Get me down to the bottom!

Posted by: Delte Oct 19 2007, 02:54 AM

You know what they say...yep, they're saying it...you're not kwel if you don't read Delte's Thread.

You wanna be kwel, don't cha?

Well, don't cha?

And, just think how kwel you'd be if you were "up" on all the latest issues of the Thread.

I'm talking really kwel.

Massively kwel.

Heck, Evel Knievel ain't this kwel, and if he were, he'd jump on over to either http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=760367 http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=764109 http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=765304 or http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=766112



Posted by: Delte Oct 19 2007, 02:55 AM

...DELTE'S THREAD OF IMMERSION MODS...



This thread is meant as a place for realism lovers to stop in from their journey, shake off the road dust, put their feet up, share an ale, and discuss their favorite realism mods. thumbsup.gif Please, feel free to discuss any mod you enjoy as an immersionist. But, if you post about a suggested mod, please provide a link! That little extra effort will go a long way to making this thread useful to others looking to make their game more immersive.



Among these pages, you will find DELTE's LIST. This is a growing collection of the specific realism mods I use in my own game. Each of these mods has been thoroughly play-tested, not only for bugs, but for compatibility with the other mods on the list. Unlike other mod recommendation lists, what you will find on Delte's List is my best recommendation for a mod of a particular type. You will not see recommendations for multiple mods that perform the same function. The mods that make it to Delte's List are the creme of the crop.

That said, I will also say that a man's mod list is personal. Ask ten different people about their top ten mods, and you'll get ten lists all describing different mods with a little overlap. You may agree or disagree with what I've picked as the "very best mod" of a particular type. Never lose sight of the fact that you are playing YOUR game. Customize YOUR game to YOUR tastes. But, also know that each mod on Delte's List is a mod that has been play-tested for its fullest potential.

Delte's List is still growing. It takes time to fully test mods. As I reach a decision on a mod, I will update the list. Check back from time to time. Not only will you see new additions to Delte's List, but you'll also find many excellent recommendations by this thread's readers.











...THE FOUR CORE IMMERSION MODS...




http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=6430 is the absolute best bedroll mod I've seen. It's simple, easy to use, and it allows you to either steal a bedroll from a wilderness camp or sleep space in a dungeon or purchase one from a merchant. Excellent mod. And, it's very necessary when you need to grab a few hours of sleep after you're character has been stuck in a deep dark dungeon for two-plus days.



http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3816 Why do you need a bedroll? Not just to be able to level up quickly, right? It's because this mod will make you sleepy after several hours out there adventuring around. Unlike many other mods of this type, this one allows you to push yourself. You're not forced to sleep everyday. Your character just gets groggy and less effective the longer he goes without sleep. As in real life, you'll be weaker and less effective in combat if you're running on no sleep. The mod temporarily effects your stats. Once you get some sleep, your stats will improve. If you don't have time to sleep very long, then just grab a couple of hours. It will help. It'll get you through until you can capture some more ZZZ's later. This mod works perfectly with the other four mentioned here.



http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=10798 This is an excellent, simple mod that allows you to eat most items from the Oblivion game world. It doesn't take a lot of time, either. There's no messing around with cooking procedures that take zero game-time. When your character gets hungry, simply click on a food item in your inventory. What I like so much about Thingamajig's update of Dominic's mod is that he took out the "Food Units Required" message that would pop up, telling the player exactly how many units of food to eat (although this information is still available, for those who want to know, via the character stat screen). What this mod does is simply tell the player that the character is hungry. The player selects what the character will eat. If it's not enough, a message will pop up telling the player that the character is still hungry. If it is enough, the message will state that the character is full. Also, calories count. So, the more you eat, the longer it will be until you're hungry again. If you eat a couple of carrots and an apple, you'll be hungry again faster than you will if you eat a steak, a potato, lettuce and tomato, with bread and a sweetroll for dessert. And, as a bonus, I've discovered that you can make potions from food that will serve as a meal replacement! That's right! Just fire up your alchemy bench. Select some food...poof! You've got a V8 drink you can take with you on your forays out into the world. Plus, with the fatigue mod, weight will always be an issue for you. Making these drinks will cut down on the weight of the food you carry, not unlike a ration bar! (Vanilla Oblivion sets potion weight at 0.5 pounds. If you're using OOO, you'll see that most of your potions--including these--will be 0.3 pounds, give or take. I've noticed the weight of the potion depends on what foods are used!) RH 1.4 is dependent on MMM (because it includes new foodstuffs from MMM). If you are not an MMM user, Doomguy has made a version of the mod that can be used without the MMM requirement: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13479.



http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=10925 This is a brilliant mod. The more weight you carry, the less energy you'll have to run...the less energy you'll have to fight. It's scaled, too. So, unlike vanilla Oblivion, where your character is carrying 399 pounds of equipment against his 400 pound limit and not suffering a penalty, but then he can't move because he picked up a 2 pound dagger, this mod applies penalties gradually. It also snowballs. At first, your fatigue hits are un-noticable. But, as you pick up more and more weight, the penalties become bigger and bigger. At the lowest character levels, this fatigue mod is harsh. Players will really have to watch their weight and their exertion. But, just like everything else, as the character levels up, fatigue becomes less and less an issue. By the time the character is past 10th level, he'll be able to sprint for quite a distance, with a fairly heavy load, before he has to stop and catch his breath. This mod will make fatigue potions and fatigue replacing spells very important to you (when was the last time that happened in your game?). You'll find little tricks: like throwing a fatigue spell as you run, wearing a Ring of Feather to lighten your load, riding your horse instead of walking, only running when absolutely necessary, and when you do, you'll sprint for short distances. The best part of this mod? It's the blurred vision and gasping-for-air sounds you'll hear when your character's fatigue is low. If you push yourself too far, you just might collapse!







A note on Timescale...

If you're going to start using these realism mods, I also suggest you adjust your game's timescale. What is "timescale"? It's the rate at which time passes in your game. The default timescale setting in Oblivion is 30. That means that one real minute passing equals 30 minutes in the game.

If you use these realism mods on the vanilla timescale setting, you're going to be eating and needing to sleep all the time. It will become "no fun" quickly. What you need to do is slow down the time in your game. Many Oblivion players do this anyway, without using realism mods. It just makes for a better, more enjoyable game. If you do business with two merchants, a whole gameday hasn't passed (as it will in vanilla Oblivion). Francesco's mod, even, comes with an optional plugin that allows you to adjust your game's timescale.

Most gamers who adjust the timescale in their games will adjust it to a timescale of 10 to 15. A timescale of 12 is not uncommon at all. A timescale of 10, for example, means the game will run two thirds slower than vanilla Oblivion. A timescale of 15 means that the game will run half as fast as vanilla.

How do you adjust timescale? Well, there's a console command that will allow you to change your game's timescale (and this is a nice option to speed up time when you're waiting in the game too). But, the problem with the console command is that your timescale will only be altered during that game session. When you re-load your save, your game will automatically reset to the default timescale 30 setting.

This is where mods come in. There are several mods out there that you can get to adjust your timescale. Once you set them, you never have to worry about adjusting your timescale again.

The one I currently use is the http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2615. This places a ring on the right hand pylon of the pier you see as you come out of the tutorial sewers at the beginning of the game. All you have to do is pick it up and place it in your inventory. When you equip it, you'll see a menu, allowing you to change your game's timescale. Set it one time, then forget about it. The ring isn't marked as a quest item, so you can easily drop it or store it somewhere if you don't ever want to use it again.

As I mention above, I suggest a timescale of 10, 12, or 15. Many people agree that those are the best choices. I personally use a timescale of 10 in my game.











...THE BIG IMMERSION MODS...




Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul This should be the starting point for any realism player. OOO does so much to tilt your game towards realism that I'd have to take pages and pages to explain it all. Besides, much of the fun of OOO is just discovering it by yourself. Once you load it, you won't see much of a change at first. But, then, you'll notice things...was that always like that...or is it part of OOO? "I don't know," you'll say to yourself, "but it's cool!" This mod won the http://goty.gamespy.com/2006/pc/index15.html award in 2006, and to quote that review: " Playing Oblivion before and after installing OOO is a night-and-day experience." I completely agree. I was so tired of advancing a couple of levels, then looking around at the bandits, and all of the bandits are magically wearing ebony and daedric armor. Where were these guys when I was 3rd level? Well, OOO changes all that. OOO makes for a more immersive, realistic world. This is a highly recommended mod, and I haven't provided a link because updates are coming out all the time (and, I'm sure, you already know where to get the latest version). Hot-fixes for OOO, until the new version is released, can be found http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13053



Martigen's Monster Mod In my view, MMM is the necessary companion to OOO. Where OOO makes for a more realistic, immersive world, MMM makes that world even more real by adding variety. And, isn't variety the spice of life? I haven't provided a link to this one as well because CorePC is hard at work delivering updates all the time. (I'm sure you know where to get the latest version of this mod, too.) For those of you curious about optimal load order when using MMM, review CorePC's remarks in post #180 of http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=764109&st=160&gopid=11101145&#entry11101145 thread.







A note on MMM Options...

MMM is completely customizable. Here are the customizations I recommend. (If you don't see an MMM plugin listed here, it's either a plugin that I don't recommend and have no comment about, or it's a newer plugin that has been released with a newer version of MMM...and I haven't had time to update this list.)

MMM Additional Enemy Vars. This will add variations in the enemies you face, tilting your game more towards reality and variety.

MMM Bats Addon. This will add bats to your game.

MMM City Defenses. Among other things, this addon will put archers on the battlements of the cities. When beasties get close, the bows start a-twangin'.

MMM Diverse Creature Skins. This plugin will provide variety in how creatures look. Not all imps will look the same way. Some will be black. Some will be red. Some will look as they do in the vanilla game. Etc.

MMM Diverse Imperial Armor. This plugin will change the armor worn by the Imperial Legion. Note that I do not recommend this plugin if you are using OOO. The reason is that OOO already changes Imperial Armor. Since MMM is loaded after OOO, MMM's armor types will take precedence. I prefer the OOO changes. You might want to try both to see which you prefer.

MMM Durability & Damage. It is recommended that you not use this plugin with OOO, as OOO already has durability and damage adjustments included in that mod. If you use this plugin, the MMM version will be used instead. I use the OOO version in my game.

MMM Friendlier Factions. I don't use this plugin in my game, but another realism player might want to use it. What it does is make factions (types of NPCs and creatures) less aggressive towards each other, so you're less likely to stumble upon fights among NPCs and creature combatants. I don't recommend this plugin to realism players because I find it much more realistic to wander into a fight for which my character has no part. It adds to the illusion that your character is not the center of the universe. Other people get into disagreements whether you're around or not. Creatures attack NPCs whether you're there to watch it or not. It will raise the hair on the back of your neck, I'll tell you, when you stumble upon the aftermath of such a battle. You'll find carcasses slumped everywhere, and you'll start wondering, "What the hell did this?"

MMM Gems & Gem Dust. This is highly recommended for the alchemy lovers out there. Gems have special properties. Crush one up with a mortar and pestle and find out!

MMM Hunting & Crafting. Kill a deer. Take its skin. Tan the hide. Use that leather to make armor. Throw in some bones or pieces of metal, and you have studded leather. Or... Find a bone. Make some arrow shafts. Find a feather. Make some flights. Kill an ogre. Pull out his teeth. Carve arrowheads from those teeth. Put your parts together, and be pleased with yourself as you have one bad-arsed arrow that does some heafty damage. I highly recommend this plugin.

MMM Less Bone Loot. I recommend this plugin for the realism player in that it limits the amount of useful bones you'll find on downed enemies. Without this plugin, the Hunting & Crafting plugin above becomes too easy (leading to the game becoming unbalanced). Using this Less Bone Loot plugin makes your discoveries of useful materials "just right", in my opinion.

MMM Looting NPCs & Creatures. Using this plugin, you'll see others loot bodies. If you get to the carcass after they do, there might not be anything of value left for you. It depends on what the looting NPC or creature wanted. If you find a creature or NPC has taken something you want, well, kill him! Then loot his corpse. He'll have what he took on him!

MMM No Giants. This is strictly a preference of mine. I don't think the giants in MMM are implemented well. They're just big humans. Sometimes, they wear dwarven armor. "Now, what dwarven smith," I say to myself, "made a suit of armor that large?" Giants, at best, should be in some type of hide armor. I'm a realism player, and it breaks my immersion to see giants with equipment that would not be possible for them to have. So, I do not recommend playing with giants in your game.

MMM Resized Races. This nifty plugin will resize the races. You'll see bigger, more intimidating orcs. Altmer are tall and thin. Nords are bigger and stockier than Imperials. Wood elves are small and slightly bigger than halflings. Etc.

MMM Vindasel. Vindasel is an Ayleid ruin and location of a special quest. This plugin keeps MMM random beasties from spawning there. I recommend using this plugin.

MMM Creatures Addon. More, and more varied, creatures? Absolutely!







A note on MMM Travel Plugins...

MMM Spawn Rates Reduced, Reduced and MMM Safer Roads. These two are highly, highly recommended plugins for the realism player. I don't find it realistic at all to stumble into a battle every time I crest a hill. These two plugins go a long way towards making your journeys more realistic. Using the two, you'll sometimes be able to make a trek to another town, on foot, without having a single encounter (although you may see some beasties off the road that may not see you). Then again, sometimes you'll stumble into a goblin war party. It just depends...kinda like real life! If you want to battle miscellaneous creatures every time you hit the roads, then don't use these plugins. If you do want a more realistic world where the roads are still a bit dangerous but not to the point where civilians can't get from one town to the next, then follow my recommendation and use these two plugins.

MMM More Wilderness Life. Although the MMM readme highly recommends this plugin, I do not. What this plugin does is simply add more spawn points to the wilderness. As I describe above, it's more of a realistic experience to be able to go out into the wood and not get automatically attacked. Not using this plugin, but using the two plugins above, will keep your wilderness journeys more immersive. Sometimes you'll get attacked, and sometimes you won't.











...THE IMMERSIVE WORLD AROUND YOU...




http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=OblivionMods.Detail&id=36186&id=3443 This is an excellent mod by a very talented modder. This mod will add weight to vanilla Oblivion's "magically weightless" gold. The mod comes with an in-game menu that you can use to adjust weight of each Septim to your taste. For example, you might set each Septim to weigh 0.01 pounds. So, every 100 coins you carry will add another pound to your weight total. (I recommend using a weight of 0.01 pounds per coin, and I base this on a Google search of coins used in Medieval Europe.) If you're using the highly recommended http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=10925 mod, weight will always be a concern (as it is in real life). So, you'll need to store your gold reserves in other places. This mod treats gold much the way arrows are treated in the vanilla game. You click on the coin in your inventory, and a slider menu pops up, asking you how many coins you would like to transfer. You can transfer gold to sacks or chests or crates (Make sure it's a non-respawning container if you do this! If you're using OOO, you'll have access to a few non-respawning containers that are not available in the vanilla game.). You can transfer gold to companion inventories (For example, you can have Ruined Tail carry some of your gold for you.) When you buy and sell with merchants, you'll see your gold weight change. If you want to drop Septims on the ground, you can do this, too. The slider will ask you how many coins you wish to drop. When you're done, you'll find coins on the ground at your feet. In the in-game menu, you can set what each gold coin you drop is worth. For example, if you want to drop a single gold coin of a value of 1 Septim, you can do that. Be careful, though. If you drop a lot of new items into the game world (like anything else), you may experience lag issues. A better idea might be to set each coin with a value of 100 Septims or so. This way, if you drop 437 coins, you'll see five Septims at your feet: There will be four coins with a value of 100 Septims and one with a value of 37. I highly, highly recommend this mod. It's perfect for realism players.



http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=5629 Is a neat little mod that will simply make gold coins look better in your game. Sometimes, you'll see them from a distance if the torch-light glints off of them just right.



http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3172 This mod will give you a place to store your gold. Since you're using the http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=10925 and the http://forums.spellholdstudios.net/index.php?automodule=downloads&showfile=444, you can't go around carrying thousands and thousands of gold coins with you. I mean, you're a realism player, after all, right? If you store your gold coins in someone else's chest, well, someone else just might steal your loot (referring to the respawning containers in the game). What are you going to do with all those coins? You're going to put it into Cyrodiil's bank! The mod will put a new building in the Market District of the Imperial City. Here, you can rent chests (non-respawning, saftey-deposit-box-like, containers) in which to store not only your gold but any other items you wish to keep and not carry on your person. You can open an account with the bank. The bank will charge you a fee for this. Once your account is open, you can deposit and withdraw funds, but there will be a 2 percent fee for each transaction you do with the bank. While your money is in the bank, you will earn interest! If you wish to retrieve your money while you're away from the Imperial City, just visit the associated merchant in the nearest town. You can do all of your banking transactions there as well. If you're a thief, you just might consider a trip to Imperial City to see just want others are keeping inside all those tempting chests in the bank vault....



http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=9357 Speaking of vaults...well, this mod will place vaults inside all the major castles in the game. This adds to the illusion that Cyrodill is a real place with a real economy. That's all I'm going to tell you about it. If you're a thief, well, get to thieving!



http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4805 This mod will lend to the illusion that Cyrodiil is a living, breathing place. It puts a few travelers and merchants on the roads, bringing the reality of messengers being sent to and fro; merchants bringing wares to fill up stock on other cities; bank records being transferred from one of the bank's locations to the next. This is the best version of CR that has yet been developed. Earlier versions placed too many travellers on the roads. It would lag a game down. And, too often, one would come across another dead merchant that some beastie or bandit had killed. This version is much improved over the others. You'll see some travellers on the roads, but not all the time. Sometimes, you'll see one. Sometimes, you'll see a group. Sometimes, the travellers will run, but most of the time, they'll walk. Every once in a while, you'll see one on horseback. The best part about this mod is that it's not just the guards, the bandits, and you out on the roads anymore. Other people use the roads, too! When you play the Anvil Mages Guild quest that focuses on merchants traveling the roads, this mod will keep you from thinking, "What merchants are they talking about? I haven't seen any merchants."



http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4432 If you've got OOO, then you've also got this mod (as it comes as an option in the OOO download). Living Economy is a "must have" mod. Where some of the other mods I've mentioned here lend themselves to the illusion of Cyrodiil having a real economy, this mod takes the illusion one step further. I won't go into everything this mod does. Suffice it to say that every realism player should have it. The mod comes with some options as well. I highly recommend that the Living Economy-Items and the Cut Throat Merchants plugins be used to ensure the highest level of immersion in your game world is achieved.



http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=12367 Isn't it crazy how, in vanilla Oblivion, it's not that hard at all to get NPCs disposition towards you to the 80's, 90's, or even at 100, in no time flat? Are you that good of a guy?. Well, this mod changes all that. Gone is the silly mini-game. Instead, now you have to roleplay what you say to the NPC. If it's a woman, and your character is male, well, admiring her might work for you. If you're in a bar sharing an ale with a tough orc mercenary, you might want to try a joke or maybe boast about your previous accomplishments. The type of character YOU are effects modifiers on your chance to change an NPC's disposition. Thus, if you're a thief, and the NPC can tell you're a thief (probably by the way you look), then you'll have negative modifiers on your disposition improvement chance when you are speaking to a church elder. On the other hand, your thief character will, most likely, get along very well with other thieves (as long as he hasn't done anything to make them not like him). This is a "must have" mod for the immersionist, and Strategy Master has done a superb job in updating Parsons' orignal work. One of the biggest effects of this mod is that it actually makes your Personality stat meaningful. You will no longer automatically sell Potions of Chrisma, charm spells, and magical items that boost your Personality stat. Those items will be important to you as you'll need them to influence others and get what you want (for the price you want).







A note on obtaining wealth...

These mods, in conjuntion, will go a long way to making Cyrodiil a place in which to live, not just game. OOO, the fatigue mod, the Persuaion Overhaul, the bank, Living Economy, and gold weight will all work together to make your game a much more realistic experience. Gone is the huge, unrealistic influx of gold that you get in the vanilla game. With these mods, you'll have to pick and choose your treasure. As in real life, you'll be looking for light, easy-to-carry valuables. You'll think twice before you pick up that heavy silver two-handed hammer to drag back to the merchants in order to catch a few coins. Gone are the days that you'll be able to clean out every single item from a dungeon. You won't be able to carry it all. When you do business, you'll favor some merchants over others. Sometimes, when you sell something, you'll find it available through another merchant in another town. You'll have to pick and choose your large purchases, because you won't have enough gold to do it all. When you want to buy a house, you'll have to save (and this may take you an entire character level of saving to get what you want). And, you'll hardly ever get top dollar for whatever it is you're selling. Like real life, the better your skills in this area, the better salesman you'll become. These mods make your Mercantile and Speechcraft skills IMPORTANT!. Now, with these mods, being an Imperial character is very, very attractive, because, more than likely, your Imperial will become wealthier quicker than a character of a different race.











...YOU AND YOUR IMMERSIVE FIGHTER...




http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=9333 Like many mods listed in Delte's List, this is one of those that you just want to ask yourself, "Why wasn't this included in the vanilla game?" As it stands in vanilla Oblivion, if you nock an arrow with your bow, you have to fire the sucker. Well, Scruggs has made a simple yet brilliant (and in my opinion, necessary) mod that allows you to simply ease the string back on your bow and slip the arrow back into your quiver. No more firing straight into the ground when you decide not to let loose! All you have to do now is hit your "grab" key while an arrow is nocked. Touch the grab key, and your arrow will go back into your quiver. The mod even provides animation! You'll see your arms quickly move to replace the arrow when you denock!











...YOU AND YOUR IMMERSIVE MAGE...












...YOU AND YOUR IMMERSIVE THIEF...




http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=9730 Tired of the sneak eye glowing bright when an NPC has spotted you? It's an immersion breaker, right? Always seemed like a cheat? Well, get rid of that sucker! There are no guarrantees in sneaking. You don't know if anybody is paying attention to you or not. The sneak eye in the game is just another of the hand-holding measures (like Fast Travel from any point and the GPS Quest Arrow) that Bethesda has included for impatient gamers. We realism players do not need crutches like that, do we? Heck no! We don't! That's where this simple little mod comes in. Just drop it into your game, and it will turn the textures on your sneak eye invisible. It's really still there. You just can't see it. Wa-laaa. No more sneak hand holding! This is a "must" for true immersionists.



http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4065 I'm only going to recommend this mod for mature gamers. This is the type of mod that can unbalance your game in no time flat. This is a powerful item to bring to your game world, so do so with care and respect. You don't want to be a munchkin gamer, do you? That said, this mod can also bring a nice reward to your game--the same game that you've modded with the fatigue mod, gold weight mod, torch weight mod, and other realism modifications. This is a fabulous magic item to one day happen upon while you're out exploring. It's akin to finding the Skeleton Key. Here's my best advice for using this mod in your game: Download the mod; place the esp and bsa files in your Data folder; and, under no circumstances read the section in the readme that tells you where the bag is located. Once you've loaded the mod, just forget about it. I was disciplined when I loaded it. I had no idea where it was. I could have gone hours and hours, levels and levels, gaming, and never have found it. As it turns out, I found the bag around level 7, but I couldn't get to it. Knowing where it was, I came back 8 character levels later to grab it and nearly died in the process. It took me 147 game hours before I had the bag in my character's hands. And, it felt like I had just won the Olympics. It was amazing. What a reward! Do yourself a favor and place the bag into your game the same way I did. Don't read where it is located. Don't use the console command to have the bag magically appear in your inventory. Just let this be one of those things that you happen to discover while out adventuring in the big, wide world of Cyrodiil. You'll be glad you did. I wish the mod came with a method for random placement for the bag so that I could use it in future games with different characters.



http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3830 I can only recommend half of this mod. The download comes with two esp files. One will put ladders on some cities, allowing you to climb over the walls instead of go through the front gates. The other sticks alternate entrances into some of the cities, usually via a secret cave. I don't recommend the ladders because it isn't immersive. Guards would see you climbing over the walls, wouldn't they? And, with MMM's City Defenses plugin that puts guards walking the city battlements, the ladders part of this mod is out of the question. If the guards are going to see you anyway, why not just walk in through the front gates? And, the guards would stumble upon the ladder sometime, wouldn't they? They'd eventually get rid of it. I mean, it's not secret--it's draped across the wall out in the open. The other esp, though, is a nice little mod. Not all of the cities come with a special entrance. Some do. Some don't. My recommendation is to only use the Stealth Entrances.esp, and I'll recommend you go one step further...DON'T READ THE SECTION OF THE README THAT TELLS YOU WHICH CITIES ACTUALLY HAVE STEALTH ENTRANCES!!!! Just put the mod in your game, then forget about it. Discover the hidden entrances on your own. They're not extremely hard to find. In fact, you'll probably find them pretty quickly. But, respect your immersive play and use this mod as a neat "discovery" while you play the game. You'll enjoy what this mod has to offer so much more if you are disciplined that way.



http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=6359 OOO users know that many guard, security, chest, and stealth tweaks come bundled in that wonderful uber-mod. JOG's Stealth Overhaul takes those tweaks one step further. Various factors, such as weapon weight (speed) and length (reach) now determine a weapon's backstab multiplier. Character skill and natural ability now affect all aspects of stealth. Heavy armor (not just your boots, as in vanilla!), all clinking and clanking, is much harder to sneak around in, while light armor receives a lighter penalty too (unlike vanilla). And, wearing no armor at all provides a sneak bonus. Daggers can now be used to backstab with a x32 multiplier, simulating the cutting a victim's throat. And, all of these settings are customizable in the mod. Simply set them to your tastes. Now, quick keys are added (uses different keys than the standard quick keys) that will allow you to rapidly alter your character's set-up. For example, you could set one quick key to configure the character to wear particular armor, sword, and shield. Another quick key might provide a bow configuration. Yet a third quick key might arm the character with a staff. I find these quick keys non-immersive, and thus I don't use them. But, I do use the two penalty buttons that come with the mod. You can set two keys on your keyboard that, when selected, will show you your current backstab multiplier with a particular weapon. I figure a good thief would know how useful a long sword would be versus a dagger (and, as I've alluded to above, the dagger will most likely be the better choice--as it would be in real life). A second key will tell you your stealth penalties. Again, I figure a good thief will know that his shield sounds when the leather strap rubs across the shield's cymbal-like surface, hindering the thief as he's trying to sneak. This is a great mod. Perfect for thieves. You'll want to load it after OOO to allow this mod to take precedence.











...THE IMMERSIVE WAY IN WHICH YOU LIVE...




http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4666 This excellent mod will remove all those wooden doors you see providing entrances to the various caves and mines that dot the landscape of Cyrodiil. Now, you will see pitch black dark cave entrances--simple dark holes in the rock. There are two versions of the mod. One makes the door texture transparent, so that you can't see it. It's still there, though, and when you approach a cave, you activate it like you would if you could see the door. I don't use that version. What I like is the more immersive automatic version. As you approach the cave entrance (try to stay to your right), when you get close enough, you'll automatically enter the cave as if you had just walked in. No activation required. The same thing happens when you exit (try to stay to your left). Just approach the mouth of the cave and you will automatically exit. I give this mod my highest rating. It's superb.



http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8802 The immersive player wants his deep dark holes to be dark, dark, correct? This mod does it. Some caves are brighter than others, depending on light sources. There will be times, though, that you'll be deep down in an ancient Ayleid ruin, where you can't see anything--not even the weapon you are holding. I'm talking pitch [censored] black! Be sure to adjust your monitor correctly. Don't lighten your screen using the brightness, contrast, or gamma controls. All you need to do is bring a torch! This mod comes with two esps, one of which applies the mod to the Shivering Isles!



http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13448 With the night-sky and dark dungeon mods, there are times that I cannot see my character's hands and weapons in front of him because my character happens to be in a place that is absolutely light-less. These times require a light source. I've used several different torch mods since I've been modding Oblivion, but I had never found one with the right amount of brilliance. This is where StarX jumped in. He took Frugal's original Drop Lit Torches mod, tweaked the light so that it is bright at its source but rapidly declines as the viewer retreats, then added weight to the item. Being a realism player, I wanted my torches to actually weigh something. The result of StarX's tweaking is the best torch mod I've ever used. It's down right perfect. This mod provides a more brilliant torch, with a wider radius, incorporating weight to the item (and the results of a net search of torches used in Medieval Europe were used to determine the weight), retaining the "dropping" ability of the original mod. Now, OOO includes its own special version of DLT, so if you're using OOO (as I am), just load this mod after OOO, and you shouldn't have any problems.



http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11474 This is a "must" for immersionists who own the official Bethesda plugins. And, kudos to Strategy Master for another masterful mod. What this mod does is make you chance upon the information about the official Bethesda plugins (all but the new Fighter's Stronghold...but I'll bet Strategy Master updates his mod to include that one) in an organic way. Gone are the jarring quests that automatically pop up telling you that you have an inheritance from a long lost relative (how lame is that?) when you load the plugins. Now, with this mod, you will find out about the different plugins in the course of your adventures. You'll find them like you do normal quests. MY BEST ADVICE with mods like this is to REFRAIN FROM READING THE SECTION IN THE README where you are told how to obtain the quests. I mean, if you're going to do that, then why are you using this mod in the first place? Why not just go with the lame-o Bethesda long-lost-relative routine and have access to the plugin right from the get-go? Immersionists want to game and find things like this through the game. They want to delight in discovery. So, do yourself a big favor, and just load the plugins before forgetting about them. Just forget they're in your game. When you happen upon something in-the-game that will lead you to the plugin, you'll enjoy it ten times more. Now, this mod is best used with a new game, but a new game is not necessary to use the mod. Instructions are provided in the readme for loading this this mod during a current game. That's the way I did it (and I'm so glad I now have this mod). The mod is also modular. You only need to load the esps that are appropriate to the official plugins that you own.











