Monday May 14, 2012 - Day 18
08.56 Breivik is led into the court room and placed one row further back than usual.
08.56 After the police has taken off his handcuffs he stands up and talk with his defender Vibeke Hein Bæra. He smiles, talks and looks around.
08.58 Defender Geir Lippestad gives clear messages to Breivik. He directs carefully with his arms while he's talking, and Breivik is listening. Courtroom 250 is far from filled up today. There are many empty seats at several places in the courtroom.
09.00 Professional judge Wenche Elizabeth Arntzen arrives.
09.01 Judge Wenche Elizabeth Arntzen: - The court is set. Today we continue with the presentation of evidence for the aggrieved on Utøya. We also continue with the presentation of evidence of those who were shot.
09.02 She asks if there are some points to review before the first witness gets summoned.
09.02 Prosecutor Svein Holden: - The prosecutors have been asked to specify the date and time for some of the witnesses who will testify this week.
09.03 Silja Kristi Anne Uteng (21) is the first witness today.
09.04 The witness waited anxiously while prosecutor Holden talked about the schedule. She now takes her seat in the witness box. [Gives witness oath]
09.04 Uteng was at the tent camp and was shot with a pistol or rifle while she fled. She was hit in the forearm.09.05 An aerial photo of Utøya is shown on the big screen in the hall.
09.05 Prosecutor Svein Holden: - You were on Utøya, July 22, tell us what happened that day?
09.05 Uteng: - I lay in the tent and was sleeping when it started, together with Veronika. We hear various bangs. I wake up first, and the first thing that struck me was that it was firecrackers, a bad joke. But that turned pretty quickly, because I checked my phone and had lots of missed calls and text messages. I hear from outside the tent: "Hush, you must be quiet". The next thing I hear is "run, run, run". I put my coat on, I jumped out of the tent, said to Veronika "you need to take your phone with you", and then we ran.
09.06 Holden: - Did you know what you were running from?
09.06 Uteng: - No, I knew nothing. It's not that I generally run when children light firecrackers. After the reaction from the others, I just did what they said.
09.06 Holden: - Where were you?
09.07 Uteng: - [ Uteng shows that her tent is standing at the edge of the campsite in the direction of Kjærlighetsstien. She shows on the map, far down at the tent camp] It was complete chaos, and while I was running, something slams into my arm. It hurt a lot. I went down and saw a big tree and a yellow tent string. It struck me at first that I must have tripped on the tent string, but I did not get that to be correct either. But then there was more panic and shots sounded everywhere. We run down toward the fence that runs along the forest here, and then I see two people falling down, and I currently don't know who it is. I see one that runs on the same square up and down all the time. And I still don't understand anything. I lost Veronika, I ran down here, and when we were coming down here there were lots and lots of bushes. When we arrived, there were many people in the water already, both with clothes and without clothes, and one of them said that we had to swim.
09.10 Holden: - Do you remember who that was?
09.11 Uteng: - It was a guy named Adrian. He shouted that I had to start swimming. I thought it was a very long way to the other side, and did not intend to start swimming. I sat in the bushes and looked at my phone and then there were even more who had called. My boyfriend called and said that there had been a bombing in Oslo. Then I replied that there is somebody who is shooting. I remembered that I had a completely white jacket on, so I was easily visible. I was on the side of the island where the few hiding places that existed were aleady taken.
09.12 Uteng: - And while I sit there hiding, I see something black that comes along. I was scared, I turned around and then I remember nothing more. The next thing I remember is that Veronica is standing with water up to the hip, not aware of anything and very cold. I could not let her swim alone. Then I remember no more until I had undressed. We just had to swim. [She remembers that the water was so cold that she had difficulty breathing]
09.13 Holden: - You saw something black and thought that it was Breivik. What can you say about it?
09.13 Uteng: - I do not know, but I interpreted it as dangerous.
09.13 Holden: - Did you hear any sounds at that time?
09.13 Uteng: - I remember the sounds from the time we woke up in the tent until we ran. Then I remember nothing, but I remember them as pretty close, and I had a white jacket as well so I was visible.
09.14 Holden: - You had a white jacket, you saw a person in black, and heard shooting. You said that you went into the water, what happened?
09.14 Uteng: - We swam for our lives, and the thing was that many had started before us and had ended up out here. Someone had started before us and was on their way over here [pointing straight south into the water from Sydspissen]. We swam straight ahead, while the largest group was over here. People began to shout "Help, help, help". Some shouted for help, but we asked them to stop because the perpetrator could hear it and because they had to save their energy.
09.15 - I also yelled that if anyone needed help, they had to speak up, because I felt pretty strong.
09.15 Holden: - Do you have any idea how many people were in the water at the time?
09.15 Uteng: - Probably 6-7 at the waterfront and maybe between 7 and 10 that had started to swim. There was one who said that I could not swim on my back, cause we'd be taken by the flow. I turn around and I see a person standing on the shore with something in his hands which glistens. I hear screaming and bangs twice, then I heard no more.
09.16 Holden: - It is difficult to determine distances, but how many yards out do you think you had come?
09.16 Uteng: - Between 100 and 200 meters. It is hard to say. I saw something that glistened on his shoulder and he had white skin. I saw he had something in his hand, and heard bangs and screams and I saw someone in the waterfront.
09.17 Holden: - What happens next?
09.17 Uteng: - A boy says, "Can I swim with you?" He swam against the tide. Another boy says "can I swim with you?" Yes you can. But it must be a mistake in my order, because that boy was hit by a shot. How far away we were, I can not say. I remember hearing a groan, then I turn around, I see a boy lay behind me.
09.18 Holden: - Are you sure he was hit by a shot?
09.18 Uteng: - Veronica saw it, several have talked about it, but it might be wrong to say that I'm 100 percent sure, but I hear a groan, and he lies floating. [Uteng says that it was freezing in the water and she lost the feeling in her arms and legs .] I did not realize how cold it was until I got up. [ She and several others managed to swim all over to the land side. Uteng was number four who swam to the shore, and were welcomed by paramedics].
09.19 Holden says that the investigation has shown that Breivik did not hit anyone in the water when he was at Syspissen the first time.
09.19 Uteng: - I see a black figure, and I am thinking that now I will die. I thought they were on both sides, both at Utøya and at the land side.
09.20 Uteng: - I would rather drown than to be taken.
09.20 Uteng: - I also see someone trying to start a boat with an outboard engine, but he didn't manage it.
09.20 Holden: - We know that Reifulf is being shot at about five fifty?
09.20 Uteng: - Then that must have been earlier.
09.21 Holden: - It is not so important. You are certainly among the first to swim to shore. What happens next?
09.21 Uteng: - There are many people on a gravel road, and a bunch of ambulances. It was so cold the last two hundred meters, I had no feeling in my arms or legs. In the ambulance, we were told to undress and huddle up into blankets. It takes a while. They take our personalia etc. And suddenly one in the ambulance say "drive, drive, drive". We were first taken into a dark room, because they should probably check us, then we are taken into another room, where we got dry clothing. I borrowed a phone and I called home. We were also given food and drink. We realized that it was a serious situation when we saw a policeman, but I yet did not understand what had happened. Then we could only wait and hope that more people would arrive.
09.23 Holden: - When did you get information about what had happened?
09.23 Uteng: - It was when I undressed and saw that I had been shot and had blood on me.
09.23 Holden: - When did you realize the gravity?
09.23 Uteng: - I realized the seriousness when I stripped off my jacket and saw blood and holes in the jacket. I realized the seriousness because there were six armed police officers there.
09.24 Holden: - What happened after that?
09.24 Uteng: - After Esso?
09.24 Holden: - Yes, you have come to yourself a little again, and ...
09.24 Uteng: - What has happened is that I've had a hard time, mentally it was heavy and it had increased need for control, nothing was safe. [She has been in a rehabilitation center.] It passed, for I began to work and study, but I really have struggled with my health.
09.25 Holden: - What happened to your arm?
09.25 Uteng: - My arm was fine, it was just a projectile I got into my arm, but it was operated out.
09.25 Holden: - Did you know that you had a bullet in the arm?
09.25 Uteng: - No, I didn't, I realized in a way that I was shot, but when I got to Sundvolden I had somehow forgotten it, they asked if I was shot so I said I only had a scratch.
