locations of Migrelians, Svans and Laz of Georgia who are not 
mentioned specifically in the studies to date and are important omissions because the 
Svans and S. Ossetians are thought to be related genetically to the N. Ossetians.

All the studies agree that Digorians and Ironians in North Ossetia have huge percentages
of P16 men among the native population.  Some Russians have moved into the area
in modern times.  And Balanovsky points out differing clustering of P16 marker values 
at Digora and Iron.  Rootsi also indicated most of the Georgian G samples (locations
unspecified) were P16, and this seems mirrored in the Nasidze marker samples.
But what we do not know from either is what Georgian groups were sampled.  There is
also agreement that P16 is a minority within G in Armenia to the south, but still quite
visible.  There also other groups of the western and central Caucasus with visible
percentages of P16 men.

The authors disagree on is the percentage of P16 among the Abhazs in the western
Caucasus, ranging from about 25 to 40%, and each result may have depended on different
locations sampled as this group straddles the north and south Caucasus.  There is also
an overlap of definitions among the Adyghe, Circassians and Shapsugs.  Balanovsky's
Shapsugs had a huge percentage of G (probably our L1266 men) with zero P16 men.
But Rootsi found about 40% of the Adyghe G were P16 as were half of the Circassians.  
These groups typically live in the western Caucasus.  Rootsi found almost half of Turkic 
G Balkars were P16.  This is a group that has been heavily deported from the western 
Caucasus.  

Balanovsky and others in 2011 also sampled the Caucasus area  finding 12% of Abkhaz were
P16/P18, 9.2%of Circassians, 73% of Ossets-Iron, 56% of Ossets-Digor,  1.2% of Ingush
and 1.2% of Lezghins. Other groups, such as Chechens, Avars, Dargins, Kubachie, Kaitak
had virtually none, and these were eastern groups.

A file at the YHRD database containing 47 samples of North Talysh in  nearby Azerbaijan lacks 
any likely P16 samples based on marker values, mirroring the findings of the authors
mentioned about paucity of G in the eastern Caucasus.    The Zalloua et. al 2008 study seems 
to have two Maronite Christian and one Sunni Muslim P16 samples from Lebanon.  
And in the same year, that author identified 3 probable P16 samples in Cyprus.  Cinnioglu  
in 2005 found 2 of 45 G men in Turkey -- both in the northwest -- had the P1 mutations

The probable P16 sample from Iran (Tehran) represents only 1 of the 444 Iranian 
samples of all types in the YHRD database. Possibly of significance -- unlike some other G 
subgroups  -- P16 samples from southern Asia do not seem to exist, but there is one
untested man in the G project from southern India with marker values similar to P16/P18
markers values but a considerable distance overall in values from other P16/P18 men.

In Europe, special mention can be made only of  the small alpine district of East Tyrol (Austria).
Niederstaetter et al. in 2012 provided G marker samples from there
in table S8 in which 9 of 20 samples seem to be P16 but have not been verified as such.

Joseph Stalin

Joseph Stalin, from a genetic test on his grandson (his son Vasily's son; Alexander Burdonsky), 
was found to have the P16 mutation.  This sample was tested for both markers and SNP 
mutations through the G Project.  This was arranged through Newsweek in Russia.  It is unclear 
who removed this sample from the project, which was partially paid by our donors.  It had a 
full 67 markers.   Currently some of the markers are displayed at the Haplogroup G site in Wikipedia.
He seems to belong to the DYS438=9 & DYS391=9 subgroup.  Stalin ruled the Soviet Union for over
25 years in the mid-1900s. While born in Georgia, his family seems to have been earlier in South 
Ossetia.  He was born Besarionis dze Jughashvili but changed his name.

Origins of P16 and Its Subgroups

Both Balanovsky and Yunusbayev in 2011 suggested a Near Eastern origin for the men of the
Caucasus.  This was not broken down by haplogroup.  One of the studies used all the
chromosomes, not just Y-DNA.   But there is nothing to indicate at what period they might
have migrated there.  It is known there were several cultures north of the Caucasus in
prehistoric times based on archaeological remains there.  To date no one has published
any genetic studies of these peoples.  

The multiple P16 subgroups in the Caucasus may simply be rather recent splitting of
and older population.  The whole genomes sequencing pending may help sort this out.
How those men show show up in Europe, Africa, eastern Asia, etc. got there is an open
question.