...YOU AND YOUR IMMERSIVE MACHINE...




http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4109 II is an excellent, extremely easy to use, mod that will remove the clutter from your HUD, making your actual view of the game world that much more immersive. Take a look at this http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc84/KodaChrome_Me/ScreenShot15-2.jpg from my game. Where are all the HUD elements? Well, only the necessary ones remain. If you look hard, you'll see that the crosshair is still there, but subdued. Down at the bottom left of the screen, my current selected weapon is pictured. Below it is a ribbon that tells me, at a glance, the weapon's condition. Next to it is my current selected spell. And, that's it. That's all I need. The rest of the HUD has been stripped bare of anything that would interfere with my immersive play. I've got the compass disabled (You can choose not to disable the compass), but I can still view it if I open my inventory screen--which simulates the character having to pull a compass from his pocket in order to view it. The ribbons showing Health, Fatigue, and Magicka only appear if they drop significantly. Otherwise, you're not bothered with them for slight drops that are rapidly replenished. Once you've installed the Immersive Interface, you can re-adjust your setting simply by running the mod again (just double click on the .exe file in your Oblivion folder). The mod is highly customizable. Once you run the installer, you're asked a series of questions: Where do you want your screen elements to appear? Do you want to see your Health/Fatigue/Magicka ribbons all the time or only when they drop significantly? Do you want muted screen elements or bright text? You get the idea. What a brilliant mod! It's a "must" for every immersion player.



Oblivion.ini This is your game's initiation file. It's the file that Oblivion looks at in order to set itself when loading. Many games will store the ini in the game's main directory, but Oblivion stores it in a different location by default. There are many tweaks that can be made to your game by adjusting settings in the ini file. You can find out about several of them by perusing the http://www.tweakguides.com/Oblivion_1.html. I will be making reference to some tweaks you should consider making (as an immersionist) in this chapter of Delte's List. By default, your ini file is located in the My Documents/My Games/Oblivion folder.



CONSOLE I'm sure you already know how to do this, but in an effort to make Delte's List complete, I'll take you through the quick step of opening your game's command console. While in-game, hit the tilde key. The tilde key is the "~" squiggly line to the left of the number 1 at the top left of your keyboard. Once you hit that, your game will pause and the console will open. Type your command, press "enter", then close the menu. You're done. There are several console commands discussed the http://www.tweakguides.com/Oblivion_1.html. Many mods have menus and settings that can be controled via the console. It's a simple operation to get to know.



Disable Your MUSIC! You're bee-boppin' around Cyrodiil, listening to the fantastic (I love it) Oblivion soundtrack, when, abruptly, the music changes. It's battle music! Immediately, you start to look for the enemy. Where is he? Yeah...see, a real immersionist despises this. There should be no warning! You should have no heads-up-beacon that alerts you that danger is near and conflict is imminent. The immersionist will disable his music in his game's ini file. To do this, simply open your ini and look for this line: bMusicEnabled=1. Simply change the value so that it reads like this: bMusicEnabled=0. Wa-laa, you no longer have music enabled in your game, but you WILL continue to hear atmospheric sounds. In fact, it will be a whole new game for you as you hear the sounds of nature and battle that you've never paid attention to before. It will be, guarranteed, much more immersive for you. As a bonus, your game will run a little smoother with the music disabled. System resources are no longer required to play music (not many people realize that a computer sometimes struggles more with playing sounds than it does displaying some graphics...both operations require large amounts of system resources). Just turning the music volume down to zero will not provide this benefit. The music is still playing, using system resources. You just can't hear it. In order to get the performance bump (which will be noticable or not noticable, depending on your specific machine), you'll have to disable music in the ini, and I recommend it (more for the immersion bump than the performance bump). For those of you quasi-immersionists out there who insist on keeping your music (and, as I said, I do dearly love the Oblivion soundtrack), there are options. Take a look at post #5 and post #7 in http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=764109 thread. You'll find some options there for defeating the battle music crutch.



Longer Lasting BLOOD! By default, blood appears in your game for 10 seconds before completely fading away. The next time you hit somebody (or something) in the game, stop and look at the blood. You can literally see it fading away before your eyes. What's it doing? Evaporating? The immersionist wants to change this, and he can do so, easily, by simply changing a value in the ini file. Open your ini and search for fDecalLifetime=10. This setting controls how long blood will appear in your game. The "10" setting means that blood will remain for 10 seconds. In order to change the lifetime of blood appearing in your game, simply change the value. If you want blood to remain for 5 minutes (a good choice), then change the setting to read: fDecalLifetime=300. The "300" value is 300 seconds, or 5 minutes. The http://www.tweakguides.com/Oblivion_1.html recommends a time value of 1200 (20 minutes). I think this is a bit long, which is why I recommend 5 minutes. Changing the time blood will appear in your game does not come without its cost. Blood decals are graphics, and multiple long lasting decals can, indeed, provide some lag for your game. You may want to find a value that suits your taste as an immersionist and fits within the capabilities of your rig. Now, Oblivion has this obnoxious little problem where, after you've changed the value of your decals, that value will remain unless you open your in-game graphics menu. If you open your video menu, then Oblivion automatically resets decal value to its default setting of 10. What you will want to do, after you've found the optimized blood setting AND optimized graphical settings, is to open the console, while you're playing the game, and type: saveini. This will save all of your settings in your ini file. If you open your video menu while in the game, Oblivion will still reset the decals to 10 seconds, but the next time you launch the game, you'll have your preferred settings restored. Without the console step, your decals will revert to the 10 setting.



Screenshot From time to time, you may want to take a screenshot of something cool in your game. In order to do this, you'll have to enable the feature in your game's ini file. Do a search for: bAllowScreenShot=0. Then, once you've found it, simply change the value so that it reads: bAllowScreenShot=1. Once that's accomplished, you're ready to take screenshots, and, in order to do so, simply press the Prt Scr button that rests in the top row, right hand side of your keyboard. You will get a notification at the top of your screen once the shot is taken, and a picture file will be saved to your main Oblivion folder.



LIGHTS! Visible Farther Away! This is a subtle tweak that will make your game more immersive, especially if you are running mods that make night time nights realisticly dark. Search your ini for: fLightLOD2=. Try a value of 4000. This will greatly increase the range at which torches, campfires, lanterns and the like can be spotted. As in real life, light will travel a long, long distance. Be careful not to up this setting too much over 4000 (and you may even want to decrease it). If you start seeing strange colored blotches in the atmosphere or wierd colored reflections in the water. Those are indications that you've upped this setting too far. Knock it down by 200 or 500 notches, and see how that works for you.











...YOUR IMMERSIVE CHARACTER...












...DELTE'S LIST WILL CONTINUE TO GROW...



Posted by: CptJoker Oct 19 2007, 02:58 AM

First post! biggrin.gif

Man this list is getting good and long!



Posted by: Delte Oct 19 2007, 03:00 AM

From the last thread...I thought it might be important to continue this idea here.



QUOTE(wiz0floyd @ Oct 18 2007, 06:35 PM)
This may be a solution to the issue of "too much food"
I'm not sure of it's compatibility with OOO/MMM, but using the current version of Bash's relev/delev feature it should play fine.
More Moldy And Spoiled Ingredients by asQarne http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=OblivionMods.Detail&id=1383


Yes, I've used that mod for a long time. It will be on Delte's List.

Here's a request for you mod tweakers out there...

Wiz...you want to give this a go? CptJoker? Sheathana'ich? StarX? RebelMax? Anyone?



There's too much food in the game for us realism junkies. I've long wanted a mod that would force characters to buy food from inns. With food being so prevalent, acutally spending gold on food is hardly ever necessary (unless you just down right roleplay it).

If there were not as much food around (in barrels and boxes and sacks and such), then purchasing food from inns would be common place. Hunting would be something that would need to be done, from time to time. Stealing food from another's house would have meaning.

My request/thought/idea is simple. Why not take the mod referenced above (Q's More And Moldy Ingredients) and up the percentage chance that food is found spoiled?

That way, all that food you find in barrels and such will probably be spoiled (and, therefore, cannot be eaten).

It seems like a simply tweak that would COMPLETELY change an entire aspect of the game...and that is finding food.

Have I got my wires crossed here, or is this a good idea?


Posted by: Arwen Oct 19 2007, 03:03 AM

[quote name='Delte' date='Oct 18 2007, 08:36 PM' post='11123613']
Sheesh! Am I the only one on this danged list that thinks the brightness of StarX's torches are perfect?
@BHWolf

The regular drop-lit touches with Darker Dungeons and NE-Darker Nights w/HDR are perfect for me. SatarX's are way too bright.

Are you using HDR? Or perhaps your monitor isn't as bright as others. My monitor is a 20.1" Widescreen 1680X1050 800:1 5ms LCD Monitor.

[I wasn't quite fast enough to get this on the previous thread.]



Posted by: Arwen Oct 19 2007, 03:09 AM

QUOTE(Delte @ Oct 18 2007, 09:00 PM)
There's too much food in the game for us realism junkies. I've long wanted a mod that would force characters to buy food from inns. With food being so prevalent, acutally spending gold on food is hardly ever necessary (unless you just down right roleplay it).

If there were not as much food around (in barrels and boxes and sacks and such), then purchasing food from inns would be common place. Hunting would be something that would need to be done, from time to time. Stealing food from another's house would have meaning.


I like this idea as well, the only thing that I would add [if it's even possible], would be to make all the food in an inn for sale. There's been times when I've been to an inn that had food on the counters/tables/shelves, but there was practically nothing on the menu (for sale).



Posted by: CptJoker Oct 19 2007, 03:12 AM

You know what I find more annoying about inns/taverns though? Can't order a simple drink at the bar. All those bottles are off limits, you can't touch a single one!

Hmmmmm....... smile.gif



Posted by: SheerShaw Oct 19 2007, 03:13 AM

Didn't you have an "Imperial City Expansion" section in one of your threads? Could you post it again?



Posted by: Delte Oct 19 2007, 03:15 AM

QUOTE(Arwen @ Oct 18 2007, 08:03 PM)
The regular drop-lit touches with Darker Dungeons and NE-Darker Nights w/HDR are perfect for me. SatarX's are way too bright.

Are you using HDR? Or perhaps your monitor isn't as bright as others. My monitor is a 20.1" Widescreen 1680X1050 800:1 5ms LCD Monitor.


I've got a fantastic video card, but the monitor is a flat screen freebie a friend gave me. I do have it set kinda dark (I like all of my games dark and moody. I don't want to be abel to see in dark places. I want "dark" to be "dark", needing a flashlight or a torch, depending on the game.)

I do use HDR.

I've got my monitor brightness at 30%, and conrast is at 85%. Both are default for this monitor.

Also, in the Oblivion settings, I have the brightness slider moved to the right (brighter) just a hair.

I find that, with Darker Dungeons 1.1 and StarX's fabulous torches, that it's perfect.

I need to take some screenies and post them so that all of you don't think I'm crazy.


Posted by: Michael2390 Oct 19 2007, 03:16 AM

QUOTE(CptJoker @ Oct 18 2007, 06:12 PM)
You know what I find more annoying about inns/taverns though? Can't order a simple drink at the bar. All those bottles are off limits, you can't touch a single one!

Hmmmmm....... smile.gif


well the ineberation that comes with OOO completely reverses that.

edit: All alcoholic drinks now have hyphens around their name to indicate that they're there for the merriment of the crowd. Any beverage with -- around its name, say --Mead-- or --Tamika's West Weald 399-- will bring up a choice: "Care for a drink?" If you choose "Pick up", it's stealing. If you choose "Drink", nobody will mind, but you will be ineberated which really doesn't help you at all.


Posted by: Sheathana'ich Oct 19 2007, 03:18 AM

QUOTE(Delte @ Oct 19 2007, 02:00 AM)
From the last thread...I thought it might be important to continue this idea here.
Yes, I've used that mod for a long time. It will be on Delte's List.

Here's a request for you mod tweakers out there...

Wiz...you want to give this a go? CptJoker? Sheathana'ich? StarX? RebelMax? Anyone?
There's too much food in the game for us realism junkies. I've long wanted a mod that would force characters to buy food from inns. With food being so prevalent, acutally spending gold on food is hardly ever necessary (unless you just down right roleplay it).

If there were not as much food around (in barrels and boxes and sacks and such), then purchasing food from inns would be common place. Hunting would be something that would need to be done, from time to time. Stealing food from another's house would have meaning.

My request/thought/idea is simple. Why not take the mod referenced above (Q's More And Moldy Ingredients) and up the percentage chance that food is found spoiled?

That way, all that food you find in barrels and such will probably be spoiled (and, therefore, cannot be eaten).

It seems like a simply tweak that would COMPLETELY change an entire aspect of the game...and that is finding food.

Have I got my wires crossed here, or is this a good idea?


I think the idea of upping the % chance of mouldy food would be the simplest solution....if its possible, I'm no Scripter but maybe Cipcis(sp?) or Cpt Joker could have a go or maybe get in touch with the creator....I agree that to much food is easily found EVERYWHERE...It would have to be a mod that cuts out the loot scripts for the BIG Overhauls so it must be loading after...to take effect by over writing any instances from the overhauls....Probably why Q's Mouldy would work better as that does the job....


Sheathana'ich



Posted by: Delte Oct 19 2007, 03:19 AM

QUOTE(SheerShaw @ Oct 18 2007, 08:13 PM)
Didn't you have an "Imperial City Expansion" section in one of your threads? Could you post it again?


I know that some of those will be making it to Delte's List. I'm planning a whole "immersive" section focussing on the Imperial City.

But, for now, look around page 6 or so of the last thread. You'll find it.



Posted by: Delte Oct 19 2007, 03:25 AM

QUOTE(Sheathana @ Oct 18 2007, 08:18 PM)
....Probably why Q's Mouldy would work better as that does the job....


I was just thinking that mod already replaces food with spoiled food. And, I know it somehow "knows" to add more spoiled food inside of dungeons and such rather than in barrels and boxes outside of cities.

I was think this would be an easy fix for the "too much food" problem for us immersioners who use hunger mods.

But, if anybody has a different idea, we're all ears here. The goal is to limit the food the player can find and to do that in the simplest way (easiest way for the tweaker) that can be found. I was thinking that since Q's MandMI already works that way, it would be the easiest starting point.

If any of you out there are thinking outside of the box, though, then slap the idea on us.



Posted by: Michael2390 Oct 19 2007, 03:29 AM

QUOTE(Delte @ Oct 18 2007, 06:25 PM)
If any of you out there are thinking outside of the box, though, then slap the idea on us.

ehhh.. you dont want to hear my idea.. it's too good for you


Posted by: pingveen Oct 19 2007, 03:43 AM

QUOTE(Delte @ Oct 18 2007, 09:25 PM)
I was just thinking that mod already replaces food with spoiled food. And, I know it somehow "knows" to add more spoiled food inside of dungeons and such rather than in barrels and boxes outside of cities.

I was think this would be an easy fix for the "too much food" problem for us immersioners who use hunger mods.

But, if anybody has a different idea, we're all ears here. The goal is to limit the food the player can find and to do that in the simplest way (easiest way for the tweaker) that can be found. I was thinking that since Q's MandMI already works that way, it would be the easiest starting point.

If any of you out there are thinking outside of the box, though, then slap the idea on us.


I'll take a look at this. The simplest fix, bar none, would be to increase the chance of a levelled list food selection pulling up empty. It looks like every time a LL pulls for food, there's a 75% chance that it comes back with something. Knocking this down to 50% or even 25% would probably have the result you desire - and I believe this could be done to work with either vanilla or the moldy food mod without too much pain.




Posted by: Cipscis Oct 19 2007, 03:46 AM

QUOTE(Sheathana @ Oct 19 2007, 02:18 PM)
I think the idea of upping the % chance of mouldy food would be the simplest solution....if its possible, I'm no Scripter but maybe Cipcis(sp?) or Cpt Joker could have a go or maybe get in touch with the creator....I agree that to much food is easily found EVERYWHERE...It would have to be a mod that cuts out the loot scripts for the BIG Overhauls so it must be loading after...to take effect by over writing any instances from the overhauls....Probably why Q's Mouldy would work better as that does the job....
Sheathana'ich

It's Cipscis, but don't worry, no one ever spells it right, lol. I could definitely look into this, but I'm not sure how Q's Mouldy works, so I can't say at the moment whether or not it could be done. However I'm almost done converting the new (extra Immersive with awesome sounds) Real Hunger so that alchemy affects are no longer replaced. However I'm going away for a few days soon, so I probably won't be able to upload or test it for 3-4 days, but I'll try to get it done ASAP.

Oh, and CptJoker, I sent you a message on the TESNexus Forums, but I don't know if you've got it/checked. I just want to make sure you don't have a problem with me adding this to Real Hunger and updating it myself?


Posted by: Delte Oct 19 2007, 03:49 AM

QUOTE
Btw, I made sure there was an Immersive option in the Grumble Sounds just for you.


@CptJoker

You should have seen the ear-to-ear smile that appeared on my face when I 7-zipped your download and saw that esp lying there.

I'm gonna try to try that sucker out tonight. smile.gif







QUOTE
I'll take a look at this. The simplest fix, bar none, would be to increase the chance of a levelled list food selection pulling up empty. It looks like every time a LL pulls for food, there's a 75% chance that it comes back with something. Knocking this down to 50% or even 25% would probably have the result you desire - and I believe this could be done to work with either vanilla or the moldy food mod without too much pain.


@pingveen

Now, there's an out-of-the-box thinker. Awesome, man.



Posted by: Kolyana Oct 19 2007, 03:52 AM

I'm thinking ... no, I AM ... installing MMM 3.2 and I was wondering about the 4-day waiting in a no-NPC/monster area (such as my shack, I guess). Last time I waited 24hrs I collapsed form hunger or lack of sleep or both.

Do I have to wait 4 days straight, can I do it in 12 hr periods with sleeping? Is i just that 4 days need ot pass by without me being around anything so the respawn can kick in without interference?



Posted by: Cipscis Oct 19 2007, 03:57 AM

QUOTE(Kolyana @ Oct 19 2007, 02:52 PM)
I'm thinking ... no, I AM ... installing MMM 3.2 and I was wondering about the 4-day waiting in a no-NPC/monster area (such as my shack, I guess). Last time I waited 24hrs I collapsed form hunger or lack of sleep or both.

Do I have to wait 4 days straight, can I do it in 12 hr periods with sleeping? Is i just that 4 days need ot pass by without me being around anything so the respawn can kick in without interference?

I would recommend having a big sleep and breakfast (so all your attributes are where they should be), then disabling your food and sleep Mods, then waiting, then re-enabling them, because it should be 4 days in a row


Posted by: Timsup2nothin Oct 19 2007, 04:07 AM

QUOTE(Cipscis @ Oct 18 2007, 06:57 PM)
I would recommend having a big sleep and breakfast (so all your attributes are where they should be), then disabling your food and sleep Mods, then waiting, then re-enabling them, because it should be 4 days in a row


Note: you need to stay in your shack or wherever for as long as your game takes to respawn, so if you aren't set to three day respawn govern accordingly. However, it doesn't really matter what you do in your shack for the required time. Wait. Sleep. Eat food from your larder. Read books (if you have a time burns while reading mod). Redecorate. Play marbles with your pearl collection (my personal favorite).




Posted by: pingveen Oct 19 2007, 04:22 AM

QUOTE(Delte @ Oct 18 2007, 09:49 PM)
Now, there's an out-of-the-box thinker. Awesome, man.


I'll give it a whirl tomorrow and see how it works out in game (alas, if only I could uninstall real hunger and real fatigue from real life). From going over the lists, it looks like it'll have an effect on merchants as well (non-food specific merchants to a considerably greater degree than food specific merchants who draw from a special list) which will work in synergy to the idea of encouraging going to the taverns and inns for food or hunting and gathering.


Posted by: CptJoker Oct 19 2007, 04:31 AM

QUOTE(Michael2390 @ Oct 19 2007, 02:16 AM)
well the ineberation that comes with OOO completely reverses that.

edit: All alcoholic drinks now have hyphens around their name to indicate that they're there for the merriment of the crowd. Any beverage with -- around its name, say --Mead-- or --Tamika's West Weald 399-- will bring up a choice: "Care for a drink?" If you choose "Pick up", it's stealing. If you choose "Drink", nobody will mind, but you will be ineberated which really doesn't help you at all.


So that's how it works... thanks! biggrin.gif

Although I seem to have over-written that functionality with something in my load order. *sigh* The fun never stops with sorting the load list...


QUOTE(Cipscis @ Oct 19 2007, 02:46 AM)
Oh, and CptJoker, I sent you a message on the TESNexus Forums, but I don't know if you've got it/checked. I just want to make sure you don't have a problem with me adding this to Real Hunger and updating it myself?


Ah yes - for my part go ahead, although you may want to ask Thingamajig if you can, I didn't really get a reply from him... 72_72.gif


QUOTE(Delte @ Oct 19 2007, 02:49 AM)
@CptJoker

You should have seen the ear-to-ear smile that appeared on my face when I 7-zipped your download and saw that esp lying there.

I'm gonna try to try that sucker out tonight. smile.gif


Now here's my next question: what would be the best way to do Yawns for Real Sleep 1.4? biggrin.gif

Should I go with bigger and bigger yawns as your tiredness-level increases, or increasingly more frequent yawning?

Just thinking about it is making me yawn! Same thing happened with Grumble Sounds: listening to those effects over and over kept making me feel hungrier...


Posted by: Cipscis Oct 19 2007, 04:35 AM

Hey guys, last post before I go away for a few days. Unfortunately the update to Real Hunger isn't yet done, so you'll have to wait until next week (it's still buggy). On the other hand, Realistic Fatigue is about to be updated with the new swimming and dying changes, and a couple of bugfixes (haven't had time to test it myself, but it sounds good)

Now, you all be good while I'm away, ok?

Cipscis

EDIT:

Oh, and a while ago someone said the pilgrims were added by Knights of the Nine? This is wrong, they are added by OOO, just thought I'd clear that up. And thanks for the permission CptJoker



Posted by: Kolyana Oct 19 2007, 04:49 AM

So I just installed MMM, Delte's recommended options, Enxems (sp?) body replacer and a couple of armors for same - tweaked the load order (uh-oh) and now I've got three things happening that didn't sued to:

1) Quick travel caused a crash (i know, I know ... I just wanted to get back to where I was after resting four 4 days!)
2) I got the NVIDIA black screen with GUI for the first time ever
3) I'm missing a texture or something in my Bravil home - the fire place (or in front of the fire place) is one big exclamation mark over another, sort of on a transparent ... shape.

How can I find out what is causing these? Start turning things on and off and lots of testing? Is there any form of console command to help the process/ I checked the lists I had and didn't see anything that seemed obvious. I'd be happy by finding out what texture is missing and which mod is trying to put it there.



Posted by: innk Oct 19 2007, 05:21 AM

Just a quick question about the DLT with weight mod..
Im getting bad downloads or the sound files have 0 bytes?

=\



Posted by: Aldwen Oct 19 2007, 05:26 AM

QUOTE(Timsup2nothin @ Oct 18 2007, 10:07 PM)
Note: you need to stay in your shack or wherever for as long as your game takes to respawn, so if you aren't set to three day respawn govern accordingly. However, it doesn't really matter what you do in your shack for the required time. Wait. Sleep. Eat food from your larder. Read books (if you have a time burns while reading mod). Redecorate. Play marbles with your pearl collection (my personal favorite).


Heh, you're pretty much on house arrest tongue.gif

If you value your FPS
Do NOT download http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8939 The idea of this is awesome, especially if you use slower respawn rates, but it murders your computer. I don't know why exactly, though I figure it has to do with how the scripts are running, but with this mod enable your computer grinds to a halt almost. I was hopping it wasn't this mod so I did do extensive testing, but alas whenever this mod is active your computer feels the need to "Load Area..." every few minutes :/

Can anyone recommend another corpse removal mod that is not murderous?


QUOTE
Kolyana:
2) I got the NVIDIA black screen with GUI for the first time ever
3) I'm missing a texture or something in my Bravil home - the fire place (or in front of the fire place) is one big exclamation mark over another, sort of on a transparent ... shape.


2) You know I just recently got that as well. I think it's tied to MMM. Shortly after installing MMM I also got one of those bugs. It had never happened before MMM so it must be linked.

3) That really could be any manner of things but a simple mistake may be the renaming of .esps I tend to do that to keep things organized better but a few mods are sensitive to a rename, dunno why. One that comes to mind is Thievery in the Imperial City.


Posted by: Delte Oct 19 2007, 05:30 AM

QUOTE(Kolyana @ Oct 18 2007, 09:49 PM)
How can I find out what is causing these? Start turning things on and off and lots of testing? Is there any form of console command to help the process/ I checked the lists I had and didn't see anything that seemed obvious. I'd be happy by finding out what texture is missing and which mod is trying to put it there.


Use OBMM's conflict detector as a starting point. See which mods conflict, and focus on those.

Don't forget to use logic. What's missing the texture? What modifies that item?







QUOTE
If you value your FPS
Do NOT download Reneers Corpse Mod. The idea of this is awesome, especially if you use slower respawn rates, but it murders your computer. I don't know why exactly, though I figure it has to do with how the scripts are running, but with this mod enable your computer grinds to a halt almost. I was hopping it wasn't this mod so I did do extensive testing, but alas whenever this mod is active your computer feels the need to "Load Area..." every few minutes :/

Can anyone recommend another corpse removal mod that is not murderous?


@Aldwen
I used Reneer's mod. I didn't like the mod much, but I didn't have any fps hit.



Posted by: Eventine Shangea Oct 19 2007, 05:36 AM

Always nice to see a lot of people appreciating the immersion mods bring. Unfortunately, I can't really have any side effects on Real Hunger and Real Sleep because of my insane endurance (due to Toaster's Legendary Stats) and extremely small timescale of 6. sad.gif



Posted by: migthegreat Oct 19 2007, 05:49 AM

Immersive Combat Alert


Idea for even more realism......since none of us can get enough

Would it be possible to increase the sounds of enemy footsteps, and make foilage rustle when you brush against it?

Imagine this....... You have the music shut off, and you are in the forest at night. You are terrified because you are only level 1 and OOO is enabled..... 72_72.gif..... You move cautiously through the darkness, eyes darting across your surroundings for any sign of the wolves that hunt the area. If you don't manage to spot them in time they could rip your throat out before you have a chance to scream, much less draw your sword. Over the breeze, and the beating of your heart, you hear a faint rustling that is too erratic to be the wind. Your body tenses, and you listen closely. Suddenly a bush rustles violently behind you, and times seems to slow down. In one motion you turn around and unsheathe your blade, catching the sight of a gray blur speeding towards you, sending clods of dirt into the air. You manage to get your sword in front of you as it pounces, causing it to impale itself as it knocks you over. Dying, it looks you in the eye and lets out a pearcing howl that chills your blood, and showers you with spittle. Almost instantly the the forest around you comes alive with noise as the rest of the pack charges towards the death howl of their brother. Tossing the carcass off your chest (sword and all), you dash for the city, hoping you dont have to load your game. tongue.gif

These extra sounds would really make the forest around you feel much more alive. This would be great for when you are in hurry, or badly wounded, and dont want to fight that bear in your path. Instead of only knowing he is there because he is biteing your face, you could hear him from a distance, and go around.

Is this possible?


Posted by: Aldwen Oct 19 2007, 06:02 AM


That is an awesome idea migthegreat!! That really would bring yet another whole level to the game with one more sense engaged. If anyone could do that... you'd be awesome smile.gif



Posted by: CptJoker Oct 19 2007, 06:12 AM

QUOTE(Eventine Shangea @ Oct 19 2007, 04:36 AM)
Always nice to see a lot of people appreciating the immersion mods bring. Unfortunately, I can't really have any side effects on Real Hunger and Real Sleep because of my insane endurance (due to Toaster's Legendary Stats) and extremely small timescale of 6. sad.gif


I play with a timescale of 1. biggrin.gif

And the first time I heard my tummy rumble it got me grinning.


