Key

White=Commentary

Orange=Interviewee

Yellow=Julian

Green=Parents

Introduction

Before you can comprehend the extent to which this experience changed me, you have to understand where I was at the time of the interviews. It was late October, on a run-of-the-mill online school day. I had been waiting for this day for quite a while, but as prepared as I thought I was, I was nowhere near emotionally ready. As a white, privileged, middle class male, I had never been in much contact with the truly disadvantaged, aside from some volunteer work, and yet I was about to spend the next hour and a half talking to four people who were in wildly divergent situations. They either had their living situations stripped away, or never had them to begin with. And there I was, sitting at a desk, uncertain about what the next hour would bring, and about to speak with people who are more or less invisible in the area where I live, in Western Massachusetts. A recipe for disaster, right?

Here’s an obvious statement, but one worth digging into: transient people are overlooked. Simply put, they are not treated with the same kind of respect, kindness, and care as others in our society. For a long time I’ve been interested in how mainstream America can erase the inherent humanity of an entire cross section of its citizens. And the absolutely unfair notion that, despite a person’s best efforts, their humanity could be questioned by the general public. Maybe people who are experiencing homelessness are viewed as dangerous or a threat because they are the physical embodiment of that randomness. The fear that anyone could be struck down and become homeless. Become what they view as dangerous and drug-ridden.

When I first met Richard, Andrew, Shaela, and Alexi, I had no idea how much their stories would impact me. As the bright screen lit up with the waiting room, I was greeted with the smiling face of Christy, a woman who helped me organize interviews of her guests at the Friends of the Homeless shelter in Springfield, Massachusetts. She was in a blindingly fluorescent office with a small desk and chair. We chatted for a moment and the first guest entered the call.

Before I get into the interviews I’d like to give you some background. Why did I choose to do this project? I've asked myself that question countless times since that day in October. I don't have an answer for you, but I can at least try to tell you where I was at the time of interviewing. When I was young, I was terrified by homeless people, or at least those who outwardly appeared to be living on the street. The messages I received as a child from the media and society in general were clear: be wary. A clear and dramatic example is the 1984 film “C.H.U.D.”– a disturbing acronym for Cannibalistic Humanoid Underground Dwellers. The movie, which became a cult classic and spawned a sequel, featured homeless people turned humanoid monsters literally ascending from the depths of the sewers to slaughter well-to-do innocents. Specific memories have remained with me since childhood. Averting my eyes nervously while passing a young red-haired man holding a soggy cardboard sign. Crossing the street at the sight of an older homeless woman having a conversation with a non-existent companion. Pleading with my parents not to give money to a rugged man standing in the median of an intersection near my house because I was frightened. I think about that last one often, especially in the context of this project. How my own fear stopped me from possibly helping another human being, regardless of what he would have used the money for. Then, as many of us do, I entered my rebellious phase and began to be more critical of the many derogatory depictions of the homeless I had witnessed. “Why should I be afraid of them? They aren't inherently dangerous. They are people too.” That was the start of my interest.

About a year ago I saw a young man in the streets of London, during a family trip, clearly homeless and mentally ill. He was fully engrossed in his own reality. I find myself thinking of that man often. Who was he? Who had he wanted to be when he was young? Who had he been and what circumstances had brought him to where he was? Who would he become? So, I suppose that is the answer to the question of why I chose to interview 4 members of the transient population: a need to learn about people in circumstances so incredibly different from my own.

Or maybe, just maybe, I want to tell you stories; to be an avenue for incredible people to express their lives and emotions to a population that doesn’t often even notice they exist. To help relay their enduring humanity despite the constant barrage of abuse they undergo. They are in such unique and terrifying situations, of which the general population is willfully ignorant. They deserve to be more than invisible. So that’s where I was coming from. A cocktail of fear of those less fortunate than I, an intense curiosity, and a genuine attempt at human interaction and growth on my part. One thing I knew for sure, as I sat at that white peeling desk, hunched over a bright screen in a dark room- this was going to change my perspective forever.

Key

White=Commentary

Orange=Interviewee

Yellow=Julian

Green=Parents

Interview Number 1: Richard

Richard, a young man of color, born on the streets, kicked out of his family to fend for himself at 16, a year younger than me at the time of recording this, walked into the frame. I somewhat nervously greeted him.

Hi!

Hi, how're you doing?

I’m good. How’re you?

My mind was going a mile a minute. I felt as if I was a bystander to my own interview. I wanted desperately to make a good impression, to not come across as superior or exploitative and to have a genuine conversation. But I didn’t feel in control of my own words. So I simply let the conversion flow. After a moment of greetings and explanations, I asked Richard about his childhood.

Uh my childhood was, it was alright, you know uh, I can’t complain. You know my mom always tried to make sure she could do the best that she can for us. You know no mom is a superhero, but, you know even though I definitely felt like she could have done better, you know, at the end of the day, I have to realize now that I'm older, she did the best that she can. So I can’t really put a lot of blame on her. She definitely could have done a lot more, but she definitely did, you know, she did, she did her job. I’m still alive, you know. So she definitely did her job.

It was such a unique experience to talk with someone, not much older than me, in such a radically different situation. As I said, Richard was born on the streets and was kicked out of his family unit to fend for himself by age of 16. He is now 18.

Even in my nervous state I felt myself subtly leaning forward to catch every word. Over the course of these interviews, this feeling only strengthened. But another feeling, or rather realization, strengthened over the course of the interview as well. I started to realize how incredibly lucky I am. To be born into relative wealth, a safe home, rather than what Richard received. Just take a moment to reflect on what that must be like. You are put into this world with a huge weight strapped onto your leg, and through your life, instead of enjoying your freedom, you attempt to chip away at it. While I enjoy the naïve comfort of my childhood, Richard faced the cold, hard reality of a world of disadvantage and poverty.

I continued to ask him questions, namely, what frightens him. He told me of a time when he was robbed while sleeping. I’ll play that now.

Uh one of the scariest things that happened to me… Uh definitely uh when I woke up, and there were people, cause I had clothes, I had a book bag full of clothes, and basically when I woke up, um there were people, there were like three people and they were taking my stuff and tryna rob me basically. And I was basically, and I don't really even wanna get too deep into that story, but that was basically, basically what happened to me, I got robbed. That was definitely a really traumatic experience for me. I wasn't really prepared for anything like that. I knew the streets weren’t no game, but I didn't think that, like, I'm homeless so I was pretty sure, who would really want another, who would really want a homeless person's stuff. You know what I mean? But it was definitely that. You know I wasn’t expecting that. Yeah definitely opened my eyes up, just like, you know, the world doesn't care about you even if you are homeless, it doesn't matter, they'll take from you.

I have no idea how that could have felt. I have no idea what a life like his would be like. We are so incredibly different, even though I live in the same state and am the same age. I've never considered myself to have won the “cosmic lottery”. I was born into an upper middle class family in an average part of the U.S. But now, as I sit in a warm room, with two people who love me in the next room, typing away on an expensive computer, receiving my education, I realized that I did win the lottery. I was born lucky. Richard was not.

A struggle for me was to try to be a good interviewer. To connect with each person and to both level and highlight the power imbalance between us. Because there is one. There's no way of getting around it, and I don’t want to ignore that. But he’s human and he deserves respect, at the very least. It’s such a delicate balance and if I fail I risk everything.

Something I was curious about Richard was what an average day was like for him. I tried to get a sense of what such a radically estranged life to mine was like on the most simplistic level.

A normal day for me is... hmm that’s actually a really good question. A normal day for me honestly is just me, just, pretty much just living without any, you know, problems like I was living before. Like before, I’m living and you know I can't eat, I can't sleep, you know, simple things the human body needs to do. Eat, sleep, shower, can't do certain things. A normal day for me honestly is waking up in the morning and being able to brush my teeth, take a shower, head out, and just have a nice, normal day. Being able to eat three meals a day, live normally. That's basically a normal day for me.

Before these interviews I had an odd split in my ideas. I obviously had sympathy, some fear, and empathy, for the situation these people found themselves in. But I also had a romanticized view of homelessness. There is this movie, Into the Wild, where a young man travels the country with little money, surviving on his wits and the kindness of others, or even the song, ‘Me and You and a Dog Named Boo’. I thought there was some kind of nobility living outside the system. Some sort of freedom. Maybe there is, I don't know. But I now realize that the world isn’t like that. The cold hard reality is that living off the grid is hard, scary, unreliable, and often not a choice.

Here’s Richard again;

The hardest part of being homeless really is being alone. Because, you know, you face a lot of challenges, you know what I mean? Of course there's way other problems: not being able to shower, not being able to eat, but definitely being alone, because like when you're alone you have so much that goes on inside your head, you don't know if you still wanna continue with your life. You know I've had plenty of moments like that, definitely being alone, you know what I mean? Even just talking to yourself, you just get through and at least feel like you're not alone, ‘cause if you don’t, you’ll definitely end up going crazy, you know. Definitely being alone.

Personally, I get lost in the minutiae of life and I forget that I have the luxury of taking survival for granted. I don't need to worry about food, running water, or shelter. Something that truly struck me while I was talking to him, is that people legitimately live like he does. It may seem obvious or trivial to say, but I too often forget that these people I either see or learn about were just that: People. People who are just as emotionally complex as you or I. They have emotions and feel pain to the same extent as anyone. That truly disturbs me in a way, that I failed to realize, or at least internalize.

Richard and I continued to talk and he mentioned that

Everybody’s one paycheck away from being out here, you know.

