Page 1
Du Shu Hway
Dharma and sutra discussion group
Fo Guang Shan temple, 540 Stretford Road, Manchester
13 August
Summary of discussion
1. Relevance of Yoga (physical exercises) as the physical build-up to the meditation, or to aid in sitting practice
2. Rules and precepts in Buddhism: alcohol, vegetarian, and how important they are, how much should one follow them for the sake of rules or from deeper practical reasons, Buddha was a pragmatic persons, accept and acknowledge the offer of the gift but not necessarily the object that comes with it (if a friend offers to buy you an alcoholic drink, for example) so dont offend them by blunt refusal (or that i am buddhist so i dont drink), be compassionate but offence is also a 2-way thing. also can make some reason to avoid, but is that lying?
3. Why follow Buddhism: personal reasons or background, or because of deep conviction with the philosophy and practice? Buddha wont save us, only we can save ourselves, Buddha can only teach us how.
4. Oxana's 3 poems by the 19th century Russian poet who died young but wrote very prolificly
a) Suffering: the world is full of sadness and youth lasts only a fleeting moment, whats there to be attached to?
b) Cup of life: life is but an illusion, like the imaginary wine it doesnt really exist but we feel it does
c) Fellow Prisoners: we do not understand that beneath our sheels, we are all the same, like fellow prisoners who will never really see each other because they are separated by the wall of their own little jail.
5. Just a tiny mention of the heart sutra and concept of emptiness, we havent really attained anything by being vegetarian or doing good deeds
20 August
Summary 1 of discussion
Date: 20th August 2006 Attendees: Irene, Mo, Raymond, Kai, Joy, Adam, Connie, Chandra, Diane and Cathleen. Activities: 0.5 hr meditation, 2 hour discussion 0.5 lunch
Topic Discussion 1. Schedule of future Sunday discussions It is optional to attend parts of the scheduled discussion. o It is suggested that we will meet in different temples each Sunday, for example at the Buddhist Centre in town…and after visiting temples in Manchester, we can consider visiting other temples nationally.
o It was also suggested that we can all share a bit of our talents, each week by someone different.
Basic Plan: 12 -12:30 Meditation 12:30- 1:00 Sutra reading 1:00- 1:30/2:00 Discussion Lunch
Plan for 27th August (next Sunday): 12:-12:20 Meditation 12:20- 12:40 Tai Chi 12:40- 1:15/1:30 Discussion
There will be a hotpot at 1pm onwards (organised by the temple). 2. Presented by Diane, the topic on Buddhism and Human Rights
Definition of Human Rights: The concept of human beings having universal rights in relation to the person's state. Example: Short Summary: Buddhism encompasses and achieves more than Human Rights. 2 Articles written by Academics: www.buddhistinformation.com/are_there_human_rights_in_buddhi.htm (II) A Buddhist Response to the Nature of Human Rights. By Kenneth Inada (published in Asian Perspectives on Human Rights, 1990)
o It is suggested articles and investigations written by those who actually practice Buddhism could perhaps reflect a more relevant view. It has been questioned: Do Buddhists deal with Human rights? How do Buddhists protect a person to not be killed?
It was suggested to reinforce a right of yours produce almost a sense of aggressiveness to assert your rights, giving us the feeling that there is someone going against it. To reinforce strongly on your human rights does not necessarily shown compassion. o It is suggested that the Human Rights law is developed with good intentions, with the assumption that they are fundamental- yet it can be argued that these laws are generated for Human Rights are not as fundamental as they assert to be and that it does not necessarily mean that it can change people to a better person or actually will protect anyone….which is one of the underlying reasons for having these rights. To prevent hard or injustice.
To further this, it is argued that Buddhism goes beyond the 'restriction' of Human Rights.
In the sense that it looks at a bigger picture when teaching the precepts and that it includes all ethics. This is because, what Buddha teaches, are something that is in nature, that exists and is the truth whether we believe in it or not. It is argued that the way Buddha teaches is very different from e.g. the commandments in Christianity. One of the differences lies in the way teachings are communicated. That is, commandments have more of a commanding or a demanding attitude "You MUST not Kill" or Thou shalt not kill". When we compare this to Buddha's speeches: "If you want to live a good life, this is how it is done." Or "If you steal, this will happen..".
In other words, Buddhism incorporates a lot of justification and reasoning on why certain behaviours and thoughts should be practiced. Pointing out the cause and effect, unlike commandments. It is like Buddhism "I don't want to kill, I want to take responsibility in this and that" vs. Human Rights "It is my right that you investigate my attack by the police or state."
o This reflects two perspectives: Looking from inwards and changing yourself "I don't' want to do this, I should not do this" vs. Others need to recognise my rights, recognise that I should be respected "It is my right".