Posted by: JamesGold Oct 19 2007, 06:21 AM

QUOTE(CptJoker @ Oct 18 2007, 09:12 PM)
I play with a timescale of 1. biggrin.gif

And the first time I heard my tummy rumble it got me grinning.

What about a satisfied grunt when you're full instead of the text that shows up?


Posted by: Elovia Oct 19 2007, 06:39 AM

QUOTE
Delte said ...

@Elovia

Nice review of Random Encounters, but I couldn't tell where you stand on the mod. Would you recommend it? Or is it a "thumbs down"?


Well, if I stand on the front half of the mod, the back half raises ... and if I stand on the back half of the mod, the front half raises. bonk.gif

I've been testing it for a while, and my current settings are: Medium chance of encounters in Wilderness and Interiors, 5% chance of Thieves. Thus far, I've seen three random spawns of creatures, and no thieves.

I'm not a modder (more of a mod-user), but I'm somewhat curious as to which list that Random Encounters pulls the creatures from. Are they vanilla or OOO/MMM? The ones I've seen have been really tough encounters for my level 1 characters ... especially if they come in sets of two or three. To be fair, the number of spawning creatures appears random too; I've seen a few as one and as many as three in a single random spawn.

From an immersion standpoint, the way the spawned creatures appear is that they fade in (i.e., as though from the ethereal plane), and they appear a short distance from the character ... guessing to say roughly 3 - 6 meters (or roughly 10 - 20 feet) ... which might be an immersion breaker. Is this "cost" greater than the "kwel"? The coolness from the mod is knowing you're not always in control of your immediate environment; so for example, if you've just cleared a dungeon, it may still not be safe to care-free run around with your guard down.

Anyway ... I may remove this mod but I'm not done testing the range of its capabilities. As mentioned above, I have yet to encounter a thief from the mod and I'd really like to do so for the experience. The allure of this mod, for me, was the possibility of an unsafe sleep. My post before was to clarify the behavior of the mod ... i.e., my prior assumption was that the encounters occured during periods of time passing in a menu window such as the sleep/wait/alchemy/etc. types. But I have since corrected myself to note that these random encounters occur at any time of the day or night when in Wilderness or Interiors (caves, dungeons, ruins, etc.).

The wilderness and interior encounters may be annoying, or immersion breaking ... but I still think the thief encounters must have something good going for it ... but I won't know until I've experienced one and then tracked down the dirty swear.gif to recover the things he stole.

Unsafe sleeping in the wilderness ... gotta be kwel.
Randomly appearing creatures near your character (forced to react at possibly inopportune times) ... not so much.

I'd like to hear what others think of the mod, though. I'll probably set the random encounters on the lowest setting, and keep the thievery part at mid setting (choices of 1%, 5%, or 10% chance for thieves) until I get robbed in my sleep ... and then I'll re-evaluate from there.

All IMHO, YMMV.

smile.gif




Posted by: CptJoker Oct 19 2007, 06:45 AM

I've been using the Random Encounter mod too. Personally I'd recommend keeping it to Low and 1%, and going with the Wilderness-City option (and not with Ghost-Wilderness-City!)

I've been mugged twice, both of which were spectacular fun. The guards finally got to do something! They must have been so proud! biggrin.gif

QUOTE(JamesGold @ Oct 19 2007, 05:21 AM)
What about a satisfied grunt when you're full instead of the text that shows up?


Already on my to-do list. smile.gif


Posted by: Zephranthes Oct 19 2007, 07:47 AM

Great thread(s)

Wish I was a fast enough reader to keep up with them all.

I haven't actually embarked in the immersive method as I don't have a lot of time atm though I do want to eventually. Combat badly needs to be revamped first though.

I didn't see this mod having been posted yet but:

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8991

Quite a cool effect smile.gif



Posted by: Aldwen Oct 19 2007, 07:55 AM

Oh wow that sure is neat'o. I'm downloading now Yet another reason for my characters not to wear helmets tongue.gif

Edit;
Ok, or maybe I won't be testing it, I CTD when trying to start Oblivion with this loaded sad.gif I wonder though... Does it work with all the new helmets added with OOO and MMM? I some how doubt it...



Posted by: Elovia Oct 19 2007, 08:24 AM

Got a bit of a snag ... Brother Jauffre won't speak to me on the subject of the Amulet of Kings, even after I dangle it in front of him.

I'm using Alternative Start, but IIRC, Jauffre has taken the amulet from an earlier character with the same mod. Any idea which other immersive mod might be causing his behavior?

My Immersive load order provided below:



Edit: nm ... I took a look at the comments on Alternative Start Arrive by Ship (my actual mod installed) and yes, this is a problem with the mod. thumbsdown.gif

Heads up and FYI.



Posted by: RebelMax Oct 19 2007, 09:41 AM

@All
http://www.sendspace.com/file/u2t735 I won't upload it on TESN or whatever because I have no permission of asQarne to change his mod.

So, I've raised the chance of food not to spawn in container by ~3 times and raised the chance of moldy food to spawn by ~4 times. Try it and tell me how it plays like.

.RM.



Posted by: Jubjuby3 Oct 19 2007, 11:28 AM

could anyone direct me to where i can download mmm? and do i need to install mmm or ooo first?

also i lsot all my mod data recently, aide from whats on deltes list can anyone say what programs ill need for ooo and mmm?

ie: obmm



Posted by: Jardas Oct 19 2007, 12:01 PM

Jubjuby3
There are a lot of thread about oooand mmm...
Just do a search.
C ya



Posted by: Aldwen Oct 19 2007, 12:03 PM

@ Elovia

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3973 is another Alternate Start mod. This is the one I'm currently using and it doesn't break the MQ, nor does it start it, so you're free to start the MQ whenever you feel ready (you have to read a note on your doorstep.)

So far it's my favorite Alternate Start mod simply because you can roleplay as if your character has always lived in Cyrodiil, thus their house.

--

Right now Aldwen, my character, lives in Bravil and makes a living by collecting pants for The Warlocks Luck proprietor... His luck just changed today though...

I was out harvesting plant ingredients as I had been the day before, just wandering around the Bravil area collecting what I could. This time though, as I had harvested just yesterday, I had to venture a bit farther from Bravil then I would have liked. So there I am wandering around the woods west of Bravil picking flowers when I see movement in the distance... I quickly duck behind a rock and shakily draw my old Iron short sword. Peeking over the rocks I spy a Goblin wandering around... I watch the bugger for a while and then decide just to give him a wide berth. Off I sneak into the distance... It was getting a bit late though, the sun was setting and it was getting dark fast, so I decide, with Goblins around and night falling I had better head back to town...

I'm still close enough to Bravil that I can see it as I come over a nearby ledge so I leap off and make on my merry way, only to stop dead as I spy 3 bandits have set up shop right in the middle of the road... I barely have time to think about this as suddenly an arrow zips by my head! There were 4 bandits! I high tail it to a nearby rock and pray a Legionnaire is nearby. *SHING* I hear... Uh-oh his buddy's know I'm here! I grab a quick breath and dash from the rocks, an arrow just barely misses me as I fly into the woods, 3 bandits on my tail and one firing arrows at me. "Great I'm dead" I think as I flee deeper into the woods.

Suddenly I hear screeching all around me... Great... That one goblin was part of a gang... Ahead of me I see one goblin pull out his bow and take aim *WOOSH" The arrow flies by me and strikes on of the bandits!! I'm almost out of breath by now so I don't even stop to look what's happening but a battle just broke out by the sound of it. I quickly jump on top of a nearby rock and turn around to see a massive battle going on!! Those 4 bandits have now been engaged by a Goblin Horde of at least 6 or 7! Naturally, I start throwing fireballs at whoever is closest tongue.gif

Anyways, this battle took a good long while before finally only 1 bandit remained. On my cozy rock I quickly finished him. After the battle I looted what I could and headed back to the city with new toys smile.gif

Tomorrow I think Aldwen will be feeling adventurous enough to plunder a cave! smile.gif


Oh yeah... so back on topic, that little story was brought to you by OOO, MMM and Alternate Start by Dung_Beetle biggrin.gif

--



Posted by: Cipscis Oct 19 2007, 01:24 PM

Yeah, I know I said that I wasn't going to post while I was away but I guess I can make a few exceptions... I've managed to take my laptop with me and remotely connect to the internet (my connection's about 100kbps, at home it's normally over 20x that fast!). For what reason do I post? Well, I'm sitting here at my laptop at 12:22 a.m. and I've just managed to finish my alterations to Realistic Hunger so that now food items aren't "missing" an alchemy effect. However, so far I've only altered one of the many .esp files (although the others should take long) and need to get some sleep, but you can expect the updated Realistic Hunger within 24 hours! (You'll probably note that the .esp files are much larger in size, but don't worry, the scripts I've had to use are quite lengthy but I'm running Oblivion off my 2 year old laptop and I didn't notice any FPS hit at all). Happy gaming!

Cipscis



Posted by: Meridian Oct 19 2007, 03:31 PM

Still can't get "Denock Arrows" to work.

Tried on a totally clean install, new game start back in the dungeon, no mods active except denock. Latest version of OBSE and Oblivion v1.2 ??? whatever it is. Still no luck.

I'm thinking of installing Thieves Arsenal and removing all the conflicts with Real lights just so I can get Denock to work, but this is bugging the crap out of me now.

YES, I am using the default grab key "Z". I've even tried changing it to another key, nothing.



Posted by: Darina Oct 19 2007, 03:35 PM

QUOTE(Meridian @ Oct 19 2007, 01:31 PM)
Still can't get "Denock Arrows" to work.

Tried on a totally clean install, new game start back in the dungeon, no mods active except denock. Latest version of OBSE and Oblivion v1.2 ??? whatever it is. Still no luck.

I'm thinking of installing Thieves Arsenal and removing all the conflicts with Real lights just so I can get Denock to work, but this is bugging the crap out of me now.

YES, I am using the default grab key "Z". I've even tried changing it to another key, nothing.


Just a silly idea: Maybe the problem is that you use an European keyboard (layout). In Germany it's often that the Z-key is the Y-key and vice versa. Depends on the game.
Dunno, just an idea. blush.gif


Posted by: Meridian Oct 19 2007, 03:51 PM

I'll give it a try in a minute, but the readme does say that the script can detect whatever key is used as the Grab key.

Just looking through the ESP of Thieves Arsenal to see how that handles it, because that one works fine.


EDIT: Nope, "Y" key didn't work. If I bring up the console as soon as the game loads I can see this --- ATTACK KEY == 255 , GRAB KEY == 510.

So I guess the Denock script is loading, just won't work.

If someone could just pull the Denock Arrows functionality from Thieves Arsenal and make it into a single ESP I'd owe you BIG TIME.



Posted by: ABO Oct 19 2007, 04:10 PM

QUOTE(Cipscis @ Oct 18 2007, 09:35 PM)
Hey guys, last post before I go away for a few days. Unfortunately the update to Real Hunger isn't yet done, so you'll have to wait until next week (it's still buggy). On the other hand, Realistic Fatigue is about to be updated with the new swimming and dying changes, and a couple of bugfixes (haven't had time to test it myself, but it sounds good)


I will get this out this week end.

I note in earlier threads people were complaining about Realistic Fatigues blur effect and were wondering how to turn it of. The Readme explains how you can adjust or turn off this and other effects at the console, and these changes should be preserved when you save your game (if they are not, let me know).

I also have been considering reducing the fatigue burn from running/jumping because people seem to still find it excessive. However, it seems fine to me in practice, so I'm fishing for more feedback on this before I do it. I can adjust it so that it is a bit easier for low level characters without making it even easier for higher level characters by reducing the athletics fatigue bonuses. However, this will mean that athletics has even less impact on how long you can run before collapsing, and it's already pretty minimal.

How long you can run is mainly determined by endurance. Athletics mostly affects how fast you can run. This means your mage character who runs around without armour will run faster but not much longer as his athletics skill improves. To run longer you need to boost your endurance by blocking, wearing heavy armour, or repairing things.


Posted by: Delte Oct 19 2007, 04:40 PM

QUOTE(migthegreat @ Oct 18 2007, 10:49 PM)
[Would it be possible to increase the sounds of enemy footsteps, and make foilage rustle when you brush against it?




I'm wondering if playing with the sound off just takes some time to get used to. Mig's idea is awesome. But, it's a rare day, indeed, in my game, when an enemy will sneak up on me. Several times, since I posted that Music ini tweak on Post #2, people have mentioned how baddies are stealth experts that sneak up on them.

I'm thinking that maybe you didn't realize how much of a crutch the battle music was for you? As I said, it's a rare day when someone sneaks up on Pugg.

But, then again, I've had the music off for a long, long time. I'm very used to it. And, I do have the footsteps slider in the game's menu turned up to where I can hear footsteps.

I like Mig's idea...but, I'm just wondering....



Posted by: Delte Oct 19 2007, 05:05 PM

QUOTE
From an immersion standpoint, the way the spawned creatures appear is that they fade in (i.e., as though from the ethereal plane), and they appear a short distance from the character ... guessing to say roughly 3 - 6 meters (or roughly 10 - 20 feet) ... which might be an immersion breaker. Is this "cost" greater than the "kwel"? The coolness from the mod is knowing you're not always in control of your immediate environment; so for example, if you've just cleared a dungeon, it may still not be safe to care-free run around with your guard down.


@Elovia

Thats kinda how I felt about the mod. I tried it. Set my chances low. Then, I was surpised one night, just before beddy-bye time, when I was attacked inside Waynon Priory.

Two bandits just teleported in right in front of me.

That turned me off. It would have been better if they used the nearest spawn point, somewhere out of sight, and came through the door.

Like you, I like the idea for the mod. And, I may give it one more "at bat". But, I'm thinking the implementation is going to get it a thumbs down.







QUOTE
Heres a tweaked version of More and Moldy Ingredients mod. I won't upload it on TESN or whatever because I have no permission of asQarne to change his mod.

So, I've raised the chance of food not to spawn in container by ~3 times and raised the chance of moldy food to spawn by ~4 times. Try it and tell me how it plays like.


@RebelMax

I'm downloading now and will try on my next time playing. I didn't get to play last night, so it's going to be kwel trying this and CptJoker's hunger sounds in Real Hunger, both at the same time!







QUOTE
could anyone direct me to where i can download mmm? and do i need to install mmm or ooo first?

also i lsot all my mod data recently, aide from whats on deltes list can anyone say what programs ill need for ooo and mmm?

ie: obmm


@Jubjuby3

Yep, do a search on the forum. The OOO and MMM threads are not hard to find. Since they're popular discussion threads, both will usually be near the top of the forums, within the first three pages.

You'll want to install OBMM first. Go ahead and install OBSE too (you'll need it for mods later). Then, install OOO. Then, install MMM.







QUOTE
I was out harvesting plant ingredients as I had been the day before, just wandering around the Bravil area collecting what I could. This time though, as I had harvested just yesterday, I had to venture a bit farther from Bravil then I would have liked. So there I am wandering around the woods west of Bravil picking flowers when I see movement in the distance... I quickly duck behind a rock and shakily draw my old Iron short sword. Peeking over the rocks I spy a Goblin wandering around... I watch the bugger for a while and then decide just to give him a wide berth. Off I sneak into the distance... It was getting a bit late though, the sun was setting and it was getting dark fast, so I decide, with Goblins around and night falling I had better head back to town...


@Aldwen

I love stuff like this. It's the story-lovin' immersionist in me.

Have you considered going on a 3 month ReSpawn? I've been trying different ReSpawn times lately (using the ones packaged with OOO, and another mod I found), and, I think, the 3 month one is probaby the best.

For example, the plants that you're picking in your game will only grow back 3 mos. after you pick them. 4 times a year. That's seems a lot more realistic to me than having them re-bloom every three days.

Plus, think about what Aldwen will do when he's picked everything within a square mile of Bravil....the pickin's will be slim, and he might be forced to move on.

If you're interested in the 3 mo. mod, I'll provide a download. (And, as I said, there are some others packaged with OOO.)



QUOTE
I'm almost out of breath by now so I don't even stop to look what's happening but a battle just broke out by the sound of it.


Sounds like you're using the Fatigue Mod. If so, a little trick I learned...get yourself a Restore Fatigue spell. As you run, magically enhance your endurance by throwing the Restore Fatigue every so often. In this way you can leverage magic to help you run farther. At low level, this might save your life.


Posted by: thylantyr Oct 19 2007, 05:18 PM

Real Hunger v1.4 by Dominic Watson, updated by Thingamajig
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=10798

Late last night I installed his mod to check out. I have an FCOM mod installation. I used an existing saved game, not a new game
and placed this mod last in the load order. Something is weird.

I like so much about Thingamajig's update of Dominic's mod is that he took out the "Food Units Required" message that would pop up, telling the player exactly how many units of food to eat (although this information is still available, for those who want to know, via the character stat screen). What this mod does is simply tell the player that the character is hungry.

1. I see 'Food Units Required'.
2. I don't see any information on the character stat screen.
3. I went to an inn to sleep for 4 hours to make the character 'hungry' and then I got the message that I needed 25 food units. My character stats dropped, they were in red.
4. The food eaten satisfied the character but my character stats didn't reset back to nornal.

I need to test this on a 'start new game'.



Posted by: Delte Oct 19 2007, 05:32 PM

QUOTE
I also have been considering reducing the fatigue burn from running/jumping because people seem to still find it excessive. However, it seems fine to me in practice, so I'm fishing for more feedback on this before I do it.


@ABO and Realistic Fatigue Users

I've used Realistic Fatigue for many, many game hours. A long time. Over several characters.

Usually, I have input on how to improve a mod. I'm blank with RF. I think it works perfectly (although I'm interested to see what Donovan Baarda is going to do in his upcoming next release).

So...sorry. Nope. I'm not one of those who thinks the blur is a problem.

And...my guess is that the people who do think the blur is a problem are running low level characters (characters that are below 10th or 15th level).

You see, the mod has to fit the huge range of levels possible in Oblivion. If you adjust the blur for the low level characters, then, your high level characters will never experience it at all.

The blur happening less frequently is one of the perks of moving up on level.


Posted by: thylantyr Oct 19 2007, 05:34 PM

Immersive Wait v0.91 beta

You can make a huge list on how many things you don't like with the Elder Scrolls rulesets and game mechanics, hence
that's why we see so many mods because players 'fix' all these methodologies that are probably neato 20 years ago, but
not today.

I don't like the idea that a player character can 'wait'. If anything make the option to wait for 1 or 2 hours maximum
because nobody 'waits' for 12 - 24 hours standing there. If you need to pass time, go sleep.

When you wait there is no consequences, the game world activity seems to freeze as there is no random encounters to interrupt your 'waiting'.

I tried this mod and it crashed if I loaded a saved game, but it seemed to work when I started a new game. This mod is pretty sweet in spite
that I hate that Oblivion has a 'waiting' option, but most likely I won't use this mod because it doesn't replace the existing 'wait system',
it only adds a new system in the form of a stool found in your inventory. You can hotkey this item and once you press it, you get a new menu screen
with options on how long to wait and what other criteria interests you.

You click on how long you want to wait and your character will animate and sit on the stool and you watch the game world 'fast forwad' in time
as activity in the game world is seen, plus your waiting can be interrupted by encounters.

This mod would be much better if it would disable the vanilla 'wait system'.



Posted by: Delte Oct 19 2007, 05:39 PM

@migthegreat



It has been custom on this Thread, since it was created, to invite mod authors to speak about their mods. Would you care to say a few words about your Intelligence Overhaul?

I've never used, although I've glance at it. The questions that come to my mind circle around game balance and compatibility. Do you see, in any way, how the game could become unbalanced using your mod? What about compatibility with OOO? Combatiblity with Supreme Magicka and/or Midas Spells?

In what way does your mod increase immersion, realism, or role playing?

The floor is yours, my friend. And, I, for one, and eagerly looking forward to your thoughts on this (and feel free to speak about any other aspects of your mod that you think appropriate).

Take 'er away.






Posted by: Delte Oct 19 2007, 05:45 PM

QUOTE(thylantyr @ Oct 19 2007, 10:34 AM)
I don't like the idea that a player character can 'wait'. If anything make the option to wait for 1 or 2 hours maximum
because nobody 'waits' for 12 - 24 hours standing there. If you need to pass time, go sleep.

When you wait there is no consequences, the game world activity seems to freeze as there is no random encounters to interrupt your 'waiting'.

This mod would be much better if it would disable the vanilla 'wait system'.


I used that mod a long time ago...I think it was two characters ago. I kinda felt the same. It is a neat mod, but, it seems a bit outdated with the timescale console command.

If you need to wait, just use the console. Change your timescale. Speed the game up, or slow the game down. That way, the game world still "lives" around you. Enounters still happen.

While waiting for Glarthir, behind the church, in Skingrad, just get there a close to midnight as you can, and if you're a bit early, then simply change your timescale. Speed it up. When you see him coming, restore your timescale to the level you prefer gaming.

Same thing when you get to a shop, in the morning, when it's closed. If you want to roleplay that time, then do it. If you want to get into the shop to do your business, without hitting the "wait" key, then just speed up time with the timescale command.

No mod needed for this.



Posted by: CptJoker Oct 19 2007, 06:08 PM

QUOTE(Meridian @ Oct 19 2007, 02:31 PM)
Still can't get "Denock Arrows" to work.


Glad I'm not the only one! I haven't been able to get it to work either, and I used to use it in a different installation. sad.gif

QUOTE(Delte @ Oct 19 2007, 04:39 PM)
@migthegreat
... Intelligence Overhaul?


Oh I really like this one. Reading books that actually increases your intelligence, with options to slow down or speed up the effect to your tastes.

Imagine: you have a couple of hours to waste before A Fighting Chance opens up (Talerian is an early-riser) so you grab a book out of your inventory, or head over to the Imperial City public library. Sitting and reading, you spend some time poring over a tome when suddenly your intelligence goes up a point. It's a classy moment of connection: books have a purpose now rather than simply triggering an effect somewhere, like extra Conjuration skills; now your character gets "smarter" the more you push his nose into those books. I've only noticed my intelligence increase very rarely - it doesn't seem to be imbalancing at all, and certainly better than those silly "Your block skill increses by 5" bonuses in stock Oblivion.

Who needs to use "wait" when you have something like http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=OblivionMods.Detail&id=1628? I use all the down time between disembowling my enemies to catch up on the Tamrielic equivalents of Wittgenstein and Locke. biggrin.gif


Posted by: Darina Oct 19 2007, 06:31 PM

Just a quick recommendation:
Head over to Elys new threat and check out the new mod: Invest more for Oblivion!

With it you are able to invest more gold in a store based on your mercantile skill.

A nice little twist I think! fing34.gif

http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=766925

Happy gaming! Darina



Posted by: pingveen Oct 19 2007, 06:44 PM

QUOTE(RebelMax @ Oct 19 2007, 03:41 AM)
@All
http://www.sendspace.com/file/u2t735 I won't upload it on TESN or whatever because I have no permission of asQarne to change his mod.

So, I've raised the chance of food not to spawn in container by ~3 times and raised the chance of moldy food to spawn by ~4 times. Try it and tell me how it plays like.

.RM.



You beat me to it. Looks good. I was leery of making changes to asQarne's mod as well, and didn't find a simple compatibility solution - so...

For those that don't use the moldy ingredients, http://www.adeliedreams.com/ob/less_food_v02.zip that works on just the vanilla content. As an added bonus, it contains an addon to handle Shivering Isles, which can be used with the main game esp from my version OR the tweaked moldy ingredients esp that Rebel Max created without any problems. Details of the changes are in the readme (note that my version uses a different set of percentages to RM - there's going to be more food generally in containers that have a higher social class, and there's a slight chance for "sacks of grain" to come up empty).

More options is never a bad thing. happy.gif



Posted by: Delte Oct 19 2007, 06:55 PM

QUOTE(pingveen @ Oct 19 2007, 11:44 AM)
Details of the changes are in the readme (note that my version uses a different set of percentages to RM - there's going to be more food generally in containers that have a higher social class, and there's a slight chance for "sacks of grain" to come up empty).

More options is never a bad thing. happy.gif


More options are, well, awesome. I've downloaded both tweaks, and I will try both of them.

If they work well, I think we might be looking at new canditates to Delte's List.



Posted by: Darina Oct 19 2007, 08:00 PM

Hi guys!

Just a few short observations I made while playing some of the assassin-related mods I installed a few weeks ago:

1. Lynges DB Assassins: In this mod you are attacked by DB assassins in several locations around Cyrodiil. The readme said, they won't attack you while you are in the DB yourself. Long story short, I was in the DB, I was attacked, I killed the imposter, I was expelled form the DB.
It's not going to work this way! I load it near the end and it's just an esp, so I don't think I did something wrong. Have others experienced the same?

2. Underlife: This mod adds sewers to Cheydinhal and Bravil. The mod is ok. Nothing special. It's good to sneak into some houses without being seen and it adds new entrences from outside the city. The labyrinth is inhabited with beggars, some thieves guild members (one in elven armor!?!) and some fences. The amount you sell the fences counts toward the independent thievery quest (good or not? Dunno.) I'm unsure if I keep it.

3. More poisonous ingredients for Assassins: The poisoned food has the same deadly poison effect as the DB poisoned apples. Alas, when you combine them you just get a deadly poison on self potion. Useless for murdering someone. Unless you put it in their inventory and they drink it. Haven't seen that yet. If someone has an idea how to put the fruits to good use, please tell me. Don't sure if it's a keeper.

Please correct me, if you have another opinion on these mods!

Greetz! Darina



Posted by: Elovia Oct 19 2007, 08:12 PM

QUOTE(Darina @ Oct 19 2007, 10:00 AM)
Hi guys!

...

3. More poisonous ingredients for Assassins: The poisoned food has the same deadly poison effect as the DB poisoned apples. Alas, when you combine them you just get a deadly poison on self potion. Useless for murdering someone. Unless you put it in their inventory and they drink it. Haven't seen that yet. If someone has an idea how to put the fruits to good use, please tell me. Don't sure if it's a keeper.

Please correct me, if you have another opinion on these mods!

Greetz! Darina



I haven't played an assassin type character (yet), but it is my understanding that, in order to kill someone with poisoned food, you must remove all other food from their regular eating area and replace it with the poisoned items. I may be wrong, but that is my understanding of how to use poisoned food.

E


Posted by: BHWolf Oct 19 2007, 08:15 PM

Well after spending many hours of the past week I reinstalled Oblivion, the plug-ins, SI, and all the recommended mods on this forum; I also enquired as to what means I should use to start the game, OMM, OBSE, etc.

Tonight I tested it and... It immediately crashes to desktop!!! cry_smile.gif

I have tried starting it via the OBMM laucnher, the OBSE loader, and direct with the same result for all.

Any suggestions?

If not I'm afraid it will be a choice of reinstalling from scratch again or walking away.

Such is life.... sad.gif



Posted by: Elovia Oct 19 2007, 08:23 PM

QUOTE(BHWolf @ Oct 19 2007, 10:15 AM)
Well after spending many hours of the past week I reinstalled Oblivion, the plug-ins, SI, and all the recommended mods on this forum; I also enquired as to what means I should use to start the game, OMM, OBSE, etc.

Tonight I tested it and... It immediately crashes to desktop!!! cry_smile.gif

I have tried starting it via the OBMM laucnher, the OBSE loader, and direct with the same result for all.

Any suggestions?

If not I'm afraid it will be a choice of reinstalling from scratch again or walking away.

Such is life.... sad.gif



It can get frustrating, but I've had similar immediate crashes and there are a couple suggestions you can check to fix the most common causes.

1. If you're missing an esm file, you'll crash. These are easy to miss when you're making choices between several different esp files and the esm is similarly named to one of the esp files.
2. If you're using a UI that needs new fonts (e.g., DarkUI-DarNified), make sure you put the required fonts in your 'fonts' folder AND have altered the oblivion.ini [fonts] section as listed in the readme.





Posted by: Kolyana Oct 19 2007, 08:32 PM

QUOTE(Elovia @ Oct 19 2007, 11:23 AM)
It can get frustrating, but I've had similar immediate crashes and there are a couple suggestions you can check to fix the most common causes.

1. If you're missing an esm file, you'll crash. These are easy to miss when you're making choices between several different esp files and the esm is similarly named to one of the esp files.


So if a mod comes in esp and esm format (MMM for instance), I should use the esp and simply put it high in my load order?
using OBMM I think I can convert an ESM to an ESP, right? Should I do this?

If ESMs crash games, why would anyone create one?




Posted by: BHWolf Oct 19 2007, 08:37 PM

Elovia,

I have double checked and am not missing aby ESM files; know that is right because I printed off and followed Delte's loading order.
Even went so far as to deactivate everyting including the 3 omds and it still crashes where it did not before installing the various mods, omod, obse, etc.
Strongly suspect it is something I have done wrong, but am at a loss to work out how to find out what needs to be fixed.



