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Anders Behring Breivik Court Transcript 2012-06-08 Live Report

Source: live.tv2.no/22-juli-rettssaken-direkte/dag-33/

Friday June 8, 2012

8:51 Welcome to last rettsdag this week in 22 July issue.

8:53 The first witness today is scheduled to child psychiatrist who observed Breivik and family when he was little.

8:55 Wednesday discussed how the court will decide whether this testimony will take place behind closed doors. The reason is that the County has closed doors in court as a requirement that the psychiatrist should be able to get lifted its secrecy.

8:55 The reason again is that Breivik's mother and the defendant himself has withdrawn the license earlier gave to the child psychiatrist on the abolition of the duty of confidentiality.

9:05 Furthermore, Professor Ulrik Fredrik Malt to be a witness. This diploma is displayed directly on tv2.no and TV 2 News Channel.

9:06 After lunch is scheduled psychologist Svenn Torgersen witness. This diploma is displayed directly on tv2.no and TV 2 News Channel.
9:06 Finally, a psychiatrist Randi Rosenqvist witness.

9:15 Professors Malt and Torgersen will give his assessment of defendant's sanity.

9:23 The court set at 09:30.

9:28 Breivik enters the courtroom.

9:34 Breivik was taken out of the courtroom 250 The court is not until 09:45.

9:41 Professor of psychiatry Ulrik Fredrik Malt is obtained by aid lawyers to consider the question of sanity.

9:42 There are two different expert reports on the defendant. The first written by Sørheim and Husby concluded that Breivik is insane and therefore can not be punished for massacre 22 July.

9:43 The second expert report from Tørrissen Aspaas and have concluded that Breivik is sane and therefore can be held accountable for what he has done.

9:45 Breivik is back in Courtroom 250 The judges arrive.

9:46 The judge will read the court's decision on the witness Per Olav Næss.

9:46 The court will not allow the child psychiatrist Per Olav Næss can testify.

9:47 Judge Arntzen read from the Health Personnel Act.

9:48 The court believes that the reason for breaking confidentiality does not outweigh what is referred to as the principle of necessity clause.

9:49 Arntzen: - The court believes that it is already known from the Breivik-family residence at the family center at the time is good enough discussed in expert reports.

9:50 Arntzen: - The court's decision is unanimous. Why can not Næss witness here today.

9:51 The first witness is Ulrik Fredrik Malt. He works at the National Hospital and professor of psychiatry.

9:51 Malt gives assurance to the court.

9:51 Malt has a presentation he has prepared.

9:52 There are prosecutors who have called Malt. Inga Bejer Engh takes the word.

9:53 Bejer Engh Malt ask to speak on his experience in clinical and forensic psychiatry.

9:53 Malt: - I am a psychiatrist and has worked in psychiatry since 1974. I have researched a lot on mental illness and meets many patients. I have not prepared judicial observations, but has been much in court.

9:54 Malt: - I come here as someone who has read the papers and rated them based on the knowledge front to understand mental illness, but I have not evaluated the defendant and have never spoken to him or seen him. Therefore, I reiterate that I come here as a researcher.

9:55 Malt: - I think that some of the criticisms that have come from one particular set of experts has been unreasonable. It has almost been a witch hunt against one particular psychiatrist set.

9:56 Malt: - I know all four through the academic environment. We need to see why they come to different conclusions and weigh this up against each other.

9:56 Malt: - So we have two declarations that come with the opposite conclusion.

9:57 Malt explains general questions to find such a conclusion.

9:57 Malt: - Specific questions are whether there is a psychosis? Is there a personality disorder?

9:58 Malt: - I will do something unusual. I will make a hypothesis and try to explain why they have come to different conclusions.

9:59 Malt: - What is a psychiatric diagnosis? It is a rough grouping of knowledge and consensus-based descriptions of symptoms, behavior and character.

10:00 Malt: - For when there is already as you understand, that to collect information is very important.

10:00 Malt: - Equal diagnosis does NOT mean that patients are alike in all respects.

10:01 Malt: - I will also draw in other diagnoses, which I think is relevant to the case. But I would emphasize that those who have the same diagnosis should not feel offended.

10:02 The experts included on the Malts well with the explanation.

10:02 Malt: - How is a diagnosis? It is a targeted, knowledge-driven conversation. It's not a journalist call, but in addition to our knowledge and we turn the conversation to questions we want answered.

10:02 Malt: - There is one point in the case that there are two ways to do it.

10:03 Malt: - One is the blue book. The clinical guidelines. It says something about what a clinical diagnosis should include, is that right, you give the diagnosis.

10:04 Malt: - The other is the green book. It is not entirely translated into Norwegian. However, all assessors must have the book. To obtain a diagnosis, there must be such and such, and it is not so it must be so and so ...

10:04 Malt: - My impression is that I think some of the experts have used the blue book. Therefore, one can end up with a different point of view.

10:05 Malt: - It is clear that we must have a call and get information from the patient in this way. But to ensure that you do not forget to ask about things we've questionnaires. It may look like a memo.

10:06 Painted now explains the difference of two ICD-10 forms, which are used to make diagnoses. There are differences in the Norwegian and the international form, and painted the first experts believe the couple have only used one of them.

10:06 Malt: - In regular practice, it has little significance. But in some cases it has something to say. Should you do it correctly, then it is okay to use semi-structured questionnaires, but there should be a support.

10:08 Malt: - The object of using both methods is to cross-check. So you go in from two sides and get compliance. If you do not comply, it may be that the patient is inconsistent, but it could also be that we professionals are wrong.

10:08 Malt: - Some of these forms are very easy to discern. For example, if the person does not want to be sick.

10:08 Malt talks about margins of error in diagnosis. This particularly applies if the person being investigated is trying to fool psychiatrists. The questions are easy to discern.

10:08 Malt: - For example, you are asked if you want to kill someone, you say no. So they are easy to discern.

10:09 Malt: - There is something here that the forms do not work. In this case it is used different questionnaires that have led to different conclusions.

10:10 Malt: - What you can do is to use different sets of questionnaires that have different questions, but gives the same answers. These are difficult to penetrate for one who wants to avoid showing that he is sick.

10:11 One of the methods to counter the margin of error is to check the bearing diagnosis using different methods and tests. Malt believes this is not done in the first report, which concluded that Breivik was irresponsible.

10:11 Malt: - Other types of methods that could be used here, is not used.

10:12 Malt: - I wish we had had access to an entire record to the defendant and not simply a discharge summary. It is possible that the experts have had access to all records from Breivik's childhood.

10:12 Breivik talks with his defense.

10:13 Judge Arntzen asked prosecutors whether the court has had access to the journals of Breivik.

10:13 Malt: - In addition, it is desirable to cognitive studies. So how to argue based on logic and so on. It wanted the experts, but the defendant did not want it themselves.

10:14 Malt: - If we get bite for different reasons we could cross-checked the results. Does not happen this one is hampered in its work with the report and therefore one has to interpret the findings you have.

10:15 Malt: - When it comes to biological investigations as we have for example, measurement of blood flow through the brain. Such studies may help to support the clinical studies. However, since the defendant does not have wanted this, it is difficult to check.

10:16 Breivik look much into the table during Malts explanation. He pays close attention to what the professor says.

10:16 Malt: - Breivik went really in reverse when it was talking about an IQ survey, since he believes that he is very intelligent, but do not know.

10:16 Malt said that it would be desirable to carry out an MRI scan.

10:17 Arntzen: - To what extent can his performance in whole or in part, fill in the missing?

10:17 Malt: - I think so, but we can take it to an end.

10:17 Malt: - So the question is whether different assessors give a different diagnosis.

10:18 Malt rattles off four points that can affect this.

10:18 The experts taking notes during Malts explanation.

