t&dcreating > Basics about chicken color genetics inheritance in Silkies ;-) >
Le mie nuove colorazioni e forme in Moroseta europeo !
Also I was told "first breed the old existing
colours&types" BUT "blood crawls where going is not possible" so I wanted to :
* SELEZIONATE CIO' CHE VI PIACE - NEL MODO IN CUI VI PIACE - E SOPRATTUTTO CREATE *
All started with a dream, a vision that I wanted to realize :
"a Moroseta grande con barba,
con culo negra é con collo di cigno,
con testa nera é con zampe supercalzate"
in different Silver tonalities :
as in the vision
Gray
The selection is not yet finished, nor in shape nor in colorations, which is a double difficulty in one breed.
We are now at the 5th generation and we have still 2 generations to go before we are where we want to be :
reaching up to a few innovations in Silkies !
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Starting at the beginning, I let you see some photos of subjects of each year until now, the 5th generations :
a "splash" hen, you know this one hé, was brought in for the missing black-pigment diluting gene (Bl/Bl), she is the mother of the BlueSilver cock and Blue hens on the 1th photo of the 4th generation, with as father the BlackSilver cock of the 2th generations.
1st generation cock (2007) :
a Silkie cock Columbia, looking as a Brahma (which his ancestors where 6 generations before, a Columbia cock and Betulla hen), so he had the necessary color-genes, was crossed with a BlackSilver hen (is halfsister) and with partridge genes of a relatively good type.
2th generation cock (2008) :
a Betulla cock also looking as the Brahma type, son of the couple above (which gived too small ciuffo's and too little barba's) was crossed back on his mother, his sisters which where too light colored Silver partridges where crossed back on the Columbia father.
3th generation couple (2009) :
as these, half-brothers and half-sisters where crossed under themselves, out of them camed the next generation with bigger ciuffo's and barba's which I needed, also the more feetfeathers started to come only the blackheads not appeared yet.
4th generation 3 trio's (2010) :
It may look as this where the only 9 that I breeded, no, they where selected out of over 100 chicks. Now the selections are even much more drastic because now both, coloration and type, must be good. Of course the results become better because of the former years.
this blue hens I gived to Dorine
this Black(Silver) hens I gived to Tünde
this couple "blackheads" I gived to Louise
Sometimes it looks as live not like you anymore and all go wrong, breedingcalculations not end up, friendships go wrong, ... .
Anyway, I retook the breeding after almost quitting everything, as my passionated hobby. The reason for this was I becamed some very "promising" youngsters in my last selections out of only a 3 breeding trio's that where left to me.
The meaning now is to breed on with couples (1 cock with 1 hen) to be sure of the "genetic pool" of their chicks. You know this is very important to can succeed in this labyrinth of entwined genes.
I have now 8 separated compartments for adult breeders (all with little garden +- 16m2), here I will try to breed and select with 8 couples only, 2 older cocks and 6 new cocks, 2 older hens and 6 new hens, the next generations to what is my point of view in type
and colorations. The selections that are done every year are very drastic but necessary than I want to become these "new" colorations and types in the European Silkies.
"The type" is a little similar to the American type (is also why I asked Rachele a good couple of her "pure" American standard types, which she promised me and which I will breed independent from mine, so I maybe can help her in the future and I have always the good examples in front of me). They need the elegantly bowed neck which result in the head comes to stand in the middle above the body, the breast comes carried more forward and looks therefor much broader and rounder, the back seems so much shorter and weither and also the position of the tail comes to stand higher. They have also a better filled ciuffo and the legs are supercalzate.
higher deeper
"The colorations" are as I call them Light-Silver (before WhiteSilver) with testa nera (the cocks with Silver spikes in it) also the beard and whiskers must be black and enough black-pigment in the neck, officially they are Silver Quails or "Quaglia Argento".