Posted by: Elovia Oct 19 2007, 08:38 PM

QUOTE(Kolyana @ Oct 19 2007, 10:32 AM)
So if a mod comes in esp and esm format (MMM for instance), I should use the esp and simply put it high in my load order?
using OBMM I think I can convert an ESM to an ESP, right? Should I do this?

If ESMs crash games, why would anyone create one?



No, no, no ... If a mod has both ESM and ESP, you'll most likely need both. The ESP will most likely be dependent on the ESM. If you only install the ESP and not the ESM that it relies upon, the game will crash on loading. This is generally true, but read the readme for the mod to be sure. One example where the ESM and ESP are not needed together is with 'Book Jackets - Oblivion' and 'Book Placement'. In this case, you use the Book Placement ESM and the Book Jackets-BP ESP (an esp especially written for use with Book Placement).

In the case of MMM, you need both the Mart's Monster Mod.esm AND whichever ESP file for your setup (e.g., Mart's Monster Mod for OOO.esp).




Posted by: Kolyana Oct 19 2007, 08:45 PM

QUOTE(Elovia @ Oct 19 2007, 11:38 AM)
No, no, no ... If a mod has both ESM and ESP, you'll most likely need both. The ESP will most likely be dependent on the ESM. If you only install the ESP and not the ESM that it relies upon, the game will crash on loading. This is generally true, but read the readme for the mod to be sure. One example where the ESM and ESP are not needed together is with 'Book Jackets - Oblivion' and 'Book Placement'. In this case, you use the Book Placement ESM and the Book Jackets-BP ESP (an esp especially written for use with Book Placement).

In the case of MMM, you need both the Mart's Monster Mod.esm AND whichever ESP file for your setup (e.g., Mart's Monster Mod for OOO.esp).



oh.

I do?

I am running MMM.ESM and a whole slew of MMM options .sp, but NOT MMM.ESP. I noticed that both the ESP and ESM were exactly the same file name and file size, so I assumed that I could choose which to use. Plus, I ran a conflict checker and even thought I have all of the options enabled (MMM options), none of them are reporting that they are missing a file.

Perhaps I should go turn the .esp on tongue.gif


Posted by: Elovia Oct 19 2007, 08:48 PM

QUOTE(BHWolf @ Oct 19 2007, 10:37 AM)
Elovia,

I have double checked and am not missing aby ESM files; know that is right because I printed off and followed Delte's loading order.
Even went so far as to deactivate everyting including the 3 omds and it still crashes where it did not before installing the various mods, omod, obse, etc.
Strongly suspect it is something I have done wrong, but am at a loss to work out how to find out what needs to be fixed.



I'm kind of grasping at straws at the moment, but did you also install a different UI?

And as for OBSE, did you put all of the OBSE files in the Oblivion folder (not the Oblivion/Data/ folder). Heh, I made that mistake once. How are you launching? Let's see if we can simplify the problem. Personally, I have WinXPpro, and launch the game via an OBSE shortcut on my desktop. I don't know if Vista makes a difference, if you're using Vista that is.

The last thing to do, before giving up and starting over, is to double check your install and make sure all required folders and files from your mods were put where they need to go. The large majority of readme files are good about that. Personally, I prefer to manually install all files and folders. I've noticed some zipped archive files, for whatever reason, have other compressed archives nested inside. If you accidentally installed one of those nested compressed files, then your game might crash (dunno, never tried it) ... but it is something of which to be aware.




Posted by: Elovia Oct 19 2007, 08:52 PM

QUOTE(Kolyana @ Oct 19 2007, 10:45 AM)
oh.

I do?

I am running MMM.ESM and a whole slew of MMM options .sp, but NOT MMM.ESP. I noticed that both the ESP and ESM were exactly the same file name and file size, so I assumed that I could choose which to use. Plus, I ran a conflict checker and even thought I have all of the options enabled (MMM options), none of them are reporting that they are missing a file.

Perhaps I should go turn the .esp on tongue.gif



If you open your mod load order in Wrye Bash, and then click on an ESP file, you should see a dependency list (i.e., Masters) in the right-hand pane. If those listed items are not enabled, the ESP will not work properly. smile.gif




Posted by: Kolyana Oct 19 2007, 09:00 PM

Okay, I'll check on that little puppy, although I've seen MMM monsters running around (reavers, etc) and lots of signs of the mod at work, so I'm surprised I had not have half of it enabled. Odd. I'll look into it.

Can I get the groups opinion on Deadly Reflexes?

I've been watching a lot of the videos and while the moves look awesome and some of the forthcoming ideas (throat cut, elemental effects, etc) SOUND incredible, I'm left with a feeling that they are made to satisfy a console-esque predominently male audience thirsting for blood and body parts (no offense intended to anyone, the work looks incredible, I'm just not sure I fall in the target audience).

The throat-stab, for instance, is a well animated move ... that results in a completely unrealistic FOUNTAIN of blood.
The elemental effects are exxxxtrreeeemmeeeelllyyy well done, but look like one shot kills.
Chopping someone in half? Well, maybe it could happen, but then for the entire landscape to look like a lawn sprinkler has been at work spraying blood everywhere? I dunno.

Overall it looks like the mod adds thousands of great animations and moves and I'd love to use it, but the resulting effects look over the top, have too much blood, and add too much power to the player.

I want the moves, but I want to keep my immersion factor.

Does anyone in the group use this mod?



Posted by: Elovia Oct 19 2007, 09:08 PM

I don't use Deadly Reflex for just those same reasons you mentioned, Kolyana. I'm perfectly happy with having my foes slump to the ground when they're dead. I don't need, nor want, to see fountains of blood or dismembered body parts. But I miss the animated moves ...

I've been using Skycaptain's http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13388 which makes a nice change from slash, slash, slash.




Posted by: Delte Oct 19 2007, 09:12 PM

QUOTE(Kolyana @ Oct 19 2007, 01:45 PM)
Perhaps I should go turn the .esp on tongue.gif


@BHWolf

Yep. And look at my load order I listed earlier. Double check to see that you've got all the esms and esps you see there. That's why I posted it for you.

@Kolyana

Read your readmes. Some mods require esms and multiple esps. Some mods require you to pick a single esp from the options given. But, if an esm is released with a mod, it will be needed.

Esms don't crash games. It's the missing esms (with an esp requiring that esm) that is a tale tell sign of a crashing game on startup.

As for Deadly Reflexes, the jury is out as for me using it. I'm still testing. I'm not as enamored with it as just about everybody else is, but I'm not throwing it out either. I'm going to test it a good, long while before I decide.







RE The Denock Arrows mod not working

Damnest thing I ever heard. I've used that mod for a long, long time. I've used it with a bunch of other mods, as I try mods and uninstall them. I've never had an issue with denock. It worked for me, right off the bat, and it has never given me the slightest bit of trouble.

One thought: Have you installed Thieves Arsenal before, then uninstalled it without taking out all of its pieces? This is just "figuring" about your problem, but, if you just removed the esp and not all of the TA files, then maybe your conflict lies there.







QUOTE
1. Lynges DB Assassins: In this mod you are attacked by DB assassins in several locations around Cyrodiil. The readme said, they won't attack you while you are in the DB yourself. Long story short, I was in the DB, I was attacked, I killed the imposter, I was expelled form the DB.
It's not going to work this way! I load it near the end and it's just an esp, so I don't think I did something wrong. Have others experienced the same?


@Darina

RE: Dark Brotherhood Assassins


I'm in the middle of the road on this mod, too. I tried it. It's seems a little buggy. I was ambushed, and one of the ambusher had the "crown" on him, so that he couldn't be killed. I'm not sure how I was supposed to have survived that encounter.

Part of their ruse was to have one of the assassins "play dead". There was a body of a dead Imperial guard close by, behind a rock. Plus, the face on the imposter Imperial was done quite well. I thought the whole ambush was set up great.

It's just that other parts of the mod seem to bring the quality down. The "crown" I mention earlier. The fact that, the dead body clipped into the ground (looked like he was amost buried, merged with the ground).

Plus, I had two ambushes on the same day. They seem to happen at certain locations, regardless of where you've been or if you were attacked earlier. In my case, it was just an hour later that I stumbled into another ambush.

That needs to be tweaked.

And...was it me, or is there an fps hit associated with this mod? It sure seemed like it was, but could have been another mod since I'm testing several atm.







RE Real Hunger v1.4 with CptJoker's Grumbling Sounds
I tried this puppy out, and it's simply brilliant. It's BRILLIANT folks. It's a great upgrade for RH.

I was worried that the hunger sounds would be "off". That they'd be either too low to hear or loud and "unprofessional" sounding.

They're great! They're awesome! Their perfect!

I love how Joker has provided all sorts of options with his download, too. You can pick which one suits your game best. I used the one (of course) that could be used with the MMM foods but was marked "Immersive" (meaning, the text telling you that you're hungry has been removed).

Here, I was worried that Joker might take out too much of the text. There are messages that you do need--that hunger pain sounds aren't going to cover for you.

Again, Joker was the utmost professional on this. Just the right messages were removed from the mod. The others, that you need, are still there.

Great job, Joker! Clap...clap, clap....clap, clap, clap. action-smiley-030.gif I'm going to play with this a while longer, just to do the extensive testing I promise I'll do at the top of Post #2, but I don't see any reason why this version of RH shouldn't become part of Delte's List.

I'll say it again. Great job.

(That Delte's Thread membership card I was going to take away? Well, I'll have to approve it for "life" now, with a gold star. We'll just look the other way when you bring up the idea that you use an encumbrence boosting mod!)



Posted by: Elovia Oct 19 2007, 09:19 PM

QUOTE(Delte @ Oct 19 2007, 11:12 AM)
RE Real Hunger v1.4 with CptJoker's Grumbling Sounds
I tried this puppy out, and it's simply brilliant. It's BRILLIANT folks. It's a great upgrade for RH.

I was worried that the hunger sounds would be "off". That they'd be either too low to hear or loud and "unprofessional" sounding.

They're great! They're awesome! Their perfect!



Maybe I'm just deaf, but I've yet to hear the sounds. My character's hunger got to the point of needing 11 food units, and I still did not hear the tummy rumbling. I also chose to use the regular version (RH 1.4 with Immersive Grumble Sounds.esp).

At what point(s) should we expect the noises to occur?




Posted by: pingveen Oct 19 2007, 09:23 PM

QUOTE(Delte @ Oct 19 2007, 12:55 PM)
More options are, well, awesome. I've downloaded both tweaks, and I will try both of them.

If they work well, I think we might be looking at new canditates to Delte's List.


Let me know how it fares. I'm considering going further with the idea and creating (or re-creating) some new content to go along with this -
1) rotten/spoiled/tainted food (asQarne's mod is great, but appears abandoned. I'd like to see some more variety in decomposition as well)
2) cured/dried foods and preserves (Mmm-mmm, hard tack and lutefisk (If you don't know what this is, consider yourself lucky). Or sausage, jerky, jams, pickles, etc. Ya know, off-season foods for societies without refrigeration... Which appears to only be of concern in vanilla content for Morrowind and the Shivering Isles)
3) Maybe a little extra love for SI (There's an opening for some truly exotic and potentially gross food stuffs here...)


Posted by: Kolyana Oct 19 2007, 09:26 PM

QUOTE(Elovia @ Oct 19 2007, 12:19 PM)
Maybe I'm just deaf, but I've yet to hear the sounds. My character's hunger got to the point of needing 11 food units, and I still did not hear the tummy rumbling. I also chose to use the regular version (RH 1.4 with Immersive Grumble Sounds.esp).

At what point(s) should we expect the noises to occur?


I had this also and ended up moving RH 1.4 Immersive to near the end of my load order, after all of my MMM stuff and just before the DLCs.


Posted by: Delte Oct 19 2007, 09:33 PM

QUOTE(Elovia @ Oct 19 2007, 02:19 PM)
Maybe I'm just deaf, but I've yet to hear the sounds. My character's hunger got to the point of needing 11 food units, and I still did not hear the tummy rumbling. I also chose to use the regular version (RH 1.4 with Immersive Grumble Sounds.esp).

At what point(s) should we expect the noises to occur?


@Elovia

They occurs when the old message would pop up, when your tune is hungry.

Make sure you've disabled the old Real Hunger mod. I made the mistake and forgot to do that the first time around (since Joker's mod is named differently, you'll have two RH's now) and I didn't see any changes. I looked at my load order, slapped my forehead, and realized I hadn't disabled the original RH.)







@Pingveen and RebelMax

I've got both of your mods loaded. I'm going to test them out next. I noticed, Pingveen, that your readme says to not use Q's More And Moldy Ingredients, but I thought I'd be a rebel and see what happens with both mods loaded.

So, I've got RebelMax's tweaked MaMI loaded along with Pingveen's new Less Food mod. I've only checked about five barrels, but so far, no food! That's great!

I'm intersted to see both how the less frequency of available food effect game play (I am soooooo looking forward to that...I think it's going to be awesome), and I'm intersted to see if I still find some moldy foods from time to time.

I'll report back on these mods once I've played with them for a while.






QUOTE
I had this also and ended up moving RH 1.4 Immersive to near the end of my load order, after all of my MMM stuff and just before the DLCs.


@Elovia and Kolyana

I have it loaded fairly low, too. I've always had the four realism mods loaded fairly late in my load order (see the one I posted recently).

@Kolyana

Why do you have the DLC's loaded late?

Really, the only one that needs to be loaded late is KotN. The others, I load fairly early (see the load list). I'm just curious why you decided to load them all late.


Posted by: Delte Oct 19 2007, 09:41 PM

Question: Using wine/ale/beer in OOO?



Someone said, earlier in the list, that approaching bottles of brew in an inn will give you an option: Pick up or Drink.

I don't get this option. I get the "red hand", and I can steal it. But there is no option to "drink".

What gives?




Posted by: Kestor Oct 19 2007, 09:44 PM

Hi Delte !
I was wondering what made you give your character the name "Pugg" ? It's a rather unique name wink.gif



Posted by: Timsup2nothin Oct 19 2007, 09:46 PM

QUOTE(Kolyana @ Oct 19 2007, 12:00 PM)
Okay, I'll check on that little puppy, although I've seen MMM monsters running around (reavers, etc) and lots of signs of the mod at work, so I'm surprised I had not have half of it enabled. Odd. I'll look into it.

Can I get the groups opinion on Deadly Reflexes?

I've been watching a lot of the videos and while the moves look awesome and some of the forthcoming ideas (throat cut, elemental effects, etc) SOUND incredible, I'm left with a feeling that they are made to satisfy a console-esque predominently male audience thirsting for blood and body parts (no offense intended to anyone, the work looks incredible, I'm just not sure I fall in the target audience).

The throat-stab, for instance, is a well animated move ... that results in a completely unrealistic FOUNTAIN of blood.
The elemental effects are exxxxtrreeeemmeeeelllyyy well done, but look like one shot kills.
Chopping someone in half? Well, maybe it could happen, but then for the entire landscape to look like a lawn sprinkler has been at work spraying blood everywhere? I dunno.

Overall it looks like the mod adds thousands of great animations and moves and I'd love to use it, but the resulting effects look over the top, have too much blood, and add too much power to the player.

I want the moves, but I want to keep my immersion factor.

Does anyone in the group use this mod?



Couple points here...

First, I'm not at my game machine to check. The fountains of blood are a bit over the top...okay, a lot over the top... but I'm pretty sure there was a 'less gore' option at installation so you shouldn't let that stand in the way.

As to giving too much power to the player, that is actually reversed. In most cases the 'one shot kill' only happens if the opponent is so thoroughly beaten down that they are at least pretty close to a one shot kill anyway, and the occassional kill of someone who might have survived for one more shot otherwise will only matter if it kills someone who would have killed you in the extra interim that DR stole from them. On the other hand, in every fight the opponents will use jumps, blocks, and dodges that they otherwise wouldn't, and generally put up much better resistance to getting whacked by the player.

DR probably will never be said to add to immersion, even if the gore is turned down to a realistic level (ever actually seen a head cut off, btw? I imagine that would be quite messy. Lot's of 'arterial spray' as they say on CSI. Anyway...)

From a gameplay standpoint, which I am notorious for rating higher than immersion, DR is about a halfstep short of 'absolutely essential'. Now if I can just hide my gameplay butt before Delte kicks it right off his immersion thread... Bolt.sml.gif


Posted by: Elovia Oct 19 2007, 09:47 PM

QUOTE(Delte @ Oct 19 2007, 11:33 AM)
@Elovia

They occurs when the old message would pop up, when your tune is hungry.

Make sure you've disabled the old Real Hunger mod. I made the mistake and forgot to do that the first time around (since Joker's mod is named differently, you'll have two RH's now) and I didn't see any changes. I looked at my load order, slapped my forehead, and realized I hadn't disabled the original RH.)

@Elovia and Kolyana

I have it loaded fairly low, too. I've always had the four realism mods loaded fairly late in my load order (see the one I posted recently).



Yeah, I did disable the old Real Hunder mod, and I put the new one in the exact same spot on in my load order. To stave off the followup question: yes, I also copied the sound folder to where it needed to go. I just wonder if the tummy rumbling is the wrong frequency-range for my ears. Maybe what I'll do is go back and install the less immersive version, so I can see the message and then know whether or not I was able to hear the sound. smile.gif




Posted by: pingveen Oct 19 2007, 09:50 PM

QUOTE(Delte @ Oct 19 2007, 03:33 PM)
@Pingveen and RebelMax

I've got both of your mods loaded. I'm going to test them out next. I noticed, Pingveen, that your readme says to not use Q's More And Moldy Ingredients, but I thought I'd be a rebel and see what happens with both mods loaded.

So, I've got RebelMax's tweaked MaMI loaded along with Pingveen's new Less Food mod. I've only checked about five barrels, but so far, no food! That's great!

I'm intersted to see both how the less frequency of available food effect game play (I am soooooo looking forward to that...I think it's going to be awesome), and I'm intersted to see if I still find some moldy foods from time to time.

I'll report back on these mods once I've played with them for a while.


Ok, if you're going to be a rebel, let me make a suggestion on load order:

less-food-ob.esp
Q-More and Moldy Ingredients.esp
less-food-si.esp

This will end up with the ideal override pattern. You'll keep my change to the grain sacks (the small chance of the sack not having anything) and changes to the lists that Rebel Max did not alter (which will include SI), and you'll get the chance for moldy ingredients on the off chance that you do find food in a barrel. Loading less-food-ob.esp after Q-More and Moldy Ingredients will cause no moldy ingredients to be found anywhere - but you'll be able to keep your existing ingredients.

Edit: Regarding the bottles in taverns in OOO - I get the same behavior - Names have the hyphens surrounding them, but the script to "have a drink" doesn't activate, leading to angry "stop thief!" when I've tried.



Posted by: Elovia Oct 19 2007, 09:52 PM

QUOTE(Delte @ Oct 19 2007, 11:41 AM)
Question: Using wine/ale/beer in OOO?
Someone said, earlier in the list, that approaching bottles of brew in an inn will give you an option: Pick up or Drink.

I don't get this option. I get the "red hand", and I can steal it. But there is no option to "drink".

What gives?



I have a similar load setup as you do, Delte, and I don't get the option to drink either. I remember back from when I had FCOM installed that I DID have that option. I wonder if the drink option is a product of either merged lists or FCOM itself.




Posted by: Kolyana Oct 19 2007, 09:57 PM

QUOTE(Delte @ Oct 19 2007, 12:33 PM)
@Kolyana

Why do you have the DLC's loaded late?

Really, the only one that needs to be loaded late is KotN. The others, I load fairly early (see the load list). I'm just curious why you decided to load them all late.


I asked about load order a few weeks ago and several people said to put them LAST until they're done. unsure.gif

This was also pointed out to me:
http://devnull.devakm.googlepages.com/loadorder


Posted by: Timsup2nothin Oct 19 2007, 10:06 PM

QUOTE(Timsup2nothin @ Oct 19 2007, 12:46 PM)
Couple points here...

First, I'm not at my game machine to check. The fountains of blood are a bit over the top...okay, a lot over the top... but I'm pretty sure there was a 'less gore' option at installation so you shouldn't let that stand in the way.

As to giving too much power to the player, that is actually reversed. In most cases the 'one shot kill' only happens if the opponent is so thoroughly beaten down that they are at least pretty close to a one shot kill anyway, and the occassional kill of someone who might have survived for one more shot otherwise will only matter if it kills someone who would have killed you in the extra interim that DR stole from them. On the other hand, in every fight the opponents will use jumps, blocks, and dodges that they otherwise wouldn't, and generally put up much better resistance to getting whacked by the player.

DR probably will never be said to add to immersion, even if the gore is turned down to a realistic level (ever actually seen a head cut off, btw? I imagine that would be quite messy. Lot's of 'arterial spray' as they say on CSI. Anyway...)

From a gameplay standpoint, which I am notorious for rating higher than immersion, DR is about a halfstep short of 'absolutely essential'. Now if I can just hide my gameplay butt before Delte kicks it right off his immersion thread... Bolt.sml.gif


Correction: the option for reduced gore was something else...DR is what it is and is as bloody as it is. You can however turn off the critical hits completely by turning the chance down to 0% so that you get the dodging enemies and no arterial spray.


Posted by: BHWolf Oct 19 2007, 10:08 PM

Well people,

Looks like the only way I would get this game to work the way I want is to uninstall the lot and start over again.
After nearly 900 hours of play before and this week past working on TES4, I am not inclined to spend another week trying to get the game up to speed whilst grinding through the vanilla.

This past week has been a perverse sense of pleasure working again on the game, but.....

May I take this opportunity to thank those for their help, guidance and support, particularly Delte.
This thread includes a great bunch of people and I wish you all well.

Enjoy and farewell.




Posted by: Timsup2nothin Oct 19 2007, 10:13 PM

QUOTE(BHWolf @ Oct 19 2007, 01:08 PM)
Well people,

Looks like the only way I would get this game to work the way I want is to uninstall the lot and start over again.
After nearly 900 hours of play before and this week past working on TES4, I am not inclined to spend another week trying to get the game up to speed whilst grinding through the vanilla.

This past week has been a perverse sense of pleasure working again on the game, but.....

May I take this opportunity to thank those for their help, guidance and support, particularly Delte.
This thread includes a great bunch of people and I wish you all well.

Enjoy and farewell.


Before you give up completely, I have a very short mod list that makes a really great game...not as immersive as Delte's, but you might well like it...I do. And it's all easy install and known compatible.


Posted by: Darina Oct 19 2007, 10:13 PM

@BHWolf

One last idea from me: You said you reinstalled Oblivion from scratch?
Did you delete the Oblivion.ini in the my games/oblivion folder?

Because the changes other mods may have made are still in there and that may lead to CTD right before the main menu. I had the same prob with my first FCOM install.

So try to delete the ini and start a new game (best without any mods). The game will create a new (vanilla) ini. Then add your mods in several steps and look how stable your game is.

Hope that helps! It would be a pity to turn your back on this great game! flamed.gif

Best wishes! Darina

Edit: Hey, don't go! Try this first!

PS: Delte, it seems the Lynges Assassin mod has some flaws. It's a pity, but I can't afford to be kicked out of the DB every few hours! This could be a great mod! Maybe Lynges looks into this again?



Posted by: Delte Oct 19 2007, 10:17 PM

QUOTE(Kestor @ Oct 19 2007, 02:44 PM)
I was wondering what made you give your character the name "Pugg" ? It's a rather unique name wink.gif


@Kestor

I just made it up. I devised a backstory for him. He's an orphan. Knows nothing of his parents. He grew up on the streets of the Imperial City begging for scraps and stealing when he could. He's been a survivor.

But, he really doesn't even know his own name...or if he has one. As he grew up, some of the older beggers would call him "the little pugg", so that's where he got it. The name stuck. And, that's what he goes by: Pugg.

When I deciding on my character's name, I considered the background I had devised for him. I came up with "Pugg" because it sounded like something his lose affiliations on the street would call him. "Hey, look at that little pugg!" "C'mere, Pugg, I wanna show ya somethin'".

I figure he was called "Pugg" when he was small, being the little street urchin that he was, and it just stuck (for lack of anything better...he never found out his real name).

As for the term "pugg" itself, I figure it's street talk for the little street urchins that roam the cobblestones of Imperial City. "Thug" is not appropriate. These little orphans aren't quite thugs, but they are "punks".

Thus...Pugg.



(The Tears of the Fiend quest mod, which I am currently playing, is actually fitting Pugg's backstory rather nicely, btw...)







QUOTE
DR probably will never be said to add to immersion, even if the gore is turned down to a realistic level (ever actually seen a head cut off, btw? I imagine that would be quite messy. Lot's of 'arterial spray' as they say on CSI. Anyway...)

From a gameplay standpoint, which I am notorious for rating higher than immersion, DR is about a halfstep short of 'absolutely essential'. Now if I can just hide my gameplay butt before Delte kicks it right off his immersion thread...


@Timesup2nothin

This is probably why I think DR is "OK" and worth looking into further while you and the majority of the forum think its absolutely essential. It's the immersion factor.

I like a lot of things about DR, though. I"m going to keep playing with it.

Plus, I've been known to change my mind. These thristy Delte's Thread readers set me straight on Blind Lockpicking now. I've turn around 180 degrees on it. I'm now a fan. Maybe I'll be a rabid fan of Deadly Reflexes someday as well.







QUOTE
Ok, if you're going to be a rebel, let me make a suggestion on load order:

less-food-ob.esp
Q-More and Moldy Ingredients.esp
less-food-si.esp

This will end up with the ideal override pattern.


@Pingveen

Absolutely. Fixed in my load order.

I'm just trying this, btw. What are your big concerns using both mods?

QUOTE
Edit: Regarding the bottles in taverns in OOO - I get the same behavior - Names have the hyphens surrounding them, but the script to "have a drink" doesn't activate, leading to angry "stop thief!" when I've tried.


That's exactly how it works for me. This might be a question for the OOO thread.







QUOTE
I asked about load order a few weeks ago and several people said to put them LAST until they're done.


@Kolyana

Interesting. Thanks. Maybe I'll move them in my load order. I'd read about Knights before, but I thought the others were find loaded high.



Posted by: Gato Oct 19 2007, 10:21 PM

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=12018

What about this to replace the vanilla lockpick game?



Posted by: Timsup2nothin Oct 19 2007, 10:31 PM

QUOTE(Delte @ Oct 19 2007, 01:17 PM)
This is probably why I think DR is "OK" and worth looking into further while you and the majority of the forum think its absolutely essential. It's the immersion factor.

I like a lot of things about DR, though. I"m going to keep playing with it.

Plus, I've been known to change my mind. These thristy Delte's Thread readers set me straight on Blind Lockpicking now. I've turn around 180 degrees on it. I'm now a fan. Maybe I'll be a rabid fan of Deadly Reflexes someday as well.


Even if you come to a point where you say DR is great and you would never play without it, it would really never be appropriate to endorse it as 'immersive'. I consider it to be as pure a 'gameplay' mod as there is, and the most I would ever expect for it in this thread is a 'not immersion breaking' rating. Without going out and lopping some heads off to see what happens for myself I'm willing to give it that.


Posted by: RebelMax Oct 19 2007, 10:53 PM

@Elovia
Just tested RH 1.4 with Immersive Grumble Sounds.esp and it works just fine. Try messing around with your load order. I suggest you to put RH esp as low as possible.

PS: Damn nice sound, CptJoker! It makes me want something to eat too! biggrin.gif



Posted by: pingveen Oct 19 2007, 11:00 PM

QUOTE(Delte @ Oct 19 2007, 04:17 PM)
@Pingveen
Absolutely. Fixed in my load order.

I'm just trying this, btw. What are your big concerns using both mods?


With the load order I provided, there should be no problems. You'll be using mostly RM's lists, which are a bit more aggressive than mine, so no real concerns. Unless you start starving... smile.gif


Posted by: thylantyr Oct 19 2007, 11:27 PM

QUOTE(Gato @ Oct 19 2007, 03:21 PM)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=12018

What about this to replace the vanilla lockpick game?


Vanilla Oblivion and it's lock picking mini-game is an immersion killer, plus if you don't care about immersion,
it bugs that I have to play Oblivion then play another game that I'm not interested in to pick a lock.

I installed Zumbs early on and it has been working pretty nicely... You equip your 'pick' and click the mouse
and it does the 'math' based on skills to see if you are succesful - the way the game should have been designed.

Catch 22

Zumbs doesn't place the vanilla Oblivion lock pick mini-game, it still exists. In other words, if you go up to a chest
and press the space bar, the mini-game shows up - arg!!!!.... you have to remember to press a hot key to use the
'zumbs special picks'.

Final gripe. If you do use Oblivion's lock pick mini-game, it's very hard to exit that game if you entered that mode
by accident as the mouse cursor doesn't show up for you to select 'exit'. You have to fiddle with the mouse to get
the curser to show up {unless of course there is a better way to exit, lol }.






