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Anders Behring Breivik Court Transcript 2012-06-06 Live Report


Wednesday June 6, 2012

8:56 The first witness today is the Chief Scientist in Aftenposten, Hilde, who will testify about free speech censorship.

9:03 Hagen does not have to testify today.

9:06 Hilde Scientist has taken the witness stand. She is the editor of Aftenposten.

9:07 Lippestad asks her to tell a little about freedom of speech in Norwegian media today.

9:08 Scientist: - I personally feel a strong obligation to protect freedom of expression. The best way to develop democracy is expressed in our columns. We will have an open attitude when we edit our debate pages.

9:08 Scientist: - But it's not as if anyone who wants to be interviewed and have his speech at the paper gets it.

9:09 Lippestad: - Can you tell us about the reviews you do when you are editing a post and considering that for pressure?

9:10 Scientist: - When it comes to the print edition, it is seldom we have to consider whether it is in Norwegian law or threats, for example. Those who submit adapt and have a sense of what it takes to get in print. It is almost never such reasons on paper. 90 percent of all we get, we must refuse. We receive thousands every year.

9:11 Scientist: - VI priority posts we think are representative of groups or people. WE have the basic attitude that we want to contribute to a public and informed debate. We believe this builds democracy.

9:11 Lippestad: - Here in the hall, there have been expressed that many feel they do not get to speak. What arguments do they use?

9:13 Scientist: - We get inquiries from people who are disappointed and find it difficult to understand. But there is a small group that stands out there. I guess some people on the extreme right wing, individuals who feel persecuted by the NAV, for example, people who are completely outside of an academic environment ... the type of people often pass on their impression that they do not get it anyway.

9:13 Lippestad: - Can you say something about those on the extreme right wing, how many they are?

9:14 Scientist: - There is no large group that comes with this criticism. Of the witnesses who were here yesterday, it's more of those that have been printed in our columns. Among other Anfindsen who was here yesterday.

9:15 Haugsgjerd sites Anfindsen post: - I do not think the problem is that immigration cannot be criticized, but they are not taken seriously.

9:16 Haugsgjerd ahead hints that they might have been more open.

9:18 Scientist: - Since I also say a little about your debate. There is unlimited space. There we had a different type of challenge. It is that access has been so great. Previously, we had a page where we asked questions and everyone could submit what they wanted. It was similar to other media's opinion, difficult to edit. I am responsible, and if something is so offensive that they are illegal, then I can be held liable.

9:19 Scientist: - It was difficult for us to moderate. Those who came with was too daunting task so we did not know how to handle it. The 22 happened in July we decided to close this debate, because we did not want it to be a forum for rumors and conspiracies. We have also not open again, because it is too difficult to exercise. The debate will now be related to the topics we write about.

9:19 Lippestad: - There is a lot because of that editorial responsibility is so difficult, I understand ...

9:20 Scientist: - Or ethically undesirable statements which are violations of the press be careful poster.

9:20 Lippestad: - Was it a big problem that there was a lot of junk in these forums?

9:21 Scientist: - It was not a big problem. There was a lot of sense and quite problematic debates. We have nothing against immigration-critical debate. A series was about what happened in Greenland in Oslo, where some men in Muslim communities and sought out women who dressed western. The debate we took the initiative.

9:22 Scientist: - One must also respect the respect for the individual. One can not call anyone for animals.

9:23 New Scientist asked if Aftenposten has investigated whether Breivik has written something on their web forums?

9:24 Scientist: - I have been informed that he claims to have sent us submissions to the print edition as he tried to get in print. We have tried to find, without success. But it may well be, for we shall have to between 40,000 and 50,000 posts every time. When it comes to online debate, we have found a couple of nicknames that might stem from him. And a person named Anders Behring was a debater, but I can not say for sure if it was him.

9:24 Lawyer Hallgren: - What type of post was that?

9:24 Scientist reads one post she thinks may be from Breivik written 11 July 2008.

9:25 New Scientist quotes another post where the post calls Aftenposten journalists for Communists.

9:25 Lawyer Hallgren:-Breivik could comment on whether this is his post.

9:27 Scientist: - I think he has made me a few questions when we have had chat. It is from Anders Behring. 7/9 2009: "What is the rationale for the newspaper Aftenposten after 1972 began to support kulturmarxister. (...) Was it because of pressure from the labor movement?

9:27 Lawyer Hallgren: - This second post, this is something that was moderated?

9:27 Scientist: - No, it is true that we do not moderate in advance. We have moderators who follow the debate. This was the post that was left on.

9:28 Breivik will make a comment.

9:31 Breivik: - I want to comment on the posts. I have made most extraordinary one. But the last is true enough. And it was two things I hoped she would comment that was not recorded. But there has been a censorship. The fact that Norway is the country in the world who do not have a newspaper that opposes the multicultural experiment. Perhaps the most important issue in our country is whether it is undemocratic that Norway is in the process of being transformed without the Norwegians are asked in a referendum. These are legitimate concerns. If you come by such utterances one is branded as right-wing. That's the problem in Norway and throughout Europe. It is the biggest problem and Aftenposten has a great responsibility.

9:32 Scientist: - I will not repeat what I have said before, but give a brief comment: Progress Party is the party that received the most media coverage.

9:32 Scientist have finished their testimony and leave the witness box.

9:32 Next witness is Jan Simonsen, a former Member of Parliament for the Progress Party.

9:33 Simonsen said that he is retired and receives parliamentary pension.

9:34 Tord Jordet will question Jan Simonsen.

9:34 Simonsen would like to say something about how he stands in relation to Breivik.

9:35 Simonsen: - It is Breivik, who is the traitor to the Norwegian people and democracy. I have to say what I think about that Breivik is pathetic in his attitude and what he has done.

9:36 Simonsen says of her experience as a politician.

9:38 Simonsen: - I have run four different sites. One of the Uighurs who are mainly a Muslim group in China. Website of the Norwegian-Israeli Chamber of Commerce and my own page with profile where I write about human rights. I write about human rights in Muslim countries and support for Israel. To prevent people being slaughtered in terrorist acts such Breivik behind.