It was also suggested that commandments strongly imposes a feeling on guilt for those who don't follow them as one of the motivational reasons to follow. However, Buddha's teachings do not motivate one to follow the right path through guilt or punishment, but through one's own experience and understanding. Through demonstrating the cause and effect of things. Precepts could be in other words be understood as 'training guidelines'…that it all comes down to personal decision and choices and that regardless if we believe we are responsible for it or not, we will all experience the consequences and will have to deal with it one way or another…because that is how nature is- complex cause and effects. It could also be suggested that the commandments seem to give people the feeling of obligation- I am obligated to follow these. Whereas, Buddhism, does not say you are obliged to anything, whether you are feel that you are obliged or not, cause and effect continues to exist. So therefore, it is a matter of your choice to choose the right path and not just feel obliged- suggesting lack of will or choice or a slight degree of acceptance.
It is also suggested that "My Right" imposes a sense of control- not in yourself, but to control others in respect for yourself. However, in Buddhism, it is not about the control or change of others, but yourself.
Rights vs. Respect/ Nature vs Nurture Furthermore, it was suggested that there are two types of 'laws': Nature Vs. Nurture.
Nature: Buddhist teaching, truth that exists regardless and Nurture: humans conscious development of rules.
Nature: Buddhism to protect self and others from the right mind, speech behaviour of self vs. Nurture: Human rights are invented to protect self and others. The idea of rules was also further debated that…the concept of 'rule' is seen more visible to those who have a tendency to 'break' them. That is, for someone who doesn't smoke, they don't need to have a 'rule' to remind them to not to smoke. To them, it is not a rigorous rule, whereas those who have a habit to smoke, then for them- not to smoke is a more serious rule for them.
Chandra also suggested that Buddha's way of teaching often generates one's imagination and creativity, story telling in inspiring reasons for behaving so and understanding the precepts. He also suggested that learning from observation is also good. It was also discussed that it would be useful to have different people show you different 'paths', 'knowledge', 'directions', that can extend your current position, so that it would provide you more opportunities to look at and to choose what is best for you. There was also another topic of "what is there is not there is actually there"
2. Education of knowledge, physics, music and morality Short Summary: Morality is very important in the path of enlightenment and that to gain a perspective is important when making decisions. To do good, is also not something that can easily be done or understood. It is argued that because morality is the spine of human, it is very important to learn and practice a moral life. It was also further suggested that this was one of the reasons why early wise men/women, saints, masters in China have tried to implement in their system that everyone should received education not only in science, art and other subjects, but most importantly to learn about morality first.
Some of argued that it is also important to consider the risk of teaching incorrect 'morals'. This lead to a debate that rose when it was suggested that there was a perfect system in the early centuries in China by Confucius and many wise men.
However, to further this, one have raised that if there was such a good and 'perfect' system implemented on a society, why has the current society not continued with it- in the sense that the majority of the people in the current society- china does not seem to reflect they system at all – e.g. to respect living beings, and having death penalty at the same time. This is a good question where we can ask ourselves, why do we keep seeing bad things happen when it is so obvious if we had thought in a way or behave in another way, the consequences would be better?
One could suggest that it is easier- speaking in general terms (not high spiritual teachers), that it is easier to follow something that is not good for you, than to follow something that is good for you.- in that sense I mean this: There is a quote "It takes 3 days to learn to break someone's trust, and 3 years to build up trust."-please do not take it literally- but if you get the sense….its similar to the quote "Rome wasn't built in a day" These reflect that something that is good, worthwhile etc…is not something that cannot be developed/learnt or understood overnight. Just as monks train for many years.
As one has also suggested the importance of leadership in regards to implementing systems to a country. That following from the logic of parents and their children- that uneducated mind of parents, develop their children through methods that would be used for those who are uneducated because they have not got the mind to perceive in alternative way.
For example, they may tend find themselves to always exercise force on others and their children in order to continue with their wants and their perception of culture…and because this has been experienced by the children who see some success in gaining power and getting their wants and desires, they may carry on with the tradition, leading to the loss of a good system that has been developed many years ago. This sort of relates to Mo's story about the three monkeys in a cell (that was discussed the week before). This also implies that when a society does not have a good leader, despite having a good system, books of natural laws and morals in front of them- the society will not improve. Well, it's a circular argument, because it does take 'good' followers' and 'good' leader to come together and apply 'good' systems. But when there is a bad leader in a society, it will be more difficult to implement 'good and perfect' systems. And this would be one of the many reasons why good systems that have been implemented have experienced changes over the years- where some are forgotten and ignored.
Therefore it seems to imply the 'good' systems can be lost. However, if we reflect this on Buddhism, it has existed for many years and there are still situations where many do not accept Buddhism. As one has commented, because what Buddha teaches is something of nature and is the truth, it is not subject to people or time and whether societies/leaders decide to implement or not implement Buddhism in their system of live etc, it is still there…and because of its nature, despite many people with different believes etc, it continues to exist and develop. 3. Does Buddhism make you a better person? A better Christian? A better Muslim? There was a consensus that Buddhism can assist one to be a better person whatever they believe in. As the Dalai Lama did say, religion is like medicine…different people have different illnesses and use different cures.
