Meshá: I was born in the Pyrennees, border of the province of Bearn and the Basque Nation (Euskadi), but I worked in West Africa in the late Nineteen Sixties as a teacher - making forty dollars a month.
B: Can you tell us something about your parents, who and what they were, and what life was like for you growing up?
M: Suzanne Elleau [her mother] was a member of the "Resistance" during World War Two, and she was also a model for Coco Chanel [fashion queen founder and director of the House of Chanel]. Later in life she was the head of a national health organization. René Mongé, my father, is still alive and is an author, a publicist [for an information network], and a Mason. Growing up among these giant intellectuals was not easy.  I learned as a small child that if you do not contribute to social change, you did not deserve to be born. I joined the Communist Party at fourteen. I grew up at my mother's health center, "Bel-Air", and was raised by her staff of twenty-two as extended family - a stepping stone for the "village mentality", "us" more important than "I".
B: Your names will seem unusual to most Americans. Do they have a special significance or meaning?
M: Meshá means angel, Mongé The Monk, Irizarry the one who resembles God. But I am an agnostic.
B: When did you come to the U.S., and was that with your parents or alone, and how did you manage to gain entrance to the country?
M: I came alone in Nineteen Seventy-Two, first to New York - total cultural shock, lasted only three months, came back in Nineteen Seventy-Five on a tourist visa, and married my gay Puerto Rican friend Roberto, which led to my obtaining a legal "alien" card.  I am still an "alien" and proud to be so.
B: Are you a resident of both the U.S. and Africa? I ask this question, as you know by now, because you identify yourself as an "African-American," and I dispute that designation as used for anyone who does not hold joint citizenships in both the U.S. and one specific African nation.
M: I am legally a French Citizen abroad, but as a Basque I do not feel any affinity with the French. My family is multi-cultural, of European descent and also of black ancestry; but I do not claim any AfriKan-American affiliation. For the past thirty-two years in AmeriKKa, I have been acculturated in the Latino and AfriKan communities, raised five AfriKan children - among them, my deceased son Idriss Stelley - with my ex-wife Samia. [Meshá has no hesitancy in identifying herself as bisexual.] The other kids - Samira, Bilal, Saeed, and Wali [Samia's children] -are doing really well, all on the road with publishing companies. Folks ask [because her skin is not very dark] "I see you are mixed, but what are you?" I laugh and say : "Take your pick. I'm a sister."
B: As you also know by now, I disagree that anyone should be identified as "black" because the majority of so-called "blacks" are browns or tans, there has never been any evidence that there is such a characteristic of humanity as "race," and to me it is as preposterous as it is destructive to use skin color as identification of "race." Do you agree or disagree with me on this issue, and why do you agree or disagree?
M: Ah, the raging controversy! LOL! Well, just a simple answer here: Human life as we define it started in AfriKa. So, genetically speaking, although over the past eons of migration, through nutrition and climate changes, genetic mutations, et cetera, we diversified in color and morphology. As far as I believe, we are one.
B: Do you still practice any tribal rites or customs, and if so which ones?
M: Dude, I am not AfriKan. I have been practicing Kwaanza [rites initiated by Dr. Maulana Karenga for celebration of the new year and as a reminder of "black" history] with my extended family for the past thirty years.  But I have also attended a feminist seder [a liturgical meal held in honor of the Jewish holiday of Passover], and I have participated in ile [defined by Meshá as "the Afrikan practice that voodoo stems from, mostly practiced in the Carribbean"], and Santeria rituals and Unthanksgiving Native American rallies. [Re Santeria rituals, Meshá notes that "each saint is actually a pagan in disguise, because during the Spanish Inquisition it was the only way to worship without ending up at the stake."]  It is like that of my son Idriss, who converted to Islam at the age of seventeen and later combined spiritual elements of many faiths that caused his college professors at Heald College to call him "The Shaman".
B: Was Idriss Stelley your only child, and did you have to raise him as a single mother?
M: Yes. I left his father when Idriss was two because of domestic violence. We are cool now; he came to visit last year to honor Idriss' memory. As I told you, when Idriss was five, I hooked up with Samia.
B: Though I realize how sensitive this may be, readers (or viewers) are going to want to know why your son's name was Idriss Stelley rather than Idriss Mongé-Irizarry.

M: Idriss was the third child of Kenneth Scott Stelley, whom I never married. Kenneth is now sixty-two and is in the Army at West Point. But that's an altogether different can of worms.
