This is our second meeting of the Phenomenology Workshop, here in the Kira Cafe
[8:06]  Pema Pera: Last week Yoko gave a wonderful talk about her whole life, and how that led up to her work in phenomenology
[8:06]  Pema Pera: Carlos, can you give us the URL of where Yoko's talk was posted?
[8:07]  Carlos Cornelius: yes: http://sites.google.com/site/phenomenologyvip/
[8:07]  Pema Pera: For those of you who would like to be on our mailing list, we have a google email list; see: http://groups.google.com/group/virtual-institute-for-phenomenology
[8:07]  Fael Illyar: Hi Everyone :)
[8:07]  Fefonz Quan: Hey Fael!
[8:07]  Pema Pera: to get on our email list, just go there and apply for membership, and Carlos will then subscribe you. Please do add a few words like you came here to these meetings, so that we can weed the bots from the real avatars :)
[8:08]  Pema Pera: From now on, Carlos will be our intrepid workshop leader, so he will announce and coordinate future activities. Today he will talk himself, about his background and interest in phenomenology. Carlos, the floor is yours!
[8:09]  Carlos Cornelius: Thanks Piet!
[8:10]  Carlos Cornelius: Hi. I will start with a few biographical information and then relate that to my interests in phenomenology and philosophy
[8:10]  Carlos Cornelius: Trying to emaulate Yoko's presentation
[8:11]  Carlos Cornelius: I grew up in Mexico City. And always wanted to know more about how things work on a big scale
[8:11]  Lucien Robespear is Online
[8:11]  Carlos Cornelius: I loved the stories about the Mayan and Aztec cultures. Their cosmic view of things.
[8:12]  Carlos Cornelius: I wanted to study math or physics, but in Mexico you have to decide "what you want to be" when you are 18
[8:12]  Carlos Cornelius: Somehow I ended up studying Law
[8:12]  Carlos Cornelius: And I don't regret it
[8:12]  Carlos Cornelius: There is a connection between Law and how things work on a big scale
[8:13]  Carlos Cornelius: When I entered Law school at Mexico's National University I took a wonderful course: Roman Law
[8:14]  Carlos Cornelius: My professor was great. He always emphasized our connection with other societies from the past through our legal systems
[8:14]  Carlos Cornelius: It was like having a telescope. You read the decisions of the Roman judges and a soap opera that happened more than 2000 years ago unfolded
[8:15]  Carlos Cornelius: The Romans had an appreciation for structure. They always said that no matter what society we live in there will always be certain rules
[8:15]  Carlos Cornelius: Murderers need to be punished. Promises must be kept, etc...
[8:16]  Carlos Cornelius: After taking two courses of Roman Law I decided I wanted to switch careers
[8:16]  Carlos Cornelius: I wanted to be a physicist.
[8:17]  Carlos Cornelius: My reasoning was that physicists deal with structure and how things are on the largest possible scale
[8:17]  Carlos Cornelius: And like the Roman judges, physicists have an appreciation for structure
[8:17]  Quintessential Sorbet: (sorry...nvm me...crash problems)
[8:17]  Carlos Cornelius: So i started studying a little bit of physics here and there.
[8:17]  Carlos Cornelius: Took some courses
[8:18]  Carlos Cornelius: But never quit Law school
[8:18]  Carlos Cornelius: Then one day, as part of our criminal law course, our professor took us to a prison
[8:19]  Carlos Cornelius: that really changed things for me
[8:19]  Carlos Cornelius: i got vey interested in human rights, human dignitiy and freedom
[8:19]  Carlos Cornelius: Here was something that had nothing to do with structure at a big or short scale
[8:20]  Carlos Cornelius: How to understand freedom and dignity?
[8:20]  Carlos Cornelius: How to justify how we treat prisoners or our indifference toward those in need?
[8:21]  Carlos Cornelius: Very quickly those questions radically changed my interests
[8:21]  Carlos Cornelius: All of a sudden I was taking courses in the School of Philosophy
[8:21]  Carlos Cornelius: Philosophy is also concerned with the big scale
[8:22]  Carlos Cornelius: But it tackles issues that have little to do with frameworks and structure
[8:22]  Carlos Cornelius: Consciousness, freedom, personal identity
[8:22]  Carlos Cornelius: Maybe these things also have to do with structure, I started wondering
[8:23]  Carlos Cornelius: Maybe they are not real. Maybe they are. What would each of these possibilities mean?