I love that line. It might not be strictly true, but he’s still absolutely right in its essence. Some are fortunate enough to have emergency funds that they can allow themselves to fall back on. The average American, however, has no emergency fund. They live paycheck to paycheck and when there's a disruption in that cycle, there’s no safety net to catch their fall. Nearly two-thirds of Americans, 63%, say they have been living paycheck to paycheck since the Covid-19 pandemic hit the U.S. and just and just 39% of Americans would be able to cover an unexpected $1,000 expense, according to a new report from CBS. There is this assumption that members of the transient population are homeless from their poor choices, and put themselves where they are, and that’s quite frankly that's presumptuous. In many cases they are people down on their luck, put in an awful situation out of their control. I have no shame admitting that I still hold onto some ideas that I'd rather not about the homeless. I still might cross the street or walk faster if I see a homeless person talking to themselves. I don’t stop and imagine what it would be like to be in their situation, the pain they're experiencing. I never stop to imagine what it must be like to be homeless, because I almost don’t view them on my level, as disturbing as that sounds. I hate that. Why do I feel the need to do that?

Later on, I asked Richard to describe what homelessness is like.

Uh, homelessness is definitely like, it’s like a wall. It's like, it feels like you're in a place you're trapped in where you know you can't get out because you know, to be honest, like this is just the reality. Especially when you don't really have anything to your name, like there’s people, like there's people out who don't have social security cards, so they're stuck in that situation until they get that. And even if it's like imma, imma grind and stuff to get that, it's like, you don't have any money. So how are you gonna get that? You know what I mean?

I truly hope that I, nor anyone I know, is forced to endure what Richard has. The loneliness, the fear, the pain, and to be ignored by the rest of society. Those who could help you, even in some small way, don’t or won’t because “you did it to yourself”. That makes my blood boil.

Now I think I've talked enough and I'd like to turn it over to two people who have worked with the homeless for many years over the course of their lives. They are married, and in fact met working at a homeless shelter. One is a psychologist with a Ph.D. and both, yes, happen to be my parents. They are far more qualified to give their insights than me, that’s why I’ve mostly been focusing on my perception and feelings surrounding the events, rather than speculating how Richard felt. So here they are.

Well to what I was saying, it was always really sad when we’d see young people come into the shelter. Not that, I’m sure it was harder for older people. Because, you know, they're not as healthy, their bodies, and it was because they'd go out and walk all day. Walk, what else are you gonna do if you're homeless, right? I mean, you've got a program, you've got a bed or a cot, and they're feeding you and giving you clothing, but what else can you do? If you're too old, you can't go find a job, and generally people won't hire homeless people whether you're young or old. But it was really tragic when young people would come in, 18, 20, and you'd see their lives and you'd think to yourself ‘how does somebody that young end up this far off?’ and their stories were like this guy’s. You know, they didn’t have family support, maybe they didn't have families or maybe their families were poor, or they inherited being, like mom said, the cycle of poverty and they didn't have anyone to turn to. I never realized until hearing that young man earlier that it means so much to them, to talk to somebody who actually wants to hear what they have to say or cares. It felt like he was saying that when he said ‘Being alone…’ It's like ‘Somebody cares about me’. Someone cares about your existence. About your life. I think one of the things homeless people struggle with the most is that they feel invisible. It’s like they're on the streets and no one looks at them or makes eye contact with them, and I think that they kind of absorb it and they don't even feel completely human. And It’s just very little possibility or hope they feel. And then even when they're in a program, it's such a pattern that they're in. They feel uncomfortable in a secure situation, they feel uncomfortable in an apartment. They've lived on the streets so long that, you know, they end up sabotaging the opportunity that's been handed to them. It's what they do. It becomes their life. It's hard to change when you’re so afraid, because so many things have happened to you. To suddenly, you know you’ve got, at least you've got a stable shelter or place to live, some food. It's like he said, it's scary to think you don't know where you're going to go to sleep, or to get out of the weather. And also as a child that's grown up in a situation like that, you don't think about all the skills you learn for your parents. Not skills like how to do laundry or balance a checkbook, but just normal skills about like floss your teeth or brush your hair, or when somebody says hello, you say hello back. When you come from a dysfunctional family, probably a family where there's some substance abuse no one teaches you that. Not that substance use is always the cause of homelessness, but it usually comes to play somewhere in there. You know, you just don't get the basic building blocks or the guidance you need and if it's long enough, it's very hard to change that cycle.

At the end of my meeting with Richard I was emotionally drained and quite disturbed. I felt as if I needed to think long and hard about my values and perspective. I had no idea what was coming.

Key

White=Commentary

Orange=Interviewee

Yellow=Julian

Green=Parents

Interview Number 2: Andrew

For my second interview I was a bit more confident, but a fair amount more disturbed than I anticipated I would be. I failed to realize that hearing people talk about their pain and suffering would affect me as much as it did. I have rarely experienced something so intense and draining as listening to these stories. I felt unsafe and exposed, even if I wasn’t sharing anything about myself. The reality of the situations they were in, was crashing down on me, but I had made a commitment and needed to continue. So I pushed aside my feelings and started up the interview.

Good! I’m Julian, I just wanted to talk to a couple of homeless folks about what their experience is like and what the struggles are in today's pandemic and what their lives have been like. Does that sound ok?

Mhm.

Yeah so First of all, what's your name?

Andrew

Alright Andrew, and how's your day going so far?

After chatting for a while about the constraints of COVID 19, a topic I'm sure all of us can relate to, I asked Andrew about how he became homeless.

How did you become homeless? I know you were working at Walmart and what happened?

Yeah, before I became homeless, um I was working at a gas station, before I lost my job at Walmart, I was at a gas station, and then I got arrested and I spent 3 and a half years in jail and because of my ex-wife, and then I got divorced, and then when I got out of jail I had nothing. No place to live, nowhere. So I became homeless.

And what's that been like for you? Like how can you describe it? For someone like me who's never even ---

Homeless--- I mean I’ve been, this is my third time ever being homeless in my lifetime. It's, at first you get here, you feel like, to me, to me, my feeling how I feel, I’m feel like I'm low, I'm dirty. To me, I lost everything, and kind of scared when you first get here. Here it’s like, you share a bathroom, you sleep next to somebody, you gotta watch your stuff. It's hard, you know what I mean, if you're not used to it. Kind of like the things you'd usually do in your own place, kind of like do the opposite, you kind of like carry stuff where you go, pretty much.

Andrew's experience, it seems, had been both very different from Richard’s, due to his circumstances and shockingly similar, emotionally. Transient people lose their homes and livelihoods in many ways, or even are born without them. But one thing remains constant. They are humans, living, often alone, afraid, insecure and on the streets, with no one to care for them. Paige Dearth, an author, wrote that “the worst poverty isn’t about not having enough money to survive. Real poverty is when there is no one in the world who loves you. When there is no other human to make you feel like you matter. As if you aren’t worth the air you breathe. Poverty of love is the worst thing that you can be deprived of.”

Andrew continued to talk about what he saw to be misconceptions about the homeless.

Most people when they think, they see the homeless they think they are alcoholics or druggies, um pretty much they don't really know, they can't sit up there and think they are all alcoholics and druggies. They think they mostly think all the homeless people are alcoholics or druggies. Some people, something happened in their life, they came out of jail, a storm happened in their life and destroyed everything. That’s my theory, from the people I’ve talked to, Never judge a book by its cover. You never know what a person is.

Absolutely.

This person could be the coolest person in the world. I used to drink back in the days, I'm 46 now, I'm older now. As I get older, it doesn't think in my mind “Oh I guess I want a drink” I have a daughter, I have a son, I have a stepson. Those are my priorities before anything else, like to take care of. So that's what I'd say, never judge a book by its cover. Cause a person could be, you don’t know who I am. You can’t tell me, “Hey he's an alcoholic”. You don't know.

In an article in the National Coalition for the Homeless, they write, “A common stereotype of the homeless population is that they are all alcoholics or drug abusers. The truth is that a high percentage of homeless people do struggle with substance abuse, but addictions should be viewed as illnesses and require a great deal of treatment, counseling, and support to overcome. Substance abuse is both a cause and a result of homelessness, often arising after people lose their housing.”

This is yet another example of the media influencing public opinion of the transient community and pushing the stereotype that, “The homeless put themselves where they are and are just lazy”. Not all people without homes are addicts or alcoholics, and even if they are, these are diseases, not signs of weakness. These are real people, with real stories, backgrounds, and values. If they do struggle with substances, it is just that, a struggle. Homelessness has nothing to do with laziness and everything to do with pain and bad luck.

I chatted with Andrew about his music taste and I learned that he enjoys drawing in coloring books. I was beginning to let myself relax more and enjoy the experience. As we were talking, I asked Andrew what he’d say to those who look down upon him.

Like that, I'd say you can come and see what we go through every day, and see how we, how we struggle. We don’t get a golden spoon in our mouth. I mean, Most of us are trying not or best not to be homeless. I wasn't born to be homeless. Something happened. I’m facing it. I’m facing what I have to do, I’m working for a better place for myself, a better myself so I won't be homeless.

This makes complete sense. It must be a struggle to get back to a “normal” life and it must be incredibly hard and brave to even decide to continue on this earth in the face of such a painful and daunting task.