B: From what I have read, it looks like Idriss was born somewhere in France. Is that true, and if so, why do you refer to him as an "Afrikan"?
M: Idriss was born at San Francisco General Hospital. But from the age of one to twenty-one he traveled with me to Euskadi every summer to spend time with his maternal family. Idriss considered himself to be AfriKan from his paternal side, a descendant of the slaves. I respect his conception of himself.
B: Has the cause of the shooting which occurred ever been definitely established, and if so what was the incident or what was the series of incidents that caused Idriss to be shot forty-eight times by nine police officers, and was he armed with any kind of weapon at the time, and if so did he try to use the weapon?
M: In August Two Thousand Three the city settled with me, and the mainstream media published that the homicide by police of Idriss was "justified." Idriss had a ritual tool with him, attached to a five-inch thick pager chain, a bamboo peeler given to him by his girlfriend's dad, curved inward, to make the bamboo stick for their karate training. Idriss was a second class black belt in karate. I listened to all the audio tapes from the homicide investigation, and all officers stated that they never made physical contact with the "suspect". I saw the tool exhibit at my lawyer's office, covered with Idriss' own blood.
B: Were the facts you state established in the lawsuit entitled Idriss Stelley v. City and County of San Francisco?
M: [Attorney] Andy Schwartz told me to mediate and settle or he would drop my case.  I got scared and settled for five hundred thousand dollars. Forty-five percent went to Schwartz. I invested two hundred and fifty thousand into Bayview, Inc. to strengthen black and brown ownership of San Francisco Bayview District. The remaining twenty thousand or so went to opening the Idriss Stelley Foundation. I did not spend one penny of my child's blood money on myself. How could I? That is not what Idriss would have wanted me to do.
B: Unless the terms of the settlement agreement must remain confidential, what did the City and County and/or the SFPD agree to do under those terms?
M: One day after the "Fajitagate" episode, newly appointed interim Chief Heather Fong told me in front of the mediation judge: "On behalf of the city and my department, I deeply apologize for what happened to your son Idriss. It was wrong, and we will make sure that such a thing will never happen again". It did not phase me. The mediation was a confidential process that I could not overrule by publicizing her statement, which was therefore mere flattery, damage control of a sort to keep me under control. Willie Brown did all possible to block Idriss' case from public scrutiny. He was bidding for the Olympic Games, and the horror of Idriss Stelley's execution could not have possibly happened in his beautiful, touristic, "most liberal city of the world".
B: Please explain what you mean when you state on your web site and elsewhere that the lawsuit "is at the root of the forty-hour mandatory SFPD Mental Health Training." Also, you indicate that the source for the statement that the lawsuit is at the root of the training is Jeff Adachi. Who is he and on what basis did he arrive at that conclusion?
M: Jeff  Adachi is at the head of the San Francisco Public Defenders office, and he made that statement on several occasions on my show "No Pigs in DA Hood," on BVHP Community Radio, and on the Michael Hibbit network. [Supervisor] Tom Ammiano, in Two Thousand Two, introduced the motion for the Mandatory Mental Health Training after the ACLU, Caduceus Mental Health Services, and I requested it a number of times at the Board of Supes meetings. The Supervisors voted unanimously for it and It was ratified in March of Two Thousand Two. Similarly, I was on the Prop H reform task force that passed by a substantial margin on the November Two Thousand Three ballot in spite of exorbitant financial opposition by the Police Officers Association. Police Commissioner Peter Keane later confirmed that Idriss Stelley's case was at the root of Prop H.
B: Why do you think the mayor at that time, Willie Brown, did not want to approve a one hundred and seventy thousand-dollar budget appropriation to set in motion the mental health training program?
M: Kuz the ratification would amount to an admission of guilt, or at least negligence. I used a trick, a touristic boycott [to thwart Brown's opposition]. Idriss having had dual Franco-American citizenship, I wrote to every French consulate in the world, urging them to publicize a boycott of San Francisco tourism if Brown kept stalling on the ratification. Two weeks later Brown received petitions from eighty-seven French consulates threatening a boycott, and he ratified the budget appropriation. I did not publicize my modus operandi, did not care about publicity. We won. Besides, this would definitely not be covered by the mainstream media. So, why bother?