(I) Are there Human Rights in Buddhism? By Damien Keow
Summary 2 of discussion
Human rights:
At the end of World War 2, western countries were horrified by the loss of life caused mainly due to the activities of Nazi Germany. Before this time, there was no concept of human rights as such, and it was believed that democracy would solve all problems: what the majority of people want must be the right thing to do. However, in Nazi germany a lot of the common people participated (or were forced to participate or cooperate) in the mass killings and aggression, and Hitler was also elected by the majority in a democracy before he became dictator. So it was felt that democracy alone isnt correct, so something more wider must be invented. Thats how the concept of human rights (just like geneva conventions on treatment of prisoners) came into being, an artificial concept meant to be a basic right of all humans such that no countries could violate it. It is to be noted that human rights are against a state, not against individuals. For example, if someone kills me, that is not violating my human rights as such although maybe my relatives can sue them, but once the police (who is a representative of the state) get involved and refuse to investigate, that will be violating my human rights because then the state is condoning the crime of killing and taking away my right not to get killed.
Chandra's poems:
About Gandhi: Chandra himself wrote a poem eulogising his ideal gandhi for his non violent approach to solving world problems, highlighting Gandhi-ji's (the last -ji is a honorific title in India) endless search for truth throughout his life (you can read in his autobiography (you can read online here
http://www.mahatma.org.in/ ), which earned him the title of Mahatma - great soul. The poem also highlighted the fact that gandhiji considered all religions to have some truth in them, he learnt ideals from buddhism, jainism, hinduism, christianity, islam, taoism etc. (personally I think thats slightly exaggerated, still Gandhiji was truly a very decent person no doubt)
A speech by Gandhiji to some Indian Christians, exhorting them to rise on their own and shine and be self dependent and fight against injustice but in non violent way, and follow the ideal of jesus (think I have made some things up here).
A poem about the feet: when we are children we are barefooted and so the feet move about freely and also get hurt sometimes by thorns etc but learn from them (just like our carefree minds as children), then we grow up and put on shoes, covering the feet, with time the feet harden and they grow long nails and calluses, and cut off from the outside world because of the shoes (just like when we grow up in the complex world, we lose our innocence and grow close minded and get in a shell). Finally when we die the feet die too and finally our body decays and a new apple tree grows from the decayed body, symbolising how old life gives way to the new and the whole cycle starts again.
But I felt the most important discussion was on Chinese (by "chinese" i mean only "Mainland china") history of human rights. I am not sure how it began, Adam said something that before 1911 revolution there was Confucianism and society was all well and happy, in the west this artificial and imperfect human rights need to be invented but they dont work like we see in Iraq, but if we follow the Chinese model where morality is so well integrated into the culture and education of the children by elders in society ensures that wisdom prevails and such massacres as in Nazi germany or in modern communist china (cultural revolution) are unnecessary. Then Diane took exception and asked why if the system before 1911 was so perfect, did it ever come to this communism etc. Adam said its because China never invaded other countries but 8 western countries, not to mention Japan, took the piece of cake from china (following the unequal treaties) so it was a period of so much unstability. Mo said that this is why the communist party was necessary, because unless there is first stability how can there be morality? Raymond said its like children who are taught to behave by parents, in one generation if the parents cannot teach then the children get spoilt (meaning that if government and society is not strong then people become devoid of morals), but with time things are improving in china (although Diane said this also proves that the Confucian system is imperfect otherwise why will they have this spoilt children). Zhu, who was the only guy actually from mainland China, pointed out that its no use blaming Mao for all human rights violations in cultural revolution, because in china everyone wants to become Mao and lead the country (maybe because they feel they have real duty towards their country or maybe because they are too ambitious) unlike in UK where nobody wants to be Tony Blair. anyway, Mo pointed out that the romanticisation of the golden confucian times before 1911 is only a romanticisation or idealisation (like all of history we read), its not really true. anyway we all agreed that if buddhism becomes the guiding principle (because its principles of no killing and compassion and training yourself are so much more than just human rights) in chinese society (maybe mixed with confucianism) and in rest of th world then many problems of human rights would be over and world would become happier.
27 August
Summary of discussion
Participants: Irene, Cathleen, Joy, Raymond, Adam (Connie was busy most of the time), Dennis, Santa, Jason, Simon, Dave, Victor??/ Mr Kwan
Meditation Half Hour: 12 till 12:30
Yang Style Tai Chi (led by Sister <forgot name again>) : 12:30 till 1
Sister showed us the 8 basic positions in Yang Style taichi, each posture or position or form also consisted of a number of moves. Unfortunately I remember very less of the eight, but I picked up some tips perhaps:
The first one: raising both hands slowly to shoulder height and lowering them again and again in a slow continuous movement (no jerks), while breathing slowly all the time. Repeating this pose is good for the balancing of Chi in the body. This one is related to Qigong
The second one: again memory fails my aging self. All I can remember is that it involved something related to twisting the back in both directions (or was it one of the later positions?).