10:19 1. Different information
10:19 2. Different observation (biological signs and cognitive functions)
10:19 3. Different interpretations
10:19 4. Different criteria (guidelines)

10:19 Breivik smiling when Malt says that the defendant tailored his testimony.

10:19 Painted dishes criticism of psychiatry colleagues who have spoken out in the press about how the investigation of Breivik has done. This is because the Malt Breivik notes that have had access to newspapers and television in prison.

10:20 Malt: - We're in a situation where the four assessors sitting with different types of information.

10:21 Malt: - When you work, and to observe a human being. Partly, you want to listen, watch and listen to understand. At the same time you have to distance themselves as being a fly on the wall. One must look at the movement as well.

10:21 Malt explains what kind of characters that can provide additional information.

10:21 Malt is critical that the father of Breivik not interviewed by the experts, but also points out that the father has the right to refuse.

10:22 Malt: - For example, the one set of experts noticed some eye movements. But it is not certain it has something to say.

10:23 Malt: - Then comes the more such things as different interpretation. How do we interpret what the patient says. Here one has when one type of problems that are related to something we can call response-set.

10:24 Aid lawyers talking together during the testimony of Malt.

10:24 Malt: - Response-set is that we want every question shall be considered independent. If we say that the patient is crazy, then each and every question to have the first place. Then the next questions will be affected by this.

10:24 Defender Lippestad notterer part while the Malt speak.

10:25 Malt: - In this case we have exactly what basically what they have actually performed and that shook a nation.

10:25 Painted dishes criticism of what he calls a witch hunt against Sørheim and Husby.

10:25 Malt: - They are highly competent professionals.

10:27 Malt: - The second is the halo effect. For example, when it comes to whether a game is legal, so there is a question whether one works or not in employment, etc.

10:28 Halo effect is about to pull into factors that have nothing to do with it, said Malt.

10:28 Malt: - What does it mean to be snobbish? I know where there is so that if you do not brag about how good you are, then you are abnormal. This is the question of narssisisme.

10:28 Malt:-Political framework also means something in the assessment.

10:29 Malt: - In religion, politics and love, one should be reluctant to make psychiatric diagnoses.

10:30 Malt: - The last thing that comes out differently when it comes to diagnosis is the interpretation. I'll show examples.

10:31 Prosecutors and defenders will be waiting with questions of Malt made statements completed.

10:32 Malt: - The first question we must discuss is whether there is a psychosis or not. I will not draw any conclusions here, just argue for or not.

10:32 Aid attorneys believe Malt must say something more about the background and how much he knows about the case.

10:33 Malt: - I was sitting in another room the first five days when Breivik explained himself. I've been in this hall one of the other days. Monday I was here for a special reason and concentrated on Breivik. I've also been reading Uncensored versions of expert reports. I have also read parts of Breivik's manifest, not the whole.

10:34 Malt: - The performances maintained in spite of information on accuracy.

10:35 Malt: - If we look at the delusions. The standard is that a delusion denotes an incorrect or unreasonable idea occurred morbid basis, as permitted be absolute truth.

10:35 Malt: - Is delusions plausible or impossible?

10:35 Malt: - In the case of delusions as assessed according to background information about pas, life situation, surroundings (including subculture)

10:36 Malt: - Are they plausible or impossible. Defended the affectively by the patient.

10:36 Malt: - A person with delusions may work flawless on other issues than where he or she has delusions.

10:37 Malt: - If the "isolated", the person may also seem upåfallende for others.

10:37 Malt: - A delusion does not mean you are paranoid schizophrenic or a psychosis. It is not specific for a diagnosis.

10:38 Malt: - The classic delusion is the CIA is after you. It's unlikely.

10:38 Breivik look at when prosecutors painted explains different delusions.

10:39 Malt: - The second is self perceived delusions. This applies to TV and newspapers. For example, one sees that something is perceived that there is a code directly to them.

10:39 Malt: - The third of you coming in here is grandeur delusions. For example, that you are Napoleon or Jesus. That one has great delusions about who you are and do in this world.

10:41 Malt: - The classic in schizophrenia is a bizar delusion. For example, I say that I have been on Mars and is now being directed from there.

10:41 Malt explains examples of bizarre delusions that someone has operates in something of the body used by others to control him.

10:42 Malt: - Being strangely dressed and stuff, will not normally be a delusion.

10:42 - Bizarre delusions are beyond the physically possible, said Malt.

10:43 Malt: - I remind the psychology behind delusions. They feel insecure. have inferiority may be exposed to a life event in some way provoked.

10:43 Painted using asylum seekers as an example of uncertainty, since they do not know the Norwegian culture and thus can react to things we take for granted and call everyday.

10:43 Malt: - It is important to this case is that if you change the function of your brain. Then you will also be predisposed to develop ideas that someone is looking for you.

10:44 Malt believe that hallucinations are not relevant in this case.

10:45 Malt: - Now we come to the first tricky question. Is there a paranoid schizophrenic?

10:45 Malt: - I do not have the same basis as the experts, and take this from an academic standpoint.

10:46 Malt: - In this case, Norwegian psychiatric law that applies. And when should you use the green book.

10:46 Malt: - A. Grunnkritierine for schizophrenia must be met.

10:47 Malt: - There must be emotional flattening, affektinkongruens, catatonic symptoms, or incoherent speech must not dominate the clinical picture although these may be present in light level.

10:47 Malt: - If the basic criteria are not met, the diagnosis falls. If they are, you can move on.

10:47 Malt: - B: Delusions or hallucinations must be prominent (such as persecution performances, selvhenføring, jealousy, threatening or commanding voices, sexual or other bodily sensations ... but I can not see that is relevant here.

10:48 Malt rattles off because the criteria for scizofreni.

10:48 Malt: - Delusions must be controlled, influenced by outside forces. I have not seen or seen in the reports.

10:49 Malt has not seen the basic criteria for schizophrenia among the accused in court, or described in the reports from the experts.

10:50 Malt: - Does that mean that the defendant did not suffer from scizofreni? No, it does not have to do.

10:51 Malt shows another overview of the criteria that must be met.

10:53 Malt rattles off a) Persistent hallucinations, b) neologisms, thought-out, c) catatonic behavior, such as rigid posturing or waxy flexibility or irellevant speech. d) "negative symptoms" such as severe lethargy, interrupted speech.

10:53 Malt: - There are several observations in the first experts have done, which is good, but they have not gone further with them in a good enough way.

10:54 Malt: - When I read the description from Ila, I agree with Aspaas and Tørrissen.

10:54 Malt: - It's a huge burden on families and affected to sit here in the courtroom. But there are also defendants. I can not see that it has been incoherently emotional response.

10:55 Malt: - The first expert has some very good observations, but that does not mean they are right.

10:55 Malt should now speak of paranoid psychosis.

10:55 Malt: - If it is not paranoid scizofreni is it unacceptable? No, it can then be a paranoid psychosis. And it is advanced.

10:56 Malt: - What is the big question of the existence of grandiose delusions.

10:57 Malt refers to excerpts from the manifesto to Breivik is grandiose.

10:57 Malt talking about Breivik grandeur delusions that he is commander of a large European network, and that he is a hero to rescue the European people.

10:58 Malt: - It is something that may suggest that this is delusional.

10:58 Malt: - When Breivik sat in his bedroom, he is not your fingers in between what he wrote, or he suffers from grandiose delusions?

10:59 Malt is pointing at it as moving in the direction of grandeur delusions is that some of the performances Breivik has to save Europe.

10:59 Malt: - Some of these performances are known from the ideological literature. It is also important that he not fight for this trial.

11:00 Malt: - The fact that he was persuaded not to make the uniform in court, do not fit with the grandeur delusion.

11:00 Malt: - He regrets civilian casualties, it does not fit into the grandeur delusions.

11:00 Malt said that Breivik's statement that he dreaded the trial, not consistent with such an image.