Maps for the P16 Subgroups

On the Project Roster, subgroups have their own maps.  
Look at top left of map and choose the P16 subgroup.  Just below this are the maps for the 
subgroups of P16.

This map (at bottom) from a 2012 study by Rootsi et al.
provides a P16-only map, but it is very tiny.  The accuracy of this is also in question because it
seems to highlight the area adjoining n. e. Turkey as having the highest P16 concentration and
some significant overlap into n.e. Turkey. The Turk samples were not enumerated as to
location, and the Cinnioglu study found its only two P16 men in n.w. Turkey, contrary to 
this map.  They are vague of what types of Georgians were samples and virtually ignored S.
Ossetia (unless they considered it part of Georgia)

The Balanovsky study from 2011 concentrated on the northern Caucasus but covered part
of the western Caucasus.  


Source Information

These studies by Nasidze and others were the first of the Caucasus area, but P16 status
as to be deduced from the marker samples:
Nasidze, I. et al., "Mitochondrial DNA and Y-Chromosome Variation in the Caucasus". Annals Human 
               Genetics 2004, 68 (Pt 3): 205-21.

Cinnioglu and others in 2004 found the first two P16 samples ever in n.w. Turkey:

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00439-003-1031-4#page-1

Niederstaetter and others in 2012 published a study of E. Tirol, Austria in 2012 that seemed

to have an unusual concentration of P16:

 http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0041885 (esp. Table S8)

Berger and others in 2013 listed the percentage of P16 among the Austrian population

Zalloua and others in 2008 found samples like P16 in Cyprus and the Middle East.

Identifying Genetic Traces of Historical Expansions: Phoenician Footprints in the Mediterranean

 [Lists varied G samples in supplementary data.] 

Y-Chromosomal Diversity in Lebanon [Lists varied G samples in supplementary data.] 


Balanovsky and others in 2011 suggested a Near East origin for the Caucasus populations
and provided detailed data on the population:

Yunusbayev and others covered the same topics in 2011:

Rootsi and others in 2012 included a study of P16 as one of the features. 

El-Sibai and others in 2009 identified likely P16/P18 samples in the Middle East:

Volgyi and others in 2009 reported markers among Hungarian Roma typical of P16 men

P16 Special Marker Testing

                                                                                                                                     Marker designations in blue with values underneath

Kit No.SurnameCategoryGrp.SNPDYS
463
DYS
643
DYS
461
DYS
462
DYS
635
DYS
726
DYS
434
DYS
435
DYS
441
DYS
445
DYS
452
DYS
485
DYS
495
DYS
714
DYS
716
DYS
717
GATA
A10
GGAAT
1B07
DYF
397
DYF
399X
DYF
371X
DYF
385
DYF
401
DYF
411
DYS
725
DYS
494
DYS
505
DYS
522
DYS
533
DYS
549
DYS
556
DYS
575
DYS
589
DYS
636
DYS
638
DYS
710
DYF
408
DYS
464X
167570
Harbian
P16/P18
YCA19,21
P18
9
42379
Canales
P16/P18
divers
P18
9
34185
Gursel
P16/P18
YCA20,21
P18
9
172420
Tchakedjian
P16/P18
divers
P18
9
N52911
Vicari
P16/P18
divers
P18
9
83339
Berezov
P16/P18
Cauc
P18
2212121221129111410271516232721121111 11991110141110131211
15923
Moody
P16/P18
YCA20,21
P18
22121212211191114102715162327221211991110131110131111
      The above includes men in P16 subgroups, but is listed here to show the DYS505 finding throughout P16.
       More recent results for DYS505 are on the Project Roster.

 Samples seemingly P16         

                                                                                                                                     Marker designations in blue with corresponding values below each

Kit No.SurnameAncestral.origin
 
Haplo
Code
 
YSearch
Link
39339019
(394)
391385
a
385
b
426388439389
i
392389
ii
458459
a
459
b
455454447437448449464
a
464
b
464
c
464
d
464
e
464
f
460GATA
H4
YCA
IIa
YCA
IIb
456607576570CDY
a
CDY
b
442438531578395
S1a
395
S1b
590537641472406
S1
511425413
a
413
b
557594436490534450444481520446617568487572640492565441461463445452YGATA
A10
YGATA
H4.1
462GGAAT
1807
635
 
1 YHRD sample
Eskinoy Turkey
X
1423159151811121110281716211215922
 
9 YHRD samples
Ardon,Ossetia, Russia
GENL
142315915171112111028
 
1 YHRD sample
Digora,Ossetia, Russia
GENL
142316915171112111028
 
1 YHRD sample
Digora,Ossetia, Russia
GENL
142316915161112111028
 
5 YHRD samples
Digora,Ossetia, Russia
GENL
142315915171112111028
 
1 YHRD samples
Digora,Ossetia, Russia
GENL
132315915171112111028
 
1 YHRD sample
Ardon,Ossetia, Russia
GENL
152315915171112111028

                   YHRD is a public database that contains many samples worldwide.  These seem to have come from a Nasidze study (see above.)