Posted by: Delte Oct 19 2007, 11:40 PM

QUOTE(thylantyr @ Oct 19 2007, 04:27 PM)
Vanilla Oblivion and it's lock picking mini-game is an immersion killer, plus if you don't care about immersion,
it bugs that I have to play Oblivion then play another game that I'm not interested in to pick a lock.


I actually quite like the lockpick minigame. I like the Blind Lockpicking even more, now.

Never have liked the Persuasion mini-game, though, and finding the Perusasion Overhaul was a gawd-send.

QUOTE
Catch 22

Zumbs doesn't place the vanilla Oblivion lock pick mini-game, it still exists. In other words, if you go up to a chest
and press the space bar, the mini-game shows up - arg!!!!.... you have to remember to press a hot key to use the
'zumbs special picks'.


Simple enough fix for this: Just re-assign your keys. Can you re-assign the hot key in Zumbs to the space bar or whatever key you prefer?

My space bar is my "Dodge" using Deadly Reflex. My "Jump" is my Left Alt. My activate key is the "C" key.



Posted by: Briareos Oct 19 2007, 11:46 PM

QUOTE(Delte @ Oct 17 2007, 08:52 PM)
MOD REPORT: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11778
*snip*
I'd like to have my opinion swayed another way, because this really is a damn fine mod.


Ok I'll make an attempt. If you read the book http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/fg_history.shtml one of the guilds it mentions is the Guild of Tinkers. This could be interpreted two ways depending which definition of "tinker" they would be using (assuming it hasn't been pointed out elsewhere in the lore that I haven't been able to find). It could mean "A traveling mender of metal household utensils." or "One who enjoys experimenting with and repairing machine parts.". Pick which definition you like I suppose. Now you could argue for the second definition that the clocks are made of Dwemer parts (since if everyone could manufacture the parts then you'd likely see other types of machinery) pieced together, to make the clocks, or possibly original Dwemer clocks, just relocated and given shiny new housings.

Unlikely? Yeah, but it's the best I could come up with.

:::

And to reiterate a question I asked in the last thread:
QUOTE(Briareos)
I've been using OOO since the beginning of my current game (184 hours with 1416 saves (yeah I know, I'm a save-aholic)). I believe I still have version 1.31 running. I've never used MMM though, mostly because before this thread series I just figured to stick with OOO since it made use of some of what MMM offers. Well I will probably change up to MMM at least now, but first I have a question.

FCOM. I've only really heard it referred to in passing, and only really found out what it actually was yesterday. I've never used the Warcry mod but it looks ok, though it could be a little immersion breaking based on the trailer. So how does FCOM rate in Immersion? It seems a great way of getting the benefits of all the big mods, but I don't know enough about it yet, especially in regards to immersion, to decide if I want it or not.


Actually up to 191 hours and 1445 saves since now.

Still wondering how FCOM measures up though.


Posted by: CptJoker Oct 20 2007, 12:25 AM

QUOTE(Delte @ Oct 19 2007, 08:12 PM)
Clap...clap, clap....clap, clap, clap.


*bows* biggrin.gif

It was nothing. Like waking up and designing a better guillotine.

QUOTE(Delte @ Oct 19 2007, 08:41 PM)
Question: Using wine/ale/beer in OOO?
Someone said, earlier in the list, that approaching bottles of brew in an inn will give you an option: Pick up or Drink.

I don't get this option. I get the "red hand", and I can steal it. But there is no option to "drink".


QUOTE(Elovia @ Oct 19 2007, 08:52 PM)
I have a similar load setup as you do, Delte, and I don't get the option to drink either. I remember back from when I had FCOM installed that I DID have that option. I wonder if the drink option is a product of either merged lists or FCOM itself.


Me neither! I'm using OOO myself - possibly a result of OOO RC1.32 and/or recent compatibility patches?


QUOTE(Delte)
snip Clocks of Cyrodiil


Well... The first mechanical clocks - particularly those powered by pendulum, as we see in the game - started appearing around the 17th century, and spring-powered ones had been around as far back as the 15th century. It really comes down to your definition of the mechanical sophistication of Tamrielic society: is it closer to the dark ages, where books, innovation and education was generally sparse? The game certainly seems to be rather well-stocked on books - indeed, you can't go anywhere without running into them! So we can assume that it's a fairly literate society. Also the prevalence of such organised bodies as the Fighters' and Mages' Guilds (which seem to be intertwined into the very structure of society) further suggest that we are dealing with an organised nation of artisans and cunning artificiers. Do you, layman of the modern age, have any better idea now how clockwork works than the layman back then? smile.gif

I really like being able to look at the time. I even slowed the timescale to 1 so that I wouldn't break immersion when I did it either. I may not agree whole-heartedly with some of the textures used, but nothing ever jumps out to really break the game for me. Mostly it's just a matter of taste, and who am I to say what a clock should look like in the middle ages?

The real reason why such innovation might be less prevalent in Tamriel than in an equivalent medieval society is that they have magic for a crutch: necessity is always the mother of invention.

What I'd love to see are sun dials, however... That's an idea anyone can get behind. biggrin.gif


Posted by: thylantyr Oct 20 2007, 12:32 AM

QUOTE(Delte @ Oct 19 2007, 04:40 PM)
Can you re-assign the hot key in Zumbs to the space bar or whatever key you prefer?

My space bar is my "Dodge" using Deadly Reflex. My "Jump" is my Left Alt. My activate key is the "C" key.


I could be wrong, but Zumbs uses *items* in the inventory that need to be equipped by accessing the inventory screen,
but you can assign the item to the keys 1 - 8 as you would a sword, spell, etc.

I don't know how to deactive the Oblivion 'lock picking' minigame, if you know how - shweeet..... I hate it. smile.gif


Posted by: Delte Oct 20 2007, 12:34 AM

QUOTE(Briareos @ Oct 19 2007, 04:46 PM)
Ok I'll make an attempt. If you read the book http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/fg_history.shtml one of the guilds it mentions is the Guild of Tinkers. This could be interpreted two ways depending which definition of "tinker" they would be using (assuming it hasn't been pointed out elsewhere in the lore that I haven't been able to find). It could mean "A traveling mender of metal household utensils." or "One who enjoys experimenting with and repairing machine parts.". Pick which definition you like I suppose. Now you could argue for the second definition that the clocks are made of Dwemer parts (since if everyone could manufacture the parts then you'd likely see other types of machinery) pieced together, to make the clocks, or possibly original Dwemer clocks, just relocated and given shiny new housings.

Unlikely? Yeah, but it's the best I could come up with.


That's a hell of a try! You definitely get an "E" for effort!

But, alas, I agree it is unlikely. The Clocks do not seem very lore friendly to me, given all we know about Cyrodiil, and for that reason, I still find the mod immersion-breaking.

As for FCOM, I can't answer. I'm damn happy with OOO+MMM, and, to be honest FCOM doesn't interest me that much. Oh, I'd certainly try it if the install weren't so damn hard. But, why go through all those steps, and then have to unistall all those steps, if I don't like it? Plus, I'd probably mess up my current OOO game.

For that reason, I'm sticking with OOO+MMM. I've got the game (see Delte's List) just where I like it. Rockin' the boat doesn't make a lot of sense.



Posted by: thylantyr Oct 20 2007, 12:39 AM

Well... The first mechanical clocks - particularly those powered by pendulum, as we see in the game - started appearing around the 17th century, and spring-powered ones had been around as far back as the 15th century. It really comes down to your definition of the mechanical sophistication of Tamrielic society: is it closer to the dark ages, where books, innovation and education was generally sparse? The game certainly seems to be rather well-stocked on books - indeed, you can't go anywhere without running into them! So we can assume that it's a fairly literate society.

-->mechanical sophistication of Tamrielic society

They aren't skilled in mechanics? -> but they have people skilled in the art of defying what we would call the laws of physics, execute crazy magic and the world is manifested
with crazy evil monsters. Perhaps the only thing that parallels real life is the vanilla Oblivion guard behavior - commit a crime, the cops will chase you forever smile.gif



Posted by: Delte Oct 20 2007, 12:46 AM

QUOTE(CptJoker @ Oct 19 2007, 05:25 PM)
Me neither! I'm using OOO myself - possibly a result of OOO RC1.32 and/or recent compatibility patches?


RE Drinking Stuff in OOO

I just found out on the OOO thread that feature was taken out of the mod in 1.31 or 1.32. So, those that have that functionality are using 1.3.

Whew, I feel much better now that I know that.



QUOTE
Well... The first mechanical clocks - particularly those powered by pendulum, as we see in the game - started appearing around the 17th century, and spring-powered ones had been around as far back as the 15th century.


RE Clocks of Cyrodiil

That kinda serves my decision not to recommend the mod from an immersion standpoint. Max technology in Cyrodiil, if you're comparing it to the real world, is the 16th century.

QUOTE
It really comes down to your definition of the mechanical sophistication of Tamrielic society: is it closer to the dark ages, where books, innovation and education was generally sparse?


It comes down to more than that, though. It comes down to the lore in the world. How many mechanical devices do you see in vanilla game? Not much. Anything that is mechanical is attributed to that "other" type of magic (technology) that died with the dwemer race.

As I allude in my Mod Review of Clocks of Cyrodiil, if these clocks are spread all over Cyrodiil like that, then why don't the mages hire someone to contruct a brand new Orrery instead of having to find ancient dwemer artifacts to get it running? Yes, the Orrery is much more advanced than a simple clock, but the gears and mechanisms seem to be in the same family.

If there were things like music boxes as clutter in the game, I'd be more inclined to accept the Clocks. But, there isn't. Yes, the Clocks are damn cool. I think the author did a fantabulous job on that mod.

But, I also think it is very immersion breaking. The Clocks really don't fit into Cyrodiilic Lore.


Posted by: thylantyr Oct 20 2007, 12:52 AM

re: FCOM [or any other combination of mods]

People are missing out because they think they need to do one installation when they can do more than one. I have 7 Oblivion installation right now,
I can choose any one of those installs to play provided that I keep a copy of the 'saved game stuff' with each.

Don't expect to recyle the same character for each install.

All you have to do is execute the basic Oblivion installation. In my case, it was to install all official expansions, patches, then add
the unofficial patches.

Make a backup copy of this basic installation, ie

1. Copy the Oblivion folder to a new folder, lets say it's called Oblivion-basic folder.
2. Copy 'my documents/game/oblivion folder to a new folder, lets say my 'my documents/game/oblivion-basic'.

Install whatever mods you want and play your game.

Later you want to try FCOM?
1. Copy the Oblivion folder to a new folder, lets say it's called Oblivion-game1 folder.
2. Copy 'my documents/game/oblivion folder to a new folder, lets say my 'my documents/game/oblivion-game1'.
3. Delete the Oblivion folder and 'my documents/game/oblivion folder '.
4. Copy the Oblivion-basic folder to -> Oblivion folder.
5. Copy 'my documents/game/oblivion folder to 'my documents/game/oblivion' folder.

You have your basic install backup, your game1 backup and now you can install a fresh FCOM
without worries. I will do this procedure to try out the T.I.E mod when it's released.







Posted by: CptJoker Oct 20 2007, 01:03 AM

QUOTE(Delte @ Oct 19 2007, 11:46 PM)
As I allude in my Mod Review of Clocks of Cyrodiil, if these clocks are spread all over Cyrodiil like that, then why don't the mages hire someone to contruct a brand new Orrery instead of having to find ancient dwemer artifacts to get it running? Yes, the Orrery is much more advanced than a simple clock, but the gears and mechanisms seem to be in the same family.

If there were things like music boxes as clutter in the game, I'd be more inclined to accept the Clocks. But, there isn't. Yes, the Clocks are damn cool. I think the author did a fantabulous job on that mod.

But, I also think it is very immersion breaking. The Clocks really don't fit into Cyrodiilic Lore.


Fair points, and I accept your view entirely: from a total-realism approach, the clocks leave something to be desired.

Perhaps my ignorance of greater Tamriel lore (beyond Morrowind sadly) is actually a blessing: for me the clocks are rather cool additions that remove an annoyance, which is having to pause and go to the menu to check the time (because I can - that is part of the game already!) So for me this is a more immersive way to do it - which is my side of the argument. biggrin.gif

Maybe we just need to make music-boxes and other tinkerer clutter. As much as this is Bethesda's "baby" I think a lot of the best additions come from the community. There are some things that just should have already been in the game.

Like sundials... smile.gif


Posted by: Arwen Oct 20 2007, 01:15 AM

QUOTE(thylantyr @ Oct 19 2007, 06:52 PM)
re: FCOM [or any other combination of mods]
All you have to do is execute the basic Oblivion installation. In my case, it was to install all official expansions, patches, then add
the unofficial patches.

Make a backup copy of this basic installation, ie

1. Copy the Oblivion folder to a new folder, lets say it's called Oblivion-basic folder.
2. Copy 'my documents/game/oblivion folder to a new folder, lets say my 'my documents/game/oblivion-basic'.

Install whatever mods you want and play your game...

This is exactly what I did when I was trying to decide between Fran's and OOO . . . and it worked great!

If my game gets messed up somehow, I just delete my Oblivion folder, make a copy of my OB-BAK folder, and rename the copy Oblivion - then I just have to enable my installed mods with OBMM.


Posted by: Briareos Oct 20 2007, 01:27 AM

QUOTE(thylantyr @ Oct 19 2007, 06:52 PM)
re: FCOM [or any other combination of mods]

People are missing out because they think they need to do one installation when they can do more than one. I have 7 Oblivion installation right now,
I can choose any one of those installs to play provided that I keep a copy of the 'saved game stuff' with each.

Don't expect to recyle the same character for each install.

All you have to do is execute the basic Oblivion installation. In my case, it was to install all official expansions, patches, then add
the unofficial patches.

Make a backup copy of this basic installation, ie

1. Copy the Oblivion folder to a new folder, lets say it's called Oblivion-basic folder.
2. Copy 'my documents/game/oblivion folder to a new folder, lets say my 'my documents/game/oblivion-basic'.

Install whatever mods you want and play your game.

Later you want to try FCOM?
1. Copy the Oblivion folder to a new folder, lets say it's called Oblivion-game1 folder.
2. Copy 'my documents/game/oblivion folder to a new folder, lets say my 'my documents/game/oblivion-game1'.
3. Delete the Oblivion folder and 'my documents/game/oblivion folder '.
4. Copy the Oblivion-basic folder to -> Oblivion folder.
5. Copy 'my documents/game/oblivion folder to 'my documents/game/oblivion' folder.

You have your basic install backup, your game1 backup and now you can install a fresh FCOM
without worries. I will do this procedure to try out the T.I.E mod when it's released.


Is there any kind of program available to simplify the process any? Not that it's particularly complex, but when my savegame folder is over 3GB and my current installation is over 7GB, that takes a while to move. At least it's enough of a deterrent to keep me from doing that on a regular basis. I have my game installed onto a separate drive I use just for installations. It still has 84GB (at least 30GB is being used by outdated backup folders from the last time I reformatted though) so I'm not too worried about space there, but my save file, "My Documents\My Games\Oblivion\Saves", is on a drive with only 2.6GB of space left. On that note is there any way to get your game to save somewhere other than in that "My Documents" directory? It would be nice to have multiple characters at once with different plugins.

QUOTE(CptJoker @ Oct 19 2007, 06:25 PM)
*snip*
What I'd love to see are sun dials, however... That's an idea anyone can get behind. biggrin.gif


I've been wanting sundials for a while now. I wonder if it could be scripted to have an inventory sundial (in addition to regular ones around the cities and towns) that you could have to face north then click in your inventory to place it on the ground (level ground) and then see the time. Would be very cool if that could be done.

QUOTE(Delte @ Oct 19 2007, 06:46 PM)
RE Drinking Stuff in OOO

I just found out on the OOO thread that feature was taken out of the mod in 1.31 or 1.32. So, those that have that functionality are using 1.3.

Whew, I feel much better now that I know that.


I'm using 1.31 here so it must have been 1.32 that nixed it.


Posted by: Delte Oct 20 2007, 01:31 AM

QUOTE(Briareos @ Oct 19 2007, 06:27 PM)
It still has 84GB (at least 30GB is being used by outdated backup folders from the last time I reformatted though) so I'm not too worried about space there, but my save file, "My Documents\My Games\Oblivion\Saves", is on a drive with only 2.6GB of space left.


I'm a saving fool too, but, jeezz, man, get rid of some of those saves. Keep the last ten or so, and nix the rest. You're never going to go back that far anyway.



Posted by: CptJoker Oct 20 2007, 01:38 AM

QUOTE(Delte @ Oct 20 2007, 12:31 AM)
You're never going to go back that far anyway.


I disagree! I'm a saving fool myself, but whenever I make a permanent save I try to make the picture a good snapshot: I can run through the saves I've made and see the entire history of my character unfold again - things I did months ago suddenly remembered, like a story in pictures. smile.gif

Screw the performance concerns - I'm keeping my album!


Posted by: Delte Oct 20 2007, 02:42 AM

OOO users reading Delte's Thread will be interested in http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=753874 thread. Started by Dev_akm, the OOO caretaker, the thread discusses mods optimized for use with OOO.



Posted by: CptJoker Oct 20 2007, 05:57 AM

Well I've gone and uninstalled Random Encounters: you were right, some of those random spawns are just too random, like the timber wolf that spawned behind in the bank me after I accidentally activated a locked door and canceled. It's a shame: it added a bit of spice, but the implementation just needs some refinement.

I'm experiencing a rather odd problem however, unrelated probably: there are only two brothers at the "Three Brothers Trade Goods" store in the Imperial City. He's been missing for days - I presume he's dead. I think he might have been killed in a bar brawl when I tried JM's Bar Fights, or possibly been mugged on the way home by a thief or an over-zealous guard... but he's just gone; his stall is always empty. I'll keep scouring the streets to see if I come across his body, but I think I may have to change the shop's sign to one that says "Two Brothers Trade Goods" from now on... Anyone know if you can bring NPCs back from beyond?

Also, I asked this in a previous thread, but I'm not sure if I got a response: I'm going to be working on a sound mod for Real Sleep next and was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on how to approach an immersive yawning setup? Should the yawns get louder, more intense/longer, or more frequent? The last would be more complex to code, but my gut says go with "more frequent" if possible... Any views from you immersionists out there? smile.gif



Posted by: starduks Oct 20 2007, 05:57 AM

what do yall use to change load order? i looked at obmm and it looked like that was way more of a program than i needed



edit - well if it looks like i have to use obmm then how do i properly set it up? any help is appreciated



Posted by: Elovia Oct 20 2007, 06:10 AM

QUOTE(CptJoker @ Oct 19 2007, 07:57 PM)
Well I've gone and uninstalled Random Encounters: you were right, some of those random spawns are just too random, like the timber wolf that spawned behind in the bank me after I accidentally activated a locked door and canceled. It's a shame: it added a bit of spice, but the implementation just needs some refinement.

I'm experiencing a rather odd problem however, unrelated probably: there are only two brothers at the "Three Brothers Trade Goods" store in the Imperial City. He's been missing for days - I presume he's dead. I think he might have been killed in a bar brawl when I tried JM's Bar Fights, or possibly been mugged on the way home by a thief or an over-zealous guard... but he's just gone; his stall is always empty. I'll keep scouring the streets to see if I come across his body, but I think I may have to change the shop's sign to one that says "Two Brothers Trade Goods" from now on... Anyone know if you can bring NPCs back from beyond?

Also, I asked this in a previous thread, but I'm not sure if I got a response: I'm going to be working on a sound mod for Real Sleep next and was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on how to approach an immersive yawning setup? Should the yawns get louder, more intense/longer, or more frequent? The last would be more complex to code, but my gut says go with "more frequent" if possible... Any views from you immersionists out there? smile.gif



According to a printout sitting here on my desk, you can use the following command in the console to spawn a NPC or item or creature where you put the coords:
PlaceAtMe <formid>, <number of spawns>, <x>, <y>

(don't ask me how to use it)

As for the yawns ... I approach this subject with trepidation. The one thing, IMHO, to avoid at all costs is having a "yawn siren" go off when the character is completely exhausted; this would be a product of 'more frequent' yawning. I suspect you'll have some difficulty finding just the right balance between informative and annoying. But good luck to you. (btw ... I finally was able to hear tummy grumblings fing34.gif )


Posted by: Cipscis Oct 20 2007, 06:11 AM

QUOTE(CptJoker @ Oct 20 2007, 04:57 PM)
Well I've gone and uninstalled Random Encounters: you were right, some of those random spawns are just too random, like the timber wolf that spawned behind in the bank me after I accidentally activated a locked door and canceled. It's a shame: it added a bit of spice, but the implementation just needs some refinement.

I'm experiencing a rather odd problem however, unrelated probably: there are only two brothers at the "Three Brothers Trade Goods" store in the Imperial City. He's been missing for days - I presume he's dead. I think he might have been killed in a bar brawl when I tried JM's Bar Fights, or possibly been mugged on the way home by a thief or an over-zealous guard... but he's just gone; his stall is always empty. I'll keep scouring the streets to see if I come across his body, but I think I may have to change the shop's sign to one that says "Two Brothers Trade Goods" from now on... Anyone know if you can bring NPCs back from beyond?

Also, I asked this in a previous thread, but I'm not sure if I got a response: I'm going to be working on a sound mod for Real Sleep next and was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on how to approach an immersive yawning setup? Should the yawns get louder, more intense/longer, or more frequent? The last would be more complex to code, but my gut says go with "more frequent" if possible... Any views from you immersionists out there? smile.gif

I would have to say a mixture of more frequent (to a certain extent, of course) and longer would be most realistic for me.

For those of you who are interested, my own update to the Real Hunger Mod has now been uploaded (it's now Real Hunger 1.5). The difference being that all the food items now retain all their original alchemy effect (and Nirnroot, which is apparently a food, has been added to the list as a 1 unit food item). Unfortunately, due to time constraints I haven't been able to do much extensive testing (although I've done a little and it does work, although there may be little bugs/inconsistencies) and I've only been able to upload MMM and SI dependant versions. Anyone who wants to make versions that aren't dependant, go right ahead and I'll update it with them

EDIT:

Here's the link (sorry I didn't post it before):
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13565


Posted by: Elovia Oct 20 2007, 06:12 AM

QUOTE(starduks @ Oct 19 2007, 07:57 PM)
what do yall use to change load order? i looked at obmm and it looked like that was way more of a program than i needed
edit - well if it looks like i have to use obmm then how do i properly set it up? any help is appreciated



OBMM has a self-installer and will do the setup job for you.

Personally, I use Wrye Bash for load order, but either will work.


Posted by: starduks Oct 20 2007, 06:22 AM

QUOTE(Elovia @ Oct 19 2007, 11:12 PM)
OBMM has a self-installer and will do the setup job for you.

Personally, I use Wrye Bash for load order, but either will work.


ah much thanks, i'll try this asap!


edit - man is there not anything simple to change mod orders? wtf over!


Posted by: Aldwen Oct 20 2007, 06:56 AM

@ Delte

A three month respawn timer would be cool, only I think three month's may be a bit long for me. Anything slightly shorter, like a month? In three months, and with a timescale of 10, I'm pretty sure I could harvest every plant in Cyrodiil tongue.gif

Yeah I started using the Realistic Fatigue mod and I'm loving it. You really have to pace yourself now in combat; not to mention you can't hold a bow taunt for hours waiting for that perfect shot!

@ABO

Great mod, I'm loving it, but while you're thinking about tweaks I'll let you know what I did to it...

First off, I knocked off the blur, (I use Immersive Health Indication for that) as well as making the panting stop when you die or go underwater (though those are in the upcoming release I believe.) I also disabled the message that says "Wounded/Encumbered fatigue drain." Next thing I did, because personally I felt the fatigue drain was a bit fast, was simply turn a few variables down;

jumpbase and mult both got turned down by 2
runbase down by 1
runmult down by 2

Over all not to much of a difference, but you can last just a bit longer than before. Now my character doesn't feel like an asthma ridden sloth. tongue.gif

@ CptJoker

You know... I don't think I've ever seen all three brothers in the store at the same time. I've played for well over 700 hours now and I can't say I remember all three being in the same room. One or two are usually missing. The one farthest from the door seems to be the most mindful of his shop, he's always there... but his brothers... they just kind of show up from time to time.



Posted by: Elovia Oct 20 2007, 08:21 AM

QUOTE(starduks @ Oct 19 2007, 08:22 PM)
ah much thanks, i'll try this asap!
edit - man is there not anything simple to change mod orders? wtf over!


Heh ... I've got a pretty long list of mods, and I've often wondered about the best way to move large blocks of mods up and down the list.

When you move a mod up or down the list, what you're doing is changing the time-stamp on the mod; when moving up the list, the timestamps of the mod you're moving and the one above it are swapped; likewise for moving a mod down the list.

In Wrye Bash, you have the option of moving files in the list (at least) two different ways: ctrl-up/down to move a mod up or down the list, or you can directly change the timestamp. I often find the latter much quicker when I need to move a mod from very low to very high or vice-versa.


QUOTE
Aldwen said ...

@ Elovia

Here is another Alternate Start mod. This is the one I'm currently using and it doesn't break the MQ, nor does it start it, so you're free to start the MQ whenever you feel ready (you have to read a note on your doorstep.)

So far it's my favorite Alternate Start mod simply because you can roleplay as if your character has always lived in Cyrodiil, thus their house.



Thanks for the link. I checked it out and had mixed feelings about it. On the one hand, you can get a house for free, but you're limited in starting wealth options. On the other hand, you may choose to start as a homeless, but you're also poor (side note: I tried to start as homeless, but bumbled around the starter area and was killed by a vampire before my character was fully created. thumbsdown.gif ) On the third hand (*looks around* what ... doesn't everyone have a third hand?), you can start in the prison and go through the starter dungeon, which defeats the whole point of using an alternate starting mod.

I decided this was as good a time to start mucking around with the CS.

That said, I'm somewhat happy to report that I think I've squashed the nasty bug in 'Alternate Start: Arrive by Ship' that disabled the main quest. Jauffre will once again take the Amulet of Kings, and Brother Piney and Prior Maboral will no longer advance the quest if the player has not found the Amulet. I haven't released it yet because I still want to do some testing on it, and if sufficient interest is there, see if the original author will grant permission.




Posted by: reallybigjohnson Oct 20 2007, 09:28 AM

there is a new version of real hunger out, 1.5. does anyone know if it still has the problem of having to eat half your inventory after a nights sleep.



Posted by: Cipscis Oct 20 2007, 09:39 AM

QUOTE(reallybigjohnson @ Oct 20 2007, 08:28 PM)
there is a new version of real hunger out, 1.5. does anyone know if it still has the problem of having to eat half your inventory after a nights sleep.

At the moment this hasn't been changed, but I can see your logic. I'll have a look now and see what I can do...
How would it sound if time spent sleeping would only make you half as hungry? (If that makes sense...)


Posted by: Leandro Conde Oct 20 2007, 09:43 AM

Hi all! How's there? What a speedy thread! This move fast!

QUOTE(Elovia @ Oct 20 2007, 03:21 AM)
<snip>
In Wrye Bash, you have the option of moving files in the list (at least) two different ways: ctrl-up/down to move a mod up or down the list, or you can directly change the timestamp. I often find the latter much quicker when I need to move a mod from very low to very high or vice-versa.<snip>



Actually, there's a third way .. in Wrye Bash you can select a bunch of mods, right click and select File->Redate ... which asks you a start date, and the sorts the full list of selected mods in just one operation ... Within the selected group, the mods are sorted alphabetically, and each one are given dates starting with the date you given and adding one minute to each one. More info http://wrye.ufrealms.net/Wrye%20Bash.html#SetLoadOrder and http://wrye.ufrealms.net/Wrye%20Bash.html#FileCommands


Changing subject, any one tried this mod? http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=6422
It adds a backpack to your character. It's just for cosmetic purposes, as the backpack is not functional. It's rather intended as a depiction of the player inventory. It seems fairly unbelievable that a normal character could lift all that stuff he is carrying around in anything put his pockets tongue.gif

I didn't test it yet, but I may ... maybe this weekend.

Cheers,
Leeus.

EDIT: typos


Posted by: pingveen Oct 20 2007, 09:46 AM

Starting work on an alternative to moldy ingredients. A quick teaser:

http://www.adeliedreams.com/ob/pfo-apple.jpg

You saw it in Delte's List first happy.gif



Posted by: Cipscis Oct 20 2007, 10:12 AM

QUOTE(Leandro Conde @ Oct 20 2007, 08:43 PM)
Hi all! How's there? What a speedy thread! This move fast!
Actually, there's a third way .. in Wrye Bash you can select a bunch of mods, right click and select File->Redate ... which asks you a start date, and the sorts the full list of selected mods in just one operation ... Within the selected group, the mods are sorted alphabetically, and each one are given dates starting with the date you given and adding one minute to each one. More info http://wrye.ufrealms.net/Wrye%20Bash.html#SetLoadOrder and http://wrye.ufrealms.net/Wrye%20Bash.html#FileCommands
Changing subject, any one tried this mod? http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=6422
It adds a backpack to your character. It's just for cosmetic purposes, as the backpack is not functional. It's rather intended as a depiction of the player inventory. It seems fairly unbelievable that a normal character could lift all that stuff he is carrying around in anything put his pockets tongue.gif

I didn't test it yet, but I may ... maybe this weekend.

