Caroline Koa

JL: Okay. So can you give me your full name?

CK: Caroline Lee Koa.

JL: And then I know you talked about it, but where did you where did you grow up?

CK: I grew up in Florida until I was 15. I was born in Japan, but I moved to America when I was just an infant. Like three months old. And then after that, I lived to Florida until I was 15. And then I moved to Japan, and I lived in Japan from the age of fifteen to twenty one. And then I moved to Hawaiʻi.

JL: Okay. So majority, you were kind of moving around from school to school?

CK: Well, the whole time I grew up in Florida, I was at regular schools in my neighborhood, public schools. But when I went to Japan, I basically had to quit school because at that time and like now, all they had was a kind of a fancy international school where diplomats kids went. And I wasn't affiliated or connected to the military at all. So I wasn't able to like access a base, you know, on base military school. So I quit school and I was fifteen.

JL: Okay, and what were you... What you were you born again? I'm sorry.

CK: Fifty-five. 1955.

JL: Okay. So where do you live now?

CK: Kāneʻohe.

JL: Kāneʻohe. And do... How long have you lived there?

CK: In Kāneʻohe about six years.

JL: Okay. Do you like your neighborhood? Like, do you like where you live?

CK: I love where I live. Yes.

JL: Good! Okay. So what were... before COVID-19, what were the primary things that, you know, on a day to day basis, what did you do?

CK: Well, I walked away from the classroom. I was a long term substitute teacher with DOE for many, many for like 15 years. But I left that last year to stay home and take care of my granddaughter, she's a baby. And so our activities prior to COVID were going to a parent participation preschool. We would go to that four days a week. And just pretty much being a grandma to the grand baby. You know and then shopping and all that, you know preparing meals.

JL: Okay. So at the time when COVID started happening, like what were your thoughts on it? Where were you? Like, what were you doing?

CK: I think, cause it kind of... You know back, it was actually back in January when we first started hearing about it in China. And... I remember thinking, wow, this is kind of like what happened with SARS, which is another virus from several years ago. And, but to be honest, I really thought that if there was going to be a pandemic, that I relied upon government and health officials. I kind of really to be honest, I had that attitude of, you know, here in Hawaii, we're kind of isolated. And so we're safe.

JL: Yeah. Yeah. Anywhere else you had lived? I know. I mean, you were pretty young. But have you have you experienced any kind of emergency or natural disaster? You know pandemic anywhere?

CK: Well, not a pandemic, but hurricanes quite frequently in Florida.

JL: Yeah, yeah.

CK: So, yeah, like our house was destroyed one time from one hurricane. That kind of thing, and our house burned down once. It wasn't a natural disaster, but it affected us.

JL: Yeah. Do you think from those you know, from those experiences, you kind of dealt with COVID-19 a little bit better? Or...

CK: Yes. Yes. Yes, I think so, because I... I guess I'm a resilient person. And, you know, have had stuff happen. And just, you know, when you lived to be this old, you pick yourself up and just keep going.

JL: Exactly. Okay, So at the time or even now, what most concerns you about COVID-19?

CK: The schools reopening. It's ridiculous. I mean, I'm like furious about this.

JL: Yeah. What, have you been...

CK: If people...

JL: Oh, sorry, go ahead.

CK: No, if people haven't been in a classroom teaching, they have no idea. They really don't, and I get it that the economy needs schools to open, but if the school, if we were able to... If we had to close schools before because of this pandemic and our numbers were not that much different than they are now, why would we open them now just because, you know, the federal government is urging us to.

JL: Yeah.

CK: And we're making it like the kids don't have to wear masks inside. It's totally up to the teacher to be the bad guy.

JL: Yeah. What do you think from, from like the DOE, so you think that they're doing everything wrong at this point?

CK: Yeah. Yeah. Because they were the ones who were saying three feet is fine.

JL: Yeah. Yeah.

CK: And because my daughter's a teacher and we have a small child, you know, a toddler at home, and my husband and I have health issues and we're, you know, like in our 60s, we don't want her bringing this home. And she's going to be face to face with 60 kids every day.

JL: So she's planning on going back to school when school starts or working when school starts.