There are quite a few P16 samples available also from research studies, but they have great similarities.  So no purpose displaying them.

If they had tested YCA results that would have provided considerable help, but YCA is rarely tested.


Samples seemingly P16

                                                                                                                                     Marker designations in blue with corresponding marker values underneath each 


Kit No.SurnameAncestral.origin
 
Haplo
Code
 
YSearch
Link
39339019
(394)
391385
a
385
b
426388439389
i
392389
ii
458459
a
459
b
455454447437448449464
a
464
b
464
c
464
d
464
e
464
f
460GATA
H4
YCA
IIa
YCA
IIb
456607576570CDY
a
CDY
b
442438531578395
S1a
395
S1b
590537641472406
S1
511425413
a
413
b
557594436490534450444481520446617568487572640492565441461463445452YGATA
A10
YGATA
H4.1
462GGAAT
1807
635
 
1 YHRD sample
Ardon,Ossetia, Russia
GENL
1423151015171112111027
 
1 YHRD sample
Digora,Ossetia, Russia
X
1423151015161112111028
 
SorensonDB anonymous
Kyrgyzstan
X
1422151015171112121110271999111125162128131314141019211512101\31514122210261211121121
 
1 YHRD sample
Budapest,
Hungary
X
 
1422151015171112111028
 
1 YHRD
sample
MiercueaCiuc
Romania
X
 
1422151015171112111028
 
1 YHRD sample
Leipzig Germany
X
 
1422151015171112111028
 
1 YHRD sample
Nowytorg Poland
X
 
1422151015171112111028
 
1 YHRD sample
Wroclaw Poland
X
 
1422151015171112121110281715101021
 
1 YHRD sample
Tambov w.centralRussia
X
14231510151611121111102816162111151022
 
1 YHRD sample
Georgia
X
1422151015191112111029
                                YHRD is a public database that contains many samples worldwide.  The Ossetian ones seem to have come from a Nasidze study (see above.)
                                The Sorenson is another public database that may or may not now be available.

Samples seemingly P16

                                                                                                                                     Marker designations in blue
Kit No.SurnameAncestral.origin
 
Haplo
Code
 
YSearch
Link
39339019
(394)
391385
a
385
b
426388439389
i
392389
ii
458459
a
459
b
455454447437448449464
a
464
b
464
c
464
d
464
e
464
f
460GATA
H4
YCA
IIa
YCA
IIb
456607576570CDY
a
CDY
b
442438531578395
S1a
395
S1b
590537641472406
S1
511425413
a
413
b
557594436490534450444481520446617568487572640492565441461463445452YGATA
A10
YGATA
H4.1
462GGAAT
1807
635
 
YHRDstudy*
MendozaArgentina
X
142216101515111112103018162111161021
 
YCC
Sample80
 
FULL
 
142216101515111212121031261610
 
SorensonDB anonymous
Kashgar
China
X
142216101515111212121029179911112615212913131414102122151110131614132229121021
 
YCC
Sample24
 
FULL
 
142216101616111212121031261610
 
YHRD
Mestizo*
Antioquia
Colombia
X
 
14221610151611121031
 
ResearchStudy2*
Lebanon
(Maronite)
GENL
142216911121212102910
 
ResearchStudy2*
Lebanon
(Maronite)
GENL
 
1422161011121112102910
 
YHRDsample*
Armenia
X
1422161015151111121030
 
YHRDsample*
Tyrol Austria
X
1422161015151111121030
 
YHRDsample*
CaubutArgnetina
X
1422161015151111121030
 
YHRDsample*
MisionesArgentina
X
1422161015151111121030
 
2 YHRD
samples*
Costa Rica
X
1422161015151112121030181621111410
 
YHRDsample*
HispanicAmerican
X
1422161015151112121030181621111410
 
YHRDsample*
Costa Rica
X
1422161015151112121030171621111410
 
ResearchStudy2*
Lebanon
(Sunni)
GENL
 
1422161011121112102810
 
ResearchStudy3*
2 samples
Cyprus
GENL
 
1422161011121112102810
                                      YHRD is a public database that contains many samples worldwide.  
                                      The Sorenson is another public database that may or may not now be available. Research study 2 and 3 are from Zalloua (see above)

