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Anders Behring Breivik Court Transcript 2012-06-04 Live Report

Source: live.tv2.no/22-juli-rettssaken-direkte/dag-30/

Monday 4 June 2012

8:56 Good Monday morning from Oslo District Court.

9:00 Breivik are now entering the courtroom 250 in Oslo Courthouse.

9:03 The court is set.

9:04 The first witness maintained by Breivik's defenders today are Mattias Gardell. He is a researcher at the Department of religious history in Uppsala.

9:05 Lippestad ask Gardell to tell about his background.

9:05 - I am a historian of religion, Gardell starts.

9:06 Gardell has done field work in what he calls "the Aryan underground world."

9:07 He says that it also includes armed activists.

9:08 Gardell: - By my two recent studies, I discuss the anti-Islamic movement, or counter-Jihadist environments.

9:09 Gardell has also published eight books on nationalist themes.

9:10 Gardell has prepared a presentation that he will show the court.

9:11 The presentation is titled: "Anders Breivik Behring political scene location and image"

9:12 Judge Wenche Arntzen Gardell please explain what kind of assignments he has been given by Breivik's defenders.

9:13 Gardell: - My contribution will not be defending Breivik, but an account of the political world view this applies and how it has arisen.

9:15 The environment we face have been around for 20 years. The environment has been represented in most parliaments around Europe.

9:18 Gardell says that the people who are inspired by Breivik not need urging to violence.

9:19 Gardell: - Breivik appear to be more extreme than those he's inspired by.

9:21 Gardell now shows image of the manifest Breivik sent out before the terrorist attack.

9:22 Gardell says Breivik is heavily inspired by blogger Fjordman.

9:24 Gardell refutes that Breivik's manifesto is a plagiarism of the compendium to the Una-bomber Ted Kaczinskis.

9:24 Only three pages are taken from Una-bomb's manifesto, says Gardell.

9:26 Gardell rattles off Breivik political influences: Islamophobia, conservative cultural nationalism, anti-feminism.

9:27 He says Breivik also shows elements of the white power ideology.

9:28 Gardell refers to words Breivik have used, which have previously been referred to as words Breivik himself has invented.

9:29 Gardell refutes this and says that the words are known. For example, cultural Marxist or justice knight.

9:32 Gardell talking about Islamophobia. He believes this is not a phobia, and that confuses the word little.

9:33 Gardell: - For Breivik, Islam is the western world's enemy.

9:35 Gardell lists people Breivik wrote in his manifesto. For example, two people who were called as witnesses, but slitter to ask the witness stand: Peder Jensen aka Fjordman and the American writer Bruce Bawer who lives in Norway.

9:36 Gardell believe Fjordman is Breivik's most important influence in the manifest. Fjordman cited 1100 times in the manifest.

9:38 Gardell show called "Eurabia illustrations", taken from Breivik's manifesto. Among other things, an EU flag with a crescent moon in.

9:41 When it comes to cultural conservatism Breivik has four main inspirations. Several American writers associated with the conservative right-wing periodicals.

9:45 The third point Gardell will present the anti-feminism found in Breivik's manifesto. Here are Fjordman also mentioned.

9:46 - For Breivik and inspirations anti feminism plays an important role.

9:48 Gardell: - They refer to the 1950s as the ideal age. When men were men and there were no Muslims in the western world.

9:49 - Breivik see feminists as traitors. They have done so that men can change diapers, but not fight.

9:53 Gardell is now for the fourth theme. So-called white power ideology.

9:56 - Breivik believes that today there is no Jewish problem, except in France. He believes that Jews should live in Israel and possibly expand in the Palestinian areas. He will often help.

9:58 Gardell visi Pictures of four figures in the white power ideology. One of the most important stories here is "The Turner Diaries" written by Andrew McDonald.

9:59 Gardell refers to groups and racist serial killers in the United States.

10:00 Gardell also refers to Breivik European inspirations. As the man laser and laser-man 2, Peter Many in Sweden.

10:02 Gardell talking about that Breivik use the same rhetoric that white power groups in the United States.

10:03 Among other things, that in the 1980s made a mistake by not divide up into smaller cells in what they describe as a fight.

10:05 The fifth theme Gardell presents the Conservative Christian theology. Here you can find sources of inspiration that Francis Joseph Farah, Michael Bradley and the Tea Party movement.

10:06 - Breivik also quoted from the Gospel of Luke in his manifesto.

10:07 The sixth theme is the Templar tradition.

10:08 - Breivik is not the first to talk about a resurgence Templar order.

10:09 Gardell refers to the organization the Ku Klux Klan was inspired by the Templar Order.

10:11 Gardell: - Breivik is not the only one raving about the Crusader tradition. He is not the first to do so.

10:11 Gardell points including English Defence League.

10:13 Gardell:-The Breivik describes as Templar order is not an organization, but more an idea.

10:15 Gardell citing Fjordman and his opinion that a new anti-Islamic wars will appear. Gardell says Breivik that have taken him at his word.

10:16 Gardell: - Breivik had extensive contacts with the EDL in England.

10:17 Gardell talks about how millionaire Alan Lake associated EDLs ideas with football hooligans.

10:18 Gardell says now about how the EDL organization had branches in several European countries.

10:20 Gardell shows that if Breivik should follow the idea of a leaderless resistance, he should never have established contact with the Norwegian Defence League.

10:21 Gardell shows that both the Swedish Defence League and the Norwegian Defence League has struggled with weak leadership.

