Get me down to the bottom!

Posted by: Delte Oct 11 2009, 05:16 AM

I'm going to start off Thread #24 a little differently. Usually I just make up some semi-funny (I hope) garble-garble and provide the links to the previous Delte's Threads.

This time, though, you get a story. Well, it's really not a story. It's more of a "moment". It's something cool (and I mean very cool) that just happened in my game. I tell it here because it's a shining example of how much immersion mods can add to your game.

This "moment" concerns http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=6623

Consider this a SPOILER WARNING! What I'm about to tell you contains some lite spoilers from playing that mod. If you're the type that wants to know absolutely nothing about a mod before you play it (and, I don't blame you at all--I'm typically that way, myself), then please skip this first post of this thread.

If, on the other hand, you can handle some very minor spoilers, then read on!








In order to keep this spoiler lite, I'll keep it short and just give you the basics. The Knights of the White Stallion mod expands the original quest found in the vanilla game. I don't know why, but I wasn't expecting much. For some reason, I didn't expect to like the mod, much less keep it for Delte's List.

It's a simple mod. I think it does a masterful job at doing what it promises--to add more weight to KotWS quest in the vanilla game. I think it's as good as JOG's Thievery in the Imperial City. It's really hard to tell where the vanilla quest ends and the mod part begins.

I should also note that this "moment" would not have been possible had I not been testing another mod at the same time: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8273 The latest version of ABO's Realistic Fatigue has a few issues, in my opinion, with the horses. I know ABO is working on changing some things in his next version. But, while I waited for him to do so, I decided to turn off RF for a while. It had been so long since I gamed without RF in my life that I forgot what the game was like without that mod.

This led me to re-test Skycaptain's Deadly Reflex v. 5. I had tested DR before, and I found it a fantastic mod. But, I had also found it not realistic enough for me. Back during that test, I was in a cave fighting an enemy, and the enemy did a perfect backflip off my level of the cave down into a pit, landing on his feet, ready to fight. It was as if the enemy had Jedi powers, the flip was so perfect. Was this cool? You bet it was! It was dynamite! But, it wasn't immersive in the way of the type of realism I was going for. I wanted more realistic fights--not super-fantastic ones.

I had heard that Skycaptain (a master modder, he is) had made a few changes to DR that I may like (and I understand version 6 is right around the corner). So, what the heck, I decided to give old Skycaptain another try with this mod.

I'll let you try the mod and decide for yourself. I'm stil testing it. But, to my surprise, I did find the mod much toned down from the super-fantasic-jedi fights I'd seen before.

I set the critical effect down to 1%. That way, when the heartbeat starts beating in my ears, and my pictures goes to slow motion, I know the head bash I just pulled off with my mace is both unexpected and exciting at the same time. It's a rare event. I like that the mod is customizable, that way.

Another thing that you can do with the mod is duck a blow from your enemy. The NPCs will do the same. I'll rare up with a power blow only to find my effort wasted. The NPC has ducked out under my swing.

That's pretty cool.

I found a shield bash combo, too. I bash the enemy, then kick him with my leg to knock him back. And, while the enemy is staggered, I follow up with a powerblow. Many times, this is a fatal move I have in my arsenal.

Needless to say, I'm pretty darn interested in what Skycaptain has up his sleeve for DR 6.



Now, you have the elements that led up to the "moment" I experienced in the game. So many times, there's a synergy that happens among mods--delivering surprising results.

I'm a role player. So, when the Count let me know that his daughter was missing, I took it personally. The count has made me a Knight-Errant, and I was now honor-bound to find the princess.

I haven't finished the entire quest yet--I'm only telling you about a cool moment I had.







I trudged off on my bright new stallion to find the old Layawiin Keep. When I got there, I found some dead Black Bow bandits and a dead Wyvern (more mod synergy--this time with MMM).

Cautiously, I approached the Keep. But, when I saw three bandits still alive, something in me snapped. I went berserk. I went crazy. I'm a Nord, and that type of thing is in my blood, but this is beyond any frenzy I've ever experienced.

I entered the castle, alone, and I turned it into a blood bath.

I don't know how I survived. There were too many of them. I should be dead.

But, my martial skill and my Nordish luck saw me through.

I was a whirlwind of death. I was a reaver. A slayer.

I was there to find the princess, and anyone who got in my way would die.

And they did.





I did't know what the princess looked like, but I found a captive--a female--dead, on a table. Forks around her.

My rage exploded. I went blind. Down the hall, I heard voices, so, down the hall I tread, my mace a dripping stick of gore.

I found a man of a race I'd never seen before. He was half Orc and half Troll. As we clashed, I saw that he had inherited some powers of the beast. He was the best fighter I'd ever come up against, and his wounds seemed to heal right in front of my eyes--automatically!

As we fought, we moved. I was able to dispatch his conversation partner early in the fight, but I could tell that this half Orc/half Troll was going to take all of my ability to defeat. He dodged my power attacks and always seemed to return more to me than I could give. He was a hellion, but I had no time to ponder what manner of foul deed had given birth to this master martial warrior.

Blow after blow he landed on me, glancing off my shield, glancing off my armor. I knew that it wouldn't be long before he would find the mark he sought--the protected area between my armored plates.

We stumbled down steps, fighting. I had no time to gather a bearing. When I saw a barred portal, though, I knew we had fought out way into the keep's dungeon.

The half Orc pounded me the whole way. I kept retreating from his blows, always losing ground, fearful that death would keep me from taking another defensive step. I was the slayer that had murdered the entire squadron of Black Bow Bandits on the upper level single handed, but in this fight, I was the defender. Try as I might, I could not gain the advantage. The half Orc was just too strong.

He was just too good.

Behind me, a dead end.

In front of me, the daemon-spawn half Orc.

There was no where to go.

I was fading, fading in the fight.

I had become desperate. Fearful...

A second glance behind me stole a look at the end of the corridor. Jutting up from the floor were spikes as high as my thighs. Impaled upon them, another captive, tortured, who had been lowered from a wood beam with rope and pully set in the ceiling.

Seeing those sightless eyes on that poor captive galvanized me.

I would not be another victim.

My shield jerked up, blocking the half Orc's relentless blows. I pivoted in a semi-circle, trying to angle the Orc's back towards the end of the corridor.

I swung, as hard as I could. The Orc ducked. He was wily, that one. Quick. Born for the battlefield.

But, as he stood again, I used my shield to bash him. He staggered back.

Then, I raised my leg and thrust out, kicking him as hard as I could.

He fell backwards...

...impaled on the spikes.

As I stood there, my heart beating in my ears, my lungs about to burst, I managed what spittle I could and spat it on the half Orc.

I, Ryse, Highlander Nord, had won the day.

Anybody else I run into would do well to pray to their gods that the captive I saw on the table was not the princess I seek.







What a moment!

That half Orc was kicking my [censored], bad! In real life, I'm not sure I could have defeated him. He was tough!

But, during the fight, I saw an opportunity--and opportunity provided by the synergy of two mods--and I tried it. And, it worked!

I cannot tell you how awesome I felt, thinking that my toon was going to be killed--and that I'd have to reload and figure a new way to kill this dude.

The thought came to me during the fight. And, it worked! IT WORKED! It made it so...friggin'...cool.

You can't script moments like that. Sometimes, they just happen.

In this sense, the game became more than it is.

And, it was enabled to do that--because of the synergy found between two mods.







That type of thing is what this series of threads is all about. Delte's Thread is about stories, new mods, cool moments...fun. The fun you have with the game.

Immersion. Realism. Escapism.

Below, you will find links to the previous Delte's Threads that are still on the server. As old threads are wiped away, DuggeDank has made sure that they are not lost by creating and maintaining the http://delteslist.googlepages.com/

So, step on in. Grab a pint. See some friends.

And, enjoy your stay on Delte's Thread.







http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=943099

http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=953030

http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=983734



Posted by: Delte Oct 11 2009, 05:17 AM

...DELTE'S THREAD OF IMMERSION MODS...



This thread is meant as a place for realism lovers to stop in from their journey, shake off the road dust, put their feet up, share an ale, and discuss their favorite realism mods. thumbsup.gif Please, feel free to discuss any mod you enjoy as an immersionist. But, if you post about a suggested mod, please provide a link! That little extra effort will go a long way to making this thread useful to others looking to make their game more immersive.



Among these pages, you will find DELTE's LIST. This is a growing collection of the specific realism mods I use in my own game. Each of these mods has been thoroughly play-tested, not only for bugs, but for compatibility with the other mods on the list. Unlike other mod recommendation lists, what you will find on Delte's List is my best recommendation for a mod of a particular type. You will not see recommendations for multiple mods that perform the same function. The mods that make it to Delte's List are the creme of the crop.

That said, I will also say that a man's mod list is personal. Ask ten different people about their top ten mods, and you'll get ten lists all describing different mods with a little overlap. You may agree or disagree with what I've picked as the "very best mod" of a particular type. Never lose sight of the fact that you are playing YOUR game. Customize YOUR game to YOUR tastes. But, also know that each mod on Delte's List is a mod that has been play-tested for its fullest potential.

Delte's List is still growing. It takes time to fully test mods. As I reach a decision on a mod, I will update the list. Check back from time to time. Not only will you see new additions to Delte's List, but you'll also find many excellent recommendations by this thread's readers.







...STEP ONE - BASIC GAME INSTALLATION...




STEPS TO INSTALL THE BASICS:

1. Install Oblivion.
2. Install all nine of the Official Plug-ins.
3. Install Shivering Isles.
4. Install The Official Patch.
5. Install the Unofficial Oblivion Patch.
6. Install the Unofficial Official Mods Patch.
7. Install the Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.



PATCHES! Besides the official Oblivion Patch provided by Bethesda, uber-modders Quarn and Kivan bring you three extremely useful unofficial patches to update your game. All Oblivion players should use their http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=5296. If you use any of the Official Bethesda Plug-Ins, then you'll also want to use their http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=9969. And, if you have the Shivering Isles expansion, you'll want to update it using the http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=10739.















...STEP TWO - BASIC MOD INSTALLATION...




STEPS TO INSTALL THE BASIC MODS:

8. Install http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2097.
9. Install Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul.
10. Install Martigen's Monster Mod.
11. Install http://obse.silverlock.org/.
12. Install No Sneak Eye.
13. Insall Plugin Refurbished.
14. Install Immersive Interface.
15. Install Denock Arrow.



http://devnull.sweetdanger.net/OOO/ This should be the starting point for any realism player. OOO does so much to tilt your game towards realism that I'd have to take pages and pages to explain it all. Besides, much of the fun of OOO is just discovering it by yourself. Once you load it, you won't see much of a change at first. But, then, you'll notice things...was that always like that...or is it part of OOO? "I don't know," you'll say to yourself, "but it's cool!" This mod won the http://goty.gamespy.com/2006/pc/index15.html award in 2006, and to quote that review: " Playing Oblivion before and after installing OOO is a night-and-day experience." I completely agree. I was so tired of advancing a couple of levels, then looking around at the bandits, and all of the bandits are magically wearing ebony and daedric armor. Where were these guys when I was 3rd level? Well, OOO changes all that. OOO makes for a more immersive, realistic world.

http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=OblivionMods.Detail&id=4226 In my view, MMM is the necessary companion to OOO. Where OOO makes for a more realistic, immersive world, MMM makes that world even more real by adding variety. And, isn't variety the spice of life? Note that MMM comes with several optional addons. See my load order below for the exact ones I use in my game (But, be sure to create YOUR game and not MY game. Read the MMM ReadMe and decide for yourself what you like best!).







http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=9730 Tired of the sneak eye glowing bright when an NPC has spotted you? It's an immersion breaker, right? Always seemed like a cheat? Well, get rid of that sucker! There are no guarrantees in sneaking. You don't know if anybody is paying attention to you or not. The sneak eye in the game is just another of the hand-holding measures (like Fast Travel from any point and the GPS Quest Arrow) that Bethesda has included for impatient gamers. We realism players do not need crutches like that, do we? Heck no! We don't! That's where this simple little mod comes in. Just drop it into your game, and it will turn the textures on your sneak eye invisible. It's really still there. You just can't see it. Voila. No more sneak hand holding! This is a "must" for true immersionists.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11474 This is a "must" for immersionists who own the official Bethesda plugins. And, kudos to Strategy Master for another masterful mod. What this mod does is make you chance upon the information about the official Bethesda plugins in an organic way. Gone are the jarring quests that automatically pop up telling you that you have an inheritance from a long lost relative (how lame is that?) when you load the plugins. Now, with this mod, you will find out about the different plugins in the course of your adventures. You'll find them like you do normal quests. MY BEST ADVICE with mods like this is to REFRAIN FROM READING THE SECTION IN THE README where you are told how to obtain the quests. I mean, if you're going to do that, then why are you using this mod in the first place? Why not just go with the lame-o Bethesda long-lost-relative routine and have access to the plugin right from the get-go? Immersionists want to game and find things like this through the game. They want to delight in discovery. So, do yourself a big favor, and just load the plugins before forgetting about them. Just forget they're in your game. When you happen upon something in-the-game that will lead you to the plugin, you'll enjoy it ten times more. Now, this mod is best used with a new game, but a new game is not necessary to use the mod. Instructions are provided in the readme for loading this this mod during a current game. That's the way I did it (and I'm so glad I now have this mod). The mod is also modular. You only need to load the esps that are appropriate to the official plugins that you own.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4109 II is an excellent, extremely easy to use, mod that will remove the clutter from your HUD, making your actual view of the game world that much more immersive. Take a look at this http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc84/KodaChrome_Me/ScreenShot15-2.jpg from my game. Where are all the HUD elements? Well, only the necessary ones remain. If you look hard, you'll see that the crosshair is still there, but subdued. Down at the bottom left of the screen, my current selected weapon is pictured. Below it is a ribbon that tells me, at a glance, the weapon's condition. Next to it is my current selected spell. And, that's it. That's all I need. The rest of the HUD has been stripped bare of anything that would interfere with my immersive play. I've got the compass disabled (You can choose not to disable the compass), but I can still view it if I open my inventory screen--which simulates the character having to pull a compass from his pocket in order to view it. The ribbons showing Health, Fatigue, and Magicka only appear if they drop significantly. Otherwise, you're not bothered with them for slight drops that are rapidly replenished. Once you've installed the Immersive Interface, you can re-adjust your setting simply by running the mod again (just double click on the .exe file in your Oblivion folder). The mod is highly customizable. Once you run the installer, you're asked a series of questions: Where do you want your screen elements to appear? Do you want to see your Health/Fatigue/Magicka ribbons all the time or only when they drop significantly? Do you want muted screen elements or bright text? You get the idea. What a brilliant mod! It's a "must" for every immersion player.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=9333 Like many mods listed in Delte's List, this is one of those that you just want to ask yourself, "Why wasn't this included in the vanilla game?" As it stands in vanilla Oblivion, if you nock an arrow with your bow, you have to fire the sucker. Well, Scruggs has made a simple yet brilliant (and in my opinion, necessary) mod that allows you to simply ease the string back on your bow and slip the arrow back into your quiver. No more firing straight into the ground when you decide not to let loose! All you have to do now is hit your "grab" key while an arrow is nocked. Touch the grab key, and your arrow will go back into your quiver. The mod even provides animation! You'll see your arms quickly move to replace the arrow when you denock!















...STEP THREE - YOU'RE THERE! PLAY THE GAME!...




If you've made it this far, you're ready to start a character and begin playing the best fantasy role playing game ever created. Are we done with adding mods? Nope. But, other mods can be added as you play.

You may want to do as I do. I play and I try new mods (and, when I find one I can't live without, I update this list). Don't spend more time searching for mods than playing the game. You've got several HUNDRED hours of gaming ahead of you (if you play as I do, not rushing from one quest to the next, but, instead, just enjoying the experience of living in Cyrodiil). So, get to playing and experiencing life in another world!

You may want to use http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/?p=modding_data/ngen to create a name for your character that fits his race.







OBLIVION.INI

Also, you may want to become familiar with the Oblivion.ini file. This is your game's initiation file. It's the file that Oblivion looks at in order to set itself when loading. Many games will store the ini in the game's main directory, but Oblivion stores it in a different location by default. There are many tweaks that can be made to your game by adjusting settings in the ini file. You can find out about several of them by perusing the http://www.tweakguides.com/Oblivion_1.html. I will be making reference to some tweaks you should consider making (as an immersionist) in this chapter of Delte's List. By default, your ini file is located in the My Documents/My Games/Oblivion folder.

On of the ini adjustments I wholeheartedly recommend is to Disable Your MUSIC! You're bee-boppin' around Cyrodiil, listening to the fantastic (I love it) Oblivion soundtrack, when, abruptly, the music changes. It's battle music! Immediately, you start to look for the enemy. Where is he? Yeah...see, a real immersionist despises this. There should be no warning! You should have no heads-up-beacon that alerts you that danger is near and conflict is imminent. The immersionist will disable his music in his game's ini file. To do this, simply open your ini and look for this line: bMusicEnabled=1. Simply change the value so that it reads like this: bMusicEnabled=0. Voila, you no longer have music enabled in your game, but you WILL continue to hear atmospheric sounds. In fact, it will be a whole new game for you as you hear the sounds of nature and battle that you've never paid attention to before. It will be, guarranteed, much more immersive for you. As a bonus, your game will run a little smoother with the music disabled. System resources are no longer required to play music (not many people realize that a computer sometimes struggles more with playing sounds than it does displaying some graphics...both operations require large amounts of system resources). Just turning the music volume down to zero will not provide this benefit. The music is still playing, using system resources. You just can't hear it. In order to get the performance bump (which will be noticable or not noticable, depending on your specific machine), you'll have to disable music in the ini, and I recommend it (more for the immersion bump than the performance bump).

You may also want to have Longer Lasting BLOOD! By default, blood appears in your game for 10 seconds before completely fading away. The next time you hit somebody (or something) in the game, stop and look at the blood. You can literally see it fading away before your eyes. What's it doing? Evaporating? The immersionist wants to change this, and he can do so, easily, by simply changing a value in the ini file. Open your ini and search for fDecalLifetime=10. This setting controls how long blood will appear in your game. The "10" setting means that blood will remain for 10 seconds. In order to change the lifetime of blood appearing in your game, simply change the value. If you want blood to remain for 5 minutes (a good choice), then change the setting to read: fDecalLifetime=300. The "300" value is 300 seconds, or 5 minutes. The http://www.tweakguides.com/Oblivion_1.html recommends a time value of 1200 (20 minutes). I think this is a bit long, which is why I recommend 5 minutes. Changing the time blood will appear in your game does not come without its cost. Blood decals are graphics, and multiple long lasting decals can, indeed, provide some lag for your game. You may want to find a value that suits your taste as an immersionist and fits within the capabilities of your rig. Now, Oblivion has this obnoxious little problem where, after you've changed the value of your decals, that value will remain unless you open your in-game graphics menu. If you open your video menu, then Oblivion automatically resets decal value to its default setting of 10. What you will want to do, after you've found the optimized blood setting AND optimized graphical settings, is to open the console, while you're playing the game, and type: saveini. This will save all of your settings in your ini file. If you open your video menu while in the game, Oblivion will still reset the decals to 10 seconds, but the next time you launch the game, you'll have your preferred settings restored. Without the console step, your decals will revert to the 10 setting.

Or, you may want to take a Screenshot. In order to do this, you'll have to enable the feature in your game's ini file. Do a search for: bAllowScreenShot=0. Then, once you've found it, simply change the value so that it reads: bAllowScreenShot=1. Once that's accomplished, you're ready to take screenshots, and, in order to do so, simply press the Prt Scr button that rests in the top row, right hand side of your keyboard. You will get a notification at the top of your screen once the shot is taken, and a picture file will be saved to your main Oblivion folder.

These are all just examples of the game enhancements you can make by working with the game's ini file. LIGHTS! Visible Farther Away! It's a subtle tweak that will make your game more immersive, especially if you are running mods that make night time nights realisticly dark. Search your ini for: fLightLOD2=. Try a value of 4000. This will greatly increase the range at which torches, campfires, lanterns and the like can be spotted. As in real life, light will travel a long, long distance. Be careful not to up this setting too much over 4000 (and you may even want to decrease it). If you start seeing strange colored blotches in the atmosphere or wierd colored reflections in the water, you're viewing indications that you've upped this setting too far. Knock it down by 200 or 500 notches, and see how that works for you.







CONSOLE

If you need to access the game's CONSOLE I'm sure you already know how to do this, but in an effort to make Delte's List complete, I'll take you through the quick step of opening your game's command console. While in-game, hit the tilde key. The tilde key is the "~" squiggly line to the left of the number 1 at the top left of your keyboard. Once you hit that, your game will pause and the console will open. Type your command, press "enter", then close the menu. You're done. There are several console commands discussed in the http://www.tweakguides.com/Oblivion_1.html. Many mods have menus and settings that can be controled via the console. It's a simple operation to get to know. NOTE TO VISTA USERS: Some Vista users have reported trouble with opening the game's console. To this, Skycaptain has responded with an aid. Download his http://www.elricm.com/nuke/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=Downloads&file=index&req=viewdownloaddetails&lid=4087, and you, too, will be able effect Oblivion game console commands.

For example, with the console, you may want to NAME YOUR HORSE! When you get a horse, you'll want to name it, eh? Don't cha? Well, there's a console command that will allow you to change the names of things in the game. I use it personalize the names of my horses. For example, I'm still riding old Prior Maborel's nag. She's been a good mount. Old and slow, but Pugg (my character) has become attached to her. He calls her "Old Paint". It's not amazingly creative, but that's Pugg. Being an orphan, he doesn't know his real name (or even if he has one) either. Anyway, in order to change the name of your horse, simply open the console, use the mouse to select the horse (make sure it's name appears at the top of the screen to ensure you've selected it properly), then type: SetActorFullName "Old Paint". Once you close the console, your horse will now read as "Old Paint" when you place your pointer on it. (You, of course, should name your horse whatever you want. You might want to be a little more creative than "Old Paint".) Make sure you save before going through this process in case you make a mistake.

BURY YOUR DEAD! Ever have an NPC die and his body lie in the city streets for days and days? Kind of immersion-breaking, isn't it? One reader of Delte's Thread called it "being crashed after a drunken beach party." I mean, why doesn't the city watch take these bodies away? Are they trying to attract plague? Well, you can help them out (and also keep your immersion in check). Go over to the body. Open the console. Use the mouse to click on the body (make sure the name of the body is shown at the top of your screen to ensure you've selected the right object), and then type: Disable. Boom, the body disappears. Is this super immersive? No. But, it does lend itself to a more immersive experience the next time you happen this way and find the body is no longer littering the road.

FINDERS KEEPERS! Another thing that bothers me in the game is that, after you successfully steal something, it always remains marked as stolen. You can't sell it, unless you're in the Thieves Guild (or have a mod that tweaks the game), and it will be confiscated if you are apprehended by the Legion. Well, the console command you need to solve this problem is: SetOwnership. Let's say you have a pair of gauntlets you stole. If you want to make them yours, take them out of your inventory by dropping them on the ground, open your console, select them, then type the command and hit enter. Viola, you own the gauntlets. BE WARNED, THOUGH! HAVE SOME RESTRAINT. Like most of the console commands, they can be abused and used as cheats. There's nothing stopping you from stealing until your heart is content, then marking everything as yours, then selling it for the coin without having to join the theives guild and using a fence. Personally, I wouldn't play that way. But, if I, say, stole the gauntlets above, and were intent on using them, I just may use the command. Or, you can not use it and risk the item being identified the next time the Legion catches you up to no good. The reason I list it here, though, is that it's immersive to have something for a long time and then sell it later. Whomever you sold it to won't know those old gauntlets are stolen. Not unless they are unique in some way. So, use your best roleplaying judgement when using this command--and use the command sparingly. Otherwise, you're just cheating yourself.







TIMESCALE

If you're going to use Sleeping or Eating realism mods, I suggest you adjust your game's timescale. What is "timescale"? It's the rate at which time passes in your game. The default timescale setting in Oblivion is 30. That means that one real minute passing equals 30 minutes in the game.

If you use these realism mods on the vanilla timescale setting, you're going to be eating and needing to sleep all the time. It will become "no fun" quickly. What you need to do is slow down the time in your game. Many Oblivion players do this anyway, without using realism mods. It just makes for a better, more enjoyable game. If you do business with two merchants, a whole gameday hasn't passed (as it will in vanilla Oblivion). Francesco's mod, even, comes with an optional plugin that allows you to adjust your game's timescale.

Most gamers who adjust the timescale in their games will adjust it to a timescale of 10 to 15. A timescale of 12 is not uncommon at all. A timescale of 10, for example, means the game will run two thirds slower than vanilla Oblivion. A timescale of 15 means that the game will run half as fast as vanilla.

How do you adjust timescale? It's a simple console command. Just open the console and type: set timescale to 10. Change the value to any timescale setting you desire. If you want to play in real-time mode, then use the command: set timescale to 1. Your game will then proceed at a pace equal to real time. One real minute will equal one minute in the game. (You could actually set your real clock by it.) If, for any reason, you wish to go back to vanilla timescale, then just type: set timescale to 30. Voila. You're back at default time. As I mention above, many Oblivion players, whether they use realism mods or not, choose a timescale of 10, 12, or 15. When I run sleeping and eating mods, I use a timescale of 12 in my game. That way, 12 hours in the game is 60 minutes of real time, so, there will be a game-playing hour of daylight and a game-playing hour of darkness. Every two real hours is a game day.

Currently, though, I am running no sleeping or eating mods. Therefore, I've left my game's timescale at the default of 30.

Timescale can also be used as a more immersive device when your character is waiting in the game. When you use the wait button, the game is acutally paused, and time in the game is adjusted a number of hours (that you decide upon using the wait menu). What happens, mechanically, is that the character is just transported in time from one moment to the next. If, while playing, you wish to wait, but you want to wait and still allow the game world around to you live, then just use the timescale console command. If you're waiting to follow an NPC, for example, who hasn't left his house one fine morning, get to your vantage point early, and then adjust timescale to speed up game time. You may want to set your timescale to 60 (double vanilla) or higher. If you want a good laugh, adjust timescale to a really high number and watch the day pass as if you were watching time-lapse photography. Encounters will still happen. NPCs will adjust their schedules to the new timescale (give them time for their AI to adjust). The sun will travel faster in the sky. Weather will change rapidly. Once you're done waiting (as when the NPC you were waiting for leaves his house), simply change your timescale back down to its normal level and continue the game. If you've forgotten where you last set timescale, then open the console and type: show timescale.







LOAD ORDER

To help you ensure everything runs correctly, I'm posting my current load order here, and, I'll update as I update the list.

Oblivion.esm
Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm
Mart's Monster Mod.esm
Mart's Monster Mod for OOO.esm
Enhanced Daedric Invasion.esm
Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp
DLCShiveringIsles.esp
Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp
SM Plugin Refurbish - SI.esp
Tamriel VWD v0.5.esp
DLCHorseArmor.esp
DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp
SM Plugin Refurbish - HorseArmor.esp
DLCOrrery.esp
DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp
SM Plugin Refurbish - Orrery.esp
DLCVileLair.esp
DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp
SM Plugin Refurbish - VileLair.esp
DLCMehrunesRazor.esp
DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp
SM Plugin Refurbish - MehrunesRazor.esp
NV Imperial Guard Horse Armour.esp
DLCThievesDen.esp
DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp
SM Plugin Refurbish - ThievesDen.esp
cyrodiil transportation network wz.esp
Distant Chapel Bells.esp
Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp
Mart's Monster Mod for OOO.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Additional Enemy NPC Vars.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Gems & Gem Dust.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Safer Roads.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Spawn Rates - Reduced Reduced.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Vindasel.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Foxes.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Extra Wounding.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Less Bone Loot.esp
Kragenir's Death Quest.esp
KDQ - Rural Line Additions.esp
LetThePeopleDrink.esp
KragenirsDeathQuest-LetThePeopleDrink patch.esp
JADImperialApartments01Temple.esp
JADImperialApartments02Temple.esp
JADImperialApartments03Temple.esp
Jagnot- Imperial City Library V1.3.esp
Imperial City Waterfront Tunnel Entrance v2.0.esp
DLCBattlehornCastle.esp
DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp
SM Plugin Refurbish - Battlehorn.esp
BattlehornCastleEnhanced.esp
Reznod_Mannequin.esp
DLCFrostcrag.esp
DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp
SM Plugin Refurbish - Frostcrag.esp
Knights.esp
Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp
SM Plugin Refurbish - Knights.esp
Mart's Monster Mod for OOO - Knights .esp
Mart's Monster Mod - City Defences.esp
DLCSpellTomes.esp
DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp
Travelers Inns.esp
Harvest [Flora].esp
Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp
Harvest [Flora] - DLCVileLair.esp
Harvest [Flora] - DLCFrostcrag.esp
Living Economy.esp
Living Economy - Items.esp
Cutthroat Merchants.esp
Enhanced Daedric Invasion.esp
MM_EnemyHPBar.esp
MRP - Loading area.esp
NPCs Alive - Orges.esp
NPCs Alive - Imperial Legion Foresters.esp
NPCs Alive - Bandits.esp
NPCs Alive - Goblins.esp
NPCs Alive - Faregyll Inn.esp
NPCs Alive - Imps.esp
kuerteeWanderingEncounters.esp
Creatures Alive v1.3.esp
Crowded Roads.esp
Immersive Travelers.esp
AyleidArrows.esp
GM's Archery Rebalance.esp
Denock Arrows.esp
mighty_bows_damage_bonus.esp
mighty_bows_sneak_dmg_bonus.esp
immersive_caves_auto.esp
Drop Lit Torches Weight.esp
Dark Dungeons.esp
Dark Dungeons - SI.esp
hackdirtabyss.esp
Kragenirs_WhiteStallion_Compat.esp
Dungeon Actors Have Torches 1.6 DT.esp
Exterior Actors Have Torches 1.3 DT.esp
[GFX]_Initial_Glow-all.esp
Visually Enchanted Frost 1.esp
Visually Enchanted Shock 1.esp
less-food-OB.esp
less-food-SI.esp
Q - More and Moldy Ingredients v1.1.esp
DS Less Predictable Respawn.esp
NaturalHabitat.esp
NaturalWater.esp
NaturalVegetation.esp
NaturalWeather.esp
















...ADDITONAL MODS TO CONSIDER FOR YOUR GAME...




As you download mods, you'll find this tool quite handy: http://www.7-zip.org/ is a fantastic way to unzip your mods after download. It supports multiple formats. Highly recommended.

In this section, I will throw at you various mods that I think worthy of mention. They're the mods that have impressed me. And, as I mention way, way above, all of these mods have been tested to work together. You can see them in my load order.

Do you have to use each of these mods? Heck no. It's YOUR game, remember? Pick and choose what you like. Customize YOUR game to YOUR tastes. What you see here are MY tastes. Maybe we have similar tastes? If so, great! Copy it all. That's why I took the trouble to write up this long document. But, if you want to change something, or use a different mod--believe me--no "mod police" will come to you and make you use what I pick here.

