よろしければその長文をここに載せませんか？
どうせ朝鮮忍者はそのコメントを承認しないでしょうから。

でも、buffonさんの書いたことに加えて第6天魔王を名乗っ てたこと。一部の寺の焼き討ちはしても民衆には信仰が必要という 考えで宗派の布教まで禁止しなかったこと
くらいですね。buffonnさんの方がわかりやすいですよ。

Well, the Koreans reported that "Ichiro Suzuki liked grilled meat" recently.
However, it is meat of Japanese superior quality that he likes. Not Korean barbecue.

We say such an action as follows in Japan.

"The rude fellow who borrow globe of someone else (or trunks), and do a match of boxing"

Devil or angel realizing desire of a human.

こんな感じでしょうか。西洋人には、天使か悪魔かの二元論だけで 、東洋の「天人(善悪のどっちにも転ぶ可能性のある次元界)」の 意味が理解できないから。

「天人(善悪のどっちにも転ぶ可能 性のある次元界)」

それを理解するのは私にも難しいですｗｗ
第六天というのは仏教用語かなにかですかね？
六道みたいな。

まー、元祖の原始仏教でない仏教はそもそも分派と当時の新興宗教 の御伽噺の塊ですから。
結局のところは、信長が信じていたのは「欲望をかなえてくれるた めに契約してくれる悪魔」といったニュアンスで良いかもしれませ ん。
ansaikuropediaで織田信長をくぐるといいかもしれ ません。

仏教の中での人間界である須見仙の上にある六欲天の最高位である 他化自在天の主と言う意味で「人の喜びを喜ぶ」ということだそう です。

僕は6th　heaven　kingと訳したんですがね。

6th High-dimensional Mental Existence

第6界の精神的高次元存在
宗教食を脱色して、「一般化」して言うとこんなところかな。

heavenというと、西洋人には漠然とした天国のイメージしか ないようです。(最近のスピリチュアルブームではもう少し幅があ りますが)
どうキリスト教圏の人に言うかがここでのテーマですが、まー、キ リスト教信者が変な誤解をして喜ばないような「適当なところ」で よろしいかと。

それよりビデオテーマに戻って信長についての妄言を突っ込みまし ょう。

強い物に媚、弱い物を差別する朝鮮人の事大主義の性格から
「いつ、敵に寝返るかわからないから下手に剣を持たせられない」 「剣を持たせたらすぐに強盗に使うから棒しか与えられない」

思い出したけど初代朝鮮王って中国の隷属になることで中国の支援 の下、高麗王を裏切った元高麗軍の将軍じゃなかったかな？

I thought he would, so I save the cache.
Choson's last comment was
"You call other stupid but fail to research and make claims?
Your really smart sinapooh20002000 for not researching. "

What a arrogant.
Choson's research was only within his brain.

I think that it is not necessary to delete it "If he is confident so".
Why he would delete it.(-_-)
He deleted my "coffee shop" from his favorite too.
He is arrogant and timidity.
Vanity and his frivolous philosophy....

Well, on his silent for a history problem, How long he can keep quiet?(^.^)

あ、まだありました。
watch?v=Kgbv3BG1H7U

It is Good.
Because his mistake continues being displayed all the time!
Thank you for point out my mistake.

自分が好きな相手がクリスチャンじゃないと我慢ならないんでしょ うかね？
最初に朝鮮忍者と会話したとき、なんで熱心なクリスチャンが九字 切りなんてやるんだ？と突っ込んだら「仏教は宗教じゃない」と斜 め上の回答が来ましたから。

buffon399,
if someone disagrees with you, they don't have to be lying. however, i don't really see any point in arguing about nobunaga's supposed christianity: we can't prove or disprove anybody's belief, especially if they had been dead for centuries. and even if he was -- i understand that he has killed a whole lot of people. what kind of christian is this? of course, the same question should be also asked about western leaders throughout history, including the likes of president bush.