[8:23]  Carlos Cornelius: I finished Law school and became very depressed with the option of becoming a lawyer
[8:23]  Carlos Cornelius: In Mexico, of all places...
[8:24]  Carlos Cornelius: I knew my country needed (and needs) good lawyers, but I felt my contribution would not change the nature of things there
[8:24]  Carlos Cornelius: And decided to be serious about learning philosophy
[8:25]  Carlos Cornelius: This is when I got very interested in phenomenology
[8:25]  Carlos Cornelius: I took courses on Hume, Kant, etc...
[8:25]  Carlos Cornelius: The usual suspects
[8:25]  Carlos Cornelius: And then I read a brief introductory text to Husserl's studies on time
[8:26]  Carlos Cornelius: That was something
[8:26]  Carlos Cornelius: Husserl said in one of his lectures that our understanding of time has changed little since Augustine
[8:26]  Carlos Cornelius: Since Augustine!!!!
[8:26]  Carlos Cornelius: I thought Husserl was crazy
[8:26]  Carlos Cornelius: And then I started reading him more carefully
[8:27]  Carlos Cornelius: By the way, while this was happening, after finishing Law school, I started a Masters in Philosophy at the New School for Social Research
[8:27]  Carlos Cornelius: in New York
[8:28]  Carlos Cornelius: Hanna Arendt and other professors from the German exile brought some archives that are now the Husserl archives at the New School
[8:28]  Carlos Cornelius: I did not take a course on Husserl until my last semester there, in 2003
[8:29]  Carlos Cornelius: And the course I took was on time
[8:29]  Carlos Cornelius: So here are the things that started convincing me that Husserl was right when he said that our understanding of time has not changed much since antiquity
[8:30]  Carlos Cornelius: How do we know that time exist?
[8:30]  Carlos Cornelius: Well, we are acquainted with it... But how?
[8:30]  Carlos Cornelius: Well. through our experiences
[8:30]  Carlos Cornelius: But how are we acquainted with our experiences?
[8:31]  Carlos Cornelius: When you start going this route, very quickly you are on the realm of phenomenology
[8:31]  Carlos Cornelius: Questions about knowledge become more alive. They become nested and complicated
[8:32]  Carlos Cornelius: Simple answers are not appropriate. Structure is only partially relevant.
[8:32]  Carlos Cornelius: But then something got my attention.
[8:33]  Carlos Cornelius: If I wanted to talk about experience I needed to know a bit more about the subject that experiences
[8:33]  Carlos Cornelius: The human subject
[8:33]  Carlos Cornelius: Or more precisely, the human mind
[8:33]  Carlos Cornelius: By the time I took the course on Husserl I was working on Aristotle's politics and decided I wanted to learn more about the human mind
[8:34]  Carlos Cornelius: Before knowing more about phenomenology I wanted to know more about the mind
[8:34]  Carlos Cornelius: How it works, what can it be, or what can we say about it
[8:34]  Carlos Cornelius: I changed program from the New School to Rutgers University
[8:35]  Carlos Cornelius: I started working with psychologists, on visual perception
[8:35]  Carlos Cornelius: Ran a few experiments on visual attention and multiple object tracking
[8:36]  Carlos Cornelius: And took many courses on philosophy of mind
[8:36]  Carlos Cornelius: I learned philosophical views on what is mental content, how it may relate to language
[8:36]  Carlos Cornelius: why philosophy is important for psychology
[8:36]  Carlos Cornelius: why psychology is important for philosophy
[8:37]  Carlos Cornelius: I started thinking about possible dissertation topics
[8:37]  Carlos Cornelius: I knew I was interested, because of the work of Husserl, in time and consciousness
[8:38]  Carlos Cornelius: Around this time I met Piet and Steven, through my psychology advisor, Zenon
[8:38]  Carlos Cornelius: They opened a new window for me.