10:22 Gardell says that overall the umbrella organization Stop the Islamisation of Europe.

10:26 Gardell: - It is essentially fascist ideals Breivik is concerned.

10:27 - This is not a new vision Breivik presents. He is no mystery, he is a product of a political environment that he wants to inspire discipleship of.

10:28 The court will now break until 10:50

10:50 Breivik are brought back into the courtroom.

10:50 Now the defender Geir Lippestad questions to Gardell.

10:51 The court is set after the break.

10:54 Lippestad want to hear Gardell opinion on how a man who Breivik can become a terrorist.

10:57 Gardell says that by Breivik see a clear pattern. The fact that a terrorist does not necessarily need to be triggered by having experienced war. Gardell says that lack of socialization can be a reason.

10:57 Gardell: - Even the most solitary warriors may feel they are part of a larger movement.

11:00 Gardell says that in this environment is to resort to spectacular actions to promote a fight among others in the community.

11:02 Gardell: - People who carry out massacres such as in schools, is often inspired by others.

11:04 Gardell said known activists Laser Man is inspired by literature, as previously mentioned Turner Diaries The.

11:04 Gardell: - In this way, if you look at the attack on Oslo and Utøya, so it creates attention around the world.

11:05 Lippestad: - So you are saying is that one of the main goals of Breivik is to inspire others to similar actions around the world?

11:06 Gardell: - Yes. The idea is that they will escalate the war, they believe they are the next step.

11:07 Gardell: - It is a thought that it will create a civil war-like state. Breivik hope that it will be military coup. This is not something unique to Breivik. This is known mindset.

11:08 Lippestad: - We have spent much time here in court to clarify the Knights Templar network exists, or is simply a thought in Breivik's head. You pointed to Alan Lake. Can you say more about this?

11:09 Gardell: - When it comes to British Paul Ray and the organization he is at the forefront of it is much similar network Breivik describes.

11:10 Gardell: - There are indications that, for example, EDL is not a membership organization, but an idea.

11:11 Gardell says he can not say anything about whether the Knights Templar exists or not.

11:12 Lippestad want to know more about how these communities together and meet on the internet.

11:13 Gardell: - The Internet is very important as a debate forum. It creates many opportunities.

11:13 Gardell: - Authors of texts achieves a kind of stardom in these discussion forums.

11:14 Lippestad: Breivik compendium. How would you say the quality is?

11:16 Gardell: - texts and ideas are not particularly unusual. They are in different parts of the network. Through research, I can say that I am skeptical of this vision of the future Breivik outlines. We know that these texts circulating now on the Internet and are translated into different languages using Google translate, maybe not the best way to put on.

11:19 Medforsvarer Mostly Grounded ask Gardell can say something about Breivik's perception of being in a civil war is shared by others.

11:20 Gardell confirms that there are many who share this view. Again, he points to Peder Jensen, known as the blogger Fjordman. Gardell says this view is a fairly standard idea.

11:20 Prosecutors Inga Bejer Engh ask Gardell comment that Breivik's motive for acts of lacks context.

11:23 A terrorism researcher who testified last week that claimed, referring to Timothy McWeigh had just this. Gardell says Breivik title of the manifesto is extracted from the same inspiration that was the case there.

11:25 Gardell believe Breivik has contexts that we have seen in others. Gardell cites heroism. Han believe that this will appear in the manifest.

11:31 Lawyer Frode Elgesem have any questions on the Swedish scientist. Elgesem wonder if other political terrorists are found psychotic.

11:32 Gardell says that it is different because the forensic psychiatric practice is different around the world.

11:32 Elgesem shows that the Unabomber was declared psychotic, but Gardell says he does not know whether there has been some debate about this.

11:38 Gardell is asked of lay judges if he has considered the quality of Breivik's manifesto. Gardell replies that he has not done so.

11:40 Judge Arntzen ask Gardell has some thoughts on diary notes Breivik has in its manifesto.

11:42 Gardell: - Yes, I have thought about it. It is an interesting element. It may be that he tries to write his biography. I understand exactly what that Breivik regretted some of this.

11:42 There are no more questions to Mattias Gardell.

11:42 Court takes break to 12.45.

12:47 The court is left after an hour's break. Now it's Nikolai Brandal, historian at the University of Oslo to witness.

12:48 Brandal is obtained by Breivik's defenders.

12:49 Defender Vibeke Hein Bæra ask Brandal explain what he works with. Brandal explains that in recent years he has worked with radicalization in the 1960s.

12:50 Brandal has prepared a presentation.

12:50 Brandal: - There are two ideal types of terrorism. 1. Those who want to restore an ideal society. Examples of this are the IRA and ETA.
12:50 2. Establishment of an ideal society.

12:51 Brandal: - The third are those we call hybrids. For example, Ted Kaczynski, Una-bomber, which would return to a pre-technological society. By hybrid-terrorism, we also find Al Qaeda.

12:54 Brandal shows the terrorist base. Sense of crisis "nomos". A threat to the community that must be solved. For some it can lead to creativity, the Munch painted "The Scream" as a result of such economic crisis.

12:54 Brandal: - The crisis may have both individual and collective basis.

12:55 The terrorist's way of solving this crisis is the so-called splitting, explains Brandal.

12:56 You get a development of a Manichaestic world view, it means that everything is placed into one of two categories, either good or evil.

12:56 This is the first of four stages of radicalization.

12:58 One gets a sense that an action, such as fire to a department store or rob a bank, should lead to a major upheaval.