Andrew is such a genuine, nice person. He had kind eyes and a calming presence. I felt I had succeeded more than with Richard in both finding out about his life and connecting with him. What a strange balance to find. To pry into someone's life while also connecting with them on a personal level. I tried to be respectful and kind and to find an avenue for him to speak his mind. Once again, here are my parents with their comments:

He seems sort of like, if you could say there's a typical homelessness. He has sort of lived um at the cusp of homelessness, worked at Walmart and, if I recall, that's his goal, to get back there. Walmart doesn't pay a huge amount so he's probably one of the vulnerable people that homelessness ends up encompassing. He’s on the edge of surviving and then he has some sort of conflict/ situation with his wife, and he ends up in jail with nothing to fall back on. I don't remember him, saying much about his family. But you know, a lot of homeless people don't talk about their family because a lot of their families can’t or don't want to help them, for whatever reason. Maybe it's legit. They may have been abusers or at other times the families may try to help. But you know, he has a really good attitude. He sounds a little bit institutionalized probably from his time in prison, but maybe that'll help him. Because he's got a goal to get his own place and get a job and keeping that kind of upbeat attitude is a really challenge I’m sure when you’re homeless. It seems like people really like him and he's got that going for him. That was a really hopeful interview. I felt like he sounded like someone who would work really hard to get out of that situation and who would take full advantage of programs and it makes me think about how important programs like that are in giving people opportunities and supporting that. And he's just embracing that as much as he can. Obviously he has a real relationship there with the people at the shelter and for someone like that, because of all that, there is a little bit more chance that he can move forward. Plus, even though he's been homeless 3, and he’s been in jail, it sounds like he has family and the ability to make relationships, which offers him the opportunity to connect more with people and maybe get a job, but it's hard, very hard. I liked him a lot.

Through Richard’s calming and optimistic attitude I had been lulled into a sense of security. Don’t get me wrong, I was incredibly tired and weary, but I fully did not expect what was to come next. Trigger warning: this next interview mentions suicide and rape.

Key

White=Commentary

Orange=Interviewee

Yellow=Julian

Green=Parents

Interview Number 3: Shaela

Out of the four people I talked to, by far the most emotional experience was with Shaela. Shaela had an abusive upbringing. She was raped several times and neglected. She lost her children when she became homeless and has battled with addiction for quite some time now. Her honesty and grief were sobering. I was wholly unprepared for that.

Well my life has been bad, you know. I've been homeless for almost 14 years you know. I lost my kids. You know, I lost everything. I tried to die, you know. I tried killing myself a few times, you know. I cut myself just to get the anxiety out, you know. Like, I hear voices in my head and, you know, I just wanna get out of here.

Shaela caught me off guard, quite honestly, with her raw pain and emotion. For me, a sheltered 17 year old, it was surreal. It was as if I was talking to a character out of a movie. A tragic figure relegated to tragic fantasies. I had no idea how to begin to approach talking to her.

Yeah. It's hard, you know? You have family, and it's like you don't have them. You know? It's stressing me out, you know. I have 6 boys. I don't have communication with them. Only maybe with one or two, you know. One of my kids, I don’t even know where he’s at. You know, I tried Facebook. I don't know how to look for him. I went to court, to the courthouse to see if they could help me. They didn't. They said they couldn't help me because they didn't have an address. You know I've gone through a lot. You know, It's just painful.

Sure. More than anyone could ever imagine it sounds like...

Shaela was truly in a desperate situation. I suppose part of the reason this was stunning, is how little power Shaela had to change her situation. There are millions of people in similar situations all over the globe, but I was meeting someone, a real person, who had lost their children and was at quite possibly the lowest point a human could find themselves at. I’m shaking now even reading this.

I would like to have my own place, you know, and get low income or something so I could pay for it. I don't ask for much, you know. I just need to, you know, to do better for my life, for myself, for my kids. I’m sorry. (she is crying)

What would you say makes you the happiest?

I'm not exactly sure why I chose to ask this question here. Maybe nervousness, or maybe a subconscious need to change to a lighter topic. Regardless, I regret it.

Seeing my kids.

Yeah. Sounds like you miss them a lot.

Seeing my kids. Yeah, I do.

What would you say is your biggest fear?

To die without seeing my kids.

Mhm

I miss them so much.

I’m so sorry. It sounds so awful.

I don’t know- My family won't see me, you know,

The zoom call breaks up here.

-they won't let me see my kids They won’t let me see them.

It sounds like you miss them terribly.

The absolute terror of her situation is what gets me the most. The gnawing fear and constant state of insecurity. And I felt powerless to help her.

When I lost my kids I couldn't pay the rent. I was jumping from house to house (unintelligible),

The zoom call breaks up again. It’s hard to hear what she’s saying, but you can get the gist of it.

I went to the cemetery at 1 o'clock in the morning, just to be clean, to stay clean (unintelligible) Scary. So scary out there. so scary.

Yeah...

The Zoom call cut out at that point and I was left in stunned silence. I was feeling very emotional, scared, and disturbed. I suppose I should have expected the emotional impact of interviewing people in those terrible situations. But I did not. Here’s me: one hand clutching the recorder, the other in a tight fist, talking to the recorder while I waited to reconnect. The silences may seem long in this clip, but I’ve actually shorted them by a substantial amount.

Sounds like you’ve been through more than anyone can imagine. The internet cut off… This is making me cry a little bit… Jesus… (Long pause) My initial thoughts are that I feel very privileged and stupid. Uh, I I think a lot of us need a reality check and realize how much we have, and how idiotic a lot of us are. It's connecting again.

I was so scared and angry at myself at this point. Angry for not doing all I could to help her, angry that I expected anything different from talking to people experiencing homelessness, and angry because of how sheltered I am and I didn’t realize it sooner. I still don’t know what to do with this knowledge. In the past I’ve said things like, “I know I’m lucky !”, but really, I didn’t understand. I truly did not. The absolute pain I’ve avoided because of where I was born is unfathomable. That’s not to say that luck is always the cause of homelessness. People don’t become homeless at random, safety nets fall out from under them or they are born into communities with insufficient opportunities to create a secure financial environment. Regardless, the point remains that who you are does not dictate whether you become homeless. It’s largely out of your control.

Regardless, Shaela clearly didn’t dislike me or find me offensive, and that definitely invigorated me on some level. I felt so much I still can't express it even now. I just can’t imagine the level of pain she’s been through. Shaela and my perceptions of pain are so radically different as a result of our experiences that it terrifies and haunts me still. It was truly horrifying, the amount of anguish she was in. She’s lost so much. More than ever felt tangible to me. I asked her a few more questions before I ended the interview.

My Early life? I dropped out of school and um when I made it to the twelfth grade, you know, due to my mother. My mother got divorced, you know, and everything went down. I got raped a couple times, but she never cared. She didn't hear it. I ended up using drugs, you know, I take methadone right now. I've been in the methadone clinic since I was 21. I'm 45 now, but I'm doing better than I was. I'm not using no more. I smoke pot, but other than that, I stopped using heroin.

You've been through so much it sounds like. I can't , like, wow. And you’re, I mean you're still here-that's so impressive.

Yeah. Yeah. I wanna be strong

You are strong, it sounds like. Really strong.

Thank you.

Of course. I really hope you get to see your kids again.

Me too.

Yeah. Thank you so much for talking to me. I really appreciate it.

No problem, if you ever come around Springfield, I would love to meet you.

I would love to meet you too. We wouldn't have to get disconnected.

Yeah hahaha. Oh wow.

Thank you so much.

You're welcome. Have a great day.

You too!

God bless you.

God bless you too

God bless you haha. Thank you. Let me get Christy, so she can do this thing. Thank you, Julian.

Of course! Thank you.

Much love sweetheart, bye bye.

Bye. She's so incredible.

It’s hard for me to even begin to know what to write for this. I suppose I should have expected an interview like that. One filled with true heartbreak and a distraught and broken person. I just hope she is able to get help. That's all.

Before I talked to my parents about this interview, they shared a look and both compared Shaela to my late grandmother on my father’s side. Here they are once more;

A lot of women of a certain generation, I think, well she's obviously twenty years younger than my mother, but they end up , they come from a typical background and they get involved in drugs and have children and they get taken advantage of and end up, like my mother. If it weren’t for us she would have also been homeless a number of times. She was heavily addicted to alcohol, but she had a family to fall back on. She had six children, just like this woman. But this woman's children are young, so they can't help her. You how easily people can fall into homelessness. She sounds like my mother. A really nice person. I think it was really good for her to talk to you. It sounds like she really liked and appreciated you. But, you know, drugs, and people living on the edge, they get involved in drugs and their lives just fall apart. And women are abused so frequently. What did she say? She was raped twice. I'm sure it was more than that.

Mhm I mean I agree with everything that Papa said but also, from the point of view of addictions and um as a psychologist, I can't help but notice her tone of voice and the way that she speaks, she still sounds like she's using. And that's because of the long term impact the drugs have had on her brain. And so she can’t function as well. She's very sad about her life, but she also doesn't take any responsibility for it. Um and I don't say that in a judgmental way. I say that in a factual way, because that's part of what keeps her where she is. She feels like life has done things to her, and it has, it has to be clear, but she also doesn't feel a sense of agency and that's hard because that’s part of what's kept her in that position. And some of that is that this impacted her, her brain has been damaged. She sounds a bit like what they call a dry drunk, someone who's no longer using, but sounds like they're using in how they think and talk. And, the use has also impacted her cognitively in a permanent way.

By this time I was truly exhausted and disturbed. What had I signed myself up for? I hadn't expected the helplessness and emotions I had felt, but it wasn’t over yet.