Cheers,
Leeus.

EDIT: typos

I've already mentioned this Mod on a past thread and given it a bit of a test. From what I saw it was a cool idea but needed some work before it would be fully functional (especially since you can't equip the backpack with arrows, if you drop it then it becomes invisible, it counts as a weapon in your inventory and if you try to fire a bow with it equipped your game will crash, to name a few bugs). It's also confusing to uninstall, as there are no instructions (you have to delete the .nif files it creates for the arrows to stop vanilla arrows always appearing with backpacks)


Posted by: Meridian Oct 20 2007, 12:38 PM

I'm getting an immediate CTD with XIDR Advanced Inns as soon as the quest box pops up informing you that your rent has expired. Anyone else had this?

Try renting a room at an inn for 1 day, leave and go wait somewhere for a day or 2. You should get a quest box come up telling you that your rent has expired. If it doesn't CTD on you then it's just me.



Posted by: Jardas Oct 20 2007, 12:49 PM

Delte

What kind of levelling mod are u using?
thx



Posted by: Meridian Oct 20 2007, 01:23 PM

I don't think Delte is using a levelling mod, he posts his load order every now and then, last one is a few posts back and there isn't one in there.



Posted by: Cipscis Oct 20 2007, 02:26 PM

I've updated the Real Hunger Mod again, now you can customise the rate at which your hunger increases while you are sleeping or waiting! To do this, simply open the console (by pressing the "`" key, next to the 1 on your keyboard) and type "set RHSleepMult to x" (without quotes), where x is the factor at which you want your hunger to increase while you sleep or wait. For example, if you want it to increase at the same rate as when you're awake, you'd type "set RHSleepMult to 1" (without quotes), and if you wanted it to be half as fast (as I'd recommend) you'd type "set RHSleepMult to 0.5" (without quotes). By default this is set to 0.

Here's the link again:

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13565
Enjoy!

Cipscis



Posted by: Darina Oct 20 2007, 02:28 PM

QUOTE(Cipscis @ Oct 20 2007, 12:26 PM)
I've updated the Real Hunger Mod again, now you can customise the rate at which your hunger increases while you are sleeping or waiting! To do this, simply open the console (by pressing the "`" key, next to the 1 on your keyboard) and type "set RHSleepMult to x" (without quotes), where x is the factor at which you want your hunger to increase while you sleep or wait. For example, if you want it to increase at the same rate as when you're awake, you'd type "set RHSleepMult to 1" (without quotes), and if you wanted it to be half as fast (as I'd recommend) you'd type "set RHSleepMult to 0.5" (without quotes). By default this is set to 0.

Here's the link again:

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13565
Enjoy!

Cipscis


Great work, Cipscis!

Thanks very much! foodndrink.gif

Darina


Posted by: Kestor Oct 20 2007, 03:15 PM

Nice update. Is it recommended to start a new game to work properly, since it's a new esp ?



Posted by: Cipscis Oct 20 2007, 03:26 PM

QUOTE(Kestor @ Oct 21 2007, 02:15 AM)
Nice update. Is it recommended to start a new game to work properly, since it's a new esp ?

If you eat until you're stuffed (i.e. you need 0 more units of food) then you should be able to just switch .esp files and be fine. I don't know if you'd suffer permanent stat losses or not if you switched without doing this though. Keep in mind if you have any Restore Hunger potions in your inventory they'll be exactly the same as before, except for the fact that they won't work, lol (you can still sell them though!).


Posted by: Kestor Oct 20 2007, 03:29 PM

Roger that.
Thank you.



Posted by: ABO Oct 20 2007, 04:17 PM

QUOTE(Aldwen @ Oct 19 2007, 11:56 PM)
First off, I knocked off the blur, (I use Immersive Health Indication for that) as well as making the panting stop when you die or go underwater (though those are in the upcoming release I believe.) I also disabled the message that says "Wounded/Encumbered fatigue drain." Next thing I did, because personally I felt the fatigue drain was a bit fast, was simply turn a few variables down;


I've just released v1.8 of Realistic Fatigue that includes an important bug fix. As the general consensus was that it is still too harsh on low level characters I've reduced the run/jump burn by ~ the same as what you did, but I also adjusted the fPerkAthletics*FatigueMult settings to compensate so that it doesn't make it too easy for high level characters. Thanks to Cipscis I've added the turn off fatigue when you die, and turn off pant when you are swiming. I've also removed the message that everyone seems to hate, and made it take a bit longer before you can get up when you collapse.


Posted by: Shield Watcher Oct 20 2007, 04:23 PM

Tiny mod but ESSENTIAL (perhaps more essential than any other mod).:

Quest message Pop Up remover. If there was only ONE mod I could have it would be this. It stops you feeling like you`re being lead around by the nose like a toddler and makes an RPG what an RPG should be - a thinking game as well as fighting.

I`ve also spotted and D\L Quest level up and Sound remover, but the guy who left it NEVER explained where to put it to make it work. has any one managed to work this? And if so, How?

thanks all.



Posted by: RebelMax Oct 20 2007, 04:51 PM

@Shield Watcher
I`ve also spotted and D\L Quest level up and Sound remover, but the guy who left it NEVER explained where to put it to make it work. has any one managed to work this? And if so, How?

Put this sounds in ...\Data\Sound\fx\ui folder. And yeah, this two mods (or at least the first one) are essential (IMHO).



Posted by: saddysally Oct 20 2007, 05:16 PM

QUOTE(Cipscis @ Oct 20 2007, 02:26 PM)
Here's the link again:

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13565
Enjoy!

Cipscis


Nice^^
Hey, what about the Real Fatigue update? tongue.gif I'm really looking forward the no-blur-and-panting-on-death so I can enjoy my "http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=5824" !


Posted by: Delte Oct 20 2007, 05:21 PM

QUOTE
I'm experiencing a rather odd problem however, unrelated probably: there are only two brothers at the "Three Brothers Trade Goods" store in the Imperial City. He's been missing for days - I presume he's dead.


@CptJoker

I think there's one missing in my game too. The three of them take strolls, and I don't use that merchant much, so it's hard for me to confirm. But, I know, the last time I was in there, there were only two.

QUOTE
Should the yawns get louder, more intense/longer, or more frequent? The last would be more complex to code, but my gut says go with "more frequent" if possible... Any views from you immersionists out there?


My vote would be for you to do exactly what you did on Real Hunger. A yawn plays when the message would normally appear. The yawns could get more "insistent" though, so that the first one is a light yawn. The next time it plays, it might be a little louder. Maybe a short, intrusive yawn on the third one, etc.







QUOTE
The difference being that all the food items now retain all their original alchemy effect (and Nirnroot, which is apparently a food, has been added to the list as a 1 unit food item).


@Cipscis

I assume that Restore Hunger potions can no longer be made using your version?

(Also, I don't think you should rename the mod to v1.5. I think this will confuse users of the mod. They'd be looking for a real mod upgrade, when your version is a tweak. If I were you, I'd do like CptJoker did and just change the game of the mod a little to reflect the tweak: Real Hunger 1.4 - Alchemy Friendly Version, or something like that. Plus, the orignal mod author may not take kindly to having his mod appear to be upgraded a version without his "OK". What if he, not knowing that someone else has made a v1.5, also releases a v1.5...now there are two out there. See what I mean? I strongly urge you to rename the mod something besides RH v1.5.)







QUOTE
A three month respawn timer would be cool, only I think three month's may be a bit long for me. Anything slightly shorter, like a month? In three months, and with a timescale of 10, I'm pretty sure I could harvest every plant in Cyrodiil


@Aldwen

Yep! LOL! 1277.gif At a timescale of 10 (I'm using it), the 3 mo ReSpawn translates to around 100-200 game hours!

I've decided that it's the best set-up for me, but I definitely see your trepidation. But, to answer your question, yes, there are some other ReSpawn times available. Just check your OOO download (you're using OOO, right?). There's a 1 year one in there, a two week, and a week.







QUOTE
Starting work on an alternative to moldy ingredients. A quick teaser:


@Pingveen

Dude! That's GREAT!

QUOTE
You saw it in Delte's List first


LOL! thumbsup.gif







QUOTE
I'm getting an immediate CTD with XIDR Advanced Inns as soon as the quest box pops up informing you that your rent has expired. Anyone else had this?


@Meridian

I'm not sure if I'll keep the mod, but its worked flawlessly for me since I installed it.







QUOTE
Delte

What kind of levelling mod are u using?


@Jardas

It's a little 'ole mod called OOO. Maybe you've heard of it? heee.gif


Posted by: CptJoker Oct 20 2007, 05:30 PM

QUOTE(Aldwen @ Oct 20 2007, 05:56 AM)
You know... I don't think I've ever seen all three brothers in the store at the same time. I've played for well over 700 hours now and I can't say I remember all three being in the same room. One or two are usually missing. The one farthest from the door seems to be the most mindful of his shop, he's always there... but his brothers... they just kind of show up from time to time.


Phew! I was beginning to worry - I think he's the brother who's supposed to upgrade my shack furnishings too...

QUOTE(pingveen @ Oct 20 2007, 08:46 AM)
You saw it in Delte's List first happy.gif


Looks great! Can't wait to try it!

QUOTE(Cipscis @ Oct 20 2007, 01:26 PM)
I've updated the Real Hunger Mod again, now you can customise the rate at which your hunger increases while you are sleeping or waiting!


Great work! Exactly the fix I was hoping to see! biggrin.gif

QUOTE(Delte @ Oct 20 2007, 04:21 PM)
My vote would be for you to do exactly what you did on Real Hunger. A yawn plays when the message would normally appear. The yawns could get more "insistent" though, so that the first one is a light yawn. The next time it plays, it might be a little louder. Maybe a short, intrusive yawn on the third one, etc.


Well that's what I initially thought, but then I thought: hang on, is this the most realistic way to do it? I mean, when you get tired you start yawning more and more often, not just louder. Not to the point of game-ruining annoyance of course, but sometimes there are times when you're so tired you can't stop yawning...


Posted by: Gato Oct 20 2007, 05:31 PM

I can't understand why having a version of Real Hunger that doesn't foul up alchemy ingredients isn't a bigger deal. I tried real hunger once..and quickly tossed it out. You can't make fatigue restoring potions with it on. With realistic fatigue on, it's a rather important ability, especially for mages.

Delte,
Could you explain why you like it so much? I guess Pugg not being much of an alchemist means you don't really miss that ability. Or am I missing something?



Posted by: RebelMax Oct 20 2007, 05:31 PM

@Delte
It's a little 'ole mod called OOO. Maybe you've heard of it?

I think he means player levelling mod. Ya know... skills, attributes...



Posted by: Delte Oct 20 2007, 05:35 PM

QUOTE
I've updated the Real Hunger Mod again, now you can customise the rate at which your hunger increases while you are sleeping or waiting!


@Cipscis

That's awesome!

But, please, PLEASE, remove the "v1.5" tag and return it to "v1.4". "Original Alchemy Edition" of v1.4 is what it should be.







QUOTE
I've just released v1.8 of Realistic Fatigue that includes an important bug fix. As the general consensus was that it is still too harsh on low level characters I've reduced the run/jump burn by ~ the same as what you did, but I also adjusted the fPerkAthletics*FatigueMult settings to compensate so that it doesn't make it too easy for high level characters. Thanks to Cipscis I've added the turn off fatigue when you die, and turn off pant when you are swiming. I've also removed the message that everyone seems to hate, and made it take a bit longer before you can get up when you collapse.


@ABO

Donovan, glad you could make it!

If you've got comments or want to discuss any aspect of your update, then we here on Delte's List are eager to hear it.

I'm downolading your update now.

(BTW, please post a linky when posting mod info like that...the people reading this list appreciate stuff like that!)

For everyone else, here is a linky to Donovan's update of RF: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=10925.


Posted by: Darina Oct 20 2007, 05:36 PM

Hi all!

@Delte:
I experienced a lag in Cheydinhal, too. I blame Lynges Assassins or Underlife for that. I disabled both of them and it seems to run faster again. I feel especially sorry for Lynges Assassins. This mod sure has potential.

A question on the less food esp: Where can I get it or was it distributed privately?

Greetz! Darina



Posted by: wmj Oct 20 2007, 05:40 PM

Hey, all-- I haven't had time to read through the previous pages of this thread (or the last, though I have them both open in tabs), but I was referred here from the Vim and Vigor Overhauled thread to report a possible problem with/request a fix for Alternate Start Arrive by Ship (which I have seen mentioned in previous posts, at least).

The two mods I'm having trouble with are nGCD and Vim and Vigor Overhauled, and at first blush it looks like the issues could be solved by making adjustments in ASABS, if that was possible.

As for nGCD, the problem is that nGCD doesn't seem to properly pick up your initial race/class/birthsign data unless you use one of the two character generation ESPs included with nGCD. That's fine, but ASABS then forces you to re-generate your character (fill out the immigration forms) before allowing you to activate the bed and exit the cell, and this re-generation appears to bork up nGCD (because my attributes and stats change again, to seemingly incorrect values, and I get the default spells back, which I don't in fact want).

The problem seems to be that the bed activation to leave the cell is refused if any or all of the immigration forms are not filled in-- but by rights, since nGCD has already generated my race/class/birthsign, I should only have to fill in the 'social status' portion of the forms before being allowed to activate the bed. In other words, isn't there a flag that the 'exit' script on the bed could read to check that I've done 'showracemenu' 'showbirthsignmenu' and 'showclassmenu' already, but not 'social status', and say "I should fill in the 'Social Status' section of my immigration forms before retiring", so I would only do that, and the rest of the form would be considered to have been 'done' already (by nGCD)?

Of course, activating the bed itself is another problem.

Because I use Vim and Vigor Overhauled, it seems that the fact that the bed passes time (for the dream) when activated, but does so without using menumode 1012 ("how long would you like to sleep?") is what is causing my PC to immediately fall unconscious with -3700 fatigue when I arrive in the Waterfront District (time has passed, but Vim and Vigor Overhauled relies on the sleep/wait menu to know how much time has passed and calculate the fatigue lost in that time, and the bed of ASABS doesn't use the sleep/wait menu).

So it would be great if either the bed did indeed use the sleep/wait menu, or the bed business was removed entirely, and the activator was placed on the exterior door out of the cabin (there is one, isn't there) to move you to an exterior cell and pop up the 'dream' message boxes. I'm perfectly ok with having had a dream that I didn't make the PC sleep to have had-- just change the first line of the message box to something like "During the last night of my ship journey, I had a dream...." and have done. It never made much sense to me that I would fill out my immigration forms "the night before" I got off the ship, then woke up and was off the ship. Wouldn't the startup actually be when the ship had come into port and I filled in/handed over my forms and then exited? That would also resolve the issue of needing time to pass, since time doesn't really pass (ok, maybe a couple of hours, but we can ignore those) when the ship comes into harbor and you go through customs and you get off. At least, time doesn't pass as if you then slept for 6 hours for no reason. So the ship comes in during the day, and you get off during the day, time doesn't need to be artificially accelerated at all.

Anyway, if anybody sees their way clear to make or add these adjustments to any adjustments currently being made to this mod, I'd appreciate it.... thanks.

EDIT: And has anyone else had the problem of not getting appropriate weapons (specifically, a bow) if your weapons skills are anything other than Blade? I always get that dratted Iron Dagger, and I have no Blade skills whatsoever. When I take Blunt, I get an Iron Dagger, not a club or mace; when I take Marksman, I get an Iron Dagger, not even a Rusty Bow (much less an Iron one).
Drives me a bit batty, having to buy a bow from Rohssan, who charges an arm and a leg for one.....



Posted by: Delte Oct 20 2007, 06:01 PM

QUOTE(Gato @ Oct 20 2007, 10:31 AM)
I can't understand why having a version of Real Hunger that doesn't foul up alchemy ingredients isn't a bigger deal. I tried real hunger once..and quickly tossed it out. You can't make fatigue restoring potions with it on. With realistic fatigue on, it's a rather important ability, especially for mages.

Delte,
Could you explain why you like it so much? I guess Pugg not being much of an alchemist means you don't really miss that ability. Or am I missing something?


@Gato

RE Restore Fatigue Original Alchemy Edition

I don't use alchemy much, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't care about alchemy being unbalanced in the game (which is basically what you're saying). Here are my reasons:

1. Real Hunger, with the "food", allows for Restore Hunger potions. These are lighter than carrying food (for the Realistic Fatigue users), and are nifty "ration pack" like things to have in the game. Take the "food" functionality out of RH, and you remove this nifty addition to alchemy in the game as well. (Plus, this is a unique feature of RH that no other hunger mod has...and removing it is removing a unique feature of that mod.)

2. Food is all over the place in the game (if you're not using the recent mods by RebelMax and Pingveen to decrease food availability), thus the ability to make Restore Fatigue potions is, really, overbalanced in the vanilla game. You can find more ingredients to make Restore Fatigue than any other type of potion simply because food is used. Now, there are other ingredients in the game that are much more rare than food, and those can still be used to make Restore Fatigue potions. By removing food as a choice in making Restore Fatigue, all that's happened is that Restore Fatigue has become more balanced with every other potion type. Restore Fatigue doesn't overwhelmingly outnumber the other types of potions that can be made. Thus, keeping the food functionality of Real Hunger actually serves to balance the game (the reverse of what you're thinking).

3. Therefore, since RH "food" provides additional functionality with Restore Hunger potions, and Restore Fatigue potions are possible either way (in fact, more balanced if some food is removed as an ingredient), a neat aspect of the game is actually being removed when the "food" functionality of RH is removed.

In short: I'd rather be able to make Restore Hunger potions AND Restore Fatigue potions, rather than just multiple bottles of Restore Fatigue potions.

Therefore, even if Pugg gets into alchemy (as I plan to do later in his career), I'll be using the RH version that allows for Restore Hunger potions.







QUOTE
I think he means player levelling mod. Ya know... skills, attributes...


@RebelMax and @Jardas

I know. I was just playin'. That's why the funny appeared.

I've never looked hard at all at a leveling mod. I really don't even know what they do. OOO makes you level slow (about twice as slow as vanilla, I think), and I'm real happy with that. I'm 170+ hours into my game, and Pugg is only 15th level.

That seems about right to me. Why would I want to change it.?







QUOTE
Well that's what I initially thought, but then I thought: hang on, is this the most realistic way to do it? I mean, when you get tired you start yawning more and more often, not just louder. Not to the point of game-ruining annoyance of course, but sometimes there are times when you're so tired you can't stop yawning...


@CptJoker

Hey, bro, you're in charge. Do what you think best. If you do as good a job with RS as you did with RH, then I'll be doing backflips.






QUOTE
@Delte:
I experienced a lag in Cheydinhal, too. I blame Lynges Assassins or Underlife for that. I disabled both of them and it seems to run faster again. I feel especially sorry for Lynges Assassins. This mod sure has potential.


@Darina

I agree, it does have potential, but it's not ready for public consumption. Maybe a tweaker here will take it under his belt.

I felt the lag at Cheydinhal...did I already say where? Glad to hear it wasn't me going crazy. I'm taking that mod out.



QUOTE
A question on the less food esp: Where can I get it or was it distributed privately?


Check a page or two back in this thread. You'll find the linky.







QUOTE
Hey, all-- I haven't had time to read through the previous pages of this thread (or the last, though I have them both open in tabs), but I was referred here from the Vim and Vigor Overhauled thread to report a possible problem with/request a fix for Alternate Start Arrive by Ship (which I have seen mentioned in previous posts, at least).


@wmj

Hey, man, thanks for the info! I don't use Alternate Start myself (or V&V), but it's that type of info that Delte's Thread readers are interested in seeing. Thanks for posting.


Posted by: Kestor Oct 20 2007, 06:31 PM

Can anyone help me in updating Realistic fatigue from 1.7 to 1.8 without having to restart a new game ?
I did this :

1. Opened OBMM
2. Deleted Realistic Fatigue 1.7 OMOD (it was an OMOD)
3. Clicked created archive and selected Realistc Fatigue 1.8
4. Created an Realistic Fatigue 1.8 OMOD
5. Activated it.


The game seems to run fine but i'm not sure if I did it right.
Can anyone help me here please ?



Posted by: Delte Oct 20 2007, 06:43 PM

QUOTE(Kestor @ Oct 20 2007, 11:31 AM)
Can anyone help me in updating Realistic fatigue from 1.7 to 1.8 without having to restart a new game ?


@Kestor

I've seen you mention this a few times. Just FYI, it is not typically necessary to restart a game when a new mod is loaded. How do you think I test all those mods all the time?

As with the case with Realistic Fatigue, just make sure all of your stats are not deminished by RF from before (make sure your character is fully rested). Save. Disable the old mod. Install the new mod. Enable the new mod. Then, reload your save.

That should do the trick.


Posted by: Kestor Oct 20 2007, 06:48 PM

QUOTE(Delte @ Oct 20 2007, 07:43 PM)
@Kestor

I've seen you mention this a few times. Just FYI, it is not typically necessary to restart a game when a new mod is loaded. How do you think I test all those mods all the time?

As with the case with Realistic Fatigue, just make sure all of your stats are not deminished by RF from before (make sure your character is fully rested). Save. Disable the old mod. Install the new mod. Enable the new mod. Then, reload your save.

That should do the trick.


Thank you very much !
I know it's not necesarry do restart the game when a new mod is loaded (i'm not THAT of a noob even if I look like it tongue.gif) but when it comes to status mods, i'm a bit overprotective wink.gif.


Posted by: Shield Watcher Oct 20 2007, 07:10 PM

QUOTE(RebelMax @ Oct 20 2007, 03:51 PM)
@Shield Watcher
I`ve also spotted and D\L Quest level up and Sound remover, but the guy who left it NEVER explained where to put it to make it work. has any one managed to work this? And if so, How?

Put this sounds in ...\Data\Sound\fx\ui folder. And yeah, this two mods (or at least the first one) are essential (IMHO).



Ok. Thanks for the reply.

But I find when I look in the Data\Sound\fx there is no `ui` folder.

What i did was make a `UI` folder and put them in there. Perhaps this will work.


Posted by: Delte Oct 20 2007, 07:37 PM

@ABO

RE Realistic Fatigue v1.8


I've been testing out the changes in 1.8, and I wonder: Have you gone too easy on the low level characters? I think I prefer the less-forgiving 1.7 version of the mod.

My character, at 15th level, is really having no problem at all using the 1.8 version. It's almost as if it's not there. (Pugg's not carrying much weight). It's not like vanilla, but it definitely doesn't have the bite of 1.7.

The character rising up through the ranks in level is rewarded by being able to deal with fatigue better than he was before. Now, with 1.8, that reward is not as "rewarding".

What are other's thoughts on RF 1.8?



Posted by: Elovia Oct 20 2007, 07:37 PM

QUOTE(wmj @ Oct 20 2007, 07:40 AM)
The two mods I'm having trouble with are nGCD and Vim and Vigor Overhauled, and at first blush it looks like the issues could be solved by making adjustments in ASABS, if that was possible.

...

Of course, activating the bed itself is another problem.

...

EDIT: And has anyone else had the problem of not getting appropriate weapons (specifically, a bow) if your weapons skills are anything other than Blade? I always get that dratted Iron Dagger, and I have no Blade skills whatsoever. When I take Blunt, I get an Iron Dagger, not a club or mace; when I take Marksman, I get an Iron Dagger, not even a Rusty Bow (much less an Iron one).
Drives me a bit batty, having to buy a bow from Rohssan, who charges an arm and a leg for one.....


I've been mucking around with 'Alternative Start Arrive by Ship' lately, but my goal was just to fix the main quest. I don't use V&V, but I do use nGCD so I cannot comment on the changing stats; I haven't given it much thought. I can take a look, but I hope you'll understand that I don't have a whole lot of time to devote to it and I'm new to the CS. I was able to accomplish two changes to ASAbS, and they were: it appears I did solve the main quest problem, and I brought the dead rat to life (gave it some stats and a little bite). I was next going to look into the equipment distribution; from a preliminary look on that, this mod appears to be reliant on a leveling mod other than nGCD (one that allows early character level gains) and then distributes equipment from a level list. There really is a lot going on in ASAbS, and I think the original author has ideas on where he wants to take it. My mucking with it was for twofold purposes: I wanted to fix the main quest, and I needed a good introduction to the CS.

E



Posted by: ABO Oct 20 2007, 07:53 PM

QUOTE(Delte @ Oct 20 2007, 10:35 AM)
@ABO

Donovan, is that you?

If so, glad you could make it!

Yep, that's me...
QUOTE
If you're not Donovan Baarda, then I'll say the same thing to you that I was saying to Cipscis above. Don't release a "new version" of the mod without the original author's permission. In this case (If ABO isn't Donovan Baarda), Donovan is working on a new version of RF, and he may name his upgrade RF v1.8.

Then, we'd be stuck with two RF 1.8's, confusing people. Call yours "Realistic Fatigue v1.7 Bug Fix" or something like that. (Again, this is moot if you are Donovan.)

I've noticed that tesnexus supports allowing additional contributors to a mod. This is an awesome feature that allows a mod to be adopted and extended with the original author's permission, rather than letting it stagnate or spawn multiple forks after the author moves on. If anyone is extending a mod, I strongly suggest contacting the author and asking if they are willing to add you as an additional contributor rather than spawning a new mod entry.

Right now I'm still fully supporting Realistic Fatigue, but if anyone else starts making contributions faster than I can release them, I'd be fully willing to add them as an additional contributor so they can release them themselves.
QUOTE
Plus, I've been in touch with Donovan, and I've invited him to come speak about his new upcoming version of RF.

Also, please post a linky when posting mod info like that...the people reading this list appreciate stuff like that!

The link/homepage/everything for Realistic Fatigue is the tesnexus entry. Feel free to post comments there and I will usually respond pretty quickly.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=10925

So... on the future of Realistic Fatigue;

First is the never-ending refinement of the settings... these are simple to adjust, but hard to get right. I'm always looking for more feedback on how RF plays and how it could be improved. I think it is now getting pretty good, but I tend to play stealth/combat characters exclusively, so I don't really know how it plays for mages.

I have at various times toyed with the idea of making the encumbrance and health fatigue drains an ability spell. I originally wanted to do this so that you could see it in the spell menu. The Encumbered/Wounded fatigue drain message was a stop-gap measure until I could implement the ability spell in a way that would show how badly encumbered/wounded you were. An ability spell would also be easier to apply to NPC's and monsters so they are also affected (these fatigue drains and trip/collapse effect are the only stats affecting parts of this mod that dont also apply to NPC's and monsters).

However, I'm now thinking that this is not worth it. It is non-trivial to make an ability spell with variable intensity that will show the current value in the menu. The encumbrance/fatigue model for NPC's is much simpler than it is for the player, so these drain effects would not make much difference on them. These drain effects were carefuly designed to not disadvantage the player in combat, so it doesn't matter much that NPCs/monsters are not affected by them. Part of the beauty of RF is the simplicity of it's implementation; one quest, one simple quest script, a couple of sounds (reusing sounds already in the game) and a few settings tweaks. I don't want to make it more complex unless there are significant gains.

Instead the main thing I'm thinking of doing is improving the blur/pant effects so thate more people are happy with them. Right now the script runs at a fixed 0.5 second interval, so the blur effect is at a constant rate and the breathing is always in 0.5/1.0/1.4/2.0/2.5/3.0sec intervals. In the next release I'm going to make the fQuestDelayTime dynamically adjust based on fatigue level so that it runs at "heartbeat speed". This way the blur and pant effects will smoothly increase in frequency as well as intensity. At one point someone suggested a heartbeat sound, which would work nicely with this (if anyone knows of a heartbeat sound already in Oblivion... let me know), but I'm not sure if I want to add more noise. Someone mentioned they are using immersive health blur effects instead of RF's... I want to make RF's pant/blur effects the immersive health/fatigue warning of choice.

Now for some vauge suggestions on other realism mods...

I tried "Real Sleep" and "Real Hunger" and though I quite liked them, I'm no longer using them. Both of them felt too harsh, and I was also disturbed by the way "Real Hunger" screwed with all the ingredients. The stats drains they applied also seemed a bit arbitary. I considered writing my own versions of these that would interact nicely with RF at one point. The idea was that hunger should apply a slow health drain, and sleep deprivation should apply a slow fatigue drain. The health drain of hunger would interact with RF to eventually induce a fatigue drain that would impair you through normal game fatigue mechanics.