CK: She doesn't have a choice because we are financially dependent upon her.

JL: Okay, yeah. So... [inaudible] she doesn't really have a choice of either even... they all have to go back?

CK: Yeah.

JL: From what grade does she teach? Kindergarten you said?

CK: No, middle school.

JL: Middle school. Okay, so... So they're all planning on going back then?

CK: Yes. At the school she teaches at, is not doing a staggered, like you know, half the students one day. No, they're all coming back.

JL: Oh, wow.

CK: Yeah.

JL: Ok...

CK: Because virtual is not even an option. Yeah. Total virtual is not an option.

JL: Wow. OK. So then how do you think that's going to affect... I mean, it's going to affect everything. How do you think that's going to affect, you know, just the way you kind of have to live when she comes home every day?

CK: Yes. We've already thought of a staging area for her to have to take off her clothes, for her to shower outside. We're going to try to, you know, make it as pleasant as possible for her to be able to take a shower outside. There's no privacy, of course, but, you know, maybe change into her bathing suit and then bathe outside, wash her hair. All of that, and then come inside because she's still breastfeeding baby. So that's, you know, such close contact. You know, it's, and it's the baby's too young to understand that, No, you cannot come to Mommy right now. So she can't even see her mom till the mom has basically decontaminated herself. Yeah. Yeah. So... So the reason I'm going on and on about this is because it's kind of like consuming my every waking moment and even my dreams I'm starting to like getting all stressed and, you know, anxious about this whole thing.

JL: Yeah. I mean, it's really important, though, because... Yeah. So, So going to like your grandchild. How do you think that's gonna be different for her in the future.

CK: Well she's only a year old. So in terms of how it's going to be different for her...

JL: Or even her schooling.

CK: Oh, because now I'm not taking her to preschool anymore. She has regressed socially. She's, she's timid and she's afraid of staying... you know strangers. I mean, at this age, it is not uncommon for babies to you know, be wary of strangers and to be afraid of new people. But she was just getting to that place where she was kind of like interested in what other kids were doing and wanting to go and look and see what they were doing and play with them. But now she just, you know, leaves her head in our neck and or our chest and doesn't even want to look at strangers.

JL: So even, like on a day to day basis, you don't really take her out like anywhere.

CK: Oh, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I see what you're saying. No. The yard, the front yard and that's it.

JL: Yeah, yeah. Okay. What do... so what concerns you the most about COVID-19 on like the, you know, employment in general and economy, and the economy?

CK: Well, it's affecting us because my husband works in the travel industry, and he's no longer able to work because there are no bookings at his company where he works.

JL: Oh, okay. So right now, he's on unemployment, he's unemployed?

CK: No, he actually just qualified for employment because he was... the company got that pandemic relief loan program so they were, they were paying like a minimal salary to their workers. So that, to qualify for the program, that's one of the things. It's like a paycheck protection so everybody could get paid. So then when that happened, the amount he was being paid was actually more, a little bit more than what he would have received through unemployment, so he didn't qualify.

JL: Oh, okay.

CK: Yeah. So that kind of... the timing was bad because he had this federal payment of six hundred dollars a week that would have come. Along with unemployment, if you would have qualified for employment.

JL: Okay, yeah. And he just got it though?

CK: He just, he just got laid off.

JL: Oh, okay. Oh, just got laid off.

CK: Yeah, yeah. So he won't be able to qualify for that six hundred dollars. Yeah.

JL: So right now you're just living off of your daughter's.

CK: Yes. And I receive unemployment.

JL: Okay, okay.

CK: And we have social security also.

JL: Oh, okay. Good. So, now for a day to day basis, how do you think COVID-19 affects, you know, everything that you do? What do you usually do like now?

CK: Well, we just stay home. We just stay home, and we have, like, everything delivered pretty much. The mom will go and do like a Target run, but it's like, you know, the one where you could do a pick up.

JL: Pick up, yeah.

CK: Yeah.

JL: Okay. So basically, you haven't even really gone out since you know, like February?