12:58 Stage 2 calls Brandal Heroic doubling. - Anomias is replaced by fanaticism.

13:00 The third phase will focus on: - Ideologisation and rationalization of the manichaen hatred. - Development of a new ethic and great variations both in content and scope of expression.
13:00 Brandal refers to a book that explains how ordinary people become mass murderers.

13:00 An example here is an SS officer who killed a mother. He then looks to kill the child as a merciful act of the child can not survive without the mother.

13:02 Brandal refers to the book soldier showing that radicalization can happen just overnight.

13:05 - Transformation of terrorist new world view to a specific action.
13:05 - Implementation of the historic campaign.
13:05 - Takes only end when the goal is achieved. Or that they accept martyrdom that is a bad solution.

13:06 Brandal: - This case can be seen as part of this action. Potentially, this process will continue until the perpetrator is dead. There are examples of terrorists who are vice versa. In most cases, the terrorists are not the reverse.

13:09 Vibeke Hein Bæra ask how he is perceived Breivik's manifesto.
13:09 Brandal reviews the language as important historically in the propaganda purposes. He draws examples from the way the SS put the names of concentration camps.

13:11 Brandal says that words do not Breivik is new. Cultural Marxism is a word he knows well from his research work. Brandal says he does not know what knowledge Breivik have about this.

13:13 Vibeke Hein Bæra ask about the way Breivik has acted on is familiar.
13:13 Brandal: - Reason number one is that if we are to implement any state will not like, you have to isolate themselves and avoid being detected. You have to get rid of the sources of noise that will prevent the lead to be disturbed.

13:16 Mette Yvonne Larsen has questions to Brandal. She wonders if Brandal also believe, as Mattias Gardell, that Breivik's manifesto is not a plagiarism by Ted Kazcynskis manifest. Brandal referring to the manifesto consists of many different sources.

13:17 Brandal is completed in the witness box.

13:18 Now Breivik come with a supplementary explanation of the expert witnesses have said.

13:19 Prosecutors Holden shoots into him during the week to ask more questions to Breivik about the game World of Warcraft.

13:20 Medforsvarer Mostly Grounded enters and says Breivik will explain the radicalization.

13:20 Breivik: - radicalization is a kind of journey that you take. I have told you earlier about a number of factors. What I was not told much about before, it's personal.

13:21 Grounded: - Why are these events important?

13:21 Breivik: - When you conduct a policy you often have experienced injustice.

13:22 Grounded: - Can you tell us about events in childhood where it evolved?

13:23 Breivik: - When I was young I was with many foreign cultural. I was attracted to those who were not so feminized. I find that Norwegian men are very feminized.

13:23 Grounded: - You can tell about the first episode you remember.

13:24 Breivik: - Before I start, it is important to consider that it is not necessarily simple episodes that have shaped me, but the episodes in their entirety.

13:24 Breivik told that he will not name names in his explanation.

13:26 Breivik: - An episode I can tell you about was when I was six years old. The father of a Turkish friend of mine who suddenly, one day my bike was ruined ... I find it near the house. I ask my friend, he says it's his father who has done so.

13:26 Breivik: - He thought that I had offended him.

13:27 Breivik: - He worked at the Turkish embassy and was not such a lavkvalitetsmuslim.

13:27 Breivik tells about another situation where a dog must have been abused by a Muslim acquaintance.

13:28 Breivik: - In 1992 I was at a kiosk at. I and a friend were there. Kiosk owner was from Pakistan. He was very unstable and had run for children with a stick to beat them. In one case, he meant that we had insulted him. He paid a bunch of kids with candy so that they could take me and my buddy.

13:29 Breivik: - When we were taken by the older children, he came out with a stick and a bag, he would put the bag over my head, but we were not injured. I have also heard that he has been vodelig against others.

13:29 Breivik: - In 1994, when I was 15 years old, and attended high school, I had hung on the back of a subway car of Majorstuen to the Castle. The driver on the cart came for me on the platform and hit me in the face with a flat hand. I was the only one there, and there were no witnesses to it.

13:30 Breivik: - Another time, in 1994 when I was 15 years old. I was with someone else. They were a negative environment. It was an older Pakistani my buddy know. They spoke in Urdu. Then he hit me with a flat hand.

13:31 Breivik - I was at a party at Tåsen in 1995, and those who had the party said they had had much trouble with a Moroccan gang. I also heard about a rape. When I was at the party, I heard that they were on Tåsen center and robbed youth. Some of us went to the mall. There we saw a pretty well known violent gang.

13:32 Breivik-Some had taken the weapons from the party. Some began to fight. I got a billiardkølle in the head. They were quite experienced with violence. It could have gone much worse.

13:33 Breivik: - Since I'm talking about the gang at Tåsen, so we had much trouble with Muslims at the time. I heard about a girl who had been raped at a party there. But I never got to name her.

13:33 Breivik: - A Danish friend of mine was robbed by this gang. They stood behind many crimes in the early 90th century.

13:34 Breivik: - A little sister of the leader of the gang at Tåsen, had been cut in the face with a knife by a Muslim. I do not know who did it, but I think maybe it was part of the same conflict with the gang.

13:35 Breivik: - When I went to Rice School, obtained a Pakistani friend confessed to the school, where we were robbed. An Albanian was told to threaten me.

13:35 Breivik: - In 1995 the Skøyen tram station was an Albanian who threatened one of my best friends. He was a violence-oriented Muslim who lived at. He and his family lived there because they had an apartment of the public.