11:01 Malt: - My task is not to take a position here, but look at it academically.

11:01 Malt: - It can not be ruled out that he's paranoid psychosis.

11:01 Arntzen: - Will a paranoid psychosis utivkle in the same manner as paranoid schizophrenia?

11:02 Malt: - If you like this in we have to think clinically. But differential diagnosis is that there is something else that stands with paranoid psychosis. So honestly, we say that not everyone thinks this is the plank driving.

11:03 Malt will now talk about personality disorders.

11:03 Malt: - From an academic standpoint, I find no evidence of paranoid schiszofreni, but not sure of paranoid psychosis.

11:04 Malt does now explain the basic criteria of personality disorders.

11:05 Malt: - As far as I can see is not the criteria for personality disorders discussed explicitly in the second report.

11:06 Personality disorders have something to cognition, affectivity, control, and the way we relate to others, says Malt.

11:07 Malt: - There is something about his emotionality that are not normal.

11:07 Malt: - It may be that he has problems with control of impulses and needs satisfaction.

11:07 Malt: - When you look at how the defendant reacts to what they are concerned is applied, then there is something about the emotional here.

11:08 Malt: - The criteria for a personality disorder can be met.

11:09 Malt: - That which discusses all the basic criteria for personality disorders. The really tricky point is that there must be evidence that the deviations are stable and have been long in beginning in late childhood or youth.

11:09 Malt talking now about when the symptoms may have come. There is no good consensus for this in Norway, said Malt.

11:09 Malt: - The usual way is to ignore this and just look at adult age.

11:10 Malt: - It has been bizarre to see how the first experts have been treated.

11:10 Malt: - The experts must have looked at personality disorders.

11:11 Malt: - If we were to make the diagnosis of antisocial personality disorder, the following criteria must be met.

11:12 Malt: - Should we make this diagnosis, so it must have been present prior to 22 July. In my opinion we should not take what happened then.

11:12 Indifference to others' feelings, persistent irresponsible attitude. Inability to maintain relationships, a low threshold for aggressive outbursts, feelings of guilt and tendency to give others the blame if Breivik will be diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder.

11:12 Malt: - What happens if we omit it.

11:12 Malt: - At least three of the criteria must be present.

11:13 Malt: - He is described by friends as a warm and caring. He is described as a cold bastard who does not care about others.

11:14 Breivik laugh Malts remarks about how some of Oslo West ignores social norms.

11:14 Malt: - We know the Oslo-west community well knows that it is common to have a sustained ansvarløs attitude and disregard for social norms, rules and obligations.

11:15 The right laugh Malts statement Oslo West.

11:15 Malt: - My personal assessment of the academic catheter, where I have a handicap since I have not talked to him, so I do not think he got the diagnosis of antisocial personality disorder.

11:15 Malt talking about narcissistic personality.

11:16 Malt: - When we were making the Norwegian book of its time, should it be determined whether we would have with narcissistic personality disorder. We'll take it for reflection.

11:16 Malt: - We took it, but as an additional diagnosis without criteria. So we must use the U.S. criteria.

11:17 Narcissistic personality disorder is characterized by: A pervasive pattern characterized by grandeur shows, need for admiration and lack of empathy that begins in early adolescence and that are expressed in different contexts.

11:17 Malt: - It starts in early adolescence will also be five or more of several criteria.

11:18 Malt mention it to have an inflated sense of importance. For example, Breivik wrote the manifesto for themselves at home.

11:19 Malt mentions a number of criteria such as fantasies, that he is special and unique.

11:19 Five or more of these points must be present: Experiences of importance, fantasies that people experience themselves as unique or special, need for admiration, that they have special rights, lack of empathy, arrogant, arrogant, jealous and exploitative.

11:19 Malt: - Now comes the question, the court must ask, we psychiatrists and we as a society must answer.

11:20 Judge Arntzen requested a break and let the question hang painted in the air.

11:23 The court has to break 11:40.

11:39 Malt discuss with the experts before the court made.

11:40 It seems to be a friendly atmosphere between the five.

11:42 Breivik entered in the court after the break.

11:43 Proceedings continue.

11:43 Lippestad ask for the floor for a brief comment.

11:44 Lippestad: - I must say that this is interesting. What I now see is to go into an academic assessment of possible other diagnoses. This is not in the mandate of the experts.

11:44 Lippestad: - Based on the strong privacy, we ask that precluded this possibility.

11:45 Arntzen: - I would like to hear the prosecution's view.

11:45 Lippestad desire that malt is not allowed to continue his presentation.

11:45 Engh: - We believe this is relevant.

11:46 Engh: - I see it Lippestad says, but it will be crucial to the case.

11:46 Engh: - We need to hear more about any other diagnoses that can explain the actions.

11:46 Engh believes that it is highly relevant that the malt is allowed to continue his presentation.

11:47 Arntzen asked the prosecutor whether prosecutors will ask the court to not consider other possible diagnoses Malt will present.

11:47 Lawyer Larsen has no objections to that painted on. - It is about understanding the actions, says Larsen.

11:48 Larsen: - He suggests a diagnosis, and we think that what is important now is for our clients.

11:48 Larsen: - This is a scientific explanation.

11:48 Lawyer Yvonne Mette Larsen points out that there were those who asked for the Malt and they believe that what he explains is also important for their clients' understanding of the perpetrator.

11:48 Malt comment on what he wants to do.

11:49 After Malts opinion of the experts interpreted the characters from Breivik wrong.

11:49 Malt: - It is true some of the observations the experts have done, but that they are misinterpreted.

11:50 Lippestad: - What is our main point is that the experts are required a mandate, and alternative diagnoses are not part of the mandate. Malt has not received a mandate from the court.

11:50 Lippestad suggest that the court takes a short break and look at what Malt displays.

11:51 Lippestad: - It is a scholarly evaluation of the tentative diagnoses that have not been an issue in the committee reports, and are not part of their mandate.

11:52 Arntzen ask Lippestad say more about the privacy, he believes exists.

11:52 Engh: - It is important to hear the alternatives, then the experts argue for or against these options.

11:52 Judge Arntzen requesting aid lawyers talk about the mandate they have given Malt.

11:53 Larsen: - It is unclear what legal Lippestad use to intercept the ore.

11:53 Judge Arne Lyng asks court players rethink whether it will now be broadcast.

11:53 Lippestad: - Where applicable, we think this will not be broadcast.

11:54 Holden gets the word.

11:55 Holden: - In the first place, we can expect that the witness comes into the conditions that the court has previously decided to cut off because of confidentiality. We agree with Lippestad that broadcasting should not be permitted to be on the safe side.

11:55 Aftenposten editor Harald Stanghelle statements on behalf of the press as to why this should be broadcast.

11:57 The court takes a break until at 13

13:00 Breivik entered in the court room 250 after the break. He speaks with his defense Kvinge Isolated Ground.

13:02 Malt discuss with Lippestad put before the court.

13:03 The judges have set themselves and the negotiations continue.

13:04 Lippestad: - Before we get to hear the court's assessment, I have some new arguments.

13:04 Lippestad want to say something.

13:04 Lippestad: - For us it has reached new information in court today. What we now have performed a new expert report, we believe.

13:05 Lippestad: - We received the final report last night, and powerpoint presentation today.

13:05 Lippestad: - This is obviously a psychiatric evaluation by an expert for the prosecution wishes.

13:05 Lippestad call Malts presentation of a new expert report.

13:06 Lippestad: - There is provided a report of 54 pages to the prosecuting authority.

13:06 Lippestad: - It has the heading "Psychiatric assessment of ABB"

13:07 Lippestad: - It is emphasized that this should not be a new report, but a certificate for the relevant diagnoses.

13:07 Lippestad: - When we claim that this is a report, has not met the procedural rules.