9:39 Simonsen: - I have had open comments section on this website, so I get many comments from people on the extreme right and people who have sympathy with Breivik. Where can I go in and say that what he writes is preposterous.

9:39 Simonsen: - What I believe I can say something about two things: There are different attitudes towards the media has had to FRP and some effort on the right side the previous year, and the other is about Breivik have minded in Norway and abroad.

9:40 Jordet  question about that Breivik said the censored and if this is something Simonsen previously Frper recognize themselves in.

9:42 Simonsen: - This I recognize. There have been several articles close below the options which include VG drove outright campaigns against the Progress Party's policies. This will affect the election results. I have never seen any such campaigns against other political parties, I shall be completely objective.

9:43 Simonsen: - In 1995, Dagbladet, a similar campaign against Øystein Hedstrom because he participated in a panel discussion, just before the election. Carl I Hagen still managed to turn this into a debate about immigration criticism. But Dagbladet ran a debate to undermine the election results for the Progress Party. The same has thus VG done.

9:43 Jordet : - Have you discussed this with other party colleagues?

9:44 Simonsen: - As it was we were at the party agreed that this was awful. I think other parties rejoiced awful.

9:44 Jordet : - Have you experienced other things?

9:46 Simonsen: - On one of the demos in support of Israel in 2009. What happened then was that a bunch of friends outside the Israeli Parliament. Seniors from the West Coast with Israeli flags. And they were surrounded by a mob from the Middle East who threw stones. I was delivered from an older retired Christian woman a stone the size of a hand that she had received in the thigh. These older people hid away David-stars behind the clothes and was taken away by police. The mob later went around and broken windows.

9:47 Simonsen: - If I had put up with some friends on Karl Johan with an Israeli flag, it would have been destroyed. I had never dared to go to Greenland with a Jewish flag on the jacket. A friend of mine with a cap that had dinner in Greenland said he was threatened by a gang outside and that they wanted him to remove his cap. He did not. He is a brave man.

9:48 Simonsen: - The same thing happened to my friend Vidar Kleppe. The police counter-demonstrators released until close to him so that he was hit by things. When I stood on a 1 May-able in 1990 I had a saliva klyse beard. We can not feel safe if we have a political stand.

9:48 Jordet : - On your blog you do not have many comments. Can you say something about what kind of comments it is?

9:49 Simonsen: - I have also included some examples of just that, showing whether someone supports Breivik. I would also say that many who write on the blog that many Muslims answer these extreme right and thank you for it. Many others are thrown out of other bloggers.

9:50 Simonsen: - Many say that even in the Progress Party and the Democrats have failed the fight against immigration.

9:51 Simonsen: - The website criticizes Mon marriage, that immigrants who come to Norway must adapt to (...), much of which is the core of Breivik's ideology.

9:52 Simonsen: - Breivik believes that Norway is being invaded by Muslims. This is a commitment to a controlled process, which he believes is supported by the AP since the fifties. And, that I understand him.

9:53 Simonsen: - I do not think he supports much of this in either FRP or Democrats, but in the blog world, he has support. Although a debate on professional boxing can end up in a debate about Israel and Breivik.

9:54 Simonsen: - Not later than today, someone called a terrorist Stoltenberg.

9:55 Simonsen: - One of the moderates on the blog says that there are secular Muslims, it's not raining up. This he writes here's a common belief far out on the right side.

9:56 Simonsen: - I have friends who are Muslims in Norway and abroad. These bloggers believe that there are moderate Muslims, and that they matter to eradicate us.

9:56 Simonsen: - When it comes to traitors. Then there's a post called Norwegian People's Aid is the coup of the socialists.

9:57 Jordet : - Thank you, we have gained a good impression from your online debates on the blog. Have you got any idea of ??how FRP makes it tvdebattene?

9:57 Simonsen: - FRP release to the debate. TV 2 has been a blessing for Progress. Had it not been for Carl I. Hagen and TV 2, I'm not sure if the Progress Party had existed as it is today.

9:58 Simonsen: - When it comes to the Democrats so you do not, we never get on TV. There was an exception at the last general election in which the small parties were permitted to.

9:59 Simonsen: - When it comes to such valgomater that an increasing number of uses before they vote, so, for example, Democrats and other small parties have been omitted.

10:00 Jordet : - When I have more questions. Do you have something you want to add?

10:00 Simonsen: - I could say something about support for Breivik abroad. There are of course far worse. But it can be offensive and very difficult to read up.

10:00 Simonsen finished his testimony.

10:01 The court is a 20 minute break.

10:22 Next witness is Raymond Johansen, party secretary of Labor. Johansen will testify about Labor's policy.

10:25 Raymond Johansen offshoot insurance law.

10:26 Lippestad: - the AP has undoubtedly been one of the goals of the actions that have taken place. You have a personal relationship with 22/7?

10:28 Johansen: - It started primarily because I had come back from vacation. I spoke with my advisor by telephone from home. While I talked to him he stood and looked at Einar Gerhardsen place. He screamed that the Government buildings were bombed. He ran out and I got my secretary who had come down on Youngstorget. They experienced a very difficult situation. Fortunately no one was injured here. We started working to find alternative offices, and borrowed an apartment.

10:29 Johansen: - After a while I got the phone, from my counselor, if there is shooting at Utøya. There we learned from several sources. Eventually I got hold of Eskil Pedersen on telephone, he was on the run. I started then to call the police and found very quickly that we would go out to Sundvollen. We came to Sollihøgda, where it was stopping. Ambulances and helicopters began to arrive. Eventually we were able to move on and got a ride with an ambulance to Sundvollen.

10:30 Johansen: - When I came up with my counselor. The sight that met me ... there were many children. It was the first thing that struck me. There was despair and screaming ... a chaotic situation. How it felt. Many wept and shouted the name of friends and siblings.

10:31 Johansen: - As parents began to emerge that had lost contact with their children and hoped they would find them. They experienced there are things you will never forget.

10:31 Johansen: - I was there a few hours and handled national and international press.