CK: No. We tried, we tried for Father's Day. We decided to go to a restaurant, but we were so disappointed because the restaurant was not practicing social distancing and people didn't have on masks even though they were supposed to. My granddaughter's just going to join us for a little while, but if she interferes then she's going to leave.

JL: Okay. So, yeah. So basically, you're just staying home right now?

CK: Yes.

JL: Okay.

CK: Pretty much just staying home.

JL: And how, you know, how are you managing that just staying home? Are you used to going out or...

CK: Yes. I'm used to going out. And so it kinda... I mean, one thing is good, I think we're eating a lot healthier because we're preparing our meals and we're not doing takeout that much. So that's, that's a real big difference for us. And so we've had time to look at recipes, try to incorporate you know, healthier options.

JL: Yeah.

CK: So in that respect, it's, there's been a plus side.

JL: Okay, yeah. So with... do you have other family in Hawai'i?

CK: I do. They live in Waimānalo, my other daughter and my two teenage grandkids. So yesterday was my birthday, and so normally we would always go out you know, to celebrate, but we weren't able to do that. So everything was like virtual, and you know, they dropped off an ice cream cake to us, which was really awesome, but it wasn't the same.

JL: Yeah. Yeah. So you're kind of used to... are you used to, are you getting used to Zoom better or like you know, talking to people on the phone and stuff?

CK: Yes. I talk to my friends you know, other teachers, I talk to my friends and I talk to my other... you know, my other daughter and her kids on the phone. We Zoom, we FaceTime that kind of thing... not Zoom we FaceTime.

JL: Have there been any challenges that you've faced, like during this time?

CK: Just not being able to go shopping on my own has really, it's really been hard because there's no system or no, no way to get everything done the way that, you know, I would like to shop. So yeah, it's like even with the delivery, like instacart or whatever these different delivery companies are, it's like, if they, if the item is not in stock, then they don't purchase it. They don't, you know, it's not like they're gonna go try to look for alternatives and suggest them.

JL: Yeah. Yeah.

CK: Whereas if I went myself, I go okay, so that brand is out, but I could maybe, you know, substitute for this. So it's that kind of challenge.

JL: Yeah. Yeah. So, what have you and your family been doing for, like, you know, recreational activities, exercise, stuff like that? What... have you been doing anything?

CK: I have haven't been. My husband and daughter, they've been doing some online workouts.

JL: Okay, okay.

CK: I've gone to the beach so that, that has been something that's been awesome. Getting to the beach and swimming, that's been really great.

JL: Okay. So, like in your community, like your neighbors and stuff, I mean, how have they been responding or like even the people around you?

CK: Oh, okay. Well, we moved to this neighborhood the end of December, so we didn't really get a chance to meet any of our neighbors. But, we live in almost like a duplex situation where the home owner... we're renting, the home owner lives in the house right behind us. And so, he's not really like our landlord, he has a property management company dealing with all of the you know, rent and that kind of stuff. So in order, I guess, to keep it, you know, more of a professional basis. So when we first moved in it was just like, you know, greetings hello, whatnot, but then because of COVID, we kind of gotten to be a little bit closer to them where we kind of share goodies back and forth. Like if I have a little bit too much of something, then I share. When he goes to the store, his wife goes to the store, they often will bring us something like you know, a rotisserie chicken from Costco or you know, something like that. So they've been really, really good to us.

JL: Good. So, like, let's see how do I say this... Have you seen people around you kind of change, change their opinions or like disregard this whole thing in general, this whole pandemic in general.

CK: Oh, okay. So my son-in-law, who's married to my daughter who lives in Waimānalo, he is very much a... I don't know if I want to say he's a conspiracy theorist, but he doesn't really think it's that bad. And so, like, they don't wear masks and stuff and they just really believe it's important to be responsible for boosting your own immune system. So that's pretty much where he's at. Yeah.

JL: Yeah. So when, when we were in, like, you know, lockdown and everything like that, how, how was it when you were with your whole family like that?

CK: When I was with my husband, my daughter and the baby, because that's just the four of us that live here. It was good. I mean, I think that my daughter, you know, the baby's mom, it was hardest for her because she's more used to going out and doing things. She's still, you know, early 20s or no mid 20s, so it was harder on her. For me, I just, I didn't realize it was going to last that long, but then before you knew it, I kind of got used to it. So now it's... even if I like see people, I don't really feel like I want to go up and hug them anymore.

