This is the home page for men proven L1323+ or predicted so. So far the typical
marker values of L1323-- combined with typical ancestral background -- are solid
predictors of L1323 status.
L1323 also includes a small subgroup of men who share an unusual 13 value
at the DYS392 marker, a marker which seldom changes values. Virtually all
other men in this branch of the G tree have a value of 12.
The 13-17 value at marker DYS385 or something quite close to this is the most
distinctive feature of the L1323 subgroup. Both the Kuwaitis and Jewish men
within the mother group to L1323 have DYS385=14-15. These values can change
at any time. So the SNP L1323 is far superior to unreliable marker values for use
in defining the L1323 subgroup.
L1323 is the most recent branch of a series of branches. The next most recent
was L1324 which includes more persons than L201. Information about the
overall L1324 group can be found to the left in the G-L1324 tab. Even earlier
was the M342 branch which incorporates all men
designated as G1. See G-M342. Finally the oldest is the M201 mutation
which encompasses all men within haplogroup G. See G-M201.
Composition of the L1323 Subgroup
So far all the members of the L1323 subgroup seem to share a common ancestral
history, specifically last-known origins in Kazakhstan. A correspondent indicates
that a high percentage of the L1323 men in the G Project belong to the
Argyn tribal group.
Although not knowing they are likely L1323 men, Biro and others in a specialized study
in 2009 gave this summary of their sampled men who are very likely L1323:
"The Madjar people live in the Torgay area of Kazakhstan. According to their
limited written and oral history, they settled around Lake Sarikopa .300–400
years ago, most probably arriving from the Karatau region to the south-east,
which now lies in Zhambul county of South Kazakhstan." It is unclear presently
where the Torgay area is located, but the cities associated with it seem to be to
the south of Kostanay. This group sampled is a tiny part of the Kazakh
Samples were collected from the villages of Saga, Koezbel, Kumshiq, Bidayik,
Taush, Ashutasti, Aythuar settlement, and Altinsarin, and from towns close to the
Torgay area, Amangeldi, Arkaliq, and Oktyabrsk, where recent emigrant Madjars live.
Is this study 39 of 45 men sampled (87%) had marker values similar to those of the
L1323 men in the G Project and were confirmed as having the mutation
which defines G1.
They tried to establish in this article that the Madjars are related to the similarly-
sounding Magyars of Hungary. Their argument is that the Madyar branch on
a multi-population survey was rooted in the phylogenetic chart near the Magyars.
But the branch shown is unusually long, and G1 has no visible presence in
Hungary and the numbers of markers used to make this calculation were few in
number. So the relationship is not proven.
In a map made in 2002 which included percentages of haplogroups in various
countries, haplogroup G was listed as having only a small percentage of G in
Kazakhstan. In that study, they sampled Ughurs at Almaty and Lavar, as well
as Kazakhs in Almaty, Katon-Karagay, Karatutuk, Rachmanovsky and Kluchi.
Among the men in the DYS392=13 subgroup, several were identified in that study
and were from the mentioned Torgay area of Kazakhstan. The only DYS392=12 man
in the G project providing information indicates an ancestral home near Kostanay
in the north of the country perhaps in or just north of Torgay.
The Age of the L1323 Subgroup
Within L1324, the sister subgroups to out L1323 are closer in marker values to each
other than to L1323. The common ancestor that L1323 shares with its sister
L1324 Kuwaiti and Jewish subgroups lived more than 5,000 years ago.
The marker value comparisons at such a difference are too imprecise to allow
precise dating. Whole Y-DNA sequencing within these subgroups will allow
a more precise calculation. Within the L1323 subgroup itself when comparing
67 markers, the highest number of value differences is 11. This suggests the
common L1323 ancestor lived perhaps 2000-3000 years ago. This is just the
comparison of the men in available samples. There may or may not be
an earlier branching off of the L1323 grouping that occurred for which we do no have
any samples. And it is also just as possible that the ancestors in the L1323
grouping simply lived as a small family grouping for thousands of years after the
branching from the common ancestor with the Kuwaitis and Jews. In this latter
case, other L1323 branching may not have occurred.
The DYS392=13 subgroup does not have enough samples available to give an
accurate estimate of its age. The samples that are available likely share a
common ancestor during the late Middle Ages or later.
Maps for the L1323 Subgroup
This subgroup is too new for maps to have appeared in research studies under the
L1323 name. The G SNP subgroups have their own maps.
Look at top left of map and choose the L1323 subgroup.
Origin of the L1323 Subgroup
It would be speculative to try to pinpoint migrations of the L1323 subgroup
until recent times. Full Y sequencing will provide more accurate time
estimates. Since the concentration of haplogroup G today seems to be in the
Near East, including Iran, there is some likelihood that a migration took
place from there toward Kazahkstan at some undetermined point in time.
There have never been any publications specifically looking at L1323 men in
The study by Biro and others in 2009 that included men with L1323 marker
values is found at:
Rootsi and others in 2012 provided 4 Kazakh samples in their supplement
whose marker values samples seen in the G Project. They are DYS388=12 men.
Zerjal and others in 2002 found only a small percentage of G among
Kazakhs of Kazakhstan:
[Haplogroup G was then included in a predecessor category]
TABLE 1. Haplotype and haplogroup analysis of the Madjar population from the Biro study
No DYS391 DYS389I DYS439 DYS389II DYS438 DYS437 DYS19 DYS392 DYS393 DYS390 DYS385 n Haplogroup
2 11 13 12 28 10 16 13 12 13 23 13/17 24 G1/-P20
3 11 14 12 29 10 16 13 12 13 23 14/17 2 G1/-P20
4 11 14 12 29 10 16 13 13 13 23 13/17 4 G1/-P20
5 11 14 12 29 10 16 13 13 13 23 13/18 1 G1/-P20
6 11 14 13 29 10 16 13 12 13 23 13/17 3 G1/-P20
7 11 15 12 30 10 16 13 12 13 23 13/17 1 G1/-P20
8 12 14 12 29 10 16 13 12 13 23 13/17 4 G1/-P20
The following L1323 men or predicted L1323 men have the following results
for newer, poorly defined G SNP mutations: [results may be from varied labs]
+ means positive, - means negative
L1323+ Atanov, Kenzhebulatov, Naimanov, Ualee, Yerlan, Zarapov
L1326+ Mukanov, Naimanov
L1326- Kenzhebulatov, Mukanov, Ualee, Yesov, Zarapov
The following DYS392=13 subgroup men have the following results
for newer, poorly defined SNP mutations:
+ means positive, - means negative
more info about these SNPs can be found at:
type L1325, for example, in the Landmark box. After searching, look
for the small L1325 in the colored area and click on it.