09.26 - I was told that it had to be cleaned. They didn't find anything, either. It did not hurt much, so I settled down with it. They could not feel anything in there, so they thought it had fallen out while I swum. And it didn't hurt. I went to the doctor when I got home, who took an x-ray. Then it turned out that I had a projectile in the arm, which was subsequently operated out. [When she came home Uteng began to feel numb in her fingers. It was due to the projectile which still lay inside the arm muscles.] I was very weak in the arm, and had to train it up again. The arm is very well today.
09.27 Holden: - I have no more question for you.
09.27 Arntzen: - Does anyone have any questions?
09.27 Aid Lawyer Nadia Hall Østby: - Do you work today?
09.27 [ Uteng has had 100 percent sick leave since January, and says she has to use the energy she has in the daily tasks.]
09.27 Arntzen: - Then you're done here, thank you for attending. Thank you very much.
09.27 Uteng leaves the court room and several of her friends and family follow her out.
09.28 Next witness is Lars Grønnestad.
09.29 Grønnestad oath before he starts his explanation in Courtroom 250 Aid Lawyer is Thor Harald Eik.
09.29 Engh: - Can you start by telling what you experienced on Utøya?
09.29 Grønnestad: - It would be nice to get a time from where I should start.
09.30 Engh: - Start with when you realized something happened?
09.30 Grønnestad: - I was at the camp. I tried to call my parents, who were abroad on holiday, to say that I was fine after what had happened in Oslo. I could not get through to my mother, but I reached my father. As I spoke with him, I heard bangs and screams. I was so focused to tell that I was fine, I just thought it was someone who lit firecrackers. [Showing on a map where he was at this point.] And while I'm standing talking on the phone, a bunch of youngsters come running towards me in a cluster, some of them were screaming "run", and that was when I realized something was wrong because I have never seen such sincere horror in my entire life.
09.32 Engh: - Where did you run?
09.32 Grønnestad: - I ran into the woods, and when I turn around I see a uniformed man who comes out from the café building with something that looked like a machine gun. [Showing on the map]. Then I hear someone shout "Stop, police", and I stop and look at the cop and wonder what is going on.
09.32 Engh asks if he knows who it was that was shouting, but he does not know.
09.33 We are a group that turns around. As I remember it was a bit weird, because I thought the cop was going to be a little more authoritarian and calm us down a bit, but the policeman who stood on top of the hill seemed as if he was going to get an overview of what happened. He did not talk to anyone, just stood there watching. And suddenly he raised his weapon against the gang that I'm in. [Grønnestad calls 113 while he tries to find a hiding place. He makes contact with a female operator and says he is shot. He is told to put pressure on the wound and gives her his phone number. Grønnestad can not remember where he ran, and is assisted by prosecutor Inga Bejer Engh to show where he ended up on the map in front of him. He hid under a tree by the Rock tent.]
09.34 Engh: - So he raise his weapon against you?
09.34 Grønnestad: - Yes. Then people start to run.
09.34 Engh: - Do you know what kind of weapon it is?
09.35 Grønnestad: - Somewhat reminiscent of a hunting weapon. I start running toward the woods. [Showing on the map where he ran]. When I came inside the tree line, I feel a pressure towards my back and a few meters later I collapse without warning. I have a hard time breathing. His shoulder joint wouldn't function and he could not lift his arm. I feel my back and I see blood on my hand. Then I realized I was shot. At this point I can not remember any others nearby, so I think I was alone. I remember thinking, I can not lie here, this is too open. While I was lying there, I start thinking about who might be behind this. A right-wing extremist or left-wing extremist or is it a state coup? I call 113, and come in contact with a woman who asks me what has happened. Can you breathe? she asks. I think so, I say. She asks me to put pressure on the wound, and that help is on the way. I hung up. As I lay on a rock to put pressure on the wound, I was called by some policemen who wondered where I was. I was a little hesitant at first, since it was a policeman who had shot me, but I found it to be the only solution to tell them where I was. [Grønnestad remembers that he could see the Rock Tent from his hiding place, while he talked to the police on the phone.]
09.38 Engh: - Had you been able to hide or were you in the same place?
09.38 Grønnestad: - I had come a little farther in on Utøya. I found one of two trees with branches along the ground [Shows where he hid. Prosecutor Bejer Engh hesitates a bit over this]
09.39 Engh: - You were in the middle of the campsite, could you have run a in different direction than you showed on the map?
09.39 Grønnestad: - Yes. So I lie there and talk to the police. And they asked what had happened and where I was, and I said I was not sure if I should say that, because it was a policeman who shot me. I said I saw a policeman, at least one who shot me, otherwise I do not know anything more.
09.40 Engh: - Were these police officers who were on their way?
09.40 Grønnestad: - It seemed as if it were a mobile in a car, I heard the sirens and the police said they were on their way. I heard they were sitting in a car. So we hang up because of low battery on my cell phone, and my mobile battery went empty shortly thereafter.
09.41 Engh: - Did you do anything to hide?
09.41 Grønnestad: - I was careful to hide as best as possible. I smeared dirt in my face, on my clothes and skin that was visible to hide as much as possible. It felt like someone had placed a boulder on my chest who pushed me against the ground.
09.41 Engh: - That was what it was like to breathe?
09.42 Grønnestad: - Very, very heavy, I drew very deep breaths but it seemed as if there was no oxygen. I do not remember any pain, it was just a very strong discomfort that the body was not working as it should and did not get enough oxygen. And while I was there, I felt that something began to disappear from my toes and fingers so I tried to keep them in motion to get blood to the fingers and toes, but it was uncomfortable.
09.42 Engh: - Were you conscious?
09.42 Grønnestad: - I dare not say. I fell in and out of consciousness, I think.
09.43 Engh: - Did you connect with others on the island?
09.43 Grønnestad: - Not after my mobile battery went out, before the police found me. After I had been there a while, I see two police officers in the forest, and they had a completely different attitude than the policeman I had seen earlier. They had completely different uniforms than the first man. They did not see me, so I shouted "hello" to connect. They came over, asked my name, if I was injured. They were seeking, as well, but in a completely different way. It seemed like they were looking for something specific.They found where I was injured and said that I have a punctured lung. Then they carried me into the Rock tent where I was placed in the arms of a girl named Jane. [Trying to remember more names.] I remember she asked how I was doing. I said I'm shot and don't think I should talk so much now.
09.45 Engh: - But before you came to the tent, do you know how long you were injured before the police arrived?
09.46 Grønnestad: - Based on personal experience, because I fell in and out of consciousness, I do not know. I've talked to the ambulance driver and he said I was in the ambulance just over 20.00. I talked to my dad on the phone 17.20. I was in the Rock tent for a little while. I think I was alone in the woods for about two hours.
09.46 Engh: - When you get the drain, are you still in the woods? Did it help?
09.46 Grønnestad: - Yes, very much. It relieved the pressure, literally.
09.46 Engh: - Then you can proceed.
09.47 Grønnestad: - I lay in the tent, then we were driven down to the dock. The policemen had to help me to walk because I was pretty anemic and I had trouble walking. Then we drove over to the land side from Utøya, where there was no ambulance, so we were sent away to Utvika camping. It was me, Jan Egil, Martha and Jane in the boat. Then we were told that we had to travel back from Utvika, for there was no ambulance there, I got an ambulance around eight, which drove me to the hospital, not to Ullevål, but to Ringerike, where they tried to get me in a little better shape and put me in an air ambulance on to ...
09.48 Engh: - Can you say what kind of damages you got?
09.48 Grønnestad: - The bullet went through the shoulder blade, ribs and punctured the lung and expanded, so that the bullet went into pieces. So the rest of the bullet remains in a pretty large span now.
09.48 Engh: - So you punctured a lung, and got two broken ribs.
09.49 Grønnestad: - Broke two ribs and the shoulder blade. I have slightly reduced lung function supposedly, but they do not know how it was before, so have nothing to compare with, I have been notified that it is decreased, but is still within the normal range. I must see when I start training again, if I encounter any major difficulties. [Grønnestad has gotten to know afterwards that he was very seriously injured.] If I had been lying there a quarter of an hour longer, I would not be here today, he said.