JL: Yeah.

CK: I'm kind of like feeling not quite... you know, even after all of this is over, if it ever is, I'm not going to probably feel as affectionate physically towards other people.

JL: And did you have any like underlying health issues?

CK: Yeah, I do have diabetes, I do have high cholesterol, and I do have high blood pressure.

JL: Okay, so yeah. So what do you think... you know how do you think that affects your, you know, COVID-19 affects your physical health or even your mental health?

CK: Right, because I'm concerned to the point of actually being like anxious or having an anxiety about like, oh my God, if I caught this, then it might actually be really bad. You know, I might not bounce back from it, and I might bring it into the house and affect everybody, you know, infect everybody.

JL: Yeah.

CK: So, it's really scary from that point of view, because it's not just myself that I'm worried about.

JL: Yeah. And how do you feel about the, you know, the government opening all this stuff back up kind of early, and then people getting sick again?

CK: I feel for sure there's going to be another wave. And I feel that... I feel that he did too little too late, Ige the governor, and so we really should have had a better plan worked out, and a faster more decisive plan to not let people in. And I know, it like, because it's a federal thing that people can move from state to state, but there's so many ways to get around it. You know, like with a quarantine, you know, something like that to make it not as attractive to want to come here. But as we've seen in the news, the quarantine is really not foolproof. In fact, it's kind of almost become a fun challenge for some people to get around it.

JL: Yeah.

CK: So I don't think, I don't think that reopening this soon is a good thing, because I think that we're going to have to maybe do another shutdown if the numbers get bigger with kids going back to school and taking the virus back home and affecting their parents, their grandparents.

JL: Yeah. Have you known anybody that's gotten sick?

CK: No, I haven't.

JL: So going into like the news, do you watch the news about the coverage?

CK: Yes, yes.

JL: Do you have specific news sources or you kind of just watch?

CK: CNN and then the local news stations.

JL: Yeah. Do you kind of, let's see... Do you think your news sources have changed since the pandemic or its remained the same?

CK: Yes, because I used to read the Star Advertiser newspaper online, but it's, the reporting has just been so sketch. So now I lean more towards Civil Beat.

JL: Okay. Do you think the news is covering something too much or there's something that they're not covering enough?

CK: I think we need to have more information about... I mean, I get privacy laws and everything, but there should be better ways for us to know where are the clusters, where are the things that we need to be avoiding? Where are the places we need to be avoiding?

JL: So we kind of talked about the government. Do you have any other thoughts on local leaders responding to the crisis?

CK: Well, it's like they can't be on the... they're not on the same page. And it's like day to day the mayor, you know the city and county and then the state, they're like fighting with each other. And then you've got like Josh Green, the lieutenant governor, who is amazing, but yet at every opportunity, he's trying to, you know, take a dig at Caldwell, because, you know, I mean, Caldwell is going to be his opponent in the next gubernatorial election. So it's you know, it's like you can't listen to any of them.

JL: Yeah, exactly. What do you think the positive and negative aspects of living on the island are during this time?

CK: People here are so willing to help each other out. From what I've heard from people that aren't in America as well as on social media, but it does not seem that communities are rising up quite as much, you know, not to the level of how we are here in Hawai'i. Like with the food drive or food distribution, people wearing masks. I know we have some people here in the islands that don't want to wear masks because, you know, it impedes their freedom. But from what I've seen... since we have, you know, we have kind of a large Asian population here, too, and, people that come from Asia, they're really used to wearing masks. I mean, like Japan, everybody wears masks anyway. You have a cold, you wear masks because you don't want to give it to others. So there's that kind of, you know, if you're used to it or not. And I just think that people here really try to get along with their neighbors because you are eventually... you're either related to somebody that you don't know, but you, you know, that is out there or you're going to know somebody that is related to them.

JL: Yeah.

CK: Unless you, you know, run in a circle that, you know, people from America or like military or something that you might not. But people that have lived here all their lives, they know each other.