13:35 Breivik: - In 1996, threatened my ex-friend from Pakistan, one of my best friends.

13:37 Breivik: - I was at a party at Grefsen and met someone I knew who was Norwegian-Pakistanis. They stole a lot of the party, and attacked me on the bus afterwards. He was not stronger than I could push him away. When we got off the bus, they tried to organize an attack on me. I get told to run away. It ends with me running away, and the cemetery next to the saws. Then I'm away.

13:38 Breivik: - In 1997, when I was 18 I was at a club with the same mate. There I attempted robbery of a Pakistani. But I knew another Pakistani who was in A-gang. He asked when he would rob me of running away. I had quite a few contacts in the community then.

13:39 Breivik: - In 1996, a friend of mine attack on Majorstuen. It was really just blind violence, but he knew who he was. so it was maybe something else too.

13:40 Breivik: - When I was 20 I was with a friend who was adopted from Colombia. We were at a club in the limit when it was a bunch of Muslims. One of them began to scream for my friend, and believed that he had received a glance. He was attacked, and I will be attacked. I get a slap in the face, and one nasal wall break. That's the reason I later operated nose.

13:40 Breivik takes himself to mention the names of comrades, as he promised the judge not to do. Breivik apologize for the above law.

13:41 Breivik says that his friend has said he does not remember this incident.

13:41 Breivik tells a story of bohemian club, where a Pakistani should have tried to rob him.

13:41 His friends do not remember this episode.

13:44 Breivik: - In 2000 I was with friends down by Klingenberg. We should eat and it was pretty late. I think this is the first time I tried to smoke, because I was pretty dizzy. When it comes away some Albanians and says I have ruined their bike. They say they want my money, they do not give up even if my friends come over.
13:44 We say that we can take out money to them, and they go with us over to Burger King. We considered calling the police, but gradually disappear Albanians.

13:45 Breivik: - There are three events that include rape. One of them was Tåsen in 1995, another a gang rape in the park in 1996. It was a Norwegian girl who was raped by more than two Muslims. It was reviewed.

13:45 Breivik: - In Oslo Handel, I had a friend who lived in Holmlia. There were rumors that she was raped by two Pakistanis at a party.

13:45 Breivik does not complete and proceed to the next episode.

13:46 Breivik: - A Kosovo Albanian and his friends have put a lot of trouble for the young at Skøyen the last ten years. They attacked the little brother to the best my friend. He ended up in a coma after being kicked in the head.

13:47 Breivik: - Another brother of a friend of mine has said that he has big problem with Pakistanis at her school.

13:48 Breivik: - On the western Oslo government buys an apartment in each section. It is often asylum seekers who receive these apartments. Those who lived in the hallway to my mother yelled, and she gave them told to calm down. Then she got an open garbage bag sitting outside the door. It was offensive. There are many other such stories.

13:49 Breivik goes on to tell about the episodes he says has influenced him.

13:51 Breivik: - In all of these events is that immigrants have access to apartments in Oslo west and creates problems. There are many who feel a rage against what is going on, but in some of these cases, I could have chosen to fight back and hurt many of these Muslims, but I see in retrospect that it was not appropriate.

13:52 Defender Lippestad: - You have now gone through what you call personal experiences. What I'm going to ask you about now, is more general impact. You have to answer short, otherwise I'm going to stop you. But first defender Grounded ask some questions.

13:53 Breivik: - Each of these incidents in isolation is not as important. There is a whole that this has affected me.

13:53 Grounded: - You remember many details about the events. Is there anything special that has attached itself?

13:53 Breivik: - There are many details that I remember, but the important thing is that you look at events like this that the issues trivialized in the media. Norwegian youth who rebukes being branded a radical.

13:54 Grounded: - There are a number of individual events. What is common to them?

13:54 Breivik: - Common is well that where there are cultures that are incompatible, so there will be conflict.

13:54 Grounded: - You said earlier that you were aware of the ideological middle school?

13:56 Breivik: - The most important point for me came when I was 15-16 years. I saw that Norwegian youth was called potatoes and Norwegian girls were called potato whores. The only thing the media was looking for the fascists. To a certain extent, it was defended that it was our fault that we were abused. Their violence is a result of our intolerance. It's a paradoxical argument that is very provocative.

13:56 Grounded: - You have pointed out the school system as the cause of your radical?

13:57 Breivik: - Do you think then that the worldview you learn in school and in songs like "Children of the Rainbow"? It is believed that one learns in school is correct too suddenly you become the victim of a assault or rape. It is clear that the shock for me is to find out that the world was different than what I was told.

13:57 Grounded: - When did you find out that the world was different than what you had been told?

13:58 Breivik: - I saw that Muslims went on a cruise to the western edge and had beaten up "potatoes" and "potato whores". Also they boasted of it.

13:59 Breivik believes that since he sees it so that you can not protect your friends and their communities, it is an important reason for radicalization and the direction he took political.

13:59 Grounded: - How did the process from these experiences until you became politically active?

13:59 Breivik: - When I began to engage in politics. I would do mine.

13:59 Grounded: - Was the Muslim mindset familiar to you?

14:00 Breivik - I was probably one of the few who knew what it was. This was before 11 september 2001. I knew what this was about.

14:00 Breivik: - All those events I mentioned happened before I decided to seek contact with militant nationalists. It was in 2001 I first came into contact with this environment.

14:01 Grounded: - Was it something you spent so much time putting you into then?

14:01 Breivik: - At this point, I vacillated a lot. I did not know if I should seek violent solutions or just put on blinders and think about the business.