13:07 Arntzen: - Do you think that the court should have given a mandate?

13:08 Lippestad: - It should have been given a mandate by the prosecuting authorities, and a case about the mandate and who to appoint.

13:08 Lippestad: - This statement should be sent to the Rettsmedisisnke Commission.

13:08 Lippestad: - We have not had the opportunity to make real objections earlier.

13:09 Lippestad call it a procedural error.

13:10 Prosecutors Engh believes Lippestad using the wrong section.

13:10 Prosecutors Engh: - We have discussed the several weeks of player meetings. I would say that we are fully aware that if we are in the Criminal Procedure Act 148 should be a mandate. We have agreed that we are not in 148, but in Section 149 that allows for expert witnesses from both the defense and prosecution. They say good extent that it is not necessary with private experts here. But there is no prohibition against it.

13:11 Engh: - When we got to know what Malt would present, we said that it was okay and that this would support his testimony and not used as evidence. Witnesses are allowed to bring writings, but this should not be submitted to the court.

13:11 Engh believes the presentation of Malt only in support of his explanation, and not a separate expert report.

13:11 Engh: - This submission from Lippestad came as a surprise to me since we have discussed this at previous meetings.

13:12 Engh: - A preliminary draft of Malts notes have previously been sent to participants.

13:12 Larsen: - We agree with the prosecution. I sent the note 16 May, and it does not deviate much from the Malt will explain all about now.

13:13 Arntzen asked whether this report was also discussed.

13:13 Larsen: - We have discussed this in the player meetings. We have agreed that he is in Section 149

13:13 Engh: - You do not have a mandate if he is in Section 149

13:13 Arntzen: - If we are in 148 to Lippestad mean, it must submit a mandate.

13:14 Lippestad: - This is the prosecution expert, and that it is presented a written document to the court. It was explicitly stated in the meetings that this would not happen.

13:15 Arntzen: - Lippestad? If it had been presented to a presentation as an alternative to powerpoint presentation, it would have been different?

13:16 Lippestad - This was intended as a support for the committee's report. What we face is a new expert evaluation, which is far beyond the mandate of the experts. It is not in line with what we discussed in the meetings. We would not have a fifth statement.

13:16 Lippestad are stuck in that he believes that it is committed procedural errors.

13:16 Lippestad: - It is not right to hear more now. What consequences would be, we must come back to.

13:17 Arntzen: - Have you been aware that witnesses can comment on the forthcoming expert statements?

13:18 Lippestad: - We have been prepared for the experts to do is give us more guidelines, but we do not intend for the experts to come up with new diagnoses. It requires that we prepare for new diagnoses and how to deal with them.

13:18 Arntzen: - This with Asperger's syndrome are discussed in the experts' conclusions. It is also with Tourette's. So it's not the first time these diagnoses mentioned.

13:18 Lippestad: - But there are diagnoses of Malts document that is new.

13:19 Larsen interrupts.

13:19 Lippestad: - This is new compared to what the experts have discussed.

13:19 Arntzen Malt ask whether there are other diagnoses that are mentioned.

13:19 Lippestad discuss with Malt.

13:19 Malt said that there are several diagnoses.

13:20 Lippestad: - There are more diagnoses than Aspergers and Tourettes in your presentation.

13:20 Arntzen concerned look out and ask if there are more comments.

13:20 Malt said this is the differential diagnoses.

13:20 Larsen said that the argument from Lippestad clearly shows that they have a different opinion now than before the break.

13:21 Arntzen: - Can you clarify this, Lippestad?

13:21 Lippestad: - I do not think I can clarify this some more, both standing for teams, both what we said before and after lunch. We believe this is a procedural error.

13:21 Arntzen: - When the court pull back and considering the submissions of the defense that has been received.

13:26 There is a clear conflict of Breivik's defense team and prosecutors and aid lawyers on the other side.

13:36 Participants in court talking to each other in the judges' absence.

13:37 The witness Ulrik Fredrik Malt walk around the courtroom and talk with both the expert witnesses in the case and prosecutors.

13:45 The players are beginning to find their seats again in the saddle 250 The judges will soon be on its way again.

13:46 Breivik carried back to his place in the courtroom.

13:51 The judges come back in the saddle 250

13:52 Arntzen reads out why they continue with Malt

13:52 Judge Arntzen says that the court allow Malt will continue his testimony.

13:53 Arntzen: - Malt will come up with alternative explanations, even if it involves alternative diagnoses. The Court has not been handed over the note, and Anns him under section 149

13:53 Arntzen: - Radio will not have consequences for the defendants.

13:54 Arntzen Malt ask to speak up if he gets into things, specific information that should not be broadcast.

13:54 Arntzen: - There does not appear that you add up to very sensitive information about the defendant.

13:55 Malt: - where we were .... was that I said we had no basis for paranoid schizophrenia, but that the observations the experts have done had interesting elements.

13:56 Engh points out that Malt to tell whether there is a paranoid psychosis or not.

13:56 Malt: - Some observations suggest that.

13:57 Malt talking about Breivik's explanation of the meetings of the Knights Templar Network.

13:57 Malt: - There is nothing to suggest, but most speak against.

13:58 Malt: - There is described a number of observations from him as a child described as a discrepancy. There are some behavioral variables showing things.

13:58 Malt presents examples of some explanatory problems associated with diagnoses that are proposed.

13:58 Breivik talking Lippestad during this part of the Malts explanation.

13:58 Malt: - For example, he falls out of school. He stops in the third gym.

13:59 Malt: - One can also say something about his extreme depressions in the way he planned and presented the diagnosis. One may well have a narcissistic personality, but it can not explain this.

14:00 Malt: - He talks about that he has written 4,000 pages. There is so much that one can be a writer, but there are also indications of this disease.

14:01 Deviant behavior as children, extreme specialization in topics such as weapons, the urge to write, dedicated work over many years, extreme killing tanks before 20 years, Breivik strange expression, that he keep coming back to "their" own theme are examples of explanatory problems by diagnosis .

14:01 Malt: - Another thing that it does not explain. The way I understood it right, he was asked if he had thoughts about killing someone before he was 20 years. And he explained that he had. It is special. Sometimes there is a undelig way to express themselves is striking.

14:02 Malt: - He always returns to themes. In the beginning, he was interrupted several times that he would go to the end, he replied politely, but continued where he left off.

14:02 That Breivik is concerned with numbers, the "machine-related killing," and it Breivik describes as "ULEV injustice" are also examples, argues Malt.

14:02 Malt: - He has also a very social manner. No one could dream that he would do what he did. It explained nor in diagnoses.

14:02 Breivik smiles as he pours the water.

14:03 Malt: - He is also very concerned with numbers and percentages. This is so striking that one has to ask the question whether there are conditions where applicable.

14:04 Malt: - To blow up a bomb, people have done before. But to go ashore on an island and shoot down people in such a way that is done is very special. One must look at whether there is a disease that makes you get such a machine-like performance.

14:04 Breivik smiles when Malt says Breivik tells of the murders of Utøya "as if he was out and picked cherries."

14:04 Malt: - The same goes for what he describes as "ULEV injustice."

14:05 He refers to Breivik's explanation about why he carried out 22 July.

14:05 Breivik smiling and drinking water.

14:05 - Breivik superficial and unmotivated gaiety that are inappropriate to the theme is very striking, said Malt.

14:06 Malt: - The excessive interest in a single theme, and detail are also signs.

14:06 Malt shows a list of which at least three of the characteristics must have been present ovcer a period of at least 6 months or longer.

14:06 Breivik interrupts and says that he finds it offensive.

14:07 Breivik: - This is totally unacceptable. That this broadcast.

14:07 Malt: - This should be the hallmark for certain types of epilepsy, and displayed in the frontal lobe and temples.

14:07 Judge asks Arntzen NRK to cut TV transmission.