JL: Yeah, yeah. What do you think that the U.S. sorry... that Hawai'i has been doing right that the rest of the United States hasn't been implementing?

CK: The quarantine. The travel quarantine.

JL: Yeah.

CK: Yeah. It's not perfect, but it is you know, I think that's helped.

JL: Yeah. So you would agree with like the restrictions on the travel policy and stuff like that?

CK: Yes. Yes, yes. Even though it's affecting us financially, I still think it's, it's a good thing.

JL: Okay. Have you kind of become more aware of, you know, the differences with Hawai'i and the rest of the U.S., just in any aspect from the pandemic?

CK: I think that the reason our numbers, our number of cases is lower compared to a lot of places in America, is that we did have a shut down pretty early on. It could have been earlier, but, you know, fairly early on.

JL: Yeah, yeah. Have you noticed any like changes with like the 'āina or the ocean or our resources in Hawai'i?

CK: Yes, yes, yes, yes. The turtles, the monk seals, you know, they're, they're able to come onto the land and do things that they haven't been able to do for a long, long time. And, the water quality is just amazing. And then Waimānalo, I don't know about other places, but in Waimānalo, there's all this limu, the seaweed that you know washes up. And for the first time in my life, I've seen signs of lipoa limu for sale.

JL: Yeah.

CK: That's not something I've ever seen from someone's house, you know, you have to go like to a special fish market or something.

JL: Because there is so much coming up on the shore.

CK: Yes, yes. And I've see just like agriculturally, so many people have started gardens and there's been a lot of trading and like bartering produce, and people like starting cottage industries, you selling... making and selling food items and posting that. Which I think I mean, they always did, but this is like way more now. I don't know if people have more time to do it, or they're just realizing that, you know, hey, maybe this is something we can do. You know, to maybe start an agricultural base in Hawai'i.

JL: Wow. Okay, so getting into, like, the future. How do you think this experience or the pandemic you know, transforms the way you think about your family and friends in the community?

CK: I feel even more connected to my... the greater community, not just the Kāne'ohe community. But, you know, like pretty much the whole island in a micro way. And, so I think future wise, I can just think of the windward side only. This whole island, how can this whole island move forward.

JL: Yeah.

CK: Whereas before, I kinda was more focused on just the windward side.

JL: Oh, okay. So do you really see yourself... I know there's still travel restrictions, but once that's lifted, do you see yourself you know, going anywhere?

CK: Yes, Hawai'i Island, definitely. We've already had to cancel our travel plans two times, so hopefully three times, the third time will be the lucky one.

JL: Do you have family there, too, or just vacation?

CK: No, just a vacation. My daughter went to college there and she's very vested in Mauna Kea, she lived up there for a while. So just to go and visit and, and aloha the Mauna.

JL: Yeah. Okay. And then getting into the last question, so knowing what you know now, what do you think you know, you should keep in mind for the future. It could be in any aspect, you know, your family, your friends?

CK: Know that this, too, will pass.

JL: Yeah. Do you think that there's going to be some kind of other pandemic in the future?

CK: No I don't.

JL: So how long do you think that this one will go on for? Do you think it's gonna be a while, cause then there's going to be more cases, or do you think we're almost done with it?

CK: We're almost done. That might be... and I'm not basing that on any scientific knowledge, it's just maybe wishful thinking.

JL: Yeah, yeah. What do you hope for... like what do you hope for, for like next year specifically?

CK: That we could all be back to our lives, how they were before in terms of being able to go out. I'm hoping that we don't go back to such a huge reliance on tourism as Hawai'i's number one economy. That is what I'm really hoping on that there'll be a change from this.

JL: Yeah, exactly. Okay, well, we are done I think.

CK: Oh okay.

JL: Yeah, I got through all the questions that I needed to. Anything else that you want to talk about?

CK: I guess they just wanted to clarify. I think there will be a spike in cases after things reopen, but then it should go back down again, you know, but I don't think it's going to be like a huge, like 300, 400 cases, because if it is, then they need to shut down again.

JL: Oh, yes. Right. Okay, well thank you!

CK: Oh, Jasmyne, thank you!