10:32 Johansen: - Throughout the evening was set up lists of who was there. It was set up fly from northern Norway .... Since then, it was about the terrorist actions and the consequences of Labour Youth and Labour.

10:33 Lippestad: - With the backdrop ... Part of the motivation that has Breivik, is Labor's immigration and integration policies. Can you say anything about it?

10:33 Johansen: - I will be very clear to start by saying that this case is not about politics APs, but the atrocity - a man who has killed 77 people.

10:34 Lippestad: - Totally agree with that, but this is all about sanity or mental incapacity Breivik. Then we need to ask questions about it?

10:35 Johansen: - immigration policy is set by the Norwegian Storting. You come to Norway through five doors. Since 1977 there has been an immigration stop. One door is through the asylum system, which one is committed to the Human Rights Convention. One must determine if the refugees have reason to it and on such a basis, one can get into.

10:36 Johansen: - The second door is the family reunion. That way you can get family to Norway. Both if it is a Norwegian man or woman who has found a abroad, it is called family unification.

10:36 Johansen: - The third is an expert door. A quota of 5,000 a year. An employer may apply to, for example, bring in an engineer.

10:37 Johansen: - The fourth door is overføringsflykning or kvoteflykning. This means that one can obtain a refugee already in a UN camp. It is part of our commitment to the UN.

10:38 Johansen: - The fifth is through immigration. This means that one can come to Norway through the EEA. Many have come from Eastern Europe to Norway, especially after the country joined the EU.

10:38 Johansen: - We believe that it is very good for Norway that we are part of the EEA. It is a good deal, and we get again to be able to export goods is a good labor.

10:39 Lippestad: - Is it possible to say something about Muslim countries, and the percentage coming into the country?

10:40 Johansen: - When it comes to Europe, for example, Kosovo is a Muslim country, then that is not part of the EEA, but the biggest is from Catholic countries. But some Muslim countries are in war and conflict and on this basis it is possible to apply for asylum. Also on the family, there are some who come from Muslim countries.

10:40 Lippestad: - A question that has been up, the challenges and opportunities related to integration. Have some views on Labor opportunities and the challenges of integration?

10:41 Johansen: - Firstly, I would say that diversity is fundamentally positive. It enriches us economically and culturally. Countries that are good at this are the APs discretion is important for the global balance. When people come from different backgrounds and limited knowledge of Norwegian, it is challenging.

10:42 Johansen: - I am even from Groruddalen. There, people from 158 nations, and it can be challenging. But it is absolutely necessary to be a country that stands out as a consideration for integration.

10:43 Lippestad: - Another question is the ability to come up with their utterances. I am talking about the minority statements. If you have any views on the AP thinks it is important?

10:44 Johansen: - I think it is very important. Freedom of speech is perhaps the most important rights we have. The fact that different viewpoints are presented is important for our democracy and debate. The AP has been committed is to be good at meeting statements with facts. Now it is clear that freedom of speech is one of the most important. But it's also obligations attached to it. Incitement to terrorism such is not allowed.

10:45 Lippestad: - It Breivik has argued, perhaps before he decided to become a murderer and terrorist, is that it has not been possible to make themselves heard. Is it possible to say whether Labor's view of this criticism with Islam?

10:46 Johansen: - If I allowed to say that it is important for Labor to free speech. The fact that religions are the face is something you must be able to accept. If there is something I feel is discussed in the Norwegian society, it is Islam.

10:46 Lippestad: - The impact of this terrorist attack ... What I wonder is how this has affected the Labour Party and Labour Youth?

10:48 Johansen: - These terrorist attacks have hit us very hard. AUF has been through this with a strength. But we have lost some of our greatest talents. There are survivors who have lost their loved ones. The work done in the party, people who stood around the clock, and there is a deep trauma that has affected us. For individuals, this has hit very strongly, but it has been a force of solidarity and cohesion and the ability to take care of each other.

10:48 Lippestad: - When I have some more questions. Do you have anything to attribute?

10:49 Johansen: - One additional point. Migration in the world today are immense. Only the first generation that has moved on as equivalent to the population in Brazil. And Norway is part of the world. The biggest movement we have now is in China. They move from the countryside to the city. WE have a tremendous economic growth, and it is because people move on.

10:50 Lawyer Elgesem: - You said that from 22/7 has your organization been affected by terrorist acts. Can you elaborate on this?

10:52 Johansen: - It is very important to know that the parents of many of those who were on Utøya has a close historical relationship with the island. They thought they had sent their children to the world's safest place. Following were the parents and the device around the middle of a personal and emotionally difficult situation as they had to do the practical. They had to find lists of who was at Utøya. What these did afterwards has been the most important link. They had to hold the funeral speeches and writing obituaries of those who died. At the same time provide support to the AUF and the members who in my opinion, has made a historic effort looked at what they've been through. I have not been to a meeting of the AUF yet where this has not been an issue.

10:52 Lawyer Elgesem: - What steps must be done to meet such a crisis?

10:53 Johansen: - It was one of the first things we did was to establish close contacts with the support services so that people had access to psychosocial services, someone to talk to. But from a political party that used to lead the campaign to have to carry out emergency relief, has affected us and created a strong internal cohesion.

10:54 Lawyer Elgesem: - Can you say something about the extent of the number affected?

10:54 Johansen: - There is the most at the local county level. There are so many who are severely affected. There may be one that has received an sms from someone who is dead. There are many thousands who are affected by this, both within and outside the Labor Party. There are many people who are affected and we are working hard to get over it.

10:55 Lawyer Elgesem: - How would you describe the effort in your own organization, the mother party?

10:56 Johansen: - There is a strong admiration for the people who are part of a party and an organization that has left a lot of effort in the party suddenly became an important contact for survivors who were part of the bereaved. So, I have great admiration for the work that has been made and what still closed after the terrorist attacks hit.

10:56 Lawyer Elgesem: - And the political commitment, you will describe it after 22/7?

10:57 Johansen: - The political involvement, from being a crisis organization campaigning organization. We have over 10,000 more members. There are many activities and who will participate and discuss.

10:57 Lawyer Elgesem: - Is it your impression that the 22/7 has meant that the voices that support Breivik has been muted, or is it becoming more?