I try also to breed more perfect the Gray-Silver and Dark-Silver which are officially "Blu Perniciata Argento" and Dark Silver Partridge (Wildtype/Selvatica) also both with testa nera (the cocks with Silver Spikes in it) also the beard and whiskers must be black.
The Black-Silver and the Blue-Silver which are officially Betulla & Blue Betulla and finally the Ice-Silver or the "Ghiaccio Argento".
It was never my goal to just reproduce excisting Silkies or excisting colorations. The real reason, from the beginning, what keep me going is " SELEZIONATE CIO' CHE VI PIACE - NEL MODO IN CUI VI PIACE - E SOPRATTUTTO CREATE ! " as Rachele finished so beautifully her latest newsletter. From the start I wanted to do something different in Silkies, in the "Silver" compartment (Black-, Blue-, WhiteSilver) and about the "type" (culo negra, collo cigno, testa nera, zampe supercalzate) I knew from the beginning
that this would take at least 6 à 7 generations and that I probably never could succeed alone. I also knew that all this never will get recognition, but who cares for that, the only thing that really matters is the passion. Of course there are still some imperfections in
the 5th generation but I still have 2 more generations to go to try to improve all this, then the ultimate assessment can be made up.
I let you see a few photos of selections I did the latest 8 months in these colorations, they are now all with big ciuffo and supercalzatta, some of them have yet the wanted type others not yet but there will be done two more years of selection on that to finish the sculpture.
I tried to make good colour photos, but as everyone who made yet photos of chickens know, most pictures never show the real beauty!
*
The meaning now is to breed on with couples (1 cock with 1 hen) to be sure of the "genetic pool" of their chicks. You know this is very important to can succeed in this labyrinth of entwined genes.
I have now 8 separated compartments for adult breeders (all with little garden +- 16m2), here I will try to breed and select with 8 couples only, 2 older cocks and 6 new cocks, 2 older hens and 6 new hens, the next generations to what is my point of view in type
and colorations. The selections that are done every year are very drastic but necessary than I want to become these "new" colorations and types in the European Silkies.
"The type" is a little similar to the American type (is also why I asked Rachele a good couple of her "pure" American standard types, which she promised me and which I will breed independent from mine, so I maybe can help her in the future and I have always the good examples in front of me). They need the elegantly bowed neck which result in the head comes to stand in the middle above the body, the breast comes carried more forward and looks therefor much broader and rounder, the back seems so much shorter and weither and also the position of the tail comes to stand higher. They have also a better filled ciuffo and the legs are supercalzate.
different standing position makes the wanted type
higher deeper
I try also to breed more perfect the Gray-Silver and Dark-Silver which are officially "Blu Perniciata Argento" and Dark Silver Partridge (Wildtype/Selvatica) also both with testa nera (the cocks with Silver Spikes in it) also the beard and whiskers must be black.
The Black-Silver and the Blue-Silver which are officially Betulla & Blue Betulla and finally the Ice-Silver or the "Ghiaccio Argento".
Read all about the feather colorations on :
It was never my goal to just reproduce excisting Silkies or excisting colorations. The real reason, from the beginning, what keep me going is " SELEZIONATE CIO' CHE VI PIACE - NEL MODO IN CUI VI PIACE - E SOPRATTUTTO CREATE ! " as Rachele finished so beautifully her latest newsletter. From the start I wanted to do something different in Silkies, in the "Silver" compartment (Black-, Blue-, WhiteSilver) and about the "type" (culo negra, collo cigno, testa nera, zampe supercalzate) I knew from the beginning
that this would take at least 6 à 7 generations and that I probably never could succeed alone. I also knew that all this never will get recognition, but who cares for that, the only thing that really matters is the passion. Of course there are still some imperfections in
the 5th generation but I still have 2 more generations to go to try to improve all this, then the ultimate assessment can be made up.
I let you see a few photos of selections I did the latest 8 months in these colorations, they are now all with big ciuffo and supercalzatta, some of them have yet the wanted type others not yet but there will be done two more years of selection on that to finish the sculpture.