Key

White=Commentary

Orange=Interviewee

Yellow=Julian

Green=Parents

Interview Number 4: Alexi

While talking to Alexi I was simultaneously still thinking about Shaela and listening to what he had to say. I desperately wanted to lie face down on my bed and think about the deeply heartbreaking and eye opening experience I had undergone, but I pressed on.

Hola Julian!

Hi!

How you doing?

Alexi is an extremely pleasant and curious person. He was immediately kind to me and even without prompting, he was very open.

How's your day been?

How am I feeling? Well I don't know if she told you, but I got like schizoaffective disorder, which maybe came from my substance abuse. It's more like a drug induced psychosis, so I have my days when I'm up and I'm down. Like doctors wanna call it bipolar, but I'm thinking as human beings, we all have our up and down days.

Definitely, yeah

So, today I'm kind of down. I'm alright, I mean I suffer because of my situation, I mean I’m homelessness, it sucks.

Yeah

(Talking to staff) Ok so, besides that I’ve been doing good. I suffer a lot of homelessness. And drug addiction has cost me my family because they've all pushed me to the side. I'm not the kid who my family loved and they probably still had, just in a different way of life, a different way of living.. I mean people look at me like I'm just a loser, a bum, so…

Once again, Alexi’s story is both very similar and different from the other people I talked to. Throughout, no one set of circumstances has been the same. Richard, Andrew, Shaela, and Alexi all had radically different childhoods and how they found themselves suffering from homelessness is also very different. What remains unanimous is the fear and pain caused by their state of homelessness.

Alexi, a man suffering from severe mental illness and drug addiction, is in incredible pain and is forced to fear for his life on a daily basis. Homelessness, from what I have heard, is crushing, lonely, and almost unbearable.

Here Alexi asked me a couple questions and we chatted about interviewing. He mentioned that he would give me

100% honesty

And

As much information as I can give you.

This really reinvigorated me and I dedicated myself to having a conversion with this incredibly interesting man.

My childhood, my childhood was really uh, my environment, where I lived in was bad because, just well my family had to do in order for them to survive. Also the children in my house, they worked a lot. I was raised by my grandparents. They umm to work like um a tobacco farm. I grew up poor. In poverty and stuff. It was back in the 70’s and 80’s. I'm 44 years old. So they did what they had to do to survive and I had friends, but I kept a lot to myself, you know, I think a lot to myself, but when I was around my friends, I was really happy.

Alexi, like the other people I talked to, was born into poverty. Alexi once again asked me about my project, and I answered truthfully. He’s incredibly kind and curious. Next I ask him about his routine.

A day in my life is, it's not too great, I'm a homeless addict, I'm a heroin addict, I got caught up in the heroin epidemic, the opioid epidemic. So I wake up, brush my teeth, stay here, um have breakfast, go about my day, do whatever I can do to get just high, so I can, so I can cope with life. It helps me cope, even though in a way, it's bringing me down, it helps me cope. It's bad, it's kind of like me destroying myself. But I'm coping, I'm coping.

As I said previously, Alexi was very open about his illnesses. He also seemed very aware that his addiction was destroying him.

Yeah. I'm also schizophrenic so if you hear me talking by myself, that's just me talking to god.

Yeah no problem. I actually have delusions too. I have OCD, so I get it.

Obsessive compulsive disorder?

It’s true, I have suffered from OCD. But believe me when I say, I fully did not expect to relay that information in these interviews. I suppose when you hear someone share so much about themselves, you begin to want to give back. It’s natural for a conversation to be give and take. And despite this being an interview, a bit of that slipped in here. I'm glad it did.

It's not as bad as it used to be. It used to be really bad for a while. So I get where you're coming from.

It's kind of personal, are you medicated?

Yeah, I am

Ok. Yeah, I'm medicated myself. I take Thorazine, for the, it's an antipsychotic, and I take Trazodone for sleep.

Yeah. You have trouble sleeping?

I really didn't and then I became dependent on this pill, so I tell myself why am I gonna take a pill that I don't need, when I sleep fine, now I'm dependent on this pill, you know.

I think another reason I chose to share more parts of myself with Alexi, was that it made me feel less like I was interviewing him, and more like it was a guided conversation. I wanted so desperately for Alexi to feel respected and human. He’s experienced more of the opposite of that, than any of us can imagine. My dog can be heard in this next clip, so I apologize for that.

I wanna go back to college, so in a year, I'm trying to get out of here. I don't know what's next. Hold on a sec… Next Question.

Alright. Lets see… What is a misconception about the homeless, do you think?

Misconception... The way they look at us?

Yeah, exactly

Umm… probably, I don't know. I can't think for others, but I think they probably think we're garbage or just like trashy people. Some people wanna move forward and they just don't wanna do nothing. They just expect things to come to them. In life you gotta do footwork, so a misconception is that we're just trash. When I see other people, I feel like I'm just trash before them, in front of them. Honestly, I can't speak for others. Another misconception is that we're all just drug addicts. Alright so were like um...

So I've seen in the movie where they look at homeless people like they were the scum of the earth.

I think Alexi hit on something really pertinent here. In the media, homelessness is incredibly skewed. I talked earlier about Into the Wild, or even the tramp from Lady and the Tramp, movies that glorify being on your own with little money. Well, there's another side to the spectrum. Movies often portray the homeless in the way that Alexi said: “the scum of the earth'', and separate from “normal people''. films featuring homeless characters rely on flashback sequences to provide a neat and tidy explanation for the character’s current situation. This lends itself to an emotional distance, affording the viewer the luxury of being able to think, “Well, that could never happen to me.” . It provides a sort of safety. Stereotypes abound in these films, such as Jack Nicholson’s Francis in 1987’s Ironweed and the junkie couple in 2014’s Shelter. This, I believe, only adds to the stigma and taboo of these invisible and disrespected people. Imagine being in a terrible situation only to be spat on by your fellow humans in both the media you consume and in every day interactions.

I continued to ask Alexi questions about himself, namely what the hardest part about being himself was.

What's the hardest part of that? That I'm still caught up in my childlike behaviors, you know. As much of a grown adult I am, I still think childish ways and act childish, it puts dopamine dopamine in my brain so I'll be happy.

Do you wish you weren't that way?

Did I wish I was what?

You weren't that way? Like would you change yourself if you could?

I wouldn't change it for the world. I mean at times when you’re around certain people you like have to be a totally different person. As long as my peers around me, I can put a smile on my face, that makes me happy. Makes my higher power happy too. See, you just smiled, there you go.

Something I found especially impressive about Alexi, was his ability, not only to reflect on his mental illness, but himself as a person in general. He came across as genuinely insightful.

As someone who has suffered from delusions as well, I was curious as to what his delusions manifested as.

What are your, if you don't mind me asking, what do your lies say?

My lies? Uh um, right now there's been a lot of lies goin’ in my head, talking about one of my children is not mine. So now, my child is being raised by a cousin of mine, alright. ‘Cause his mother gave away parental rights. I was in a sit- I was in prison, and the lie, the voice in my head told me “It's not your son, it's not your son, it's not your son.” So now I'm afraid. I text my cousin all this crazy stuff until, oh no, I'm telling them to get a paternity test and everything. That's a lie, and just a bunch of stuff, which I wish I could just block. I wish it would all go away.

I wish there was a switch that you could turn off, for me at least.

Yeah. But it is not always like that, it's not always like that. Some days you have good days. What else do my, they don't really force me to do nothing. One time I got in trouble. My voice in my head told me to swing at a police officer, so I did. That ended up with me being whooped by the police and going to jail for a long time. So I lost that battle there.

After a bit more talk about delusions, I moved the conversation back to Alexi and his story.

Did I ask you how you became homeless?

Well I had an apartment, I was doing really well, I was paying my rent. I had furniture, food, everything. And one night, it was like four in the morning, I was supposed to be sleeping, I think. I was unmedicated, because at times I'm not too good at taking my meds. So I came up with something, a plan, to break into my… I have three baby mothers, you know, so I’d break into her house. There's a lot of money in there, and umm, so I went along with that lie. I ended up getting caught, ‘cause I stole somebody's vehicle to get there from the gas station, and um, I ended up getting arrested and I lost my apartment. So, see that one bad choice that led me to 4 and a half years of homelessness, the days go by how like long you've been homeless. This situation, you wanna talk about homeless, with income, well my income, there's not so much help you can get. You know, unless you save and then for rent, Its like it's like $1000 dollars a month. I get close to $1000 a month, and rent for efficiency, is like 850 bucks, the property owners, real estate company or whatever, they want you to have 2 to 3 times the rent as your income, or you don't qualify for nothing, unless you get a government subsidy apartment.

From talking to people, I've realized that anyone can be in that situation. Anyone can get there.

Yes. so I'm thinking a lot of people work and work these little minimum wage jobs like they get minimum wage, just to have a roof over their head and a little bit of food,

Yeah totally.

so I'm not the only one.

The rest of the interview is Alexi asking me about myself, so I’ll skip to goodbyes.

Whenever you need me, you just ask Christy for Alexi and we’ll get back together, so I hope you do good, I hope you ace it

Thank you man, I really appreciate it.

Yeah I'm really excited. I love education. That's what went wrong in my life. I dropped out.

Thank you. That means so much to me!

You're welcome, man.

You're an awesome guy.

You all set?

I wonder whether the reason Alexi asked me about myself was kindness and interest or a more deep seated loneliness and a need to connect and converse with someone. I can understand wanting to have a conversation rather than an interview. I won’t conjecture about how he felt too much because truly only he can know those details. But I will say that homelessness, from what I’ve heard, sounds devastatingly lonely.