14:02 Grounded: You went to Liberia to meet a Serbia that you had contact with on the internet. Can you say something about how it was?

14:03 Breivik: - Now we come in on something that VG had written about on Friday. Alpha Kallon as they spoke with my contact there. I heard him I was going to meet down there was a violent person and unstable. But he was a Serbian war hero. I figured that if he felt I had done something against him, he would not hesitate to kill me. So I came in contact with two other people. Alfa was one of them.

14:03 Breivik: - One said to me that if I was betraying his Serb, he would shoot me.

14:04 Breivik: - On the journey there was also a radicalization that was there.

14:04 Grounded: - You went on to London at the foundation meeting, and have said that you later have been in two meetings. Has this contributed to radicalization?

14:05 Breivik: - So when I came back to Norway from London and the inaugural meeting, it was planned Oh .. I was in a trance, when I planned another trip. It's also why I sent the money to plug in Liberia. But then I changed my mind, for it would be too dangerous.

14:06 Breivik: - What happened on Friday with the VG's revelation proves that I was not exposed to Nigerian Scams, so prosecutors will have it.

14:06 Breivik: - There is also the basis for what happened after 2006.

14:07 Grounded: - You started writing the compendium, and so did you decide to commit a violent reaction. How was the writing process in terms of radicalization?

14:07 Breivik: - I think probably that the compendium helped to radicalize me. But the decision not to start an NGO, but it was when I started with the compendium. I had already decided and that was why I took a sabbatical.

14:07 Breivik: - The reason I'm here today because, as a result of a lot of coincidences.

14:08 Breivik: - Peaceful struggle is impossible. Therefore, people jump over the peaceful struggle and go straight to violence.

14:09 Grounded: - Is there anything you have received from others, or experienced yourself?

14:09 Breivik: - I have been in the ideological closet all the time, but I see others who have really been badly treated. Just look at Tore Tvedt. I do not think I had the strength that he has to lead a peaceful struggle. There are not many opportunities to fight democratic.

14:10 Grounded: - You have said little about how it is to have these opinions, but do you have any thoughts on how it is to be politically active in the light of this?

14:11 Breivik: - I have explained very well for it in the introductory statement. But it is the that there is no room for conservatism in Norway. There is no room to express themselves unless you are politically correct.

14:12 Lippestad: - What the Internet has meant to the development of your ideology and the compendium?

14:12 Breivik: - It was through the internet I came in contact with the militant nationalists. That was how I got the basis for my ideological commitment. Although I toned down the rhetoric really to not be flagged, so you could talk.

14:13 Lippestad: - The Internet is a relatively new medium, how does the dialogue here, as you have experienced it in your environment?

14:14 Breivik: - I think probably that there are a large group of people who have a large selection needs. Therefore, using the pictures on their profile or controversial tattoos. But I would not be in contact with them, for they are the flag all together. I made contact with either moderate.

14:14 Lippestad: - How did you come in contact with those who seem moderate?

14:15 Breivik: - I think probably that most of the dialogue on the Web is quite moderate. We talk a lot between the lines, so that one can speak moderately, while the other will understand what it is. That's a language you know again. Expressing oneself not eksmtremt, but you understand each other anyway.

14:15 Lippestad: - It was possible to find out that it was you who spoke?

14:15 Breivik: - If I'm talking extreme, so I used the masking tool to not be flagged.

14:16 Lippestad: - you write a post, as others respond to, or how does this work?

14:17 Breivik: - I did a lot of research in connection with work on the compendium, when I was on many National Socialist forum. 90 percent of those on the Internet manifests itself never.

14:17 Breivik: - It is a virtual world. You meet people from all over the world. If you're chatting with one of South Africa, for example, then forbrødrer Mon through online.

14:18 Lippestad: - Chat, it is to have a conversation?

14:18 Breivik: - There are groups that are action groups. People comment on articles, it's a ideoligisk high level, while others prefer the more popular words and phrases. There are groups for everyone.

14:20 Lippestad: - You have questioned said that when no information can find it online, and you have found about 80 percent of blogs and other sites.

14:21 Lippestad: - Where have you found the information?

14:22 Breivik: - my intention was to impart knowledge, not necessarily to show off.

14:22 Breivik: - I think most of what I've taken have been found on the web.

14:23 Lippestad: - In an interview you gave 18 October you said that the first factor for radicalization is lavintensjihad. Why is this important to you?

14:23 Breivik: - That's only one way to describe the problem. Compendium and those who have written it has described issues Islamization of Europe. A word can be used on low-intensity conflict is the word. It is used by several authors.

14:23 Lippestad: - Is this part of the ongoing war?

14:24 Breivik: - The purpose is to prevent Islamization. How to user conflict is not so important, the important thing is to illuminate the conflict. I do not so much in certain words and if you can use the word effectively, it is appropriate to use it.

14:25 Court takes break to 14.45.

14:47 Breivik smiles and laughs as he talks with his defense.

14:48 Lippestad continues his questioning of Breivik.

14:48 Breivik are concerned that he did not have time enough to explain, but Lippestad calms him.

14:49 Lippestad: - Back to the Internet and radicalization .. in 2006 moved the home to your mother, and there was a change of pace in your life compared to having contact with others. What did the internet for you in the years after this?

14:51 Breivik: - In 2006 I decided to carry out a suicide mission. I knew I was going to make a compendium, but before that I had a dream about playing hardcore World of Warcraft. I had wanted for a long time to take a year and play this. I came to a stage where I realized that I had to isolate myself.