10:58 Johansen: - Now it's not that I frequent the site every day, but when I'm there, it is my impression that the discussions will continue and many of the attitudes of the offender advocates, many parts. Therefore, I encouraged people to participate in our discussions with factual content. My understanding is that when it comes to light then it will crack.

10:59 Lawyer Larsen: - Applies to the increase in membership in both the Labour Party and Labour Youth?

10:59 Johansen: - Yes, it applies to both. All political parties have been given a boost, but the mother party, we got 7000 more members. It is more pronounced than usual, for all parties, but more for us.

10:59 Breivik want to comment on the testimony of Raymond Johansen.

11:00 Breivik: - It was raised some points now from the party secretary. There are few of the points I think are most important. There a lot of Labor has never answered.

11:00 The judge interrupts Breivik before he is allowed to continue.

11:02 Breivik: - What will Labor do to make the Norwegian ethnic group gradually deconstructed until we no longer exists. We need special protection, but with this deconstruction is not. WE are about to become a minority in Oslo and in our own country. This is not something Labor has explained in his program. What will happen to our culture and traditions, Christianity, etc. The way I interpret it is Labor after World War II wanted to deconstruct Christianity and the Norwegian state. As a result, the resistance movement declared war.

11:03 The judges interrupt Breivik and says that he has mentioned before.

11:03 Breivik keep talking and saying that Labor has not done anything and do not see the consequences.

11:04 Breivik: - Is there a big plan, there is a plan at all, or no plan? Thank you.

11:04 Prosecutors have questions Breivik.

11:05 Breivik start talking. He said that prosecutors are trying to ridicule him and that they should talk about now has nothing to do with it.

11:06 Prosecutors Holden: - This is not trying to ridicule you, you will see the questions that are relevant to the case. One reason is that the expert Tørrisen wanted to look at this.

11:07 Breivik: - I do not want to contribute to ridicule myself, so I do not want to answer some questions about the game World of Warcraft.

11:07 Prosecutors Holden: - Then there will be questions about Breivik game time.

11:07 Judge Arntzen ask when investigating the material is ready.

11:08 Holden said they hope to make that clear before long.

11:08 Arntzen: - After lunch?

11:08 Holden laughs a little uncertain and that they will try to do the best they can.

11:09 The court pauses to clock 12.15.

12:12 In five minutes the court after the break.

12:14 Prosecutors and police investigators have been working to finish a presentation on Breivik's activities in the game World of Warcraft.

12:15 Prosecutors Holden wanted to show the police have found in the investigation of gambling activities to Breivik, since the accused before lunch refused to answer questions about this.

12:15 Breivik believed that the only prosecution wanted to achieve with this is to ridicule him. Breivik told the court that he therefore refused to answer questions to illustrate this.

12:16 Later, one of Breivik's comrades from the game World of Warcraft testify in court, taken by prosecutors.

12:20 The court is set.

12:22 Breivik smiles and looks down at the table when the prosecutor Holden says he will ask Breivik questions after the presentation.

12:22 The policeman who sits in the witness box has been working on the investigation surrounding Breivik's gaming activities.

12:23 The officer explains that Anders Breivik called themselves the Nordic WoW.

12:25 Police investigator: - Once in 2009 games change character name from Anders Breivik nordic to Conservatism.

12:26 Police investigator: - This was found in Breivik's computer. He used it as a diary in which he quoted including password. From the document called Agenda New he writes also about WoW.

12:26 Police detective shows an excerpt in which Breivik has written about WoW. (World of Warcraft).

12:28 Holden reiterated that Breivik started WoW in 2006 and that he was assigned to a server named Nordrassil.

12:29 Police investigator continues to read a new excerpt from the diary which Breivik writes about how he played with his team, or "unit".

12:29 Among other things, Breivik changed a "guild", which is an optional package in the game.

12:30 That way he would get better. The statement says that he did not want to turn his back on his game friends, but that he would be better.

12:31 Further, he had to take a break of eight months.

12:31 Holden says that this document was found in Breivik's computer.

12:31 Holden: - But we have also found something Breivik wrote on the Web ...

12:33 Police investigator: - Yes. It's so that the forum of the game can exchange information and talk. In one of the threads writes "Anders nordic" that he will leave WoW to instead play Age of Conan.

12:34 Police investigator: - What we find is that he sometimes had breaks. We see this in his payments, where you pay to play. In the period from 29/5 2008 to the 10/12 2008, Breivik not pay anything into to play.

12:35 Police investigator: - The 11/12 2008 open his account, he left. We are looking further we find that he is a member of a new guild in 2010.

12:36 Police investigator continues to quote. Here it says Breivik had to stop playing for a while. He writes that he knows that he will be super-fixed and play a lot.

12:37 Police investigator: - Furthermore, we find an email Breivik submit to Blizzard. It indicates that he is from January 2010 to November 2010 has had a break. In November, he wants to resume his playing. Blizzard are those with the operation of World of Warcraft.

12:38 Police investigator: - It says in the email that his account was hacked and that he lost "equipment" their.

12:39 Police investigator: - The next point on our timeline is November 2010 when he opened his account after not having paid for a while. Here we can for a few months to be detailed about his playing time. 11/23/10 to 02/23/2011 shows the playing time each day. He has played six hours and 16 minutes on average each day.

12:40 Prosecutors Holden: - That's what we thought to go through in that regard.

12:40 Police investigator: - After the 4 February 2011, we see not that Breivik has registered playing time in World of Warcraft.

12:41 Expert Tørrisen: - These guilds ... Do you have some knowledge about the actual games and how is this going?

12:43 Police investigator: - To a certain extent. What you think of now, the guild. It can be so big it will but is usually not more than 30 people. What you say about 25 is when you go on special missions, the so-called raids. The goal is to go through a more complex task with a boss. This is impossible to do for the individual player. This can also be social. You know that you know the people and may have a common tactic. You can trust each other and better tactics.

12:43 Expert Tørrisen: - All these with the guild icons, you can tell something about it?