In my opinion, though, what you see here are some of the best mods ever created for Oblivion.







http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13952 This is one of those that you should know little about. Just load it and forget about it. Your experience will be more suprising that way.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=23484 and http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2902 I wanted some tough, deadly arrows. I wanted to fear NPCs with bows. So, I created a synergy between two mods. Note in the load order above how I have the loaded. Try these two out, and I can promise you that bows won't be anything to ignore, especially at low level.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4520 Now, this isn't a perfect mod, but it's close. In my opinion, I think it can be improved by showing the travel prices to the prospective traveler BEFORE the trip is made. And, I think the silent (no voice acting) subtitles could be enhanced with the generic NPC dialogue (a skilled modder could make the mod seem as if it did have voice acting eventhough the default game sound files were being used). I, personally, never fast travel. I find it non-immersive. But, this mod is a good alternative for those who want to fast travel but do it immersively.







http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8214 is another simple immersion mod. All it does is add more bodies and debris to the Kvatch quest, giving you the impression that the people of that town really went through hell.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8802 They're dark! This mod is updated for SI. And, there is a neat little bonus called Burning Kvatch that shows smoke from the fires of Kvatch OUTSIDE the walls of the city (there is no smoke seen from a distance in the vanilla game. Once the Kvatch quest is completed, the smoke will burn for a few more days, maybe a week or two, then slowly die off. It's a neat little immersion mod.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=12993 I love these little immersion mods. They're just little teaks, but they go so far to making it seem like you're exploring a real world.







http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=5251 I live this little mod. It's a real gem. Make sure you load it late, after OOO and MMM. What it does is add additional behaviours to the critters of Cyrodiil. OOO already does this, but something about Creatures Alive just makes the world come, well, yeah...ALIVE! You won't notice a lot. But, it's enough...just enough...to make your gaming experience seem that much more real.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4805 This mod will lend to the illusion that Cyrodiil is a living, breathing place. It puts a few travelers and merchants on the roads, bringing the reality of messengers being sent to and fro; merchants bringing wares to fill up stock on other cities; bank records being transferred from one of the bank's locations to the next. This is the best version of CR that has yet been developed. Earlier versions placed too many travellers on the roads. It would lag a game down. And, too often, one would come across another dead merchant that some beastie or bandit had killed. This version is much improved over the others. You'll see some travellers on the roads, but not all the time. Sometimes, you'll see one. Sometimes, you'll see a group. Sometimes, the travellers will run, but most of the time, they'll walk. Every once in a while, you'll see one on horseback. The best part about this mod is that it's not just the guards, the bandits, and you out on the roads anymore. Other people use the roads, too! When you play the Anvil Mages Guild quest that focuses on merchants traveling the roads, this mod will keep you from thinking, "What merchants are they talking about? I haven't seen any merchants."

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11169 and http://%5burl="http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11169 Two mods that, again, make for a better immersive experience. These mods give NPCs a chance to carry torches when it is dark.







http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=9858 I don't use all of this mod--just part of it. EDI, unfortunately, was never finished. I've got most settings turned to their minimum, and I don't allow the daedra to attack the towns (because too many NPCs get killed that way). What I like the mod for, though, is to provide troops that run around Cyrodiil attacking the things coming through the gates. I've got those settings set fairly high because I figure the Counts of Cyrodiil would take these gates seriously and send troops. You'll see them inside the gates, too, on the plane of Oblivion. That way, you're not the only soul out there trying to close these things down. There are several troops (Imperials, County soldiers, partisans, Mages and Fighters Guild volunteers, Adventurers) in the areas of the gates. It's nothing to see them march down a road or collect in a town, either. In this sense, EDI is a very immersive mod (but I'm not quite using it as it was intended). My Settings for this mod: I set the Daedric Warparties to zero or their lowest setting. I set the Allies to 25% with the widest possible range (usually 1-9).

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22410 This is a utility mod, and it's brilliant. It ensures that Oblivion shuts down promptly (a known bug of the game, especially a modded game).

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4666 This excellent mod will remove all those wooden doors you see providing entrances to the various caves and mines that dot the landscape of Cyrodiil. Now, you will see pitch black dark cave entrances--simple dark holes in the rock. There are two versions of the mod. One makes the door texture transparent, so that you can't see it. It's still there, though, and when you approach a cave, you activate it like you would if you could see the door. I don't use that version. What I like is the more immersive automatic version. As you approach the cave entrance (try to stay to your right), when you get close enough, you'll automatically enter the cave as if you had just walked in. No activation required. The same thing happens when you exit (try to stay to your left). Just approach the mouth of the cave and you will automatically exit. I give this mod my highest rating. It's superb.







http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19060 This is a fine mod that adds some traveling merchants to the world. CorePC, the author of the favored Tamriel Travelers, recommended this mod after I admitted that I don't find TT immersive. He was right. I do like this mod much more than TT--simply because it's more realistic. The mod works great with Crowded Roads, too.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4620, http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4650, http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4651. Again, not a ground breaking mod, but simple and does the job. This adds some apartments to the Imprial City. More importantly, it also adds more NPCs to Imperial city that walk around and make the city seem much more cosmopoliton. Add one, or add them all.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3868 I include this mod because it just seems to "fit". The Imperial City is the cultural center of the empire. One would think that mages and scholars from all parts of the empire would travel to this great city just to browse among the pages kept in this fantastic building.







Imperial Guard Horse Armour v. 1 by NeilV I like this mod because it does what it says--it puts horse armor on the Imperial Guard horses (if you have the Official Horse Armor Addon)--but there is a synergy with some of the other mods I'm using (probably OOO) that creates mounted guards without armor. The result is spectacular. The two mods, together, create the illusion that some guards can afford armor, and some can't. Some must be higher rank than others. This, together with OOO's various armors it places on the guards (some shiny, some rusty, some from a different county) really adds to the immersion level of the game. I don't have a link for this one. I've had it a long time. If someone finds the link, please inform me. I'll update this description at that time.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=5138 and http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8490 are another two mods that I use together to find the effect I want. Notice that Saran Wrap type colored film your toon has over him when he's wearing something magical? Initial Glow will remove that. When you draw an enchanted weapon, for example, it will flash for a moment (non-enchanged items don't do this) with magical power, then appear to be a normal weapon. I like that--cool effect. And, you don't have the crappy Saran Wrap-style coloring all over it. Now, add to this some other magical effects provided by the second mod. I'm not that fond of the fire effect (but, Fire #3 isn't bad), but I sure do like the frost smoking off a weapon when it's cold and the crackling energy archs when it delivers electrical damage. See my load order above for how to load these two--because load order is important to get the right effect.







Less Food v. 0.2 by pingveen is a mod specifically made for me. I've encouraged pingveen to upload the mod to TESNexus, but it looks like he never did. What this mod does is make food appear less often. I found the game had too much food. I wanted to be encouraged to eat (when I was using the Eating realism mod) at the many inns around Cyrodiil. I wanted to have to pay for food. As the game stands originally, food is plentiful. The beggars must make a good living just finding food in barrels and boxes. This mod changes all that.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=5065 turns the food you find in the sewers and other unsavory places to spoiled food. Plus, if you're into alchemy, you can make poisons from this spoiled food!

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=23366 Your default respawn in vanilla Oblivion is set to three days. This means the dungeon you just cleared out and the bandit at the bridge you just dispatched will probably be there the next time you enter that area. OOO comes with some alternative respawn rates (check the extras folder), but this mod allows you to set your respawn to whatever span of time you want, in a range. Then, it randomizes the respawn rate between the limits you set so that it's not easy to predict when respawning will occur. Play around with it. I've got mine set to a minimum of 7 hours and a maximum of 700 hours (right at a month). This way, things seem to stay dead but slowly repopulate. Don't forget to consider your timescale setting when playing with these numbers. You can do a long time if your timescale is set to the default of 30. But, if you've got your timescale set to 10, a week is going to seem like a long, long time.







http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=10223 I love this mod. I don't know why. It doesn't do much but make Imperial City look more "imperial". The background to the mod is lore friendly and fits the game like a favorite shoe, and the mod is well done. Note that there is a small quest you'll have to find in order to get the water flowing. As always, I suggest you don't read the ReadMe to find out how to start this quest. Just load the mod and forget about, finding out about the story behind the waterworks organicaly as you game. Let it be another quest you stumble upon. I'm 112 hours into my game so far, and I haven't turned on the water yet. But, also know that you won't find the mod that impressive until you get the water flowing--be warned.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4432 This mod comes packaged with OOO. Make sure you've got the latest version, though. You can check by clicking on this link. Great mod for simulating an actual working economy in the game. See my load order for the options I use.

MM Custom Plugins v. 1.0 by ModMan I can't find the link for this handy bunch of simple mods. From the bunch, I use only one from the bunch, though: the mod that removes the Enemy Health Bar. This same function can be found in other mods.







http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2536 My opinion is that this is still one of the best environment and weather mods ever created. With the HDR option, the nights are black and realistic. If the moons are out, you can see. If not, you may need a lantern or a torch. The rain storms are amazing. Natural Habitat puts birds in the sky and bugs in the air. This, along with Creatures Alive and the enhancements included in OOO makes for a living, breathing world. See my load order for the options I use. By the way, there was a v. 2.1.4 released, but the download is hard to find. It contains some necessary bug fixes. ABO has provided that version of Natural Environments (I suggest you use this updated version) among his http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=12801. It's also in OMOD format, which makes it easy to install if you're using OBMM. Note that I don't use the NE's water mod, but ABO does. Simply uncheck that esp in your OBMM load order if you don't want to use it either.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22282 It must work! I rarely crash! Also, make sure you've got your AutoSave disabled when you Fast Travel or change zones (as in entering a building). There is a known bug that makes the game crash often. Making sure the AutoSave is ticked "off" prevents a lot of these crashes.

Oblivion Graphics Extender I use it. You should probably too.







http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=23208 I can't really tell if this mod is working or not. I don't get a lot of stutter (some when riding my horse), but is that my system or this mod? I dunno. I figure it's not hurting anything. Plus, the mod is still in beta. Future updates may be mandatory.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=21705 I can tell you that this mod absolutely does what it says. I've tested it. It's a mandatory mod. Too bad they stopped work on this one.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=6403 This is one of the better distant view mods. There is no frame rate hit with this one.







http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=5273 You can't trust the chests in the Inns. Put your stuff in them, and your stuff may be stolen! With this mod, you can keep your stuff in the trunks provided in the rooms.

Imperial City Waterfront Tunnel v. 2.0 by Jadraxs, updated by Sjors Boomschors Another great mod for which I've lost the link. This mod adds a the connecting tunnel from the Imperial City Market District down to the harbor and waterfront area. This is a neat tunnel, complete with NPCs, shops, guards, etc. It makes for a more immersive city. The vanilla NPCs in the game use the tunnel, as well, when walking down to and fro the docks.








http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16622 There are some exceptional mods out there, especially the quest mods, that do not include voice acting. The reasons for this are that it's very hard to get great sounding dialogue that rivals that in the game. The right equipment is needed, and a voice actor that can really act is essential. So, many mods just go with the subtitles. Now, the game sometimes presents a small problem in presenting the subtitles--they flash by so fast you can't read them. Sound files with no sound in them have to be used to keep the subtitle on the screen long enough to read it. Many mods don't have these file (that really bloat the size of the mod, too). This is where Universal Silent Voice comes in. It's a mod that you can use to keep your subtitles up on the screen for enough time that you can read them. I installed this, and, all of a sudden, I could read the subtitle dialogue for NPCs from the Cyrodiil Transportation Network, the Enhanced Daedric Invasion, and some other mods I'm testing. Needless to say, I think you should get this mod. No more trying to figure out exactly what the quest is the NPC just told you about. Using this mod, you can read it.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=26219 I've never put a mod on the list before without playing it through. But, this one is impressive with just the little things it does. I reserve the right to take it off the list later, but, for now, it's a good addition to the game. It adds a lot of "life" to the NPCs in the world by giving them a lot more to talk about. Plus, there are a bunch (and, I mean A BUNCH) of small quests you can get involved in. So far, this is a damn intriguing quest mod.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=25449 A long time List reader and participant, Kuertee has come up with a neat little mod that makes NPCs traveling out on the roads possibly (it's not guarranteed) have a destination. You'll see them come into the cities! It's the little things like this that make the game immersive. Great mod.














...THE BASEMENT...




Here, you will find a few mods and notes left over from the original "Delte's List".



http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=6430 is the absolute best bedroll mod I've seen. It's simple, easy to use, and it allows you to either steal a bedroll from a wilderness camp or sleep space in a dungeon or purchase one from a merchant. Excellent mod. And, it's very necessary when you need to grab a few hours of sleep after you're character has been stuck in a deep dark dungeon for two-plus days.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3816 Why do you need a bedroll? Not just to be able to level up quickly, right? It's because this mod will make you sleepy after several hours out there adventuring around. Unlike many other mods of this type, this one allows you to push yourself. You're not forced to sleep everyday. Your character just gets groggy and less effective the longer he goes without sleep. As in real life, you'll be weaker and less effective in combat if you're running on no sleep. The mod temporarily effects your stats. Once you get some sleep, your stats will improve. If you don't have time to sleep very long, then just grab a couple of hours. It will help. It'll get you through until you can capture some more ZZZ's later. This mod works perfectly with the other four mentioned here.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=24649

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=10798 This is an excellent, simple mod that allows you to eat most items from the Oblivion game world. It doesn't take a lot of time, either. There's no messing around with cooking procedures that take zero game-time. When your character gets hungry, simply click on a food item in your inventory. What I like so much about Thingamajig's update of Dominic's mod is that he took out the "Food Units Required" message that would pop up, telling the player exactly how many units of food to eat (although this information is still available, for those who want to know, via the character stat screen). What this mod does is simply tell the player that the character is hungry. The player selects what the character will eat. If it's not enough, a message will pop up telling the player that the character is still hungry. If it is enough, the message will state that the character is full. Also, calories count. So, the more you eat, the longer it will be until you're hungry again. If you eat a couple of carrots and an apple, you'll be hungry again faster than you will if you eat a steak, a potato, lettuce and tomato, with bread and a sweetroll for dessert. And, as a bonus, I've discovered that you can make potions from food that will serve as a meal replacement! That's right! Just fire up your alchemy bench. Select some food...poof! You've got a V8 drink you can take with you on your forays out into the world. Plus, with the fatigue mod, weight will always be an issue for you. Making these drinks will cut down on the weight of the food you carry, not unlike a ration bar! (Vanilla Oblivion sets potion weight at 0.5 pounds. If you're using OOO, you'll see that most of your potions--including these--will be 0.3 pounds, give or take. I've noticed the weight of the potion depends on what foods are used!) RH 1.4 is dependent on MMM (because it includes new foodstuffs from MMM). If you are not an MMM user, Doomguy has made a version of the mod that can be used without the MMM requirement: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13479.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=10925 This is a brilliant mod. The more weight you carry, the less energy you'll have to run...the less energy you'll have to fight. It's scaled, too. So, unlike vanilla Oblivion, where your character is carrying 399 pounds of equipment against his 400 pound limit and not suffering a penalty, but then he can't move because he picked up a 2 pound dagger, this mod applies penalties gradually. It also snowballs. At first, your fatigue hits are un-noticable. But, as you pick up more and more weight, the penalties become bigger and bigger. At the lowest character levels, this fatigue mod is harsh. Players will really have to watch their weight and their exertion. But, just like everything else, as the character levels up, fatigue becomes less and less an issue. By the time the character is past 10th level, he'll be able to sprint for quite a distance, with a fairly heavy load, before he has to stop and catch his breath. This mod will make fatigue potions and fatigue replacing spells very important to you (when was the last time that happened in your game?). You'll find little tricks: like throwing a fatigue spell as you run, wearing a Ring of Feather to lighten your load, riding your horse instead of walking, only running when absolutely necessary, and when you do, you'll sprint for short distances. The best part of this mod? It's the blurred vision and gasping-for-air sounds you'll hear when your character's fatigue is low. If you push yourself too far, you just might collapse!







http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=5156 When I first began to play this mod, I thought to myself, "It's nothing special. Just a new shop with a dude who will give you a couple of thieving quests. It may have been 'something' back when there were few mods for Oblivion, but now, I'm not super-impressed." Oh, how wrong I was. This quest mod is INCREDIBLE! It is so deserving of its place on the list of http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=oblivionmods.HOF. The mod meshes seemlessly with the vanilla game. You'll notice a new shop in the Market District of the Imperial City. After a time, you may get to know the proprietor of that shop, and if he likes you enough, he may tell you about a "job" or two. This mod does not hold you by the hand (as many of the vanilla quests do). The quest markers remain, but they will only point you to the general area of your goal. It's really up to you to think as you play through the quests. Think like a thief. There is hidden content in this mod, as well. You might find some of that content, but I doubt you will find it all (unless you cheat and read the walkthrough that comes with the mod). Do yourself a favor and don't cheat. Just slap this mod into your game and forget about it. Play through it organically, as you would any other vanilla quest. You don't have to do it all at once. In fact, the mod is designed to be played "in parts". You'll do a mission, then go do something else. Once you're back in the Imperial City, you'll visit Derrien (the shop's proprietor), and he may have something new for you. The brilliance of this mod came to me one day when Pugg (my character) was stopping by the Market District with some hot items to unload. It was a bright day. The sun was high in the sky. I went by Derrien's shop, but I found it closed. Closed? How can that be? Is this mod screwed up? Is Derrien's AI out of sync? Shouldn't he be open at noon? Well, Pugg was tired, so he dragged his butt to the Merchant's Inn to get a room (Real Sleep mod), and what did he find? Derrien was having lunch. Brilliant, I tell you. This mod is brilliant. Be sure to get the http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=5391 if you are using an older version of this mod. Derrien will act as a fence for you, even if you don't follow the quests. He's not in the thieves guild. He's an outside operator. I find this quite balanced with the rest of the game as long as you don't add additional fences to the game that are not members of the guild. Derrien should be the only fence in the entire game that is allowed to operate outside of the theives guild. Otherwise, you risk unbalancing your game and making the thieves guild moot. Immersion-wise, the theives guild would not tolerate too many independent fences. But, they tolerate Sneaky Sam, who provides some goodies "you can find at your local store, that's for damn sure." And, it's not a stretch to believe they will tolerate Derrien, if he's the only one. Derrien probably pays them off anyway. My only complaint with this mod is that the second part hasn't been created. At the close of the main quest in this mod (there are several quests included with this mod), a second part is alluded to. Hey, here's an idea. Let's all PM JOG to finish the second part! (Oh, yeah, right...I'm sure he would appreciate that!)

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=10256 If you're going to use Thievery in the Imperial City above, then MAKE SURE you use this mod too. It's the perfect expansion for JOG's mod--so much so that I'd like to see the two mods bundled together. Lynge's mod is simple. It adds access to the roofs of the Imperial City...the "theives highway". It also does a little more than that, but I don't want to spoil it. This mod has its own surprises too. Just trust me when I say, "If you're going to use TinIC, then absolutely use this mod along side it."







LOCKPICKING

I highly recommend using a mod that will drastically change your game. Immersion players playing thieves will adore this mod. It's http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3742, and it is a brilliant addition to the traps and locks and security upgrades implemented with OOO. What this mod will do is place a cover over the tumblers you normally see when picking a lock. It makes you feel your way around a lock, the way a real thief would. Included is ModMan's Lock Difficulty Text Remover which will remove the difficulty text you see when you place your mouse pointer over a chest. Using ModMan's esp, you'll only be able to tell if a chest or door is locked. You won't automatically see the difficulty of the lock. For that, you'll actually have to start picking the lock in order to learn that information. I'm telling you, pulling out a pick and counting the tumblers manually to find the difficulty really adds a lot of immersion to the game. It feels much more like picking a lock!

Using the Blind Lockpicking mod will increase the difficulty of your game without a doubt. But, don't fret. Without giving away any spoilers, there are more than one means already built into Oblivion to make lockpicking easier. So, using the mod will be an immersive hindrance to you for a while. As you game, you'll find easier ways of bypassing locks (and I'm not just talking about increasing your Security skill or using Open Lock spells).

One thing the Blind Lockpicking mod does do, though, is unbalance the game with regard to lockpicks. You'll definitely break loads and loads more lockpicks (especially at lower Security skill levels) than you do in the normal game. Because lockpicks don't grow on trees in the Oblivion game world, you will need another method of obtaining them. I suggest using another brilliant mod called http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=9258. By using this mod, your character will be able to buy a metal file from some vendors. This file can be used to make lockpicks from items found in the game. If your character is not in the Thieves Guild, then any appropriate metal item found in the world can be fashioned into a lockpick (such as metal tongs or a rake). What I like about this process is that it is not automatic. Your character's Armorer and Security skills are used to determine the successful chance. Characters who are members of the Thieves Guild can buy lockpick blanks from fences, making for easy creation of lockpicks (rather than having to cut and fold pieces from a metal plate).

Also included with GP's Lockpicks mod is a nice clear base texture that you can use to remove the wooden base on the lockpicking graphic when you are picking locks. This is simply an aesthetic, but I think the look of the lockpicking graphic, with the clear base, and the cover from the Blind Lockpicking mod, is terrific. You'll find the clear base texture in the Alternate Files folder included with the download (and you'll also find a new, better looking lockpick icon for your inventory, too).

NOTE: I do not recommend the Lockpicks mod if you are not also using the Blind Lockpicking mod. The Lockpicks mod is an immersive way to correct the lockpick imbalance caused by the Blind Lockpicking mod. With the vanilla game, the Lockpicks mod makes available too many lockpicks, leading to munchkinism. Don't be a munchkin gamer. Be an immersionist!







http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13448 With the night-sky and dark dungeon mods, there are times that I cannot see my character's hands and weapons in front of him because my character happens to be in a place that is absolutely light-less. These times require a light source. I've used several different torch mods since I've been modding Oblivion, but I had never found one with the right amount of brilliance. This is where StarX jumped in. He took Frugal's original Drop Lit Torches mod, tweaked the light so that it is bright at its source but rapidly declines as the viewer retreats, then added weight to the item. Being a realism player, I wanted my torches to actually weigh something. The result of StarX's tweaking is the best torch mod I've ever used. It's down right perfect. This mod provides a more brilliant torch, with a wider radius, incorporating weight to the item (and the results of a net search of torches used in Medieval Europe were used to determine the weight), retaining the "dropping" ability of the original mod. Now, OOO includes its own special version of DLT, so if you're using OOO (as I am), just load this mod after OOO, and you shouldn't have any problems.















...DELTE'S LIST WILL CONTINUE TO GROW...



Posted by: FallenWizard Oct 11 2009, 05:27 AM

QUOTE
MMM Spawn Rates Reduced, Reduced and MMM Safer Roads. These two are highly, highly recommended plugins for the realism player. I don't find it realistic at all to stumble into a battle every time I crest a hill. These two plugins go a long way towards making your journeys more realistic. Using the two, you'll sometimes be able to make a trek to another town, on foot, without having a single encounter (although you may see some beasties off the road that may not see you). Then again, sometimes you'll stumble into a goblin war party. It just depends...kinda like real life! If you want to battle miscellaneous creatures every time you hit the roads, then don't use these plugins. If you do want a more realistic world where the roads are still a bit dangerous but not to the point where civilians can't get from one town to the next, then follow my recommendation and use these two plugins.


CorePC said that Spawn Rates Reduced and Safer Roads are not working together because of the leveled list changes.

EDIT: found the post

QUOTE
Correct You can NOT use any of Safer Roads plugin with any of spawn rate plugins. That includes FCOM Safer Roads will not work with fcom spawn rate plugins either. Even with bash it still does not work.

Safer Roads plugin only works with default spawn rate.

The only way to make them work is to merge safer roads feature into spawn rate plugin itself. Which is easy with tes4edit. You just copy load up both safe roads and spawn rate plugin and copy % chance of none from safer roads into same leveledlist that is used in spawn rate plugins. And you have a spawn rate plugin with safe roads.



Posted by: Shield Watcher Oct 11 2009, 05:36 AM

QUOTE (FallenWizard @ Oct 11 2009, 05:27 AM)
CorePC said that Spawn Rates Reduced and Safer Roads are not working together because of the leveled list changes.

EDIT: found the post


Hmmm. didn`t know that. Guess i`ll get rid of Safer roads then. i can`t be doing with all that editing stuff at the moment. Nice to see delte`s thread`s about. I have just about all the realism\immersion Mods and more!


Posted by: Spite Oct 11 2009, 06:22 AM

NM



Posted by: Delte Oct 11 2009, 06:25 AM

QUOTE (Spite @ Oct 11 2009, 12:22 AM)
I think I blinked. Did anybody else see the "moment"?


You had to give me a "moment" to write it. deal.gif






EDIT: RE - The Spawn Rates and Safer Roads

Hmm. Well, that's how I've had it for some 400 hours of gaming now, with two different characters. And, the roads are pretty safe. I wanted to have the ability to walk between towns on the road without getting attacked, and it sure does that. Sometimes I'm attacked. Sometimes not.

So, something is working the way I want it to.

I'm sure the refresh rate has something to do with this, too.


Posted by: Spite Oct 11 2009, 06:26 AM

QUOTE (Delte @ Oct 11 2009, 01:25 AM)
You had to give me a "moment" to write it. deal.gif


I saw after I posted facepalm.gif
It's been a long day smile.gif

EDIT: Just read the "moment" biggrin.gif

Very cool story and well told. It reminded of reading the orginal Conan stories (back when they were good). thumbsup.gif


Posted by: Bodevanlot Oct 11 2009, 08:48 AM

Always been a fan of your threads Delte, good to see you're keeping with them. Might I suggest adding http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1045975&hl=enhanced+economy to the list nearby Living Economy? It's like LE, but with more features, and some bug fixes. Also, thanks for sharing your experience, you are quite the writer! I personally was doubtful when I first installed DR (not usually a fan of over-the-top violence), but it has been one of the essential parts of my load order ever since I began using it.
I also just began using http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=955595&st=0&start=0 (I've used Crowded Roads for a long time, and have always been happy with it, but just for the heck of it I decided to give TT a go too), and so far I am very impressed. It's pretty cool to see actual merchants on the road and in taverns.



Posted by: Shield Watcher Oct 11 2009, 08:49 AM

QUOTE (Delte @ Oct 11 2009, 06:25 AM)
You had to give me a "moment" to write it. deal.gif






EDIT: RE - The Spawn Rates and Safer Roads

Hmm. Well, that's how I've had it for some 400 hours of gaming now, with two different characters. And, the roads are pretty safe. I wanted to have the ability to walk between towns on the road without getting attacked, and it sure does that. Sometimes I'm attacked. Sometimes not.

So, something is working the way I want it to.

I'm sure the refresh rate has something to do with this, too.



Good point. It maybe a placebo effect, but the roads do seem safe. I hardly meet anything on them except wildlife.


Posted by: Delte Oct 11 2009, 04:04 PM

QUOTE (Bodevanlot @ Oct 11 2009, 02:48 AM)
Always been a fan of your threads Delte, good to see you're keeping with them.


thumbsup.gif



QUOTE
Might I suggest adding http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1045975&hl=enhanced+economy to the list nearby Living Economy?


I read over the intro of the mod using your link above, and, frankly, I don't see a lot of difference in that mod and Living Economy.

Can you elaborate on why you think EE is a better choice than LE?





QUOTE
I also just began using http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=955595&st=0&start=0 (I've used Crowded Roads for a long time, and have always been happy with it, but just for the heck of it I decided to give TT a go too), and so far I am very impressed. It's pretty cool to see actual merchants on the road and in taverns.


Yes, I've tested TT. It is a well done mod. CorePC does a fantastic job.

But, this is one mod that I disagree with (making me in the minority, I know). I don't find it immersive at all. I think it makes merchants too easy to find. When I tested it, I was in a cave. I came out of the cave and found a traveling merchant. I just cleaned out the cave and sold all the stuff to the handy merchante that was right outside the cave's mouth.

I don't like how cities can be completely avoided because of TT. Cities are supposed to be centers of commerce. People travel there to attend the market. With TT, the market comes to them.

Another area I don't find the mod immersive is the amount of stuff the merchants carry. I know they have pack animals now (I tested the mod before the pack animals were added), but, still, they're carrying a lot of merchandise. When dealing with a merchant in a store, it's easy to consider that the merchandise is all over the store. But, when on the road, this suspension of disbelief is not possible. Unless the TT merchants now have a vastly scaled down inventory, I find it hard to consider that they have that much stuff on them, even if they do have a handy pack animal.



Posted by: FallenWizard Oct 11 2009, 04:27 PM

QUOTE (Delte @ Oct 11 2009, 05:04 PM)
I read over the intro of the mod using your link above, and, frankly, I don't see a lot of difference in that mod and Living Economy.
Can you elaborate on why you think EE is a better choice than LE?


It is. No 65k bug, you can configure nearly everything, works with mod added merchants etc...


Posted by: Corepc Oct 11 2009, 04:38 PM

On Spawn Rate Plugins and Safer Roads..you can check this yourself in wrye bash..

Load Safer Roads before spawn rate plugins and build your bashed patched. If you then compare them in tes4edit you will see the values in safer roads are not getting pulled correctly into bashed patch and spawn rate plugins are dominate and does not work.

If you load safer roads after spawn rate plugin. Vice Versa, you have safer roads changes, but, your spawn rate plugins no longer work. And it set to MMM default spawn rate.

No matter how I set the load order or set tags in bash (filter) still does not work together.

I will make optionial download that combines Safer Roads and Spawn Rate Plugins into one. That will solve that problem. Will post them later in MMM optionial download threads..

Not going to talk about Travellers has Both me and delte have talked about it before, nothing has changed with them either inventory is still the same.

Delte you should check out http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19060 - which adds traveling merchants has well..More along the line that you are looking for..

Corepc




Posted by: Locksley Oct 11 2009, 04:42 PM

Also like to highlight Kuertee's mods

http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1028563

Most are of the immersive character, I like to point out:
Eat and sleep: works with modded added food; you can set the ini to how heavy a toll no food/sleep will punish you

Inventory is a backpack: there is no reason for you to be able to fight effectively with five swords and two sets of armour on your back!

Clothing matters: Talking to people in full armour is intimidating and not very popular, also wearing clothes that are similar to the one you talk to makes them feel better (like you more) - "we are the same you and I, you can tell me".

And the rest is lovely too twirl.gif



Posted by: Delte Oct 11 2009, 05:43 PM

QUOTE (Corepc @ Oct 11 2009, 10:38 AM)
I will make optionial download that combines Safer Roads and Spawn Rate Plugins into one. That will solve that problem. Will post them later in MMM optionial download threads..


Maybe it's not necessary. One or the other is working. I like my roads the way they are. I don't need them safer or more hazardous.

I wonder which of the two mods is doing the job.... blink.gif



QUOTE
Not going to talk about Travellers has Both me and delte have talked about it before, nothing has changed with them either inventory is still the same.


We have, indeed. It's a beautiful mod, extremely well crafted, by a master mod maker. It just doesn't fit my tastes for immersion.

Again, I am in the extreme minority on this one. Most people love that mod.





QUOTE
Delte you should check out http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19060 - which adds traveling merchants has well..More along the line that you are looking for..


Sounds good. I will! thumbsup.gif









QUOTE (Locksley @ Oct 11 2009, 10:42 AM)
Also like to highlight Kuertee's mods


A lot of his stuff has raised my eyebrow. He's a long time Delte's List reader and participant, too.

He's definitely got several mods that I need to try.



Posted by: Corepc Oct 11 2009, 05:47 PM

QUOTE (Delte @ Oct 11 2009, 11:43 AM)
Maybe it's not necessary. One or the other is working. I like my roads the way they are. I don't need them safer or more hazardous.
I wonder which of the two mods is doing the job.... blink.gif


I like my non safe roads. But will still make them since there are some that want safer roads and spawn rate plugins to work correctly.

Simple to figure out..Either you have safer roads load before or after mmm spawn rate plugin.

If before then you do not have safer roads and spawn rate plugins are dominate.

else if safe roads is loading after spawn rate plugin then you have safer roads with mmm default spawn rate along the roads.