Posted by: ABO Oct 20 2007, 07:55 PM

QUOTE(Kestor @ Oct 20 2007, 11:48 AM)
Thank you very much !
I know it's not necesarry do restart the game when a new mod is loaded (i'm not THAT of a noob even if I look like it tongue.gif) but when it comes to status mods, i'm a bit overprotective wink.gif.

Actually, I try to make RF upgrades not require the remove/save/install cycle... I use a version marker in the script to ensure it does the right thing after an upgrade.


Posted by: Delte Oct 20 2007, 08:05 PM

QUOTE(ABO @ Oct 20 2007, 12:53 PM)
I tried "Real Sleep" and "Real Hunger" and though I quite liked them, I'm no longer using them. Both of them felt too harsh, and I was also disturbed by the way "Real Hunger" screwed with all the ingredients. The stats drains they applied also seemed a bit arbitary. I considered writing my own versions of these that would interact nicely with RF at one point. The idea was that hunger should apply a slow health drain, and sleep deprivation should apply a slow fatigue drain. The health drain of hunger would interact with RF to eventually induce a fatigue drain that would impair you through normal game fatigue mechanics.


I'm a huge fan of both Real Sleep and Real Hunger (especially CptJoker's new and improved Real Hunger with hunger sounds). But, if you make your ideas above into a mod, you can bet that I, and many here on Delte's Thread, will test the heck out of it.

We'll give it a real good "look".



Posted by: thylantyr Oct 20 2007, 11:21 PM

Real Hunger v1.4 by Dominic Watson, updated by Thingamajig

I finally got this mod to run by starting a new game. It works pretty well so far.
There is incentive to snag food on your travels whereas before it seemed useless.

Real Hunger - Original Alchemy Edition v1.5

I don't really understand what this version offers.
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13565

snip...

Hunger is now done entirely by script
What does this really mean to the end user?

so all foods now have their original alchemy effects

Real Hunger v1.4 doesn't have this? Do I need this feature in v1.5 ?



Posted by: Delte Oct 20 2007, 11:28 PM

MOD REPORT: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=12116


Pugg thinks he's sooo smart.

He arrives at Leyawiin today, but he's early for the job. Squinting up at the sky, he'd say it was sometime after noon. Maybe 1:30-ish. He knows he needs to get some sleep. Tonight's work will require he have all his faculties about him. But, he's restless. He camped out in the wilderness last night, and it was such a pretty morning. He's fully rested.

As he approaches the city walls, he notices a cave not too far from the road. Why not? Let's see what can be found, eh?

Inside he goes. Prior M's nag he leaves teathered to the tree, careful to make sure the horse can graze while he's gone. The bright sunlight has turned to pitch blackness as he enters. Up ahead, though, he sees light. And hears voices.

Pugg has mastered his chosen profession well. He shrinks back into the shadows. Not a clink or a clank of armor nor shield nor weapon echo off the cave's walls. He's as silent as death.

He can't see, though. But, rummaging in his sack, he finds a ring. The ring will allow him to see through the darkness.

He thinks he's sooo smart.

Past the bandits he moves, silently. He represses a laugh, though. The bandits don't seem to be getting along. A fight breaks out among the three, leaving one dead. Pugg doesn't care. It provides the perfect opportunity for him to rush across the room, lit by torch light, to escape into the cavern beyond. He wants to whisper, "Hard to get good help these days, eh mate?", but he's much too professional for that.

Up ahead, the cavern slants lower, to where he has to wade into water. No problem. Pugg reaches into his sack and pulls a necklace--a necklace that will allow him to walk on water. As he continues to creep (now along the lapping surface if the water!), he spies slaughter fish beneath him. Just as the ring had saved him by letting him see, the necklace had same him from having to deal with that mess.

Pugg, yes, he thinks he's sooo smart.

The cavern decends even deeper into the water. Pugg will have to get wet now or go back the other way. Again, he fishes (pardon the pun) in his sack for something...another ring, for his other hand. This one will allow him to breathe under water. Another obstacle taken care of.

And, Pugg? He thinks he's sooo smart.

Down deep into the cavern he swims. He finds some goodies in a floating chest, and he pats himself on the back for being so smart. A narrow hole in the wall is the only way to continue, but he's been keeping his distance from the slaughter fish. Pugg has never been good at face-to-face encounters. He's never been trained at that. That's never been his job.

Through the hole he goes, hoping that he hasn't come to close to the fish, attracting their dead-eyed stare.

He's not so lucky. One, then another, then another attack him. Chillrend, his sword, slices through the water. His mithral shields protects him. His touch electrocutes any fish that comes close. The encounter is finished, and dead fish float to the top of the cavern.

Or, is it finished?

The fight had taken him, backwards, into the next underwater cavern. As Pugg turns, he sees that he has disturbed a whole school of slaughterfish. There must be a eight, or even a dozen, of them.

It's a mad house of bubbles. Chillrend slicing. The fishies sharp teeth tearing at his leather armor. A shield bash or two from Pugg's prized mithral shield.

For the first time, Pugg realized he wasn't so smart.

He was certainly scared for his life. But, he prevailed. Nocturnal is always with him. And, as soon as he found his way from beneath the water, he would pull the charm he always carries of the daedra lord to lay his lips upon it in prayer and thanks.

Looking above him, he's amazed at the fish bodies. An entire school of slaughterfish, pieces, floating at the top of this underground, underwater cavern.

Pugg moves on. And, he's starting to think he's smart again.

He got out of that one, didn't he? Down through the depths he swam. He found another floating chest, picked it, and found some more goodies. From the cavern floor, he scooped up some gold coins.

Picking the last coin from the submerged rock, he looked up to see...more....and more...schools of slaughter fish. At least three more schools! It's somewhere in the neighborhood of 24-30 more fish!

His annus tightens, and not just from the cold water.

He knows he wouldn't survive an encounter with all of those fishies. Next to the wall he goes. Although he's swimming, he's trying to "sneak" as much as he can, trying to stay away from the fish.

Four of the fish break off from the school. Four big ones. Ancient Slaughter Fish.

Pugg makes a swim for it. Through a narrow hole into a wider chamber. He swims as far and as fast away from the three schools as he can. But the four big daddies catch him. The fight is horrendous. It's a mass of bubbles, smoking cold Chillrend, electric current in the water, and as much more magic as Pugg can muster.

The four ancient slaughter fish rip Pugg's armor to shreds. Pugg might as well be swimming in the nude. A flawless topaz stone in his hand, Pugg thinks, rather than whispers the command that will unleash the geomatic properties of the stone. A sphere of defense envelops Pugg, his only protection from the teeth of the huge, ancient fish.

One is finally killed. Then, quickly, another. It takes a longer time for the third to die, but it does. None of the other fish from the schools can be seen. Thank Nocturnal they've swam in another direction.

But, it's just Pugg now, swimming in the dark water, facing off with the last ancient slaughter fish.

And, Pugg is wondering...was this really a smart thing to do? Maybe excitement at one of the inns in Leyawiin would have been excietment enough.

Maybe Pugg wasn't so smart coming in here.







That encounter just happened in my game, just before I logged on to write this. The mod, at the top, is one that does exactly what it advertises it will do. When your armor is torn to shreds (AR 0), you will no longer be able to wear it. In the story, at the end with the ancient slaughterfish battle, Pugg was wearing just his cape by the end of the fight. Everything else had been so torn and cut that it provided no Armor Rating bonus, and thus, was not shown on Pugg's avatar.

I like this mod because it does do exactly what it says it will do. I had no problems with it. It works flawlessly, and it seems to work with any type of armor, no matter if you got it from a vanilla source or added via a mod.

On the other hand, all you have to do is go see a smith, and, as normal, the smith will fix your armor. All will be good as new.

What this mod needs to make it desireable is a function where armor that has been reduced to AR 0 is either un-repairable, or that its AR will never be the same (Say it provided you with an AR 10. Now, after having been reduced to AR 0 and then repaired, it will only provid an AR 9, even when at 100%.)

Otherwise, this mod, for me, tends to be immersion-breaking more than it is immersion-increasing. You'll be walking around in the nude a lot if you use this mod. Between the two extremes, I'd pick walking around with the armor on (and just having an AR 0, as it is in the vanilla game).

Given that, I'll have to give this mod a thumbsdown.gif rating. But, it is a good idea. Some will like it "as is". I'd like to see the changes I recommend above implemented, because an idea like this can be changed from a "not recommended" to a "must have" with just a few tweaks.



EDIT: Oh, I forgot to mention.... If wearing magical armor, you still get the benefit of the magical properties of the armor, even though the AR is 0, in the vanilla game. Using this mod will change that (since you are not allowed to wear armor with AR 0). That's actually a "plus" for this mod, and I think you realism lovers out there will dig it.

As for me, I will still have to give this mod a thumbs down, although it's a conditional thumbs down. I think there will be some immersionists out there who like the mod "as is", as I said above. And, I think the idea behind this mod is fantastic. It just needs some more functionality (as I describe above) in order for me to recommend it for your load order.

We only get 255 mods we can put into the game. I'm trying to make sure all of those are fantastic mods. We don't have room for the "almost fantastic" and those good ideas that "could be fantastic". I think this mod falls into the later category.



Posted by: Darina Oct 21 2007, 12:23 AM

Hey Delte,

Nice story of your little mermaid getting wet behind the ears! frog.gif

Finally I've decided to well... yeah... 'bout time... to turn off the music. I pretty much liked the music and I had some good third party stuff.
So now it's gone! And it is a whole new feeling. I really TRY to hear what is around the next bend of the cave. I still have to become accustomed to that. Those goblins are really quiet! But it's kinda cool to enter a cave and hear that orc scout squeal while a bunch of gobos are ripping him to shreds.

Greetz! Darina

PS: I thought you were using reduced, reduced spawn rates? (25-30 slaughterfish!?!)



Posted by: thylantyr Oct 21 2007, 12:25 AM

Grumble Sounds for Real Hunger v1_4

Tried it, I like it.

One issue. Grumble Sounds for Real Hunger implies you need both mods which I was running and it didn't work, lol ...............



Posted by: Delte Oct 21 2007, 12:29 AM

QUOTE(Darina @ Oct 20 2007, 05:23 PM)
Finally I've decided to well... yeah... 'bout time... to turn off the music. I pretty much liked the music and I had some good third party stuff.
So now it's gone! And it is a whole new feeling. I really TRY to hear what is around the next bend of the cave. I still have to become accustomed to that. Those goblins are really quiet! But it's kinda cool to enter a cave and hear that orc scout squeal while a bunch of gobos are ripping him to shreds.


You can hear their feet piter-pat on the stone, if you listen. Adjust your Audio.



QUOTE
PS: I thought you were using reduced, reduced spawn rates? (25-30 slaughterfish!?!)


I am using Reduced, Reduced. You've seen it in my load order. That's what I like about Reduced, Reduced. Sometimes, you run into something like that, and sometimes you don't.

Not kidding. There were three schools of slaughterfish, 8-12 fish per school, all swimming together in that huge underwater cavern. The cavern is quite large, and I couldn't see across it in the dark and water.

Luckily, Pugg has so far excaped having to fight all of them at once. He much prefers never having to engage. He'd rather sneak around and leave everything living than having to fight everything he sees.

But, yes, 25-30 slaughterfish while using Reduced-Reduced.

It does happen.



Posted by: Darina Oct 21 2007, 12:35 AM

A question concerning audio adjustments:

I have footsteps on 100%, speech 85% and effects 75%. It's still very hard to hear the gobos feet. Which slider affects them?
Any recommendations?

Thanks! Darina



Posted by: Cipscis Oct 21 2007, 12:39 AM

Hey guys, sorry I haven't replied in a while, unfortunately all the action seems to happen while my side of the world is asleep, lol. What I mean by "it's all done by scripts" means that instead of using a new alchemy effect to restore hunger, there is a script which detects when you eat food and how much of which food you've eaten, and restores your hunger accordingly.

For Delte, sorry about not re-releasing a fixed version with the old Restore Hunger effect still there, I didn't realise you liked it that much, lol. I'm going to update the script on one of my 1.4 RH versions so that you can customise the rate at which your hunger increases while you sleep/wait but the foods still restore your hunger by the new alchemy effect. Oh, and don't worry about an alternate Real Hunger 1.5 coming out, I've asked the last updater, Thingamajig, for permission and he's given it to me (seemed pretty keen to try it out himself, actually).

For Thylantyr, Real Hunger 1.4 restored your hunger when you ate food items because it had replaced one of their four alchemy effects (the one you get when you eat them) with a script effect "Restore Hunger". In Real Hunger 1.5 at the moment this has been changed (they have their original alchemy effects) but because Delte has asked, I'm going to release a version that uses the old method of restoring your hunger, but with the added ability to customise how quickly your hunger increases when you die. Also, I'm going to alter the .esp files I've already released so that any Restore Hunger potions the character has left over if they changed from 1.4 will still work. Perhaps in future releases these will be added to merchants/loot lists, so you can have both restore fatigue and restore hunger potions

Any other requests (or bugs, please tell me right away, I hate 'em!) please let me know, chances are I'll be happy to oblige!

Cipscis



Posted by: Shield Watcher Oct 21 2007, 01:26 AM

QUOTE(Shield Watcher @ Oct 20 2007, 06:10 PM)
Ok. Thanks for the reply.

But I find when I look in the Data\Sound\fx there is no `ui` folder.

What i did was make a `UI` folder and put them in there. Perhaps this will work.


Ok, just replying to my own posts here because this may help others.

You DO need to create a new `UI` folder and pop the silent wavs in. I just went near Wynon Priory and where the usual `ping` would sound letting you know you`re where you already know you are! 72_72.gif there was no `pingy` sound. smile.gif


Did someone mention thay don`t listen to music in game? neither do I. while music is immersive, I prefer the `music` of the sound effects around me. I also like the fact that I have to keep my eyes wide open because the music doesn`t act as an alarm... more realistic and more immersive for me!



Posted by: Delte Oct 21 2007, 01:46 AM

QUOTE(Darina @ Oct 20 2007, 05:35 PM)
A question concerning audio adjustments:

I have footsteps on 100%, speech 85% and effects 75%. It's still very hard to hear the gobos feet. Which slider affects them?
Any recommendations?


Here are my settings. These seem to work well for me (been using it this way for a long, long time).

Master 100%

Voice 25% (I like the realism of the rain or noise drowning out what people say sometimes).

Effects 75%

Footsteps 40% (I don't like my own footsteps overbearing, but I like to hear 'em).

Music 0% (Disabled in ini)

Try that and see how it works for you.

I should also say that I've got one of those new X-Fi sound cards, plus a Klipsch THX certified speaker system, and some JVC headphones when I don't want to wake the roomy up. It may be a soundcard/speaker issue too.



EDIT: I play with the game quite LOUD too. I mean, the windows shake, and I'm sure my neighbors always know when I'm playing. When I need to be quiet, at night, I use the headphones.

The footy pats are light sounds. That may be why I can pick 'em so easily...because I've the shiiiit turned up so loud.


Posted by: migthegreat Oct 21 2007, 03:11 AM

I’m honored that you would like me to speak on this thread about my mod, since I put a lot of work into trying to make Intelligence more realistic, and am glad it is at least considered on this thread.

However instead of using this as an opportunity to advertise my mod and get more downloads so I can feel special, I will be as objective as possible so that this response can be useful to my fellow realism lovers smile.gif. This self review of my mod explains my reasons for making the mod, the goals I wanted to accomplish, how well I think I accomplished those goals, and finally how all the problems will change in the upcoming Overhaul of Intelligence Overhaul.


My Reasons for Making IO......

I found Intelligence in Oblivion to be a pretty boring attribute, only boasting a single function, to give you magicka. It's not just that I find clicking Intelligence every level up to be a bland way of increasing your magicka. I mostly felt dissatisfied with the attribute when I imagined what it could have been. In reality, Intelligence is mankind's single greatest advantage over other species. It is what allows us to learn about the world around us, and more importantly, learn how to deal with and control that world. I felt that at least a portion of this should be represented in the game, which is when I decided to create Better Intelligence, which eventually became Intelligence Overhaul. When you think about the realistic advantages of being Intelligent, you realize its potential importance to every class in the game. Even great warriors have to go through a lot to learning to excel in combat. There are a lot of intricacies in the technique of fighting, something I've learned partly through experience, by training in martial arts. Being Intelligent allows you to learn such intricacies more quickly than a dumber individual, and allows you to apply this knowledge more effectively in combat by utilizing it at the right times. An Intelligent fighter may also have a greater ability to see patterns in an opponent's defense, and use more effective strategies in taking that opponent down. If you can see the benefit of Intelligence in warrior, then should have no trouble applying this concept to the other classes. Applied realistically to the game, Intelligence should be an Attribute that could benefit anyone. With this is mind I started planning Intelligence Overhaul

My Goals for IO......

I made Intelligence Overhaul with four specific goals mind. I wanted the final product to make the Intelligence Attribute realistic, interesting and useful to all types of characters, while at the same time remaining balanced. You could go read the whole list of features in my readme, so I won’t go into too much detail. But basically, I tried to accomplish this by having Intelligence affect how fast you acquire skills (because smart people learn faster), how many times you can train every level (to represent a greater capacity for learning), how much it costs to train (because learning faster wastes less of the trainers time and thus less of your money), and how much skill benefit you receive from books (because a more intelligent individual can generally learn more from the same material, understand it better, and/or apply it better to life situations). I also tried to balance the new affects of Intelligence by reducing its affect on Magicka, allowing skills to pick up the rest of the slack. This would also serve the dual purpose of making the process of gaining Magicka more interesting. As you use improve your magical skills you will start to see immediate gains in your magical reserve. And finally, to accomplish the goal of making this accessible to all classes I made it so reading improves your Intelligence. To gain the benefit you actually must have the book opened long enough, encouraging you to actually read it.

My Opinion of the Outcome......

Realism

I feel that the mod succeeds in adding a bit of realism to the game. Obviously I can’t emulate the attribute perfectly, but the Attribute benefits and the book system actually makes you feel like your character is using his mind, and becoming smarter. There is only one problem with realism, that you can’t read books outside of your inventory. This was done to force you to buy the book so people couldn’t just enjoy the benefits without paying a little first. However many users of the mod have complained that this detracts from immersion.

Interest Factor

This mod was not only about realism, it was about making the attribute more interesting as well. Ironically I feel that I made the reading system much more interesting than the Attribute itself. Many people who use my mod have complimented me on my reading system, and some have even said that they now are habitual Oblivion readers when before they never picked up a book. It took a lot of work to set up that system because every single book needed a unique script, so I’m very glad it turned out well. But no-one reports feeling that they really have a greater incentive to put points into Intelligence. I’ve never had a warrior coming to my forum and tell me that this mod has had any real affect on their game. Mages who use the mod still allocate points into Intelligence because they need it anyway. However other classes tend to enjoy the mod for the reading system, which gives them some nice realism and some extra Intelligence points without actually sacrificing their level up bonus. The problem here is that the major benefit of Intelligence (the skill factor) only has a significant affect over time, so it is not enough of an incentive for a warrior to choose it over a physical attribute. Many people have also enjoyed the Magicka system, but I’d still like to tweak it a bit.

Balance


I feel that IO’s balance is off. Intelligence is fairly easy to obtain now (depending on what settings you choose), and lowering the Magicka benefit doesn’t balance it out because you end up gaining more Magicka through skills. Most report that they actually don't notice any unbalancing. This tells me that balance is not too far off, but also that I didn't make Intelligence effective enough.

Compatibility

I did a good job of making the mod as compatible as possible, but the one area I could do very little about was the book system. Every book needed an individual script so this made it incompatible with anything that changed books. I created a compatibility patch for Book Jackets, but my book system still couldn’t apply to new books added by other mods.

Intelligence Overhaul Overhauled

I am planning to redo the entire mod and deal with every single issue mentioned above.
The most drastic change is that now Intelligence will be completely disconnected from Magicka, fixing the issue with balance. The games current Intelligence attribute will be renamed, and I will create an artificial attribute called Intelligence. Every character will have to gain intelligence points in the same way, by reading, so any class can be as intelligent as the next. To fix the books system I will create a general script that applies to all books, removing all incompatibility issues. It will measure how much time you spend reading, and will convert that into point towards Intelligence. There will also be options that account for how fast you read, so slower readers will not benefit more from the same book than faster readers. These are just the major changes, but I am in a hurry at the moment and will leave you with that. I will update everyone with my progress, and with a better idea of how the mod will turn out later.

I hope I didn't give you way more information about my mod than you wanted to know smile.gif. Good night to everyone, Ill read responses tomorrow. In the meantime enjoy your realism talk on this excellent thread.

Oh I also wanted to mention that making this mod has really taught me how to script. So although I feel I could improve alot upon this mod, I am still glad I roughed through it, because making it has made me a better moder.



Posted by: Cipscis Oct 21 2007, 03:34 AM

Hey guys, Real Hunger has just been updated to version 1.5.1, because I've added in two "Classic" versions, which are basically Real Hunger 1.4 except the user has the ability to customise how quickly they get hungry while they sleep/wait (see readme for details). I've also fixed a few bugs in the "Original Alchemy Edition", so that there should no longer be any quests involving food items that don't work, and any Restore Hunger potions left over in the player's inventory from changing .esp files should still be functional (but if there are still any bugs, please let me know right away!)
Enjoy!

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13565

Cipscis

EDIT:

Oops... The sound files are now part of the download too, sorry for anyone who was getting this for the first time and wasn't hearing the sounds because of this



Posted by: CptJoker Oct 21 2007, 04:19 AM

QUOTE(thylantyr @ Oct 20 2007, 11:25 PM)
One issue. Grumble Sounds for Real Hunger implies you need both mods which I was running and it didn't work, lol ...............


Well... it didn't seem courteous to call my mod a Real Hunger since all I did was add some sound effects... Besides it's all nicely packaged in Ciscis' new version anyway, and I like his additions like the lowered hunger from sleep.

And I did try to write it as BIG as possible in the readme not to use another version of Real Hunger with it smile.gif

@Cipscis: Is your release reliant on MMM or SI at all?


Posted by: Cipscis Oct 21 2007, 04:27 AM

QUOTE(CptJoker @ Oct 21 2007, 03:19 PM)
Well... it didn't seem courteous to call my mod a Real Hunger since all I did was add some sound effects... Besides it's all nicely packaged in Cipscis' new version anyway, and I like his additions like the lowered hunger from sleep.

And I did try to write it as BIG as possible in the readme not to use another version of Real Hunger with it smile.gif

@Cipscis: Is your release reliant on MMM or SI at all?

My release contains foods from MMM and SI, unfortunately (due to time constraints), I haven't been able to make versions that don't need this. If anyone wants to do this, go right ahead and I'll upload it to the site


Posted by: Delte Oct 21 2007, 05:12 AM

Quick question to you Blind Lockpickers out there... Is it me, or is it easier to pick a lock using the blind lockpick mod?

I know I'm picking locks easier, but it may be due to Pugg having found the Skeleton Key and getting a +40 to his Security.

Is blind locking damn hard, or did the modder make it easier since it was "blind"?







One more question about The Secret Way mod. I threw it in my game, and, as usual, I didn't read the readme because I didn't want to be spoiled as to where the secret ways were. Well... I'm in Leyawiin tonight, sneaking around the Count's quarters, and I find a secret passage that connects to a secret torture room. And, that room connects to the castle basement--which connects to the audience room. It's an easy way to avoid the guards! Pugg is smiling! I'm just curious, though. Is this vanilla? Or is this the mod? Is this live? Or is this Memorex?



Posted by: Cipscis Oct 21 2007, 05:18 AM

QUOTE(Delte @ Oct 21 2007, 04:12 PM)
Quick question to you Blind Lockpickers out there... Is it me, or is it easier to pick a lock using the blind lockpick mod?

I know I'm picking locks easier, but it may be due to Pugg having found the Skeleton Key and getting a +40 to his Security.

Is blind locking damn hard, or did the modder make it easier since it was "blind"?
One more question about The Secret Way mod. I threw it in my game, and, as usual, I didn't read the readme because I didn't want to be spoiled as to where the secret ways were. Well... I'm in Leyawiin tonight, sneaking around the Count's quarters, and I find a secret passage that connects to a secret torture room. And, that room connects to the castle basement--which connects to the audience room. It's an easy way to avoid the guards! Pugg is smiling! I'm just curious, though. Is this vanilla? Or is this the mod? Is this live? Or is this Memorex?

As far as I know, that secret passage is in the vanilla game. It may have been added to by The Secret Way though. As for Blind Lockpicking, I didn't notice a decrease in difficulty myself, but that's just my opinion. I suppose it wouldn't really make sense to decrease the difficulty when people can just auto-attempt anyway.


Posted by: CptJoker Oct 21 2007, 05:20 AM

QUOTE(Delte @ Oct 21 2007, 04:12 AM)
Quick question to you Blind Lockpickers out there... Is it me, or is it easier to pick a lock using the blind lockpick mod?


It seems to be the same; I ran out of lockpicks for the first time ever.


Posted by: Delte Oct 21 2007, 05:24 AM

QUOTE(CptJoker @ Oct 20 2007, 10:20 PM)
It seems to be the same; I ran out of lockpicks for the first time ever.


I seem to be able to shove the pin up into the hold and click in in place on the first attempt, very often. Just shove, click, done. I guess it's the increase in Security skill to 79 that's doing that.

I'm about to put this on Delte's List, but I wanted to make sure the difficulty hadn't be made easier. I noted in the readme that the author thought the blind lockpicking was damn hard. I just wanted to make sure he didn't make it easier when he made it "blind".



Posted by: CptJoker Oct 21 2007, 05:28 AM

QUOTE(Delte @ Oct 21 2007, 04:24 AM)
I just wanted to make sure he didn't make it easier when he made it "blind".


Trust me: locks have me cursing under my breath now.


Posted by: Elovia Oct 21 2007, 05:31 AM

QUOTE(Delte @ Oct 20 2007, 07:24 PM)
I seem to be able to shove the pin up into the hold and click in in place on the first attempt, very often. Just shove, click, done. I guess it's the increase in Security skill to 79 that's doing that.

I'm about to put this on Delte's List, but I wanted to make sure the difficulty hadn't be made easier. I noted in the readme that the author thought the blind lockpicking was damn hard. I just wanted to make sure he didn't make it easier when he made it "blind".


Start a new character with Security as main, then see if blind lockpicking is easy as you think. wink.gif

I'm not trying to be snide ... just suggesting a way for you to test your l33t 5k1Lz to see if it's you or memorex.




Posted by: Delte Oct 21 2007, 05:34 AM

QUOTE(CptJoker @ Oct 20 2007, 10:28 PM)
Trust me: locks have me cursing under my breath now.


LOL! 1277.gif I'm going to list the http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=9258 mod along with it, after I've finished testing. This will allow you to buy a file from various merchants. With the file in your inventory, you'll be able to make lockpicks (it's a % chance, not automatic) from metal clutter you find, like rakes and calipers and such.

If you've run out of lockpicks, you might want to give that mod a go. (And, if you do, post a review here, will ya? I'd be interested in your thoughts.)







EDIT:

@Cipscis

Hey, I've downloaded RH 1.5.1., now. I can see that there are multiple choices. Yea! thumbsup.gif .

Now, tell me, what's the difference in the script you wrote and how RH worked before? (As Denzel Washington would say in the film "Philledelphia", sometimes you've got to talk to me like I'm a 3 year old.)


Posted by: Cipscis Oct 21 2007, 05:55 AM

QUOTE(Delte @ Oct 21 2007, 04:34 PM)
LOL! 1277.gif I'm going to list the http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=9258 mod along with it, after I've finished testing. This will allow you to buy a file from various merchants. With the file in your inventory, you'll be able to make lockpicks (it's a % chance, not automatic) from metal clutter you find, like rakes and calipers and such.

If you've run out of lockpicks, you might want to give that mod a go. (And, if you do, post a review here, will ya? I'd be interested in your thoughts.)
EDIT:

@Cipscis

Hey, I've downloaded RH 1.5.1., now. I can see that there are multiple choices. Yea! thumbsup.gif .

Now, tell me, what's the difference in the script you wrote and how RH worked before? (As Denzel Washington would say in the film "Philledelphia", sometimes you've got to talk to me like I'm a 3 year old.)

How it used to work is:

Every time you ate a food item you'd activate a script effect which would decrease your "hunger level" (called RHLevel) by a certain number (which depends on the food). This works fine, but it replaces an alchemy ingredient


How I've changed it:

The new script works on the basis that there are four way in which the number of food items in your inventory changes:
1. You pick up a food item (or have it placed in your inventory by a script)
2. You drop a food item (or have it removed from your inventory by a script)
3. You buy or sell a food item
4. You eat a food item

Each food item in the game has a script attached to it that checks, whenever one of the first three events happens (i.e. the number of food items in your inventory changes without you eating any), the total "hunger value" of food items in your inventory, and assigns it to two different variables (RHFoodBefore and RHFoodAfter). It does this by checking how many of each food item there is in your inventory, then multiplying each number by the "hunger value" of that item, and adding them all together. This script is entirely new in the "Original Alchemy Edition".