12:44 Police investigator: - A guild leader is the chief of those who are members there. As Breivik even write as it involves some work with registration. By adding the dragons you get assigned states. Guild leader's function is to create a distribution formula so that those who need it most and have contributed a lot to receive this item you get. A co-guild master is a vice chairman.

12:44 Expert Tørrisen: - Is it verified whether he actually was the guild leader?

12:44 Police investigator: - No, we do not.

12:45 Expert Tørrisen: - This that communication works in several ways. Can you describe the communication?

12:46 Police investigator: - When making assignments, it is necessary to provide information accurately and quickly to all of them. It is addressed by all guild that is of a certain rank have a system with microphones and headsets that you speak with. They give messages to each other and talk about tasks that are given. One guild then have a group where we talk with via headsets. One can talk even when not in a.

12:46 Expert Tørrisen: - Is it a social thing?

12:47 Police investigator: - It is also possible to write such a chat log. But writing is not as much used because it is more effective to talk.

12:47 Expert Tørrisen: - Is there a description that it can provide a high degree of mastery, that it becomes easier and easier after a while?

12:48 Police investigator: - That it becomes easier and easier, I will not say. It's not like you come to the end, there is always something to do. You get better equipment and getting more demanding assignments. When it comes to sense of achievement, it is enough so that it largely allows it. But it is my personal opinion. This is a social game. If you do something that is very well see a lot of it and you get feedback and you can have a respected position in the game.

12:49 Expert Tørrisen: - These guilds have observanden ranked, this is worldwide?

12:50 Police investigator: - You have several constraints on this. There are servers. A server is a gaming world, there are also copies in other worlds. There are many who play this and 10 million users can not be on a server simultaneously. There was also a case where there was a guild that was in fourth place in the world rankings, but this has not been verified by us. One must remember that there is a great achievement in such rankings. That's why he mentions it when he talks about it.

12:51 Expert Tørrisen: - How much of the time spent on the administrative side, if one is guild leader?

12:51 Police investigator: - I do not know anything about. But if you want to be a member of a raid you have to prepare, you can not show up right then. One must also have magic potions, for example, before you start.

12:51 Expert Tørrisen: - So there is a definite difference between being the guild leader and player?

12:52 Expert Aspaas: - You mentioned a figure, ten million?

12:52 Police investigator: - 10 million, according to publisher Blizzard at one point paying players.

12:52 Expert Aspaas: - So it was with the social ...

12:53 Police investigator: - There is a person after me who know more about this than me. We are after all mainly interested in games, but there may be other things as well.

12:53 The police investigator is questioned whether the material referred to is published.

12:53 Police investigator: - The police have no indication of it. But this is not my specialty.

12:55 The investigator will be asked about requiring a form of social interaction.

12:57 Police investigator: - The communication often takes place outside of WoW. But I know, many other types of communication software that runs in the background, such as Skype.

12:58 The police investigator says that there are studies around Breivik's Skype account, but can not say anything more precise about this now.

12:59 Lawyer Larsen - Is it normal to play the night Norwegian time?

12:59 Police investigator: - Yes, what is common and unusual is difficult for me to consider. It must almost ask Breivik about.

12:59 Lawyer Larsen: - Do you know if you play with, where they are in the world?

12:59 Police investigator: - Usually it is the Europeans who logs on U.S. servers and vice versa and so on.

13:00 Arntzen: - Can you tell us about the preparations for the game, and what type of preparation it is for a raid?

13:01 Police investigator: - When you find yourself on raids like in a cave or a castle where you do not have access to those funds that have not been obtained in advance. Different players have different needs, and that needs to be filled must ensure that the different have what they need. This must be clear in advance.

13:02 Police investigator: - One must therefore ensure that you have to have enough for the whole raid. It requires preparation. Some people take responsibility for one or other of the other things.

13:02 Breivik want to make a comment.

13:03 Breivik: - There is something called e-sports as this game is a branch of. This should be an Olympic sport and it is hoped that this will be included on a par with chess. In the case against David Toska for NOKAS robbery, his chess set forth, but it was not relevant to the case. Thank you.

13:04 Breivik smiles as he flicks on the chair.

13:05 Prosecutors Holden: - The first days you told us that the summer of 2006 moved back home to your mother. When did you decide to give you a martyr estate gift, which was playing for a year. You also told us that you started working full time on the compendium in 2007.

13:05 Breivik: - What you say now is not true. I've played more than one year, but it was one year I dedicated to this.

13:05 Prosecutors Holden: - If you've played non-stop for two years, you may not have had so much time to the compendium?

13:06 Breivik: - In interviews with police, I said that I started writing the compendium active since 2007. But I remember that I said that I started writing full time in 2007. But in the period you mention, I wrote no full time.

13:06 Prosecutors Holden: - In the period you have been in three guilds. Wrote the manifesto for the period?

13:07 Breivik: - What I have written there will s'tolkes so I've played, but there was only one year I played full time. There are three or four days I played seven to eleven.

13:07 Prosecutors Holden: - So raid-activity in Nevermore, as you were in 2007. Can you tell us a bit more about it?

13:08 Breivik: - I do not want to say something about the gameplay. It is not relevant.

13:08 Prosecutors Holden: - What I wonder is whether you can describe the level of activity in Nevermore?

13:08 Breivik: - This is not relevant to this case whatsoever.

13:08 Prosecutors Holden: - The next witness may have some opinions about it.

13:09 Breivik: - We can wait and hear what he has to say. So we take it there after.

13:09 Prosecutors Holden: - You are not saying that you have played non-stop for two years?

13:09 Breivik: - I remember I played a lot of one year and after that only as a hobby.

13:09 Prosecutors Holden: - Can you describe the level of activity on the hobby?

13:10 Breivik: - Basically, it was just a hobby. Nothing more. I understand what you are trying to do, I respect it, would have done the same myself.

13:10 Prosecutors Holden - I just want to explore the possibility that you may have written in the compendium at a different time.

13:10 Breivik: - The compendium was written between 2007 and 2011.

13:11 Breivik: - It has nothing to do with it. I do not see the relevance.

13:12 Prosecutors Holden: - In this forum post mentioned, it says that you should start playing hardcore Age of Conan. Did you know?