For one last time, here are my parents and their reflections:

Um yeah like papa said it’s real variety in homelessness, the causes of homelessness and what keeps them in homelessness. And for this fourth interview, I guess I almost think about it like a Venn diagram, with the intersection between severe mental illness and drugs and environment and genetics. And um, you know, this person is probably in the best place they can be, in terms of needing really good structure and support and getting medicine, and making sure they take their medicine. I thought it was really interesting and kind of typical, the way he kind of moved in and out of lucidity and making sense. At times he made a lot of sense and really followed some logic and um sounded like a coherent person and other times totally, you couldn't understand the reasoning and it kind of went off into a tangent. I don’t know if he was just delusional or just tangential thinking.

Um well he's homeless and, probably like a lot of people mom and I worked with, he is living on the fringe and had mental illness affect their life. Profoundly. And often one incident changes everything, they gets arrested and don't have a lot of money, and they don't support and ends up losing their place and in a homeless shelter. We heard that story so many times, where people just lose their supports and end up with nothing. But like a lot of people, like most homeless people, aside from his situation, he's just a regular guy. He was expressing interests and he was being encouraging, he totally related to the fact that you shared a similar experience and while it wasn't always lucid, it was clear what a , what a good person he was. And that's what people don't always understand about the homeless, they're just people who are in bad situations. But for a few thousand dollars, they could be the person living next door to you.

There are about 18,500 homeless people in Massachusetts on any given day alone, and over 1.6 billion in the world, each with their own unique story, goals, and emotions. They range from being born into homelessness, falling into it abruptly, others more slowly, and everywhere in between. If you come away with anything, let it be that they are humans, as complex, emotional and vulnerable as you or I.

If you stayed with me through this: Thank you. I hope you got something out of it. I’d also like to thank, from the bottom of my heart, Christy, Richard, Andrew, Shaela, and Alexi. It was amazing to get to know each and every one of you. This was quite the disturbing, beautiful and frustrating journey.

Before I go, I’d like to share one more thing with you. Here is my initial, upset, and challenged reaction to the interviews.

Ok, so my initial reaction, I guess is just it freaked me out a lot, but it was really beautiful to hear those people’s stories. I loved getting to know them and I just hope I was respectful, that's all I wanted.

*Me and You and a Dog Named Boo plays

Key

White=Commentary

Orange=Interviewee

Yellow=Julian

Green=Parents

Conclusion

That was me, six months ago, but after a while to reflect and process my time spent with each person who agreed to be interviewed, I've come away with this: none of what I learned and experienced matters unless I act on my thoughts. This recognition is useless unless it leads to action. That's my goal, to not only have come away with a new perspective, but to act. To embody my respect and (at least partial) understanding of the pain of this section of the human race. So please, if you've come away with similar realizations to me, join me in volunteering, donating, and helping this part of the population. If you'd like, you're welcome to contact me and I'm happy to give you recommendations of where to donate and volunteer, as well as the contact information of several organizations to learn more. I've said it before and I'll say it again. We all deserve to be more than invisible. We all deserve love and compassion, especially those who are struggling in such painful ways. Thank you all for your time.

Goodbye and good luck.

Thank you to each and every person who helped me on this journey. I couldn't have done it without you. And thank you for listening.

Key

White=Commentary

Orange=Interviewee

Yellow=Julian

Green=Parents

The following is completely unedited, save for the removal of a last name for privacy. Thank you.

Hi!

Hi how’re you doing?

I’m good. How’re you?

I’m doing good, how're you doing?

Um, pretty well. I just, so, I wanted to ask you a couple questions or we could just talk about how your day’s going. I really want this to be--

Oh yeah sure!

Like… what’s your life like? Day to day, y’know?

Yeah...yeah

Um… so how’s it going today?

Todays going good, you know, um, I had to handle a little bit of business to make sure I was good, but so far today was definitely good.

Great! Good to hear that...Um

Thank you man

Yeah...so...um...what’s Covid living like? That must be really stressful.

You said what, I’m sorry.

What’s Covid living like, like living with the pandemic? That must be really stressful.

Oh yeah definitely. It's very stressful. Very. very very stressful. Yeah

Yeah. So, what was your childhood like?

My childhood was, it was alright, you know uh, I can’t complain. You know my mom always tried to make sure she could do the best that she can for us. You know no mom is a superhero, but, you know even though I definitely felt like she could have done better, you know, at the end of the day, I have to realize as I get older, she did the best that she can. So I can’t really put a lot of blame on her. She definitely could have done a lot more, but she definitely did, you know, she did her job. I’m still alive, you know. So she definitely did her job.

Yeah. Are you still---how did you become homeless? If you’re okay with---You never have to answer any of these questions---

I don’t have a problem with it, you know, I’m pretty open about it.

I appreciate that

Yeah, basically, you know, as a child, I’ve always really been homeless, you know, weather that was with my family, or me, really, yeah I've always really been homeless, uh, when I was a child, I was homeless with my family, and, basically, when I became 18, you know, I had to basically do it, um, on my own. Not even really 18, I was around 15-16 mater fact. I had to sign myself up for high school and everything, so, yeah I got kicked out when I was like 16, I had to sign myself up for high school, and really just do it myself, you know what I mean?

Yeah

So basically that’s how I got out here. Parents I guess just got tired of it, had to do, had to go out here on my own, you know, survive.

Yeah, that sounds so hard. I can’t even imagine.

Yeah man, definitely. You know, a long journey.

Yeah, seriously. What’s, uh, is there a regular day in your life? Like, you know a routine sort of-

Um like what do you mean by that question?

Like, what's a normal day like for you?

A normal day for me is… hmm that’s actually a really good question. A normal day for me honestly is just me, just, pretty much just living without any, you know, problems like I was living before, I am living and I can't eat, I can't sleep, you know, simple things the human body needs to do. Sleep, shower, can't do certain things. I mean honestly waking up in the morning and being able to brush my teeth, take a shower, head out, and just have a nice, normal day. Being able to eat three meals a day, live normally. That's basically a normal day for me.

What makes you the happiest?

Hmm… What makes me the happiest… honestly, just, honestly what makes me the happiest is just waking up every morning and having a place to like, you know what I mean? Just waking up and knowing that I'm not outside, basically. Yeah, definitely.

Yeah

When I wake up I feel really good knowing I'm not outside anymore, you know. Definitely.

And what would you say is the hardest part of being homeless?

The hardest part of being homeless really is being alone, because, you know, you face a lot of challenges, you know what I mean, of course there's, there's other problems, not being able to shower, not being able to eat, but definitely being alone, because when you're alone you have o much that goes on inside your head, you don't know if you still wanna continue with your life, you know I've had plenty of moments like that, definitely being alone, you know what I mean? Even just talking to yourself you just get through and at least feel like you're not alone, cause if you don’t you’ll definitely end up going crazy. Definitely being alone.

What would you say is a misconception about the homeless? What do people think about you that you really wish they wouldn’t or that isn’t true, because personally like, I’ve seen a lot of, and I think everyone's a part of this, looking down on the homeless, and I think that’s pretty awful.

Misconceptions… definitely people thinking they're better than you. Basically probably just thinking you're just lazy and worthless and thinking you don't want nothing for your life that you want, that you chose your life to be like this, a lot of people don't even realize this. You don't know why some people on the streets think about it. I've been on the streets since I was 16, I’m 18 now, you know what I mean? It wasn't my choice, And I’m always trying to work to get myself off the streets, but, especially when I was actually on the streets, but definitely that's definitely the biggest thing people thinking “Oh he chose to be that way”. Sometimes a lot of people don't choose to be homeless. A lot of people just live out on the streets, you know.

I'm sure they'd be in the same situation, if they were…

Exactly. Everybody's one paycheck away from being out here, you know.

Where do you see yourself in a year? Like what’s your future plans?

Uhh.. In a year, I definitely see myself doing big things. I've always had really big goals, but in a year definitely getting started on being some type of lawyer or something, law enforcement lawyer or something like that. Definitely.

Well I hope you get there. I can definitely see you being a lawyer. 100%.

Thanks man.

Of course. So, in a couple words, this is kind of a hard question, how would you describe being homeless?

Umm.. How would I describe it? Like the way it feels or in general?

The way it feels.

Uhh. homelessness is definitely like. It’s like a wall. It's like you're in a place you're trapped in where you know you can't get out because you know to be honest it's like the reality. Especially when you don't really have anything to your name, like there's people, like there's people who don't have social security cars so they're stuck in that situation until they get that, and even if it's like imma grind to get that, its like you don't have any money, so how are you gonna get that, you know what I mean? So it honestly just feels like-----Thinking they're better than you for being homeless.

What would you say is your biggest fear, like in general?

My biggest fear? I think definitely social- i think definitely I’ve been out there, my biggest fear is definitely being back out there on the streets. Cause there's no telling what could happen to you there's so many crazy people out there, especially when you're young people try to take advantage of you. So being back out on the streets.

Sounds really scary, like even, even, this is nothing compared to what you've been through, but like, even walking, in New York by myself, that's very scary.

Yeah definitely. I can't image what it's like

Yeah definitely man. It’s very scary because there's just so many people outside. You got all types of people that just love doing weird stuff outside, you know what i mean, and I was just blessed to really honestly have something major happen to me, things have happened to me, but nothing major, that scarred me like, for life, out there, you know what I mean. Which I think god for everyday, cause, I could have died out there.

Do you mind sharing any of those stories, like what were the scary things that happened to you?