Posted by: Ayleid_people Oct 11 2009, 08:35 PM

QUOTE (Corepc @ Oct 11 2009, 10:38 AM)
Delte you should check out http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19060 - which adds traveling merchants has well..More along the line that you are looking for..
Corepc

I just added it to my FCOM installation, very interesting, balanced with a lot of options. Well suited to characters which have problems getting into town. Example: Evils characters with a lot of bounties on the head.


QUOTE (Locksley @ Oct 11 2009, 10:42 AM)
Also like to highlight Kuertee's mods

http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1028563

I use three of his mods:
- kuerteeCleanUp.esp (because I don't like or use Streamline)
- Combat Timescale x0.5.esp this one give some realism for combat and time spent without changing the whole game time scale.
- kuerteeLootingDeadGuardsIsStealing.esp is good but needs some improvement.

I would suggest "Crowded roads Advanced", tried it but haven't convinced me. A lot of travelers are easy targets (most of them don't even react to attacks) with loot that can unbalance the game.


Posted by: Shield Watcher Oct 11 2009, 10:07 PM

Hmm. Very interesting. Some good points made.

I have personally really found TT a godsend. But let me explain my conditions (if anyone is willing to read).

I don`t Fast Travel ever, no matter how desperate, I have at least two battle fatigue\sleep mods. Even my horse is pretty useless when going uphill, collapsing if too heavy (no saddlebags at the moment). Creatures and Monsters are stronger and tougher. It`s still very hard work getting a kill in any dungeon and I`m at level 8.

I often have to use trickery, sneakery and guile to overcome enemies(and I play a burly warrior with almost no sneak abilities!). When I am not running away and actually manage to slay all my foes I then have a load of really heavy kit. I can barely carry more than a couple of swords and armour before wheezing and collapsing just walking 30 feet from the dungeon. I do have Viconia though she also suffers from the fatigue stuff too and is no extra bag. She is a help, but just that.

Having a Merchant along the road is a life-saver, but even then I can`t find any sometimes and have had to leave some really good stuff behind because neither I or my horse can take such a weight of equipment. Also add the fact that with the new Enhanced Economy Mod these merchants will simply not even pay for some objects, or they pay extremely little (I made the merchants quite harsh). I have to drop or give stuff away often.

I will agree though that TT merchants do have a lot of kit on the road, even with a mule, this is true, but not every merchant will take sell what I want. Neither do they always have healing potions. If you buy all 4, they won`t have any more until the next reset which is in days, often leaving me in dire straits. They hardly heal and really just stem being wounded. I use the Battle fatigue and Injuries Mod too which means each fight can often leave me near death and only potions will stop it and they get used up fast. I also suffer from the effects of lack of sleep.

Cities are still the preferred place to go for me because it`s safe, I can sleep better (Real Sleep Extended) in a proper bed (sleep mod 100% sleep in proper beds as opposed to outside) and I know where I can find merchants I want cos they aren`t wandering about.

Tamriel Travellers could be a `cheat`, but when you have enough realism Mods it is anything but. My only thing with TT would be to reduce the amount of available items and perhaps make them a little rarer. blush.gif

p.s. Oh and by the way, even with all the stuff i`ve found and tried to sell I have only 800 gold. It`s really hard for me to make more than 2000 in any period, Im certainly no millionaire or near it, so I reckon I have it pretty well balanced. I`m always surprised by Viconia because she always seems to have more gold then me! I dunno where she gets it from.



Posted by: Bodevanlot Oct 11 2009, 10:51 PM

QUOTE (Delte @ Oct 11 2009, 08:04 AM)
thumbsup.gif
I read over the intro of the mod using your link above, and, frankly, I don't see a lot of difference in that mod and Living Economy.

Can you elaborate on why you think EE is a better choice than LE?


EE's dynamic barter gold is essentially the same thing as LE, but it fixes some significant bugs, namely the 65k bug. The main reason I installed EE the first time was because I was sick of trading with merchants whose gold would jump all over the place when trading with them, i.e., I sell them a mithril cuirass and their gold increases by 200, then sell them mithril greaves and it jumps down 700 gold. If for nothing else, I would say it's worth replacing LE with EE to eliminate these bugs.
EE also has the option to remove items from the game as you come across them, in an attempt to make getting ridiculously rich less easy. I always found it frustrating that I could go through an oblivion gate and make myself 50,000 septims, while the ordinary Cheydinhal citizen is complaining about a 5 gold fine. In combination with my merchants customized to be even more anal than the cutthroat merchants, I now find making gold much more difficult, which I personally enjoy.
If you don't care for this function, though, it's perfectly optional, EE is quite customizable.

As for TT, I see your points, but I haven't been using the mod for very long, and was only speaking on first impressions. I know that I've already encountered at least four merchants during my travel between the IC and Anvil, Anvil back to Skingrad, and then visiting Faregyl Inn, and I've noticed they've got some interesting and often very expensive loot for sale. In this sense, I suppose it could be unimmersive if you found one dead with thousands of septims on him, but I actually found it reasonable, thinking to myself that these seasoned travelling merchants have been to a variety of exotic places and picked up some rare goods in the process. They've also been pretty well-equipped and seem capable of defending themselves. But again, I've only used it for a couple of days.


Posted by: Corepc Oct 11 2009, 10:56 PM

QUOTE (Shield Watcher @ Oct 11 2009, 04:07 PM)
I have personally really found TT a godsend. But let me explain my conditions (if anyone is willing to read).

SNIP

My only thing with TT would be to reduce the amount of available items and perhaps make them a little rarer. blush.gif


Items use the VendorPlugins. That will reduce their items down to common items nothing more unless you are using another mod that modifying those leveledlist Frans, OOO, etc..

Rarer has in amount you encounter. I know I went overboard with last batch I will admit that. Already have a plan for that and You will have to wait on night time / day time travellers. Which I have been forming in my mind for some time just have to modded it yet.

Corepc



Posted by: Shield Watcher Oct 11 2009, 11:25 PM

QUOTE (Corepc @ Oct 11 2009, 10:56 PM)
Items use the VendorPlugins. That will reduce their items down to common items nothing more unless you are using another mod that modifying those leveledlist Frans, OOO, etc..

Rarer has in amount you encounter. I know I went overboard with last batch I will admit that. Already have a plan for that and You will have to wait on night time / day time travellers. Which I have been forming in my mind for some time just have to modded it yet.

Corepc



I`m glad you understand. smile.gif I`ll keep watch and thanks for the mod.


Posted by: desertor Oct 11 2009, 11:57 PM

Hi all,

Im thinking in install something very similar to Delte list (ooo+mmm, no sneak eye, sleeping, bedrooll, food, fatigue and something more I cant remember). My doubt is compatibility between these mods and Oblivion XP. Can somebody confirm?



Posted by: FallenWizard Oct 12 2009, 12:01 AM

QUOTE (desertor @ Oct 12 2009, 12:57 AM)
Hi all,

Im thinking in install something very similar to Delte list (ooo+mmm, no sneak eye, sleeping, bedrooll, food, fatigue and something more I cant remember). My doubt is compatibility between these mods and Oblivion XP. Can somebody confirm?


Why should they conflict?


Posted by: Delte Oct 12 2009, 03:12 AM

QUOTE (Bodevanlot @ Oct 11 2009, 04:51 PM)
EE's dynamic barter gold is essentially the same thing as LE, but it fixes some significant bugs, namely the 65k bug. The main reason I installed EE the first time was because I was sick of trading with merchants whose gold would jump all over the place when trading with them, i.e., I sell them a mithril cuirass and their gold increases by 200, then sell them mithril greaves and it jumps down 700 gold. If for nothing else, I would say it's worth replacing LE with EE to eliminate these bugs.


Hmm. I've heard about, but not experienced, the 64K bug. Isn't that fixed in the latest edition of LE?

And, I don't have the issues you cite, but I'll keep a closer eye on my trading just to see if they're happening but I'm not notcing.



QUOTE
EE also has the option to remove items from the game as you come across them, in an attempt to make getting ridiculously rich less easy. I always found it frustrating that I could go through an oblivion gate and make myself 50,000 septims, while the ordinary Cheydinhal citizen is complaining about a 5 gold fine.


You must not be a Realistic Fatigue user. With RF, it may be possible to make that much coin, but you can't carry enough to do it. My money is always in check when I use RF. I skip all the heavy stuff and only look for the light loot, like jewelry, gems, and coin. If I'm to carry something heavy, then it had better be worth my time in coin.





One thing I've noticed about LE, though, is that magical items sell for a huge amount of coin. The Tower of the Nine shield, in my game right now, is something like 40,000 septims!

I've got a love/hate relationship with it. comp26.gif


Posted by: Delte Oct 12 2009, 03:18 AM

QUOTE (desertor @ Oct 11 2009, 05:57 PM)
Hi all,

Im thinking in install something very similar to Delte list (ooo+mmm, no sneak eye, sleeping, bedrooll, food, fatigue and something more I cant remember). My doubt is compatibility between these mods and Oblivion XP. Can somebody confirm?


I'm not sure what Oblivion XP is, but if it's a leveling mod, know that OOO comes with several different leveling options.

I use all the mods on the list, and they work seemlessly. In fact, I don't put a mod on the list unless it works well with the other mods already cited.

I'm not using the realism mods right now, waiting on Realistic Fatigue to be updated, but here is my current load order. It may help you.

Oblivion.esm
Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm
Mart's Monster Mod.esm
Mart's Monster Mod for OOO.esm
Enhanced Daedric Invasion.esm
CM Partners.esm
HorseCombatMaster.esm
Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp
DLCShiveringIsles.esp
Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp
SM Plugin Refurbish - SI.esp
Natural_Weather_HDR_with_darker_Nights_by_Max_Tael.esp
Natural_Habitat_by_Max_Tael.esp
aaaBorsBedrolls.esp
Tamriel VWD v0.5.esp
DLCHorseArmor.esp
DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp
SM Plugin Refurbish - HorseArmor.esp
DLCOrrery.esp
DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp
SM Plugin Refurbish - Orrery.esp
DLCVileLair.esp
DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp
SM Plugin Refurbish - VileLair.esp
DLCMehrunesRazor.esp
DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCSpellTomes.esp
DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp
SM Plugin Refurbish - MehrunesRazor.esp
NV Imperial Guard Horse Armour.esp
DLCThievesDen.esp
DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp
SM Plugin Refurbish - ThievesDen.esp
NPCs Alive - Beggers.esp
NPCs Alive - Orges.esp
NPCs Alive - Imps.esp
NPCs Alive - Imperial Legion Foresters.esp
NPCs Alive - Faregyll Inn.esp
NPCs Alive - Goblins.esp
NPCs Alive - Bandits.esp
cyrodiil transportation network wz.esp
Distant Chapel Bells.esp
Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp
Mart's Monster Mod for OOO.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Additional Enemy NPC Vars.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Gems & Gem Dust.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Safer Roads.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Spawn Rates - Reduced Reduced.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Vindasel.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Foxes.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Extra Wounding.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Durzog Addon.esp
Corpse_Kvatch.esp
LetThePeopleDrink.esp
DLCBattlehornCastle.esp
DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp
SM Plugin Refurbish - Battlehorn.esp
DLCFrostcrag.esp
DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp
SM Plugin Refurbish - Frostcrag.esp
Knights.esp
Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp
SM Plugin Refurbish - Knights.esp
Mart's Monster Mod for OOO - Knights .esp
Mart's Monster Mod - City Defences.esp
_burning_kvatch.esp
Natural_Vegetation_by_Max_Tael.esp
Harvest [Flora].esp
Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp
Harvest [Flora] - DLCVileLair.esp
Harvest [Flora] - DLCFrostcrag.esp
Living Economy.esp
Living Economy - Items.esp
Cutthroat Merchants.esp
Enhanced Daedric Invasion.esp
MM_EnemyHPBar.esp
Crowded Roads.esp
Immersive Travelers.esp
Jagnot- Imperial City Library V1.3.esp
Imperial City Waterfront Tunnel Entrance v2.0.esp
GM's Archery Rebalance.esp
GM's Marksman Sneak Attack Mod.esp
immersive_caves_auto.esp
Syc_AtHomeAlchemy.esp
Drop Lit Torches Weight.esp
Dark Dungeons.esp
Dark Dungeons - SI.esp
hackdirtabyss.esp
300 White Stallion 4.esp
CM Partners.esp
Visually Enchanted Fire 3.esp
Visually Enchanted Frost 1.esp
Visually Enchanted Shock 1.esp
Visually Enchanted SoulTrap 1.esp
Deadly Reflex 5 - Timed Block with no damage or durability changes.esp
DeadlyReflex 5 - Combat Moves.esp



Posted by: Psymon Oct 12 2009, 05:35 AM

Delte-

What is it like playing with NPCs alive?

That looks interesting. Never seen that one before. Does it send some NPCs from the cities way out to nowhere or it is more locally tweaked behavior? I use Kragenir's death quest, which I consider very immersive because it adds things to talk about and quests to many many of the unused (by bethesda NPCs). But even so tracking some of them down (because the quests often involve all the other NPCs not used) might be very hard with NPCS alive. Still ... I'm curious about it.

Surprised to not see All Natural in your load order - it is pretty stable and as for atmosphere and immersion it continually amazes me. It also has the most up-to-date Real lights plugin you're gonna find.

Also - have you seen Let There be Darkness: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22819 a continuation of an improvement upon darker dungeons - works the same but covers more and gets rid if the glowing fog.



Posted by: ZableBlaze Oct 12 2009, 05:41 AM

Delte--
I've been following all your topics, since the first one. But I've been quitely lurking around. I think you should consider http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13879. Made by the same author as Realistic Fatigue, it makes it so you don't need to micro manage your stats, and basically removes the immersion breaking "You've leveled up! Want strength to magically go up by 5!?" and increases the attributes as you increase a skill which ties with that attribute. Try it out.



Posted by: Delte Oct 12 2009, 05:43 AM

QUOTE (Psymon @ Oct 11 2009, 11:35 PM)
Delte-

What is it like playing with NPCs alive?


Interesting, simple mod. It adds all sorts of behavior to different types of NPCs. For example, I walked into one of the weapon and armor merchants in the Imperial City, and there were about 15 Imperial Archers in there, all talking, like they were having a meeting. That only happened once, though. I thought it was real cool.

NPCs Alive conflicts all the heck with OOO's behavioral tweaks, though. That's why I have it loaded before OOO. I want OOO to take precedence.

It affects both city and wilderness NPCs.





QUOTE
Surprised to not see All Natural in your load order - it is pretty stable and as for atmosphere and immersion it continually amazes me. It also has the most up-to-date Real lights plugin you're gonna find.


I just heard about that one the other day. I was out of touch with the forum for a while. I may give it a whirl.

I love Natural Environments, though, warts and all.





QUOTE
Also - have you seen Let There be Darkness: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22819 a continuation of an improvement upon darker dungeons - works the same but covers more and gets rid if the glowing fog.



You had me until you mentioned the fog. I like the fog. I think its eerie.


Posted by: Psymon Oct 12 2009, 05:57 AM

How does it affect the critters: goblins, imps, ogres? Mostly combat tweaks?

I'd assume that would conflict with MMM too.

Well I really would suggest trying Let There be Darkness - just esps that install like older Darkness mods. covers SI and Knights too.

All Natural completely encompasses Natural Weather and merges it with Enhanced Weather and AWS - as well as - Real lights and Natural Interiors + ini tweaks for weather transitioning and Darker Nights. Those guys really do great work with that mod and it is amazing and you get so much for so little performance impact.

Combining AN Real lights with LtbD and that is immersion.

welcome back btw



Posted by: Shield Watcher Oct 12 2009, 06:10 AM

Interesting list. I can see here why something like Tamriel Travellers would indeed make the game too easy with that list. It seems to me it all depends on what mods you have.

When you have Mods that make returning to a city from a remote dungeon difficult or getting healed hard or even just carrying stuff tough then TT becomes a minor and realistic\immersive help.

I use Enhanced Weather and just today had deep fog. It wasn`t glowing.(?) I love fog it`s very immersive and realistic. I can attest to this as I was walking from work through the park at about 4 in the morning. There was a dawn light and a heavy fog. The fog in Oblivion Enhanced Weather is just like that- perfect. If someone makes a weather mod that is just like my real life experience there`s no way i`m changing it for anything else. smile.gif



Posted by: Delte Oct 12 2009, 06:27 AM

QUOTE (Shield Watcher @ Oct 12 2009, 12:10 AM)
When you have Mods that make returning to a city from a remote dungeon difficult or getting healed hard or even just carrying stuff tough then TT becomes a minor and realistic\immersive help.


Don't forget that I never, ever, under any circumstances fast travel, either.

And, my normal game uses all the realism mods.

I just decided to turn 'em off for a bit and try some different things (like Cyrodiil Transportation Network...for a semi-immersive fast travel, and Deadly Reflex).

What you see above isn't my "ultimate" line up. It's just what I'm using today. Again, I test a lot of mods, always on the look out for the best of the best.

One can't find the best if the mods aren't tried.


Posted by: Shield Watcher Oct 12 2009, 06:30 AM

Sure. I know. And thanks for the work.



Posted by: desertor Oct 12 2009, 09:10 AM

QUOTE (FallenWizard @ Oct 12 2009, 01:01 AM)
Why should they conflict?


Real fatigue, for exemple, change the progres of skills and Oblivion XP is a total different way of leveling. I would like to have XP configured to only kills counting XP for erase the posibility of exploits as automatic sneaking near a wall with a NPC around for put sneaking to max. I know: "Just d´ont do it", but I want to have the game, if posible, in a maner that it simply d´ont allow me to do exploits. If I dont want automatic travel, for exemple, I dont want the posibility of do it.


QUOTE (Delte @ Oct 12 2009, 04:18 AM)
I'm not using the realism mods right now, waiting on Realistic Fatigue to be updated, but here is my current load order. It may help you.



Sure! it is helping me a lot! Im a complete noob. I have it from the other thread. Thank you for your work.


Posted by: Delte Oct 16 2009, 09:24 PM

I'm looking at testing one of the Kvatch mods.

What's the consensus? Which is a better mod, Kvatch Rebuilt or Kvatch Aftermath (no spoilers please!).

Or, is there another big Kvatch mod that I'm not aware of?



Posted by: wrinklyninja Oct 16 2009, 09:32 PM

Kvatch Rebuilt is better by general concensus, I believel. I'm not even sure you can get ahold of Aftermath anymore.



Posted by: Delte Oct 17 2009, 08:34 PM

I just took out Azani Blackheart. Wow.

He's so tough that it breaks my suspension of disbelief that me an Modryn took him out. We should be toast (and we were, over and over again...defeating him after several trial and error reloads).

I'm sure OOO has something to do with this. My toon isn't underpowered. I could use a new weapon, but that didn't matter. This guy, Azani, slapped it from my hands about every third blow anyway.

I had to resort to cheating, in a sense, to take him out. Modryn is a crowned character, so he never dies. I couldn't last five or seven blows with Azani. I tried.

So, I jumped up high, to a ledge, pinged Azani with arrows, and let poor old Modryn do the work. When he wore him down, I jumped down and fought him, using every magika trick I had in my arsenal. He still nearly killed me again. I was running, when Modryn struck him in the back and finally killed him. One more of those damn powerful blows, and I was a goner. Ancient Ogres are easier to take out than that guy.

Damn.

Great, GREAT, GREAT, story, though. I love the background. I'm a book reader. I don't read 'em all, but from time to time, I do love the texture the books give to the game. Love the lore.

The story behind Azani and why we were there is pretty doggone cool.


I really love this game.



Posted by: Linus Oct 18 2009, 07:09 AM

http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1048895

http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=27731 is an attempt at making ranged combat more realistic, and less eternal, in Oblivion. Primarily, it limits the number of arrows an NPC can have in their quiver at one time to twenty, and determines through scripts when all of those arrows have been loosed. When they have exhausted their supply they will engage in melee. Supposing you kill them prior to that happening, they will be stocked with the remaining arrows they hadn't yet loosed. No more killing a guard with a sneak attack to find he has only four arrows in his quiver.

The catch is that the same rules apply to the player. There will be no more inflated quiver sizes for the PC to take advantage of. The player can have no more than twenty arrows equipped at any one time. As long as they are not in combat they may restock, or swap their quivers as they see fit. However, once the battle begins, what you've got in your quiver is all you have to work with.

This is the first beta release, and is primarily meant as a proof of concept. Still, as far as my testing has devised, it is perfectly stable. Give it a shot, and let me know what you think. smile.gif



Posted by: Delte Oct 18 2009, 10:19 AM

Hey...guess what?



Posted by: Delte Oct 18 2009, 06:25 PM

...DELTE'S LIST HAS BEEN UPDATED!!!...


Finally!



Posted by: desertor Oct 19 2009, 12:45 AM

Hi Delte, I have some questions if you have some time:

In your updated list isnt Deadly Reflexes. Do you recomend this mod?

Wich version of Real sleep do you prefer, first plus bedrooll or extended?

Wich files of the MMM link to PLANET did you install?
"To install first make sure that you have 3.5.5b5 OMOD or 7zip installed first get this at PLANET Elder Scrolls only..Install the 3.5.5 first, "

That means "install 3.5.5, install 3.5.5b5 and then install 3.7.b1andMMMForShiveringIsle?" or "install 3.5.5b5 and then install 3.7.b1andMMMForShiveringIsle?" It is just to install the 2 files at the bottom?



Posted by: mistress miaura Oct 19 2009, 02:44 AM

Aye, that was a Moment, Delte! Got me quite immersed at 4.30 am! Just dropped in to say thanks (for the Moment too...) , this list has given me many good tips in the past and once again I leave a happy downloader after getting one. 74_74.gif I don´t have acces to the net all the time, and it`s allways amazing to see how many new or updated great mods have come up!



Posted by: Yorp Oct 19 2009, 03:08 AM

QUOTE (Delte @ Oct 17 2009, 03:34 PM)
I just took out Azani Blackheart. Wow.

He's so tough that it breaks my suspension of disbelief that me an Modryn took him out. We should be toast (and we were, over and over again...defeating him after several trial and error reloads).

I'm sure OOO has something to do with this. My toon isn't underpowered. I could use a new weapon, but that didn't matter. This guy, Azani, slapped it from my hands about every third blow anyway.

I had to resort to cheating, in a sense, to take him out. Modryn is a crowned character, so he never dies. I couldn't last five or seven blows with Azani. I tried.

So, I jumped up high, to a ledge, pinged Azani with arrows, and let poor old Modryn do the work. When he wore him down, I jumped down and fought him, using every magika trick I had in my arsenal. He still nearly killed me again. I was running, when Modryn struck him in the back and finally killed him. One more of those damn powerful blows, and I was a goner. Ancient Ogres are easier to take out than that guy.

Damn.

Great, GREAT, GREAT, story, though. I love the background. I'm a book reader. I don't read 'em all, but from time to time, I do love the texture the books give to the game. Love the lore.

The story behind Azani and why we were there is pretty doggone cool.


I really love this game.

Yeah, that fight was tough. I played the fighters guild with my last character (an Imperial paladin, who just so happens to be the Champion of Cyrodiil) and since I only use a claymore with that save game, I had to run away and wait until I was stronger. I came back when I was five levels higher, and it still took me seven or eight tries to kill him.

Anyway, the main reason I'm posting is to ask if anybody who uses Dark UI Darn knows how to change the hud permanently. I never use the compass (how could I possibly see a cave when it's five hundred feet away behind a gigantic boulder?) and I never use the sneak eye (for obvious reasons). I'd really like to figure out a way to change it permanently so I don't have to switch the in-game toggles to off every time I load a save file.


Posted by: Bodevanlot Oct 19 2009, 03:16 AM

You can find the specific names of the files you need to edit in the ingame hud-altering menu. I.e., the compass is _cv. Then you go to your data/menus/prefabs/darn, find hudmainmenu_config.xml, open this up in notepad, and edit the value you looked up. So for your compass, you would change _cv from 1 to 0.
I personally just turned my compass off today and am amazed the difference it has made. I didn't realize I relied on it that much. I had meant to turn it off for some time now, but was lazy and never quite got around to it, heh. Now debating whether to turn off my active weapon and spell icons... these are somewhat necessary, and something my character should actually know (and therefore I should), but the less on screen the better :|



Posted by: Yorp Oct 19 2009, 03:34 AM

QUOTE (Bodevanlot @ Oct 18 2009, 10:16 PM)
You can find the specific names of the files you need to edit in the ingame hud-altering menu. I.e., the compass is _cv. Then you go to your data/menus/prefabs/darn, find hudmainmenu_config.xml, open this up in notepad, and edit the value you looked up. So for your compass, you would change _cv from 1 to 0.
I personally just turned my compass off today and am amazed the difference it has made. I didn't realize I relied on it that much. I had meant to turn it off for some time now, but was lazy and never quite got around to it, heh. Now debating whether to turn off my active weapon and spell icons... these are somewhat necessary, and something my character should actually know (and therefore I should), but the less on screen the better :|

Thank you, I'll try that out now.
And I know exactly what you mean. It was bad enough that your character had a psychic ability to see areas of interest, but it's even worse that they knew exactly where to go when participating in quests. With the compass turned off, I have to actually search for people. Makes everything more challenging and a lot more satisfying. smile.gif


Posted by: Delte Oct 19 2009, 05:26 AM

QUOTE (desertor @ Oct 18 2009, 06:45 PM)
Hi Delte, I have some questions if you have some time:

In your updated list isnt Deadly Reflexes. Do you recomend this mod?


It is a good mod, and it's much more immersive than it was originally. But, although I may give version 6 a whirl when it comes out, I decided against Deadly Reflex (for a number of reasons).

So, I don't necessarily recommend the mod. I think the OOO+MMM Combat Scripts are fantastic, and the fights are incredible. Agility plays such a role. The AI is one of the best I've seen in a lot of games. I felt DR was a bit of a cheat, focused on the player's side.

That's why I decided against it.

I will note, though, that it is a good mod, and if it interests you, you may have a different opinion than mine. I'm not strongly against it at all. I'd say I'm 55 against, 45 for. Maybe version 6 will swing me back in the other direction.

Give it a try. Unload it if you don't like it.





QUOTE
Wich version of Real sleep do you prefer, first plus bedrooll or extended?


Extended I've got a problem with. It plays a bit like a super hero. I feel like you can stay away too long. But, it's also configurable. I haven't had time to configure it to my tastes and play around with it.

The older one, list in the "Basement" of Post #2, works very well. It doesn't have the neat yawning sounds (which I love), but the mechanics of the mod are fantastic.

More than likely, Extended is the way to go since it takes into account sleeping in the wilderness or in a bed, or in a low rent bed vs a high quality inn. It will take some playing around with it, though, "to get it right".



QUOTE
Wich files of the MMM link to PLANET did you install?


I've got 3.55 installed, with the 3.7beta1 update and the 3.7beta2 Farm Animals update.

If there's a newer one, then I need to get it. I try to keep OOO and MMM updated, but it's not always easy to keep up.







QUOTE (mistress miaura @ Oct 18 2009, 08:44 PM)
Aye, that was a Moment, Delte! Got me quite immersed at 4.30 am! Just dropped in to say thanks (for the Moment too...) , this list has given me many good tips in the past and once again I leave a happy downloader after getting one. 74_74.gif I don´t have acces to the net all the time, and it`s allways amazing to see how many new or updated great mods have come up!


Glad to hear it! thumbsup.gif I usually don't have much time, but, all weekend, I've been able to live with my favorite rpg. My character, Ryse, is moving up in the world.

This game is truly incredible. Can't believe I've got over 115+ hours into it and barely scratched the surface of what there is to do.







QUOTE (Yorp @ Oct 18 2009, 09:08 PM)
Yeah, that fight was tough. I played the fighters guild with my last character (an Imperial paladin, who just so happens to be the Champion of Cyrodiil) and since I only use a claymore with that save game, I had to run away and wait until I was stronger. I came back when I was five levels higher, and it still took me seven or eight tries to kill him.


I just found a Minotaur lair that happens to be the site of the Council of Minotaurs (goodness, that's why OOO is so fantastic...stuff like this). I fought my way through those suckers, and it damn sure wasn't easy. And, then, the Orgres attacked!! It was Mayhem!

And...all that wasn't as tough as fighting that Redgard.





QUOTE
Anyway, the main reason I'm posting is to ask if anybody who uses Dark UI Darn knows how to change the hud permanently. I never use the compass (how could I possibly see a cave when it's five hundred feet away behind a gigantic boulder?) and I never use the sneak eye (for obvious reasons). I'd really like to figure out a way to change it permanently so I don't have to switch the in-game toggles to off every time I load a save file.


I don't use the compass either. Never. Immersive Interface takes it out with a click. I don't know (don't think so) if its compatible with Darn's mod, though.



Posted by: Delte Oct 19 2009, 05:31 AM

QUOTE (Linus @ Oct 18 2009, 01:09 AM)
http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1048895




Folks, just a quick note: For those of you who haven't been perusing Delte's Thread since the beginning, I wanted to make a note and say that THIS is what this thread is all about. If you've got an immersion or realism mod that you want to advertise or discuss, then you're welcome to do it here. This thread gets a lot of hits every issue. People are looking for stuff like this. Always remember to provide a link, too, the way Linus did above.

I welcome mod announcements, mod discussions, mod reviews, and immersion stories from your game. If you tell a story, try to somehow (at the bottom of the story or within it) let people know which mods made that unique experience happen for you. And...don't forget the link!



Posted by: Yorp Oct 19 2009, 05:59 AM

All this talk about strong boss characters reminds me of a battle I fought against a bunch of necromancers in some cave modified by OOO. At the bottom of the cave was a named female necromancer (forget the name) who was really strong. Like, summon three spectral warriors but kill you with a ranged spell just for the fun of it strong. I was using my level ~20 warmage character, but despite my character's skill in all schools of magic, the necromancer was too tough. I didn't want to just run, though, because there was a bunch of loot with my name on it right behind her in the next part of the cave, and I had already spent the better part of an hour searching the dungeon. So I spend around seven minutes casting invisibility spells while running around the caves, flipping back and forth through my inventory, until I finally found something useful in a chest in another room: an enchanted arrow. I'm not sure if it was from OOO or not, but it had an enchantment called "Dark Welkynd Strike" or something. I had never pcked up an arrow with that enchantment before, and in the hundred-odd hours since, I have yet to see it again. So, not knowing what function the arrow held, and not having any other options, I elected to pick up a silver bow off of the remains of a fallen skeleton archer, determined to at least see what the arrow did. Shrouded by my invisibility spell, I ran back to the part of the cave where the named necromancer lay in wait. I strung my bow, shot the arrow, and, despite my lacking marksman abilities, hit my target. The necromancer died instantly. Apparently, that was the function of the arrow: one-hit KO. I think the moment I looted the necromancer's corpse was the most satisfying moment I've ever had the pleasure of experiencing in Oblivion. biggrin.gif

QUOTE
I don't use the compass either. Never. Immersive Interface takes it out with a click. I don't know (don't think so) if its compatible with Darn's mod, though.


The notepad method Bodevanlot recommended worked great. Now I never have to worry about accidentally seeing quest markers. smile.gif

Delte: I see you use Cyrodiil Transportation Network. I do, too, but I also use a similar mod made by Arthmoor, because I get a lot of glitches with the CTN, like random crashes (even though I've cleaned it). Really, the only reason it's still active is so I have access to a Divine Intervention spell comparable to that of Morrowind's.