14:51 Lippestad: - How do you socialize when you play?

14:51 Breivik: - The game's to collaborate and communicate with others. I formed a community play with them. The social aspect is just as present, it's just a little different.

14:51 Lippestad: - Were you still in touch with like-minded in this period?

14:52 Breivik - I thought I would reward myself by giving myself a martyr estate gift. The person I told thought I was a compulsive gambler.

14:53 Breivik: - I took up contact with my friends, for the plan was to cut off contact completely.

14:53 Lippestad: - Why did you have planned to cut contact with your friends?

14:53 Breivik - I thought that maybe it is absolutely necessary to have normal relationships to at all not be entirely gratuitous.

14:53 Lippestad: - Did you have contact with others?

14:54 Breivik: - Besides friends I had contact in the Masonic Order and the shooting club. In addition, there were perhaps some political meetings. But I had extensive contact through Facebook.

14:55 Breivik: - To provide some references, you can see the blind people and people in wheelchairs, they are very social and can be on the internet. But for me it was political Facebook contacts. With the exception of the Sabbath, I may be out partying 6-7 times per year.

14:56 Breivik: - From 2007, the daily contact, because I work on the compendium of full-time. I had to get feedback. I communicated with hundreds of people in that phase. At the end communicated with thousands of my people. Finally, there are so many that I could not stay this contact.

14:57 Lippestad: - How did this contact your radicalization?

14:57 Breivik: - I had very little contact with the Knights Templar Network. My main contact was with moderate people with moderate attitudes. It was not necessarily so radically.

14:58 Lippestad: - Were you stronger in your faith through this contact?

14:58 Breivik: - Anything that you ask about often is whether the ideology, embrace the fact is a sustainable ideology. You can see if it goes in the direction you expect.

14:59 Brevik refers to increasing immigration in Oslo and that immigrants are in the majority in some districts.

14:59 Breivik: - The primary points of discussion is what is found in the newspapers daily.

15:00 Lippestad: - Were you agree that it was censorship?

15:00 Breivik: - There is a consensus. There is a consensus on the right side as it is on the left side. Among other things, this network of writers that are described here in recent days, there is a consensus.

15:01 Lippestad: - Would you have more, or another type of information if you had met people physically?

15:01 Breivik: - It gives the other aspects of it to meet people face to face, but purely informational purposes, I would say that the Internet is 1000 times as well. It is a fantastic medium.

15:02 Lippestad Breivik please tell us about the relationship with the mother.

15:02 Breivik: - We did not like that very close contact. I rented a room with her and we talked together maybe once a day.

15:02 Lippestad: - What could such a call about?

15:03 Brievik says that the relationship was good and that they never quarreled.

15:03 Breivik: - I could not tell her anything. I could not say that in a few years would I perform an action.

15:03 Lippestad: - What about meals as dinner? Ate it all together then?

15:03 Breivik: - We used to have dinner together.

15:04 Lippestad refers to one of the police interviews with Breivik, where he has stated that the asylum system and the Labour Party have contributed to his radicalization.

15:05 Breivik: - I covered this very well in the introductory statement. But the main reason is that the establishment carries out a process which Norway will be converted into a multi-ethnic society, and the people are asked. Just look at the family reunion scheme. Any person with decency can not sit and watch as this is done.

15:07 Breivik: - I have a way of experimenting a bit with conventional politics. I was in a party and learned quickly how the common lot of work work, and saw that it was not possible to do something through the regular party work.
15:07 For example, do not get the FRP expression because it is an unsolicited message, which is based on an inhumane world view. Freedom of expression is an empty word.

15:07 Lippestad: - Is that what you call censorship, the censorship wall we have in Norway and Europe?

15:07 Breivik: - Right. One should not be allowed to criticize the multicultural project. That is the basis for the peaceful revolution is not present.

15:08 Lippestad: - You have referred to a special event that should have meant a lot for your radicalization to take this step ..? What you say about the Balkan war ..?

15:09 Breivik: - What I've said is that the Balkan war is what made the cup ran over. for me and very many. Many of these factors I mentioned a lot in my introduction. It's a shame to mention something and not all.

15:10 Lippestad: - We have heard the experts say about the ideologues and thinkers within the right-wing environment. I would like to hear who you have been affected by. You mentioned someone in an interview in October?

15:11 Breivik: - It is very important to emphasize that the distinction between methodological influences and role models. There are many different role models.

15:12 Lippestad pull off some names: - Robert Spencer? Fjordman?

15:12 Breivik: - They write very well, but they do not support violence.

15:12 Lippestad: - Pam Gellar?

15:13 Breivik: - She's a Jew, but supports the struggle.

15:13 Lippestad: - The last theme, which you would like to say, other politically motivated acts of terrorism. Now you can talk about it, be my guest.

15:14 Breivik: - The biggest impact has been the spekatakulære violent attacks. I think the battle is waged by militant nationalists after World War II has been pathetic, but some have done little.

15:15 Breivik: - Has there been a resistance in Norway after World War II? Has it been politically motivated violence in Norway? Most were surprised that there were Islamists who were behind 22.7. But violence has been used systematically after 1947. It has been up to 40 attacks in Norway. Some left wing and some against immigrants.

15:16 Breivik - I belong to the part that supports the attack.

15:16 Breivik: - There are 7 killed, five bombings, 15 arson. More than a thousand threats.

15:17 Breivik says that there have been several attacks in Sweden.