13:12 Breivik: - I tested it a few weeks, but nothing more than that.

13:12 Prosecutors Holden: - A couple of weeks, approximately, that is.

13:12 Breivik: - Even if you use a terminoligi which is common in an environment, so I do not think there's so much. I do not remember how much.

13:13 The prosecutor asks Holden Breivik about where he was guild master.

13:13 Breivik: - So theoretically there is no such thing as that. Theoretically, one is an officer. I was one of two people who did the most. I know he is coming now and he uses another word for it.

13:13 Prosecutors Holden: - What level of activity in the unit?

13:13 Breivik: - I do not see the relevance.

13:14 Prosecutors Holden: - And it does not help if I find it interesting?

13:14 Breivik: - So it has long been known that you provide now. It has been known that I have had it as a hobby. That you print it up, is just an attempt to ridicule me.

13:14 Prosecutors Holden: - It is not ambition my, I want you to tell us what you spent time on up to 22/7.

13:15 Breivik: - I understand it, but I have nothing further to add.

13:15 Prosecutors Holden: - So we know there is a pause in the game afterwards, to December 2008.

13:15 Breivik: - I do not see the relevance of this topic.

13:15 Prosecutors Holden: - What's New Agenda?

13:15 Breivik: - You can keep asking, but ...

13:16 Prosecutors Holden: - So you will not tell it?

13:16 Breivik: - I do not see the relevance of this subject whatsoever.

13:16 Prosecutors Holden: - The witness read out your words. Would you first become a member of Nevermore?

13:16 Breivik: - It must have been a professional guild that played at the highest level.

13:17 Prosecutors Holden: - Was the level of activity any more than from 7 to 11?

13:17 Breivik: - They played from seven to eleven four five nights a week. There is a peak. Otherwise, it is very casual.

13:18 Prosecutors Holden: - So Nevermore had four raids a week, from 7 to 11? Did you use much time to prepare?

13:18 Breivik: - I do not see the relevance. What is your point?

13:18 Breivik: - You want to determine how much time I spent on the compendium in this period, but I have explained.

13:18 Prosecutors Holden: - It is something that can not be reconciled here, so I have to ask questions.

13:19 Breivik: - You work full time as the prosecutor, and when you get home you probably also have hobbies?

13:19 Breivik: - It is not necessary that you take up this here.

13:19 Arntzen points out that it was Tørrisen expert who wanted to get this clear.

13:19 Breivik: - I think that it is a driving force in this as well with prosecutors.

13:20 Breivik: - I now turns off the microphone, but you can go if you want ...

13:20 Prosecutors Holden: - The prosecutor has the right to ask questions ...

13:21 Lippestad: - Can not you rather just read the police statement then?

13:21 Arntzen prosecutor asks Holden to questions round the post.

13:21 Holden continues to ask about the guild.

13:22 Suddenly, however, Breivik answer on this.

13:22 When asked by Judge Lyng said prosecutor Holden that they have no previous history than what is presented.

13:23 Breivik says he did not play anything until 2006.

13:23 Prosecutors Engh: - The people you played with, how they were, did you get the impression those people?

13:23 Prosecutors Engh: - Did you know them?

13:23 Breivik: - How many questions do you have? It is ordinary people. Many of them have children, you can hear the children in the background. People think the more that they might play a little too much to take care of children.

13:24 Breivik: - You're talking to them about the game.

13:24 Prosecutors Engh: - Would you say that the people you played with, was well known to you?

13:24 Breivik: - You choose the how much you want to unfold. I chose not to talk much about politics. I distinguished between policy and this hobby.

13:24 Prosecutors Engh: - You did not talk about politics. What else did you talk about?

13:24 Prosecutors Engh: - What about you?

13:25 Breivik: - I can talk about a lot of things other than politics. It could be about everyday things.

13:25 Prosecutors Engh: - What did you experience during the time while you were playing?

13:25 Breivik: - I think I told a lot about the compendium. Everyone knew that I was working fulltime as a writer while I was playing.

13:25 Prosecutors Engh: - Your old friends have said how they had no contact with you. Did you know that you played with, replaced your friends?

13:26 Breivik: - I have studied quite a number of terrorist acts. And in the preparatory phase and what is required. Then you have to isolate themselves and those around you, the circuit will be omitted. I took the Sabbath and cut with my old life. If you are a social person, one must compensate for it. Then I used the web. They are attempting to fill the social gaps.

13:26 Prosecutors Engh: - Did you know that you played with, replaced the social gap?

13:27 Breivik: - It was just a hobby. When I talk about it online as there were other politically active.

13:27 Prosecutors Engh: - If any of those had come to court, do you think they had been able to describe you?

13:27 Breivik: - I had other hobbies. Were both in the Freemason logo and gun club.

13:28 Prosecutors Engh: - Do you remember what part of the lecture notes you wrote last?

13:28 Breivik: - It was no part for last. Everything was written simultaneously. I started to crawl in advance, but as soon as it became clear that there were three parts, and the first two parts, the historical and political, justifies the third. In many ways it's a legimitering of book three, which is the military section.

13:29 Prosecutors Engh: - Started to write book 3 in 2007?

13:29 Breivik: - No, I had a lot of information from 2002 that was the basis for the compendium.

13:29 Prosecutors Engh: - In 2002 you began to write a book 3?

13:29 Breivik: - No. .. that is. Some of the information that was in the lecture notes I received from CS meeting in London.

13:30 Prosecutors Engh: - Notes from London, you had to, that is. Why do you think we will ridicule you?

13:30 Breivik: - No, I really just ask you about. I can not answer why. But you've tried to tone up my uniform with respect to the action. The same with the gameplay. If I were you I would have tried the same thing.

13:30 Prosecutors Engh: - So you think we will try to delegitimere you?

13:31 Breivik: - I have followed in enough terror trials around the world. And what is the subject of prosecution is to present the accused in a bad light. As a failed loser. Prosecutors present the state's interests and that is where the subject comes from. But I will not contribute to help you.

13:32 The court will take a 20 minute break at 13.50 before the next witness to be recalled.