Posted by: Delte Oct 19 2009, 06:19 AM

QUOTE (Yorp @ Oct 18 2009, 11:59 PM)
All this talk about strong boss characters reminds me of a battle I fought against a bunch of necromancers in some cave modified by OOO.


Just had an incredible experience tonight. I'll be vague about it, because I don't want to spoil it for those who haven't discovered it yet.

It wasn't an ordinary old crumbling fort I entered. I discovered that it was the den of the Minotaur Lord, and a council was being convened. The door I entered to get this shot actually read "Minotaur Council Room".

Looking across the gloom and seeing those horns spiking up makes you a little queasy in the stomach. Those aren't regular minotaurs over there. Those are lords, every one of them.

Kinda makes your poo-poo tighten.

The place was crawling with minotaurs! All sorts, shapes, and sizes of them.

One regular minotaur is enough. I can fight two of the regular types, but it's a desperate fight. Throw a lord in there, and we're talking trouble.

When I reached a particular room, the place was snorting with three lords and five regular minotaurs. One saw me and alerted the rest. It was an easy decision. I ran!

I ran like a little girl!

The minotaurs are quick (and my Agility is one of my lowest stats), so I suffered blows running from them. I could feel their hot breath down the back of my neck. I got a little bit of a lead once I jumped from a bridge to the ground below. The minotaurs weren't that stupid. They took the steps.

Eight minotaurs on my tail, and I'm hauling for the entrance. I can't see--it's so dark in there--I'm casting a light spell every so often, using up my precous magika reserves.

How the heck am I, or anybody, supposed to survive this?

I hang a left. I can see the thick double doors to the fort's entrance. It's the way I came in. It's just down the hall and up the steps...

When, coming INTO the fort is a horde of OGRES!

That's right! That's what really happened! I've got eight minotaurs chasing me, and now I'm sandwiched between them and about twelve OGRES of all shapes and sizes.

GOOD GRIEF! WHAT A GAME!

This has to be something OOO is doing. I've never experienced anything like this in the vanilla game (or in the modded game, either...this is a first!).

The Ogres and Minotaurs clashed, two armies rushing at each other, with me right in the middle.

What a fight!

Whatever was close to me attacked, be it Minotaur or Ogre. I thought I was a goner. I had two Minotaurs and one Ogre on me, when some new Ogres attacked the Minotaurs, leaving me to deal with the Ogre. I fought and I fought. All of my armor was bashed down to zero health. My magic all but spent.

I ran and let the two giant types fight it out.

In the end, there were bodies, bodies, bodies as far as the eye could see.




QUOTE
Delte: I see you use Cyrodiil Transportation Network. I do, too, but I also use a similar mod made by Arthmoor, because I get a lot of glitches with the CTN, like random crashes (even though I've cleaned it). Really, the only reason it's still active is so I have access to a Divine Intervention spell comparable to that of Morrowind's.


Yep, I just picked up Divine Intervention myself. Had to use it once, too, to save my skin. It was one of those use-it-now-or-die moments.

What Arthmoor mod do you use? Link please!


Posted by: Yorp Oct 19 2009, 06:32 AM

QUOTE (Delte @ Oct 19 2009, 01:19 AM)
snip

And that's exactly why I use FCOM: you get realism peppered with bits of epic.
It's funny you mentioned that, though, because I think I've been in that dungeon before, but my experience was a lot different: I sneaked around the first part of the dungeon, opening up chests and killing rats, when I heard a bunch of monsters fighting. After I had collected all the loot I could find, I ventured farther into the fort, and found dead ogres and minotaurs everywhere. Really great for my level ten assassin (who'd probably get one-shotted by a minotaur lord).
QUOTE
What Arthmoor mod do you use? Link please!

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=21999. It's basically exactly the same as CTN, only without the spells, the guild guides, and the ships. The biggest difference, though, is that CTS is really well put together. In CTN, once you decided to travel somewhere, you're automatically transported to your destination. Unfortunately, that leads to some glitches: whenever I talk to anybody after I've been transported, I get this weird swirling effect where everything goes out of focus and then zooms back in on the conversation. With Arthmoor's mod, you're transported to wherever it is you want to go after the dialogue closes, so there's no glitch. Plus, with CTN, sometimes the NPCs randomly wander off, and for whatever reason, this causes crashes in my game. I put up with it, though, because Divine Intervention is invaluable when you use http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16324 mod to avoid the temptation of fast-travel. smile.gif


Posted by: Blaise Oct 19 2009, 06:33 AM

*delurks*

I really, really, really love this thread.

*relurks*



Posted by: Delte Oct 19 2009, 06:46 AM

QUOTE (Yorp @ Oct 19 2009, 12:32 AM)
And that's exactly why I use FCOM: you get realism peppered with bits of epic.


Never tried it. It was too fussy to load for my tastes (I think they've got an easy exe now, don't they?) I played Frans for a while. Then Frans + MMM. Then, I discovered OOO + MMM, fell in love, and never looked back.

I've read up on some FCOM stuff, and some of the stuff seems non-lore friendly to me. It turned me off a bit. But, that was early on. Maybe it's changed now. Some people think some of the MMM monsters are not lore friendly. I haven't seen one yet that I didn't think fit the game, and it sure is nice to be constantly surprised my new monsters, not just different versions of things I've already seen.

For example, tonight, I was in the mountains near Bruma when I heard some type of shriek! I heard it about three times. I'm thinking it might be a wyvern, but I don't know. I've only seen one other in my game, and it was dead. I heard the shriek about three more times...then...nothing.

Nothing happened.

Good God, I love this game.





QUOTE
It's funny you mentioned that, though, because I think I've been in that dungeon before, but my experience was a lot different: I sneaked around the first part of the dungeon, opening up chests and killing rats, when I heard a bunch of monsters fighting. After I had collected all the loot I could find, I ventured farther into the fort, and found dead ogres and minotaurs everywhere. Really great for my level ten assassin (who'd probably get one-shotted by a minotaur lord).


No rats in this one. Only minotaurs and ogres. I didn't fight or see a single other type of monster.

And, what's cool, the place was literally cleaned out, all dead, as I neared the end of the dungeon. I went through a door get back to the hallway that leads outside...and guess what! More minotaurs arrived! Reinforcements.

I fought two near the door and got the hell out of there while I still had my skin.





QUOTE
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=21999. It's basically exactly the same as CTN, only without the spells, the guild guides, and the ships. The biggest difference, though, is that CTS is really well put together. In CTN, once you decided to travel somewhere, you're automatically transported to your destination. Unfortunately, that leads to some glitches: whenever I talk to anybody after I've been transported, I get this weird swirling effect where everything goes out of focus and then zooms back in on the conversation. With Arthmoor's mod, you're transported to wherever it is you want to go after the dialogue closes, so there's no glitch. Plus, with CTN, sometimes the NPCs randomly wander off, and for whatever reason, this causes crashes in my game. I put up with it, though, because Divine Intervention is invaluable when you use http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16324 mod to avoid the temptation of fast-travel. smile.gif


Just for the record, I get no glitches like that with CTN. I like the NPCs wandering off, too. They'll typically go to a bar and get some food or grab some shut eye someplace. You just got to look around for them.

I like how not each point is connected to the other. For example, if you're in Anvil, and you want to go to Chorrol, you've got to go to Skingrad first. There is no direct Anvil-Chorrol run.

The one thing I don't like about the mod is that it never shows you, upfront, how much the trip will cost. It's always less than 20 septims, so I don't worry about it. But, it'd be nice to see the prices beforehand.

And, I think a good modder could do away with the silent subtitles and just use the generic voice acting from the game. You could probably get everything you needed from the generic files, not unlike getting a bed with an innkeeper.





QUOTE (Blaise @ Oct 19 2009, 12:33 AM)
*delurks*

I really, really, really love this thread.

*relurks*


intergalactic.gif


Posted by: Yorp Oct 19 2009, 07:04 AM

QUOTE (Delte @ Oct 19 2009, 01:46 AM)
Never tried it. It was too fussy to load for my tastes (I think they've got an easy exe now, don't they?) I played Frans for a while. Then Frans + MMM. Then, I discovered OOO + MMM, fell in love, and never looked back.

I've read up on some FCOM stuff, and some of the stuff seems non-lore friendly to me. It turned me off a bit. But, that was early on. Maybe it's changed now. Some people think some of the MMM monsters are not lore friendly. I haven't seen one yet that I didn't think fit the game, and it sure is nice to be constantly surprised my new monsters, not just different versions of things I've already seen.

Nah, no exe. Still takes around five hours to install everything and get it working correctly. I think it's worth it, though, because it's basically OOO + MMM that's a lot harder because of WarCry and Fran's. Plus, you get the added bonus of having tons and tons of different armor pieces. I see new armor every day.

QUOTE (Delte @ Oct 19 2009, 01:46 AM)
No rats in this one. Only minotaurs and ogres. I didn't fight or see a single other type of monster.

And, what's cool, the place was literally cleaned out, all dead, as I neared the end of the dungeon. I went through a door get back to the hallway that leads outside...and guess what! More minotaurs arrived! Reinforcements.

I fought two near the door and got the hell out of there while I still had my skin.

I find rats in almost every dungeon in the game. Maybe it's from a different mod, or maybe I use different MMM plug-ins than you. Or maybe there's another dungeon where minotaurs and ogres like to beat each other up. shrug.gif

QUOTE (Delte @ Oct 19 2009, 01:46 AM)
Just for the record, I get no glitches like that with CTN. I like the NPCs wandering off, too. They'll typically go to a bar and get some food or grab some shut eye someplace. You just got to look around for them.

I like how not each point is connected to the other. For example, if you're in Anvil, and you want to go to Chorrol, you've got to go to Skingrad first. There is no direct Anvil-Chorrol run.

The one thing I don't like about the mod is that it never shows you, upfront, how much the trip will cost. It's always less than 20 septims, so I don't worry about it. But, it'd be nice to see the prices beforehand.

And, I think a good modder could do away with the silent subtitles and just use the generic voice acting from the game. You could probably get everything you needed from the generic files, not unlike getting a bed with an innkeeper.

I don't know what's causing it to mess up for me, then. I got the strange graphical glitches both before and after I cleaned the mod with TES4Edit. This saddens me. :/

Also! I'm wondering if you've ever tried out http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22819 mod, Delte. Let There Be Darkness is probably the best immersion mod in my load order right now. It makes dungeons a lot scarier, and a lot more realistic. The Ayleid ruins look especially fantastic: in the original game, the ruins look pretty old and dusty, but it's not exactly exciting. With Let There Be Darkness, the walls almost glow with a sickly green sheen when light hits them, and the cracks in the walls become more defined. In caves, everything is pitch black - like it should be - and so I always carry around a few torches and a night eye spell. I still can't believe the mod only has 3000 ish downloads.


Posted by: Delte Oct 19 2009, 07:10 AM

QUOTE (Yorp @ Oct 19 2009, 01:04 AM)
Also! I'm wondering if you've ever tried out http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22819 mod, Delte. Let There Be Darkness is probably the best immersion mod in my load order right now.


I haven't, but this is not the first time it's been recommended to me (just recently, too). What turns me off about it is in the readme. I LIKE the fog in the deep, dark places. I don't want to remove that.

And, as it stands, my dungeons are pretty doggone dark. I mean, I can't see squat, sometimes, without Nighteye or a light source. And, I mean nothing--not even my character.

But, not every place is like that. Some are more well lighted. Plus, I use the mod that puts torches in the hands of dungeons denziens (and sometimes, there's an adventuring party down there, and they usually have torches).

When I'm off by myself, though, especially in places with undead, it's dark as dark can be. I've got my light spell on a hotkey.



Posted by: Yorp Oct 19 2009, 07:17 AM

QUOTE (Delte @ Oct 19 2009, 02:10 AM)
I haven't, but this is not the first time it's been recommended to me (just recently, too). What turns me off about it is in the readme. I LIKE the fog in the deep, dark places. I don't want to remove that.

And, as it stands, my dungeons are pretty doggone dark. I mean, I can't see squat, sometimes, without Nighteye or a light source. And, I mean nothing--not even my character.

But, not every place is like that. Some are more well lighted. Plus, I use the mod that puts torches in the hands of dungeons denziens (and sometimes, there's an adventuring party down there, and they usually have torches).

When I'm off by myself, though, especially in places with undead, it's dark as dark can be. I've got my light spell on a hotkey.

I guess it's just a matter of choice, then. I don't care for the fog, because I don't think you could really see fog in the bottom of a dark cave in real life.
Do you use QTP3, or any of its smaller cousins? If you do, you should totally give it a chance sometime. The high definition textures look soo much better with LTBD. I don't know why, but everything seems a lot more defined, especially in Ayleid ruins and sacked forts.


Posted by: Delte Oct 19 2009, 07:31 AM

QUOTE (Yorp @ Oct 19 2009, 01:17 AM)
I guess it's just a matter of choice, then. I don't care for the fog, because I don't think you could really see fog in the bottom of a dark cave in real life.


True. But, for me, it's got that "other worldly" vibe to it. It seems realistic to me in Cyrodiil, especially around the undead. I find it spooky.



QUOTE
Do you use QTP3, or any of its smaller cousins? If you do, you should totally give it a chance sometime. The high definition textures look soo much better with LTBD. I don't know why, but everything seems a lot more defined, especially in Ayleid ruins and sacked forts.


What I use, right now, is all listed in Post #2 (although I'm always trying new things).

I never tried QTP because, when I first started Oblivion, I was on a much less powerful computer. I'd heard the texture packs suck fps. If that's the case, I don't need them. Oblivion looks great just the way it is.

How is it with QTP3? Lose any frame rate?







One of the things I like about my set-up is the pace. I'm about 115 or so hours into the game. My tune is about Level 17 or so. I've been following the main quest, the Knights of the White Stallion, and the Fighter's Guild quests only (although I'm about to pick up the Knights of the Nine quest, and I've started an OOO hidden quest).

All this, and I've just, tonight, seen my first piece of ebony armor. I found a pair of gauntlets in the Minotaur fort I mention above. That's it. Just a pair of ebony guantlets.

Magic is rare, using my set-up. It's expensive, too. Stonewall Shields has the Tower of the Nine shield for something like 43,000 septims.

That's the way magic should be. Rare and expensive.

If you find something, it may be worth 9,000 septims, but you can't find anybody to sell it to that has that kind of money. I end up selling a piece like that for 1,000 or 1,5000 gold coins.

...Not that I find that many magical items to begin with. Heck, I just sold a ring that gives +2 Willpower during tonights game--got about a thousand gold for it.

I was over at a friends last weekend helping him install some mods. He'd been playing the vanilla game for a bit. His toon was 7th level. I tried him out to test things and make sure the mods were working correctly, and I couldn't believe what I saw. He's 7th level walking around in a full set of Mithral armor. Wow.

Not in my game. "Where'd you get all that?" I asked him. "Oh, here and there," he said. "Off some dead brigands, mostly."

I had forgotten how liberal the vanilla game can be. Thank God we've got all these cool mods to make Oblivion the game that it is.



Posted by: Yorp Oct 19 2009, 07:48 AM

QUOTE (Delte @ Oct 19 2009, 02:31 AM)
True. But, for me, it's got that "other worldly" vibe to it. It seems realistic to me in Cyrodiil, especially around the undead. I find it spooky.





What I use, right now, is all listed in Post #2 (although I'm always trying new things).

I never tried QTP because, when I first started Oblivion, I was on a much less powerful computer. I'd heard the texture packs suck fps. If that's the case, I don't need them. Oblivion looks great just the way it is.

How is it with QTP3? Lose any frame rate?

I use an ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4650 (1.0 GB of VRAM) with a 2.0 ghz quad-core processor, plus 6GB of RAM. In vanilla Oblivion, without any texture packs, I get around 50 fps outdoors. With QTP3R installed in a mod free environment, I go down to around 43. It really depends on your graphics card: if you have one that's around the strength of my card or better, you should be able to run QTP3R with not a lot of lost performance. Just make sure you get redimized and reduced if you do get it, because there's not a lot of loss in quality, and it runs better.
And I disagree with you. I think vanilla Oblivion textures look like poo-poo. tongue.gif

QUOTE (Delte @ Oct 19 2009, 02:31 AM)
One of the things I like about my set-up is the pace. I'm about 115 or so hours into the game. My tune is about Level 17 or so. I've been following the main quest, the Knights of the White Stallion, and the Fighter's Guild quests only (although I'm about to pick up the Knights of the Nine quest, and I've started an OOO hidden quest).

All this, and I've just, tonight, seen my first piece of ebony armor. I found a pair of gauntlets in the Minotaur fort I mention above. That's it. Just a pair of ebony guantlets.

Magic is rare, using my set-up. It's expensive, too. Stonewall Shields has the Tower of the Nine shield for something like 43,000 septims.

That's the way magic should be. Rare and expensive.

If you find something, it may be worth 9,000 septims, but you can't find anybody to sell it to that has that kind of money. I end up selling a piece like that for 1,000 or 1,5000 gold coins.

...Not that I find that many magical items to begin with. Heck, I just sold a ring that gives +2 Willpower during tonights game--got about a thousand gold for it.

I was over at a friends last weekend helping him install some mods. He'd been playing the vanilla game for a bit. His toon was 7th level. I tried him out to test things and make sure the mods were working correctly, and I couldn't believe what I saw. He's 7th level walking around in a full set of Mithral armor. Wow.

Not in my game. "Where'd you get all that?" I asked him. "Oh, here and there," he said. "Off some dead brigands, mostly."

I had forgotten how liberal the vanilla game can be. Thank God we've got all these cool mods to make Oblivion the game that it is.

What do you use to make enchanted items so rare and expensive? I know it's hard in my game to find really good items, but I get a band of luck or something just about every other chest.


Posted by: TheNiceOne Oct 19 2009, 08:29 AM

QUOTE (Delte @ Oct 19 2009, 06:26 AM)
Extended I've got a problem with. It plays a bit like a super hero. I feel like you can stay away too long. But, it's also configurable. I haven't had time to configure it to my tastes and play around with it.
This is of course subjective, so I cannot say you are wrong, but one difference between Real Sleep Extended and Real Sleep is that due to all the factors that affect your sleep negatively in RSE, the feeling that you can stay away too long is a bit misleading, as you will then need more sleep than you think to catch up.

But it is relatively easy to set it up so that you cannot stay awake longer than in Real Sleep. Here's the modified values:

CODE
set RSE.minWake to 8
set RSE.enduranceFactor to 10
set RSE.additionalHours to 0

Those three combined make you become tired exactly as fast as with Real Sleep.

CODE
set RSE.maxTiredness to 0

This removes the maximum tiredness cap (that is default set to 24)

That's about it.

You may also want to look at
QUOTE
set RSE.attributeDecrease to 0
set RSE.percentageDecrease to 1.5

Real Sleep works so that each attribute is decreased by one for each hour of tiredness. To get the same effect, set set RSE.attributeDecrease to 1. But default in RSE is that instead of this, each attribute is decreased by 1.5% of its base value per hour. That means that an attribute with base value of 50 will decrease by 0.75 per hour, and one with base value of 100 will decrease by 1.5 per hour. So RSE has the same relative effect for low- and high- level characters.

QUOTE
The older one, list in the "Basement" of Post #2, works very well. It doesn't have the neat yawning sounds (which I love), but the mechanics of the mod are fantastic.

More than likely, Extended is the way to go since it takes into account sleeping in the wilderness or in a bed, or in a low rent bed vs a high quality inn. It will take some playing around with it, though, "to get it right".

Again subjective, but my main beef with Real Sleep and Real Sleep Updated, which was the reason I started on Real Sleep Extended in the first place, is that in the two former, one hour of sleep always account for 2 hours of tiredness. One thing is that I think it is more immersive to take time of day etc. into account, but the main problem with this, is that it works against the feature of being able to stay longer awake when your Endurance get higher.

In Real Sleep, a player with 40 Endurance can stay awake for 12 hours, and then need 6 hours sleep. A player with 100 Endurance can stay awake for 18 hours, but then need 9 hours sleep, so both must sleep 33% of the time anyway. So this really removes any ties to a 24 hour cycle, especially since you sleep just as well during the day. In Real Sleep Extended, a player who can stay awake for 18 hours will only need 6 hours of effective sleep to catch up.


BTW, have you looked at my mod http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1045975 yet Delte? It is no less than a replacer for Living Economy (including Cutthroat Merchants) with some improvements and a lot of additional (optional) features. It still doesn't have the Living Economy - Items feature, but is compatible with this plugin for LE.


Posted by: S'lider Oct 19 2009, 04:06 PM

Hi, I'm a long time lurker, and very occasional poster on this thread. My game has been getting steadily more immersionist for the last 18months, and decided to comment on some mods that I love as an immersion player that I don't see mentioned on Delte's list. Most of these are well known, but i still think Delte should consider listing them-


http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11892


This adds a pipe to the player character that can be smoked. It has a lovely smoking animation. The most immersive thing about the mod is that it can be configured to give NPCs a chance of smoking. I find it a real boost to immersion when I come across an NPC quietly smoking his or her pipe sitting in the corner of an inn, or on a bench in a town.


http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=21966

by kuertee
A very useful little mod that works well with Realistic Fatigue. Click on virtually any rock or tree, also some dungeon rubble, and a rock appears so the PC can sit down for a breather and restore their fatigue. Why not take the opportunity to admire the view and smoke your pipe!


http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22751
by I_Need_Money
This adds a number of little settlements around Lake Rumere, mostly small farms. It adds several small quests, most of which are suitable for a character fresh out of the Imperial Prison. It also gently expands Weye, adding four or five cottages and a couple of barns and fields. The Weye improvement is, to my mind, the best of the Weye mods, it fits exactly my conception of what the village should be like. Other Weye mods try to do too much with the place. Overall the mod goes a long way to making the area around the IC feel less like a wasteland, and more like the hinterland to an important city.


http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16005


Sleep on a bed rather than standing up beside it. Why didn’t the original game do this?


http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=27474

A recent mod by Corepc that randomises the clothing of many NPCs. I hated how the NPCs always wore the same clothes. You recognised people by what they wore rather than what they looked like. Now your typical NPC could be wearing a selection of clothing appropriate to their rank in society. It adds some much needed variety to the cities.

And finally one that doesn't appear to be available at present-

Simple Essentials

This is an Eat/Drink/Sleep mod made by Skycaptain, that works simply, intuitively and flawlessly. You can eat any food that you would normally expect to be able to eat without the trouble of the any special apparatus. You can drink any normal drink, and can get water from wells, lakes, ponds, anywhere and store it in easily acquired bottles for later consumption. You can make watered wine. There are small bonuses when you eat/drink/sleep, and gradually increasing penalties when you do without.

I can’t find a download link to this. Skycaptain released it as a beta, but was it never finalised. The WIP thread descended into acrimony and I suspect Skycaptain abandoned it.

I love this mod, and I wish Skycaptain would release it for immersionists to enjoy, hint hint.



Posted by: Shield Watcher Oct 19 2009, 05:23 PM

QUOTE (Delte @ Oct 17 2009, 08:34 PM)
I just took out Azani Blackheart. Wow.

He's so tough that it breaks my suspension of disbelief that me an Modryn took him out. We should be toast (and we were, over and over again...defeating him after several trial and error reloads).

I'm sure OOO has something to do with this. My toon isn't underpowered. I could use a new weapon, but that didn't matter. This guy, Azani, slapped it from my hands about every third blow anyway.

I had to resort to cheating, in a sense, to take him out. Modryn is a crowned character, so he never dies. I couldn't last five or seven blows with Azani. I tried.

So, I jumped up high, to a ledge, pinged Azani with arrows, and let poor old Modryn do the work. When he wore him down, I jumped down and fought him, using every magika trick I had in my arsenal. He still nearly killed me again. I was running, when Modryn struck him in the back and finally killed him. One more of those damn powerful blows, and I was a goner. Ancient Ogres are easier to take out than that guy.

Damn.

Great, GREAT, GREAT, story, though. I love the background. I'm a book reader. I don't read 'em all, but from time to time, I do love the texture the books give to the game. Love the lore.

The story behind Azani and why we were there is pretty doggone cool.


I really love this game.





Had a very similar experience too. he was incredibly hard to beat. Obviously OOO and other mods. I tried a dozen techniques and combinations. Finally, I used just the right potions. I can`t remember them all but it was a combo of spell silence so he couldn`t keep casting, drinking some reflect spell thing I had and using scrolls to summon astronach, skeletons just to keep him occupied and a sword that heavily fatigued him. I also had Viconia and Mordryn. Before he stood up to all of this battering everyone and finally me, but on this one occasion I must have somehow taken off all his defences in one go because he died very, very quickly. I was still swinging my sword like crazy when i realised he was long dead! He must have been very high level because the kit he had was not all that great except for his sword.


Posted by: mdpeyrot Oct 19 2009, 05:56 PM

I think the vanilla method of full healing through waiting or rest makes the game too easy and doesn't make a lot of sense for the immersionist. One of the mods I can't play without is http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4888 by Gardhul. It removes the healing ability of waiting and restricts sleep based healing through the use of recovery points. You accumulate a point for every 2 hours of awake time, up to 8 points max. Each point heals 1/8 of your HP in one hour of sleep. So it takes 8 hours of sleep with 8 recovery points to heal your maximum. I especially like that you can't heal up to full with a one hour cat nap. Staggering through a dungeon with minimal health, with tunnel vision from http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=21424 makes for some desperate gaming experiences, especially if you have a disease as well. It also increases the value of healing potions and spells.

Which reminds me, does it make any sense that everybody starts with the flame and healing spells regardless of class? I don't play a magic user, so why do I have these? http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2133 gets rid of them.



Posted by: Shield Watcher Oct 19 2009, 08:41 PM

QUOTE (mdpeyrot @ Oct 19 2009, 05:56 PM)
I think the vanilla method of full healing through waiting or rest makes the game too easy and doesn't make a lot of sense for the immersionist. One of the mods I can't play without is http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4888 by Gardhul. It removes the healing ability of waiting and restricts sleep based healing through the use of recovery points. You accumulate a point for every 2 hours of awake time, up to 8 points max. Each point heals 1/8 of your HP in one hour of sleep. So it takes 8 hours of sleep with 8 recovery points to heal your maximum. I especially like that you can't heal up to full with a one hour cat nap. Staggering through a dungeon with minimal health, with tunnel vision from http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=21424 makes for some desperate gaming experiences, especially if you have a disease as well. It also increases the value of healing potions and spells.

Which reminds me, does it make any sense that everybody starts with the flame and healing spells regardless of class? I don't play a magic user, so why do I have these? http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2133 gets rid of them.



Fully agree. I have had all of these in the past. The only one I don`t have now is less healthful rest cos i`m afraid it might conflict with other sleep mods I have.


Posted by: Delte Oct 19 2009, 10:44 PM

QUOTE (Yorp @ Oct 19 2009, 01:48 AM)
What do you use to make enchanted items so rare and expensive? I know it's hard in my game to find really good items, but I get a band of luck or something just about every other chest.


Rare? I'm sure that's OOO. Expensive? It's got to be Living Economy.

Magical stuff is pretty rare in my game. I'm just now, at level 15-16-17-18 (somewhere in there, I forget), starting to find worthwhile stuff. I found a necklace that gives +10 Luck. I've to a +10 STR ring. Armor-wise, I see some dwarven stuff, mostly of the "worn" variety. It's rare that I find a piece that's not "worn".

As I said up thread, I've just found my first piece of ebony--some gauntlets.

Ryse has some magical stuff, after the 115+ hours of play, but it's nothing to write home about.

Hellstryke: This is a daedric mace I picked up when doing the Kvatch quest. I zapped it with the Kvatch Sigil Stone, so it is +10 cold damage. Ryse specializes in blunt weapons plus shield, so this has been the best weapon I've been able to acquire during the entirety of my game so far.

My helmet is steel, giving +15 Magicka.

I stole the steel chestpiece from the Fighter's Guild (not too good of me, I know...some Knight Ryse is...but, that was earlier in the game. He's a changed man...no, really! He is!). It's got an enchantment on it, but I've forgotten what it does.

Gauntlets are ebony and non-magical. Just got them!

Boots are steel. They provide a little feather magick.

Leggings are Iron! But, they're also magical, providing some small benefit--I forget.

Shield: This is my best item. It's a quest item, a shield that provides 10% reflect damage. The Countess of Chorrol bestowed it on Ryse.

And, I wear a black cape with the Imperial crest woven onto it. Not magical. It just keeps me warm on cold nights. I took it from some smuggler's lair.

That's it! That's the best of what I've been able to find in 115+ hours of gaming!

I've got two necklaces and a few rings, too.

I'll admit...I really like my game this way. It sure makes it exciting when I find something good!







QUOTE (S'lider @ Oct 19 2009, 10:06 AM)
Hi, I'm a long time lurker, and very occasional poster on this thread. My game has been getting steadily more immersionist for the last 18months, and decided to comment on some mods that I love as an immersion player that I don't see mentioned on Delte's list. Most of these are well known, but i still think Delte should consider listing them



QUOTE (mdpeyrot @ Oct 19 2009, 11:56 AM)
I think the vanilla method of full healing through waiting or rest makes the game too easy and doesn't make a lot of sense for the immersionist. One of the mods I can't play without is...


Ahhh.... Posts like in the good old days when the thread was first started.

Keep this kind of stuff coming! That's why people keep tuning in!



Posted by: Delte Oct 19 2009, 10:56 PM

QUOTE (TheNiceOne @ Oct 19 2009, 02:29 AM)
This is of course subjective, so I cannot say you are wrong...


I admit, your mod looks to be the best one out there. I like what you've done with a lot of the "details" (like sleeping outdoors). I just didn't like the default settings.

I think my issue is with the settings, not the mod. I bet it can be tuned to be an amazing mod. I'll give it a shot when I put the Sleep mod back on my game.





QUOTE
Again subjective...


Of course! It's all "subjective", what a man wants in his game. Some of my friends irl don't like Realistic Fatigue. I understand their side, too.

Tamriel Travellers and Clocks of Cyrodiil, both fantastic mods created by very talented modders. I, personally, don't find them "immersive", but I do understand why so many people like those mods.







QUOTE
BTW, have you looked at my mod http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1045975 yet Delte?


I started to a while back when you mentioned it. I saw that the haggle slider was disabled, and I didn't like that. I get a kick out of bartering with the merchants. I don't want the "perfect" place on the slider selected for me. I want to make mistakes and try to get them to buy something they normally wouldn't (by getting their opinion of me higher).

Can that part of your mod be disabled so that the slider is available?



Posted by: StarX Oct 19 2009, 11:07 PM

Wow! Is it thread 24 already? Good to see you still going strong, Delte! Even though I'm not a complete purist when it comes to realistic mods (I hate eating and sleeping for instance!), I started using quite a few others because of your threads from the very beginning. Cheers, mate! foodndrink.gif

QUOTE (Delte @ Oct 20 2009, 01:26 AM)
I started to a while back when you mentioned it. I saw that the haggle slider was disabled, and I didn't like that. I get a kick out of bartering with the merchants. I don't want the "perfect" place on the slider selected for me. I want to make mistakes and try to get them to buy something they normally wouldn't (by getting their opinion of me higher).

Can that part of your mod be disabled so that the slider is available?

As a user of Enhanced Economy I also would like to request to make the haggle slider to be at least optional. It's a great mod, but I also like to be called on my bluff now and than, whem trying to outsmart a merchant. smile.gif


Posted by: Psymon Oct 20 2009, 09:31 AM

Well after searching and searching - I gotta say the one mod which I don't think has been done well is a mod that adds children to Tamriel and the Isles.