Thanks kalevraa

"we can't prove or disprove anybody's belief"

That's true like Sun-Myung Moon claimed he was the Messia and the Unification Church members really believe that.
However leaving fraud may cause unexpected problem in the future.
I want to block the fraud.

kalevraa,

If religion is belief in the personal inside, there is not a problem at all.
However, there is much case that religion is tied to authority and a money and war.
Humankind is a having this problem for a long long time.
Of course, a Japanese society carries it on its back, too.

ChosonNinja may have reason to Christianize Nobunaga.
Nobunaga is the most popular Sengoku icon and there are many many fans who know what ChosonNinja said isn't true.

very true. i live in the usa, and religion and politics are interconnected here, which i think is doing a lot of damage. however, it is not enough to call oneself christian; if one doesn't truly live according to percepts of christ and commits murder, for example, one can not be thought of as christian, any more than i can call myself japanese just because i like eating sashimi. of course, i am not a christian, but so are many people who say they are... thank you for your points.

kalevraa,

However, history of religion and adhesion of authority is very old.

Probably it may begin the age which they plagiarize an Egyptian myth, and "Torah" was made.
And "the cult that diverged from "Torah", and was born for Christian era 500 years of "Talmud ".

And there are the finance business and the bank system which "the Jews persecuted by Christian propaganda" made.

It made cause of world economy and religion and a lot of war.

But their purpose is only One.

It is a receiver of a stability of "a Dollar of Key Currency"

People in the world became a victim of their stupidity.
It continues in 250years more
by descendants of "Mayer Amschel Rothschild"

日本の学校だと倫理・社会でキリストも仏教も孔子も宗教としてで はなくそれぞれの思想として教えたと思いますがね。

なるほど、天草四郎と織田信長をごっちゃにしたんだ。
全然時代が違うのにね。

buffon399,
respectfully, this video might have started as a discussion as to whether nobunaga was a christian; but it has evolved since. for example, mr.suzuki comments are about religion and authority and causes of war and even rothschild, which is only remotely connected to nobunaga. i no longer see fergus 555's postings; what happened to them?

fergus5555 tried to bring us into some kind of Jewish things.
That's what ChosonNinjers always do.
First we pointed out the Ninjutsu Choson teaches wasn't Ninjutsu.
The Choson responded all Japanese were Korean.
I pointed out all humanbeings originated in Africa.
Then a ChosonNinjer responded Hip-Hop was invented by American.
And this time, fergus5555 tried to shift the converstion to something about Jewish.

buffon399,
actually, if you check the records, you will see that it was MR Suzuki who brought the jews into the conversation in two of his postings. fergus had a lot to say about japan and its perception of uniqueness, which, having lived there, i found interesting. why do you censor the postings?

I checked, fergus5555 brought Jewish issue and Suzuki just responded it.
I don't want to involve some kind of Anti-Semitism things.
That's all.

If you and fergus5555 want to talk about Jewish people, will you guys go some other videos?
I want to keep this thread for Nobunaga.
Someone may find this video while researching for Nobunaga.

Thank you

buffon399,
you make a good point -- let's keep the conversation focused on subject at hand. however, you are wrong on two accounts -- first: mr.suzuki brought the jewish angle in in response to my posting, not fergus's, and my posting had nothing to do with jews. secondly, most of fergus's remarks had to do with japan,its history, and its perception of itself. i have no wish whatsoever to discuss jewish issues on this video. my other points remain.

Do you have anything to talk about Nobunaga?

it is impossibe to say in japanese, like in english, "he has a headach" or" she is sad". you can only say "she seems sad". truly, it is impossible to know what is in another person's heart. thus, we can say "nobunaga seems to be a christian". however, since there is no evidence of this, we can just abandon this as a futile endeavour, and perhaps look at other aspects of his life. for example, was his brutality a standard of his times? how unusual were his social and economic reforms?

Dairokuten is the top title of "the 6 desire world of Buddhism".