13:57 Next witness is one who has previously played World of Warcraft with Breivik over the net.

14:02 The judges have not yet been received. Proceedings should be initiated for twelve minutes ago.

14:03 It seems that the players in court has held a meeting at a time.

14:05 The court is set.

14:05 The final witness comes into play. He explains that he is 26 years old and a student.

14:06 Witness (26): - No, I do not know him personally. But I played WoW with him for a while.

14:06 Prosecutors Holden: - Tell us first about your dealings with WoW?

14:07 Witness (26): - I played Wow from what was released. Often up to 16 hours a day, seven days a week for almost a year. From 2005 to 2008 I played the game.

14:07 Witness (26) - I was the leader of a unit. Or the guild master. It was I, 23 January and on and on until 11 september 2007.

14:08 Prosecutors Holden - I will mention a few guild names for you, I want you to say something about the activity levels of these.

14:09 Witness: - I know that he became guild leader when another began. He sent an application to the unit, there is an application which explains how active you are and what you can contribute.

14:09 Prosecutors Holden: - What do you know about the level of activity?

14:10 Witness: - I know he equipment itself had the same level or perhaps slightly lower than the unit. It says that he has a high activity level, at least five days a week.

14:10 Prosecutors Holden: - How do you get equipment?

14:10 Witness: - It may take a very long time to acquire such equipment. The equipment used anywhere when playing, but in the first place in the raid.

14:11 Witness: - One had to be active six to seven days a week. Most played up to 12-16 hours a day every day. It had to do raids were only 19-24. So you had to play along with it.

14:11 Prosecutors Holden: - was there all the members?

14:12 Witness: - There were several who had jobs and managed to combine it. Breivik played almost as much as me and I played 16 hours a day.

14:12 Prosecutors Holden: - Do you know anything about why he starts in Nevermore?

14:13 Witness: - I had some on and where in your guild. I disappeared for a while, but later returned. But have been a little off and on. But in the first place from January to July.

14:13 Witness: - I do not know if it was 11 september, but I was hacked and had to create new character. There I waited a little.

14:13 Prosecutors Holden: - Breivik goes over to Nevermore. What kind of guild it is, or was it then?

14:14 Witness: - It's hardcore too. But they have more focus on efficiency. They play only four times a week, but has just as much preparation as the others.

14:14 Prosecutors Holden: - If we're talking hours are, how much he was in the game?

14:14 Witness: - He was well built 40 to 50 hours a week.

14:14 Prosecutors Holden: - Breivik has indicated that he was there about four times a week, from 19 to 23

14:15 Witness: - Well, it's raid time. But preparations for the coming as well. The raid is from 19-23, but it's preparations as well as takes time.

14:15 Prosecutors Holden asks if the subsequent guild Breivik joined in.

14:15 Witness: - It was kind of an offshoot from the unit who may feel that they were not at that level and would have it a little quieter.

14:16 Witness: - It is difficult to say, I do not know so well. But maybe five times a week.

14:16 Prosecutors Holden: - Compared with Nevermore?

14:16 Witness: - It is a little less hardcore. Less focus on doing well.

14:17 Prosecutors Holden asks the witness to explain how he perceived Breivik.

14:17 Witness: - It was when I recruited him 23 January 2007. He seemed calm, modest, intelligent. I think he was above average social in the game. He had good skills.

14:18 Witness: - Some strong personal relationship I had not Breivik. We never discussed politics, but we were discussing football because he held with Lyn and I Vålerenga. All in all, he seemed like most others. A I would like.

14:18 Witness: - He seemed conscientious and showed respect and be able to get more responsibility.

14:19 Prosecutors Holden: - Can you say anything more about it that he was respected as a person and player?

14:19 Witness: - It was more socialized with him. In a forum post, he wrote that he wanted to start playing Age of Conan. Many wrote that they would play with him.

14:19 Prosecutors Holden: - What is a friendship in the game?

14:19 Witness: - You have friends there. One is a bit different because it takes away the prejudice that mental and physical attitudes. You become like a family.

14:19 Prosecutors Holden: - What about the topics of conversation. Is it only games?

14:20 Witness: - Beyond the talking during raids as we talk about everything else.

14:20 Prosecutors Holden: - Were you aware of Breivik's personality in other areas?

14:20 Witness: - I remember that he was a Lightning fan and that he lived at.

14:20 Prosecutors Holden: - How about a book that he reportedly kept on writing?

14:20 Witness: - No, I have never heard of.

14:20 Prosecutors Holden: - He showed genuine joy, can you elaborate a bit?

14:21 Witness: - There are three videos posted by another Maiga. There is a class in the game. Several other than Anders was. It was laid out three or four videos where Anders is with. After they were finished, it is common to hear what you are talking about. Then you could hear Anders laugh.

14:22 Prosecutors Holden: - Can you give us examples of how he was good at motivating others?

14:22 Witness: - He was good at motivating others. Some weeks, people were weary and tired and when he motivated them. He said now do you do such and such, so do we.

14:22 Prosecutors Holden: - What can you say about temperament?

14:22 Witness: - There were several who had temperament. When you get tired come, but he never showed it.

14:22 Prosecutors Holden: - In the interview, you were more explicit, the defendant was never angry, you said there.

14:23 Prosecutors Holden: - Can you say something about how well he handled the guild?

14:23 Witness: - He handled it very well. He is one of the best officers I have had. And I've had maybe 20-30. He did what he should and nothing more. He was a good report.

14:24 Prosecutors Engh: - Lived in the Oslo at this time, did you agree that you should meet?

14:24 Witness: - I lived in Oslo. I lived not too far away from him.

14:24 Prosecutors Engh: - Is it normal to meet physically?

14:24 The witness said that there was talk about the meet, but that did not happen.

14:25 Witness: - People who are there may have hard times at home. It's nice to have the virtual world. There are several that have seemed that way. You take no position on it, there is no prejudice to the Internet when you do not meet them face to face.

14:26 Witness: - I started after I lost my mother. Then I started to play quite a bit and shut out a lot. It was wonderful to be able to do so.