15:17 Breivik: - In 1977, a bookstore in Tromsø blown up.

15:17 Breivik refers to the attack on 1 May parade in Oslo conducted by Kyvik.

15:18 Breivik talk further about the radical right environment with origins in the Home Guard Youth, where two people were killed because they were seen as whistleblowers.

15:18 Breivik: - in 1985, a mosque at Frogner blown up by a nationalist party.

15:20 Breivik refers to several attacks on shops, flykningeboliger and Blitz House.

15:20 Breivik: - 1994, a powerful bomb against the Blitz House in Oslo. It should have been right wing equipped with guns behind.

15:21 Breivik continue to list events that neo-Nazis Johnny Olsen should have been behind.

15:22 Breivik performs a chronological litany of what he sees as violence carried out by the right wing to left wing and immigrants.

15:24 Breivik cites the murder of Benjamin Hermansen.

15:25 Breivik believe that after this incident was the Norwegian police authority to destroy all anti-communist resistance. All this negative attention made it difficult for the radical right to meet.

15:26 Breivik says that the then Justice Minister Odd Einar Dørum in a common plan put a lid over an attack on Dørum to prevent recruitment of the right radical environment.

15:27 Breivik: - One can not compare all these little incidents that have occurred (July 22, editor.), But these events should be interpreted as opposition to the multicultural experiment.

15:27 Breivik: - 22 July joins the range that it has been a tradition of attacks.

15:28 Breivik: - I think there has been significant, although many of these attacks are quite wretched. I look at some of them as heroes because they have sacrificed see to the matter, although it was not a major action.

15:30 Prosecutors Holden: - You told us about a brutal Serb that you would meet in Liberia and Alpha Kallon. Known each other?

15:30 Breivik: - No, they never met each other. My cover had never been if I had met someone else.

15:31 Breivik: - So .. the reason I had a cover was if there was going as I planned. Therefore, I was depending on that they met the other. If I was in contact with the person concerned and that he thought I did wrong and that he wanted to eliminate me so he would know what I would do.

15:31 Prosecutors Svein Holden - This I understood nothing of? Had it been a problem on Alpha as Serb?

15:32 Breivik: - Alpha had much contact with the authorities. Alpha-known regime of Charles Taylor. I asked Kallon if he could take me to see some diamonds.

15:32 Holden: - Can you tell us about the diamonds you watched?

15:33 Breivik: - He asked why I did not want to buy diamonds, because I could not say anything about why I was there. I said I would only consider buying diamonds.

15:33 Holden: - You said that there was a time you and Alpha went and looked at diamonds. Could it have been more than twice?

15:34 Breivik: - No. One of the few times we were in a back yard that I remember.

15:34 Bæra: - Have the police questioned Kollon Alpha?

15:34 Holden: - I have asked police to investigate this. We want to eventually get him here.

15:35 Breivik asks if Holden still believes he was exposed to Nigerian scams.

15:36 Holden responded that if they get Alpha Kallon to testify, they are interested in hearing what he has to say.

15:36 Breivik: - I do not think he will confirm it, because it goes against the law to sell diamonds.

15:36 Holden asks more about the episodes where Breivik should have been offered diamonds.

15:36 Breivik: - He had a BMW, and we ran a piece there. I actually think it was only once we drove to see the diamonds.

15:37 Breivik said that they were not so much together during their stay. They met a few times.

15:37 There was another person there, but Breivik says he will not disclose the identity of the person.

15:38 They should have been at a nightclub and a bank. Breivik will then have tried to change money, but there were no contacts in the central bank.

15:38 Holden: - How many hours were you with them down there?

15:39 Breivik: - No. .. I do not know. I have just now described six or seven occasions. So if one assumes that there were two hours on each meeting so you can just add a little to it.

15:39 Holden: - How much were you with the Serb?

15:39 Breivik: - I have no interest in talking about it and help to identify him.

15:40 Holden: - How will it be able to identify him if you tell how much you were together?

15:40 Breivik: - He lived in the capital.

15:40 Holden: - How did you get there?

15:40 Holden: - You drove a car there?

15:40 Breivik: - I will not contribute to idenfisere him.

15:41 Breivik - I drove a car there. I do not want you to find out who he is.

15:41 Holden: - Do you believe it?

15:41 Breivik: - You can perhaps find the surveillance photos and see a license plate. But it's not so easy.

15:42 Holden: - How can we get on with it?

15:42 Breivik: - We have different interests here, so I do not want to tell something more about it.

15:42 Holden: - What did you do with the Serb?

15:42 Breivik: - I have explained to me earlier in the interview, and I have no desire to say something more.

15:43 Lippestad said that there had been good with an interrogation in the case of Alpha Kallon, showing that the accused has the right to refuse to answer questions.

15:43 Holden: - But what did you do together?
15:43 Breivik: - I do not want to tell something more. I have not really said too much.

15:44 Breivik: - I was not told as much as I did.

15:44 Holden: - Do you think if we talk to Kallon, he will confirm what you say?

15:44 Breivik: - It is not something I think, it's something I know.

15:46 Prosecutors Engh: You say that the Serb was known to be brutal. How could Alpha help you if he knew you were to hit Serb?

15:46 Breivik: - He had many contacts.

15:46 The prosecutor asks Holden Breivik talk about money transfers.

15:47 Breivik said he had intended to smuggle money into Liberia in the shoe sole, but regarded this as too risky and decided to transfer the large amount of money to Kallon.

15:48 This would be payment for the next trip Breivik planned to Liberia.