Similarly third, fourth etc till the eighth posture to complete the form. Some of the postures are symmetrical, for example the last posture is very similar to the first posture. Its best to practice regularly or you will forget. In China hundreds of people practice Tai Chi in parks in the morning, in order to keep fit and healthy.
By the way each of these positions has a Chinese name which usually stands for an animal, such as rooster pose etc.
Each of the positions requires careful coordination of arms and legs, neck and waist and shoulders, and breathing, at best its like a slow graceful dance. There are a lot of fine points in this, I heard that if done ideally each of these postures requires only minimal effort at a certain point (so if you are needing to use a lot of effort it might not be correct way). Another exercise is to keep a posture for an extended length of time, before it starts getting painful of course. Also one has to follow the moving palm with the eyes (in one of the postures), move only the waist but not the head (in another posture) and the rest of the body will move automatically with no extra effort than what was needed to move the waist, etc. By the way each of the postures has also an application, either in fighting (a specific pose in a duel combat) or in defending or in strengthening the balance of energy in the body. Specific postures are good for specific ailments, such as posture 2 is good for exercising the back and doing it regularly will reduce back pain etc etc.
Discussion of Prajna (Wisdom) Paramita (perfection) Hridaya (Heart) sutra
The perfection of Wisdom Heart sutra or Bōrěbōluómìduō Xīnjīng
History: This sutra is a member of a certain class of sutras in Mahayana Buddhism called the perfection of wisdom sutras. There is a sutra called perfection of wisdom in 100,000 lines, which was condensed to another sutra called perfection of wisdom in 8000 lines, and the heart sutra is the most condensed version, basically in 1 line : the last line (gate gate paragate parasamgate bodhi swaha), but thankfully there is some explanation before it. The original sutra was in Sanskrit, but was translated to Chinese and Tibetan, along with many other languages. The Chinese version is older than the Tibetan one, but the Tibetan one may be a more accurate translation from the Sanskrit, anyway thankfully even these two major versions don’t differ much.
Warning: Because the sutra is so short and cryptic, its difficult to understand exactly what it means. Besides, different teachers have different interpretations of the sutra, so its easy to be confused. Its perhaps best to get guidance of a teacher. Also its best to go through it systematically paragraph by paragraph line by line, not just a summary. So next week we will start doing it systematically.
Summary 1:
The Buddha said in the heart sutra: “form is emptiness, emptiness is form”: now what does this really mean? My understanding is as follows: consider the computer screen or monitor in front of you. We call it a computer screen and normally assume that it “exists”. However, consider this: the screen is the product of so many causes and conditions coming together in one place at precisely the same time, its made of plastic which was probably manufactured at some factory far away using raw materials and workers, and then was assembled at another factory, then delivered to my home where it stands in front of me. Now, would this screen even exist for me if any of these things didn’t happen, or if I didn’t have the eyes to see it, the power of vision and the mind to perceive it, could I see it if I were unconscious or brain dead? This is just to illustrate how every single thing in this world, including myself and all of you, are the product of so many causes and conditions, such that they have no independent existence separate from those causes and conditions. I would like to think that I have inherent existence separate from everything else and am going to live for ever, but nobody and nothing else in the world seems to be such. In this sense I understand the phrase “form is emptiness”: form can be not only what I see but also what I hear, taste, think etc. And all form is “empty” in the sense that they don’t exist inherently. However its stupid to say everything is empty, because I still see the monitor in front of me, it seems very real to me right now. Therefore the second phrase that the Buddha said “emptiness is form”, which means that this emptiness of all things is also manifesting as form, as the world around us, its not just void and totally empty.
The same can be said not only for all forms in this world, but also for our mind: our feelings, perceptions, our actions, even the consciousness itself, is also empty of inherent and unchanging and immortal existence separate from the causes and conditions that produced it. For example, my mind and my mood at this moment is because of my memory and my conditioning and my actions before me, its not independent from those things either.
Thus we can understand that all things we perceive or can think of are similarly “empty”. Things are just what they are as a result of their causes and conditions, there is nothing that is produced (for example how can ice be “produced” from water, because ice has no existence apart from the water and the cold etc etc, similarly water itself has no existence apart from conditions like the container, the molecules, the temperature, somebody to perceive it, etc), nothing that is destroyed or changed in any way.
Then the heart sutra goes on to demolish the entire Buddhist fundamentals such as 4 noble truths and 5 aggregates, showing that all of them are also similarly empty of any inherent nature. For example, suffering is also suffering only because of its causes and conditions, because of my mind that labels an unpleasant experience as suffering, the experience itself etc.