Additional seeming P16 samples

                                                                                                                                    Marker designations in blue

Kit No.SurnameAncestral.origin
 
Haplo
Code
 
YSearch
Link
39339019
(394)
391385
a
385
b
426388439389
i
392389
ii
458459
a
459
b
455454447437448449464
a
464
b
464
c
464
d
464
e
464
f
460GATA
H4
YCA
IIa
YCA
IIb
456607576570CDY
a
CDY
b
442438531578395
S1a
395
S1b
590537641472406
S1
511425413
a
413
b
557594436490534450444481520446617568487572640492565441461463445452YGATA
A10
YGATA
H4.1
462GGAAT
1807
635
 
YHRDsample*
BuenosAArgentina
 X
 
142215101416111312103010
 
YHRDsample*
Bulgaria(Turk)
 X
 
14221510151611121030
 
YHRDsample*
AndaluciaSpain
 X
 
14221510151611121030
 
YHRDsample*
MadridSpain
 X
 
142215101516111212103010
 
YHRDsample*
CaracasVenezuela
 X
 
142215101516111212103010
 
2 YHRD
samples*
HispanicAmericans
 X
 
142215101416111212103019162111141021
 
YHRDsample*
HispanicAmerican
 X
 
142215101416111212103020162111141021
 
Research
Study4
Iran
GENL
 
13221510151711121212102917162111151022
 
ResearchStudy4*
 DamascusSyria
GENL
1422161016171112111210281816
 
ResearchStudy3*
1 sample
Cyprus
GENL
 
1422161011121213102910
 
YHRDsample
Abazins(Russia)
X
 
14221610151711131029
 
ResearchStudy
1 sample
Turkey
MANY
 
14221610111212131030
 
                                       YHRD is a public database that contains many samples worldwide.  
                                       One research study from El-Haik and a lost citation.

More seeming P16 samples

                                                                                                                                     Marker designations in blue

Kit No.SurnameAncestral.origin
 
Haplo
Code
 
YSearch
Link
39339019
(394)
391385
a
385
b
426388439389
i
392389
ii
458459
a
459
b
455454447437448449464
a
464
b
464
c
464
d
464
e
464
f
460GATA
H4
YCA
IIa
YCA
IIb
456607576570CDY
a
CDY
b
442438531578395
S1a
395
S1b
590537641472406
S1
511425413
a
413
b
557594436490534450444481520446617568487572640492565441461463445452YGATA
A10
YGATA
H4.1
462GGAAT
1807
635
 
1 YHRD
sample
Ardon
N. Ossetia*
GENL
 
1423151015151112121029
 
1 YHRD
sample
Armenia*
GENL
 
1422161015151112121029
 
1 YHRD
sample
Georgia*
GENL
 
1422151015171112121029
 
1 YHRD
sample
Georgia*
GENL
 
1422151015181112121029
 
2 YHRD
samples
Abazinians
Georgia*
GENL
 
1422151015171112121029
 
3 YHRD
samples
Kabardinians
s.w. Russia*
GENL
 
1422151015171112121029
                                    YHRD is a public database that contains many samples worldwide.  Many seem to have come from studies by Nasidze.
               

Hungarian Roma samples

                                                                                                                                     Marker designations in blue
Kit No.SurnameAncestral.origin
 
Haplo
Code
 
YSearch
Link
39339019
(394)
391385
a
385
b
426388439389
i
392389
ii
458459
a
459
b
455454447437448449464
a
464
b
464
c
464
d
464
e
464
f
460GATA
H4
YCA
IIa
YCA
IIb
456607576570CDY
a
CDY
b
442438531578395
S1a
395
S1b
590537641472406
S1
511425413
a
413
b
557594436490534450444481520446617568487572640492565441461463445452YGATA
A10
YGATA
H4.1
462GGAAT
1807
635
 
1 YHRD
sample
Romani*
PART
 
1423151016161112111028111610
 
1 YHRD
sample
Tokaj(Romani)*
PART
 
1422161015181112121028121610
 
1 YHRD
sample
Platu(Romani)*
PART
 
1422161015181112121028121610
 
1 YHRD
sample
Romani*
PART
 
1422151015161112121029121610
 
1 YHRD
sample
Tisvaras Vari(Romani)*
PART
 
14231510141411121210.232111610
 
1 YHRD
sample
Tak Takoz(Romani)*
PART
 
1422151014141112121033111610
                                             
YHRD is a public database that contains many samples worldwide.    These were originally in the Volgyi study.