B: Ever since Willie stopped wearing Nehru jackets and acting like an ardent social reformer, ever since he took training to speak like a white Harvard graduate and started dressing in gray charcoal suits and homburg hats, ever since he put his dark-skinned wife in a separate house and provided her with money to keep quiet, ever since he began courting exclusively white women or paying them to have sex with him (whichever the truth may be about that), I have wondered why he continues to be respected by dark-skinned people (the term I prefer in lieu of "blacks" or "African-Americans") and is even construed as one of their heroes. Do you have any explanation for that?
M: Hmmmmmmmm. Money and power corrupt the best of us. Idriss threw a block party when Brown, the first black mayor of San Francisco, won the elections. It still breaks my heart remembering it. How do we spell Sambos and poverty pimps? Do you want me to name them all? Infamous Amos Brown, Sophie Maxweak, vane Dwayne Jones, Lame Leamonf McGriff, Condoleeza...Let me stop there. We are all redeemable. Many of us in the poor community of color have run astray, in the traditional plantation mode, elusively trying to achieve upper class status, and not understanding that we can be discarded as quick as utilized. That's another interview altogether. With my dear friend Dorinda Moreno, mother of the National Xicano Moratorium, we are planning an Integrity Workshop for Sisters of Color, to embrace again those under the illusion.
B: You have said that you yourself went through a police training course. For what purpose did you undertake the course? Did you ever intend to become a police officer?
M: It is a forty-hour intensive SFPD Academy Citizens Training course, a mini version of the full SFPD training: everything you ever wanted to know about policies and procedures, containment techniques, fire practice, high speed chase virtual reality, "how to catch the bad guys and smelly homeless", and then some. I did not apply with a light heart. I just wanted to get a better understanding of the organizational culture, maybe ideally make some internal (and discreet, but it did happen) allies. I first received an outraged letter from the Academy : "How dare you apply for our training." So, I e-mailed the application to Chief Fong, with a cc to hundreds of known CBOs [community based organizations]. The next day I received a call from Fong: " You are welcome to take the training". One evening, while attending a course on their third floor, I saw two framed pictures of Idriss Stelley and Cameron Boyd [also killed by police officers] along with date of birth and date of death. I called Fong and requested that the manhunt pictures, our dead children displayed as departmental trophies, be immediately taken down. The next week I was pleased to see that they had disappeared. The day of my graduation. a top brass officer came to me and said "I know who you are; I was the first one in the theater when your son died". I took his hand and whispered : "Lieutenant, I forgive you". You should have seen the recoil. But I believe strongly in modeling behavior. Me an aspiring cop? You so funny! But I do not hate cops. My godchild Sergeant Delacy David is the president and founder of Black Cops Against Police Brutality - b-cap.org. Officer Butler, Central Park Station, was one of Idriss' most adored mentors. Officer Yolanda Williams, put to pasture by the Bayview Precinct on indefinite medical leave due to the love and respect of Bayview commnunity, too close to the people. Officer Rosie Melendez, now retired, never promoted for twenty-nine years in spite of heading the SFPD Academy Citizens Training - too radical for the department. Lieutenant Con Johnson, now hidden at the Northern Station as candidate for Director of Community Policing. God forbid a black man would police the police!  And I set up the web site and petition for Atlanta PD Officer Terrence Alexander, racially profiled and terminated by his department. We won.
B: I notice that you have what you call a "public law degree" from the Polawsky Institute. What is that and where is it, is it accredited by any college or university association, and is the degree equivalent to a juris doctorate?
M: Institute Polawsky is an annex of Bordeaux University in Europe. I was given equivalencies by the U.S Board of Education, and according to this document I could take the Bar exam in Louisiana that is still operating under the Napoleonic Code [adopted in 1812 when Louisiana became a state]. I never used my degree here in the U.S. - not necessary in the grassroots world, and I distrust lawyers except for Bill Simpich, currently involved with the War Moratorium - love him to pieces. But my legal background helps me decipher through legal documents and push for class action suits statewide against police excessive force and racial profiling, it's in the  works.
B: At what times and on what days or nights does your radio show appear, and what are the most common topics you cover?
M: We are twenty-four/seven. We have twenty-four anchors, poetry, social justice, spiritual motivational speakers (who have to remain non-denominational), prison movement, nutrition and health, youth issues, police accountability, Black Power movement, dead air if any filled with music.
B: In what year did you found the Idriss Stelley Foundation, where did you get the money to start it, and how is it funded now?