I tried to make good colour photos, but as everyone who made yet photos of chickens know, most pictures never show the real beauty!
*
"Whatever crossing you make to whatever colour, from the first hundred chicks only a few seem to meet your wishes and are acceptable to continue breeding.
After this, it looks as if the breeding is successful for several years and suddenly all looks so horrible (year 4 and 5) that you consider starting all over again.
That is a year in which the colours segregate into true breeding gene combinations. Regardless the colour you are working on, this disastrous year is mostly
the point at which breeders quit, but if you are aware of this year, you are on the right track! Select the least ‘worst’ animals and continue breeding with them.
When you make the right selection, the percentage of correct animals will increase every year. By inbreeding you get all initial genes back".
After this, it looks as if the breeding is successful for several years and suddenly all looks so horrible (year 4 and 5) that you consider starting all over again.
That is a year in which the colours segregate into true breeding gene combinations. Regardless the colour you are working on, this disastrous year is mostly
the point at which breeders quit, but if you are aware of this year, you are on the right track! Select the least ‘worst’ animals and continue breeding with them.
When you make the right selection, the percentage of correct animals will increase every year. By inbreeding you get all initial genes back".
*
5th generation (2011) :
JUST
" NEW IN SILKIES "
hmmmm.....
Because for some reason it seems not to be possible to create in Silkies the coloration "Columbia" in both sexes !
The gene "Co/Co" not work in the same way on hens as on cocks, resulting in hens as "incomplete Columbia",
they look as light Silver partridges or as white blacktails. The cocks come close to what should be "Columbia".
eb/eb S/S Co/Co eb/eb S/- Co/Co
my "Columbia" couple I gived to Louise
We did yet in 2008 a presentation of "Columbia" Silkies in Bruges on the international exhibition :
as in Bruges 2008 European championship
So, I decided to make some changes. I would try to remove the patterning (Pg/Pg) from my Silver Partridges and to bring in the black-pigment intensifier Melanotic (Ml/Ml) from my BlackSilvers with an extra supplement the "blackheads" or "Testa Nera".
This cock and hen are responsible for the forme, supercalzate, cuiffo.
ER/eb S/S Co/Co Ml/Ml Pg/pg+ eb/eb S/- Ml/ml Pg/pg+
By intensive selections I could become the exact combination for "Silver Quail" :
eb/eb S/S*S/- Co/Co Ml/Ml
"Silver Quail" or "Quaglia-Argento"
" NEW IN SILKIES "
hmmmm.....
Because for some reason it seems not to be possible to create in Silkies the coloration "Columbia" in both sexes !
The gene "Co/Co" not work in the same way on hens as on cocks, resulting in hens as "incomplete Columbia",
they look as light Silver partridges or as white blacktails. The cocks come close to what should be "Columbia".
eb/eb S/S Co/Co eb/eb S/- Co/Co
my "Columbia" couple I gived to Louise
We did yet in 2008 a presentation of "Columbia" Silkies in Bruges on the international exhibition :
as in Bruges 2008 European championship
So, I decided to make some changes. I would try to remove the patterning (Pg/Pg) from my Silver Partridges and to bring in the black-pigment intensifier Melanotic (Ml/Ml) from my BlackSilvers with an extra supplement the "blackheads" or "Testa Nera".
This cock and hen are responsible for the forme, supercalzate, cuiffo.