       More seeming P16 samples

                                                                                                                                     Marker designations in blue

Kit No.
SurnameAncestral.origin
 
Haplo
Code
 
YSearch
Link
39339019
(394)
391385
a
385
b
426388439389
i
392389
ii
458459
a
459
b
455454447437448449464
a
464
b
464
c
464
d
464
e
464
f
460GATA
H4
YCA
IIa
YCA
IIb
456607576570CDY
a
CDY
b
442438531578395
S1a
395
S1b
590537641472406
S1
511425413
a
413
b
557594436490534450444481520446617568487572640492565441461463445452YGATA
A10
YGATA
H4.1
462GGAAT
1807
635
 
YHRDsample*
 HrodnaBelarus
X
 
1422151015161112121028
 
 
1 YHRD
sample
Kabardinians
s.w. Russia*
GENL
 
1422151015161112121028
 
YHRDsample*
SmarhonBelarus
X
 
142215101516111211121028161110
 
 
YHRDsample*
AtlanticoColombia
X
 
142215101516111211121029181621111410
21
 
3 YHRD
samples
Kabardinians
s.w. Russia*
GENL
 
1423151015161112121029
 
YHRDsample*
N.Greece
X
 
142215101516111211121029171621111510
21
 
YHRDsample*
Orel s.w.Russia
X
 
142215101516111212121029161621111410
21
 
YHRDsample*
HispanicAmerican
X
 
142215101516111212121029181621111410
21
 
YHRDsample*
LiaoningChina [Xibe]
X
1422151015161112121210301610
 
 
YHRDsample*
LiaoningChina [Xibe]
X
1422151015171112121210301610
 
 
YHRDsample*
Iraqi Kurd
X
142215101516111212102\9
 
 
2 YHRD
samples
Georgia*
GENL
 
1422151015161112121029
 
2 YHRD
samples*
Costa Rica
X
13221510151511121029
                                            
YHRD is a public database that contains many samples worldwide.  

Others

                                                                                                                                     Marker designations in blue with corresponding marker values underneath each

Kit No.SurnameAncestral.origin
 
Haplo
Code
 
YSearch
Link
39339019
(394)
391385
a
385
b
426388439389
i
392389
ii
458459
a
459
b
455454447437448449464
a
464
b
464
c
464
d
464
e
464
f
460GATA
H4
YCA
IIa
YCA
IIb
456607576570CDY
a
CDY
b
442438531578395
S1a
395
S1b
590537641472406
S1
511425413
a
413
b
557594436490534450444481520446617568487572640492565441461463445452YGATA
A10
YGATA
H4.1
462GGAAT
1807
635
 
3 YHRD samples
Digora,Ossetia, Russia
GENL
1422151115161112111028
 
2 YHRD samples
Digora,Ossetia,
Russia
GENL
1423151115161112111028
                        YHRD is a public database that contains many samples worldwide.  These seem to have come from the Nasidze study (see above)


The following in the general P16/P18 subgroup (not in subgroups) have the following results
for newer, poorly defined SNP mutations:   
                                                                                                        + means positive, - means negative
 
L31+ Gursel
L72- Gursel
L139- Gursel
L293+ German, Guguchia, Uzdenov

The following DYS438=9 & DYS391=9 subgroup men have the following results
for newer, poorly defined SNP mutations: 
                                                                                                         + means positive, - means negative
L142+ Berezov
L149+ Berezov
L156+ Berezov
L293+ Berezov

The following DYS511=9 subgroup men have the following results
for newer, poorly defined SNP mutations: 
                                                                                                         + means positive, - means negative
L142+ Moody
L190- Moody
L293+ Khalilov, Moody

                               more info about these SNPs can be found at:
                               http://ybrowse.isogg.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/
                               type L1325, for example, in the Landmark box.  After searching, look
                               for the small L1325 in the colored area and click on it.
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