There is another script (which was included in the older versions and is altered in the "Original Alchemy Edition") which, amongst other things, checks the total "hunger value" of food items in your inventory (just like the other script), but it only assigns it to the variable RHFoodAfter. If, at any point, RHFoodBefore is bigger than RHFoodAfter, the difference in these two variable is subtracted from your "hunger level", making you less hungry and restoring your attributes.

For the first script, some food items (like Nirnroot, for example) already had quest scripts associated with them. I've simply added the functionality of the first script to these quest scripts (I overwrote some in 1.5 by mistake, but this should be all fixed up in 1.5.1) so the quests shouldn't be broken. That's also why the .esp file is quite large, because there are multiple copies of the script, but the script will only run when you pick up, drop, buy or sell the appropriate food item, so it doesn't cause lag.

I hope that made sense

Cipscis


Posted by: Delte Oct 21 2007, 06:36 AM

QUOTE(Cipscis @ Oct 20 2007, 10:55 PM)
I hope that made sense


It does, I think, after I read it about three times. 804.gif

OK, I think I've got a problem here: I'm using 1.5.1, Classic Edition, with Immersive Grumble Sounds (of course...you made that one for me, right! 1146.gif ). With the old RH 1.4, one would go to bed, get up, and eat waaaayyy too much. That needed to be fixed.

I understand you fixed this in 1.5.1, but I'm wondering if you fixed it too much.

Pugg was dead tired after pushing himself. He had some stuff he needed to get done after being up all night "on the job". So, he hit the genral merchant, stopped by to see the alchemist at the Mages Guild, sold some stuff to the smith, and did a deed with his fence.

Pugg was dead tired. He rented a room at the inn and hit the sack. He needed 11 hours of sleep...and I gave that to him. He slept until 5:30 AM the next morning.

OK, so...I was expecting for Pugg to be hungry. Not as hungry as with RH 1.4, but hungry for breakfast.

Do you know how much food he needed? Just 1 point according to the message on my stats page. (I normally don't even look at the number of points of food needed--I usually just role play it--but I was testing out the mod.) Just one strawberry for breakfast.

Doesn't that seem a bit "lite" to you?







EDIT:

RE Real Sleep


Who's working on upgrading Real Sleep? Just CptJoker, or is Cipscis helping him? Anyone else?

I've got a request. When the sleep menu comes up, we're told exactly how many hours is needed for sleep. Can we remove that so that the player has to "guess"?

I think the "stats" page, where the player can see how many exact food units he needs should be left alone. There will be players out there who are lesser roleplayers and will want to know, exactly, to the hour, how much sleep they need. Well, they can look on the stats page for that, get that info, plus how many units of food they need. Let's leave that as is.

But, when going to bed, the menu pops up asking you how many hours you'd like to sleep. Well, also a message pops up telling you how many hours of sleep you need. Let's take that out.

Everyone agree?


Posted by: Cipscis Oct 21 2007, 06:40 AM

QUOTE(Delte @ Oct 21 2007, 05:36 PM)
It does, I think, after I read it about three times. 804.gif

OK, I think I've got a problem here: I'm using 1.5.1, Classic Edition, with Immersive Grumble Sounds (of course...you made that one for me, right! 1146.gif ). With the old RH 1.4, one would go to bed, get up, and eat waaaayyy too much. That needed to be fixed.

I understand you fixed this in 1.5.1, but I'm wondering if you fixed it too much.

Pugg was dead tired after pushing himself. He had some stuff he needed to get done after being up all night "on the job". So, he hit the genral merchant, stopped by to see the alchemist at the Mages Guild, sold some stuff to the smith, and did a deed with his fence.

Pugg was dead tired. He rented a room at the inn and hit the sack. He needed 11 hours of sleep...and I gave that to him. He slept until 5:30 AM the next morning.

OK, so...I was expecting for Pugg to be hungry. Not as hungry as with RH 1.4, but hungry for breakfast.

Do you know how much food he needed? Just 1 point according to the message on my stats page. (I normally don't even look at the number of points of food needed--I usually just role play it--but I was testing out the mod.) Just one strawberry for breakfast.

Doesn't that seem a bit "lite" to you?

Yeah, I agree, but there is a reason for this. I was asked to fix the sleep "bug" by someone who wanted to not get hungry at all while sleeping. While I myself didn't entirely like this idea, I went ahead and fixed it, making it customisable. I left the default speed at which you get hungry while you're sleeping/waiting to 0x the speed of when you're awake, because that's what was requested.

However, as I mentioned before (and in the readme), I made this customisable. If you open the console, and type "set RHSleepMult to x" (without quotes), where x is how many times faster you get hungry when you're asleep than when you're awake. By default this is 0, but I'd probably go with something like 0.5 (so you'd type "set RHSleepMult to 0.5" without quotes, and you'd get hungry only half as fast as when you're awake). Unfortunately, everyone has different tastes, which is why I made it customisable.

Just to make myself clear, I agree with you wholeheartedly!

Cipscis

EDIT:

As for Real Sleep, I agree with you there too (I removed it for myself already, but I don't have that on my laptop). I don't know who's currently maintaining it, but I believe CptJoker is working on yawning sounds for it? In the meantime, I'll release an identicle esp (I'd like permission but the author hasn't been active for over a year...) which gives the user the ability to turn these messages off with the console. How does that sound?

Cipscis


Posted by: Delte Oct 21 2007, 06:45 AM

QUOTE(Cipscis @ Oct 20 2007, 11:40 PM)
However, as I mentioned before (and in the readme), I made this customisable.


Well, slap me on the head for being a noob and not reading the readme. I apologize.

Whew! I thought it was a bug!

You suggest a value of 0.5. Just so I can compare, what's the closest value to duplicate RH 1.4? I'd probably want to go a half or a third of that.







EDIT:

QUOTE
As for Real Sleep, I agree with you there too (I removed it for myself already, but I don't have that on my laptop). I don't know who's currently maintaining it, but I believe CptJoker is working on yawning sounds for it? I could send him an esp file with the changes made as soon as I have access to it (or just tell him how, it's a really simple change) and it could be released with the new version with yawning sounds. How does that sound?


It sounds like peach cobbler and a cold root beer on a hot July day. thumbsup.gif


Posted by: Cipscis Oct 21 2007, 06:47 AM

QUOTE(Delte @ Oct 21 2007, 05:45 PM)
Well, slap me on the head for being a noob and not reading the readme. I apologize.

Whew! I thought it was a bug!

You suggest a value of 0.5. Just so I can compare, what's the closest value to duplicate RH 1.4? I'd probably want to go a half or a third of that.

To emulate RH 1.4, just use a value of 1. That means you'll get hungry as quickly when you're asleep as when you're awake (just like you used to)

Cipscis


Posted by: Delte Oct 21 2007, 06:49 AM

QUOTE(Cipscis @ Oct 20 2007, 11:47 PM)
To emulate RH 1.4, just use a value of 1. That means you'll get hungry as quickly when you're asleep as when you're awake (just like you used to)


Ah-haaa... Which is why you recommend a value of 0.5. I can see you and I have similar tastes.






EDIT:
I think there's A LOT of GOOD things that have come out of this on-going thread. Community. Sharing immersion mod preferences. Helping those new to mods make informed decisions. Giving people a starting place for realism mods with Delte's List, helping them wade through the vast sea of choices out there. The personal mod reviews and recommendations that pop up. Having mod authors come and speak about their mods.

But, if I had to pick one aspect of this thread that I'm most pleased with, is that it's actually had an effect! We're actually creating something here!

StarX's better, improved Drop Lit Torch.

Cipscis' and CptJoker's better, improved Real Hunger. (With Real Sleep on the way.)

RebelMax's improved version of Q's More And Moldy Ingredients

Pingveen's awesome Less Food mod.

Just look at that list! It's an immersion-lover's wet dream!

Kudos to you "Delte's List Tweakers" out there. All of you.

Yes, I'm most proud (and pleased) with that aspect of the thread. foodndrink.gif


Posted by: Cipscis Oct 21 2007, 06:51 AM

QUOTE(Delte @ Oct 21 2007, 05:45 PM)
It sounds like peach cobbler and a cold root beer on a hot July day. thumbsup.gif

Lol, I should be so lucky... It's winter in July where I come from, lol

CptJoker, if you want me to give you a hand (i.e. you don't already know how to do it yourself, I don't really know how much you know about scripting but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if you could do this yourself in the blink of an eye) with removing that message telling you how many hours you need to sleep right before you sleep, just send me a PM. If you don't need a hand, all the better, lol

Cipscis

EDIT:

QUOTE(Delte @ Oct 21 2007, 05:49 PM)
Ah-haaa... Which is why you recommend a value of 0.5. I can see you and I have similar tastes.

Well thanks for the compliment! I haven't really had a chance to test this value out yet, it just sounded about right to me. Let me know what you think!

Cipscis


Posted by: Aldwen Oct 21 2007, 07:12 AM

Humm... I have a question about MMM...

I don't know if it's just me but does MMM feel really vanilla in level scaling? I noticed this last night and at first dismissed it as "luck" but after a number of incidents I'm curious. At level ONE I've yet to be challenged dry.gif I've now plundered one Aylied ruin and a Tomb without so much as coming close to death. Not to mention a bandit encounter I had where I was able to clean up 3 bandits, one archer and two warriors... There's also a goblin incident where, same thing, a groups of 3 or 4 gobbies proved about as hard as they did in vanilla.

I know when I was running just OOO every turn was deadly at level one. Plundering a tomb or a ruin was a real challenge, most of the time I would only ever make it through a few rooms before the beasties became to strong to fight off. Even wandering the woods was dangerous, I came across a HUGE orge in the woods early on and was forced to run for my life, same thing with a Land Dreugh heading to Leyawiin. Now with OOO and MMM running I've having no trouble at all. The monsters, while varied, seem to put up about a good of a fight as vanilla monsters did and I'm not seeing the massive varieties I thought I would.

This is REALLY disappointing as I was hopping the MMM add-on would add even more tension to plundering and exploring.

I'm not sure if I'm jumping to conclusions though... Does anyone else have this feeling? Maybe it's a mod conflict, but I doubt it OOO/MMM is pretty much last on my list (and yeah I'm using the MMM for OOO.esp) Is this just a low level thing maybe? Or even, could it be that I'm still staying close to towns? I know when I warped over to Kvatch to test this "vanilla" feeling I was dead in the blink of an eye over there. I don't know, so far I'm not impressed, tonight though, I'm going to do a bit more exploring and see what I find.



Posted by: Cipscis Oct 21 2007, 07:19 AM

QUOTE(Aldwen @ Oct 21 2007, 06:12 PM)
Humm... I have a question about MMM...

I don't know if it's just me but does MMM feel really vanilla in level scaling? I noticed this last night and at first dismissed it as "luck" but after a number of incidents I'm curious. At level ONE I've yet to be challenged dry.gif I've now plundered one Aylied ruin and a Tomb without so much as coming close to death. Not to mention a bandit encounter I had where I was able to clean up 3 bandits, one archer and two warriors... There's also a goblin incident where, same thing, a groups of 3 or 4 gobbies proved about as hard as they did in vanilla.

I know when I was running just OOO every turn was deadly at level one. Plundering a tomb or a ruin was a real challenge, most of the time I would only ever make it through a few rooms before the beasties became to strong to fight off. Even wandering the woods was dangerous, I came across a HUGE orge in the woods early on and was forced to run for my life, same thing with a Land Dreugh heading to Leyawiin. Now with OOO and MMM running I've having no trouble at all. The monsters, while varied, seem to put up about a good of a fight as vanilla monsters did and I'm not seeing the massive varieties I thought I would.

This is REALLY disappointing as I was hopping the MMM add-on would add even more tension to plundering and exploring.

I'm not sure if I'm jumping to conclusions though... Does anyone else have this feeling? Maybe it's a mod conflict, but I doubt it OOO/MMM is pretty much last on my list (and yeah I'm using the MMM for OOO.esp) Is this just a low level thing maybe? Or even, could it be that I'm still staying close to towns? I know when I warped over to Kvatch to test this "vanilla" feeling I was dead in the blink of an eye over there. I don't know, so far I'm not impressed, tonight though, I'm going to do a bit more exploring and see what I find.

I found the same, but perhaps not to the extent that you have. I found that, unlike in OOO alone, it was no longer suicide to take on 2 bandits at level 1 without traps nearby, but I still found enough higher level enemies (I'm talking over 15 levels higher than me!) to be challenged and forced to run away. I personally though it might be a little too easy at lower levels, but not enough to make it not worth the variation it added to the game. In my opinion (to put it in Delte's words) "the cool was worth the cost".

Cipscis


Posted by: Aldwen Oct 21 2007, 07:26 AM

Super weak.

Cipscis you seem to be quite talented at the CS, how difficult would it be for me to go in and change the level-lists? I remember back in the Morrowind days I could navigate the CS well enough to make my own mod in which there was "no" level-lists in a sense. A level one player had the same chance to see a crazy strong monster as a level 50 character did...

If it is possible, would doing so mess up MMM in some weird way? I wouldn't go the extreme like I did in MW but I would certainly tweak it to make it much harder and more OOOish, if it costs me the mod though sad.gif


EDIT: About to open CS and poke around... Would it be your opinion to use all my MMM add-ons when opening the MMM/OOO.esp as an active file? Or just use the MMM/OOO.esp and let the others be?



Posted by: Cipscis Oct 21 2007, 07:30 AM

For those interested, I've uploaded an interim update of Real Sleep (while we wait for CptJoker's release) http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13588 where you have the option (check the readme for instructions) of turning off the message that appears when you open the sleep menu. That is the ONLY change I have made at the moment. If CptJoker could send me a PM I'll set it up so he (I assume?) can freely edit this file without needing me to upload anything for him. Enjoy!

Cipscis



Posted by: Cipscis Oct 21 2007, 07:34 AM

QUOTE(Aldwen @ Oct 21 2007, 06:26 PM)
Super weak.

Cipscis you seem to be quite talented at the CS, how difficult would it be for me to go in and change the level-lists? I remember back in the Morrowind days I could navigate the CS well enough to make my own mod in which there was "no" level-lists in a sense. A level one player had the same chance to see a crazy strong monster as a level 50 character did...

If it is possible, would doing so mess up MMM in some weird way? I wouldn't go the extreme like I did in MW but I would certainly tweak it to make it much harder and more OOOish, if it costs me the mod though sad.gif
EDIT: About to open CS and poke around... Would it be your opinion to use all my MMM add-ons when opening the MMM/OOO.esp as an active file? Or just use the MMM/OOO.esp and let the others be?

Unfortunately I'm not too experienced with leveled lists and such, mostly scripting for me so far. If it were me, I'd open all of the MMM/OOO plugin files (i.e. the ones that affect these leveled lists) and create a new plugin file (so you can always revert back) that has altered leveled lists in it. It might be a good idea to look in the "details" tab (when you're choosing what data files to open) for your main MMM .esp file and/or the .esm file so you can see what leveled lists are created/changed. Like I said, I'm not too experienced with leveled lists, but hopefully that's at least somewhat right, lol. Good luck!

Cipscis


Posted by: Delte Oct 21 2007, 07:35 AM

QUOTE(Aldwen @ Oct 21 2007, 12:12 AM)
This is REALLY disappointing as I was hopping the MMM add-on would add even more tension to plundering and exploring.


If you're running the set-up that I recommend in Post #2, then what you're experiencing is the easier side of things. You see, some encounters are easy. Some are not. Did you see my post up above about Pugg running into 30 or so slaughterfish? Yeah, you'll definitely find challenges. (Are you using the fatigue mod?)

But, you'll also be able to walk from Imperial City to Weynon Priory without getting into a single encounter. It's more like "life". Sometimes it's dangerous, and sometimes it's not.

I don't agree that OOO+MMM is easier than OOO by itself (or even vanilla). I think there are "pockets" that are easier and "pockets" that are harder.

When I played Kvatch, at Level 1 (went up to Level 2 in the process), Kvatach was the easiest I've ever played it, including vanilla! (It was a welcome change, too, because Kvatch was always super-hard for me--so hard that it felt like an arcade game).

Playing with Reduced Reduced spawns (as recommended in Post #2), you'll sometimes run into a rat or two. No challenge. And, sometimes (more rarely, which is more realistic and immersive in my book), you'll run into an entire goblin war party of 20+ soldiers plus mages.

It just depends.

If you want to up your spawns, then disable Reduced, Reduced, and disable safer roads, and enable Wilderness Life. Or, even enable Extra Spawns.

Doing that, though, I feel like the game is more like vanilla, where there's an encounter over every hill. Playing as I recommend, it will feel more like real life.

Also remember that I use the fatigue mod, and I was using RF 1.7, that is quite harsh on low level characters. When you can only swing your sword two or four times before being winded, well, that sure upped the difficulty a bit.



Posted by: Aldwen Oct 21 2007, 07:52 AM

@Delte

It's not the frequency of monsters rather their difficulty. I'm using Reduced Spawn Rates as well as the RF 1.8 now (tweaked so I can only hold x3 my strength [rather than 8] making it even harder.) I agree that the reduced spawn rates and safer roads are much more real, however I feel that a level one character shouldn't be able to walking deep into the untamed woods w/o and issue or clear out a dungeon, let alone two. I guess it's those pockets of "easy" I don't like... I'm a masochist when it comes to games; please hand my ass to me on a plater if I wander to far at an early level.

@Cipscis

Yeah, I went that route, opening all related MMM and OOO mods (figuring they depend on each other in this instance.) I'ma poke around for a bit, maybe do something productive and then I'll save a new .esp with my "hopeful" level-list changes. As a result, if I'm successful, I could even upload the mod somewhere if there are others who don't like the MMM level-lists



Posted by: Cipscis Oct 21 2007, 08:00 AM

QUOTE(Aldwen @ Oct 21 2007, 06:52 PM)
@Delte

It's not the frequency of monsters rather their difficulty. I'm using Reduced Spawn Rates as well as the RF 1.8 now (tweaked so I can only hold x3 my strength [rather than 8] making it even harder.) I agree that the reduced spawn rates and safer roads are much more real, however I feel that a level one character shouldn't be able to walking deep into the untamed woods w/o and issue or clear out a dungeon, let alone two. I guess it's those pockets of "easy" I don't like... I'm a masochist when it comes to games; please hand my ass to me on a plater if I wander to far at an early level.

@Cipscis

Yeah, I went that route, opening all related MMM and OOO mods (figuring they depend on each other in this instance.) I'ma poke around for a bit, maybe do something productive and then I'll save a new .esp with my "hopeful" level-list changes. As a result, if I'm successful, I could even upload the mod somewhere if there are others who don't like the MMM level-lists

Ah, someone else who's using a 3x strength multiplier for encumbrance (yay, I'm not alone!). I guess I can see both sides of the argument here. While I agree with Delte in that it's more realistic to have a varied experience when it comes to how often you run into enemies and how powerful/numerous they are, but I also agree with Aldwen in that I felt less restricted at a lower level when running MMM and OOO than when I was just running OOO. I liked the idea of having to sneak around dungeons at a low level, taking what I could get to and running away (utilising traps is so much fun with OOO activated!) when I needed to (which was a lot). If you were to do this, I'd definitely look into it, sounds like a great idea! Of course a downside is that it could be a lot of work (but might not be, I'm not too sure to tell the truth), and it might need to be updated alongside MMM and/or OOO, but I say go for it!


Oh, and by the way...
This is my 100th post!! (level up! Initiate -> Acolyte)

Cipscis


Posted by: Delte Oct 21 2007, 08:16 AM

QUOTE(Cipscis @ Oct 21 2007, 01:00 AM)
While I agree with Delte in that it's more realistic to have a varied experience when it comes to how often you run into enemies and how powerful/numerous they are, but I also agree with Aldwen in that I felt less restricted at a lower level when running MMM and OOO than when I was just running OOO. I liked the idea of having to sneak around dungeons at a low level, taking what I could get to and running away (utilising traps is so much fun with OOO activated!) when I needed to (which was a lot).


@Cipscis, @Aldwen

I don't know about you guys, but Pugg was scared shiiit-less to venture out too far from Imperial City. I wasn't lying when I said he spent the first 100 hours of the game in and around the IC. Of course, he was an underpowered character. You may have read before that, for roleplaying reasons, I gave him no armor or block skill as one of his seven majors. I'm sure a fighter character would do better.

On top of this, being a thief, he's been putting every coin he can get into paying his light armor trainer. We all three know know how fast light armor gets defeated in an OOO game.

I fell in love with "being scared" when I first played the Gothic PC game. Gawd, what a game that was. Love every second of it. I thought it was much better than Morrowind. And, Gothic II blew MW out of the competition (but, alas, Oblivion has put Gothic back in its place, including Gothic III. I rank Oblivion right up there with the Baldur's Gate games). Yeah, if you moved out into the woods in Gothic, then you were just going to your own funeral.

Oblivion has been that way for Pugg. Sure, he can get from town to town on foot. But, I absolutely HATE having to re-load. I only do it when Pugg dies. I'll deal with the consequences, even if I made a stupid error. No reload unless Pugg is dead, and I have no choice.

So, this game style fits me.

Say...tell me about the x3 RF. Is that something in the readme? Or is that something that was tweaked?

And, what does x3 vs x8 mean, anyway?


Posted by: Cipscis Oct 21 2007, 08:26 AM

QUOTE(Delte @ Oct 21 2007, 07:16 PM)
@Cipscis, @Aldwen

I don't know about you guys, but Pugg was scared shiiit-less to venture out too far from Imperial City. I wasn't lying when I said he spent the first 100 hours of the game in and around the IC. Of course, he was an underpowered character. You may have read before that, for roleplaying reasons, I gave him no armor or block skill as one of his seven majors. I'm sure a fighter character would do better.

On top of this, being a thief, he's been putting every coin he can get into paying his light armor trainer. We all three know know how fast light armor gets defeated in an OOO game.

I fell in love with "being scared" when I first played the Gothic PC game. Gawd, what a game that was. Love every second of it. I thought it was much better than Morrowind. And, Gothic II blew MW out of the competition (but, alas, Oblivion has put Gothic back in its place, including Gothic III. I rank Oblivion right up there with the Baldur's Gate games). Yeah, if you moved out into the woods in Gothic, then you were just going to your own funeral.

Oblivion has been that way for Pugg. Sure, he can get from town to town on foot. But, I absolutely HATE having to re-load. I only do it when Pugg dies. I'll deal with the consequences, even if I made a stupid error. No reload unless Pugg is dead, and I have no choice.

So, this game style fits me.

Say...tell me about the x3 RF. Is that something in the readme? Or is that something that was tweaked?

And, what does x3 vs x8 mean, anyway?

I tweaked this manually (as in I changed it in the actual .esp file), and I'm assuming Aldwen did it the same way. In vanilla Oblivion the game setting "fActorStrengthEncumbranceMult" was set to a value of 5. This means that you encumbrance is equal to your strength x5. Real Fatigue increases this to x8, so your encumbrance is equal to your strength x8. To me, having a starting character with 40 strength able to carry as much as a normal character with 64 strength felt a little unbalanced, even though it was penalised. Having "fActorStrengthEncumbranceMult" set to 3 felt better to me, but it meant that my 40 strength character had a maximum encumbrance of 120.

Cipscis


Posted by: Delte Oct 21 2007, 08:31 AM

QUOTE(Cipscis @ Oct 21 2007, 01:26 AM)
I tweaked this manually (as in I changed it in the actual .esp file), and I'm assuming Aldwen did it the same way. In vanilla Oblivion the game setting "fActorStrengthEncumbranceMult" was set to a value of 5. This means that you encumbrance is equal to your strength x5. Real Fatigue increases this to x8, so your encumbrance is equal to your strength x8. To me, having a starting character with 40 strength able to carry as much as a normal character with 64 strength felt a little unbalanced, even though it was penalised. Having "fActorStrengthEncumbranceMult" set to 3 felt better to me, but it meant that my 40 strength character had a maximum encumbrance of 120.

Cipscis


I'm changing mine too! x3 it is!

You guys aren't leaving me out, no way. Uh-uh.



EDIT:

I'm getting ready to hit the hay. We've got 15 posts to go before post limit. Do you think I should go ahead and start a new thread? Or, do you think we'll be fine for about 12 hours or so?


Posted by: Cipscis Oct 21 2007, 08:34 AM

QUOTE(Delte @ Oct 21 2007, 07:31 PM)
I'm changing mine too! x3 it is!

You guys aren't leaving me out, no way. Uh-uh.

Yay! I'm a trendsetter!
I've been meaning to try that method of play for a while (only loading when my character dies), but it seems I'm addicted to the quicksave button... I wonder if it can be disabled in the oblivion.ini file or something? Does anyone know? I know it's optional, but it's so much easier when I don't have the option.

Cipscis


Posted by: reallybigjohnson Oct 21 2007, 08:38 AM

QUOTE(Cipscis @ Oct 20 2007, 07:26 AM)
I've updated the Real Hunger Mod again, now you can customise the rate at which your hunger increases while you are sleeping or waiting! To do this, simply open the console (by pressing the "`" key, next to the 1 on your keyboard) and type "set RHSleepMult to x" (without quotes), where x is the factor at which you want your hunger to increase while you sleep or wait. For example, if you want it to increase at the same rate as when you're awake, you'd type "set RHSleepMult to 1" (without quotes), and if you wanted it to be half as fast (as I'd recommend) you'd type "set RHSleepMult to 0.5" (without quotes). By default this is set to 0.

Here's the link again:

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13565
Enjoy!

Cipscis



thanks bunches... this is much better. i just leave it off since in real life i usually skip breakfast anyways, and even if i do eat its a bowl of cereal, not 6 apples 2 hams 4 potatoes and 10 leeks smile.gif . thanks again.


Posted by: Delte Oct 21 2007, 08:39 AM

QUOTE(Cipscis @ Oct 21 2007, 01:34 AM)
Yay! I'm a trendsetter!
I've been meaning to try that method of play for a while (only loading when my character dies), but it seems I'm addicted to the quicksave button... I wonder if it can be disabled in the oblivion.ini file or something? Does anyone know? I know it's optional, but it's so much easier when I don't have the option.


You mis-understood. I save ALL THE FRICKIN' TIME! I walk down the road? I save. I enter a building, I save. I take a nap, I save.

Actually, I don't save that often--I was just exaggerating for the point. But, I do hit the quick save a lot.

It's just that I never re-load unless Pugg is dead. Sometimes, you'll do something stupid (or, I will), and you'd wished you'd turned right instead of left. Well, I never go back and turn right. I play it out, for good or ill for Pugg.

But, when he gets killed, I have no option but to reload (and, I don't have to go back that far because I save so often).





EDIT:

OK, it doesn't look like the thread will hold for 12 hours. I'll start a new one.


Posted by: Aldwen Oct 21 2007, 08:43 AM

@Delte

You'll probably like the x3 tweak to RF. It really does feel a bit more realistic. I made the change after Cipscis told me how to and boy does it change RF!! You REALLY have to be selective on what you carry and how much of it.

No longer can you carry around a few sets of armor, or a few "backup" weapons. You leave home with what you need and that's usually what you return with. My general load-out is a full set of light armor, a sword, a bow, 50 arrows (self-imposed rule as I've never honestly seen a quiver hold more than 20 arrows let alone hundreds) a few potions and food for the road plus a torch. After all that gear I have enough "space" left for a few small light trinkets on the return trip and maybe, if the item is expensive enough, a new equipment item.

It really puts a damper on item looting, and how fast you can get rich, but over all I like the realism. You really start to think about if that 40 gold a night room is worth it when you can't truck a home a few grand in supplies if you're poor.



Posted by: innk Oct 21 2007, 08:52 AM

This thing of changing the strenghtencumbrance modifier sounds awesome in fact ohmy.gif
Can anyone explain me how to this?
I tried to open the .esp on the notepad, i can find the command line, but on the value theres some messed up characters (you know, those squares and other symbols..)..

Do i need to open it on some other program, some mod editing thing or something?

Thanks =p



Posted by: Delte Oct 21 2007, 08:59 AM

We can't change this in the console? The RF Tweak?



Posted by: innk Oct 21 2007, 09:00 AM

Noo... looks like we can not sad.gif
It keeps telling me that there is no such command


edit
unless you need to type it as
Set fActor.............. to X

Im feeling real dumb here, i opened the game, tried to write just the command line, failed, and quited... could've tried with the set parameters



Posted by: Delte Oct 21 2007, 09:01 AM

Time to move to the new thread. I'm going to bed, and I can't wait for five or six lousy posts!

New thread is http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=767632&st=0#entry11135547


Get me back to the top!
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