ER/eb S/S Co/Co Ml/Ml Pg/pg+ eb/eb S/- Ml/ml Pg/pg+
By intensive selections I could become the exact combination for "Silver Quail" :
eb/eb S/S*S/- Co/Co Ml/Ml
This is a selected young cock LS (5 months now) that have a very good type, I will put him together with these young hens, once with
this "unpure" (ER/eb) Black on Silver hen (5 months now) to bring in more black intensifier Melanotic (Ml) and second this LightSilver hen (5 months now) to try to stabilize this American looking type and to reproduce the coloration of the cock LightSilver (Silver Quail) not Columbia, which is claimed to be realized elsewhere, the difference is that in LightSilver there excist also hens, this have no doubt !
extended black patterned silver quail eb/eb S/S*S/- Co/Co Ml/Ml
Gallina con testa é barba nera
Gallo con testa é barba nera con i picchi d'argento
Anche pata negra
To compare the coloration "Silver Quail"
This couple (+- 8 months) WS cock (which need more "Ml", as the younger cock on the first photo, he need also a bigger ciuffo, he is
still one of the earlier generation) and a black hen on Silver (also +- 8 months), and her 5 younger almost equal sisters, which have a very nice type and also all details are very good. (she is now brooding on the eggs of Rachele's white Americans I got from Saveria, the
eggs where fertilized but I am not sure the embryo's go on growing, they had a travel of 2000 km and one week in the car to endure).
Les 5 soeurs noirs ont été réservées pour Amélie - cerise (Bibi).
EXTRA
" NEW IN SILKIES "
haaaa.....
The Multiple Patterned Silver Partridge already excist for years in the Silkies.
A beautiful alternative on that coloration could be, I tought, the "Mulitple Patterned BLUE Silver Partridge".
To realize this we had to bring in the black-pigment diluting gene "Bl". We did so by crossing our Dark Silver cock with a Splash hen.
This hen provided the Blue-gene.
my Splash hen I gived to Tünde
Now we had to overcome the problem of the Dominant ground-color of Splash (E/E) to ristore back to the recessive ground-color of Partridge (eb/eb) in two steps (E/E >> E/eb >> eb/eb) and keeping the black-pigment diluting gene "Bl".
By intensive selections I could become the exact combination for "Mutiple Patterned BLUE Silver Partridge" :
eb/eb S/S*S/- Pg/Pg Bl/bl+
"Blue Silver Partridge" or "Azzurro-Argento"
haaaa.....
The Multiple Patterned Silver Partridge already excist for years in the Silkies.
A beautiful alternative on that coloration could be, I tought, the "Mulitple Patterned BLUE Silver Partridge".
To realize this we had to bring in the black-pigment diluting gene "Bl". We did so by crossing our Dark Silver cock with a Splash hen.
This hen provided the Blue-gene.
Now we had to overcome the problem of the Dominant ground-color of Splash (E/E) to ristore back to the recessive ground-color of Partridge (eb/eb) in two steps (E/E >> E/eb >> eb/eb) and keeping the black-pigment diluting gene "Bl".
By intensive selections I could become the exact combination for "Mutiple Patterned BLUE Silver Partridge" :
eb/eb S/S*S/- Pg/Pg Bl/bl+
"Blue Silver Partridge" or "Azzurro-Argento"
This is a selected young couple (7à8 months) cock BS and the hen "Blu perniciata Argento" I will try to reproduce the coloration of the hen and bring more Silver in the cocks coloration. These are still of the earlier generation type, they not have yet the good American looking type, as the more higher tail (culo negra) and the head more backwards (collo di cigno), but there will be worked on that also.
blue patterned silver multiple laced partridge/brown eb/eb S/S*S/- Pg/Pg Bl/bl+
To compare the coloration "Blue Silver Partridge"
in a Brahma hen in a Silkie hen
close-ups of the subtile plumage coloration "BSP"
An earlier hen Blu perniciata ArgentoTo compare the coloration "Blue Silver Partridge"
close-ups of the subtile plumage coloration "BSP"
An other very young couple (+- 4 months) the hen is an other "Blu perniciata Argento", the cock is a "dark perniciata Argento" (finally a darker one, because the cocks where always much more lighter colored, but I want them even more darker as this one, as they breed them in Germany, they call it wildtype). As you can see they are not yet finished in the growing but next to each other you can see good the difference in both colorations tonalities. Also cocks were becomed in this coloration but they had the autosomale red in the wings.
