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Topic 1: I'm a huge well car fan my self, but unfortunately, a CN prototype is of little use to me. If TTX or CP operated this style car, I may be interested.

Etched brass is deffinately the way to go. It will add the weight needed to run empty cars reliably. I have a brass container only spine car I built from the Andersley brass kit. It looks and runs great, with or without containers.

My biggest concern with this project would be the price. I've heard lots of people whine about the cost of Athearn's Maxi-I cars, even though they are well worth the price. And when you think about it, you are getting 5 cars, so the per-car price is about the same as any other RTR out there. Convincing people that a multi-unit well car is worth over $100 is the hardest part.

Topic 2: This sounds great. It will make my grab iron drilling template from BLMA worthless though. Having said that, a drilling template would be a natural compilment to this product.

Having the NBW's included in the set would be nice as well. I would recommend providing extra NBW's in the set if possible. Small parts like that can go flying and are very hard to find. Being able to hide an oversized hole will be nice too. I gave up on #80 drill bits, as I was going broke replacing them! I use #78 for grabs now and try to hide the hole with paint and weathering.

And with the accuracy of the rest of your product line, accurate grabs seem like a no-brainer to me. I'd be ordering grabs for sure.

Fred,

One thing that I was thinking of for this project is just make it break even where a group of guys go in on it and the production is just what covers the orders. If the project just buys you the photo-etch, it could be cost effective with just a few guys buying in. The issue of cost will not be known until the parts are drafted and organized into different thickness and whether they need double passes during etching. Some areas could get by with normal photo-etching and some would need the "stage etch" such as plates with rivet detail and bends.

CJH

Christopher, I think you should concentrate on the larger components of this project. What's the old saying? "Don't sweat the petty stuff"? Another major issue is cost. From what I can see to build a locomotive using your system will cost hundreds of dollars not including time spent building the unit. I can't afford that.

Given the retail cost and the fact that the new Railflyer grabs would be only 1 scale inch narrower than the .008" grabs already available from BLMA, I would say this is not a project that should be high-priority. Also, given the fact that those of us who are alraedy building the Railflyer kits are (or soon will be) fairly accomplished modelers, there is no reason that we couldn't take .008 brass wire from Detail Associates, etc., and bend the grabs ourselves if no other alernative exists.

Chris, would the over-budget on tooling and general slow-growth of new products be offset by higher sales? If so, have you considered funneling more resources into general product advertising? Other than my initial exposure to your company about a year ago on Andy's D-list, the only other hint of Railflyer's existance I've seen since then (besides internet modeling groups) has been the occasional mention of one or two of your parts in a Walthers monthly sales catalog. I think you would do well to introduce your locomotive system (with great pictures of the underbody detail including traction motor cables) in a mass-market pub like MR. Sure, most of those readers aren't the ones who will run out and buy your systems right away, but how did any of the rest of us get as crazy as we are today with the realism of scale modeling? We saw photos of what could and was being done by more accomplished modelers and it made us want to strive for the same results. I am constantly telling very accomplished modelers of your parts and building system and they had not yet heard of your company and what it offers.

Unfortunately, everything takes time (and money...) but if the bulk of model railroaders out there knew of your company and the great results that can be obtained with your parts, you may start to see the orders pick up. My humble opinion, probably worth what it cost you.

Keith-

Kieth,

Thanks for the input. Here is one thing I though of for the grabs, would you guys go this:

A template for bending. Photo-etched NWB detail that accompanies them? This would severly cut costs and allow me to concentrate on bigger fish.

Advertizing is a real issue. An add that might grab attention costs $3000 - $6000 in MR. I have been sending in product announcements which get published for free and this has grabbed some of you. I am going to be doing more marketing this summer and this web-site is a part of that. I have also floated my product around some of the RPM shows with a bit of success as well. The best thing that would help is all of you to show this product to your local club and hobby store. The money spent on a MR ad in my opinion is best spent in new product such as the trucks, drive and hood.

I have a product sample going out to Cody at MR and few more to other publications, the freebie is worth the cost if its plugged.

So that's some idea. Let me know about the "Jig" idea. A $2.00 part could create a lot of grabs.