15:48 Holden: - How did it with this money?

15:48 Breivik: - I decided not to go and when I considered the money lost. The money was written off.

15:49 Holden: - Your friend said that you had received emails from Liberia in the aftermath?

15:49 Breivik - I corresponded with them and said I was down there again.

15:49 Holden: - they asked for money?

15:49 Breivik: - It may be that I owed some money and maybe they asked for more, I do not remember completely.

15:50 Lawyer Yvonne Mette Larsen asks Breivik tell about growing up and if he had any caregivers who have had similar views on immigration.

15:51 Breivik: - No. All my carers have been very tolerant. They have had a tolerant view on immigration.

15:51 Larsen: One of your friends have said that your mother said "do not always hang on the grip"?

15:51 Breivik: - Basically, does not it, but she may have been slightly influenced by me from 2006.

15:52 Larsen: - If she had any experiences with people of non-Norwegian background?

15:52 Larsen: - What are the experiences she had?

15:53 Breivik: - Apart from the one episode I talked about in place, it is only small situations. She could not quite in the context. People who follow the news to get the hundreds of episodes, but she's probably only two people personally.

15:53 Breivik: - There were people in recovery who yelled incredible, and a friend who was hard in the arm. It may have been several episodes that I do not know.

15:54 Breivik: - I remember she told me about a friend who had been taken hard in the arm of an immigrant. I remember that she failed to see the context in it. That action was a result of cultural differences.

15:55 Breivik: - I had to teach her that.

15:55 Breivik: - I saw no kontektst until I was 15 years.

15:55 Larsen: - To rule out that you have learned something about this to her?

15:55 Breivik: - She is very liberal and very tolerant person.

15:56 Lawyer Hallgren: Do you have some positive experiences with immigrants and Muslims?

15:57 Breivik: - I have it. No. .. that is .. my friendship with Muslims have shown that they are loyal. Perhaps more loyal than the Norwegians. Their æreskodekser is very present. If you're having trouble, so maybe they are the first that pops up in contrast to the Norwegians who do not set up.

15:57 Breivik: - I am also very concerned æreskodekser.

15:58 Breivik: - I have many positive experiences as well. For example, I showed up to now. That they set up and keep their word. They may have been good friends too. That we have had it well together.

15:58 Hallgren: - What are friends then?

15:59 Breivik: - Now I do not name names ...

15:59 Breivik still rattles the names of buddies he had, among other things, from Chile and Eritrea.

15:59 Breivik says that the Chilean family they knew was very close to his own family.

16:00 Hallgren: - Have you ever discussed your opinions with someone face to face?

16:01 Breivik: - There was a time I discussed the Hegnar forum where someone said he should notify the PST. Then I was anxious.

16:01 Breivik bragging about their ability to calm themselves out of difficult situations, like when he has gone too far in talking about their opinions.

16:01 Hallgren: - When did you get internet at home?

16:02 Breivik: - It was when I was 17 I think. I bought the PC itself I think.

16:03 Judge Lyng: - You have been on the episodes where you have been involved. What did you do in this situation? For example the one you told me about how you were beaten in the face of Tåsen, with a billiardkø?

16:03 Breivik: - I think I saw that there were attacked, so I tried to intervene when I received a blow on the head with a billiard cue. That's what I remember.

16:03 Judge Lyng: - You did not hit back? Are there any episodes?

16:03 Breivik: - Yes, that's right.

16:03 Judge Lyng: - You said you looked at them like animals?

16:04 Breivik: - A lot of people do not have much to lose, so there's no point in putting their future at stake because of this.

16:04 Brevik: - There are people who lack decency. People who are not civilized.

16:05 Breivik: - It was just coincidence that I did not hit then. In the episodes I have mentioned, so we went off course to confront them. So we wanted to protect our area.

16:06 He tells of the alleged situation where he should have been attempted robbery at Bohemians, where he responded by threatening to smash the face of the person.

16:06 Heather: - What is a lavkvalitetsmuslim?

16:07 Breivik: I have not used this term before today, but I mean an uneducated man, for example an Al Shabab member from Somalia.

16:08 Breivik relates another episode in question from the judge Arntzen. In an episode of Egertorget Breivik admits that it was he who first provoked.

16:09 Judge Arntzen ask Breivik has done anything special to end up in all these situations, but rejects him.

16:09 Prosecutors Engh: - You have experienced many of these issues with your friends. Do you know why it's just you, and not one of them, sitting here today?

16:09 Breivik: - I guess other people who have experienced much worse things than me. Those who live in more exposed areas. Why it's me sitting is probably a sum of very many reasons.

16:10 Prosecutors Engh: - Is there something special about you?

16:10 Breivik: - It is well that a person who has æreskodekser coming into a situation where you need to create respect again. And I have, code of honor.

16:11 Prosecutors Engh: - Why hold this honor code and not others?

16:11 Breivik: - I have thought that many people get this from their fathers, but I have not gotten it from him. Neither my sister or my mother. I can not answer why I got it.

16:12 Lay judge Eielsen: - If you put an equal sign between education and quality of human beings?

16:12 Breivik: - It was a very casual comment. I ask you to ignore it. So just ignore that I said it.

16:13 Eielsen: - Have you had trouble with ethnic Norwegian?

16:13 Breivik: Once upon a time there was no ethnic Norwegian who was with Muslims, so I count that?

16:14 Holden said that Breivik's opponents in the World of Warkraft had agreed to meet in court. This can happen on Wednesday.

16:14 The court is adjourned for today.