Uhh one of the scariest things that happened to me… Uhh definitely uhh when I woke up, and there were people, cause I had clothes, I had a book bag full of clothes, and when I woke up, um there were people, there were like three people and they were taking my stuff and tryna rob me basically. And I was basically, and I don't really even wanna get too deep into that story, but threats basically that's basically what happened to me, I got robbed that was definitely a really traumatic experience for me, I wasn't really prepared for anything like that, I knew the streets were dangerous, But I didn't think that like, I'm homeless so I was pretty sure, Who would really want another, who would really want a homeless person's stuff, you know what I mean, but it was definitely that. You know I wasn’t expecting that.

That sounds so scary.

Yeah definitely opened my eyes up, just like, you know the world doesn't care about you even if you are homeless they'll take from you.

I can’t even imagine… Would you say you feel safe in your life today? Not being on the streets.

Do I feel safe now? Uhh I feel safer, I’m not gonna say 100% safe, but I feel safer, Being out on the streets, Being out on the streets you're exposed to everything 24/7 you know. When you're on the streets you're in places where nobody would even know if something happened to you. You know what I mean. It's like nobody was getting to him, nobody knew he was over there.

That's true yeah. What would you say to those people who look down on the homeless.

What I'd say to y’all is fricken, it's hard, it's definitely hard I can't even say anything until you experience it yourself, yo see how it actually is, cause I'm not gonna lie, and I have no shame in admitting this before I was homeless I used to look down on the homeless, but id look at people and not even think twice what they are life is really like, but now that I’m in this situation, ts like it's definitely not no game, you could be in this situation in a heartbeat, I could be in this situation, i've been in this situation my whole life, since i was a kid, I was with my family, but now it's just me alone and it's definitely got no game when you're alone.

Anyone could be put in that situation.

Most definitely.

sounds really scary. So I guess, I don't really have any more questions but if you wanna talk for a little while longer I'm down for that.

For sure man, but yeah homelessness is definitely, I definitely in a situation right now where, they're helping me, they have programs right now to help people get off the street, I have like a program where they're trying to get me into my own apartment, so the next step basically is to get my on apartment and they're gonna pay the rent for a year, but before that it was definitely a very big struggle for me, man, the streets is no game, you know what I mean. When it comes down to eating, even showering, cause I ain't have no family or nothing, when it comes down to any of that. I have family down here in Springfield but they don't really care if I ate, they don't care if I showered, they don't care what I do. Really honestly I just have to do everything by myself.

People like me, and most people don't know what it's like to fight for your basic needs, you know.

Yeah definitely cause the basic needs, you don't even realize how important they are until you can't, really do it anymore, which is eating, showering, you know i mean, clipping your nails, hair cuts, simple needs, shaving, you don't understand how important it is until you really can't do it anymore it's like wow the real world is serious. People will see you down and out and still look at you or laugh at your face and know that you're struggling. The real world is cold, nobody cares about you in the real world.

yeah you're on your own I guess.

Yeah man.

It's a scary thing

I can get the next interview

Thank you so much

Yeah for sure

Hi!

How you doin?

Good! I’m Julian, I just wanted to talk to a couple of homeless folks about what their experience is like and what the struggles are in today's pandemic and what their lives have been like. Does that sound ok?

Mhm.

Good. First of all, what's your name?

Andrew

Alright Andrew, and how's your day going so far?

Yeah nice and wet!

yeah seriously

It's rainy outside.

It’s raining here too.

Yeah.

So what has it been like living in odd times? I guess..

Nothing’s really open, finding a job is kind of hard.

Sounds really hard.

Yeah

And if you don't wanna and answer any of these questions that's totally fine.

Ok

Where would you like to be in a year?

In my own place, you know an apartment.

Mhm. Do you have a future job you would like?

Um right now I'm just trying to get back to working at Walmart, stocking shelves…

Were you working there previously?

Ah yes, 14 years ago.

Um. what was your childhood like if you don't mind me asking.

I was adopted when I was 12, so anything after that I don't remember but 12 onwards it was pretty good.

What makes you the happiest?

Definitely my family and friends.

That's great. I’d say it's the same for me. What's the worst and best thing that happened to you this week?

Can you repeat that again?

What's the best thing that happened to you this week?

I think, um, that I'm still alive, man. That's me.

I love your mask by the way, I love Chuckie.

Thank you haha, it's upside down. I hate wearing this, I hate wearing this thing.

It's really hard to breathe sometimes isn't it?

Yeah. Talking and breathing and everything so yeah

So, how did you become homeless? I know you were working at Walmart and what happened?

Yeah before I became homeless I was working at a gas station, before I lost my job at Walmart I was working at a gas station, and I got arrested and I spent 3 and a half years in jail and cause I- and then I got out of jail I had nothing. No place to live nowhere, so I became homeless?

And what's that been like for you? How can you describe it? For someone like me who's never even-

Homeless- This is my third time ever being homeless in my lifetime. It's at first you get here you feel like to me I feel like I'm low, I'm dirt, I lost everything, and kind of scared when you first get here, you share a bathroom, you sleep next to somebody, you gotta watch your stuff. It's hard if you're not used to it, kind of like the things you'd usually do in your own place kind of like do the opposite, carry stuff where you go, pretty much.

That sounds really hard. Like you have to really look out for yourself. Like you really have to look out for yourself. Is that how it is?

Yeah. me being going to jail, you always gotta look behind you and make sure you're not, nobody's trying to come at you at any time. But definitely it's almost like prison here, the difference is there's no walls and you're free to go and come back.

Um, what's your biggest fear?

My biggest fear? That I'm gonna be homeless the rest of my life, I wanna move on. You're in this little ditch.

Somewhere where you're stuck.

-I'm at square one having nothin. You don't leave anything important behind-

What's a typical day in your life like?

Umm, lets see, I get up 1t 6:45, in the morning, get dressed, come to breakfast at 8 o'clock, I usually help out I do blankets at the shelter I pretty much fold them and wash them, DO I eat breakfast and then other than doing that mostly get up hang outside all day talk to different people, some people don't really talk, kind of like look around see who you can talk to, who you cant talk to, there's the same people talk with them, hang with them, go for walks, try to keep yourself busy, come back, line up for lunch, go back outside do the same thing, and then the process repeats itself for dinner time, we check in at 5:30, we turn in, a bit of an early dinner downstairs, just unwind, Listen to music, just what we usually do, in a little area, when I'm here I usually walk and listen to music, and when it's not raining I sit YouTube and color.

What kind of music do you listen to?

I listen to everything. My friend, I was sitting down and he calls me, and I don't hear nobody, my ears, and he tapped me, “what” he scared the crap out of me. A lot of people look at me weird cause I listen to all different kinds of music and think like head-banging music, rap, the classical, I listen to everything, Pretty much standard. There's so much music out there, some people listen to rap, some hard rock, I listen to everything.

And you said you color?

Yeah I colored in a coloring book.

That's awesome, I like to draw.

Yeah. I used to draw when I was younger, but my hands aren't working right. Getting older, you know haha.

Yeah I get that haha. What kinds of things did you used to draw?

Ninja turtles I used to be really good at that with my brother, um just doodle things,, just sit and doodle, whatever's on my mind I’d just sit and draw.

It's a great way to kind of like, I don't know we all have these mental images and we can put them on paper, that's a cool thing.

Just come up with something and poof it's there!

Yeah. Um, what do you think is a misconception about the homeless.

Most people when they see the homeless they think they are alcoholics or druggies, um pretty much they don't really know, they can't sit up there and think they are all alcoholics and druggies, some people something happened in their life, they came out of jail, a storm happened in their life and destroyed everything. Never judge a book by its cover. You never know what a person is.

Absolutely.

I used to think back in the days I'm 46 now, I'm older now, as I get older, it doesn't really I'm an average person, I have a daughter, I have a son, I have a stepson, those are my priorities before anything else. To take care of, so that's what I'd say, never judge a book by its cover, you can't tell me who I am. You can't say “Hey he's an alcoholic” you don't know.

It's really unfair isn't it.

Yeah! They don't know who they are.

I think most people, I mean I was brought up to think that sort of thing , but it's not true because you don't know, you just don't. You have to find out before you make any assumptions.

Yeah. ------ (technical issues) And sometimes when I go to stores and people ask me for money, I’m homeless too! I can't help me and help you because a lot of people ask me if I can get them something to eat, and asking for something to drink, I can't really help you, I'm homeless too. I feel bad, sometimes I give them some water. I can't really give them any money because I don't know what they're going to use it for. It's safer if I just give you something to drink. It's safer, you have to eat and drink. You can survive off water, liquids, but your body can't survive without food or liquids.

I have a-

I-

Oh go ahead

I don't like to interpret people. You go ahead haha

I was just gonna say it seems like you really have to take care of your basic needs, everything else seems much less important.

Yeah, my knowledge in life is just how my mom raised me. Just give respect. If you want me to respect you, you have to respect me. You know what I’m saying? Disrespect me, I'm gonna be disrespectful.

Respect is so important I agree. It's everything.

Yes it is. It's the cycle of life and respect is to be kind to others. I like to pay it forward. I don't know if that's how you say it right. Like if someone buys me lunch, the next week whatever, I pay it forward. I'm a really positive person so haha.

What would you say is the hardest part about being homeless?

Right now, just trying to find a job, I don't know, trying to keep positive feed for yourself, there's some people who are always degrading, not disrespectful, they're trying to put you don't, negative attitudes, you know, Keep positive.

That's all you can do I guess, Keep positive and get it done. What would you say to someone who thinks homeless people aren't as good as them or something? Look down on them.