14:07 Arntzen calms Breivik with him to get comment on this later.

14:08 Malt: - We can not exclude that there are, but we do not think that this is a likely explanation.

14:08 Malt said he did not have the sense to infringe Breivik and that he can rephrase it.

14:08 Malt refers to high-functioning autism and Asperger syndrome.

14:09 Malt refers to the following points about Asperger's and high functioning autism: debut in early age, understanding of other people, empathy failures, communication style, specific interests, that one instance. prioritize games over people, loneliness and depression.

14:10 Malt said he will not go into detail, but that it is highly likely that the experiences related to Breivik's childhood, which was observed in four years of age, may have triggered this.

14:10 Malt: - 99.999 percent of those who will not be criminals.

14:11 Malt: - Those who feel that they have these symptoms will learn social rules, but they have a theoretical relationship with empathy.

14:11 Malt: - They may say they understand that others suffer, such as Breivik has done.

14:12 Malt: - You can go to a party and talk about this and that, doing business, etc. But when you come into an area where you will share and understand each other's feelings, so there is not. One can not establish lasting relationships.

14:12 Malt: - It is actually also very psychologically lonely.

14:13 Breivik laughs again during Malts explanation.

14:13 Malt: - They are in a so-called psychological prison.

14:14 Malt: - That this disease is also associated with is that they can very much about a topic. They can learn a lot of detail. But when they talk, they will often mention monotonous. They use less fillers and they will also have a remarkable tendency to say the same in many ways. And so we Breivik in the beginning.

14:15 Malt: - I notice that friends say Breivik was very clumsy, but that he could learn things.

14:15 Malt: - Most people can not complete a full degree.

14:16 Malt: - They will not be able to be in a permanent job over time.

14:16 Malt: - It is common for psychiatrists to believe that this is incipient schizophrenia.

14:17 Malt refers to a Swedish study in which four percent showed signs of psychosis.

14:18 Malt: - If we look at diagnostic criteria. So we see that the criteria says that there should be some button on the different criteria.

14:19 Malt rattles off: that they do not use eye contact, they are not able to develop, in relation to mental age and in spite of sufficient opportunities.

14:19 Malt refers to the diagnostic criteria for Asperger's Syndrome: Not using eye contact, facial expressions, body posture and gestures appropriately. They will not be able to develop friendships with peers who embody the common interests, activities and emotions. They have impaired or deviant response to other people's feelings.

14:19 Eventually they will have a lack of spontaneous kontaksøking to share enjoyable experiences and interests.

14:20 That there is a lack of social reciprocity meosjonell as demonstrated by impaired or deviant response to heed other person's feelings.

14:21 Malt shows that Breivik described as friendly, caring and social, but also stubborn, a little different and an "outsider".

14:21 Malt refers to a point regarding abnormal approach to a toy and say this was observed when Breivik was observed in four years of age. Malt will not go into detail on this.

14:22 Malt: - It is likely that it is true Asperger's syndrome.

14:22 Malt: - The other experts have spent much time looking at about Asperger's is present, but they have concluded that he did not have it.

14:23 Malt: - But the methods have not been sensitive or specific enough to pick it up.

14:24 Malt: - One can learn techniques to learn to cope with Asperger's. For example, you see so many seconds of a person, and looked even further. But the methods used by the experts have not looked at this.

14:24 Malt: - I can not be categorical, because I have not examined Breivik yourself.

14:25 Malt said that despite the fact that he has not even investigated Breivik, he means that there is reason to believe that Asperger syndrome is present.

14:25 Malt talks about how Breivik respond to punishment. Children with Asperger's often do not understand why they get punished.

14:26 Malt: - 90 percent of those who get this depression.

14:26 Malt: - As a result of depression will have problems with loneliness.

14:27 Malt: - They would like to retire, not like touch, feel that they no longer look good. Appeal of the food, and they may for example be sitting with computer games for a long time and just play and play.

14:28 Malt: - So far so good, but there is still something that can not be explained by this method here.

14:28 Malt hypergrafien talking about, ie that Breivik has written a lot.

14:28 Breivik believes he has written over 4000 pages before he shortened it was his so-called manifesto.

14:29 Malt: - If hypergrafien, that is, for example, write 4000 pages, this one is targeted work. The Norwegian, who belong to our community. He sits for several years and work. He has this hardware-related way to kill people on the Utøya.

14:29 Malt: - Is there anything that can explain this? Yes, that's it.

14:29 Malt is now pointing at the Gilles de la Tourette syndrome.

14:29 Malt: - Most people who have this lovable people.

14:30 Malt: - But very few of them have extreme killing tanks.

14:31 Malt said that some of those who have this diagnosis is very grotesque thoughts about killing and ritual murder. Something they are very frightened of themselves.

14:31 Malt talking about tics, which are involuntary, rapid, repetitive, unrhythmic muscle movements or sudden and aimless vocal sounds.

14:31 Tics can be suppressed according painted, but often comes up when the person is tired or under stress.

14:31 Malt: - So the question is, has Breivik tics?

14:31 Malt points out that the police interrogation of Breivik described what is probably the tics. That he was smiling in places that are completely abnormal.

14:32 Breivik laughing while Malm talking about his movements.

14:32 Malt studied Breivik's facial expressions on Monday, and states that Breivik has more tics.

14:33 Painted on the screen shows how the gaze of a person with tics will act.

14:33 It has a more visual virrete time than a person without tics.

14:34 Malt: - It is described on Utøya that he had a kind of grunting and strange sounds. It will fit well with a person with tics.

14:34 Malt said that the cries Breivik should have come with the Utøya suggests tics. This is because he was stressed.

14:34 Malt: - Occasionally some may begin to say the same words over and over again.

14:34 Malt Breivik notes that repeats itself, and that there is little variation in his language.

14:35 Malt: - In addition, it will be possible with this count. Something that is clearly described with this type of patients. They are very concerned about numbers.

14:35 Malt: - If we sum this up, we find very many of the diagnostic criteria for Tourette syndrome.

14:35 Malt summarizes that children with Tourette's may have ADHD-like symptoms that small.

14:36 It may also be abnormal seksulet related behaviors related to sexual impulses.

14:36 Malt: - 20 percent of those with Asperger also have Tourettes.

14:37 Malt ask whether this is plausible diagnoses. Asperger's Syndrome + Tourette's syndrome.

14:38 Malt oppsummuerer that you want to make an attempt at a comprehensive understanding.

14:38 - Even if he wishes to emerge as one that does not have feelings, we will from a psychiatric point of view to understand him as a man. The first time I saw Breivik, so I'm not a monster. But a deeply lonely man, said Malt.

14:42 Malt: - People with Asperger responds more strongly to negative comments.

14:42 Malt also points out that Breivik dismissed the first report as a lie and a smear campaign. This is a sign that he can not handle negative comments and they will often lose your grasp.

14:42 Malt: - There are a lot of research on this. Here I wish to show examples of this.

14:43 Malt refers to Utøya when Breivik calling the police.

14:43 Malt: - If we look at Utøya Breivik then called the police and wanted to surrender.

14:43 Malt: - Reading from the police log from the phone when Breivik contacted the police and wanted to surrender.

14:45 Malt: - This may be psychotic, but also Asperger's. He does not receive the necessary additional information to the police in this case needed to understand what the Knights Templar and the commander of this was.

14:45 Malt: - Since we have a man who works in this way, so he may be right that it is ULEV unfair. And that he may be right, it's genetics.

14:45 Malt will now talk about violations Breivik has experienced in adolescence.

14:46 Malt points to Breivik youth experiences where he felt unfairly treated.

14:47 Malt: - Because of his Asperger's disease and he moves further and further into their world. He reads more and more of what some of us believe is political poison. This means that he is in a way, in a situation where his whole world suddenly becomes understandable.