Still very young but the ideal color-combination
difference of a few weeks
Young "Blue Silver Partridge" cock
ALSO
" NEW IN SILKIES "
heeee.....
To keep up the good quality of Black Silkies there are often done crosses with lavender Silkies.
This couple provided the lav-gene.
my couple grigioperla I gived to Tünde
So many Black(Silver) are carrier of that black-pigment diluting gene lavender (LAV+/lav), on the outside (= phenotype) you can't see it !
As also in Cucula becamed the "grigioperla sparviero" by crosses Black (carrier of lav) X Cucula resulting in :
my couple Sparviero I gived to Tünde
I
I
V
grigioperla sparviero chick I gived to Yemisi
As was already becomed in the pearlgray Cucula (grigioperla Sparviero) it was only a matter of time before these 2 alleles of the recessive gene "lav" would come back together in my specific "Silver" breeds, since I do many close family crosses to become the right combinations (father X daughter and mother X son), it eventually also happened in my selections resulting in "lavender Silver Quail" :
eb/eb S/S*S/- Co/Co Ml/Ml lav/lav
"Ice Silver" or "Ghiaccio-Argento"
heeee.....
To keep up the good quality of Black Silkies there are often done crosses with lavender Silkies.
This couple provided the lav-gene.
So many Black(Silver) are carrier of that black-pigment diluting gene lavender (LAV+/lav), on the outside (= phenotype) you can't see it !
As also in Cucula becamed the "grigioperla sparviero" by crosses Black (carrier of lav) X Cucula resulting in :
my couple Sparviero I gived to TündeI
I
grigioperla sparviero chick I gived to Yemisi
As was already becomed in the pearlgray Cucula (grigioperla Sparviero) it was only a matter of time before these 2 alleles of the recessive gene "lav" would come back together in my specific "Silver" breeds, since I do many close family crosses to become the right combinations (father X daughter and mother X son), it eventually also happened in my selections resulting in "lavender Silver Quail" :
eb/eb S/S*S/- Co/Co Ml/Ml lav/lav
"Ice Silver" or "Ghiaccio-Argento"
To compare the coloration "lavender Silver Quail"
As
a supplement I breed this coloration, you can see here a "Ice-Silver" hen
(+- 5 months) she have a very nice type , I have an other
similar colored hen (+- 10 months) and also a 2 similar colored young chick cocks (+- 2 months) are selected. I will try to reproduce this kind of "Ice-Silver" (which look as completely Silver and not become yellowish in the sunlight) with also that American looking type.
similar colored hen (+- 10 months) and also a 2 similar colored young chick cocks (+- 2 months) are selected. I will try to reproduce this kind of "Ice-Silver" (which look as completely Silver and not become yellowish in the sunlight) with also that American looking type.
"ICE-BEL" Silver opponent of "ISA-BEL"
lavender patterned silver multiple laced partridge/brown eb/eb S/S*S/- Pg/Pg lav/lav
Remarke the sublime shape of this new subtle colored hen
detail for forme of barba & ciuffo and Silver-neck
detail of the Silver peaks in the cock his ciuffo
comparation with Brahma lavender silver partridge
As you can notice, my complete breedings are very close related to each other, as a result very unique !
(unique in the sense of "genetic-color-codes" in modern formed Silkies)
V
ARGENTO
QUAGLIA - AZZURRO - GHIACCIO
You can judge for yourselves if I maded progresses every generation, in the colorations & types, but also in the genetic combinations of every subject independently. As you can see for the colorations I try to make good combinations between the genes "ER - eb", always based on "S", signed with or without "Co - Pg - Ml", some diluted with "Bl", others overtaken by "lav", all the other genes I not allow in anymore, so they must be kept out, which was the more difficult task. Do they have enough "Silkie" dignity to be presented publicaly ??