The perception of anything (say apple) cannot happen apart from there being a perceiver (me), the thing that is perceived (apple), and the process of perception itself (my seeing the apple). Similarly there can be no perceiver without there being a perception and an object of perception, because by definition a perceiver is one who perceives something. Similarly no object of perception without a perceiver and the process of perception: if I didn’t see the apple its as good as non-existant for me. Similarly for time: there is no future without the past and present, no present without the past and future, no past without the present and future, all three depend on each other. For more beautiful koans like this to puzzle your brain about reality, try reading the famous Buddhist philosopher Nagarjuna’s Mula Madhyamaka Karika. Its available here: http://www.sharpham-trust.org/verses_from_the_centre.htm
Finally, the sutra goes on to say that because the enlightened people like the Buddha have no sense of having attained something (Buddha does not think that I am Buddha or I am enlightened or I am so great, that is precisely why he is called the buddha) because who has attained what? The attainments are also empty in the same way. Therefore the buddhas have nothing blocking their mind: they are not attached to anything at all, they do not think that this is good and this is not good. That is how they have no fear and no distortion or illusion in their thinking like us. Therefore, if we want to become Buddha we should not be attached to anything.
Anyway this is just my short summary and my own interpretation; there are many other interpretations of this sutra.
Someone remarked that the first part of the sutra is quantum physics and 2nd path is theory of relativity (or something like that, don’t remember exactly)
By the way intellectually agreeing with the content of the sutra is not quite the same as actually realising what the sutra is pointing to. Its fine to say “yeah, that makes sense” and then continue on daily activities with the usual attachments. The enlightened beings never behave that way, if an enlightened being comes into a room he or she would perceive everything as being empty but also perceive the form.
Summary 2:
These are some ways we can approach what is meant by “Form is emptiness, emptiness is form”. Actual meaning of emptiness is not easy to explain, so we see some examples.
Does the pen or paper in front of me really exist? What makes the paper the paper? If we break down the paper on my hand into little pieces what are we left with? It will be broken into atoms and finally into subatomic particles and finally into nothingness. Or think about this, when do the molecules forming the paper stop being just molecules and actually become a sheet of paper? The emptiness is actually the same as the form and vice versa. Pen is just a name in English, in Cantonese it will be called something else, in Mandarin something else. So what is really meant by “this is a pen”? By itself it means nothing. I have a certain mind now. My body and blood is changing all the time, a second later I shall a different mind from this moment (and also a different body because some cells have changed or some added biochemical reactions have occurred in my body), so I just cannot grasp or hold this moment’s “me”. So what am I then? This is how we can understand emptiness to some extent.
Summary 3:
This heart sutra is actually a complete summary of the buddha’s teachings, which can be divided into the 4 noble truths, the 5 aggregates and the 12 links in the chain of dependent co-origination.
The basic behind the 12 links is the idea of cause and effect, that whatever we do is going to have consequences which are like seeds that will germinate on having the appropriate causes and conditions, therefore while doing something we have to be mindful of the consequences of our actions and not harm others. We should do what is beneficial to both ourselves as well as others and not do what is harmful to ourselves and others. Its not right to be selfish and only think of myself, because what is only for myself will be harmful for others.
Regarding the 4 noble truths, its to do with suffering, in this world is there anyone who has never experienced a drawback in their entire life, who has never been sick or unsuccessful or never had an accident? The truth of suffering has to be realised by myself, it cannot really be explained by someone else, its so universal. After that comes the question: why am I suffering? Here too I need to ask myself this question and find the answer to what exactly is making me suffer when my bus is late and I need to be for an appointment etc, when something that is not in my hand happens. Thus we can realise that it is my own attachment that is making me suffer. This can lead to the Buddha’s path as the way to end this suffering once and for all.
Also the same event has different effects on different people so ultimately it only depends on how the mind perceives something as suffering or not. Knowing this we can transform all negative conditions into the Dharma path as well, for example if someone is abusing me either I could get angry and lose my mindfulness, or I could take it as an opportunity to practice my patience and compassion towards others, and thus turn the potentially harmful also into the beneficial path.
The 5 aggregates that the Buddha taught that constitute all reality are form (the apple on the table), the feeling or emotion (what is the effect on the mind), the perception (or mind labelling what we see as the apple), the mental factor or volition (my reaction to the apple) and the consciousness on which all aggregates exist (without it I would not be able to see, I would be a brain dead vegetable).
Further comments:
One comment: Three sutras should be studied together because they complement each others’ meaning, and only on studying the three can any one of them be understood properly. They are heart sutra, diamond sutra and the platform sutra of Huineng the 6th patriarch of Chan Buddhism.