14:26 Prosecutors Engh: - What was the difference between the social contact that you had in the game and the other connector?

14:26 Witness: - It was a family to me in the game. I felt like I was part of something.

14:26 Witness: - You can not stop when you want. You must be all the time. You do not have the ability to switch off and relax.

14:27 Prosecutors Engh: - Was that why you were into the game at that time?

14:27 Witness: - It went very well. It was a way to socialize for me.

14:27 Prosecutors Engh: - If you only social contact through the game, or did you have others?

14:27 Witness: - It was almost entirely in the game. It lasted nearly two years.

14:27 Prosecutors Engh: - Why stop there?

14:28 Prosecutors Engh: - How is your social contacts?

14:28 Witness: - I just had to move on. I had a break when I was in the military, but I played for two years after that before I began to study.

14:28 Prosecutors Engh: - What do you think that your social contact only in the game?

14:28 The witness says that he still has contact with those he played with in WoW.

14:29 Witness: - It was a good time in a very bad time when I played.

14:29 The judge interrupts the prosecutor and say that this is not within the witness's duty to respond.

14:30 The witness says that if one is not social in the game will come nowhere.

14:32 Tørrisen is asking the witness how he knew that Breivik had such a guild.

14:32 Witness: - I know because he gave it from the guild to Breivik, I had contact with.

14:32 Expert Tørrisen asks what proportion of time spent in preparation.

14:32 Witness: - It is very individual. You can do it in a couple of hours, but most people's in the game. There are many other things you can do.

14:33 Expert Tørrisen: - What about work capacity Breivik, you have the idea how he solved his duties? How is the feeling of mastery in this game?

14:33 Witness: - Breivik was a good player and a good officer.

14:33 Witness: - To be really good you have to spend much time.

14:34 Expert Tørrisen: - Can you say more about the social in the wake of a raid?

14:34 Witness: - When we were maybe 40 people inside the same virtual room and talked. It's like Skype with video.

14:34 Expert Tørrisen asks what the call is about.

14:34 Witness: - We could talk about what we had done and perhaps what would happen tomorrow. While others are talking about completely different things.

14:34 Expert Tørrisen: - Did you have many conversations with Breivik?

14:35 The witness says that he can not remember what he or others talked about Breivik.

14:35 Expert Tørrisen: - When you play 16 hours a day, you get no time for much else. How do you prepare?

14:35 Witness: - No, you have to work their way up. If it takes two hours, so you can do it whenever you want. One must not do it all the time.

14:35 Expert Tørrisen: - Sometimes Play from 19 to 23, could also play at night?

14:36 Witness: - We used a zone. Unit had a time zone.

14:36 Tørrisen does not have any more questions.

14:36 Expert Aspaas: - Can you say something about how you are perceived by others when you play so much?

14:37 Witness: - It is clear that the body changes. People in your family react to it and wonder if this is what I will pursue. There may be concern. For me it was not so much criticism, because I was in a heavy period.

14:38 The witness is asked about the player's user accounts one of the lay judges.

14:38 Witness: - You will never be thrown out. You have to pay monthly and when you can play all you want. But you will not be thrown out.

14:38 Witness: - You play at the same time. They should only show up when you are playing. We communicate in English.

14:39 The witness explained to questions from the lay judges that there are people from all over the world playing together.

14:40 The witness has finished his explanation.

14:41 The court will now comment on whether the next witness to be handled. Next witness is the psychiatrist who treated Breivik and his family during childhood.

14:42 The County has sent a letter to the court which states that the duty of confidentiality to the psychiatrist has been lifted, but that the testimony you shall take place behind closed doors.

14:43 Lawyer Yvonne Mette Larsen reading the letter from the County.

14:44 It discusses how child psychiatrist was employed at the time and conditions under which the current child psychiatrist should be exempted from the duty of confidentiality.

14:45 Larsen and judge Arntzen discussing.

14:46 Larsen asked if there are exceptions in Personnel whether the witness can be relieved of the duty of confidentiality. Larsen read from the text of the Act.

14:46 Larsen: - The court must consider evidence that the ban will lapse if it is in the relevant section.

14:46 Larsen refers to a judgment from the Supreme Court in 2006.

14:50 Larsen now discussing what speaks for and against the child psychiatrist must testify.

14:50 Larsen says Breivik that neither mother or even the accused in police interrogations have said that they could remember having been on that particular family center when the defendant was a kid.

14:52 Larsen: - If it is true that Breivik is criminally insane in a legal sense, he is innocent. The court does not know what the child psychiatrist will tell.

14:52 Larsen believes it will be relevant to elucidate Breivik's health from when he was four years old.

14:52 Prosecutors Inga Bejer Engh has the word.

14:53 Engh says that they can not rule out that this stay at the family center where Breivik and his mother was, may have left their mark.

14:54 The participants in the court discusses the pros and cons to whether confidentiality may be waived for that child psychiatrist, despite Breivik's mother has withdrawn its consent to this.

14:55 Defender Bæra exemption provisions in the legislation: - When it is argued that there are compelling arguments that confidentiality should be repealed, we do not agree.

14:56 Bæra says that others in Breivik's family mentioned in the document.

14:56 Bæra says Breivik previously gave consent to this, but have pulled it back after Breivik's mother did not want this.

14:57 Bæra reads from a letter from counsel to the Breivik's mother - My client does not agree that the two psychiatrists who referred you talk about the family's stay at the center at the time.

14:58 Lawyer Larsen: - When it comes to the consideration of these, it's been 28 years.

14:59 Lippestad get the word.

15:00 Lippestad: - Aid lawyers say that this is the closest yelling of emergency, while the prosecutor believes there is additional information. I agree with the prosecutor that this is complementary and not talk about a principle of necessity.

15:00 Breivik wish to make a comment, said defense carry.

15:00 Judge Arntzen said that a decision will be made until Friday morning, when a child psychologist to testify.

15:01 Judge Arntzen says Breivik not comment on what they just talked about because it is a procedural topic that only the court's participants to speak about.

15:01 Tomorrow Thursday is a court free day.

15:02 The court is adjourned.