09.50 Engh: - How are you today in terms of damage?
09.50 Grønnestad: - better form today. They say I have slightly reduced lung function.
09.50 Engh: - When you turned to the camp grounds and saw a police officer, did you get any impression of him? Did you get any impression of his mood?
09.50 Grønnestad: - No, I got no impression.
09.50 Engh: - In the interview, you said that he seemed calm, but absent?
09.51 Grønnestad: - I've been thinking about I said that, in retrospect. He seemed calm because he had no sudden movements except when he raised the gun.
09.51 Engh: - While lying under the tree, did you hear any sounds?
09.51 Grønnestad: - Yes, shots and screams. I lay on the ground and it was raining, so I heard a lot of noises when the drops hit the ground. But I heard a lot of shots and many screams.
09.52 Engh: - Did you see clearly?
09.52 Grønnestad: - A little, I got some white spots in my vision.
09.52 Engh: - Did you at any time attempt to shout for help?
09.52 Grønnestad: - Maybe at some point, but it was hard to get a powerful voice.
09.53 Engh: - Did you get a sense of how serious your injury was, when you got to the doctor?
09.53 Grønnestad: - Some doctors have told me that "If it had been 15 minutes later, I would not be here today". Very serious.
09.53 Engh: - I understand that you study at the University. When did you start there?
09.53 Grønnestad: - I moved to Trondheim 10 days after I was discharged.
09.53 Engh: - How was it?
09.54 Grønnestad: - It was both good and bad. You are one of the crowd, and not 'that guy who was injured on Utøya'. If I hadn't been studying, I had been that guy. So I'm very glad that I did that.
09.54 Engh: - How has the academic year been?
09.54 Grønnestad: - The academic year has been special, especially in the beginning. It's been fine with the lung. The broken ribs take some time. And there has been a new place with new sounds. I'm a little sensitive to new loud noises.
09.55 Engh: - Otherwise, mentally, how are you today?
09.55 Grønnestad: - It's fine, I don't react well to loud noises. I maybe appreciate things more now, enjoying myself increasingly with friends, and appreciate things more than I did before. It's fine.
09.55 Defender Geir Lippestad gets the word.
09.56 Lippestad: - You have said that there was a man shouting, "Stop, it's the police". Do you remember who that was?
09.56 Grønnestad: - No, I do not remember.
09.56 Lippestad: - You explained in the police explanation that the killer shouted "stop"
09.57 Grønnestad: - Unfortunately I can not ... I must have said it wrong in the testimony, because I do not remember who said it. There was a lot of chaos.
09.57 Lippestad: - Is it possible to say something about the tone of voice of the person who shouted, did you, when you heard this cry, think that we must stop as it is the police? What did you think when you heard the cry?
09.57 Grønnestad: - Yes, I thought so, but I do not know what the others were thinking. I thought, why do we run from the police. They're here to make us safe.
09.58 Lippestad: - You also said that it looked as if the person who looked like a cop tried to get an overview. Can you try to explain, what did you put into it, how did you interpret the situation?
09.58 Grønnestad: - When a person scouts down a hill, I would say it is because they're trying to get an overview. That's what I put into it.
09.58 Lippestad: - I have no more questions.
09.58 Arntzen: - Do the defense, counsel or the court's members have any other questions? [...] Did you hear the perpetrator shout or make sound at any point?
09.59 Grønnestad: - Not that I can recall, no.
09.59 The judge says Grønnestad is finished and thanks him.
09.59 Arntzen: - There are no more questions for you, thank you for attending. We take a twenty-minute break, until twenty past eleven. Breivik must leave the court and sit in an adjoining room during the testimony of Frida Holm Skoglund, where he can follow what happens in court on a screen.
09.59 Grønnestad brought a note booklet and walks out with it in his hand.
10.00 Breivik is being handcuffed and goes out quickly without speaking much with his defenders.
10.19 Breivik enters the courtroom. He is met by Geir Lippestad, who brings him into the hallway just behind the defending places and talk to him. The defendant sits down, gets the handcuffs removed and listens while Lippestad talking with one of the other defenders.
10.21 The proceedings continue.
10.21 Niels-Christian Petersen: - Witness Frida Holm Skoglund wants the defendant to leave the courtroom during the testimony.
10.22 Lippestad: - We have talked with the counsel about this, and we've talked with the defendant. We have no objections to that he follows the explanation on a screen from an adjoining room.
10.23 [The prosecutors have no objections]
10.24 Breivik is handcuffed and led out of the courtroom. [Breivik follows the proceedings on a monitor from another room]
10.24 Tord Jordet and Odd Ivar Grøn follow Breivik.
10.24 Judge Arntzen: - Then we come to the witness Frida Holm Skoglund.
10.25 Skoglund takes the oath before the judges, on their honor and conscience to give a truthful explanation.
10.26 Holden: - You told me you were a little nervous and we agreed that you should start with when you realized what happened. I shoot the questions. You can say so if you want a break along the way, deal? Where were you when you realized something happened?
10.26 Skoglund says it's okay.
10.27 Skoglund: - I sat on the outdoor stage at the camp ground. I was on the phone with my dad and then I heard gunshots. I thought it was gunpowder or something that the young children at Utøya was playing with, I did not understand why they would play with it there and then, so I went up to the trail. Then there was almost a flock of birds, of people who ran and said there was a man who was shooting, he came up the hill, so I was dragged down to the end of the camp ground.
10.28 Holden: - Do you remember what this man looked like, when he came up the hill?
10.28 Skoglund: - I remember very well the reflections on the pant legs, and then I realized it was a police uniform.
10.28 Holden: - What did this man do?
10.28 Skoglund: - He walked slowly down the path and did not shoot while he walked, we were then gathered at the end of the camp ground.
10.28 Holden: - Maybe you can show us on a map where he went.
10.29 Skoglund: - He was down here, and I saw that he went to the entrance to Lillesalen and he did not shoot as he went down. Then he paused and stood still a little and then there was someone who was going to talk some sense into him, asking what he was doing, there were several who left the group and walked against him, then he lifted up his gun and fired, and then we turned and ran, all together, into the woods.
10.29 Holden: - Did you see if he hit anyone while he stood outside the entrance to the café building?
10.30 Skoglund: - I remember I saw one or two fall, but I do not remember where I saw them or where I stood.
10.30 Holden: - Now you have told us how the man moved, and you said yourself that you were not sure where you stood. Can you try to guess it?
10.30 Skoglund: - [ Skoglund shows that they were several who were gathered in one corner of the camp site, farthest away from the café building. Pointing on an image of Utøya where she thinks she stood.] We were between 30 and 50 people who were gathered there in the cluster, but then we split up into smaller groups as we run towards the woods. I can't remember when I was shot, really, but it was when I came into the woods I noticed it. I did not realize what it was, but one friend said that I was shot in the thigh. I thought it was nonsense, that it was not a real bullet. But on the thigh, I felt something sharp and it was the bullet. When I threw the bullet away, I remember very well that it had a very strange shape. It was folded. But it did not hurt.
10.32 Holden: - It did not hurt? Can you tell us more about this?
10.33 Skoglund: - I did not know it was a bullet. It was weird and it was sort of folded and had a weird shape. I pulled it out. It was a little later that it began to hurt and sting and burn. I do not remember if there was any particularly blood. But I went quite a long time in the water.
10.33 Holden: - You went in the water or on the trail?
10.34 Skoglund: - I remember I went into the water. It went over my boots. Then I got a message from my mom where she said that they had sent my grandparents to get me. I told them not to send them here, I was shot and I was going to swim.
10.34 Holden: - Had you seen someone else get shot on the way to Sydspissen?
10.35 Skoglund: - I did not see anyone get shot, but I remember seeing someone fell down a slope or something like that.
10.35 Holden: - In the police interrogation, you told about a person behind you at the camp site?
10.35 Skoglund: - I remember one person behind me, a figure that fell.
10.35 Holden: - Apart from this and the person who fell down a cliff, you have not seen any?
10.35 Skoglund: - No.
10.36 Holden: - You are at Sydspissen, what happens there?
10.36 Skoglund: - We tried to get everyone out in the water, to get them to swim. And then very many are undressing the heaviest clothes. And I emptied my boots for water and let them down so it would not come more water in them, and left my phone in the inside pocket of my jacket, folded it together and hung it up in a tree, and folded my sweater and hung it up in a tree. I wore pants and a jumper, and slipped into the water when I was going to feel on the water. I had no plans to swim because it was so cold, but I slipped and then it was just to swim along. There were several that stood on the shore and we tried to get them to swim.