Another comment: An interesting interpretation of the sutra is as follows: it is actually saying to be mindful of the 5 aggregates of form, feeling, perception, sensation and consciousness. The “no form no feeling” etc is actually very similar to saying “in the seeing there is only the seeing” in Bahiya sutta, which is a part of the agama sutras (or Theravada suttas). In this what the Buddha meant was that if we truly mindfully penetrate to the depths of insight through meditation, we could perceive that the function of seeing etc is just going on without there being somebody who sees or does the perceiving. In that particular sutta, Bahiya, whom the Buddha spoke to, was already at an advanced level and so became immediately enlightened on hearing this one sentence of the Buddha, but this may not be the case for me!
Third comment: Yes its fine to say that there should be no attachment. But in real life it doesn’t quite work that way. For example, if a daughter does well in her exams the father should not just say “fine, you did well, anyway its all emptiness so don’t be attached” but should actually encourage her with kind words. It’s the duty of parents to be compassionate towards raising their children and emotionally sensitive to feelings of others. Every single person must do what their duty in society is, for example if the mother doesn’t take care of her child as her responsibility then human society will collapse. Sometimes it happens in the police like that a parent has 6 crimes to his record and his child has 87 crimes, whom do we blame for this, the child or the parent or society? There is a saying that an enlightened person never does anything that’s harmful to others. On the other hand morality cannot be imposed from outside, it has to become a part of us.
Fourth comment: Does a Bodhisattva suffer from Obsessive compulsive Disorder? The Bodhisattva, or Buddha in training, all the time thinks they must do only one thing, achieve only one goal which is to enlighten beings. Can there be any such thing as a good attachment?
Next week: we again meet in Fo Guan Shan at 12, then we meditate for 20-30 minutes, Taichi next time will be conducted by Simon but will be the week after by the sister who taught us this week. Next week we will do Oxana’s topic on Science and Buddhism and half an hour of systematic heart sutra study.
Simon, who is an acupuncturist-acupressure practitioner (besides lots of other things), will soon be giving a demonstration of acupressure points a few weeks after. He runs the “Sino European Health Clinic”
Photos (thanks to Raymond)
Click on the photo to make larger
3 September
Summary of discussion
Date: 3rd September 2006 Attendees: Irene, Dennis, Santa, Cathleen, Diane, Joy, Chandra, Dave, Stuart, Mo Activities: 0.5 hr meditation, 3 hour + discussion along with snacks (around 12- 4pm) 1. Meditation and Pain Today's discussion started off with Meditation- the purpose, methods and the process of it such as pain, which Dennis has kindly summarized for us.
The discussion was mainly on dealing with physical pain in meditation. The
first question was on how to avoid physical pain or discomfort during
meditation. Suggestions such as to shift the posture, to start with a good
sitting position, or to have enough cushion, were made. I raised the point
that perhaps the right question is not about making physical pain go away,
but rather on how to handle the pain itself.
Four points were noted regarding physical pain in meditation. Firstly, no
one has died from physical pain in meditation. Physical pain arises because
of prolonged inactivity during meditation sitting, so it is natural for it
to appear. Secondly, physical pain will come and go as it likes with no one
controlling and it being uncontrollable. This is simply the manifestation of
the three characteristics of existence: suffering (dukkha), impermanence
(anicca), and non-self (anatta). Physical pain is suffering because the mind
has aversion to it. It is impermanent because it will come and go and come
and go etc. It is non-self because no one controls when it will come and no
one controls when it will go. We cannot even will it to go away. When it is
the time for it to come, it will come, and when it is the time for it to go,
it will go.
Thirdly, physical pain naturally becomes more prominent during meditation
because of the built-up of concentration. A small physical sensation may
actually be bloated up like being under a microscope because of sharping of
the mind. On the other hand, when meditation is done in a more relaxed and
calm manner, the mind becomes soft and may embrace pain better without
strong resistance. Finally, it might be useful to know how to deal with the
sensation of pain differently based on the method of meditation. If the
meditation is a samatha meditation with the object of producing one-pointed
concentration, such as metta (loving-kindness) and anapanasati (breathe
meditation), it might be more useful not to pay too much attention on the
physical pain when it arises because it is a distraction from the main
object of meditation. On the other hand, if the meditation method is
mindfulness (vipassana), physical pain can be and is a good object of
observation and should be observed accordingly, although a small caveat has
to be made that observing pain can be a very energy-draining process and
much skill has to be acquired.
A small diversion during the discussion was made on the nature of nimitta,
but it is really too difficult to produce a correct and sensible summary
here.
2. Would smacking, slapping be the ideal solution for child discipline as a Buddhist practice? Can we imagine the Buddha using such solution? (summary by Cathleen)
Reasons for smacking as a solution:
o Cultural background, values and protocol
o The conditions- parents how they are educated, raised and shaped into thinking that if they were taught in this way- such that if their parents disliked their behaviour, they respond by smacking, then it would be natural for them to do the same to others when they dislike others' behaviour.
o Fear disciplines children who do not actively become aware of their mistakes.
o A method of controlling children
Cons:
o There have been statistical cross-cultural studies with findings that indicate a tendency to have higher percentage of income, good health, good grades and many more for those who have been smacked less in comparison to those who have been smacked more in their childhood. It was also found that verbal abuse was used more often for those who carry out smacking than those who do not.
o There are alternative ways of disciplining children which are found to be more effective and have fewer side effects. This however, requires one to have more patience, compassion and possibly creativity.
o To smack often portrays the 'easy' route in 'controlling' a child. However, one may not really want to control a child, but to guide a child's development to be more positive and beneficial- and for a child to appreciate, would take a lot of love, trust and understanding.