こんな感じ？

Dairokuten Mao（第六天魔王）
"The archdevil in the 6 desire world of Buddhism."

天をheavenと訳してしまうとdevilと矛盾してしまうの でworldと訳してみました。
ちなみに戦国バサラの北米版は"Devil King"というタイトルで信長が主役な感じ。
幸村や政宗が主役の日本版とは赴きが違うね。

私の記憶ではfergus5555がユダヤ人の伝説はエジプトが どうのって最初に書いてあって、鈴木さんはそれに返事してそのあ とにまたfergus5555がいくつも書き込んでたと思うんで すけどね。
あんまり長いから私もよく読まなかったのは悪いですけど、変な方 向に持ってかれるのは迷惑なので全部削除しちゃいました。

失礼しました。以後気をつけます。宗教ネタは日本人より敏感に反 応する人が多いので。その手の人達はこちらで釣って持って帰りま す。m('_')m

話を延々と逸らすのは彼らのやり方ですから。

thank for your remarks. it seems to me that nobunaga's supposed christianity can't be disproved to everybody's satisfaction, but it is logically impossible to prove a negative anyhow. it is also perhaps meaningless to ask questions about nobunaga's religion without trying to define what a christian actually is.so in the stictest sense, many western leaders were not christians, no matter what they said. nobunaga had an interest in westerners, true, but he was a curious man.

"we will never find out what he believed in,"

Isn't it pretty clear?
He believed in himself, didn't he?

Suzuki-san,
everything is interconnected, and i hope that this is a free discussion, so you have not "deviated" from the subject, you just looked at it in a broader context of religion and power in the world. back to nobunaga: his life and acts were extraordinary and had a big impact on japan. we will never find out what he believed in, and his acts reveal no special sense of christian faith at all. so i think that calling him a christian is just irrelevant and pointless.

>calling him a christian is just irrelevant and pointless.

Yes I think so too.
However, ChosonNinja does not think so.
Therefore "this video" would be uploaded.

well, people are entitled to their opinions. it is true that there were some japanese christians in fuedal times, even daimyo i think. but again, what does it really mean when we say that someone is a christian? for example, there were a lot of "rice christians" in china, which means just hungry people who agreed to "become christians" for food given out by missionaries. is this meaningful? if an american politicians goes to church so that he gets votes from religious right, is he a christian?

Japan has interesting TV program and book recently.
It is related to "re-verification" of history.
We can know that what we learned in history of school is wrong.
In other words a historical approach always progresses. The new past truth is discovered.
However time is necessary till such the latest study translated in a country except Japan.
There are many "skeptical articles" about Ninjutsu in the same way.
However, as for the Japanese book which a most of Westerner read, there are"old books"

kalevraa,

There will be the case that we do not know up-to-the-minute information of a Western historical approach in the same way.
Therefore it is difficult to tell about history for everyone.

By thw way if you teach to me about religion and relation of politics, will you contribute it to my video?
There may be the video which fits the theme.

kalevraa,

I have heard that 80% of an American citizen were Christianity.
However, I do not watch the correct data that are Christianity of "Which system"
Probably there are mixture of classic religion and a Sect and New religion, and the whole will be called Christianity vaguely.

I want such information.If you don't mind,
Please write it in one of my video.

suzuki-san,
i don't have the exact numbers, but you might be right, most americans would call themselves christians. a lot do though, and are unable to separate religion, morality and politics. hence the persiut of "family values" in the usa, which is meaningless as different families have different values. people are very confused about such ideas, and when emotions are involved, especially fear, they can't think logically. this is why fear is used so much in politics for manipulation.

suzuki-san,
i am certainly no expert on religion or politics, and my opinions are based on only on my experiences and in different cultures and studies. so i don't know how valid my opinions are. however, i will be happy to share what i know and think. here is a good quote: "political and religious movements should be examined not in the light of their slogans, but in the light of the hope they offer". i think this is a profound truth; i don't remember who said it.

kalevraa,
Thank you for reply.
However, I wanted you to write it to my video if possible.
I thought that here was not appropriate to discuss it in this theme.
Therefore I wrote reply to you as comment of the next video. Please watch.

watch?v=-YZcBG1jWe0
___

"some japanese christians in fuedal times, even daimyo i think"

Like Otomo Sorin, he was a Christian daimyo and there are many records to prove.
How about Nobunaga?