14:47 Malt points through this at a lonely man in Behring Anders Breivik gjennomt three points, see Breivik is vulnerable, that he feels violated and that he pulls into a virtual world.

14:47 Breivik laughs as he listens to what Malt explains.

14:47 Malt: - When you come into an apocalyptic war.

14:48 Breivik seems to pretend that he does not care and gives enough once the water in the cup.

14:48 On Malts last powerpoint page it says: So he sits here in the courtroom 250 Still in his own prison ... And for the rest of his life he will now be sitting in an outer prison.

14:48 Malt: - We are sitting here with a fellow human being.

14:49 Malt: - It is important that we take in on us. This is more than just a ring-wing extremist. This is a tragedy for Norway, a tragedy for us and a tragedy for Breivik.

14:49 Painted finish his explanation.

14:50 Court takes break 15:00 pm

15:05 Breivik laughs and smiles in court. Still with handcuffs on.

15:06 It will open for questions to Malt.

15:06 Engh: - Now you have accounted for some diagnoses that are affected by the experts, and an explanation of a different diagnosis than the four expert witnesses have come forward.

15:07 Malt: - The way I see it, when I have gone through the information I have, so he is mentally ill. Yes.

15:07 Engh: - Is it true that with or without psychosis-hat, so we are talking about a sick man?

15:08 Engh: - If you claim to be the knight in a terrorist network that does not exist, it would be such a delusion?

15:09 Malt: - I see that it is possible to interpret it that way. I do not ignore it. But you have to see what it is. If you sit at home and disguises himself this universe, it is the case, but I see that it can be discussed.

15:10 Engh: - If vedkomne say that I have received a mandate to kill enemies, it will be this kind of delusion?

15:10 Engh: - If he is alone in this opinion?

15:10 Malt: - It can. Here we are over in a border area that goes to the extreme political groups. For example, that you should kill the people behind immigration. But if we had known this, we had the option information. But he's not alone in viewing it. Sadly.

15:11 Engh: - We have had evidence of his ideology, and he's not alone, but the calling he believes to have, that he will kill, it can be defined as a delusion in schizophrenia?

15:11 Malt: - Yes, that is possible in principle that one can do it. My overall assessment is that it does not fit. But I will not be categorical here. My handicap is that I have not talked to him and examined him.

15:12 Engh: - For when it comes to this terrorist network, is our opinion that this does not exist. Will this affect your opinion

15:13 Malt: - If you are normal, to put it that way, I think you can develop these ideas, without being psychotic.

15:13 Engh: - If you go beyond these errors is not appropriate under the paranoid schizophrenia?

15:13 Malt: - It does not fit in paranoid schizophrenia, but more under the second umbrella.

15:14 Engh: - Must vedkomne have some form of cognitive impairment?

15:14 Malt: - It will almost all have. I do not think I've ever seen someone who has had it with this diagnosis.

15:14 Engh: - Will the actions we know Breivik has been made, but planning at least two years, it would be consistent with a diagnosis of schizophrenia?

15:15 Malt: - No, it is not incompatible. But it's some other things that do not fit ... for example, with the census.

15:15 Engh: - What about the ability of rational thinking?

15:15 Malt: - One may in many areas to be rational. For example, we get the Nobel Prize winner in economics that is.

15:16 Engh: - His friends have described a change in 2006, when Breivik is 26 years. He withdraws, becomes quieter and more consumed, and several have mentioned that he loses the spark of life. What opportunities do you see here?

15:17 Malt: - There are two possibilities. The most natural to think of a depression. But it can also be Asperger syndrome that leads to this. There are two possibilities, which of them I can not answer. I do not get this to vote with schizophrenia, therefore, I believe the other is more likely.

15:17 Engh: - And I noted that when it came to Asperger's are often depressed, how early one may expect that these features will turn out?

15:18 Malt: - There is something you are born with. Depression can often come later. It can come in three-four years of age.

15:18 Malt points out that he is no expert on Asperger Syndrome and asks the court to be aware of this.

15:19 Engh: - The first report has been reviewed by DRC, which assesses the premises and have said that they have no pointing out. Are you and the Commission disagreement on how this report is to be understood?

15:20 Malt: - Not necessarily. As I understand the rettsmedinske Commission, they will receive a report that they are considering. But they have not seen Breivik in free activity. They have not spoken to him and how much discussion there has been about neologisms I do not know.

15:21 Malt: - It could be that I'm wrong and the experts are right. But I have Hjo a handicap that I have not talked to him.

15:23 Engh: - What he says about the Knights Templar is a war crimes tribunal, and that he is afraid that the family will be killed and that he is afraid of being tortured, you have some thoughts about it?

15:25 Malt: - The fact that Breivik thought the family would be tortured when he was arrested, it could point toward paranoid schizeofreni.

15:26 Engh: - You talked about how they act when they are challenged on delusions. We have raised questions about Liberia and London, he has maintained all the way, have you seen how he has answered us specifically for these episodes?

15:27 Malt: - I've only heard it the day I have been in court. And sometimes he seems a little inconsistent, which gives me the indication that there is talk of a virtual contact. But sometimes the emotional involvement. But we are in a gray area here. We are.

15:27 Engh: - But if one thinks that the story presents Breivik on Liberia, London and the Baltics are not true. If he believes that he has been there, what does that say about him?

15:29 Malt: - First. It fits well with that you think you've been somewhere else. In a psychotic world, one might think that you have conversed with others somewhere, even if it has not happened. As long as he has been in Liberia, so it must have been that he has coded daily what he has experienced in such a context.

15:29 Malt: - Were you wiser now, it was you might not.

15:29 Engh: - What I wonder is whether you may have experienced this, but later attach to the different content?

15:29 Malt said that this is difficult to explain.

15:30 Engh: - How to attack Mon purely clinically non-verifiable information and delusions?

15:31 Malt: - What we had done would be to ask him to describe this here, and eventually the ongoing questions about the details around this. What we would expect was if he was psychotic nut either been very or extremely angry.

15:31 Malt: - But he is not, as far as I've seen here. So it matches more with what I believe is the case.

15:32 Engh: - How do you assess Mon utsagnenen to a person who is in a group that already is a bit off, that is, with, for example. religion and politics?

15:33 Malt: - The rule of thumb is that we try to avoid to diagnose when it comes to politics and love. I will not be called a paranoid without closing on their own without talking to such families.

15:33 Engh: - Gule described that there was much that was recognizable in the compendium, except in Part 3 Do you know enough to part 3 to comment on that?

15:34 Malt: - No, I have not read it as well. Then I had to read page by page. I've browsed more in it. It seems very special, disclosing and very grand. It agrees with Asperger's, that it does not have roots with the environment.

15:34 Engh: - When it comes to personality disorders, it is something you have, not something you develop?

15:34 Malt: - Personality is something you develop through adolescence. It's not like with Asperger's who you're born with.

15:35 Engh: - When it comes to narcissistic traits, what is it in Breivik's history provides the diagnosis out of 22 July?

15:37 Malt: - When one must therefore go back and look at these criteria. If he had prior to 22 July, from 18 years of age had any of those characteristics, but it can not know for sure. For instance, it treats a feeling that he was very important. That he lacked empathy. We have examples of it now, but we lack the good information. We have only these descriptions from friends. I am also agree with that Aspaas and Tørrissen that it may have been present.

15:38 Engh: - This with Asperger's, they get a functional drop of a tidsdpunkt, how early we would expect to see these traits?

15:38 Malt: - You will already see it in 3-4 years of age. The interaction and play with others. Usually somewhere in their late teens. It could be why he dropped out of high school in the third gym.

15:39 Engh: - You tell your friends and social contacts, they describe him as very social, he was socializing with friends and at work, went out and drank beer with them, he had management responsibility that worked fine, where does Aspergeren in there then, if he is to be poor to interpret the signals?