- Possible to raise children without smacking (Diane and many more)
Alternative methods of smacking:
o Methods of Positive reinforcement- (I should have added this in during the discussion that this was pretty much what Skinner behaviorism and cognitive psychology 'teaches' as well).
o This is when you reinforce positive behaviour with a reward such as praising, no matter how big or small the positive behaviour is. Whereas negative behaviour is being ignored rather than punished by smacking- which often just arises anger and resentment rather than the development of trust and understanding.
o Practical cases of benefits- reporting to parents on taboo incidents or their negative behaviour such as marijuana, alcohol experience (a long interesting discussion was carried out on how we out body is not made to accept alcohol- it is something we learn to take in, that we become the 'servant' rather than the 'master' of 'ourselves'). When children are comfortable in sharing their experiences even if it involve them in being 'naughty', one could see this as a better 'control' or 'discipline' their children as they are more aware of what is their child is like and can deal and handle positively accordingly.
Tip for the day by Diane: When arguing, try to argue with the person by looking at their eyes, facing them and even touching (not feeling) them- you may find yourself to throw less aggressive verbal comments and possibly make more constructive statements, helping the communication and problem solving process. If you notice, we may have more of a tendency to make unkind verbal abuse when we do not look at the person face to face.
3. The relation between Hinduism and Buddhism (by Joy)
Although most if not all history is written by biased victors and the observer and reporter are also biased and there is only so little information we can gather on what happened long ago, I have been interested in reasons behind the decline of Buddhism in India (and its subsequent exile into the fringes of India) for many centuries until a recent revival. This is a most sensitive topic and has potential for upsetting basically everyone, so please do not mind my attempt to make sense of history and the complex relationship between these two religions, which of course can be completely wrong or misguided.
In India in the first millenium after Buddha the traditions of mainstream Brahmanical Hinduism and Buddhism (along with other competing philosophies such as Jainism, Samkhya and the Ajivikas) influenced and learnt from each other in an environment of polemical debates and competition for survival, as was common at that time. The fortunes of these competing ideologies, or if you prefer to call them religions, ebbed and flowed with their royal patrons, in the Buddhist case being patrons: Emperors Ashoka, Kanishka and Harshvardhana and royal persecutors such as Shashanka in Bengal or Pushyamitra Sunga in South India. The only way I can make sense of history is by treating original Buddhism (similar to today's Theravada) as a reaction to Brahmanical orthodoxy, Mahayana Buddhism (in which mind only and emptiness school were reactions of each other) as a reaction to Theravada (partly based on Hindu and Greek influences and political or monks' lifestyle factors), Sankara's monistic Vedanta as the Hindu reaction to Buddhism (itself heavily influenced by Buddhist ideas on illusion or Maya, and that the Hindu concept of Brahman has many similarities with the Buddhist concept of Dharmakaya) which then largely supplanted Buddhism to an extent, Vajrayana Tantrik Buddhism that has morphed into Tibetan Buddhism (along with Tantrik Hinduism and Jainism) as a later development and reaction to all earlier forms of religion. All these currents influenced each other and were themselves changed in the process, so its probably not accurate to put the blame of decline on anything or anyone. The decline of Buddhism could be attributed to these factors, along with the overdependence of Buddhism on monkhood and mega-universities like Nalanda which were then destroyed by Islamic invaders from the west, large scale absorption by Hinduism because of Sankara and later Vaishnava propaganda of Buddha being an avatar of Hindu God Vishnu, excommunication of Buddhists who did not believe in caste system from society and their subsequent conversion into Islam or Hindu Vaishnavism mainly in Bengal (both of which downplayed or did not have a caste system) or untouchables on the fringes of society (theory of Ambedkar). Anyway change in religion and society is inevitable with the passage of time, and this pattern can be found also in the long histories of many countries including China.
Conclusion:
It was concluded that we will meet again on Sunday from 12pm to approximately 3:30pm. This will include a meditation session in the shrine room from 12-12:30pm, then, followed by Tai Chi, a discussion on Science and Buddhism lead by Oxana, 10 virtues or Paramitas like Generosity led by Santa and discussion on the heart sutra and other sutras based on commentary in books by Ven Master HsingYun or others. It was also decided that when possible, we can invite Venerable Miaodi to give us some guidance during the sutra discussion.