What you inisist is like "Geroge Washington was Islam, there is no proof, but it seems true."

buffon399, you completely misunderstand me. i say that we can't know what nobunaga believed in his heart hundreds of years ago, and since there is no positive proof of him being a christian, we can just ignore this sort of idea as irrelevant. many japanese wore western style armor or used guns, which did not make them christians. a famous japanese swordmaker sometimes used western iron for his swords, but he certainly was no christian, ok? when there is no proof, it's only idle speculation.

Oh.. I'm sorry.
I thought you were sent from ChosonNinja.

そのうち忍者は皆クリスチャンだったって言い出しそうですよね。 

宣教師が入る前から「不正規戦闘要員」というのはいたのに、一体 、どうやって?こじつけるのでしょうかね。そのうちキリストは韓 国で死んでいるとか、日本のトンデモ本みたいなこと言い出すのか な。

そういえば、削除やブロックについて「言い訳ビデオ」みたいのが 最新のでアップされているようですが、何言っているのか半分ぐら いしかわからんです。2ちゃんか他のどこかに、あれの訳あります か?

ありまっせー、ハングル板の偽朝鮮忍者が大人気の６１７。私が書 いたものです。

おおきに。今、読みました。
ようするに「俺は筋を通せなくて無能なんだ、だけど正直者だから 信じてくれよ~~~」「文句あった、俺を見習ってセコくアカウン ト作りなおせよ」っつーことね。勝手に問題発言しておいてからに 、関わらないでくれだと。

これ、ここに張っておきます。

watch?v=TvUGglrchmw

ChosoNinja cannot defend promise on 10th.
He tell a lie about Japanese Nobunaga.
Probably he will excuse himself in this way
"I talk about Christianity!!"

あ、どうもありがとう。「言い訳ビデオ」に字幕を付けてアップし ました。

朝鮮忍者のコメント訳
じゃあ証拠を出したらお前の無知でヘイトで羨望的嘘（？）をyo utubeから消して謝罪するか？
でも真実がお前の頭を打ってもそんなことしないだろう、そして無 知のままでいるだろう。
返信すれば日本のクリスチャン殺戮の歴史（ちょっと文章が意味不 明なので意訳）を教えよう。

私が書き込んだレス
I'll post reply on watch?v=5oFPmjB4JNA.
Because you do not approve my comment until your find something to slander.

I don't think real humble christian would call someone ignorant insted of showing evidence. But you are showing how nasty person you are. You are damaging Christianism.

So ChosonNinja said he has a proof of Nobunaga Christian theory that he created and none of historians have never claimed.
Let us see that first.

では朝鮮忍者さんにその証拠とやらを見せてもらいましょうか。

キリスト教の魔女狩りの660万人の殺戮には敵いまへんがな。
まー、これ言ってもヨーロッパを敵に回すことにはなりません。魔 女裁判の事実に関しては、バチカンが公式に謝罪したぐらいですか ら。

日本のクリスチャン殺戮の歴史?

忍者と何の関係あるのかねー。
もしも隠れキリシタンを探し出して殺したのが忍者の任務の一つだ ったりしたら、チョ忍は、どーすんのかねー。(笑)

Fantasy: Tendency to retreat into fantasy in order to resolve inner and outer conflicts

ないない。「創作技術を磨く」のは日本人の才能ですよ。
朝鮮のは、ボテボテの捏造に過ぎません。学というより韓国ドラマ 並みにつまらない捏造御伽噺。
なんか創作という言葉は彼らには使わせたくないですね。コリエイ トでよろしいのでは?