[8:39]  Carlos Cornelius: The window of engaged awareness.
[8:39]  Pema Pera: (Steven = Steven Tainer, Stim Morane in SL; I am Piet Hut in RL)
[8:39]  Carlos Cornelius: Thanks Piet. I should have clarified that :)
[8:39]  Carlos Cornelius: Husserl was clearly concerned with engaged awareness.
[8:40]  Carlos Cornelius: But I haven't really appreciated how deeply he was concerned about this.
[8:40]  Carlos Cornelius: And it was not like I took a course on Husserl's work with Piet and Steven.
[8:40]  Carlos Cornelius: I just started talking to them. And somehow they made me realize that.
[8:41]  Carlos Cornelius: The importance of engaged awareness as a topic that needs careful analysis
[8:42]  Carlos Cornelius: So what is engaged awareness, you might ask
[8:42]  Carlos Cornelius: Let's take time as an example
[8:42]  Carlos Cornelius: We have the equations of physics that describe it as a dimension of spacetime
[8:42]  Carlos Cornelius: complicated, but there they are, those equations
[8:42]  Carlos Cornelius: is THAT time?
[8:43]  Carlos Cornelius: mmm.... maybe not
[8:43]  Carlos Cornelius: so what is it?
[8:43]  Carlos Cornelius: how we experience it.
[8:43]  Carlos Cornelius: as past, present and future
[8:44]  Carlos Cornelius: but are we really acquainted with these distinctions
[8:44]  Carlos Cornelius: in other words, how is it that we engage with the presence of things?
[8:44]  Carlos Cornelius: that must definitely tell us something about time
[8:45]  Carlos Cornelius: something that "past", "present" and "future" seem to ignore
[8:45]  Carlos Cornelius: so, I think that is the project of phenomenology
[8:45]  Carlos Cornelius: leave distinctions behind and focus on the presence of things
[8:45]  Carlos Cornelius: as they are
[8:46]  Carlos Cornelius: but this doesn't mean that distinctions are irrelevant
[8:46]  Carlos Cornelius: we need them. but they are insufficient to describe the presence of things
[8:46]  Carlos Cornelius: and what can be more fundamental and important than the presence of things
[8:47]  Carlos Cornelius: isn't that how we know everything?
[8:47]  Carlos Cornelius: OK, going back to the biographical information
[8:47]  Carlos Cornelius: I started writing a dissertation on the philosophical aspects of the psychology of time
[8:48]  Carlos Cornelius: And there are many
[8:48]  Carlos Cornelius: So I had to choose
[8:48]  Carlos Cornelius: I chose to focus on psychological research on estimation of time in animals
[8:48]  Carlos Cornelius: Bees, ants, rats, pigeons
[8:48]  Carlos Cornelius: Really amazing stuff
[8:49]  Carlos Cornelius: The patience of the psychologists that do this research is awesome
[8:49]  Carlos Cornelius: So I focused on that and on what philosophers could say about it
[8:49]  Carlos Cornelius: And I convinced my dissertation advisor that I needed to say something about the present
[8:50]  Carlos Cornelius: So I also focused on research (now on humans) that studies simultaneity windows
[8:50]  Carlos Cornelius: These are very small thresholds in which two events are percieved as one
[8:51]  Carlos Cornelius: Or two sequential events are perceived as simultaneous
[8:51]  Carlos Cornelius: Also very interesting stuff
[8:51]  Carlos Cornelius: So I finished my dissertation, bringing philosophy to bear on psychological research on time
[8:52]  Carlos Cornelius: And then finished my PhD. Then got a job at San Francisco State (very recently, just 2 and a half months ago!)
[8:52]  Carlos Cornelius: And now I teach philosophy there.
[8:53]  Carlos Cornelius: Three of my students are here, as part of a reading circle we have
[8:53]  Carlos Cornelius: The focus of which is phenomenology
[8:53]  Carlos Cornelius: And now I want to start thinking again about the issue of "presence" that Piet and Steven so vividly presented to me
[8:54]  Pema Pera: (can you tell us the SL names of the three students?)