15:40 Malt: - The way we understand it with such conditions, they have an enormous need to be seen and recognized. They learn also why a set of rules. For example, they can do much, but when they get to the point where they give much of themselves, so they struggle.

15:41 Engh: - They can get along fine in friendship, as long as you do not share feelings. A friend of Breivik says that when he lost his brother, was Breivik a good support, it can not I vote?

15:42 Malt: - What we need to look at as psychiatrists is to pursue this a bit. For one might listen and maybe cry in some situations. But what we would do is to go much closer to the quality of this. We have examples of many people with Asperger's can function very well, but eventually it will demand more and more and they will have problems.

15:43 Malt ask the court to consider, if they believe this with Asperger's Vitka, to obtain an expert on this. Something he is not.

15:45 Engh: - Outline of mental illness, it is something inherited with paranoid psychosis?

15:45 Malt: - It's a classic schizophrenia with inheritance. 70 percent inherit this.

15:46 Engh: - You mean there is a developmental disorder, and that he may have a paranoid psychosis. Do you think the criticism would have been smaller at the first experts if they had landed on the diagnosis?

15:47 Malt: - Yes, I'm sure. That's because there is so much that is not typical of schizophrenia.

15:48 Engh: - If you then add it to reason then it then the rest on a concrete assessment in relation to accountability. If a person with paranoid psychosis, in addition suffers from a developmental disorder, it will affect the assessment?

15:49 Malt: - I do not know if we move more of the law here. It is clear that it will affect the assessment and makes it more complicated. But it will have something about how extensive these delusions is here. But I can not decide, they have the experts do.

15:49 Holden: - You suggested two scenarios that are consistent with a break in 2006, why dissocial and narcissistic personality disorder?

15:49 Malt: - It can not I fit in here. But depression can be a part of narssistisk personality.

15:50 Lippestad: - I took note that you explained how much you had been in court. Seven days in total. Several key witnesses have said that Breivik has behaved identically in court that the questioning. With your experience, have you observed psychotic character in court?

15:51 Malt: - No, not really sure. I have not. There have been some episodes where he has been intense and seemed hostile in their eyes. But apart from that I do not make any observations.

15:51 Lippestad:-For us this is the lawyers are likely important, what is definitely not?

15:52 Malt: - It can not be generalized. You have seen him every day in this case. On the days I have observed him, I mean it is less a fifty percent chance that he is psychotic.

15:52 Lippestad: - Does that mean you are close to 50 percent, or do you think it is less likely?

15:53 Malt: - I may well come up with a number. We academics're used to using it. But now I'm on really thin ice, but then I'd say less than 25 percent chance.

15:53 More laughs in the courtroom.

15:54 Breivik says something to his lawyer, Geir Lippestad. Breivik seems irritated.

15:55 Elgesem: - I want to make it even clearer what to look for when we look for delusions. Breivik claimed that he could kill A, B and C traitors. It is false in ordinary social understanding, but he claims that he has received orders to kill from a person who does not exist. Is it a delusion that we can use for schizophrenia? What are we looking for, and what have we seen?

15:55 Malt: - It's clear that you are on some of the same as the prosecutor asked about here. About that he says he has the right to kill, and if it is a delusion. Then we look at the political environment, how others see this and we must consider it in this light.

15:55 Elgesem: - motivation to Breivik, the diseased or a deliberate lie?

15:56 Malt: - Yes, it could be. I have met some of these extremists before this case. And few could believe it, and it need not be a lie. But it can be sickly. What you probably understand it is something that is poorly defined in these our rules it is just that.

15:57 Elgesem: - Later in court comes the witnesses who have observed Breivik, it will be possible that they had seen psychotic features, if he is psychotic?

15:58 Malt: - Yes, if there was a schizophrenic it would have been likely. Over the period in question, it is quite possible to control it. A three-week observation is not sufficient to rule out a psychosis.

15:58 Arntzen ask Malt repeat the difference between paranoid psychosis and paranoid schizophrenia.

15:59 Malt: - If you have a schizophrenia will appear sicker, but if you only have a little delusional it may just be a few things. A paranoid schizophrenic may be easier to detect than a paranoid psychosis. It depends entirely on how he confronted.

16:00 Larsen: - If we take the second report, which of course you have read, you will find something there that describes the signs of paranoid psychosis?

16:00 Malt: - No, as I have seen it I can not find it. I think that I find both Tourette's and Asperger's. But I can not find anything they have written there. I also see that it is possible to do what the other experts have done.

16:01 Larsen: - The others who have described signs of psychosis, where are the elements we are left with when it comes to paranoid psychosis?

16:01 Malt: - No, like I see it there are two things. One is this with delusions, the other is that he belongs to a network (Knights Templar).

16:01 Larsen: - And I can understand it like the grandeur performances may have something with narcissistic traits to do?

16:02 Malt: - When you have a kid who sits at home and think more and more that he is superman and not receive any correction from someone, then it will evolve. If you become depressed and goes into itself, it's easier that this builds on itself.

16:03 Larsen: - To boast a network, it can fit into the narcissistic personality disorder?

16:03 Malt: - Yes it can, but it can also fit into a mixture of these two.

16:05 Larsen: - But how strategic can a person with paranoid shcizofreni that is untreated appear?

16:05 Malt: - They can, if they are fool enough, pretty much clear.

16:05 Malt: - Just look at that we have a Nobel laureate in economics who has this.

16:05 Larsen: - If we go to the prison regime Breivik has been subject, what do you think of someone who is paranoid schizophrenia in such a system?

16:07 Malt: - Had it been a paranoid schizophrenic islolert it would be a chance that he would become ill and that the psychosis broke through. Since he has been detained since 22 July, it would be unlikely that it would break through. But I can not exclude the possibility that someone can hide this for ten eleven months.

16:07 Larsen: - Excludes that there is a paranoid schizophrenic?

16:07 Malt: - I can not rule it with paranoid schizophrenia, because I had to have talked to him.

16:09 Engh: - If there is a paranoid psychosis, it applies the network and his role in it. He has at least two years spent alone and planned, and he has committed this. He has acted as if he were a knight in this network. How can you say that there are profound for him when he's after this?

16:10 Malt: - It is clear that DRT is again a matter of understanding the Anticipating the planning. If you put everything else aside and just work on one thing, then there is pervasive. It is a fluid transition.

16:10 Engh: - He is on the basis of the Knights Templar and his role in it, how much it fills him?

16:10 Malt: - When it fills him and all his consciousness gradually. But a different mechanism here is that he is predisposed to this. Here comes the Aspergeren.

16:11 Huseby: - ??We think it is better to wait to discuss the disagreement until we have submitted the declaration. Therefore we do not comment on this.

16:12 Eielsen: - To what extent can the defendant's behavior is explained in paranoid delusions?

16:12 Malt: - I do not think so. if you are planning a terrorist attack as he has done. Then all the senses to be on guard. If you are "skilled" you will think of all possibilities. When you think of such things. I do not see it in a delusion. I will look at it as being HyperV.

16:12 Eielsen: - He describes the action as a martyrdom, to what extent is this consistent with Asperger?

16:13 Malt: - It is a very good question. The rate of suicide. But now I'm really on thin ice. Here comes the it is that one must have something else.

16:13 Eielsen: - But given what you say about politicization, it is possible that it reaches a kind of climax, and commit a kind of suicide?

16:14 Malt: - I do not think he is indifferent, but this is pure speculation. It's more that Hanh is an experience that he has nothing to lose by sitting in jail.

16:14 Heather: - You were in on how a daignose set, you can say something about the working methods of the four experts, and the differences?

16:16 Malt: - Yes, I can so far. Both have used the talks, both have used questionnaires and semi-structured forms. It is much the same, but the difference is that one expert group has been døgnobservajson. You would also like to use the other types of forms that are difficult for observanden to "read".