CJH

I like the idea of photo etched NWB detail, and would go for the bending jig if it cut costs. The jig idea could probably be applied to other types of grabs as well.

Nathan

Topic 1) I'd be interested (assuming these things made it south of the border once in awhile), though I'm not in the market to be building a lot of freight cars at the moment. Photo-Etch would be fine by me, I consider it to be a better material for representing steel anyways.

Topic 2) I'd probably buy scale grabs no matter what the cost, but I wouldn't be terribly excited about shelling out $10 for only 18 of the things. PE NBW sounds excellent though. My vote would be for a bending jig and some lengths of .008" wire, if it cuts the costs considerably I definitely don't mind bending my own grabs.

One thing that would be useful though, would be a drill bit smaller than the #80 that most index's include. #80's make a hole that is considerably larger than .008" and it would be nice to have something more precise.

Chris

Topic 1: I'd say find a freight car that a lot of railroads used that hasn't been made yet, and create that. You'd be more likely to get a return on your investment that way.
Topic 2: The jig idea mentioned by others sounds like a great idea. As well, I think Tichy brought out 17" grabs at one time....or maybe their 18" grabs came up an inch short.

Wondering what Railflyer intends to do about handrail stanchions. Smokey Valley parts are no longer available.

These are on the agenda.

CJH

Comment for Tony S.,

Handgrab bending jigs are available at Bill Bedford models. Go here:

http://www.mousa.uk.com/Cat/OLCat4/jigs_and_tools.html

Check items part # E017 & E019. I have them both and they work very
nicely.

For some reason Tony is not able to post, please let me know when this happens, the site still likely has bugs.

CJH

Topic 1
Although the Trenton Works Well Cars would make an interesting model, the sales potential would be limited as these CN cars are unique to CN and I would suspect that they do not wonder far off CN metals.

I would suggest looking at the Centerbeam family of flatcars as a possible car. Each builder has their own design, yet we only have the two Walthers Thrall cars and a Overland brass model to represent one of the larger groups of cars in today's fleets. Etched brass would be the perfect medium for these majority of the car. Add to this, that these cars go everywhere, I even saw a BC Rail car on the UP in Phoenix !

Topic 2
I have one of the Bill Bedford jigs (E017) , it works well with Phosphor Bronze wire.

Ian

Ian,

The centerbeam car is one that I also have interest in. There a lot of them floating around. The NSC car is most common around these parts.

Thanks for the comments.

CJH

The NSC centerbeam would make an excellent car as many roads have these, including BCOL, BNSF, CN, UP, SRY, NOKL and TTX among many others, certainly one with wide appeal especially as it has a different look to the Thrall car.

Ian

Agree with the NSC centrebeam; lots of those kicking around and is one of the most common modern centrebeams that I see.

CJH: If you are really keen on the CN well cars, I may have some photos, but personally don't have much needs for the cars; I'm modelling a regional/shortline with no Intermodal traffic. (For that matter, the NSC centrebeam isn't much use to me either, since it's too modern, but should have a fair bit of demand from just about any modern modeller).

For the drop grabs, I'd agree with focusing on other projects given the expense.

Guys,

These comments are a bit old. The new wire grabs will be inbound next week, we got enough in last month to kick out about 80 cabs. These were just samples. As you can see our price is below what we originally thought.

I like the centerbeam option too.

CJH

Christopher,

If you're looking for a smaller project, ever think of spark arrestors or 3 pane bay windows? Overland used to make the window but has since sold out of the detail part market.

Chris

Guys,

The grabs are done. We got them sourced and they are more competitive.

Well Car / NSC Centerbeam - We are accepting data and resources for these two projects. If you have anything please send it.

One other car I am looking at is the NBSR Pulp Cars. They are rebuilt box cars for pulp service. You see them a lot in Maine, and New Brunswick, maybe even further south. I also have my sights on a specific tank car you see around here.

I do have anti-climbers and all weather windows in the plans for the new year for photo-etch. So anybody with information on them, please send it along.

CJH

Chris,
If you want to make a variant on the ditchlights you could make some of these.
http://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=243304&nseq=4
I think CSX is starting to use these on the new locomotive repaints.