10.37 Holden: - Did you recognize those who were at Sydspissen?
10.37 Skoglund: - Yes, but I can not remember faces from Vestfold, Østfold and Telemark AUF, but I remember that I knew several of them. [Mentions several names].
10.38 - And when I swam I remember that Chris asked if someone could take off his pants, and there was one behind me who said "I can do it", but I was closer so I did it. A few of us swam gathered in the water, and I remember one of them said that she was shot too.
10.38 Holden: - Where was she shot?
10.38 Skoglund: - In the ankle or lower leg. When I had swam a bit, I turned around and I saw a person standing on Sydspissen. But it's a bit hard to see on the map here exactly where he stood.
10.39 Holden: - What does this person do?
10.39 Skoglund: - He raises his gun and shoots. I remember that he shot a lot. I still remember that there were people on Sydspissen and they fell. The shots went far and almost cut our heads.
10.39 Holden: - How far out had you come?
10.39 Skoglund: - I'm not sure, between 50 and 100 meters maybe. We had not been swimming for very long. [ Skoglund shows on an aerial photo about how far she had swum.]
10.40 Holden: - Did you see someone being hit?
10.40 Skoglund: - I do not remember.
10.40 Holden: - What happens next?
10.40 Skoglund: - He stands there for a while. I remember a figure running across the island, away from the pier.
10.41 Holden: - When this person was shooting on Sydspissen, did he say something?
10.41 Skoglund: - Yes, he said, "Stop, come back" with a very powerful voice.
10.41 Holden: - Were you thinking about going back?
10.41 Skoglund: - No.
10.41 Holden: - What did you think about the situation there and then?
10.42 Skoglund: - I do not remember. It was very absurd, I did not really understand what was happening. I had never swum from a person with a gun. [While Skoglund was watching Reiulf, she saw red smoke curled up from the island. This matches with that Breivik threw several smoke grenades into the main house on the island in an attempt to force people out of their hiding places.]
10.42 Holden: - I interrupted a little when you told about one that was moving towards the pier, what happened there?
10.43 Skoglund: - I saw a boat coming from the pier, "Reiulf". I and several others panicked, we thought that the boat would take us and that we were going to be shot. We did not know if there were several perpetrators, the only thing we knew was that a person in police uniform was shooting. But then I see this person shooting at the boat. He shoots several shots. Then I start to swim against the current because there was a lot of tide. [Showing on the map where she swam.]
10.43 Holden: - Which leads you to the pier?
10.44 Skoglund: - [Skoglund confirms this.] So I begin to swim, I hear no more shooting, I see that boat drives farther and farther north, from here [show this on a map], so I lose sight of it. Then I remember very well red smoke coming from the barn over there.
10.44 Holden: - You are in the water while watching "Reiulf" getting shot at and you are also in the water when you see the red smoke. What happens next?
10.45 Skoglund: - I had not even come halfway in the water, I was thinking in the water there and then. And when I was at Sydspissen I remember a helicopter above us, I remember very well the sound of the helicopter. We continue to swim and I swam quite close to Astrid, she swam with the phone in her hand to call the police, and we tried repeatedly to tell them where we were, where she lived and that we were swimming over Tyrifjorden. They said they had to hang up, and they hung up quite a few times.
10.46 Holden: - Who said that?
10.46 Skoglund: - Those at the other end of the phone.
10.46 Holden: - Do you know why they hung up?
10.46 Skoglund: - No, I guess they realized what was happening, it was quite many who had called. But we did not think they took us seriously. She swam much faster than me, so I swam alone. And there was some panic, because we had been told that there were some cables around in the water, so I thought that we could not swim around the island. I threw up several times in the water because it was so hard to stay afloat in the cold water. I could not swim on my back, because I sank immediately, and eventually it really stung in my thigh, a very intense pain. In addition, I also have a damaged knee that would not work, I could not move it, so I had to swim with one leg. Then I got a asthma attack in the water, and went under several times. [Both the experts and judges intensely pays attention while Skoglund explains. It is very quiet in the room while the petite girl explains.]
10.48 Holden: - Can you explain about the asthma attack you got in the water?
10.49 Skoglund: - Very heavy breathing. I had swallowed quite a lot of water. I panicked. It's hard to remember to think about swimming when you can't breathe properly.10.49 Holden: - Have you got any thoughts about how long you were in the water?
10.49 Skoglund: - Over an hour.
10.49 Holden: - How did you get out of the water?
10.50 Skoglund: - When I was between 100 and 150 meters from the shore, I see that there is someone who carries a dinghy down to the water which picks up Astrid, and then I was dragged into the boat. But I was so confused, I had gone under water so many times that I do not remember how I was brought up in the boat. I was confused and had very sore ribs. We had to help to pour out the water from the boat while the man rowed. We picked up some more people. I saw that there was a small bay on land, where some were helped. But everyone I knew was gone. When I arrived at the cabin I recognized some from Vestfold [lists names].
10.51 Holden: - The man brought you to his cabin?
10.51 Skoglund: - Yes, there were several in the cabin when we got there. We were asked to strip off our clothes. I was afraid to take off my pants because I did not know how the wound in my thigh would be. But they pulled off my pants. I saw the news on TV and they said there was shooting on Utøya.
10.51 Holden: - Was there still shooting after you came ashore?
10.52 Skoglund: - I do not remember now.
10.52 Holden: - You said in interviews that you heard shots after you came ashore?
10.52 Skoglund: - I think I heard him when I was standing on the terrace to the cabin we came to. I think it was around when he was taken. I had swum quite long. I do not know what time it was, but I remember talking to my mom.
10.53 Holden: - In questioning you scheduled the phone call to 17.28. It was just before you swam?
10.53 Skoglund: - I had already gone into the water, it was shallow. So I called my mom just before I swam.
10.53 Holden: - You sat at the man's home and watched the newscast. What happened later that evening?
10.53 Skoglund: - The people in the cabin had called a taxi or minibus or something. They asked us to go in the bus, which would take us to another place. [Skoglund had inflammation in both her hips after the long and arduous swim. She had to walk on crutches for a month and still has pain in her hips. She also has pain in her thigh, although the shot injury has healed.] And we did not know where we were going, there were several who did not dare to get in and drive. Several were absolutely hysterical. I got in, and we were driven further from Utøya, and up to a place further away, it was one from the Red Cross, I think, who lived there. We were quite a few gathered there, and there kept coming buses with more people. It was very crowded and there were doctors who examined those who had been shot and stuff.
10.55 Holden: - What happened to your leg?
10.55 Skoglund: - It went well, it did not bleed because it was burned and the water was so cold that I was completely blue. It had stopped the blood from the injury in my thigh.
10.55 Holden: - Did you have to do something about this wound later?
10.55 Skoglund: - It was just cleaned, and taken X-rays a little later to check if I had taken out everything from the bullet.
10.56 Holden: - Had you?
10.56 Skoglund: - Yes. There were several from Red Cross that were in the upper floor and we got blankets and quilts and stuff.
10.56 Holden: - What happened to you in the time after this?
10.56 Skoglund: - It has been difficult. It's been up and down really.
10.57 Holden: - If we take your damages first. I see you have amongst other things mentioned a crutch in the interviews.
10.57 Skoglund: - I had an inflammation in both hips and in the knee after I swam, so I could not move or walk much.
10.57 Holden: - So you had a period on crutches, how long did it last?
10.57 Skoglund: - About a month, I think. And I still have pain in my hips now, today, , in the knee and the thigh.
10.58 Holden: - Otherwise, beyond the physical, how has it been for you afterwards?
10.58 Skoglund: - Very varied, up and down, and quite heavy really. A little guilt and stuff like that.
10.58 Holden: - Why do you feel guilty?
10.58 Skoglund: - I was delegation leader of my province, and lost the three youngest in the county.
10.58 Holden: - Have you been able to be at work?
10.59 Skoglund: - Partly. [ She should have gotten into full employment after having gone out of high school, but has been sick and was not able to work so much.]