ChosonNinja's now spamming around.lol

even if this was the case, really one-sided and extreme to say so.

Nobunaga didn't trust any religion.
He used Buddhism or Christianity but didn't have faith.

well , if he welcomed christian missionaries he trusted christianity , cus you know how many ppl would go agains him for that?

You haven't read any books about him, have you?
Nobunaga simply used the missionaries.

What you need to do is bring a solid evidence of Nobunaga being a Christian.
That's going to be great discovery.
You can be famous.

I havent said his christian , I just said he gave christianity a favor , still ther are problabilities. So , who knows....

Who knows what?

Who knows....maybe some day we will actualy find out.

Find what out?

Nobunaga allowed them to propagate Christianism as exchange of Western products.
How do you explain he called himself some kind of Satan?

first of all I havent said he was christian, since thers no evidence that says that , the only thing I said is that he hated budhism and that he gave christianity a favor, second , if you know so much about japanese history you must know the ignorence of them when they called themself demons or devils

"they called themself demons or devils "

They??
Who are they?

lot of japanese warriors

What a pointless answer.
buffon referred the famous episode of Nobunaga but InfinityXMaster don't understand at all.
Obviously InfinityXMaster is an ignorant who can do only bitching.

Who else called himself as Satan but Nobunaga?
Please specify the names.

We don't have to know Japanese budo history to know if Nobunaga was a christian.
Nobunaga is very famous in Japan. So a lot of people are interested in him and there are many TV programs, books, etc on him.
He was the most powerful man during his prime in Japan.
So if he was a christian, he didn't have to hide his faith, but there is no record that he was a christian. He sent Japanese christians as missions to Vatican in 1585, and there is no record there that he was
a christian.

see, I haven said he was christian, I has said a lot of things and you still havent understood my point, why? cus you think Im only defending choson, Im on none of your sides, Im on the side of truth

Stop twisting, InfinityXMaster.
Be logical.
You said
"lot of japanese warriors called themself demons or devils"
because you didn't understand the buffon's point.
You don't even have basic knowledge about Nobunaga.

I checked your channel, so you are one of ChosonNinjer.
That's why you want to change the fact-Nobunaga wasn't Christian-to matches your ChosonGod's favor.
Insane.

It seems ChosonNinja is making the ninjers "Chriatian supremacist"
They don't care how ridiculous to say Nobunaga was Christian.

he replied to your comment. so what now?

InfinityXMaster doesn't specify the names yet.

InfinityXMaster
Why dont you show the name of historical records? Its the best.

Specify the names.

It is impossible that Oda Nobunaga was a Christian. If he was, that would mean that Japan would be a Christian country.

maybe nobunaga was acting like he was interested in christian religion so he could get western guns. giving a brick so he could get jade.(stratagy)

Greg Park
You don't have to use other ID to post my video.
I'm not blocking ChosonNinja account.

look at my profile, i assure you i am a yankee gaijin. as a lifelong student of nihon bugei such as yoshinkan aikido, jukishin ryu jujutsu, bujinkan& genbukan ninjutsu,kodokan judo,& muso shinden ryu iaido there is no bigger crusader against korean martial arts than me in michigan.

＞he could get western guns
Nobunaga didn't have to get western guns. Tens fo thousands of guns were made in Japan then. Japan was quite different from Korea.

tens of thousands of guns were copied, but not up to date guns because of japan's isolationism.

Nobunaga died in 1582, then Japan's isolationasim began in 1616. Antually, Nobunaga got up to date guns.

here some more truth for you
watch?v=cJoJDNVl2lY

The video has really funny part.
watch?v=ffEyl7ng1PQ
I'm going to make the response video so don't revise.

Camera wasn't invented in 1547 yet.

And the link doesn't work.

You can PM me with the link.

"Baptism of fire"
watch?v=iM0vZGfXarM

You guys really didn't read literatures.

Check this out.
watch?v=P49tmU_ehAM