I'd say you can come and see what we go through everyday, ho we struggle, most of us are trying not to be homeless, I wasn't born to be homeless, something happened, I Am facing it, what I have to do, m working for a better place for myself, so I wont be homeless.

It could happen to anyone it sounds like.

Correct, you never know, things happen in weird ways, sometimes you're just like, now what.

You gotta build it back up. Is there anything else you wanna talk about?

Any more questions?

I don't think so, but I'm really enjoying talking to you.

Yes! I don't like this (Gestures to the computer)-All the staff say I'm a very positive person, I help a lot of people out, I try my best, I try the best I can, so if someone did it to me, pay it forward to someone else! It's hard though. That's why people like me so much. I'm very easy going, I let people lean on me.

It sounds like if everyone was like you the world would be a much better place.

(Staff)- He takes care of the shelter!

This is my home, until whenever I move on. Ok take care, nice meeting you. Have a wonderful day and be safe.

Take care! Bye.

(Staff)-Ok Julian this is Shaela. She's agreed to talk to you for a bit too.

Great!

Hello!

Thank you so much for talking to me. I really appreciate it.

(unintelligible)

So I'm Julian and I just wanted to talk to you a little bit about what your life's like and how you are. You know that sort of stuff. So we could either, you could either just talk to me about what your life's been like, what your story is, or I could just ask you some questions, either way.

Well my life has been bad, you know. I've been homeless for almost 14 years you know. I lost my kids, I lost everything. I tried to die, you know, I tried killing myself a few times, you know, I cut myself just to get the anxiety out, you know, like I hear voices in my head and you know I just wanna get out of here.

Yeah. That sounds awful.

Yeah.

I can’t even imagine…

Yeah. It's hard you know. You have family and it's like you don't have them. You know? It's stressing me out. I have 6 boys, I don't have communication with them. Maybe with one or two, you know, one of my kids I don’t even know where he’s at. You know I tried Facebook, I don't know how to look for him. I went to the courthouse to see if they could help me, they didn't, they said they couldn't help me because they didn't have an address. You know I've gone through a lot. It's just painful.

I'm sure. More than anyone could imagine it sounds like. Um What do you think the hardest part of your life right now is.

The hardest part of my life? Being homeless.

Yeah. And where would you like to be?

I would like to have my own place and get low income or something so i could pay it. I don't ask for much, you know, I just need to do better for my life, for myself, for my kids. Sorry.

What would you say makes me the happiest?

Seeing my kids. (She is crying)

Sounds like you miss them a lot.

Seeing my kids. Yeah. I do.

What would you say is your biggest fear?

To die without seeing my kids. I miss them so much.

I’m so sorry it sounds so awful.

My family won't see me, you know, they won't let me see my kids,

Sounds like you miss them terribly.

Yeah (unintelligible)

What would you say a misconception about you is? Like when people see a homeless person-

What's that?

Like, something they think that isn't true.

I don't know…

It's ok. Well how did you become homeless?

When I lost my kids I couldn't pay the rent, I was jumping from house to house (unintelligible), I went to the cemetery at 1 o'clock in the morning, just to be clean, to say clean (unintelligible) so scary.

Sounds like you’ve been through more than anyone can imagine. The internet cut off. This is making me cry a little bit. Jesus. My initial thoughts are that I feel very privileged and stupid, uh I I think a lot of us need a reality check., I realize how much we have, and how idiotic a lot of us are. It's connecting again.

(staff)- Julian not sure what happened.

that's ok. I really wish I could have met you in person. You seem like an incredible person.

Thank you. Where you at? Where you from?

I'm from Amherst. So pretty close to here.

Very nice talking to you.

I just… What was your early life like?

My Early life? I dropped out of school, when I made it to the twelfth grade, due to my other, my mother got divorced and everything went down, I got raped a couple times, but she never cared, she didn't hear it. I ended up using drugs, I take methanol, I've been in the methadone clinic since I was 21, I'm 45 now. But I'm doing better than I was, I'm not using no more. I smoke pot, but other than that I stopped using heroin.

You've been through so much it sounds like. I can't , like, wow. And your, I mean you're still here that's so impressive.

Yeah. Yeah. I wanna be strong

You are strong it sounds like. Really strong.

Thank you.

Of course. I really hope you get to see your kids again.

Me too.

Thank you so much for talking to me.

No problem, if you ever come around Springfield, I would love to meet you.

I would love to meet you too. We wouldn't have to get disconnected.

Yeah hahaha. Oh wow.

Thank you so much.

You're welcome. Have a great day.

You too!

God bless you.

God bless you too

God bless you haha. Thank you, let me get Cristy so she can do this thing. Thank you Julian.

Thank you.

Much love sweetheart. Bye bye.

Bye. She's so incredible. Wow.

(Staff)-Um Julian, this is Alexi

Hola Julian! How you doing?

I'm doing pretty good!

Do you need to have my mask off?

No it's alright I can hear you fine.

Alright. So what's going on?

Not much i just wanna talk to you a bit about how you're doing, what your life is like. If you wanna like take control, or I can ask you a couple questions-

Go ahead. What regards?

Huh?

How am I doing, like in what regards? I'm gonna take my mask off?

(Staff)- yeah that's alright

Like in what regards?

How are you feeling right now and like how's your day been?

How am I feeling? Well I don't know if (unintelligible) but I got like schizoaffective disorder, which may be came from my substance abuse, it's more like a drug induced psychosis, so I have my days when I'm up and I'm down, like doctors wanna call it bipolar, but I'm thinking as human beings we all have our up and down days.

Definitely, yeah

So, today I'm kind of down, I'm alright, I mean I suffer because of my situation, homelessness, it sucks.

Yeah

(Talking to staff) So yeah I've been doing good. I suffer a loathsomeness and drug addiction has cost me my family because they've all pushed e to the side. I'm not the kid who my family loved and they probably still had, just in a different way of living. I mean people look at me like I'm just a loser, a bum, I don't really (unintelligible) So um, what is this, what are you doing this for?

Uh, it's a senior project for me.

Ok… so what did different things are you supposed to ask, like what different questions, cause I have some good, I'm not too good at talking to people

No no it's fine.

I don't mind sharing, I don't mind sharing

Neither am I honestly, I'm trying to get better at it.

I see, I see you (unintelligible) He looks kind of like “ehhhh” (unintelligible) so ask and I'll answer

Alright sure!

100% honesty

I really appreciate that, thank you.

As much information as I can give you.

Yeah, alright, so what was your childhood like?

My childhood, my childhood was really uh, my environment, where I lived in was bad because, well my family had to (unintelligible) in order for them to survive also the children in my house. They worked a lot. I was (unintelligible) by my grandparents. They umm had a tobacco farm, I grew up poor. In poverty and stuff. It was back in the 70s and 80s. I'm 44 years old, so they did what they had to do to survive and I had friends, but i kept a lot to myself, you know I kept a lot to myself,, but my friends made me really happy, like my friends made me really happy.

Yeah

Um happiness.

What do you think makes you the most happy now?

Umm the most happy now? Do you believe in a higher power, I believe in a higher power, he makes me happy, you this god. Holding me, not caring for me, just being a friend, (unintelligible). You know people come to me and I know it's him bringing them to me.

Yeah totally.

Or earth, whatever it is, a power I'm giving myself.

Something that's looking out for you.

Yeah. so yeah, but my childhood was good, I always liked school as a kid, I used to go to school, (unintelligible)

what would you say is your biggest fear?

One of my biggest fears growing up was rejection, people telling me no, but my biggest fear right now is this situation. So I'm gonna ask you a question. So for what class are you doing this, for what class is this? Sociology or something?

No it's kind of like a general class, were just meant to do a project.

Highschool or college?

Highschool

(repeated several times)

Oh high school for your English class? What is it English, math science, what is it?

It's called the senior project, it's not like a traditional class they just like to tell you.

Oh I wouldn’t know I didn't graduate high school

Hmm. Yeah

So I wouldn't know. So yeah that's about it. my worst fear right now is staying stuck in this place that I'm in. That's my worst fear right now. And death.

Yeah, death is scary. Um, do you feel safe where you are right now?

Yeah, I feel safe, I know everybody here, I avoid confrontation but when it comes, you gotta define yourself. That's been my way my whole life.

What's a day in your life like, like if you have a routine.

A day in my life is it's not too great, I'm a homeless addict, I'm a heroin addict, I got caught up in the heroin epidemic, the opioid epidemic, so wake up brush my teeth, stay here, have breakfast, go about my day do whatever i can do to get just high, so I can cope with life. It helps me cope, even though in a way it's bringing me down, it helps me cope, it's bad it's kind of like me destroying myself, but I'm coping, I'm coping.

It's a way of getting by it sounds like.

Yeah. (mumbles) I'm also schizophrenic so if you hear me talking by myself, that's just me talking to god.

Yeah no problem, I actually have delusions too, I have OCD, so I get it.

You have obsessive compulsive disorder?

What?

Obsessive compulsive disorder?

Yeah. It's not as bad as it used to be, it used to be really bad for a while. So I get where you're coming from.

It's kind of personal, are you medicated?

Yeah I am

Ok. Yeah I'm medicated myself. I take Thorazine, for it's antipsychotic, and I take Tranxene for sleep.

Yeah. You have trouble sleeping?

I really didn't and then I became dependent on this pill, so I tell myself why am I gonna take a pill that I don't need, when I sleep fine, now I'm dependent on this pill, you know.

Um, so yeah it's not a problem if you talk to yourself or whatever.