10.59 Holden: - What have made it a difficult time?
10.59 Skoglund: - That I should testify and was mentioned in the indictment. I learned pretty early.
10.59 Holden: - But now at least you are finished testifying. I have no further questions.
10.59 Skoglund: - That's good.
11.00 Arntzen: - You are almost done, but the defense should be allowed to ask questions if they want.
11.00 Vibeke Hein Bæra: - I have a few questions, then you're done. I just want you to tell us a bit more in detail about your observations of the perpetrator. Did you notice something about the way he appeared?
11.01 Skoglund: - He seemed very calm, and it made people approached him.
11.01 Bæra: - Is it so that he appeared trustworthy since people went to him?
11.01 Skoglund: - In a way, he was wearing a police uniform. But one reacted on the weapon he had, and responded very quickly when he lifted the weapon.
11.02 Bæra: - Did he get some outbreaks?
11.02 Skoglund: - I do not remember if he said anything.
11.02 Bæra: - You told me he shouted something at Sydspissen?
11.02 Skoglund: - He said: Stop, come back. That was the only thing he shouted. Nothing else.
11.02 Bæra: - The last observation, when you see him run across the volleyball court. How did he appear?
11.03 Skoglund: - A little stressing. But I do not know if he was the one running. But there was one person who ran. I heard no cry.
11.03 Bæra: - I have no more questions now.
11.03 Lippestad goes into the other room to hear if the defense that sits together with Breivik have any further questions. There are no further questions from the defense.
11.04 Lawyer Petersen: - Have the events affected your studies?
11.04 Skoglund: - Yes, I was going to apply for study in the fall, but I wanted to work for a year to make money. But the studies are cancelled.
11.04 Petersen: - There are no studies in the fall?
11.04 Skoglund: - No.
11.04 Petersen: - You say that the period has been difficult, it is correct to say very difficult?
11.04 Skoglund: - Yes.
11.05 Petersen: - Do you have anything you want to say to Breivik in short here today?
11.05 Skoglund: - We won and he lost, and Norwegian youth can swim.
11.05 Lawyer Mette Yvonne Larsen: - A little follow-up of what Hein Bæra asked you, about how you perceived Breivik. We will return to the event where you are in the water, watching the shore and looking back. You have said something about that he was calm. But can you say a little more about it, when he shot out against the water and on land, did he say anything this time, or try to say a little more about just how he was.
11.06 Skoglund: - He seemed calm, but he was aggressive on the trigger.
11.06 Larsen: - He was aggressive on the trigger, right. For he shoots both against the water and into the shore. You said in interviews that he took the time to shoot those who were there, right?
11.06 Skoglund: - I can not remember now, but I remember that he was very calm, there were no sudden movements.
11.07 Larsen: - What plan did you think he had, where he shot them, do you have any opinion on that?
11.07 Skoglund: - No.
11.07 [Larsen reads from questioning where the witness has said that it seemed as if Breivik would torture the victims. The witness does not remember this.]
11.07 Holden: - Larsen was talking to you about what you have said to the police, and we have talked about it as well. And I asked you a question earlier if you saw someone been shot. You said that you do not remember, but in the police interrogation you said that you saw many were shot.
11.08 Skoglund: - I saw them fall, now I remember.
11.08 Larsen: - It says you saw blood splashing when they were shot. But as I said earlier there was no one who was hit on Sydspissen the first time. What do you think could be the reason why this is said in the police explanation?
11.08 Skoglund: - I do not know, but it's not something I could have taken from others as I was talking with others when we got to the cabin on the land side.
11.09 Larsen: - We have looked very carefully at this, and as far as we understand, no one was hit the first time Breivik was at Sydspissen.
11.09 Skoglund: - Yes, I'm not sure, but the groaning is burned into my head. I tried to turn around to help him because I thought I could try to help him, but I did not dare, so I turned back and swam. Then I remember no more until we were 20 meters from the shore on the land side, and then I saw a boat, not the one who has been on Utøya, but another one.
11.10 Larsen: - You're thinking of "Reiulf".
11.10 Skoglund: - Yes, and when we got 200 yards away, I saw a black figure and thought that now I would die. I thought that they were on both sides, both the island and the land side, but then I see someone that comes to launch a boat with an outboard motor, but can't manage it. Then there comes another one and he has a red ribbon around him, and then I thought that if it had been an ally he would have shot already. I thought that I would rather drown than be shot. But then they shouted that "You are absolutely brilliant" and then it was just to swim.
11.11 Judge Wenche Elizabeth Arntzen: - Then I think you're done here. We can have one more witness before lunch, if they are ready?
11.11 Holden: - They are not. Witness Hoft arrives 12.30 and the last witness arrives at 13.00. So it is our proposal that we take a break until 12.30.
11.12 The court pauses until 12:30 pm.
11.22 According to defends Odd Ivar Grøn it was okay for Breivik to be led out: - He understands that it can be difficult for people to explain themselves when he is there, and therefore accepted to leave the courtroom. Breivik has not had any specific comments on what has come to light today.
12.24 All the four defenders are standing together in a small ring by their seats and are talking when Breivik comes back into the courtroom.
12.32 Witness Marius Hoft is brought into the courtroom and takes place in the witness box.
12.32 Arntzen: - The negotiations continue.
12.32 Holden: - We've made a change so that it is Marius Hoft to testify.
12.33 Hoft swears the oath. Hoft saw his friend fall into death, and that is among other things what he'll explain about today.
12.35 Holden: - Hoft, you were present at Utøya, so tell us a little about what you experienced. We have agreed that you can start at a time when you and a friend had decided you would go home.
12.35 Hoft: - We had planned to go home because his tent was wet and it was bad weather. We did not come over with the boat, so we got down to the reception by the campground.
12.36 Holden: - Who were you with?
12.36 Hoft: - Andreas.
12.36 Holden: - How was your relationship with him?
12.36 Hoft: - He was my closest friend.
12.36 Holden: - Had you known him long?
12.36 Hoft: - Mm. I had known him for almost two years.
12.37 Holden: - You are thus at the campground and you want to go home.
12.37 Hoft: - We ask if it is possible to take the boat across. Some friends ask us to stay. They kept us on hold for a few minutes. When they had gone, we heard a bang. I stood with my friend. We thought it might be firecrackers or a machine that was broken. Some youths run past us. We did not know if they run for fun, and we stayed behind.
12.38 Holden: - Where were you?
12.38 Hoft: - [Shows on the map where he stood]. Then I saw the person dressed as a policeman. I just saw his upper body. He had a gun and aimed into the ground. I heard another shot. Then he comes down. [Showing where]. The one girl who is close to us, goes to meet him. He fired two shots. She takes a step backwards and she falls to the ground. I think that it is an exercise.
12.39 Holden: - Do you remember who that was?
12.39 Hoft: - No.
12.39 Holden: - Her name was Lejla Selaci.
12.40 The witness asks how old she was. Selaci was 18 years old.
12.40 Hoft: - She fell to the ground and she got a shot in the head. I got more and more the impression that it was real. I think I saw a boy who was just behind her, who was shot behind her.
12.41 Holden confirms that there was a boy behind. [Holden says that Steinar Jessen was shot in the area.]
12.41 Hoft: - Andreas took me by the shoulder and said my name and pulled me back a little. But I stood still, I went maybe two steps backward and got ready to run if something happened. I think I remember that he was charging at me, it was the last thing I saw before I turned and ran. Then I heard shots.
12.42 Holden: - You told about these two who kept you and Andreas back for a few minutes. What do you think would have happened if they had not done that?
12.42 Hoft: - If they hadn't, we would have been down at the main house when he arrived. We had definitely been there. I turned around and I start to run, towards here, there were tents everywhere, and I hear shots. I throw myself behind one tent over there and I wait until I've heard enough shots that I think he needs reloading. I heard two shots, and then I ran into the woods. Andreas had run before me, so I was left alone then, I ran through the woods and I'm pretty sure it was down here [show on map]. I met a group of people, and a leader. I met Andreas again, he asked us to take up the phone and call, I remember thinking what happens, he spoke to me like I was stupid. And I turn around and say to Andreas that it is not safe here with this group. There are too many in one place. We jumped over the fence and behind a rock, I am not sure where. It was an area where many were killed on the trail at least.