It really is a massive immersion breaker for me.

House after house ... road after road ... village after village - and no kids.

I'm not even a family person myself but it is something that just sticks out with this game.

The two mods I've found have issues.

There is this mod - Improved Child Races: http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=OblivionMods.Detail&id=3577 that is dependent upon Beautiful People - a broken mod itself. It is annoying in that it doesn't just add but also changes existing NPCs to kids.

Then there is MoDem's City Life: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11351 which throws up errors when attempting to bash and is purported to cause crashes. Right now I've cleaned my copy (not dirty really) and deleted a few (hopefully) problematic NPCs that the CS didn't like, It bashed OK - but I'm no modder. I've played with it before and other than swarm around and act annoying the kids don't play much of a role (maybe more like real life than I'd care to admit).

Anyone know of any other children mods with good compatibility?



Posted by: TheNiceOne Oct 20 2009, 09:50 AM

QUOTE (Delte @ Oct 19 2009, 11:56 PM)
I started to a while back when you mentioned it. I saw that the haggle slider was disabled, and I didn't like that. I get a kick out of bartering with the merchants. I don't want the "perfect" place on the slider selected for me. I want to make mistakes and try to get them to buy something they normally wouldn't (by getting their opinion of me higher).

Can that part of your mod be disabled so that the slider is available?
Sorry, but the disabling of the haggle game is too integrated to be removed. It is just not that I have removed it, the way EE calculates barter prices is completely different than in the vanilla game (or Living Economy), which is why you can set the barter ranges to exactly what you want in EE (I play hardcore where I only got to sell values for 0-30% of the real value), and is also why I can have global economy factors affecting the barter prices. So if you really want the haggle game, EE isn't for you.

QUOTE (StarX)
As a user of Enhanced Economy I also would like to request to make the haggle slider to be at least optional. It's a great mod, but I also like to be called on my bluff now and than, whem trying to outsmart a merchant.
Well, before I got rid of the haggle slider, I would always do the following:
1. Set the haggle slider to what I though was about right.
2. Try to sell one of my cheapest items (normally one arrow)
3. If the merchant accepted, move the haggle slider 4 ticks to the right and repeat until he rejects my offer.
4. Then move 2 ticks back. If he rejects again, move 1 more tick back until he approves, then start bartering for real.
5. If he approved, then move one tick to the right. If he approves, start bartering for real, if not, move 1 tick back until he approves again.
6. If the rejected the first offer, move 4 ticks to the left and repeat until the offer is accepted.
7. Then move 2 ticks to the right. If he accepts, move to 5, if he rejects, move to 4.

This is not immersive, but a chore, but I guess I can imagine that it is possible to roleplay it if you don't try to get the best deal possible, but just make a educated guess and use that if the merchant accepts.


Posted by: S'lider Oct 20 2009, 10:14 AM

QUOTE (TheNiceOne @ Oct 20 2009, 04:50 AM)
Sorry, but the disabling of the haggle game is too integrated to be removed. It is just not that I have removed it, the way EE calculates barter prices is completely different than in the vanilla game (or Living Economy), which is why you can set the barter ranges to exactly what you want in EE (I play hardcore where I only got to sell values for 0-30% of the real value), and is also why I can have global economy factors affecting the barter prices. So if you really want the haggle game, EE isn't for you.

Well, before I got rid of the haggle slider, I would always do the following:
1. Set the haggle slider to what I though was about right.
2. Try to sell one of my cheapest items (normally one arrow)
3. If the merchant accepted, move the haggle slider 4 ticks to the right and repeat until he rejects my offer.
4. Then move 2 ticks back. If he rejects again, move 1 more tick back until he approves, then start bartering for real.
5. If he approved, then move one tick to the right. If he approves, start bartering for real, if not, move 1 tick back until he approves again.
6. If the rejected the first offer, move 4 ticks to the left and repeat until the offer is accepted.
7. Then move 2 ticks to the right. If he accepts, move to 5, if he rejects, move to 4.

This is not immersive, but a chore, but I guess I can imagine that it is possible to roleplay it if you don't try to get the best deal possible, but just make a educated guess and use that if the merchant accepts.



I had EE earmarked for installation the next time I do a full reinstall, probably in 2 or 3 months. Now I'm not so sure because I hadn't realised that the haggle slider was disabled in the mod. From an immersion point of view, generally things that make the game more lifelike should be encouraged, and I would expect merchants to be open to haggling. The problem is, as The Nice One points out, the way haggling is implemented is both annoying, and easy to circumvent.

This made me think about how I go about haggling in my game. I realised that I have unconsciously adopted a rule that I am only allowed two adjustments to the haggle slider per visit to a merchant. Get there, guess an appropriate percentage based on disposition and the merchant's level. Depending on what he or she does on the first transaction I then adjust again. This works quite well and encourages me to be cautious with my haggling. If I ask for too much I have to adjust downwards a long way or I may not be able to trade with the merchant at all. I use Cut Throat Merchants as well , so I quite frequently end up with bad bargains; but hey, I'm a simple adventurer, of course I'm going to get ripped off by those big city types!

Edit, typos


Posted by: StarX Oct 20 2009, 10:25 AM

QUOTE (TheNiceOne @ Oct 20 2009, 12:20 PM)
Sorry, but the disabling of the haggle game is too integrated to be removed. It is just not that I have removed it, the way EE calculates barter prices is completely different than in the vanilla game (or Living Economy), which is why you can set the barter ranges to exactly what you want in EE (I play hardcore where I only got to sell values for 0-30% of the real value), and is also why I can have global economy factors affecting the barter prices. So if you really want the haggle game, EE isn't for you.

Well, before I got rid of the haggle slider, I would always do the following:
1. Set the haggle slider to what I though was about right.
2. Try to sell one of my cheapest items (normally one arrow)
3. If the merchant accepted, move the haggle slider 4 ticks to the right and repeat until he rejects my offer.
4. Then move 2 ticks back. If he rejects again, move 1 more tick back until he approves, then start bartering for real.
5. If he approved, then move one tick to the right. If he approves, start bartering for real, if not, move 1 tick back until he approves again.
6. If the rejected the first offer, move 4 ticks to the left and repeat until the offer is accepted.
7. Then move 2 ticks to the right. If he accepts, move to 5, if he rejects, move to 4.

This is not immersive, but a chore, but I guess I can imagine that it is possible to roleplay it if you don't try to get the best deal possible, but just make a educated guess and use that if the merchant accepts.


Hey NiceOne,

I didn't say it's more immersive, I just like the haggling game now and than. And yeah, I know the mechanics behind it to get the best deal possible, but try to ignore it. Maybe an option would be to remove the merchant's merchantile skill level that's displayed (but that would be for another mod, as EE will not use the haggleslider as you said). My current char isn't that much of a barterer, so EE fits him fine for now.


Posted by: Mercer Meka Oct 20 2009, 06:44 PM

Thanks for the stories Delte. Keep 'em coming. smile.gif

A few months ago (in the last thread) some of us were discussing stuff about diseases. I mentioned a mod I had made for my self that made several changes to ingredients and a few asked if I could release it. At the time I had not completed it but I recently managed to do so. http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1046875&hl=
Just wanted to post here about it and let you guys decide if it adds to the immersion factor or not. smile.gif



Posted by: mdpeyrot Oct 20 2009, 08:16 PM

Mercer,
I use your mod and like it quite a bit. I usually play an assassin and have had to give up alchemy since it's just too much power to add to the already powerful stealth/archery combination. A good part of my mod searching and testing is trying to find a good combination of mods to make archery feel realistic without it being too overpowering. I rarely make it past level three before I decide to start over because I'm killing powerful creatures far too easily. Healing potions and poisons are just too easy to make. Your mod helps in that regard. It also removes the healing wortcraft for meat, which is another plus. It's a small heal, but it adds up, given how plentiful meat is. So plentiful that I've regretfully given up hunger mods. I've never run out of food for any significant amount of time, even with the less foods mod. Tummy growls, click, click. Whoop-de-doo.

Alchemy as it's currenty implemented has never made much sense to me - carting around an entire mad scientist lab in your pocket. I love At Home Alchemy. I'd like to see an Only At Home Alchemy where you could only use the stuff at the bench, not in the field. Maybe allow just the mortar and pestle at a greatly reduced efficiency. It would also be cool if the more advanced potions actually required the additional alchemy equipment to even make, rather than it just affecting potency. I imagine that would be a signifiacant amount of work tho.

Anyway, with your mod, I don't even bother trying to make potions anymore without Alchemy as a major skill. That's a good thing, IMO.






Posted by: FilthyNord Oct 20 2009, 08:38 PM

Another fan of this thread delurking. This thread has allowed me to make the game much more of what I wanted it to be. Realistic Fatigue, for example, has hugely increased my enjoyment and challenge, same with changing the timescale to 12 (works much better with thirst, hunger, sleep).

My immersion thoughts currently have to do with clothes. Clothes seem to function in every way except having to do with being warm or cold, wet or dry. You can wear furs in Leyawiin and nothing in Bruma. Doesn't seem to matter. Are there any clothing mods that take weather or region into account? Also, you can be in a tough fight and wreck your armor, but clothes seem to be indestructible. You are much better off having enchanted clothes instead of armor. Again, any mods that deal with this?



Posted by: mdpeyrot Oct 20 2009, 08:48 PM

I just added this one to my setup http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22653. It's supposed to change peoples' disposition to you depending on how you're dressed. I haven't tested it much yet other than to verify that it does add a bounty if a guard spots you wearing Dark Brotherhood armor.

The only thing I know of that added weather effects was a hypothermia mod done by the gone but not forgotten Duke Patrick. I believe it's no longer available for download.



Posted by: desertor Oct 20 2009, 09:59 PM

uups... Sorry, double post.



Posted by: desertor Oct 20 2009, 10:02 PM

This thread is in my opinion one of the most interesting of the forums. Let my say that I was tired of Oblivion some weeks afther to install it and then I saw this. Before, I was thinking in a new laptop with enough power to run Age of Conan, a game that I dreamed to play with. My poor old laptop has exploded one week ago and now, I cant wait for the new and more powerfull, but I have no intention to run AoC. I cant wait to install Oblivion with all this stuff and play it again. This is not a game, this is THE GAME.

I have seen in the thread some different points of view about INMMERSION and REALISM. I want to write mine: This thread is the foundation for the most impressive of the games. When you make a realistic game you will find a line afther wich you dont want to go, because afther this line, more realism will destroy playability. This line is subjective and everyone will put it in a place or other. If this line isnt anywhere you will finaly be cocking a meat for an hour or searching a tree for your impressive level 50 mage can defecate or you will not go to raids some days because your barbarian is ill and he must be in bed...

In my case the "subjective line" is somewhere with lots of realistics but also not complicated mods. I dont want everything affecting everything. I want just to feel that I need eat, sleep and I cant carry too much. In this sense, I dont like too much the idea of Fatigue affecting lots of atributes but I want everything (torches and gold included) with weight in a maner that my in my inventroy will be only the necesary. I dont know if it is some mod controlling not only weight but also volume. That could be simulate with an old system like DIABLO, where you had a graphical inventory and you could not carry more if you dont have more places. In this way, you will be more interested in pick little expensive things (money, gems) and you will forget about pick big things like two hands weapons or armors.

For Dealy Reflexes, I have no checked yet but I have the impression that is more realistic, more cinematic but also more easy to play with. I have the impression that the AI isnt not prepared for that and when some practice you will take advantage over the computer with a lot of incredible combat moves.

Well, this is, like I said my idea. In every case, please, keep this thread alive! wub.gif



Posted by: Delte Oct 20 2009, 10:20 PM

QUOTE (S'lider @ Oct 20 2009, 04:14 AM)
This made me think about how I go about haggling in my game. I realised that I have unconsciously adopted a rule that I am only allowed two adjustments to the haggle slider per visit to a merchant.



QUOTE (StarX @ Oct 20 2009, 04:25 AM)
Maybe an option would be to remove the merchant's merchantile skill level that's displayed (but that would be for another mod, as EE will not use the haggleslider as you said).



Hey...maybe you two have stumbled upon an idea for a neat little mod that would make the bargaining slider more immmerisve and more fun to play.

StarX, I know you're a modder. You custom made the torches with weight. What about making a quick and easy little mod that will remove the merchant's skill level from the slider?

Or, better yet, with S'lider's idea...what about limiting the number of adjustments the player gets based on his character's skill level and how much the NPC disposition towards him?

Maybe something like: Novice gets 2 adjustments. Journeyman gets 3. Expert gets 4. Master gets 5?

That would be interesting...and keep people from finding the exact sweetspot of bargaining so fast.

Thoughts?









QUOTE (desertor @ Oct 20 2009, 03:59 PM)
For Dealy Reflexes, I have no checked yet but I have the impression that is more realistic, more cinematic but also more easy to play with. I have the impression that the AI isnt not prepared for that and when some practice you will take advantage over the computer with a lot of incredible combat moves.


You said that better than I did. That's the exact reason I un-installed DR5. At first, it's a fun, cool, mod. But, just like with the bargaining slider in the vanilla game that we mention above, the player learns to use the advantages that DR gives him to unfairly sway combat in his favor.

For this reason, I got rid of DR5 and went back to the semi-modded version that OOO+MMM gives me (which is quite fun and hectic!).



Posted by: Destiny of an Emperor Oct 20 2009, 11:47 PM

what do you feel about open city - realism or no?
also what do you feel about partners? kind of like group quest, or do partners not act realistic?
(i see in ur loadlist but can u comment on what u think of it?)

one more, i read bout realistic physics and it seems like your style, did you try it yet?



Posted by: Bodevanlot Oct 21 2009, 01:26 AM

I've been using Open Cities lately and I think it's amazing. Cities are no longer separate from the rest of the world, they're a part of it. I would consider it a definite step towards realism, since obviously the cities are and should be a part of their environment, not an entity entirely independent of it.
Also, as far as Deadly Reflex, I often find enemies using it as actively as I do. This is partly because I play a mage, I know, so I can't effectively use some of the features, but I get shield-bashed, impaled, and dodged all the time. Sometimes my more agile foes dodge every one of my spells, forcing me to get close to them to even be able to hit them. A great example of an enemy using deadly reflex to his advantage: I was raiding a dungeon full of Sylvan Bosmers and was near the end of the ruin. I had taken down a few of them, and only had one left, so I figured I could ease up a little and let my summons fade. Him and me, I cast a burden spell to try to get in a few cheap hits while he's overencumbered, but he reflects the spell, and I find myself thrown to the ground under the weight. No big deal, I think, I'm still shielded, full health plus a buff. Then, much to my dismay, my enemy takes advantage of my vulnerability and plunges his sword into my chest, and I'm dead, just like that. I was pretty darn annoyed when it happened, but now that I think back on it, it was really cool. I got cocky, and then got punished for it. A similar instance happened earlier on in the ruin. It was me against a lone Sylvan mage, and I went for the shield bash knowing she was injured, trying to get myself a critical. Instead, she blocked back, I staggered, and before I could regain composure, she chained together four or five katana hits and I was down.
This was yesterday. I was inspired by this thread to go find a dungeon and get my hands dirty tongue.gif



Posted by: Delte Oct 21 2009, 01:31 AM

QUOTE (Destiny of an Emperor @ Oct 20 2009, 05:47 PM)
what do you feel about open city - realism or no?


Really like it. I think either way is realistic. Vanilla represents closely guarded gates (remember the early scene in Fellowship of the Ring where the Hobbits make it to the town at night and the guard checks 'em out?). Open Cities would mean no one watches the gates that closely, and anything and anybody could wander in. Both, I think, are immersive.

The reason I don't use Open Cities is a mechanical one: It conflicts with too many other mod that might otherwise modify the town. Remember that Delte's List mods are tested for quality, immersiveness and realism, and to see if they do, in fact, work well with the other mods on the list. Open Cities doesn't.

Good mod, though.

QUOTE
also what do you feel about partners? kind of like group quest, or do partners not act realistic?


I think partners are awesome. It's in my load list, at the moment, because of Knights of the White Stallion (although it's an earlier version of CM and kinda of buggy).

The one thing I think may become a problem with partners is that you can quickly unbalance the game. Form a big party, and you're indestructible.

Sometimes, things are very tough in the game, especially with OOO + MMM. When that happens, I think it's nice to be able to get some help.

Ruined Tail's Tale is another Companion Mod you should look at. It's excellent and will make it on my list in the future.





QUOTE
one more, i read bout realistic physics and it seems like your style, did you try it yet?


I tried it a long time ago. There were things I didn't like about it, so I dropped it.

I'd try it again, though, if it's been improved since then.



Posted by: Destiny of an Emperor Oct 21 2009, 01:49 AM

too bad about open cities does not work good with other mods
also what did u not like about realistic physics?

thanks



Posted by: Delte Oct 21 2009, 04:05 AM

QUOTE (Destiny of an Emperor @ Oct 20 2009, 07:49 PM)
also what did u not like about realistic physics?


Its been so long, I forgot! blush.gif I know it was discussed in one of the early Delte's Threads, though. If you're really, really interested, you can go searching for that discussion in the Delte's Thread Archives (link in Post #1). There, you'll find many people's opinion on it, not just mine.



Posted by: Delte Oct 21 2009, 07:40 AM

The Counties of Cyrodiil were uniting! Imperial guards working with troops provided by the territory's Counts, plus volunteers, like myself, from all over, partisans, adventurers, and those provided by the Mage's or Figther's Guild.

The Council in the Imperial City has set up a loose network of soldiers to combat the demons pouring in from the gates. Each county has a Captain in charge of coordination for that area. I met with the Captain at Cheydinhal. He made me a scout and had me move north from the city. There had been reports of daedra around Dragon's Rock.

I found them. And, since I'm not much of a sneaky scout, they found me, too. I barely got out of there with my skin. Four of 'em chased me halfway back to Cheydinhal.

When I arrived at the castle, I found that the Captain had been called away to support some Bruma troops. Fighting around a gate had gotten hairy.

On my white steed, I galloped to the battleground as fast as I could. When I arrived, I saw that we had won the day, but at a heavy cost. There were men in yellow Bruma armor lying all over the ground.

When I reported the daedra camp I'd found, the Captain would not wait. He was afraid of losing them--the daedra moving after learning that they had been discovered.

But, looking at the poor Bruma troops, the Captain knew we didn't have enough men. He sent a rider to nearby Chorrol for reinforcements. To my surprise, they arrived quickly. We only had time to sup and bind the survivor's wounds.

As the Chorrol guard approached, he gathered the remaining Bruma troops, and we were off.

Through the night, we marched. Although the Captain kept to the road, the trip was rugged and rough. The men were tired, and so was I.

The Captain would not budge, though. I saw the gleam in his eye--the far off stare. He was a patriot, and no demons would walk the lands of the kingdom he was sworn to protect even if it meant the death of us all.

By dawn, we reached the Jerall Mountains, north of Cheydinhal, by way of the trails from Bruma. On the side of a hill, we found the daedra, just where I'd first spotted them. The battle commenced. Lightning crackled in the air. Archers let loose their deadly pointed sticks. Swords clanged off shields, and worse, bit deep into men.

And, I was among them.

Men come to save their land from the foul creatures of another plane.

Men, who'd come to die.

Dead bodies rolled down the hill when they fell.

The battle was chaos.

In the end, two stood. Me and the Captain. All the daedra were dead. But, worse, so were the brave men from Chorrol and Bruma.

All dead.

What a heavy price to play...for freedom.

But worth it.

I feel strange making that remark, since I was one of the two who survived. I don't feel I have the right.

Even if I had fallen, though, it would have been worth it.

Long Live the Empire!









===================

This moment made possible by Enhanced Daedric Invasion - Link in Post#2.

The route taken moved north past Bruma, around Frost Crag, and down south out of the Jerall's, for our attack at Dragon's Rock, north of Cheydinhal.

There were about 12-15 of us--all of us pounding our way through the night (have timescale set to the default of 30, so days are pretty quick). We ran through a couple of bandit camps, and I'll tell you, those poor buggers didn't know what hit them. In the middle of the night, this torch bearing horde of King's men and patriots washing into the camp like a flood. Archers took their positions. The colored energy of magic flew through the air. Swords clanged against armor and bone.

None of the bandits were a match for us. They were outnumbered. The Imperial troops were too well trained.

Playing it was like actually being in Braveheart, except with magic. It was frantic! Harried! Fun!

Dragon's Rock was a blood bath. Dremora all over the place. Tough ones. Looking around after the last one fell in front of me, I found it strangely quiet. That's when I realized every one else was dead.

The Captain had been knocked unconscious (crowned character). I woke him, and we left for the original gate, were we spent the night.

I desperately needed sleep, but as I said, even as I closed my eyes, the gods would not grant me that precious peace.

On the backs of my eye lids, all I saw were men dying.

Good men, of Bruma, of Chorrol.

Men I barely knew, but also men I will never forget.



Posted by: TheNiceOne Oct 21 2009, 08:00 AM

QUOTE (Delte @ Oct 20 2009, 11:20 PM)
Hey...maybe you two have stumbled upon an idea for a neat little mod that would make the bargaining slider more immmerisve and more fun to play.
I agree, if the number of times you could adjust the slider for each merchant was restricted to 2 per day or so, the haggle slider would actually be an immersive game, instead of the boring mechanism I think it currently is. Restricting it this way isn't realistic, but will probably be much more immersive than the vanilla mechanism.

One note though: Oblivion is a RPG, and one of the characteristics of the genre is that the skills of the player character is supposed to be more important than the skills of the player. Now Oblivion is an action-oriented RPG where the player skills play quite a role too (which I like, as it makes the game more immersive), so it's not black and white, but still: In Oblivion, the player character has a mercantile skill. And the meaning of this skill is to portray how good the character is at haggling. With higher mercantile skills, you get higher prices because you haggle better. This is similar to other Oblivion skills, ex: a higher alchemy skill automatically gives you better potions. So even with the haggle slider completely removed, as in Enhanced Economy, you can really role play that you're getting better at haggling, because that is exactly what the improved mercantile skill means.


QUOTE
Or, better yet, with S'lider's idea...what about limiting the number of adjustments the player gets based on his character's skill level and how much the NPC disposition towards him?

Maybe something like: Novice gets 2 adjustments. Journeyman gets 3. Expert gets 4. Master gets 5?

That would be interesting...and keep people from finding the exact sweetspot of bargaining so fast.
I fully agree that something like this would make the haggle slider be more immersive. Personally, I don't think it's a very good idea to give more attempts as the skill gets higher, as that means double bonuses from the skill, both that the merchant accepts a higher haggle value and that you get more attempts to find it.


Posted by: Ayleid_people Oct 21 2009, 08:33 AM

QUOTE (TheNiceOne @ Oct 21 2009, 03:00 AM)
I agree, if the number of times you could adjust the slider for each merchant was restricted to 2 per day or so, the haggle slider would actually be an immersive game, instead of the boring mechanism I think it currently is. Restricting it this way isn't realistic, but will probably be much more immersive than the vanilla mechanism.

I find most of discussions involved here about hagglers in EE purely subjective. Everyone see realism on his own. When I played with Vanilla (or LE) I was always able to set manually the hagglers near the right place (except the time when I forget to do that). Personally I like the changes and features provided by EE.


Posted by: StarX Oct 21 2009, 02:44 PM

QUOTE (Delte @ Oct 21 2009, 12:50 AM)
Hey...maybe you two have stumbled upon an idea for a neat little mod that would make the bargaining slider more immmerisve and more fun to play.

StarX, I know you're a modder. You custom made the torches with weight. What about making a quick and easy little mod that will remove the merchant's skill level from the slider?

Or, better yet, with S'lider's idea...what about limiting the number of adjustments the player gets based on his character's skill level and how much the NPC disposition towards him?

Maybe something like: Novice gets 2 adjustments. Journeyman gets 3. Expert gets 4. Master gets 5?

That would be interesting...and keep people from finding the exact sweetspot of bargaining so fast.

Thoughts?

That would probably mean digging into the XML files (correct me if I'm wrong), which I'm not familiar with. And with my current projects stapling up I cannot take on another one, especially since I have no idea yet where to look for. Maybe one of the UI gurus might take a look at it. smile.gif




Posted by: HeyYou Oct 21 2009, 03:38 PM

I don't know if this has been brought up, or, if it is even the case any longer... but:

aaborsbedrolls: When I had this mod loaded, the scripts it added to bedrolls conflicted with bedrolls in jails. You could not click on the option to "serve your time", or, whatever it was, and you would just go into an endless loop. This could be solved by simply saving your game, unloading the mod, reloading the mod, and serving your time, re-enabling the mod. Quite the operation if you go to jail on a regular basis.....

Has this been fixed? Or, is it still an issue?



Posted by: Mercer Meka Oct 21 2009, 05:49 PM

QUOTE (mdpeyrot @ Oct 20 2009, 09:16 PM)
Mercer,
I use your mod and like it quite a bit. I usually play an assassin and have had to give up alchemy since it's just too much power to add to the already powerful stealth/archery combination. A good part of my mod searching and testing is trying to find a good combination of mods to make archery feel realistic without it being too overpowering. I rarely make it past level three before I decide to start over because I'm killing powerful creatures far too easily. Healing potions and poisons are just too easy to make. Your mod helps in that regard. It also removes the healing wortcraft for meat, which is another plus. It's a small heal, but it adds up, given how plentiful meat is. So plentiful that I've regretfully given up hunger mods. I've never run out of food for any significant amount of time, even with the less foods mod. Tummy growls, click, click. Whoop-de-doo.

Alchemy as it's currenty implemented has never made much sense to me - carting around an entire mad scientist lab in your pocket. I love At Home Alchemy. I'd like to see an Only At Home Alchemy where you could only use the stuff at the bench, not in the field. Maybe allow just the mortar and pestle at a greatly reduced efficiency. It would also be cool if the more advanced potions actually required the additional alchemy equipment to even make, rather than it just affecting potency. I imagine that would be a signifiacant amount of work tho.

Anyway, with your mod, I don't even bother trying to make potions anymore without Alchemy as a major skill. That's a good thing, IMO.


I'm glad to hear you're enjoying my mod and I agree to what you say about getting too powerful as stealthy archer. I use http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=25533 and I recommend it to everyone. It dies everything I've ever wanted from an archery mod.
I too don't bother with alchemy unless I choose it as major skill with my mod, just the way I planned it wink.gif


Posted by: mdpeyrot Oct 21 2009, 06:51 PM

Marksman Challenge - Yeap, I use that one too. I about have it dialed in just right. Still tweaking it. It sure makes archery duels a lot tougher. I also disable the crosshair so I have no artificial aiming aids. I used to use Duke Patrick's mods which required you to arch your arrows for long shots. Made it very challenging. Unfortunately, they're no longer available for download.



Posted by: Arkngt Oct 21 2009, 08:10 PM

QUOTE (Delte @ Oct 11 2009, 06:17 AM)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4666 This excellent mod will remove all those wooden doors you see providing entrances to the various caves and mines that dot the landscape of Cyrodiil. Now, you will see pitch black dark cave entrances--simple dark holes in the rock. There are two versions of the mod. One makes the door texture transparent, so that you can't see it. It's still there, though, and when you approach a cave, you activate it like you would if you could see the door. I don't use that version. What I like is the more immersive automatic version. As you approach the cave entrance (try to stay to your right), when you get close enough, you'll automatically enter the cave as if you had just walked in. No activation required. The same thing happens when you exit (try to stay to your left). Just approach the mouth of the cave and you will automatically exit. I give this mod my highest rating. It's superb.


Does this have black exits as well? http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/images/4666-1-1195415697.jpg but I'm not so sure about exiting via a "black hole".


Posted by: Delte Oct 21 2009, 10:18 PM

QUOTE (HeyYou @ Oct 21 2009, 09:38 AM)
I don't know if this has been brought up, or, if it is even the case any longer... but:

aaborsbedrolls: When I had this mod loaded, the scripts it added to bedrolls conflicted with bedrolls in jails. You could not click on the option to "serve your time", or, whatever it was, and you would just go into an endless loop. This could be solved by simply saving your game, unloading the mod, reloading the mod, and serving your time, re-enabling the mod. Quite the operation if you go to jail on a regular basis.....

Has this been fixed? Or, is it still an issue?


Yes, it's long been fixed. If the one I have on Post #2 isn't the fixed, you should be able to find it quickly. See the Descriptions on TESNexus.





QUOTE (Arkngt @ Oct 21 2009, 02:10 PM)
Does this have black exits as well? http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/images/4666-1-1195415697.jpg but I'm not so sure about exiting via a "black hole".


I think the exits look fine. Download it and try it. It shouldn't take that long to try out.



Posted by: richardrocket009 Oct 22 2009, 01:02 AM

I think you should add Kragenir's Death Quest to your list...with the S-load of quests it adds, it totally immerses the player.



Posted by: Delte Oct 22 2009, 02:38 AM

QUOTE (richardrocket009 @ Oct 21 2009, 07:02 PM)
I think you should add Kragenir's Death Quest to your list...with the S-load of quests it adds, it totally immerses the player.


Downloading Kragenirs Death Quest v. 1.06 right now. I'll check it out.

Here's a linky for anybody else who wants to try it: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=26219


Posted by: richardrocket009 Oct 22 2009, 02:52 AM

QUOTE (Delte @ Oct 21 2009, 06:38 PM)
Downloading Kragenirs Death Quest v. 1.06 right now. I'll check it out.

Here's a linky for anybody else who wants to try it: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=26219

Thank you for at least inspecting it. I am not lying...I am so immersed in it, I don't know if there is even an appropriate adjective in the English language!


Posted by: Delte Oct 23 2009, 03:56 AM

UNDERSTANDING FATIGUE

I think so many people are unhappy with fatigue, as presented in the game, simply because the stat was mis-named.

Fatigue, as it sits in vanilla Oblivion, really isn't fatigue as we normally think the word applies. Mods like ABO's Realisitic Fatigue attempt to model the stat in a fashion congruent with what people expect of "Fatigue".

In the vanilla game, though, it's really just a power limit. Your blows are modified by your fatigue. Full fatigue means you're hitting with your full force. Low fatigue means you're doing a fraction of what you can when you hit with your full force.

I think the stat should have been called something else--maybe "Power"--as it represents the "umph" you put behind your blows.

A person who gets tired just from being up too long is considered "fatigued", but, in the game, there is nothing that affects the stat for that cause.

Think of Magicka. It's a limit, really. Your total magical limits how many spells you can throw.

Likewise, all your fatigue does is limit how many power swings you can make.

Because it was named "fatigue", many people get confused by it or think Bethesda did a poor job of including it in the game. Had it been named "Power", or something like that, I doubt we would have had these issues.



Posted by: Yorp Oct 23 2009, 05:33 AM

QUOTE (Delte @ Oct 21 2009, 09:38 PM)
Downloading Kragenirs Death Quest v. 1.06 right now. I'll check it out.

Here's a linky for anybody else who wants to try it: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=26219

It's pretty good. The only problem I have with it is the main quest's storyline, which is a little cheesy (but I know it's on purpose! biggrin.gif), but I know other people will really enjoy that part of the mod. I mainly use it for the encounters in places like Blakenmarch and Pell's Gate.


Posted by: Delte Oct 23 2009, 02:34 PM

QUOTE (Yorp @ Oct 22 2009, 11:33 PM)
It's pretty good. The only problem I have with it is the main quest's storyline, which is a little cheesy (but I know it's on purpose! biggrin.gif)...


I was wondering about that. I haven't really started the mod yet, but the ghost visited me, and his dialogue was not very immersive at all. It was written in modern tongue vs. something with a fantasy medieval vibe. I'm a little disappointed right off the bat because of it.