M: We officially opened our doors a few days after the settlement in the lawsuit with the twenty-six thousand left after Schwartz's legal fees and the investment into Bayview Inc. As you can imagine, after four and a half years of operation, all the money is gone. The twenty-four hour Crisis Line is my cell, and I run ISF on my six hundred and sixty dollars a month fixed income from a property I sold to my family in Euskadi. Potential grantors, in order to offer fiscal sponsorship toward non profit status, invariably asked me to broaden our spectrum into "end the violence", which I always refused to do. Why should I dilute our very specific agenda, law enforcement accountability, and become a competitor of peace funds ? Let city or state government have their say on our agenda and projected outcomes? I prefer continuing without a salary, and I do what I can without boundaries. Homie don't play! ["Afrikan vernacular," she explains, for "I don't sell out" or "don't play with me."]

B: Since I have been writing and speaking for many years (actually decades) on the subject of how the death penalty is used in discriminatory ways against the poor and especially the poor of dark skin color, you will understand that I am playing Devil's advocate in this question. On what basis do you make your claim of discrimination? Any studies or sets of statistics, and if so, compiled and/or published by what agencies?
M: I am not an expert here, but host the SF Bayview CEDP Chapter [Campaign to End the Death Penalty]. In short,
there is a disproportionate amount of innocent black and brown death row inmates who could not afford a good attorney and who were convicted by all-white juries. 
B: What action are you and your foundation taking on the death penalty discrimination issue?
M: First of all, on the mini but sorely needed scale, I scan prison movement web sites and view death row black and brown inmates' pictures, spot the ones who do not receive mail, and correspond with as many of those as time allows.  This might sound as effective as a fart in the ocean to you, but making personal, committed connections with isolated people is what I believe my son would tell me to do. Our foundation disseminates petitions online for discriminated-against death row inmates and corresponds with their families. It might not sound like much, but people touched by our efforts feel that it makes a huge difference. Are we powerful enough to have negotiating leverage for a moratorium on the death penalty? Probably not. I do what I can with the time and tools at hand.
B: What types of education methods or other types of methods are you and your foundation pursuing to bring about equality of treatment by police officers?
M: Know your rights workshops with interactive role play with clients, students at social justice classes at San Francisco State University, cop-watch training. We have a good working relationship with three San Francisco Police Commissioners - President Theresa Sparks, David Campos, and Pettra deJesus - who factor in our input around accountability. We are currently fighting for mandatory random drug testing for cops. That's a hard one. I am told that it is not in the budget. But what is testing cops for roid rage compared to the sweeping cost of litigations and setllements ? Casualties are on both sides. Cops on roids die of strokes and heart attacks, and they do kill during "critical incidents". Dellums [Ron Dellums, Mayor of Oakland] adopted it [mandatory testing] in July for Muni personnel and fire fighters. The city [San Francisco] just wants to avoid more obstacles to recruitment. But watch me. I'm gonna win this. It is just a matter of time.
B: How many hours a day and night do you labor on your various projects, and do you take time to do anything else but work?
M: Oh, bruthah. Since Idriss' death, I have been working fourteen to eighteen hours a day, no days off. The work is my only reason for living. Should I have taken the settlement money to Cabo San Lucas, buy a resort, and sip on margaritas until the fat lady sings? That is not what my child would have wanted. A martyr ? No, my son was the victim, not me. Pollyana? For sho! LOL.
B: How does one go about making a monetary contribution to the Idriss Shelley Foundation or volunteering to help you with the Foundation's projects?
M: Donations can be sent to the Idriss Stelley Foundation, 4921 Third Street, SF CA 94124. How to volunteer? Call ISF's twenty-four-hour Bilingual Crisis line at (415) 595-8251, my cell, any day, and  on the pillow at night. LOL!
If good souls enjoy the Internet - I don't - moderating some of our web sites would free time for me to visit clients and do police accountability clinics in other districts. We also need volunteers to do outreach, learn the Know Your Rights drill and take it on the road, especially through the school system. We are closing our doors in two months, the foundation and our radio station, SF Village Voice Community Radio, if we do not raise the funds to maintain basic operations. Rent alone is twenty-four thousand dollars a year. Sorry to say, donations are not tax deductible since we do not have IRS non-profit status. We are the sole grassroots agency in San Francisco providing direct services to police violence survivors and grieving families. I shiver at the thought of what will happen to many of our clients, for whom ISF is the only lifeline away from criminalization, if we shut down. It breaks my heart. But I have to remember that the lives we have touched in a positive way now enter a generational cycle of hope and healing, and no matter what, Idriss has not died in vain.