12.44 Holden: - We've been hearing about a place where many jumped over the fence?
12.44 Hoft: - Yes, we did and moved down in the area. But a girl fell and got unconscious. We sat behind the rock holding hands. Then we heard shooting above us. I said: it's going to be okay.
12.45 - After a while he appeared on the left side of us. I see that he is aiming into the woods. I said to a girl that "if he turns now, we get shot". I was ready to be shot there. I thought it was a given that someone who was out to kill us would look around. But if he goes ahead and does not see us, we would run in the opposite direction and find a better hiding place. But he looked straight ahead and walked on. Then we estimated, climbed up and got back on the trail. Then I saw three people lying dead on the ground on the trail. We jumped over these three bodies.
12.46 Holden: - Do you know if there were more people than those who were killed there?
12.46 Hoft: - I did not look around, just straight ahead. I wanted to stop to see if they were alive, but we did not have time, because I was afraid that he would come back and shoot us.
12.46 Holden: - Did ten people lay there? [ Holden says it was found ten dead there when the police arrived.]
12.47 Hoft: - It is possible, I didn't look around very much. When I was there, I just looked to my left, and there it were three.
12.47 Holden: - So you run in the opposite direction as Breivik?
12.47 Hoft: - We follow the trail all the way. Andreas ran a little slower than me, I turned around to make sure he came after. We met NN and a friend of his. He asked what happened. I told him what happened. I asked him to find a better place to hide. Andreas climbed down to hide. We realized that it was steep. In my eyes it was next to impossible to climb down there, but we had to take a chance. Rather that than to be shot.
12.48 [Holden shows a picture of the area from the seaside and asks Hoft to point out where they climbed down. The witness and the prosecutor are looking at the map together]
12.49 Hoft: - I think it was here, it was this area here. We climbed down from here, if it is correct now.
12.49 Holden: - We get the impression that you were in about this area.
12.49 Hoft: - I do not remember which side it was. We climbed down, and when we got a couple of meters down I climb to the right. As I climb to the right, I hear a few sounds, and Andreas loses grip and falls. He neither screamed or made any noises when he fell. I screamed before I stifled my scream thinking I should not reveal where we were. I was thinking that he did not survive that. I climb down and see him lying there. I decided to survive because I wanted to see my friends and my family again, so I continue to climb to the side, looking down. [Describes how Andreas' head is gradually disappearing under the water]
12.52 Holden: - How long did you see him moving for after he fell?
12.52 Hoft: - It was not long before he stopped moving. He was unconscious for a while. I was thinking that people have survived worse things. But after a while I realize that it's over.
12.53 Holden: - In the police interview, you said that after about twenty seconds, his body lay still.
12.53 Hoft: - I just remember that once he fell he moved, I heard maybe one sound.
12.53 Holden: - What happened next?
12.54 Hoft: - I stood there and cried for half a minute only, after that I kept it inside. I thought that I won't let it out before I survive, if I survive. The will to survive was strong. I thought of my mother, who does not have internet , and doesn't watch television very much and is not so good at answering the phone. I was thinking that I wish so much that I was there.
12.55 Holden: - We understand that it must have been hard for you. Did you have any other observations?
12.55 Hoft: - He came above me, and shot out toward the water, the boats. He shot several times, but did not hit. With the last shot he managed to scrape a youth, but I do not think it was so serious. I saw only one dead there. It was another boy who was hiding there. There was a shot and his body shook very fast. Then he moved no more. I saw only his leg, so I do not know what happened.
12.56 Holden: - Did you see Breivik at this time?
12.56 Hoft: - He was above me. It was impossible for me to see him. I tried to hide in my black hooded sweater. He behaved very calmly and relaxed the times I saw him on the island.
12.56 Holden: - Did he say anything?
12.57 Hoft: - No, I have not heard him say anything.
12.57 - He did not look angry, happy or tired either. He walked calmly. That is what I believe to remember.
12.57 Holden: - What happens during the evening? You remain long in the mountain wall. Tell about it.
12.58 Hoft: - There are many thoughts. I heard shooting. There was a period where the shooting stopped. Then I thought: "Now finally the police has arrived". Suddenly I heard shooting again. I had really lost all hope, but boats finally arrived. Then I heard a helicopter. I thought. "Something has to happen soon". But there never happened anything.
12.58 Holden: - But eventually something happened?
12.59 Hoft: - Some youths came forward, some were rescued by boats. There was a girl who waved at me, but I shook my head. I could not climb down. Finally I dared to speak because they beneath me talked and acted normal. So I asked if he was taken. One said: "The police say a man has been arrested". So I thought it was over. There were policemen and boats that said it was a helicopter to pick me up, but it never happened. I got no notice, but in the end there was a man in the boat who had spoken to the police, and said that they were on the island and that they had information where I was, and they were coming to help me. So finally the police came, they sit down here and aim at me and ask me to turn around and wave my sweater, then they said they would get a rope. When I managed to get the rope down, I was informed that you must be careful because the rope is not 100 percent sure. I did not know how to attach it, but I got instructions on how to do it.
13.01 Holden: - Do you know what time it is?
13.01 Hoft: - Perhaps before nine o'clock. I was not at the hotel before ten o'clock, I was the last one who came back to the main building before we took the last boat over.
13.01 Holden: - The place you stood on the cliff, can you describe it?
13.02 Hoft: - In the beginning there was very little space. I noticed that I had to do something about it. I took my right foot and had to kick away dirt and rocks and I was very careful, because if a large stone fell out, he could hear me. I was very insecure all the time whether he was around or not, and finally I managed to kick away enough. I got space for both feet in the end. "Maybe I can manage to hold on long enough to be rescued", I thought. And I managed it.
13.03 Holden: - How was the time after?
13.03 Hoft: - I was completely indifferent, when they picked me up, I was told to sit down, but I could not be happy. I did not know if any of my friends were alive, and when I was followed back to the main building, I saw the first girl who was shot in the stomach and the head. And then I came back and I saw two friends and I felt a little more cheerful. I saw them crying, but I could not cry, I had only managed to cry for half a minute at first when Andreas died. I was completely indifferent.
13.04 Holden: - And when you came back to the mainland, how has time been after that?
13.04 Hoft: - I learned that (..) was dead. At the same time, I was surprised that so many of my friends had survived. I found out that I was lucky to have so many friends who had survived. I was told that Andreas had survived and was in the hospital and that his condition was stable. I did not know what to think what was true, and if I should be happy or sad. I had no control over my feelings.
13.05 Holden: - How are you now?
13.05 Hoft: - I'm trying to focus forward, to get into school again, and try not to think too much about what has happened. But there have been difficult times.
13.05 Holden: - Then I say thank you.
13.05 Lippestad: - You were near the defendant on two occasions, at Kjærlighetstien and when you stood at the cliff. When you stood on the lower side of the fence on Kjærlighetsstien. Did you hear him say anything?
13.06 Hoft: - I have never heard him say anything.
13.06 Lippestad: - Did you hear anything?
13.06 Hoft: - Shooting sounds. Scream of youngsters.
13.06 Lawyer: - I wonder one thing, Marius. Have you been at work or school after what happened?
13.07 Hoft: - I tried to start up at school, but it went very badly. Andreas and I have been all over the school. It was too hard to concentrate, so I just had to give up. I'll try again this fall.
13.07 Lawyer: - Have you been able to follow the normal day-night rhythm?
13.07 Hoft: - I'm not going to bed at usual time. It may be because I have turned the clock. [Describes when he goes to bed]. I have no problems with nightmares. When I sleep, I sleep well.
13.08 Coordinating aid laywer Siv Hallgren: - We have received a question yesterday about whether you remember the names of those who was at Kjærlighetsstien?
13.08 Hoft: - I did not see the faces , for they lay with her heads down, but I think I saw NN. Later I learned that she was shot.