OTOH, I've started the hidden OOO paladin quest. Wow! One will truly prove his worth to the nine getting through this thing. And, it's a big boy quest. No map markers or anything to help you out. The quest doesn't even record the things you need to know in your quest log. You've got to read the book and pay attention, or you'll never complete the quest.

Finding the locations is how most quests in this game should be. Except, it would be neat if we would ask directions from the locals.

Even without that, though, I like having to scout around and find the places where I need to go. For example, I know from the book that Lost Boy Cavern is in the east--I just don't know where in the east. I've got to scout and find it. "East" is a big direction--lots of ground to cover. The Ruins if Bawn and Lipsand Tarn, also places I need to find...and I have no idea where to find those.

But, that's part of the "test" of being the Nine's paladin, isn't it?


Posted by: bg2408 Oct 23 2009, 03:59 PM

Now that a couple of quest mods are finally getting the attention they deserve, any plans to ever test "Integration: The Stranded Light"?

No? Alright, I'll go back into my corner 1346.gif.



Posted by: StarX Oct 23 2009, 04:15 PM

QUOTE (bg2408 @ Oct 23 2009, 06:29 PM)
Now that a couple of quest mods are finally getting the attention they deserve, any plans to ever test "Integration: The Stranded Light"?

No? Alright, I'll go back into my corner 1346.gif.


"Craps BG by one of his ears and drags him out of the corner."

All your mods are fabulous, man. They are always in my mod list! And I recommend Integration: The Stranded Light to any selfrespecting quester out there! foodndrink.gif


Posted by: Delte Oct 23 2009, 05:38 PM

QUOTE (bg2408 @ Oct 23 2009, 09:59 AM)
Now that a couple of quest mods are finally getting the attention they deserve, any plans to ever test "Integration: The Stranded Light"?

No? Alright, I'll go back into my corner 1346.gif.


LOL! 799.gif

Heck man, I'm 150+ hours into this game with this character, can I can't even finish the official quests!

I went to go download your mod for testing...but it requires LAME and some race balancing mod? I wanted to try the quest, but I'm not sure I want the other mods to do it!

No way around that, huh?





QUOTE (StarX @ Oct 23 2009, 10:15 AM)
"Craps BG by one of his ears and drags him out of the corner."


Star...um...please don't crap on BG. BG's a good guy. Hate to see him crapped on. facepalm.gif



Posted by: TheNiceOne Oct 23 2009, 05:48 PM

QUOTE (Delte @ Oct 23 2009, 06:38 PM)
I went to go download your mod for testing...but it requires LAME and some race balancing mod? I wanted to try the quest, but I'm not sure I want the other mods to do it!

No way around that, huh?
No, but it's worth it. I hesitated a bit due to the requirements myself, but ended up writing omod installers for both LAME and RBP to easy the installation. So if you're interested, installing using those installers make it easy to get the setup correct smile.gif



Posted by: StarX Oct 23 2009, 06:15 PM

QUOTE (Delte @ Oct 23 2009, 08:08 PM)
Star...um...please don't crap on BG. BG's a good guy. Hate to see him crapped on. facepalm.gif


Holy crap! ahhh.gif I meant to say grab of course! 24.gif

Damn, the flu must have affected my brain functionality! Thanks Jansen!


Posted by: jansen Oct 23 2009, 06:53 PM

Hmmm... make that "grab" and you'll be settled...

grap is certainly a nice word though.
And please don't take it bad, but this has got be one of the funniest posts ever! Almost Monty Pythonesque. (I love puns).



Posted by: desertor Oct 23 2009, 10:08 PM

QUOTE (Delte @ Oct 21 2009, 02:31 AM)
I think partners are awesome. It's in my load list, at the moment, because of Knights of the White Stallion (although it's an earlier version of CM and kinda of buggy).

The one thing I think may become a problem with partners is that you can quickly unbalance the game. Form a big party, and you're indestructible.

Sometimes, things are very tough in the game, especially with OOO + MMM. When that happens, I think it's nice to be able to get some help.



Im looking over cm partners and it seem interesting. It is possible to install it without the near 70 new NPC around the world? I mean, install the base mod with no NPC and create or add just one erasing the possibility of call to yihad first time you find somebody stronger than you.



Posted by: Delte Oct 24 2009, 05:49 AM

Hey guys,

I use Natual Environments, and a bug has appeared. I believe I remember this bug happening before--but there was a fix--when I played my last character. NE works for for a hundred hours or so, then, what happens, is that the weather changes every time you open your inventory, a chest, or go from inside to outside.

There was a simple fix for it, I remember, but, for the life of me, I can't remember what it was.

Anybody remember?



Posted by: Yorp Oct 24 2009, 06:03 AM

I love bg's mods. Besides FCOM, they're the only mods I consider truly essential to my game. I love seeing different kinds of Khajiit in dungeons, and I love all the side quests you can do while hunting around for more important things. Just recently, I was looking for some random object for some random quest when I came upon a Khajiit named Karizzy (sp). I tried taking her out in the dungeon, but she was a few times stronger than any of the other conjurers in the cave, so I had to run. Earlier today, I was in Border Watch doing a quest when I happened upon the same Khajiit I met in the dungeon. She was just reading a book in the local inn. When I talked to her, she acted as if she was the nicest cat-woman in the world, but I knew better. tongue.gif
Stuff like that's really good for immersion, and with bg's mods, stuff like that happens a lot. Plus, you get teleport spells with LAME, so you can play without fast travel and not have to spend seven hours walking from Bruma to Leyawiin.



Posted by: _earthling_ Oct 24 2009, 06:22 AM

I'm not sure about the fix but you might consider trying http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1046742. It would replace Natural Weather but can be used with the other components of Natural Environments. Also, I can recommend http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=885108&hl=, especially if you have a dedicated sound card. smile.gif I came back to OB earlier this year and, after using Natural Environments in the past, was pleasantly surprised by AN!

Another newer mod I would recommend is http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=23064. Makes the surface look incredible and has no blue tint underneath.

I really value outdoor immersion... your suggestions are (slowly) inspiring me to dabble in the other immersive possibilities mods have to offer! twirl.gif



Posted by: ABO Oct 24 2009, 08:00 AM

QUOTE (Delte @ Oct 23 2009, 11:49 PM)
I use Natual Environments, and a bug has appeared. I believe I remember this bug happening before--but there was a fix--when I played my last character. NE works for for a hundred hours or so, then, what happens, is that the weather changes every time you open your inventory, a chest, or go from inside to outside.

There was a simple fix for it, I remember, but, for the life of me, I can't remember what it was.

Anybody remember?

In my http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=12801 there is an OMOD for NaturalEnvironments v2.1.4, which is v2.1.3 with the Natural Weather Unoffical Patch applied. It also includes an OMOD install script. I also recommend the http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8711 which is also OMOD ready and fully compatible with NE.



Posted by: Delte Oct 25 2009, 01:55 AM

QUOTE (desertor @ Oct 23 2009, 04:08 PM)
Im looking over cm partners and it seem interesting. It is possible to install it without the near 70 new NPC around the world? I mean, install the base mod with no NPC and create or add just one erasing the possibility of call to yihad first time you find somebody stronger than you.




Two more mods just made "The List", and I updated Post #2. CM Partners is one of them. (Universal Silent Voice is the other.)

Yes, the extra NPCs do take their fps toll. I recommend not installing that extra esp. You can go with just the original 9 NPC the basic mod comes with. That's what I did. If you get the OMOD version, as you install, it will ask you if you want the extra NPCs loaded. Just select "No".



Posted by: desertor Oct 25 2009, 04:33 AM

QUOTE (Delte @ Oct 25 2009, 01:55 AM)
Two more mods just made "The List", and I updated Post #2. CM Partners is one of them. (Universal Silent Voice is the other.)

Yes, the extra NPCs do take their fps toll. I recommend not installing that extra esp. You can go with just the original 9 NPC the basic mod comes with. That's what I did. If you get the OMOD version, as you install, it will ask you if you want the extra NPCs loaded. Just select "No".



Cool. Here are some nice companions if someone is interested in download some special character. Most of them need to install more mods, but there are some "ready to go" really easy to install.
http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=OblivionMods.Detail&id=3099

There is another useful link for improve their look.
http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=990612&hl=eyecandy+variants+expansion


About Daedric invasion:
Can you post a copy-paste with your configuration? (If there is a script or a .ini for that).


Posted by: Delte Oct 25 2009, 04:47 AM

QUOTE (desertor @ Oct 24 2009, 10:33 PM)
About Daedric invasion:
Can you post a copy-paste with your configuration? (If there is a script or a .ini for that).


There's no ini. It's an in-game menu. I selected no daedra inside the cities, and no daedra attacking the cities. I found that NPCs get slaughtered even if you allow only one or two daedra to attack. For certain quests, you need those NPCs. For example, for the thieves guild quests, the beggars are very important. Or, you may lose some vendor in a town and never have access to that vendor again (which I'd be OK with if the town's guard showed up in full force--they don't. Just the ones "on duty" at the time. You'd think all the others would come running. I figure we see about one third of a cities forces at any one time).

I put the likely hood of the good guys spawning at around 25% or so, inside or outside the gates, and I set the good guys fairly high in number. 4-12, or something like that. For immersion, this explains why the daedra aren't more active than they are--they're bottled up at the gates.





Just escaped from Lipsand Tarn.

SonOfABEECH!!! My gods! I was doing OK until about half way through. That's just incredible. I've got to be much stronger in order to finish that.

I got what I went in there for, but, sheesh, at the end, it was a mad dash, throwing healing spells the entire way--the quarterback making a run for the goal. If I didn't have Divine Intervention to pop back to Chorrol, I'd be a goner.

As they use to say in Baldur's Gate: It's a den of STINKING EVIL!

I'm going to go back in there at some time and finish them off, the sons of [censored]-dogs.





EDIT: Added two more mods to "The List", as well.


Posted by: Delte Oct 27 2009, 04:41 AM

Lvl 23, and a fairly tough dude for OOO + MMM, my toon, Ryse, cannot take out a Balrog.

If they're supposed to be feared, then I get the point.

But, put one outside a gate, and it kills everything. EVERYTHING.

Give it some help, like some reavers, and it kills EVERYTHING even faster.

How do I kill this thing?

Or, do I just walk away, the paladin who pledged to help the weak and serve the Nine....

"Yep. I can't kill it. Good luck, boys. See ya in Bravil."

Thoughts on killing this thing?

It fought all night. I ran and finally had to use Divine Intervention to get out of there alive. Next morning, it's in the same place, hacking away at some Chorrol guards. I tried to help them, and it...KILLED EVERYTHING.

What does Ryse do?



Posted by: _earthling_ Oct 27 2009, 05:58 AM

QUOTE (Delte @ Oct 26 2009, 11:41 PM)
Lvl 23, and a fairly tough dude for OOO + MMM, my toon, Ryse, cannot take out a Balrog.
...
Or, do I just walk away, the paladin who pledged to help the weak and serve the Nine....
...
What does Ryse do?

Heroically lead it away from civilization and then escape!

Seriously, I have a tough time killing Lesser Balrogs (have yet to encounter plain Balrogs or shudder any tougher varieties) at lvl 35 as a master of blade, heavy armor, block (almost... ~95 skill), alteration and mysticism (using Supreme Magicka) + master lvl eq. They have tons of hps and hit hard. Cold damage will help as will a powerful Burden (200+) spell/potion. I have killed over a dozen of them, including 3 at once! (involved lots of running around using the environment and healing), and it is a battle of attrition always.

Good luck! smile.gif




Posted by: Delte Oct 27 2009, 07:07 AM

QUOTE (_earthling_ @ Oct 26 2009, 11:58 PM)
Heroically lead it away from civilization and then escape!

Seriously, I have a tough time killing Lesser Balrogs (have yet to encounter plain Balrogs or shudder any tougher varieties) at lvl 35 as a master of blade, heavy armor, block (almost... ~95 skill), alteration and mysticism (using Supreme Magicka) + master lvl eq. They have tons of hps and hit hard. Cold damage will help as will a powerful Burden (200+) spell/potion. I have killed over a dozen of them, including 3 at once! (involved lots of running around using the environment and healing), and it is a battle of attrition always.

Good luck! smile.gif



Oh, it was a Lesser Balrog.

I'm a role player, so I couldn't just leave it. The doggone thing fought all night and all day. I heard the Chorrol guards on the battlements betting on how long the thing would stay 799.gif .

So, I waded in, fought the beast with everything I had. To my amazement, it dropped! I killed my first Lesser Balrog!

And, I've got a firery sword to display at Castle Battlehorn.


Posted by: Psymon Oct 27 2009, 07:14 AM

They have a weakness - they don't like cold or is it shock - pretty sure cold

But I've killed about 5 of them with unenchanted bow and arrow and Duke Patrick Archery.

I personally dropped Battlehorn like a hot potato after 'earning' it - talk about lack of immersion. As a suggestion - Hoarfrost castle - the best I've used so far hands down - and a long quest to get it.



Posted by: _earthling_ Oct 27 2009, 01:56 PM

Yeah, I don't like the thought of running either and am lucky not to have had to yet... but I can certainly imagine a scenario, whether realistic/fantasy roleplaying, in which the best option is to run and fight another day. ahhh.gif If while running it's possible to lure the evil menace away from innocents (if you a goody!) then all the better. angel.gif Congrats to Ryse for besting it!

Curious... if you had encountered the Balrog at lvl 5 would you have sought to remove them from your game or dealt with it by making a strategic and heroic retreat? Not sure if that's actually possible but I encountered my first Balrog at ~lvl 15, outside a cave near the road between Skingrad and Kvatch... very tough, but my hard head prevented me from running and, eventually and with the help of some other monsters (and one of Adonnay's weapons), I slew it. A high point in my return to OB!



Posted by: Delte Oct 27 2009, 02:59 PM

QUOTE (_earthling_ @ Oct 27 2009, 07:56 AM)
Curious... if you had encountered the Balrog at lvl 5 would you have sought to remove them from your game or dealt with it by making a strategic and heroic retreat? Not sure if that's actually possible but I encountered my first Balrog at ~lvl 15, outside a cave near the road between Skingrad and Kvatch... very tough, but my hard head prevented me from running and, eventually and with the help of some other monsters (and one of Adonnay's weapons), I slew it. A high point in my return to OB!


I think Ryse was around lvl 15 or so when he first found a Lesser Balrog. There were two of them--TWO OF THEM--working in tandem inside an Oblivion Gate. Ryse out ran them, and they died in the lava. Had to use the environment against them.

The one above is the first I've seen outside a gate. With stuff like that coming out of the gate, I'm glad I've got EDI running to put up the troops to combat it.


Posted by: desertor Oct 27 2009, 11:47 PM

Well. Afther some weeks of hard search, read and study, I have now, for first time, a complete mini list of around 30 mods for install and see what happens and, more important, I have a clear idea of WHAT I want (The only thing I dont have still is my fuc*ø#g new laptop but is matter of days). I will install a "basic pack" of the list with some particular aditions like Oblivion XP, without quests and without new buildings because I didnt play too much Oblivion and it is yet a new game for me and because I want to be able to identify possible problems before to add more stuff.

I want to say THANK YOU to Delte and rest of people here shooting alternatives and opinions. Between so many lists, so many mods and so many choices, is really difficult to have a clear idea of what exactly you want and is easy to be "enchanted" every time you read the description of a new random link so finally you have some hundred of mods and an strange final game. This thread is allways coherent: You take Darker dungeons or Let there be darkness, Enhanced wheater or All Natural, but still coherent so is not only a Inmmersion thread, is a "game sense thread", very usefull for new players.

Time to rock and roll!!! buttrock.gif comp26.gif sterb032.gif mad_nuke_small.gif


Edit: Im not convinced with the idea of cm partners. It can be a big unbalanced help having 9 companions doing everything you want at once. I dont find either inmmersive that 9 adventurers you randomly found around Cyrodil do everything you say like a perfectly trainned comando. I find inmersive only for the "white stallion" quest as you became a captain of a true company of soldiers. cm partners seem to be designed for easily manage groups of companions as older "no cm partners" companions could bother you atacking when you have no intention, waiting in a place when you automatically want they at your side or other not intended behaviour. I prefer be bothered and that others dont do exactly what I want, as in real life.



Posted by: Delte Oct 28 2009, 01:06 AM

QUOTE (desertor @ Oct 27 2009, 05:47 PM)
Im not convinced with the idea of cm partners. It can be a big unbalanced help having 9 companions doing everything you want at once.


Agreed. I think CM Partners can be quite unbalacing.

I haven't used any partners yet. I may remove the mod, but I like Knights of the White Stallion (although I will admit the mod needs some work and is a tad below the professionalism I usually require for The List).



QUOTE
I find inmersive only for the "white stallion" quest as you became a captain of a true company of soldiers.


Yep, in fact, the only time I've used the partners are the White Stallion companions, and that only once or twice.

I'll have to think about removing the mod from the list. You've made good points.



Posted by: Delte Oct 28 2009, 06:52 AM

Updates to "The List"...

I removed CM Partners. I never used it (except with the KotWS mod, and then only few times), and I've come to feel it's too powerful a mod that can potentially unbalance the game. So, it's gone.

I also removed Knights of the White Stallion. I enjoyed this mod. I played it. But, it's just not up to the "standards" I want to set for the mods that go on my list. I know that sounds "uppity" and "snooty"--but what I want is the best of the best. This mod is a great idea that just needs little more work. It's a little buggy, a little unpolished.

Of course, I'm a role player, and I did play the mod. So, I've got to make it "fit" in my game. What I've decided is that the Knights have pretty much wiped out the Black Bow Bandits (you do that with the mod's story). The remnants, though, burned down the Knight's lodge (the nice house the mod provides), and a shack was thrown up in its place (the vanilla lodge). The Knights of the White Stallion were disbanded by the Count of Leyawiin. They were created to fight the Black Bow Bandits, and the job is done. But, the Order was revoked? Maybe that had to do with Ryse, my toon, the Knight's Captain of the Order, having snuck into the castle and thrown a certain spell that made a certain dinner party with many noble guests become naked (a daedric shrine quest). No fuss was made, and Ryse wasn't publicly stripped of his title. But, the Count did disband the Knights.

Mazoga insisted on carrying on, so she found the money to put up the shack, and it's she who continues, alone, even though the Order is defunct.

Yeah...I know. Geez. What can I say? I'm a role player!



Another thing about the List. I updated the Natural Environments info with a link to ABO's mod collection where he presents the updated version of the mod.



Posted by: Psymon Oct 28 2009, 07:05 AM

Wow giant spoiler there. That was one I wish I did not even see at all.

And still Natural Environments over All Natural? I dunno. You do know that with Natural Environments you cant use other sky replacers right? With NE integrated into AN they corrected that now you can add all the other stars, moons, beaming sunglares you want.



Posted by: Delte Oct 28 2009, 07:24 AM

QUOTE (Psymon @ Oct 28 2009, 01:05 AM)
Wow giant spoiler there. That was one I wish I did not even see at all.


Crap! I try to be very careful about that...but, what's the giant spoiler? I went back and read it, and I don't see what you mean. The daedric quest tells you that's what you're going to do when you accept the quest. I thought everything about Knights of the White Stallion that I spoke of was obvious (there are some twists in the story that are very cool...but I didn't say anything about them).

So, what did I spoil for you?


QUOTE
And still Natural Environments over All Natural? I dunno. You do know that with Natural Environments you cant use other sky replacers right? With NE integrated into AN they corrected that now you can add all the other stars, moons, beaming sunglares you want.


I'll try All Natural. I've just been in love with NE for a long, long time. I should give All Natural a try, though, I guess.



Posted by: Ragnalin The Thief Oct 28 2009, 07:44 AM

Hey Delta I don't think you have http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3764 mod on your list. It is really awesome adds a huge amount to immersion. It's modular: I only use the "loading area" remover.



Posted by: Psymon Oct 28 2009, 07:51 AM

I've never finished that quest - there are a few of us who have not exhausted every vanilla quest. I have the updated (and rarer Knights called Feudal Empire 300, but I've only scratched the surface - it is not reliant on CM partners too).

AN is really solid - I have a feeling you will like hearing rain indoors, The weather cycling, The SI support, The Darker Nights which you can tweak via ini, and the Real Lights portion of the mod is updated and squeaky clean compared to Joseph K's version. Incredibly immersive feel to the game with AN loaded, but may not be for everyone. You will still see all the weather types from NE (along with EW and AWS).

And I know you are more into Darker Dungeons that Let there be Darkness - but you can only use the Nehrunes Razor and SI components of LtbD to get those areas covered too.



Posted by: Delte Oct 28 2009, 08:22 AM

QUOTE (Ragnalin The Thief @ Oct 28 2009, 01:44 AM)
Hey Delta I don't think you have http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3764 mod on your list. It is really awesome adds a huge amount to immersion. It's modular: I only use the "loading area" remover.


I use something similar. It's on my list.





QUOTE (Psymon @ Oct 28 2009, 01:51 AM)
I've never finished that quest - there are a few of us who have not exhausted every vanilla quest.


Which quest? The Knights or the daedric quest? Again, I hate spoilers, so I do apologize if I spoiled something for you. OTOH, I don't see anything that I could have spoiled.

I haven't touched a lot of the vanilla quests, btw.

QUOTE
I have the updated (and rarer Knights called Feudal Empire 300, but I've only scratched the surface - it is not reliant on CM partners too).


Hmm...on TesNexus. It looks like the exact same thing as KotWS, but maybe a more cleaned up version? I may check it out.


Posted by: J.O.D. Oct 28 2009, 08:28 AM

QUOTE (Delte @ Oct 28 2009, 07:24 AM)
I'll try All Natural. I've just been in love with NE for a long, long time. I should give All Natural a try, though, I guess.

BTW, you can use only NE weathers in All Natural, if you want so. And Natural habitat can still be used. However, I can't turn All Natural off now, because being able to see through the windows, together with Real Lights effects, makes this game just fantastic experience for me.

EDIT: Not to forget dark nights (80 % makes it realy spooky) - luckily, with Drop Lit Torches OBSE version I can set my torch to shine with a radius which I want (and make it weight something as well).


Posted by: Psymon Oct 28 2009, 09:16 AM

No the Feudal Empire 300 on nexus is not the updated version of KotWS - that is why it is rare. She(?) dropped it after updating the uniforms and upgrading Knights into it - then disappeared. She wanted it to be the start of creating a more feudal environment in tamrial. Oh well. Still cant clean the mod with edit - but it so far has not given much grief. I don't have DL link anymore.

Yeah AN has completely swallowed up Natrual Weather - but I still use Natural Environments (the one with the bugs and birds). There is nothing NW did that AN doesn't do 10x better.

And of course to compliment An there is Storms and Sounds OBSE: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8711 which is actually what does the weather sounds and inside part to compliment the AN natural interiors portion.

Then really this set of storm sounds: http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=OblivionMods.Detail&id=4400 is the best I've heard and I put this in after AN and the above mod. With these you can hear how the vanilla and other weather overhaul wounds are muddy in comparison - you can hear individual raindrops with this.



Posted by: desertor Oct 28 2009, 11:08 AM

QUOTE (Psymon @ Oct 28 2009, 07:05 AM)
Wow giant spoiler there. That was one I wish I did not even see at all.

And still Natural Environments over All Natural? I dunno. You do know that with Natural Environments you cant use other sky replacers right? With NE integrated into AN they corrected that now you can add all the other stars, moons, beaming sunglares you want.



In my case, there is no choice here. All Natural needs OBSE 18; OBSE 18 doesnt work with Steam; I have Steam version of OGOTY, so...


Posted by: wrinklyninja Oct 28 2009, 11:25 AM

I know OBSE v17b works with Steam, so I would have thought that v18 betas would too, unless they add the Steam compatibility when they go final. Have you tried loading it?



Posted by: desertor Oct 28 2009, 11:54 AM

QUOTE (wrinklyninja @ Oct 28 2009, 11:25 AM)
I know OBSE v17b works with Steam, so I would have thought that v18 betas would too, unless they add the Steam compatibility when they go final. Have you tried loading it?


Im waiting a new laptop so, no, I havent tried yet but this is stated in the OBSE official page:

OBSE provides official support for:
Oblivion & Shivering Isles build 1.2.0.416. This is the latest official build of Oblivion. It provides fixes for the FormID problems and supports Shivering Isles. All users will need to update to this build in order to use OBSE v0017 and later.
Steam build 1.2.0.416 (in v0017b)

It says that it work with v0017b but it didnt work for me and for other player having steam until we installed this exe.
http://cxzcxz.com/blog/getting-obse-working-with-steam-oblivion/

I extract below the answer of the other player explaining this btter than me (he have better english).

QUOTE
desertor, that worked!

It's interesting because the official instructions for the Steam version say you do NOT need to install the obse_loader.exe; there is instead an obse_loader.dll that you just need to have with some other .dlls.

So the official istructions should be updated and this obse_loader you linked to should be part of the official release



Posted by: ogami_ito Oct 28 2009, 12:02 PM

I've been thinking of using TIE instead of OOO... only because supposedly lighter sys req. I think a lot of comments have said its even more realistic than OOO. That so?



Posted by: TheNiceOne Oct 28 2009, 12:33 PM

QUOTE (desertor @ Oct 28 2009, 11:54 AM)
Im waiting a new laptop so, no, I havent tried yet but this is stated in the OBSE official page:

OBSE provides official support for:
Oblivion & Shivering Isles build 1.2.0.416. This is the latest official build of Oblivion. It provides fixes for the FormID problems and supports Shivering Isles. All users will need to update to this build in order to use OBSE v0017 and later.
Steam build 1.2.0.416 (in v0017b)

It of course says that OBSE provides official support for v17b because that is the last official version. 18b5 is only a beta, but it still comes with the steam loader dll, and I cannot imagine they would add this dll if it couldn't be used. So go ahead and try 18b5 with Steam.


Posted by: Delte Oct 28 2009, 02:55 PM

QUOTE (ogami_ito @ Oct 28 2009, 06:02 AM)
I've been thinking of using TIE instead of OOO... only because supposedly lighter sys req. I think a lot of comments have said its even more realistic than OOO. That so?


Haven't played TIE because I understand it's geared to only one type of character, a thief. I can tell you that OOO is very realistic and immersive. It's amazing. It deserves all the applause it's gotten.


Posted by: Delte Oct 28 2009, 03:04 PM

QUOTE (Psymon @ Oct 28 2009, 03:16 AM)
And of course to compliment An there is Storms and Sounds OBSE: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8711 which is actually what does the weather sounds and inside part to compliment the AN natural interiors portion.


I tried this when ABO recommended it upthread...and I had a problem with it. A rain storm started in my game, and the thunder crashes started. But, they were so loud that they were "blown out", sounding like they were played through blown speakers (and I have Klipsch speakers, Triton headphones, and an X-Fi sound card, all THX certified). Plus, the thunder, it seemed to me, was very repetitive--the exact same sound over and over and very close together.

I happen to really like the heavy storm sounds I hear with NE (or maybe it's vanilla--I dunno if NE changes it). The thunder will blow you out of your seat without sounding as if it were coming through blown speakers, and the thunders sounds are different--not all the same. I've been in some storms in the game that sound like parts of Hurricane Ike that I lived through not so long ago.

Maybe Storms and Sounds needs some adjustment for my system, and maybe I need to give it a longer test. But, from what I've seen so far, I'm "just not hearing it".



Posted by: Blaise Oct 28 2009, 08:22 PM

I have read many good things about All Natural too. But what keeps me from trying it is that it is dependant on Wyre Bash. That program (and I am NO dummy!!!) is just too much for me to take the time to figure out. I have only been playing Oblivion for a few months, so I want to be playing the game not trying to figure out what a bashed patch is and how to install by Bain. Despite all that I have read about bashed patches no one has really said what it is! What does it bash? What does it patch? What is the point?I love OBMM. It is easy and with BOSS, both suits my needs. NE is easy to install and makes the game very beautiful to my virgin eyes.

:-)



Posted by: gothemasticator Oct 28 2009, 08:34 PM

QUOTE (Blaise @ Oct 28 2009, 03:22 PM)
...Despite all that I have read about bashed patches no one has really said what it is! What does it bash? What does it patch? What is the point?

First, many people have said what the bashed is and does.

The bashed patch merges aspects of mods. In a situation where two mods make changes to leveled lists, for example, without merging, the mods loaded last would simply overwrite the previous one and you would miss out on many of the reasons why you installed that mod to begin with. The bashed patch imports changes from both mods, so that the changes you desire from both mods are preserved.

OBMM has no such feature. It is wonderfully easy to use for installing/uninstalling mods, but it can't help you with overwriting issues.

gothemasticator


Posted by: _earthling_ Oct 28 2009, 08:43 PM

Just to add to the above, a Bashed Patch is itself a .esp file- the same kind of file that is used by many mods. And AFAIK "bash" is just a term that Wrye came up with... sounds good to me!



Posted by: Blaise Oct 28 2009, 09:14 PM

gothemasticator, thank you for the clear explanation. The first one I have read. And remember, just because I have not found (and I even googled) a response that I understood does not mean I have not looked. Just because "many people" have said what it is does not mean I would have run into those "many people's" sayings (or understood them at the time as a new player)! I appreciate your response though, very, very much, even if the first line was lacking a smidge in courtesy and gracefulness.

Thanks again!

Thanks to earthling as well!



Posted by: desertor Oct 28 2009, 09:23 PM

QUOTE (TheNiceOne @ Oct 28 2009, 12:33 PM)
It of course says that OBSE provides official support for v17b because that is the last official version. 18b5 is only a beta, but it still comes with the steam loader dll, and I cannot imagine they would add this dll if it couldn't be used. So go ahead and try 18b5 with Steam.


Thank you, I will try it, but I havent many hopes. You`re right about the description. The fact is that I installed that dll from V17b and it didnt work. I did everything like stated in the readme and nothing. The steeps for install the dll are really easy and I found other people not being capable of run it. I fuound finally that .exe linked in the post above and then V17b worked. Maybe the dll from V17b doesnt work and new one in V18 is right so I will try. I belong to an strange and minoritaire race called STEAM.



Posted by: gothemasticator Oct 28 2009, 09:30 PM

@Blaise,

Your statement: "...Despite all that I have read about bashed patches no one has really said what it is! What does it bash? What does it patch? What is the point?"

Mine: "First, many people have said what the bashed is and does."

Now, which comes off as "lacking a smidge in courtesy and gracefulness?" wink.gif

Also, let's all take the Wrye Bash discussion somewhere else and let Delte have his thread back, shall we?

gothemasticator



Posted by: phoenix1213 Oct 29 2009, 02:53 AM

QUOTE (Delte @ Oct 10 2009, 09:17 PM)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=26219 I've never put a mod on the list before without playing it through. But, this one is impressive with just the little things it does. I reserve the right to take it off the list later, but, for now, it's a good addition to the game. It adds a lot of "life" to the NPCs in the world by giving them a lot more to talk about. Plus, there are a bunch (and, I mean A BUNCH) of small quests you can get involved in. So far, this is a damn intriguing quest mod.
With all due respect to Povuholo, and his mod.... KDQ should be far, far away from any immersion list. With allusions to using the Internet, and CS; characters from Disney movies; rumors relating to game weirdness; and other really unimmersive things... it just doesn't make sense.