Ok so you wanna, that's just my day I (unintelligible) We wake up at 6:30 in the morning, do our hygiene, have our breakfast, do what we gotta do throughout the day, come back, have a shower, go to sleep by 10. Same routine. Pretty sure people at home have the same routine. Go to work, do what you gotta do, be in bed at a certain time. Life is just a routine.

Totally yeah. What are your future planes? Where would you like to be in a year?

I wanna go back to college, (unintelligible) I'm trying to get out of here, I don't know what's next. Hold on a sec. Next Question.

What is a misconception about the homeless do you think?

Misconception.. The way they look at us?

Yeah, exactly

Umm… probably I don't know, I can't think for others, but I think they probably think we're trashy people. Some people wanna move forward and they just don't wanna do nothing. They just expect things to come to them. In life you gotta do footwork, so a misconception is just trash. When I see other people I feel like I'm just trash before them, in front of them, honestly I can't speak for others. Another misconception is that we're all just drug addicts. Am I being recorded for this?

No, oh, on an audio recorder, not your face or anything.

Oh ok, ok. So I've seen in the movie where they look at homeless people like they were the scum of the earth.

yeah i get that.

(unintelligible)

What do you think the hardest part of being homeless is, or being you is?

Being me, or being homeless, being me and being homeless are two totally different things. Cause me myself I'm a good person?

Oh.

Excuse me?

Being you then, what's the hardest part of that?

What's the hardest part of that, that I'm still caught up in my childlike behaviors, as much of a grown adult I am, I still think childish ways and act childish, as long as there's dopamine in my brain I'll be happy.

Do you wish it weren't that way?

Did I wish I was what?

You weren't that way, like would you change yourself if you could.

My only problem is my (unintelligible) I wouldn't change it for the world. I mean (unintelligible) I can put a smile on my face, that makes me happy. Makes my higher power happy too. See you just smiled.

You did it!

See?

Um lets see, uh, how's today going for you?

Today's bee alright, as bad as the rain is out there, are you in Springfield, are you in Mass?

I'm in Amherst.

Oh you're in Amherst. So it's raining out here, my day’s been alright, but since I'm schizophrenic somewhat, I'm having a lot of battle in my head today, a bunch of lies, These lies I look for confirmation in them, and it's nothing but B.S.

Yeah. Delusions are really awful, man. I'm sure mine is nothing compared to what you've been through, but in my experience

I don't know. You know, people like you and me, I know people like you, cause you and me are you and me. We understand each other.

totally. It's like they often, for me, tell me things they want me to like, do things that don't make any sense, and people look down on me for that. I don't know.

Exactly! That's why at times you gotta brush through those thoughts, but they keep coming at you harder and harder. I did read this entire book, I also forgot the title of it. But it says, at times you gotta give into these thoughts, just let that voice win. But, unless it's gonna be you doing something violent, or insane or crazy, right?

Totally.

Ok. See what I'm saying. You can't do anything. You can't go out there and start doing crazy stuff, you aren't gonna hurt people and stuff like that, or yourself.

But on some level it sounds like you can't always resist them.

You can't resist them?

Sometimes force, like--

What do you mean by that?

Not the violent stuff, but like, what you're talking about with not always being able to resist the, for me it's compulsions, I don't know what it is for you.

For me it's not compulsion it's just lies for me. It's just lies in my head, it's just lies. Compulsion? What do your delusions compel you to do?

Like, cough really loudly until my throat starts to bleed a little bit, um

Really? So when you start coughing you just drink water.

Yeah I guess so haha

When you start coughing you know what's going to happen you gotta drink water, you probably got a dry throat, so you drink water (unintelligible) so what's your next question?

lets see.. What are your, if you don't mind me asking, what do your lies say?

My lies, uh right now there's been a lot of lies goin in my head talking about one of my children is not mine, so now, my child is being raised by a cousin of mine, alright, cause his mother gave away parental rights, I was in prison, and the lie, the voice in my head told me “It's not your son, it's not your son, it's not your son” So now I'm afraid I text my cousin all this crazy stuff until, oh no, I'm telling them to get a paternity test and everything. That's a lie, and just a bunch of stuff, and, which I wish I could just block. I wish it would all go away.

I wish there was a switch that you could turn off, for me at least.

Yeah. it is not always like that, some days you have good days, what else do my, they don't really force me to do nothing, one time I got in trouble, my voice in my head told me to swing at a police officer, so i did. That (unintelligible) whipped by the police and going to jail for a long time. So I lost that battle there.

It really, it's pretty brutal like the things they tell you to do, it's hard to resist them it sounds like.

Yeah it's not really hard it's just , don’t give into it, you know. For you um, they keep coming at you. I mean you are medicated, is your dosage right?

Uh no we’re still trying to figure it out.

Still trying to figure it out, yeah. It's like back back back and forth, but you also don't wanna be a guinea pig.

Yeah!

You know what I'm saying? And the side effects it takes on your body, (unintelligible) some of these (unintelligible) even give you erectile dysfunction, you don't want that to happen, you feel me.

No.

One of my medicines used to give me dysthymia, which is just like lockjaw, which is very painful

I've heard that it sounds awful.

It's awful. The losers in my head were telling me it was demons causing that, when all I had to do was call an ambulance and get help. I don't have a vehicle. So if I had called in an ambulance I wouldn't have been in 10 hours worth of pain or (unintelligible) Side Effect.

It's really impressive that you can look back at it and realize, what is actually going on, I can't always do that actually.

You can't do that?

Not always no.

Like in what though.

I still believe the things after their over, you realize that they're lies.

You still believe the things?

Sometimes yeah

Even though you know it's a lie, you still believe it?

Yeah part of me does at least

That's just the same delusion, or the same voice pressing the same line, it wants you to believe something else, you know?

yeah.

It didn't really happen you know?

Lets see... Did I ask you how you became homeless?

Well I had a family, I was doing really well, I was paying my rent, I had furniture, food, everything. And one night, it was like 4 in the morning. I was supposed to be sleeping, I think I was unmedicated, because at times I'm not too good at taking my meds, so I came up with something, a plan, to break into my… I have three baby mothers, so id break into her house, there's a lot of money in there, so I went along with that lie, ended up getting caught, cause i stole somebody's vehicle to get there from the gas station, and um I ended up getting arrested and I lost my apartment. So, see that one bad choice that led me to 4 and a half years of homelessness, the days go by how long you've been homeless. This situation, you wanna talk about Homeless, with income, well my income, there's not so much help you can get. You know unless you save. And then for rent it's like 1000 dollars a mount, I get close to 1000 dollars a month, and rent for efficiency, is that 850 bucks, the property owners, real estate company or whatever, they want you to have 2 to 3 times the rent count as your income, and you don't qualify for nothing, unless you get a government subsidy apartment.

From talking to people I've realized that anyone can be in that situation. Anyone can get there.

Yes. Some I'm thinking a lot of people work and work these little minimum wage jobs like the get minimum wage just to have a roof over their head and a little bit of food, so I'm not the only one.

Lets see, i don't really have any more questions but I'd love to keep talking to you.

That's what I'm saying! What do you do, what do you do throughout your day?

I do online school, which is interesting I guess, it's very different from normal school, but.

How old are you?

I am 17.

Oh you're 17, you look a little older, not in a bad way I don't mean it in a bad way, but you're 17, you're a senior?

Yeah.

What's your next um… What is your next step?

Well I wanna compile all these interviews.. Oh oh in the project or in my life?

In your life!

I wanna go to college I think, I don't know though, I think I do.

And major in what?

Biology, I love animals, so

Biology, huh. What animals?

Yeah

Ok, studying what like in biology

Um, I wanna become a vet.

You wanna become a vet, ok. Hold on. You like science, ok that's cool, there's nothing wrong with it. So, are you determined are you really going to do it? You said you're not really 100% sure, you said I don't know yet.

Well I'm not sure if I want to take some time before going to college, yet I guess

Yeah but, um I mean sometimes that gets in the way, you take a little time off and you never get back to it. I mean I did it , I took a little time off and you lose interest and who knows what happens.

that's good advice I think.

(unintelligible) Do you have a higher power?

Yeah I believe in god I guess I don't know-

You believe in god, well there you go, pray to god, ask him for guidance, ask what you can do best for me, god, and he might, he will, he will help you.

Yeah. it's a comforting feeling isn't it. To like-

Excuse me?

It's very comforting, for me at least

What, god?

Yeah

Well good yeah you deserve it, we all deserve it you know. God wants the best for us. In the bible god has plans for us to prosper. Through all of life. We want to go our own way, we want instant gratification, we want (unintelligible) when in life you gotta work hard

Things don't just always come to you, you have to work for it

You gotta work for them, you gotta work for them, yeah. Patience, patience is a virtue. A good guy that says he believes in god, Joe Ochman, he's a good boy, you know giving you hope. That's what I get out of Joe Ochman, a lot of hope. Things will get better, but you gotta you can't just sit and wait, god put people in your way that's gonna help you. You'll be alright. What was your name again?

Julian.

Julian? Julian Keins? What is Kanes?

Keins

I had a friend named Jason Heinz

Hmm.

(unintelligible) whenever you need me, you (unintelligible) Alexi and we’ll get back together, so I hope you do good, I hope you ace it

Thank you man, I really appreciate it.

Yeah I'm really excited, I love education. That's what went wrong in my life, I dropped out. I Thank you that means so much to me!

You're welcome man

You're an awesome guy.

You all set?

Yeah

Ok god bless you man.

God bless you too.

Alright peace

Bye

Yup.