13.09 Professional judge Arntzen: - Then you're done here. Thank you. Then we call in Ane Kollen Evenmo.
13.11 Evenmo takes the witness oath.
13.11 Engh: - Could you start by telling what you experienced on Utøya on July 22?
13.12 Evenmo: - We in the Troms delegation had a meeting. We were very scared after the bomb in Oslo. I was also afraid for my family who lived in Oslo. So I called my mom to be sure they were fine. And then I put my phone on charge in a room below the cafè building. We went down to [show on a map where]. When we came back and were eating, we heard that shooting started. I was in the Troms camp, then. We had our food in a large tent there. We thought that it is no fun to mess with this right now. Then Gunnar and Anders came and said we had to stay in the tent and stay calm. Then people started screaming and came running down the hill from the cafè building. Someone is shooting and people are killed, they said. But that can't be happening, I thought. But then someone shouted that we had to run. Some stayed behind in the tent. I felt a responsibility for one of the youngest members of our delegation to run with me. But a person came and pushed me and said: Ane, just run. So I ran, and after running past the campfire place I felt I was hit in the leg. [There was not much blood from her wound, so Evenmo first tried to start swimming. She met many others who tried to swim.] I swam maybe 20 meters, but I was not able to swim because it was so cold. I was afraid of cramp, she says.
13.16 - And I just think that it is softgun balls or something like that. It hurt at the time, but I thought I just had to run. We were many, many people running together, but I can not remember who it was. I saw a thicket behind me. Then I felt my boot. At first I thought it was mud, but then I realized it was blood. I asked two girls to check if there was a hole in the boot. They said that they thought that there was a hole. They asked if I had pain. I had no pain. The hole was in the back, so we checked it was not close to a tendon or something like that. [Showing the map where they ran.] On the way we saw people who were hiding. I just wanted to get away. I thought it was useless to hide. Then you will only be found. [Shows where she ran on the map. She states that she shouts at a friend and saying to him, "I'm shot in the foot. What should I do?"] He said, "Hurry. Strip off your clothes. Then it goes faster to swim. "
13.19 - And then I started to undress, and I thought that a splint or a bullet was going to roll out, but nothing happened, so I undress my denim pants, pulled down my sock and saw that there was a small hole in my ankle, and a thick vein, where it was something in the end. But it did not bleed, so I thought I'll just leave it, and I ran down to the water and tried to swim. I swam out a little. [Shows where] I swam out about 20 yards, but it was so cold.
13.20 Engh: - Were there others who swam?
13.20 Evenmo: - Yes, there were people everywhere, there were a lot from Troms there, who shouted "Ane, you have to swim", but I could not because it was so cold and I get cramps and stuff. There were lots of people on the shore who wondered what to do and stuff like that.
13.20 Engh: - How many?
13.21 Evenmo: - I saw maybe 20 people in the water, and there was quite a few along the edge too. I shouted that "you just have to swim, you just have to swim" because the shots are coming closer. So it was in a way a small argument between me and another boy who was wondering why he should swim when I did not. I said I can not do it, and that he had to swim cause it did not seem as if he was harmed. Then NN comes out of the woods, and I said to him that I had tried to swim and did not know what to do. He said "you run with me", grabbed my hand and started to run. And then NN was there too, and I had to borrow his phone, and then he spoke with a friend.
13.23 - I remember he said, "I can't hear what you're saying because the shooting is so loud". He just had to hang up. Then I realized that the shooting was close.
13.23 Engh: - From the time you say you were little farther up, and started to walk out into the water. Do you hear shots all the time?
13.24 Evenmo: - I heard shots, but some I may have blocked out. I can not remember having heard so many shots through the woods, I was only thinking about running and to get over roots and potholes. I heard some when they were close and when they were not close. [Showing on the map where she was on the island when she ran.] I felt that the shots were very loud and close at the moment. Ottar and NN says that we ran past the volleyball court. But I do not remember that. Then we came to the pier and there were some who tried to start Reiulf, but there was some arguing because they didn't manage to start it. I ran on, and noticed that people had started to row the boat. Then I threw myself into the water and after 10-20 feet they dragged me into the boat. We rowed, but got nowhere, because there was disagreement about what direction we should row. But in the end we decided to row towards where the others swam, for we would pick up them too. While we were out in the water, at least one boy panicked. He would just jump out of the boat, because he thought it was over anyway. Then I threw myself on his legs. People called the police and some called home and there were some who were quiet, while others had panicked. So we rowed. We saw someone that I thought was a police officer. There were some who cried that it was him, him. The killer. I did not understand what they meant. If he wanted to kill, he would have shot me somewhere else than in the foot. Some began to wave.
13.28 Engh: - Who was waving?
13.28 Evenmo: - I think I did it myself. I thought it was the police.
13.28 Engh: - Then I saw an orange flare. With a great slow movement, as if we would not notice it, he aimed the weapon at the boat. We shouted for everyone to lie down. Then he began to shoot. It was very loud sounds of metal against metal. I had a sharp pain in my ears, and there came a great long beep.
13.29 Evenmo: - I said we had to turn around the other way, because it was much better to be shot in the legs than in the head, but we never had time for it. [After he finished shooting at the boat, one who had swum beside all the way came into the boat. The witness shows on the map where they were]. The person on land was so big that one could have recognized him by body build if you had seen the person later. And you could see that he had a big gun.
13.30 Engh: - You see him standing on the shore. Exactly where do you see him?
13.30 Evenmo: - I thought he was here, but I do not know, some say he's out here [Showing on the map]
13.31 Engh: - Do you remember anything more, did he stand upright?
13.31 Evenmo: - Yes, he stood upright, very well upright and was just looking. It was done very calmly, there was no rush.
13.31 Engh: - Did you have any other impression of him?
13.31 Evenmo: - No, I really had no impression, it was just that he was so calm in doing something so cruel.
13.32 Engh: - Have you any idea of how long he fired at the boat?
13.32 Evenmo: - I have no idea, for me it could have been an hour in that moment as I lay on the floor of the boat, it felt so long, but I do not think it was so long, it was only just the moment that lasted so insanely long. And then after we had got that person into the boat, we rowed.
13.33 Engh: - Do you see where the defendant moves afterwards?
13.33 Evenmo: - No, afterwards I just sat down in the boat and did not bother to look up. Eventually there came a boat and it would take us ashore. I thought that it was unnecessary to help us, who were so close anyway, and that one should go and help the others who were still swimming. Some panicked when the police were on the land side and we thought they could shoot us. But eventually we came ashore and then I remember that I was very scared because the police officer on shore was quite similar to the one I had seen on the island, even if it was only from a distance. I shouted to the policeman on the land: "Do not shoot us now". "No, you're safe now, it's okay now", he replied. We went up the road and I was worried, but did not have very much pain. So we met an ambulance man who took a look at my foot. He sent us away to a car, where we sat in the back. Eventually there came a minibus that drove us home to one of the ambulance men. We were then in kind of an apartment on top of a garage. And then I found a shirt that we tied around my foot. I was very worried. When I realized how serious it was at Utøya, I thought that they must take the others that are seriously hurt to hospital first. So I was just trying to sit still. There were many who came in and looked at my foot. Two ambulance people came and said: I think you have to be with us anyway. At first we went to Sundvollen to register, then I was driven to Bærum hospital.
13.37 Engh: - Where were you hit?
13.37 Evenmo: - At the ankle.
13.37 Engh: - What did they do at the hospital?
13.37 Evenmo: - They removed two splints.
13.37 Engh: - Have they got them all out?
13.37 Evenmo: - No, I still have a few left. They are touching the bone.
13.38 Engh: - How has it gone with that injury?
13.38 Evenmo: - It's been okay, but I have had a little pain.
13.38 Engh: - Today then?
13.38 Evenmo: - It hurts if I use it a lot. Then I get pain.
13.38 Engh: - Are you getting treatment?
13.38 Evenmo: - I'm going to on Wednesday.
13.39 Engh: - Before we go a little further on how it is today, I have a question. When you are at the tent camp and you get hit - do you see the defendant at any point of time?
13.39 Evenmo: - No, I never turned around, so I thought it was just a joke and I should not go see those who were joking, lest they would laugh and say afterwards that you were pranked.