Posted by: bg2408 Oct 29 2009, 05:43 AM

QUOTE (StarX @ Oct 23 2009, 04:15 PM)
"Craps BG by one of his ears and drags him out of the corner."
ooo.gif ahhh.gif

QUOTE
All your mods are fabulous, man. They are always in my mod list! And I recommend Integration: The Stranded Light to any selfrespecting quester out there! foodndrink.gif
Many thanks smile.gif. Though to be honest it was more of an inside joke.

Through the years a lot of my mods were mentioned (e.g. by madmole, darina, and other people who unfortunately gone missing), even with some discussions in this very thread line that led to improvements in them, none of them were ever "officially" tested biggrin.gif.


QUOTE (StarX @ Oct 23 2009, 06:15 PM)
Damn, the flu must have affected my brain functionality! Thanks Jansen!
Hope you'll get better soon!


QUOTE (Yorp @ Oct 24 2009, 06:03 AM)
I love bg's mods.[snip]
Many thanks!

Regarding TIE vs. OOO I'd like to throw in my two random currency units:
- hardware hunger: It's a bit system dependent. OOO requires more system RAM (due to adding new resources), while TIE (due to adding a lot more NPCs) requires more power from the GPU. If you've got 1 GB RAM (Win XP) / 1,5 GB RAM (Vista), then you've got more than enough for OOO. However GPUs that can render an OOO game without problems (I've played on a Radeon 9600 XT back in the days!) will choke on TIE due to it's NPC density in some places.
- TIE uses complete randomness for spawns, while OOO is place centric. Imho place centric is more realistic.

QUOTE (phoenix1213 @ Oct 29 2009, 02:53 AM)
With all due respect to Povuholo, and his mod.... KDQ should be far, far away from any immersion list. With allusions to using the Internet, and CS; characters from Disney movies; rumors relating to game weirdness; and other really unimmersive things... it just doesn't make sense.

I'd probably get hate mails for this, but I put KDQ really quickly out of my game for two reasons.
- All quests I initially encountered really put me off. Example given when a high level character with more money than good for anyone finds a random note and then writes down "I can get some money by doing X. I really need the money!" and the quest is added immediately into the journal then no, I can only say my character didn't need the money and was really in no mood for a random "find some stuff for coins" quest. Add to that what you've described 1346.gif.
- One of the most blatant cases of false advertisements. At least currently a certain number given is only around 50% higher than the real number, no longer > 300% higher. Both aspects combined didn't really left me wanting to continue.


Posted by: Delte Oct 29 2009, 05:56 AM

QUOTE (phoenix1213 @ Oct 28 2009, 08:53 PM)
With all due respect to Povuholo, and his mod.... KDQ should be far, far away from any immersion list. With allusions to using the Internet, and CS; characters from Disney movies; rumors relating to game weirdness; and other really unimmersive things... it just doesn't make sense.


I was worried about that. All of played of the main quest is the beginning when you get the quest. As soon as you sleep..well...no spoilers..something happens. I didn't like the dialogue at all (mentioned it earlier in the thread).

But, there's been a ton of side quests and neat things that I've encountered that I think are pretty cool.

For example, I was outside Chorrol, and I saw a blood stain. Big blood stain. And, around it, someone had driven these bones into the ground--a bunch of them--all around the blood.

Now, what the hell was that? I dunno. I figured it was part of a quest that KDQ gives.

I dug all the bones out of the ground and used my fletching tools to make arrow shafts. Haven't come across the quest yet, though.

I think that's neat.

Even if I end up removing the mod because it's not immersive, there is a second mod included with it that gives NPCs "local lore". NPCs have a bunch of topics to discuss now, and so far, they've been very immersive. Some are humorous, true, but still within the context of the universe, not unlike some of the vanilla humor.

Like...one NPC commented about how you never see people cleaning up the streets or an undertaker's shop in the Imperial City. It basically said that these jobs are done--it's just that people don't like to talk about it. It's impolite. I thought that was very cool--added to the "culture" of the city.

There was some big discussion on these forums a year or two ago about making snakes with MMM to put into the game. Some said that snakes do not fit lore. A small flame war broke out.

Well, there's an NPC in the game who spoke about "how some people want to bring snakes to Cyrodiil", like they're not native to the place. I thought that was very funny and still within the context of the universe.

So, so far, the mod stays on the list. If it gets really non-immersive later, I'll yank it.


Posted by: phoenix1213 Oct 29 2009, 06:21 AM

* quest Spoilers for KDQ*

Snakes: Thats actually a quest you get from some guy in the IC arboretum, leads to a wild goose chase type quest.

Bones and blood: This happens to do with a missing horses quest which starts in Bravil.

Allusions to Internet and CS: These are actually in a side quest, not the main quest.

Rural dialogue: One thing I brought up to Povuholo was that all of the Khajiit and Argonians spoke perfect English... His explanation was that they're more integrated in the Imperial community, which I don't really buy, most of the Khajiit or Argonians speak or act weird in some way, unless they have a prominent position: Count's aide, high ranking guild member, etc. Doesn't make sense to me having all of them speak perfect.

Personally I haven't explored all of it completely because I hate wild goose chases, scavenger hunts, and all that. I have no personal problem with the lack of immersion at times.



Posted by: Sykes_Atherton Oct 29 2009, 06:28 AM

Uh, My Game won't start at all with OOO or MMM.

Just crashes shortly after the bethesda logo.

halp?



Posted by: phoenix1213 Oct 29 2009, 06:31 AM

Do you have Wrye Bash? If not, get it off of tesnexus. Start up Wrye Bash and view your mods. If any of them are red, there's your problem.

Most likely you somehow forgot the esm file for OOO and/or MMM.



Posted by: Sykes_Atherton Oct 29 2009, 06:37 AM

I use Oblivion mod manager. Or does Wrye Bash see something that OMM can't?

Er, it seems that MMM has textures and data that are already present in COBL and Dreadly reflex, would this cause the crash?



Posted by: phoenix1213 Oct 29 2009, 06:47 AM

Lot's more, it's color coded and everything. I was going to get a quick comparison pic of OBMM and Bash, but when I unchecked the ESM files bash also unchecked the ESP files that relied on it, as opposed to OBMM that just let me uncheck the esm files. So, yeah... a lot more advanced in that regard.

Do you have a MMM, OOO, and MMM for OOO esm?

The textures and data might cause compatibility issues, but the crash you're having is most commonly caused by missing Master files (ie: ESMs).

P.S. If you're using the OBMM conflict detector, I've heard from many reliable sources that it sucks at detecting real compatibility issues.



Posted by: Sykes_Atherton Oct 29 2009, 10:30 AM

I have an esm for both MMM and MMM for OOO.

Still crashes on startup.



Posted by: gothemasticator Oct 29 2009, 10:55 AM

QUOTE (Sykes_Atherton @ Oct 29 2009, 05:30 AM)
I have an esm for both MMM and MMM for OOO.

Still crashes on startup.

Sykes,

Why don't you start a new thread with your questions. In your first post, post your load order using the codebox, and include any info that might help those of us who will try to help you troubleshoot.

We can leave this thread for Delte.

gothemasticator


Posted by: Sykes_Atherton Oct 29 2009, 10:56 AM

lol, Didn't mean to hijack the thread, I guess these things don't have simple answers.



Posted by: ogami_ito Oct 29 2009, 02:17 PM


QUOTE (Sykes_Atherton @ Oct 29 2009, 04:56 AM)
lol, Didn't mean to hijack the thread, I guess these things don't have simple answers.


I think I also contributed to off-topic-ness when I asked about ooo vs TIE. People on this forum have very disciplined forum behavior and I should follow that. And I will write a little noob guides written by noobs for noob re: Bash v. OMMD,

Thanks for answering comments about OOO vs. Tie. And I love the bg, reners guard mod, TNR, OOO, and alot of great stuff here.

I think to me, needing to play more "thief-like" is more immersive. I mean, if we really wanted to get into it, people cannot fight 4 baddies at once. Most blades would do no damage to someone wearing platemail (but big hammers might). And spell effects like lightning would kill / incapacitate in one hit.

I know I know... I'm confusing immersion and realism.

Oh...and again a little off-topic...but I would like to say that bg rocks. Having night-site on a toggle is great (in the race balancing pack ).


Posted by: Delte Oct 29 2009, 02:26 PM

QUOTE (Sykes_Atherton @ Oct 29 2009, 12:28 AM)
Uh, My Game won't start at all with OOO or MMM.

Just crashes shortly after the bethesda logo.

halp?


I don't use Wrye Bash. Just haven't needed it. Of course, I'm slow learning new stuff. I haven't been using OMODs that long either!

But, what I would do is disable everything except OOO and MMM. If that's what you're doing, then I agree with other posts. You haven't installed them correctly, or you're missing an esm or esp. Make sure to read your installation instructions closely.

Get the game to run OOO+MMM, then add the other stuff.

If you follow my guide in Post #2 exactly, with a fresh install, you should have no problem. Look at my load order (skipping the non-OOO and MMM files).







QUOTE (ogami_ito @ Oct 29 2009, 08:17 AM)
I think I also contributed to off-topic-ness when I asked about ooo vs TIE. People on this forum have very disciplined forum behavior and I should follow that. And I will write a little noob guides written by noobs for noob re: Bash v. OMMD,


That's a great idea for a new "Thread". We get those questions all the time.

You should start Ogami_Ito's Thread of HOW TO DO IT, or something like that. Cover Wrye Bash and OMODs with simple, easy-to-follow, instructions for noobs.

When I first started my list, not that many people knew about timescale. Now, I notice, since it's been on my list, most people who read thes forums are aware of what timescale does. Your thread could fill a similar function for Bash, OMOD, etc.



Posted by: desertor Oct 29 2009, 10:13 PM

Im young here in Oblivion so maybe most of you already know about this: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=18617, If not, this mod change animations of 1 person. It place a 3rd person as 1. It seem very realistic. You dont see your shield and weapon static all the time. (I allways had the sensation of be flying with games in 1 pers). Check the video in the link.



Posted by: Sykes_Atherton Oct 29 2009, 10:32 PM

QUOTE (Delte @ Oct 29 2009, 06:26 AM)
I don't use Wrye Bash. Just haven't needed it. Of course, I'm slow learning new stuff. I haven't been using OMODs that long either!

But, what I would do is disable everything except OOO and MMM. If that's what you're doing, then I agree with other posts. You haven't installed them correctly, or you're missing an esm or esp. Make sure to read your installation instructions closely.

Get the game to run OOO+MMM, then add the other stuff.

If you follow my guide in Post #2 exactly, with a fresh install, you should have no problem. Look at my load order (skipping the non-OOO and MMM files).


Ah... I'll look into that, but is there an OMOD version of the current OOO? I think the problem may be installing OOO with OMM, because I don't see any OOO esm file on display.



Posted by: Delte Oct 30 2009, 02:19 AM

QUOTE (Sykes_Atherton @ Oct 29 2009, 04:32 PM)
Ah... I'll look into that, but is there an OMOD version of the current OOO? I think the problem may be installing OOO with OMM, because I don't see any OOO esm file on display.


If you don't see an OOO esm, then that's your problem. You don't really need the OMOD. It makes things easier. Just follow the OOO instructions. They aren't hard. Just drop everyting in the Oblivion/Data file. Make sure you've got an OOO esm and esp. Make sure both are check in the OBMM as you launch your game.

If you're using MMM too, you'll have an MMM esm and MMM esp as well. Make sure you're using the MMM for OOO esp (not the original one--and not both of them). Plus an MMM plug ins you want.

See my load order in Post #2. You can identify the OOO and MMM esm's and esp's.


Posted by: TheNiceOne Oct 30 2009, 10:44 AM

QUOTE (Delte @ Oct 20 2009, 10:20 PM)
Hey...maybe you two have stumbled upon an idea for a neat little mod that would make the bargaining slider more immmerisve and more fun to play.

StarX, I know you're a modder. You custom made the torches with weight. What about making a quick and easy little mod that will remove the merchant's skill level from the slider?

Or, better yet, with S'lider's idea...what about limiting the number of adjustments the player gets based on his character's skill level and how much the NPC disposition towards him?

Maybe something like: Novice gets 2 adjustments. Journeyman gets 3. Expert gets 4. Master gets 5?

That would be interesting...and keep people from finding the exact sweetspot of bargaining so fast.

I've been giving this more thought, and think I can add it to Enhanced Economy without too much difficulty. Here is what I consider adding:

1. A setting to choose without the current auto haggle, and the manual haggle feature.
The rest assumes manual haggle is chosen:
2. The global economy feature will be disabled, and most of the detailed haggle settings will be disabled as well, but you will be able to choose between standard and Cutthroat Merchant settings.
3. You will have a maxHaggle setting. This determines the number of haggle attempts you get per merchant per day. I may make this dependent on merchant skill or disposition, but think I will start out with a static value.
4. When you have reached the maxHaggle haggle attempts (counted as clicks on the Haggle OK button), an additional setting: haggleDispositionFactor determines what happens next:
5. If haggleDispositionFactor is zero, the Haggle OK button will simply become invisible and disabled, making it possible to view the haggle settings, but not to change them.
6: If haggleDispositionFactor is a positive value (typically 5-20), you will be able to continue haggling, but each click on the Haggle OK button will lower the merchant's disposition by this value in % of the merchant's current disposition.
7: If the merchant's disposition is lowered by this, the Persuation menu button will be disabled/invisible, making it impossible to just use it to increase the disposition again.
8: If you visit the merchant later, all this will be reset, provided there is a new day and the time since last visit is more than 5 hours.

Removing the Merchant's skill from the listing in the haggle menu is quite simple to accomplish too, and I can add a setting for it.

What do you think?


Posted by: Delte Oct 30 2009, 03:59 PM

QUOTE (TheNiceOne @ Oct 30 2009, 04:44 AM)
I've been giving this more thought, and think I can add it to Enhanced Economy without too much difficulty. Here is what I consider adding:


It sounds exciting!

You make it, and I'll try it out and give you feedback.





On a completely different note...

Question for you immersionists: You're in Oblivion trying to close a gate. You're low on health and up to your neck in baddies to fight. There's a fountain squirting magically enhanced blood up into the air. You know if you drink it that it will heal you.

Yet, it's blood! Or, at least it's main ingredient is blood!

And, you're in HELL! With DEMONS all around you!

What do you do?

Do you drink?

(This question is obviously for good-guy types like my paladin wanna-be, Ryse.)



Posted by: Johny Obliv Oct 30 2009, 04:06 PM

QUOTE (Delte @ Oct 30 2009, 10:59 AM)
On a completely different note...

Question for you immersionists: You're in Oblivion trying to close a gate. You're low on health and up to your neck in baddies to fight. There's a fountain squirting magically enhanced blood up into the air. You know if you drink it that it will heal you.


That's a thing that I've never really given any thought biggrin.gif I've always just mindlessly been drinking it, even though I usually play a Paladin.


Posted by: _earthling_ Oct 30 2009, 04:11 PM

Not if I am of true faith! Such vile option offered in a land moral ambiguity could only lead to corruption.



Posted by: gothemasticator Oct 30 2009, 04:41 PM

You go in squeaky clean, paladin to the bone... Then you find yourself nearly killed by strange hellish creatures; there are pools of lava (or brimstone) everywhere; you're in a confusing maze of a demon-building... Your mind is reeling, your sense of direction gone, you are near death... You drink from the blood fountain...

A short while later, you are refreshed and you finish your mission in the Oblivion realm. You shut the gate and are hailed as a hero in Kvatch. There really isn't much in the way of rewards, though, since the city has been razed. You understand, but you are irked nonetheless. Don't these people know what you went through to help them?! You decide that clearing the rest of the city can wait. There's real loot to be had in some of those ruins...

And so the blood fountain begins it's long slow work of corruption on your soul... Muhahahah...

wink.gif

gothemasticator



Posted by: showler Oct 30 2009, 04:45 PM

Depends on how desperate you are. Are you willing to pay a personal price for defeating the demons?

Too bad Oblivion doesn't actually have such a price.



Posted by: Delte Oct 31 2009, 01:19 AM

QUOTE (desertor @ Oct 29 2009, 04:13 PM)
Im young here in Oblivion so maybe most of you already know about this: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=18617...


This is almost a fantastic, must-have mod.

I slapped it in, and I loved it. When you run, it's not like gliding across glass as it is in the vanilla game. You bounce. You see your shield move up and down, with your arm pumping, matching the movement you see in third person. You get the full sensation of running. The mod's author really got the movement down (patched version is the one I tested). It adds a lot of realism.

When you jump, sometimes, but not all the time, you sink down to your knees, absorbing the energy of the jump. With touch spells, your hand doesn't just move out in front of you as it does in vanilla. You actually lean forward and touch the NPC you're attempting to put a touch spell upon.

Combine this with the slipping and sliding available in Realistic Fatigue, and you've got some damn nice immersive movement going on in your game.




Now, for the negative part:

There are a few things I'd change. First, when you sit, you still move into third person. There is another mod that will make your sitting happen in first person, but it seems that action should be included in this mod.

More importantly though--as much as the mod's author got "right", he missed the boat a bit with the weapon hand. First, he had the right idea. Your weapon shouldn't be held out in front of you as if you were a symbol player for a marching band, as it is in vanilla. The mod does a great job of changing perspective on the weapon--except it is extremely difficult to see your weapon at all if you're not swinging it. I'd like to be able to look down to my right and see my weapon gripped there, but unlike the way it is with the shield arm (done much better), it's hard to see a glimpse of your weapon at all.

Also--and probably the most important--there is no indicator to tell you when your weapon is out or sheathed. In real life, you'd obviously know this instantly. In the vanilla game, your weapon is right there in front of your face. With this mod, it's hard to tell. I found myself sheathing and un-sheathing my weapon to remind myself whether I was walking with my weapon out or at my waist. I want to be able to look, or see an indicator on my HUD (but not crowd the HUD either). But, as I said, it's hard to see your weapon in first person.

I like to look at the weapons close up, too. They look cool. This mod needs a way to see more of the weapon in the hand and still allow the mod to do it's job. Being able t look right and down should show you the weapon in your hand.

Instead of sheathing, going into third person momentarily works well, too. But, I found both detract a bit from immersion.

Lastly, combat takes a little getting used to with this mod. There is a sense of frantic swining and battling with this mod running. I like that. OTOH, I found that I didn't always know when I was staggered, as I do in vanilla. The shield animation in vanilla shows you instantly how long you are staggered. With this mod, not always seeing your shield, you don't know if you're still staggered or not.

Again, a bit of an immersion breaker.





Is the mod worthy of "The List"?

I dunno. The jury is still out. On the one hand, this mod brings a TON of immersion to the game, and the animations are well done.

OTOH, there are significant Cons to using this mods, things that add up to breaking immersion and not adding it.

I need further testing.

It would be incredible if the mod's author would update some of these problems. I'd definitely include it in Post #2 if the Cons list were shorter.



Anybody else have thoughts on this mod?





Posted by: Mr. Tissue Box Oct 31 2009, 01:24 AM

QUOTE (Delte @ Oct 30 2009, 05:19 PM)
Anybody else have thoughts on this mod?

Well Skycaptain is putting 3rd-person animations into first-person for DR6 and is tweaking them so you can see your weapon when unsheathed. I'm not sure if there will be head bobbing though. If not, it'd be great to combine the head bobbing from the 3rd-to-1st person animations you are speaking of.


Posted by: Delte Oct 31 2009, 01:31 AM

QUOTE (Mr. Tissue Box @ Oct 30 2009, 07:24 PM)
Well Skycaptain is putting 3rd-person animations into first-person for DR6 and is tweaking them so you can see your weapon when unsheathed. I'm not sure if there will be head bobbing though. If not, it'd be great to combine the head bobbing from the 3rd-to-1st person animations you are speaking of.


Skycaptain should try out this mod to see the movement. It really is brilliant. It feels as if you are really moving, and there is a huge difference in running and walking. I feel more tired when I run, even though, mechanics-wise, it's the same as vanilla.

Vanilla running seems effortless. This mod puts the effort back in.


Posted by: Johny Obliv Oct 31 2009, 01:35 AM

QUOTE (Delte @ Oct 30 2009, 08:31 PM)
Skycaptain should try out this mod to see the movement. It really is brilliant. It feels as if you are really moving, and there is a huge difference in running and walking. I feel more tired when I run, even though, mechanics-wise, it's the same as vanilla.

Vanilla running seems effortless. This mod puts the effort back in.


http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=20891

I think that this mod is better then the other one you guys were talking about.


Posted by: Delte Oct 31 2009, 02:17 AM

QUOTE (Johny Obliv @ Oct 30 2009, 07:35 PM)
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=20891

I think that this mod is better then the other one you guys were talking about.


Wow. The movie looks great. You may be right. I'm downloading now to test.



EDIT: OK, I tested the mod. As the readme says, it's a beta and extremely buggy, at least on my system. The mod is on the right track, but, at this time, it's no where near the level of professionalism I require for the list.

I sure would like to see this one again, though, once it's out of beta.


Posted by: Delte Oct 31 2009, 05:57 PM

Strange behavior. Had to put 'em down.



I bought a horse in Anvil. I decided to go with the more sturdy rather than the more swift. I slapped some armor on him, and called him "Oscar".

I've only had Oscar for a little bit. I've been running around on foot, and I do use the Cyrodiil Transportation Network.

Well, I picked Oscar up in Anvil, and I was heading, cross country, to Chorrol. I dismounted for a short break on top of a hill with a clear view of the ocean. I thought I'd get some lunch.

That's when it struck--some demon monster from the depths of Oblivion. It must have been hungry, because it passed me (actually, jumped over me) and went for the bigger meal, Oscar.

The thing tore into my horse. I drew Frostbite and began running as fast as I could to save my mount, but before I could get there, Oscar began to run. The thing chased it. I could see my horse's blood splatter all over its new armor plate.

I eventually was able to take advantage of the terrain so that I could attack the beast eating my horse. It was tough, but I bested it, and when I was done, I saw Oscar lying in the grass.

I thought he was dead.

But, upon closer inspection, I found that he wasn't. He was just in bad shape. (In the game, the horse is lying on the ground as if dead, but he wasn't dead.)

I used a spell I'd learned to heal my horse (Greater Convalescence), and then I camped there, through the night, to give him some rest (thinking the night's sleep would heal the horse completely).

At sunrise, I mounted Oscar again, and we rode for Chorrol.

But, something was different about him. Whenever I left him alone, he would attack everybody around him, friend or foe. (In the game, if I wasn't mounted on him, he'd attack anybody around him.)

What strange behavior. Was he traumatized from the fight? His near death experience?

(What in the world could make the horse act like that?)

I tried to calm him (Rally scroll), and that worked for a bit. But, when the magic wore off, Oscar was as mean as ever.

I ordered my men at Battlehorn to put him down. I couldn't do it myself. I'd only had him a short time, but in that time, we'd been through a lot together.

I guess the old boy just couldn't take it.

Soon, I will travel to Anvil, and see if the breeder has another mount.





(I told this story "in game", but it's true. What could make the horse act like that? Every time I dismounted the horse would attack whomever was around. It didn't act like that until it was nearly killed by the Greater Clanfear. Interesting.)



Posted by: Mr. Tissue Box Oct 31 2009, 06:03 PM

QUOTE (Delte @ Oct 31 2009, 09:57 AM)
(I told this story "in game", but it's true. What could make the horse act like that? Every time I dismounted the horse would attack whomever was around. It didn't act like that until it was nearly killed by the Greater Clanfear. Interesting.)

http://img.skitch.com/20090310-fue4arsbcqnqj5q9327sc2gd46.jpg


Posted by: ABO Nov 1 2009, 04:25 AM

Delte: was it RF that left your horse collapsed from his wounds? RF doesn't modify any sort of behaviour so it would not have caused him to be hostile like that...

I've just released http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=10925 v2.4 that is a quickish bugfix for horses, tripping, and knockout-panting. Let me know it this fixes the issues you had with v2.3...



Posted by: ABO Nov 1 2009, 04:30 AM

Delte: was it RF that left your horse collapsed from his wounds? RF doesn't modify any sort of behaviour so it would not have caused him to be hostile like that...

I've just released http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=10925 v2.4 that is a quickish bugfix for horses, tripping, and knockout-panting. Let me know it this fixes the issues you had with v2.3...



Posted by: Psymon Nov 1 2009, 05:04 AM

Ahh there is your thread again.

Delte - here is the updated version of KotWS we discussed earlier: http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1052739

again it removes dependency upon CM partners.



Posted by: Delte Nov 1 2009, 05:43 AM

QUOTE (ABO @ Oct 31 2009, 10:30 PM)
Delte: was it RF that left your horse collapsed from his wounds? RF doesn't modify any sort of behaviour so it would not have caused him to be hostile like that...


I dunno. I haven't run RF in over 100 hours of my game (I'm 200+ hours into now). I don't have the esp activated, but the files are still in my Data folder. I didn't think they'd be addressed without the esp activated.

I have seen some fishy stuff, though. About three or four times, I've seen Imperial guards on horses. The guards are alive. The horses are alive. But, the horses won't stand. It's like their legs are made out of speghetti. So, the guard is on the horse as if he's riding him, but they're laying on the ground. You can activate him to talk to him, just as if he was standing.

Is that the ghost of RF with no esp's activated? (I was using RF v2.3 OMOD, and I just deactivated the OMOD.)

Now, get this: I walk up to the downed guard/horse and use the console to resurrect him. The horse and rider appear, but the horse collapses again as if every bone in his legs were broken.

My horse was hurt bad from the Clanfear Matriarch attack. I threw a Greater Convalescence on him...and that's when the horse collapsed, legs like speghetti.

I finally used the console to disable the horse and then enable it. But, it's evil twin was right out of a Star Trek transporter accident. It kept attacking anybody around it as soon as I dismounted, both friend and foe.

Wierdness.





QUOTE
I've just released http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=10925 v2.4 that is a quickish bugfix for horses, tripping, and knockout-panting. Let me know it this fixes the issues you had with v2.3...


I do love the trips and slides in RF. But, I think I'm going to go with vanilla fatigue for a while. The fights are FANTASITIC. Gritty. Hairy. Fast paced. It's like having someone with a hand held camera in there fighting. Amazing stuff.

Couldn't do that type of thing with RF. I like the "heroic-ness" of it.

And I love riding my horse at break-neck speed, up and down hills, jumping over rocks, in a hurricane-like rain storm, can't see anything, enemies on my tail. That's some fun stuff, too. I lose my breath actually sitting here at the computer playing.

So...question: Can I load RF and get vanilla settings for fatigue but still be able to use health effects, slipping and sliding?









QUOTE (Psymon @ Oct 31 2009, 11:04 PM)
Ahh there is your thread again.

Delte - here is the updated version of KotWS we discussed earlier: http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1052739


I downloaded it when it was mentioned upthread, but I haven't loaded it yet.

I've been testing TalkyToaster's Share and Recruit. I've found it to be a much, much better mod than CM partners.

But, as with any recruitment mod, it's much too powerful. There needs to be some limits put on it. Like, it needs to be harder to recruit. There should be more limits on who you recruit. The more you recruit, the harder it should get (to keep parties small sized). And, there needs to be consequences for getting your party killed. I don't think others will want to join up with a guy who's come to town for the third time looking for some adventuring partners.



Posted by: Kinetix Nov 1 2009, 06:14 AM

Delte, just wondering, why don't you use the Better Cities mod? I think it adds some much needed variety and character to the cities of Oblivion.



Posted by: Delte Nov 1 2009, 07:20 AM

QUOTE (Kinetix @ Nov 1 2009, 12:14 AM)
Delte, just wondering, why don't you use the Better Cities mod? I think it adds some much needed variety and character to the cities of Oblivion.


Got a link?



Posted by: Kinetix Nov 1 2009, 07:32 AM

ohmy.gif Seriously? You've never heard of the mod? http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16513



Posted by: sean144800 Nov 1 2009, 09:47 AM

Awww, I wanna post a moment too, btw great list of Mod's Delte I used your list as a jumping point to basically build my whole game ^^ but nywho, lol FCOM and I have a love, hate relationship...

CODE
I'm headin toward chorral on foot becuase I can't fast travel anywhere unless I've been there, and i run into a fort
(that i know is there because I ran into it once on my nord pally), and so I decide to go inside. Right as i enter i am attacked
by a massive (thank you MMM Resized races) orc who procedes in attempting to punch me to death and a cowardly breton battlemage
who immediatly ran away flinging spells at me. Well I'm antronache sign so i don't mind the spells, seeing as half of em just give me mana,
and i kill the orc and attempt to run down the breton who was very fast... Once I finally caught up to and killed the Breton. I continued further
into the fort and found an elevated and open area overlooking a flooded lower section of the fort. looking down into this main
courtroom I see 12-15 npcs killing each other off (raiders vs bandits (opposing factions)) so i just sat back, and watched. Later
taking the liberty of cleaning up afterwords. I didn't find anything remotely useful -.-. So I left and proceded to climb up a
nearby hill, because i saw the cave not too far off the road on my way to the fort, and suddenly my character is threatened.
I eagerly run up the hill to see what has engaged my characterto find two fruitbats, wich quickly being to attack me. so i leasurly
cut down the little buggers with a mere swing or two, though I must admit I soon find myself
rather embarrassed at how much damage they did to me. When I realize I am still in combat. Out of nowhere an
impling zooms past me and starts fightin a group of 5 or so fruitbats along with 6 or 7 of his impling allies. i quickly decide to join the
fray, and easily disposed of them all. Feeling pretty confident i finally reach the top of the hill and can see the cave.
(as a side not my character is inexperienced(im lv.1)) Unfortunatly I find myself looking at 3 Clannfear and a lone scamp brutally massacreing
a grizzly bear, which i could never hope to defeat. and the daedra soon turn to fight me after disposing of the poor woodland creature.
Needless to say i ran backwords anddesperatly tried to slay the foremost clannfear with spells and my maul. But the
clannfear is unphased by my weapon and almost kills me with a single bite, so i turn around and run with my rather
severe injuries (1/4 health) and try to ignore the fact that I am still being pursued. I finally make it back to the road,
but i notice my character is still in combat. Wary that I might not have escaped from my far superior foes i watch the
hill came from and heal myself using minor magicks (to about 3/4). Out of nowhere I am delt a devastating blow
(1/2 my bar) from behind and wheel about to see another very large, and very angry orc in fur armor, weilding a
steel warhammer, screaming at me to die. i funble for and drink a restorative potion and start fighting him as best I can.
manage to injure him (1/2 health) and he flees, and I, of course, chase after him. Only to realize far too late that he
was leading me into an ambush set by his companions; a rouge shaman, and a barbaric looking orc with a 2-h axe.
i manage to distance them in a three way fight in such a way that I gain the advantage through mobility, and kill
them one by one. After defeating the Orcs I claim one of their fine hammers and turn around and resume my treck
down the road towards chorral. I recognize the fort and catch a glimpse of a kajhit dashing into a nearby bush on the far
side of the fort's exterior plaza. i slow down and draw my new warhammer, only to be greeted by two large boars
(they do 1/2 health bar per hit) and am forced to reatreat and take advantage of their aggressive nature to fight them
with relative ease (running backwards swinging my new hammer in order to keep them off me). After the Boar's
companion was killed, and it had been wounded it retreated. Phased, but still wary I made my way back to the fort and
proceed though the courtyard, and to my surprise met with no interference from the bandit, in fact the bandit is
nowhere to be found. I consider this to simply be a streak of good luck and continue on my way. Before I can take
a hundred steps I chance upon a pack of 3 wolves, which would ordinary not be a threat, but i had used the last of
my potions in the encounter with the boars, and was also severely injured
(my magica doesn't regen since I'm antronache). As a result of these poor circumstances
I am forced to fight a long, loosing battle with the wolves. Not ten seconds after engaging in this likely leathal battle
four mounted Imperial patrolmen fly past me (no kidding literally 4) rushing inn screaming "for the emporer!". Startled
by this godsend I simply defend against thw wolves and wait eagerly for assistance. The guards ran right by me without
even a glance... but then engaged a small group of bandits that I had somehow managed to inadvertantly avoid. The
bandits shot their bows at the closing guards and inadvertantly killed the wolves i was fighting, thus allowing me to
heal myself using the mana I luckily gained from a stray firball. After healing my wounds to a satisfactory level I
joined the guard's all out war against the bandits. We where victorious and i hastily
took some of the bigger dents out of my equipment, and washed it free of blood (repaired my broken everything)
and continued on. This all transpired in roughly 15 minutes real time. Hope you
enjoyed. (Will put in codebox so it doesn't kill the page).