10 September
Summary of discussion
First we had a stint of meditation from 12 to 12:30, then we had a round of introductions, with everyone telling a little about themselves, how many years they have been practicing Buddhism etc. It was really inspiring to see how everyone are from so many different backgrounds yet they all see something of use in Buddhism and meditation. Irene then had some ideas on how we can do sutra study based on what she asked reverend masters, she said that we can do in 3 steps: read the sutra itself, then see how the dharma applies in our own lives, and finally how it can help to make the world a better place for everyone, including solving current problems like ushering peace and improving the environment.
Oxana then started with three articles from New Scientist magazine. The first one was about a modification to String theory, which said something about all matter in this universe (including the subatomic particles like electrons) is formed of coagulations of energy (in the space time continuum) coming together to form matter. Its a bit like the concept of craving in buddhism that the whole world is formed by craving or attachment or wanting to become.
Heres what Oxana wrote about this:
"I read the whole article and I think that this latest theory is very close to what the Heart Sutra describes as 'emptiness if form, and form is emptiness'. Also, it is similar to what tibetan Buddhism says about everything being mind."
You can read the article here: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19125645.800.html
Heres an extract:
- 12 August 2006
- Davide Castelvecchi Valerie Jamieson
- Magazine issue 2564
Physical particles may seem very different from the space-time they inhabit, but what if the two are one and the same thing? New Scientist investigates
The second article was a book review by Simon Blackburn, which spoke of some links between traditional western philosophy and Buddhist philosophy, and how the concept of absense of self in Buddhism has reverbations with modern philosophic thought.
Heres the review: http://www.newscientist.com/channel/opinion/mg19125641.700
Heres an extract:
- 12 August 2006
- Simon Blackburn
- Magazine issue 2564
Simon Blackburn reviews a book which reveals the changing ways we have viewed the self through the ages
The third article was about addiction to drugs, something (I may have forgotten some parts of it) about how addiction self-perpetuates or happens in an ever increasing cycle with some parts of our brain becoming changed and then our needing to have more quantity to drugs to experience the same high. same goes for all kinds of addictions. Perhaps knowing this, we can learn to get rid of harmful addictions by getting rid of craving. Also, like the dalai lama has taught and scientists have researched on, cultivating Buddhist practices such as meditation on compassion actually changes some parts of the brain to make it more likely to become happy and eliminating harmful emotions such as anger. this wasnt discussed but maybe you could see this related website: http://www.mindandlife.org/
After that we had a general discussion on issues relating to these articles. I seem to have forgotten most of what we discussed, Stewart mentioned something about people in the hospital psychiatrists using these principles to stop addiction or prevent people from harming themselves due to deep depression or suicidal tendencies, and the difference between depression and suffering. Raymond said something about (have forgotten it I think) how he was suffering and his understanding of it, and the importance of compassion in dealing with it. joy said something about how we create our own suffering by wanting to be free of suffering and thus denying the present here and now by going for a goal in the future. Oxana said something about pain and how she felt the reality of Dukkha or unsatisfactoriness or suffering in everything in the world, and how Buddhism can help in handling suffering.
After that we had a delicious lunch thanks to the great chocolate and coffee cake kindly prepared by cathleen and her friend to celebrate Dave's birthday last week, various Cheese and fresh melons brought by Chandra (who unfortunately could not find a mixer to prepare a fruit juice), some really nice food including noodles brought by Irene and also kindly given by Connie, another cake and maybe some more food i forgot. After that we had a bit of practice of Yang style Taichi, short form, taught kindly by the sister who taught us some weeks ago. Hope all fo you can practice at least the first few steps of it. Chandra did a bit of Bhagra dance from Punjab in India.
Finally the venerable Miaodi came and told a short Dharma story about a king organising horse race and the winner being the horse which finished last. nobody among the horse riders was moving because they wanted to win by finishing last, then the king's son whispered to them all saying why dont you get on someone else's horse and make sure that horse finishes earlier than yours, then everyone started to run after changing horses and finally the race could finish. The moral was that sometimes cooperation is necessary to accomplish something rather than thinking selfishly about ourselves as we usually do. chandra mentioned a similar story about sweets and how a miserly host asked his guests to eat as much as they like without mobing their elbows, and the way the guests outwitted the miser host and had a great meal was by feeding each other. Stewart mentioned in this respect something about the spirit of sharing among Chinese in restaurants, the idea that if i like the taste of some food i must put it in someone else's plate and must have it myself last. then we had a discussion about sutra study, Dennis mentioned why dont we have a fixed syllabus and joy said about the problem that its big responsibility on some people to prepare everything and the people in this group change all the time, Stewart said that he was happy with the present informal friendly discussion nature of the group. dennis and santa said they wanted to learn more about humanistic Buddhism as taught in fo guan shan, and if the venerable could teach a portion of sutras everyday such as heart sutra. santa had prepared something about the perfections or parimis, and gave a handout of the 10 perfections and will be leading a discussion on Dana or generosity prefection next time.