I hope to be able to let you see the next years the 6th generation (2012) and the final 7th generation (2013)
Maybe than I can present two more "new " colorations in Silkies let us just wait and see.
In any case, I hope you enjoyed this reportage about my alternative breeding line.
Danny
@
I just want to make a last statement and a question !
My complete 3th, 4th and 5th generation have been rung with Italian rings, than I am since 2008 ASA-member connected to the FIAV.
Il 29 giugno 2008 nasce A.S.A. (associazione sarda avicola) dedita all'allevamento sportivo !
Ook ben ik reeds sedert 5 jaar lid van de Nederlandse Zijdehoen club daar er in België geen Zijdehoenclub meer is.
Deze club bestaat al meer dan 40 jaar en brengt nu eindelijk regelmatig "nieuwe" kleuren ter erkenning !
What must be the real intention of the "hobby-breeding"
A group of interested can't depose its egg, is claimed, namely those of the creative "do-it-yourselfers".
Breeders pull out more and more because colours and/or types are not accepted, can't be showed.
The so called do-it-yourselfers still leave their most splendid products home,
soften up by dusty judgements that firstly the old, existing colour layers and/or types must be bred.
The hobby (allevamento sportivo) is seriously done short on pluriformity.
What can do an association to the tendency to develop into an "old-timer club"?
Is there a need to found an European association for these "do it yourselfers" ?
I hope to be able to let you see the next years the 6th generation (2012) and the final 7th generation (2013)
Maybe than I can present two more "new " colorations in Silkies let us just wait and see.
In any case, I hope you enjoyed this reportage about my alternative breeding line.
Danny
@
I just want to make a last statement and a question !
My complete 3th, 4th and 5th generation have been rung with Italian rings, than I am since 2008 ASA-member connected to the FIAV.
Il 29 giugno 2008 nasce A.S.A. (associazione sarda avicola) dedita all'allevamento sportivo !
Ook ben ik reeds sedert 5 jaar lid van de Nederlandse Zijdehoen club daar er in België geen Zijdehoenclub meer is.
What must be the real intention of the "hobby-breeding"
A group of interested can't depose its egg, is claimed, namely those of the creative "do-it-yourselfers".
Breeders pull out more and more because colours and/or types are not accepted, can't be showed.
The so called do-it-yourselfers still leave their most splendid products home,
soften up by dusty judgements that firstly the old, existing colour layers and/or types must be bred.
The hobby (allevamento sportivo) is seriously done short on pluriformity.
What can do an association to the tendency to develop into an "old-timer club"?
Is there a need to found an European association for these "do it yourselfers" ?
* Concludo dicendo : selezionate CIO' CHE VI PIACE - NEL MODO IN CUI VI PIACE (se questo rientra in uno standard ben venga ma il vostro appagamento personale viene prima) - e soprattutto CREATE ! Molto ciò di cui abbiamo sono CREAZIONI perchè togliervi la possibilità di una nuova "SCULTURA" ?
*Rachele Newsletter inviata da: COCINCINA..passione per le razze avicole [99368]
Indirizzo: http://cocincina.freeforumzone.leonardo.it/comunita.aspx : NUOVA RAZZA O LINEA DI SELEZIONE DIVERSA
Indirizzo: http://cocincina.freeforumzone.leonardo.it/comunita.aspx : SELEZIONE & BENESSERE ANIMALE - LINEA DI SELEZIONE
Indirizzo: http://cocincina.freeforumzone.leonardo.it/comunita.aspx : NUOVA RAZZA O LINEA DI SELEZIONE DIVERSA
Indirizzo: http://cocincina.freeforumzone.leonardo.it/comunita.aspx : SELEZIONE & BENESSERE ANIMALE - LINEA DI SELEZIONE
Piccola gratifica testa e barba nera
t&dcreating > Basics about chicken color genetics inheritance in Silkies ;-) >