Posted by: ABO Nov 1 2009, 10:29 AM

QUOTE (Delte @ Oct 31 2009, 11:43 PM)
Is that the ghost of RF with no esp's activated? (I was using RF v2.3 OMOD, and I just deactivated the OMOD.)

If RF is deactivated, then it's gone... it leaves nothing behind, except, now that I think about it, boosted horse fatigues... horses that RF touched will have high ~350 fatigues, not the default 50.

So it sounds like some other mod you are using is a little buggy...
QUOTE (Delte @ Oct 31 2009, 11:43 PM)
I do love the trips and slides in RF. But, I think I'm going to go with vanilla fatigue for a while. The fights are FANTASITIC. Gritty. Hairy. Fast paced. It's like having someone with a hand held camera in there fighting. Amazing stuff.

Couldn't do that type of thing with RF. I like the "heroic-ness" of it.

And I love riding my horse at break-neck speed, up and down hills, jumping over rocks, in a hurricane-like rain storm, can't see anything, enemies on my tail. That's some fun stuff, too. I lose my breath actually sitting here at the computer playing.

So...question: Can I load RF and get vanilla settings for fatigue but still be able to use health effects, slipping and sliding?

RF is fully tuneable, and there is no need to have it as tough as the recommended defaults are. For some reason when I was developing RF people were constantly asking for it to be harsher, so the recommended defaults reflect that. If you install RF with OBMM and select Fatigue Burn Rate "Slow", and Fatigue Recovery Rate "Fast" with everything else set as defaults, you should get something as frantic as vanilla with all the RF features included. You will still stumble/trip/pant when you have low fatigue, but your fatigue will recover faster and burn slower so you will rarely have low fatigue unless you are over encumbered or badly wounded. If the encumbrance and wounding fatigue drains are also holding things back, you can reduce encumbDrainGain and healthDrainGain in RealisticFatigue.ini, or even set them to 0.0 to turn them off.

Also, horses in v2.4 should not suffer as much as they did with v2.3, even with default recommended settings.


Posted by: Delte Nov 1 2009, 03:36 PM

QUOTE (ABO @ Nov 1 2009, 04:29 AM)
If RF is deactivated, then it's gone... it leaves nothing behind, except, now that I think about it, boosted horse fatigues... horses that RF touched will have high ~350 fatigues, not the default 50.


I bought the white horse after I deactivated RF, so it doesn't have the high fatitgue. Or, shouldn't.

Hm. I'm not running anything else that affects horses except the official Horse Armor plug-in and a mod that allows the Imperial Guard to use horse armor. But, I've run those since day one, four characters ago, and this is the first time I've run into this bug.

I'll prolly just ignore it unless it starts popping up more frequently.





QUOTE
For some reason when I was developing RF people were constantly asking for it to be harsher, so the recommended defaults reflect that.


I was one of those people. It's a challenging and enjoyable experience to manage your fatigue while in battle. You're sweating. You've got on this heavy plate. You can hear your heart pump in your ears, and your head feels like it expands with every beat.

That's what harsh RF brings to the table. It can be quite addicting.

I've got about 600 hours of that under my belt, though, with my other three characters. I tried to try new things with this character. Where as my last toon was a thief, this one is a fighter. Pugg used blade. Ryse uses blunt. Pugg was specialized in light armor. Ryse likes heavy. Pugg needed Conjuration. Ryse finally improved it past 25 at level 23. Pugg was an Imperial. Ryse is a Nord. Pugg had no problem skirting the law, while Ryse strives to appease the Nine and right all wrongs.

Pugg was a street-rat rogue. He could be charming, but you never knew if he'd stick a knife in your back, or watch your back. Ryse is a man that men follow--a lord--a reluctant noble--a classic hero.

Given these changes, I decided to try vanilla fatigue...and I found that I liked it (can't remember the last time I didn't use RF...prolly my first toon back when I was testing Frans's mod the year that Oblivion came out).

So, I'm sticking with vanilla fatigue for now. It's strickly for these reasons I've mentioned (no reflection on your mod at all...I like to think I helped make it as popular as it is).





QUOTE
If you install RF with OBMM and select Fatigue Burn Rate "Slow", and Fatigue Recovery Rate "Fast" with everything else set as defaults, you should get something as frantic as vanilla with all the RF features included. You will still stumble/trip/pant when you have low fatigue, but your fatigue will recover faster and burn slower so you will rarely have low fatigue unless you are over encumbered or badly wounded. If the encumbrance and wounding fatigue drains are also holding things back, you can reduce encumbDrainGain and healthDrainGain in RealisticFatigue.ini, or even set them to 0.0 to turn them off.


I may just give that a go. Sounds good.



QUOTE
Also, horses in v2.4 should not suffer as much as they did with v2.3, even with default recommended settings.


So, still no way to keep the horses vanilla? There are so many hills in Cyrodiil, it actually breaks my immersion to have to walk my horse. Like that long road up to Bruma. Walking the horse seems very non-immersive to me (although it may be more realistic).

I want the heated horse races. Racing around trees, brush slapping in my face, frantically jumping over rocks. Spurring my mount onward, "C'mon boy! It's just a little farther!"

I want to keep my horses like that.


Posted by: Delte Nov 1 2009, 05:34 PM

@ABO

OK, I tried RF 2.4. I set all settings to "Low" except fatigue recover, which I set "High". Horses are fine! I ran that beast hard! Works good!

Fights are cool, too. You bascially get vanilla fatigue except that your encumbrance matters A LOT more. You can't walk around with 15 two-handed hammers. You can't fight well carrying a lot of weight.

That's an excellent mix between the vanilla game and immersion. It adds a tad more realism, but still keeps the fights heroic and fantasy-esque.

Excellent job, ABO!

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=10925





@Kuertee

Also with RF 2.4, I tried your backpack mod. It works well, too, and it's a great companion to ABO's mod. One can drop his entire inventory in a second so that you can fight!

A side benefit to your mod is that the player becomes more reliant on his pre-set quick keys. He needs to think ahead. No more digging around in your backpack with the game paused for just the right potion. You need to think what you're going to need.

This mod assumes that the 8 quick keys are what the toon has "at hand". Maybe that's a spell. Maybe that's a sword. Maybe that's a potion. Whatever.

If an item is not assigned to a quick key, or being worn, then it is dropped when the backpack is dropped.

The fighter instantly gets more fatigue, so that he can fight more effectively, but he also loses all the "stuff" in his backpack during the fight. This is quite immersive! I love the pre-planning for quick keys, too.

Two things I could mention as Cons about this mod, though:

1 - It'd be nice to see, every once in a while, an NPC walking around with a backpack. And, if you're going to see the backpack on NPCs, it'd be nice to see different types (a large sack, a canvas backpack...etc).

2 - When I dropped the backpack, I noticed that it would float in the air about waist height. Is this a bug? Or is this something you did to make it easier to find in the grass and what-not?

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=21721



Posted by: Kinetix Nov 1 2009, 06:37 PM

QUOTE (Delte @ Nov 1 2009, 08:34 AM)
2 - When I dropped the backpack, I noticed that it would float in the air about waist height. Is this a bug? Or is this something you did to make it easier to find in the grass and what-not?
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=21721


"10b. When you near the backpack's location, it will pop-up to about waist-level.
Nearing its location is a good indication that you know where it is and have not lost it.
The default distance you need to be from it is 250 units. This can be changed in the INI file."

Was on the TESNexus page. tongue.gif


Posted by: Delte Nov 1 2009, 11:37 PM

RE: Cyrodiil Transportation Network



You know what I like about this mod? It can be expressed in this example I just experienced a moment ago while playing.

My toon is Lord of Battlehorn castle. He lost his horse in a recent adventure, and he likes the whites bred in Anvil. They're not as fast as the Cheydinhal blacks, but they're hardier--stouter in a fight. Lord Ryse had some loot to sell, as well. Booty from the risks he'd taken recently. He loaded up on stuff to sell, made the walk to Chorrol, visited the merchants there, then used the network to take him to Skingrad.

He would have gone all the way to Anvil, but Skingrad was as far as that cart master would take him. (Cool point #1: The routes are realistic. You can't use them as an exact, free-for-all replacement for Fast Travel.)

It cost 11 septims, too. The Lord felt guilty knowing he'd spent about as much gold as some citizens in the empire make all year. But, quickly thereafter, he also remembered that the septims were hard won. Your average citizen hadn't faced the dogs of hell on the plane of Oblivion. (Cool point #2: The charge is just about right--not enough to matter a whole lot, but it adds up if you use it a lot).

Ryse got to Skingrad, made a quick sell to the master of Colivan Traders, then proceeded out the gate to find the cart master, Walas. Ryse knew Walas because the Lord of Battlehorn had waited for him before. For some reason, Walas isn't at his cart for some hours of the day. Ryse believes drink must be his demon.

(Cool point #3: The cart masters and ship captains of the Cyrodiil Transportation Network have lives. They don't just stand next to their carts/ships night and day. They sleep. They eat. They visit the taverns. They walk around a bit. Work isn't all they do. So, you may have to go searching for them. Or, what I usually do is just hit the Wait key for an hour. They usually show up.)

Well, Ryse waited for SIX HOURS for Walas to show up. Thinking he probably could have made the journey on foot, waiting for the cart master at Skingrad put him behind a day. By the time they reached Anvil, the sun had receded, and Ryse would have to wait for the next day to vist the merchants and finish selling his loot.

(Cool point #4: I hit the Wait key for an hour. No Walas. I hit it again. Again, no Walas. It took six one-hour waits to finally see Walas show up. What the hell was he doing?)

THAT'S IMMERSION, brothers.

Cool mod. Stays on "The List".



Posted by: Kinetix Nov 1 2009, 11:59 PM

I think you just convinced me to get that mod, Delte. tongue.gif

Also...six hour lunch break? *shrug*



Posted by: ABO Nov 2 2009, 01:00 AM

QUOTE (Delte @ Nov 1 2009, 09:36 AM)
So, still no way to keep the horses vanilla? There are so many hills in Cyrodiil, it actually breaks my immersion to have to walk my horse. Like that long road up to Bruma. Walking the horse seems very non-immersive to me (although it may be more realistic).

I want the heated horse races. Racing around trees, brush slapping in my face, frantically jumping over rocks. Spurring my mount onward, "C'mon boy! It's just a little farther!"

I want to keep my horses like that.

As you have noticed, with less harsh settings, RF horses are still like that... the only noticeable changes will be when your horse is badly wounded or heavily encumbered he will start to whinny and might stumble when you are riding him. This should give you some warning when he needs some healing, which should help you save your horse with a few healing spells before he suddenly dies on you.


Posted by: mdpeyrot Nov 2 2009, 02:26 AM

This little mod is a gem. thumbsup.gif thumbsup.gif

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=27145

from the Description:

CODE
1. OBLIVIFALL INTRODUCTION

Oblivifall "Revenge of the Classic" is a project that aims to bring many features from The Elder Scrolls 2: Daggerfall to Oblivion. For many old fans of Elder Scrolls, Daggerfall is still the best cRPG Bethesda has ever designed or even the best cRPG ever made. I will be releasing many separate mods that will add new features and options to Oblivion.

Now let's see what this mod is about, shall we?

2. SOMETHING'S NOT RIGHT...

This module adds informative messages that pop up at the top left of your screen when you get closer to a dungeon. These messages can inform you that your character has a vague feel of unease, notices goblin tracks, feels watched, smells a putrid odor, etc.

There are 47 different messages that you can see and they vary depending on what kind of dungeon you are getting close to. Getting close to a necromancer lair might inform you that your character notices freshly turned dirt or he might notices that horses recently passed by the area near a bandit-owned fort.



I've been using this for a few weeks. It's on my "will not play without" list. I have DarN UI configured to display messages centered at the bottom of the screen, I found I missed too much at the top left.




Posted by: Delte Nov 2 2009, 02:56 AM

QUOTE (mdpeyrot @ Nov 1 2009, 08:26 PM)
This little mod is a gem. thumbsup.gif thumbsup.gif

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=27145


I just tried that mod. You're right, it is a good mod. But, I un-installed it because I felt it gave me too much information. I found I knew what to expect (Undead, bandits, goblins, etc) from the descriptions. Which, I guess, is kind of the point.

I'd recommend it for people who find immersion in their toon's knowing the lay of the land, like rangers.

For me, the "surprise" of what's in the cave was too much of a cost.

It's a good, well done mod, though.



Posted by: Psymon Nov 2 2009, 03:25 AM

Actually the messages you get have nothing to do with what you encounter - they are randomly (I think) generated.

I've come upon a cave and been told that there were troll tracks then was attacked by a bear. Cliffworms even says as much.

Still it does give some interesting messages that you cannot get from watching/hearing the game. Senses like smell, atmosphere (quite insects, etc).

Delte- you may like the other Oblivifall mod - Let's talk - which adds even more to talk about with NPCs. I use it with KDQ-Rural Line, Roleplaying dialogues, 300 Lore Dialogues (updated by Cliffworms too), and talk with your hands.

Now I have to scroll down to find those plot dialogues - every one has something to say.



Posted by: Delte Nov 2 2009, 03:58 AM

QUOTE (Psymon @ Nov 1 2009, 09:25 PM)
Actually the messages you get have nothing to do with what you encounter - they are randomly (I think) generated.


The readme says otherwise. If it's undead, you might smell a foul stench. If it's bandits, you might see that the earth has been trampled recently.



QUOTE
Delte- you may like the other Oblivifall mod - Let's talk - which adds even more to talk about with NPCs. I use it with KDQ-Rural Line, Roleplaying dialogues, 300 Lore Dialogues (updated by Cliffworms too), and talk with your hands.


I tried all of those.

Let's Talk and 300 Lore Dialogues gives too much information, I feel--makes info too easy to find. I think the mods would be better if only certain NPCs had the info you seek. Talk to three NPCs with these mods, and there's not much that is a secret any more.

I am keeping KDQ-Rural Line, though. That's good stuff. Not too much, and interesting.



Posted by: Psymon Nov 2 2009, 04:04 AM

Hah - how funny - my play style much different.

I've had those installed for months now and have yet to exhaust even 20% of the topics. I guess I don't talk much - kinda like real life.

I agree moreso with the 300 Lore dialogues than the other, still it is better than having an NPC added to a game that says nothing (Crowded cities, Crowded roads - all these say nothing NPCs).

then taking the opposite track of Somethings not right: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=27720



Posted by: gothemasticator Nov 2 2009, 04:49 AM

Delte,

Here's some mods I really enjoy that it sure seems to me would fit in with your playstyle:

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8113: Notably adds hay and apples that you can feed your horse. Also harvestable mushrooms that grow on fallen logs. An additional option is http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8285 which keeps only one species of mushroom per log.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=15294: I'm sure I've heard you mention this mod, and I wonder that you don't use it. Configurable. I have mine set so that I need to have a quill and an inkwell in order to write in the journal. Choice of journal jackets. I love it. I'm bad with names, so I jot lots of them down.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=25714: Despite the "lightweight" in the name, what this mod allows you to do is set the weight for all (except scripted) potions in the game. Wrye Bash has a "reweigh potions" function, but it does not dynamically keep up with factors in the game, like your changing alchemy skill. This mod does! I have all potions set to .3 wg.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=6914: I love this mod most for its Koi Add-On, which puts several kinds of Koi (goldfish) in the lily ponds in IC.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11778: Adds clocks, both freestanding and on walls. I really like being to tell the time by looking at an in-game clock! Plus, they're pretty.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/search.php: Adds beauty and provincial variety to the outdoor world. Redwoods, yew forests, handcrafted streams, long cascading waterfalls, etc., etc. I would think an immersionist such as yourself would just eat these mods up.

gothemasticator




Posted by: Delte Nov 2 2009, 05:31 AM

QUOTE (gothemasticator @ Nov 1 2009, 10:49 PM)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8113:

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=15294


These sound interesting.


QUOTE
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=25714


The "weight" of an item in Oblivion is not in pounds. It's in feathers. IIRC, three feathers is about a pound (so divide weigths by 3, and that should give you the approx. weight of the item).

The "feather" in Oblivion is not only a weight measurment, but an encumbrance measurment. For example, if you're carrying a large box made out of balsa wood, it would have a high feather rating even though the balsa wood makes the item very light. It's encumbering.

Then again, a small rock the size of your fist is easy to carry, but it's heavy. So, it too, would have a high encumberance rating.

Potions in the game are represented at about the size of a .5 liter Coke bottle. OOO makes potions different weights, but 0.5 to 0.3 is common. I'm happy with that. Seems correct.





QUOTE
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=6914


Tried it. Adds lag to the game for little gain. I don't use the OOO fish for the same reason. If it added no lag, I'd use it.



QUOTE
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11778


This one's been reviewed on Delte's Thread a few times. It's a brilliant mod, made by a master mod maker. The problem is that I think it's not immersive at all. It breaks lore. The clocks are too "high tech". It's something the dwemer would have done. But, their technology is almost like magic to the citizens of the empire. There's no way all these nice clocks would be decorating Imperial City. Who's been maintaining them?



QUOTE
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/search.php


Again, georgeous mod. The UL's add lag, though. I try to stay away from fps eaters.



Posted by: Bodevanlot Nov 2 2009, 05:41 AM

Kyoma's journal mod is a must for me. I've written a good 10-15 pages (in word) using it since the download. My sole complaint is that it starts to lag while writing a little (wouldn't be a big problem if I typed slower) towards the later pages in a book, but a new volume solves that, just makes things a little unorganized at times. This is a must-have for me, it's done great things in establishing a connection between me and my character. Plus, I'm writing more, which can only be a good thing.
Also, I love Realistic Fatigue. Thanks for the update, ABO, it's good to see you're still keeping it up to date.
Qarl's Harvest sounds awesome. I'd heard of it, but never looked into it. Trying now.
Also a vouch for Really Immersive Messages. 1st person makes a world of difference.



Posted by: gothemasticator Nov 2 2009, 05:42 AM

Ahhh... lag. I wasn't thinking about that. Makes sense for both the water add-ons and the landscapes.

Kyoma's Journal has the potential for a real (tough!) immersion-booster: You could conceivably get rid of compass markers altogether as well as quest messages. I know that DarkUI is configurable enough for removing all compass markers. There's even a mod out there that removes the compass itself until you complete a quest! (Can't find it at the moment, though...) I'm using something or other which removes the pop-up quest messages, but I don't know if one could remove the menu page listings... In any case, for real (tough!) immersion, you could rely entirely on the journal for such things. Don't know yet if I would find that immersive and fun or annoying...

Clocks: I'm not much of a loremaster at all, so the repair question and dwemer connection hadn't occurred to me. Makes perfect sense, though.

gothemasticator



Posted by: Trinket Nov 2 2009, 05:50 AM

You may have already mentioned this, if you have I apologize I didn't go though the whole thread, but http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=oblivionmods.Detail&id=2000 is a must have at least in my opinion.


Here's a short list of features...

  • Bone Names and Priced Skull
  • Disables Fast Travel
  • Essential Characters Killable
  • Fatigue Loss from Running
  • Hunger Effects
  • Lock Spells
  • Levitation Magic
  • Lycanthropy and Lichcraft
  • Main Quest Delayer
  • Realistic Law Enforcement
  • Teleportation Magic and Icarian Flight
  • The Black Sacrament - Night Mother's Ritual
  • Travel Services



Posted by: Delte Nov 2 2009, 06:10 AM

QUOTE (gothemasticator @ Nov 1 2009, 11:42 PM)
You could conceivably get rid of compass markers altogether as well as quest messages.


My quest markers are gone. So is my compass. Immersive Interface (link in Post #2) does the trick nicely.

The thing about the quest message is: Sometimes you need 'em. The NPCs don't say a whole lot sometimes other than, "I've marked it on your map."

If you don't know what they're talking about, you're out of luck. You're searching for a needle in a hay stack. The cave you need to go to could be anywhere.

For this reason, I keep the map with quest markers on it, but my HUD compass and quest markers are permanantly disabled. When I get a quest, I'll look at the map and look for landmarks, memorizing it's location. Then, I try never to open the map again--figuring the NPC told me the land marks.

Yes, I've searched for three game days before looking for a freakin' cave.

I like it that way, though. I find it very immersive. And, I always get into some other trouble along the way.

I still think it's cool when I get lost in forest.

"What? I'm way over here?"






QUOTE (Trinket @ Nov 1 2009, 11:50 PM)
You may have already mentioned this, if you have I apologize I didn't go though the whole thread, but http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=oblivionmods.Detail&id=2000 is a must have at least in my opinion.


Mentioned a long, long time ago, when the List was first started. There's a lot of neat stuff in that collection. It's all modular, too. So, people can pick and chose what they want.

I don't think the mod series is being updated anymore, is it?

Still...some good stuff in that series.



Posted by: gothemasticator Nov 2 2009, 06:26 AM

QUOTE (Delte @ Nov 2 2009, 12:10 AM)
The thing about the quest message is: Sometimes you need 'em. The NPCs don't say a whole lot sometimes other than, "I've marked it on your map."

For this reason, I keep the map with quest markers on it, but my HUD compass and quest markers are permanantly disabled. When I get a quest, I'll look at the map and look for landmarks, memorizing it's location. Then, I try never to open the map again--figuring the NPC told me the land marks.

See, you've thought a lot more about this stuff than I have smile.gif . That's why I really enjoy the fact that you maintain this thread.

gothemasticator


Posted by: Delte Nov 2 2009, 07:53 AM

Errol Flynn, Eat Your Heart Out...



Ryse, Lord of Battlehorn, Captain of the Knights of the White Stallion, proven Paladin of the Nine, has pledged his weapon arm to the True Gods, vowing to stamp out evil and defend the realm from this monstrous daedric invasion.

Through one of the awe-inspiring Gates, on the very plane of Oblivion itself, Ryse fights, Fury, his black iron mace, crackling with energy, swinging through the air as he engages two reavers in the dark halls of a Tower.

The name "reaver" is well coined. Those fetchers, in their love of blood letting, kill all that stand in their way: even the daedra; even their own kind.

But, two had ganged up on Lord Battlehorn. Their speed is not natural. Ryse can only image what they traded for their amazing strength, too. One blow in three knock him back, dazing him, requiring him to gather his wits and his balance.

The screech of metal rings loudly in the corridor. Behind Ryse, a steel knife slams down from the ceiling, the begins to raise itself. The daedric Prince who's realm this must laugh at the death that pervades this place.

On Ryse's finger, he wears the Ring of Fire, a magika favored piece of jewelry that makes him 100% protected from fire, both natural and not. Ryse had put the ring to good use earlier, fighting no less than four reavers, maneuvering them into the center of two of the daedric fire traps. As they burned, Ryse gained victory against them.

Ryse looked for a similar maneuver here. But, here, there was no fire.

Only the blade...

It slammed down again behind his back. The reavers blows had forced him back. Another span of a hand, and he would have been dead, sliced by the impossibly heavy steel knife bisecting the corridor.

If he could only change positions in the fight, force them into the line of the trap.

SLAM! Ryse is hit. And, he cannot move. Some magic, or poison, the reaver used locks him in place. Not paralyzed. He stands. But, it's as if his armor just became ten times as heavy.

He strains, but move he does not.

SMACK! Another hit, the blow of which pushes him back. The trap from the ceiling falls gain. The blade could have shaved is nose, but luck, or the Nine, are on his side this night. He does not fall victim to the blade as the reavers' blows has pushed him farther back, just past the traps line of decent.

The magic wears off, and Ryse can move again. He swings Fury with all his might. Currents of electricity race across the body of his foe. But, like a zombie, the reaver seems little phased.

So Ryse takes a step backwards, drawing his blood thirsty opponents toward the trap.

There must be some brain in those reflective eyes, though, as both opponents step forward, past the knife trap, to land more blows upon Lord Battlehorn's shield.

SLINK!! Another knife trap falls from the ceiling. What a scene. Large, sharp, counter-weighted blades slice through the corridor, and between them, a palladin fights two who have sold their souls to hell.

Ryse times it, and steps past the second trap, trying desperately to catch his opponents as the blade falls again from the ceiling.

No. They're too quick. Past the second blades they are. The battle continues. Fury whistles through the air, impacting one of the starry-eyed reavers. Their skin burns a little from the energy impact. But, the two of them fight on, slamming Battlehorn's shield with every blow.

Ryse maneuvers. A step back. A step to his left. His mind, searching all for details in the battle for his life, notices the traps in the hallway have stopped. The trigger must be on this side of the trap. His eyes catch a glimpse of brass. It's a claw--a handle. He's seen them before. Pull it, and it activates the knife traps.

Another step left. The reavers push toward him. One should be under the knife.

Ryse's hand moves like a snake, grabbing the trap lever.

The blade falls.

And, the reaver steps out of the way.

Again.

But, the other has become staggared by Ryse's last blow. One maneuver didn't work, but Ryse spent little brain time on it. With a lunge, he swing his mace upwards in a powerful backhanded swing, catching one of the reavers under his chin. The man dropped his weapon and shield as he flew backwards, dead before he hit the ground--even before the lightning display stopped spreading across his body.

And now, Ryse was afforded the moment to turn Fury onto the last reaver.

It wasn't long, and Ryse had won the day the old fashioned way.

Tricks were not needed.





(Real fight. It just happened in my game. It was so cinematic! Ryse swinging Fury...the blades falling from the ceiling...the reavers pounding at Ryse, knocking him back. I saw it all in my head, then wrote it down. Amazing fight.)



Posted by: Sykes_Atherton Nov 2 2009, 09:44 AM

You're a beast.



Posted by: TheNiceOne Nov 2 2009, 10:16 AM

QUOTE (Delte @ Nov 2 2009, 05:31 AM)
The "weight" of an item in Oblivion is not in pounds. It's in feathers. IIRC, three feathers is about a pound (so divide weigths by 3, and that should give you the approx. weight of the item).

The "feather" in Oblivion is not only a weight measurment, but an encumbrance measurment. For example, if you're carrying a large box made out of balsa wood, it would have a high feather rating even though the balsa wood makes the item very light. It's encumbering.

Then again, a small rock the size of your fist is easy to carry, but it's heavy. So, it too, would have a high encumberance rating.

Potions in the game are represented at about the size of a .5 liter Coke bottle. OOO makes potions different weights, but 0.5 to 0.3 is common. I'm happy with that. Seems correct.
The point of Lightweight Potions is not to generally make potions heavier or lighter (though you can use it for that), but to get rid of the main immersion breaker of alchemy (for me, and probably a few others). As you probably know, the first time your brew a potion/poison of any type its weight is set to the average weight of the ingredients you use. And then when you brew more identical potions they all get that weight, regardless of the ingredients used. When the stats of the potion changes (usually due to increased alchemy skill), this is considered a new potion, so the weight of the slightly altered potion is based on the weight of the ingredients used brewing the first potion of that type.

An example: You create a Restore Fatigue potion, and happen to use Watermelon and Cheese Wheel, with average weight of 4. So now all your Fatigue potions will have weight of 4 even if created of Aloe Vera and Blackberry, really pushing your encumberance. If your first Restore Fatigue potion of that strength was instead made of the latter, its weight would be 0.1 instead.

Since I play a difficult game where I need to bring along lots of Health and Fatigue potions, and using Realistic Fatigue where the encumberance really matters, I ended up having to keep a close eye on my alchemy skill, and every time I suspected the next use of it would lead to a skill increase, I had to make sure to use the lightest ingredients possible. If not, when I got the message that my skill had increased I would already have made a potion of the new strength that possibly weighted a lot, and would affect all my potions of that type until my next alchemy skill increase.

Having to keep an eye on the Alchemy skill like that, and making sure to keep at least two very light ingredients of each important type became a real Immersion breaker. But not doing so would really hamper my character when she dragged around 30 Restore Fatigue potions of high weight, especially when most of the potions were made of light ingredients, just not the first.


So I made Lightweight Potions as a solution to this. With this mod, all user-made potions get the same weight (0.2 by default, but tweakable in the ini). All the potions are just bottles with some juice, so it is not exactly realistic that one potion weights so much more just because one of the ingredients was juice from a watermelon. By default, the mod doesn't touch the weight of mod-added potions, only the user-made ones. But this too can be adjusted in the ini file.


On another note: The Immersive Haggle feature of Enhanced Economy is now implemented, very close to what I described earlier in this thread. It just needs a bit more testing to ensure that there's no evident bugs to be found. smile.gif



Posted by: gothemasticator Nov 2 2009, 10:38 AM

Delte,

You mentioned that you use OBGE. I wonder what for? Is it not just an OBSE plugin to enable one to use certain shader mods? Meaning, it doesn't do anything on its own, right? Or am I misunderstanding?

If I've got it right, then what mods do you use that make use of the plugin?

gothemasticator

EDIT: On your "List" post, you've got the wrong link for Moldy Ingredients. Yours points to Knights of the While Stallion. It should point http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=5065.

gtm



Posted by: ABO Nov 2 2009, 02:37 PM

QUOTE (gothemasticator @ Nov 2 2009, 04:38 AM)
You mentioned that you use OBGE. I wonder what for? Is it not just an OBSE plugin to enable one to use certain shader mods? Meaning, it doesn't do anything on its own, right? Or am I misunderstanding?

If I've got it right, then what mods do you use that make use of the plugin?

For people using OBGE, or who are willing to use it, I can recommend my http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=21424, which provides a realistic tunnel-vision effect as an immersive near-death warning. It also has an immersive disease visual effect and can make diseases a little nastier with optional slow fatigue and health drains as diseases progress without treatment. Its very light-weight and has no complaints in over 3700 downloads.

BTW, is anyone interested in me making a "Realistic Effects" mod bundle with Realistic Fatigue, Realistic Health, and Realistic Leveling all together as a single *.esm?


Posted by: Proud_NL Nov 2 2009, 02:47 PM

QUOTE (ABO @ Nov 2 2009, 08:37 AM)
For people using OBGE, or who are willing to use it, I can recommend my http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=21424, which provides a realistic tunnel-vision effect as an immersive near-death warning. It also has an immersive disease visual effect and can make diseases a little nastier with optional slow fatigue and health drains as diseases progress without treatment. Its very light-weight and has no complaints in over 3700 downloads.

BTW, is anyone interested in me making a "Realistic Effects" mod bundle with Realistic Fatigue, Realistic Health, and Realistic Leveling all together as a single *.esm?


Sounds like good idea. I think most people already use them together, but all with seperate .esms and .esps. I would certainly download the pack.



Posted by: Delte Nov 2 2009, 03:07 PM

QUOTE (gothemasticator @ Nov 2 2009, 04:38 AM)
EDIT: On your "List" post, you've got the wrong link for Moldy Ingredients. Yours points to Knights of the While Stallion. It should point http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=5065.

gtm


Got it. Thanks. Fixed.



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