[8:54]  Carlos Cornelius: Yes. Rachel, Rahana and Lucien
[8:54]  Carlos Cornelius: Is that right?
[8:54]  Rachel Esharham: Yes.
[8:54]  Pema Pera: welcome to our group, Rachel, Rahana, Lucien!
[8:54]  Lucien Robespear: yes
[8:54]  Rahana Halostar: Yes. Hello
[8:54]  Pema Pera: Thank you so much, Carlos, for such a vivid talk!
[8:55]  Pema Pera: I like your term "engaged awareness", Carlos -- a succint summary!
[8:55]  Pema Pera: I also liked your one-liner "and what can be more fundamental and important than the presence of things, isn't that how we know everything?"
you have a great way of summing things up!
[8:55]  Pema Pera: we only have a few minutes left, but if there are any questions, comments, ideas -- anyone?
[8:55]  Carlos Cornelius: Thanks! I really want to emphasize how important is just to talk about these things
[8:56]  Pema Pera: yes, and we will do so in the group, in weeks to come
[8:56]  Rachel Esharham: Can you give an example of "simultaneity windows"?
[8:56]  herman Bergson: Is "engaged awareness" not the same as Intentionality?
[8:56]  Rahana Halostar: The 'distinctions of past present and future, of memory are so important in understanding personal identity.
[8:56]  Pema Pera: (the first three sessions are mostly just to get started; last week Yoko, this week Carlos; next week Andrea Staiti, from Boston University will give a similar introduction)
[8:57]  Carlos Cornelius: Sure. Audition has a 2 ms simultaneity window. Any set of sounds below this incredibly fast threshold is perceived as simultaneous
[8:57]  Rachel Esharham: And composers take full advantage of that window...
[8:57]  Carlos Cornelius: Engaged awareness is very similar to intentionality in that both require "aboutness"
[8:57]  Carlos Cornelius: They are about the world
[8:57]  Carlos Cornelius: But engaged awareness is the source
[8:58]  herman Bergson: Can you give a description or definition of "engaged awareness"
[8:58]  Carlos Cornelius: Intentionality, I think, is a feature of mental content in general, even when it is not "engaged"
[8:59]  Carlos Cornelius: These are tough issues, but Ill try :)
[8:59]  Carlos Cornelius: Franz Brentano said that intentionality creates a "circle"
[8:59]  Carlos Cornelius: I represent the world, but I only know my representation of it
[8:59]  Carlos Cornelius: It may be wrong
[9:00]  Carlos Cornelius: So as long as you characterize awareness as representation you are in the circle
[9:00]  Pema Pera: (i'll quietly leave -- please feel free to continue as long as you like; and see you all next week!)
[9:00]  Carlos Cornelius: But engage awareness, in a way, can't be wrong
[9:00]  Pema Pera is Offline
[9:00]  Carlos Cornelius: I also need to leave soon, but I would love to talk about this next week
[9:00]  herman Bergson: How do you establish the truth criterion of "engaged awareness"
[9:01]  Carlos Cornelius: More than a truth criterion I think it needs the requirement of being a unique property of a subject's perspective
[9:02]  Carlos Cornelius: I am sorry. I have to leave.
[9:02]  Archmage Atlantis: Thank you very much Carlos, I look forward to future sessions with your presence.
[9:02]  Eliza Madrigal: Thank you very much Carlos!
[9:02]  Carlos Cornelius: Thank you for your questions. We shall talk son.
[9:02]  Yakuzza Lethecus: thx very much carlos
[9:02]  Storm Nordwind: Thank you indeed!
[9:02]  Carlos Cornelius: Next Friday.
[9:02]  herman Bergson: Thank you, Carlos :-)
[9:02]  Fefonz Quan: Thanks for the talk Calos!
[9:02]  Rahana Halostar: Yes very interesting!
[9:02]  Lucien Robespear: Thank you Carlos
[9:02]  Eliza Madrigal: (Bye everyone)
[9:02]  Rachel Esharham: Thank you , Carlos! Very interesting!
[9:02]  Carlos Cornelius: I will post this on the phenomenology site.
[9:02]  Carlos Cornelius: http://sites.google.com/site/phenomenologyvip/