13.39 Engh: - So the first time you see him in is in "Reiulf"?
13.39 Evenmo: - Yes.
13.40 Engh: - You said that when you started to run, you spoke to both Anders Kristiansen and Gunnar Linaker. Both were shot dead on Utøya. Anders Kristiansen was among the ten that were found at Kjærlighetsstien, Linaker was shot on the campground and died later in the hospital. Do you remember having seen them any more?
13.40 Evenmo: - No, I do not remember, but there were some who said, "Ane, you have to run", I do not know if it was any of them.
13.40 Engh: - You were also talking about someone called NN and NN.
13.41 Evenmo: - Yes, I ran with NN. And when they cried that "he is shooting and people are killed", I thought it could not be true. I just took hold of him and said "is it true, is it true?", and he said "yes, yes it is true", and that was when I realized that we had to run even if it might just be ... I thought it was an exercise, or something ...
13.41 Engh: - How are you doing?
13.41 Evenmo: - Right now it's okay. I go to school and try to finish school.
13.42 Engh: - Have you been able to go in the second grade this whole year?
13.42 Evenmo: - Yes.
13.42 Engh: - If I ask you how you are today, you say?
13.42 Evenmo: - I'm all right, but some days are heavier than others. It is not as if everything is fine and forgotten. It will never be.
13.42 Larsen: - How did you experience Tarjei Jensen Bech's condition when he came running to you and talked about what happened?
13.43 Evenmo: - He was scared. He was convinced that it had happened. It was only that. I believed him when he said it. There was something about his eyes. So then we just had to run. Only his eyes said so much. He had obviously seen something that said it was not safe there. I was convinced by the way he was, by his eyes.
13.43 The defense has no questions to the 17-year-old girl.
13.44 Arntzen: - Then you're done here. Thank you for attending. We take a break until 14 o'clock before we process the last part of the request for broadcasting.
13.44 The witness is followed out by two judicial officers. Breivik looks at the judges, and not at the witness while she goes out.
13.53 The Press' opinion shall be submitted to the court after the break. Harald Stanghelle acts as common representative of the press in room 250, and is also common head of Editors Association.
14.04 Professional judge Arntzen: - The negotiations continue, and this part of the negotiations we will allow broadcast.
14.04 Representative of the press, Harald Stanghelle, takes place in the witness box.
14.05 Stanghelle: - I am employed in Aftenposten, but am here as a representative of the media group that is impaired. I will not abuse the court's time for a fundamental review of transparency in this matter, I know that the court is aware of that. And I keep that in mind, it is an important decision that the court shall take today. Roughly speaking, I can say that we are talking about broadcasting three different groups of witnesses. In our opinion on the court's earlier decision on broadcasting, that decision provides a good guide to take a stand in this round too. The question here is not of open or closed court but if some witnesses also can be broadcast, it is worth mentioning that one broadcasts that part of the proceedings as the opportunity arises, for example, large parts of the indictment censored with sound. Transfer does not mean that all the information goes straight out. Broadcast happens through the editorial responsibility and commitment to the Code of Ethics. The court has given permission for some police witnesses to be broadcast, it is natural to follow this up by saying yes to the broadcasting of some witnesses who have come. When it comes to group two, there is a group that has one thing in common, that everyone has participated in the public debate, there are people from politics, the media, experts on extremism, but also participants in the debate from the extreme side though. These are people who have no connection to what happened exactly July 22, but explain the defendant's mindset and background of what happened. In line with the transparency bar the court has assumed, I see no reason why these should not be broadcast. The third group is what comes to psychiatry, reports and so. Furthermore, there is no doubt that the greatest public interest, is the sanity issue in this case.
14.09 - In our opinion, it is very important for the understanding of the judgment to be delivered that everything that goes on in this part of the case, all about psychiatry and sanity, can be broadcast. The Court has already accepted some witnesses here to testify in public, if the defendant permits it. Therefore, it is natural and important that other witnesses who will give evidence of psychiatry and sanity are also broadcast. It has very very great public interest. This is a request to the court to allow this to be broadcast. Thank you!
14.11 Arntzen: - We take counsel on this. For the Court it is enough to get informed of the witnesses who have agreed or requested that their explanation is not being broadcast. Then we take a spin on this. For the court it will be good to know which witnesses will find this problematic. Go ahead, prosecutor.
14.12 Prosecutor Svein Holden: - Honourable Court. The prosecutors have objected that one of the police witnesses are broadcast. We can go through the new names. The first new name, the police superintendent NN. It applies to the arrest of Breivik. We think it is reasonable to withhold NN. [One police officer who prosecutors do not want broadcasted during the testimony, is working at the department of special operations in the Oslo police. According to Holden, it will cause problems for him in his future work. The same applies to one of the main interrogators in the police force that Breivik met.]
14.14 Holden also refers to a third witness who does not want to be broadcast. So he goes over to the other three witnesses who agree in broadcasting.
14.15 Holden: - When it comes to child psychiatrist Per Olav Næss, Breivik's mother, who has consented to the abolition of confidentiality, also has to be asked about another thing. A decision can not be made before that is done. As for the witnesses Malt and Torgersen, both witnesses agreed. As the court has agreed to broadcast the four forsenic psychiatric experts, it is natural that these two also are allowed to be broadcast. I have earlier indicated that it may be necessary to incorporate two names on the prosecution's witness list. We're still working on those.
14.17 Judge Arntzen asks the defenders to explain their list.
14.17 Lippestad: - Brief introduction, the defendant's perception is that the whole case should have been broadcast, now that his explanation was not, he says that this should also be the case for other witnesses to prevent a skewed representation. When it comes to police witnesses, we have no remarks. When it comes to experts, we have three written requests that they should not be broadcast. We have not received any further justification, other than that they do not want the testimony to be broadcast. When it comes to medical experts, it's like Stanghelle said that the four appointed experts are to be broadcast, and based on that, the defendant is also under the opinion that other medical personnel can be broadcast, but when it comes to the child psychiatrist he strongly oppose that it can be broadcast. He has not consented to the waiver of confidentiality, and believes it will involve a strong impact on the defendant's policy, and he has not contributed to inspect in child care cases earlier. Breivik himself will make a comment on this, and I ask for him to get permission to do so.
14 Judge Arne Lyng: - I interpret you to mean that the witnesses not mentioned, have they agreed or have they not given any answers?
14 Lippestad: - I can mention those who have agreed [lists the number of witnesses]. They have actively agreed that it is okay. Also the three I mentioned said that it's okay. I have not received any response from the rest of them.
14 Arntzen: - Breivik, you had a comment?
14.29 Breivik: - It's really just a comment. I find it completely unacceptable that my ideological explanation was censored in its entirety ...
14.20 Professional judge Arntzen interrupts him and says the broadcast of this must be stopped before he can continue.
14.20 Breivik: - I find it completely unacceptable that my ideological explanation was completely censored and that the psychiatric expert's explanation is broadcast. This will create an imbalance and it will contribute to portraying me as morbid for those following the case.
14.21 Larsen: - I will briefly comment on these police witnesses who the prosecutors named, we have no objection for them to be broadcast. We support the prosecution's view. Witness No. 139, we have not had the chance to ask them, so I think we can ask them straight away, if it's okay for the court.
14.22 She says they have not had time to ask two of the witnesses, and will ask them now, since they are present in the court room. The two witnesses are the experts on the victims' injuries and mental stress. Their names are Dagfinn Winje and Are Holen.
14.23 Arntzen: - If you wish, you can take a seat in the witness box. It was perhaps a bit sudden?
14.23 The two of them will respond later.
14.24 Larsen: - We believe that the general considerations about how the victims have suffered are key details, they will not come with personal data. We lean in the direction that this should be told.
14.24 [Lippestad confirms that a witness has said that it is okay to broadcast.]
14.24 Arntzen: - Thank you. Then this session is over. The decision will not be presented first thing tomorrow, but in time for the witnesses to arrive the court. The court is adjourned for the day.
14.25 Aid Lawyer Siv Hallgren intervenes and asks administrator Arntzen to say which of tomorrow's witnesses wishes anonymity. The court is informed.
14.25 The court is adjourned .
14.25 Judge Arntzen: - Thanks for today.