16:17 Malt: - The ideal would be if the defendant had had a partner, that the experts could talk with. Who lived with him for long periods.

16:17 Heather: - So we know that Huseby and Sørheim spoke with the defendant jointly, while the two others had them separately. Can you say something about the pros and cons of this?

16:18 Malt: - The benefits of doing it together is that one can observe different things separately at the same time. It is an advantage. The breaks can then discuss among themselves. It is an advantage. The weakness of this method is that one can be too coordinated and agree that "this is it. Operates Mon apart is the ability for less.

16:18 Malt: - It does not seem that they have done exactly the same thing all the time. But it seems that the more that there is a division of labor between them here.

16:20 Fynbos: - When people with Asperger's are aware of it, they start as consciously or unconsciously to train on it, so they not detected?

16:21 Malt: - Most people will try to compensate for this. To train up to it and do the best they can. Some seek out the health care system for assistance so that they can handle it.

16:21 Malt emphasize again that 99.99 percent of people with Asperger's are not criminals or have thoughts about this.

16:21 Fynbos: - This persistence, several people who have questioned the defendant has been built on it, that he was so endurance that those questioned were more tired than the defendant. Can you say anything about it?

16:22 Malt: - When are you more of it with that one can be very persistent. It has been very little research on this in adults, but more research is done on this in recent times. Before, it was seen only in children.

16:23 Breivik trying to hold back the smile.

16:23 Arntzen: - The first experts believe that Breivik developed paranoid schizophrenia possibly in 2002 or 2006. So we know that it is untreated, and that much has happened. How can one expect the development of an illness that is untreated over such a long time?

16:24 Malt: - When we have to look really older studies. Before you had treatment, back to the 1940s. For some this was managed this well, while the third was just bad and worse. This is from the Swiss and German studies.

16:24 Arntzen: - There is no guarantee that it gets worse and worse?

16:24 Malt: - No, it is not given. Some may recover.

16:25 Arntzen: - Are there any criteria that directly or indirectly Breivik right action?

16:25 Malt: - Yes, it's what. It is possible that these notions of the right to kill may be an expression of a delusion.

16:25 Breivik talking Lippestad.

16:26 Malt: - Yes, that's just right. Then again this political extremism in. A fierce desire to act. Since I believe that he is suffering from something else and not just political extremism. For ordinary people it would not be enough, but it probably is. It need not be the case. But I have no experience with mass murderers of this type.

16:26 Arntzen: - The relationship between credibility and delusions. The fact that you get irritated when pressed, how do people react to lying?

16:27 Malt: - Those who lie tend to find plausible explanations and say it another way. Those who are angry are those with Asperger's and those who have a psychosis in which they feel pushed into a corner and begin to defend themselves.

16:27 Arntzen: - This personality disorder, and possibly Asperger's and Tourette's, you can say something about the heritability of this?

16:28 Malt: - When it comes to Asperger lies at 90 percent. A disorder that you inherit. In the case of Tourette's, it is also a neurological disease, but an exact percentage that I can not say now, but I think it was 20 percent.

16:28 Malt continue with that when it comes to personality disorders that can not he say so much about this, as others have more knowledge about it.

16:29 Arntzen: - People with any of these conditions, they will be more likely to get paranoid psychosis?

16:29 Malt: - I have tried to look at, but there is some risk that they may develop it. You become more uncertain and more suspicious. In a Swedish study of people with Asperger's, there were four per cent had developed a paranoid psychosis.

16:30 Lippestad: - You mention politics in terrorism, this is something you have researched in other contexts?

16:31 Malt: - I have not researched it. But my mentor, who is dead now, was a Norwegian Jew and put in concentration camps during the war. Then I learned a lot from him about it and National Socialism. How to Rated people who were injured during the war. I have also been involved in that way. I have followed a German association that has worked with National Socialism and understand it. So just the portion of right-wing activism, I know well.

16:31 Breivik will make comments.

16:31 Malt want to hear Breivik comments.

16:32 Breivik: - I want to congratulate Malt with a well-executed character assassination. At first I thought it was offensive, but eventually it was just ridiculous.

16:32 Breivik: - You claim that I have said I am the commander of a large network, but it is not true.

16:32 Breivik: - It is a fact that this was the largest operation since the second world war.

16:33 Breivik denies that he ever said that he wants to become regent in Norway.

16:33 Breivik: - The definition of narcissism is selfishness, I am altruistic, which is the opposite.

16:34 Breivik: - I have sacrificed myself for others. Altruism and narcissism fit pretty bad together.

16:34 Breivik: - I have never had deviant behavior as a child.

16:34 Breivik: - I have no memories of when I was four years old.

16:34 Breivik believe that he did not remember some experiences from their parents' divorce.

16:34 Breivik: - It was an assessment of my mother, she had problems after a divorce.

16:35 Breivik: - It is common in Norway, it is quite dramatic.

16:35 Breivik: - Focus on figures must be viewed in context, but I'm probably more concerned about it than most.

16:35 Breivik: - 70 percent were written by others, 30 percent were written by me.

16:36 Breivik: - I've never been lonely, maybe when I was alone with the media ban, but never in life.

16:36 Breivik: - Killing tanks before I was twenty years, I had considered a politically motivated attack, but it gives the wrong impression.

16:37 Breivik: - Introduction lecture was prepared for very long, so it gives a bad impression if you wear it as a general description.

16:37 Breivik: - It has been confirmed that I have shown emotionality. Empathy failure does not match what has been proved in the case.

16:38 Breivik denies that he ever feminine.

16:38 Breivik: - Falling out of school compared with a loss of function, but to start a company and compare it to malfunction would offend quite a few entrepreneurs in Norway.

16:39 Breivik: - That the grunting of Utøya is an outrageous assertion. It has never happened. That with tics are also unfounded.

16:39 Breivik: - I have reasoned criticism of the first expert report through 38 pages. The second I have not criticized.

16:39 Breivik - I was not offended by the second report, even though I disagreed.

16:40 Breivik pulls Castro and Che Guevara as an example when they killed political opponents in Cuba.

16:41 Breivik says he does not hate women but love them. The feminism he hates.

16:41 Breivik: - Claim that I have never been in a long term relationship, I was in two long term relationships before 2002. After that, I have not had time because I was working 12-14 hours, but I have been dating for the period, and I've never had trouble getting in contact with women.

16:41 Breivik: - From 2006, I decided to perform an action, and then it was reckless to have a family to Stockholm bomber did.

16:42 Breivik: - When it comes to allegations that I was afraid that my family would be tortured, it's wrong. I was afraid they would be lynched by the population.

16:42 Breivik: - Narcissism, as it was described there can be half the Oslo West Port in the diagnosis, it is a pretty silly way to express themselves.

16:42 Breivik: - When it comes to Asperger's. So I have been chairman and CEO with seven employees, but quite a great success indeed. It is against this.

16:43 Breivik: - Malt forget to relate that the first expert comes with over 200 lies, many of them I have documented in 38 pages.

16:43 Breivik: - The first expert has come up with more than 200 lies in its report. Malt is called in aid of lawyers who have agendas that I shall appear as crazy as possible but still be found sane.

16:43 Breivik: - This case is about political ekstrimisme, not psychiatry.

16:44 Arntzen: - In the case that you have committed a character murder, so I think Breivik is alone in viewing it. We thank you for coming here.

16:45 Holden: - The police are working with an opportunity to get into Alpha Kallon on the video link on Tuesday at 14

16:45 Lippestad: - We agree that the witness should be continued.

16:46 Kallon was Breivik contact during the visit to Liberia when he was there in 2002.

16:46 Larsen: - Now, there have been suggestions that it is possible that the decision not to use child psychiatrist as a witness is requested reversed.

16:48 The court is adjourned.